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That was my moments now with interviews, analysis and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris MANNIX and we are back boxing with Chris Mannox, part of the Volume Sports podcast network. A lot to get into today, A lot going on in the world of boxing. We're gonna talk about the latest developments with Connor Ben. We're going to get into some contract negotiations going on. Errol Spence, Terence Crawford. Is that going to happen? Ryan Garcia, Gravante Davis? Is that gonna happen? We've got a loaded fight weekend. We've got Devin Haney back in Australia, Deontay Wilder in Brooklyn, one of the best women's car maybe the best women's card of all time over in the UK. We're gonna dive into that a little bit later in the show. Caleb Plant, the former and sixty eight pound champion. He is back this weekend as well, and we talked to Caleb about the loss to Cannella Lvarez and how he kind of sees his career moving forward. To help me with all those topics, Keith Idek, senior writer with Boxing Scene dot Com, good friend of the podcast. He is back on the show. Keith, What's up Man? A lot apparently, um and a lot going on outside the ring and inside the ring. Um. I know you're in New York going to the Wilder Hillennious headline show this weekend, so I want to get into that, but I want to go outside the ring to start. Keith and I want to go over to the UK and address the latest developments with the Connor Ben uh situation. Connor Ben, of course, it's been about a week since his scheduled fight against Chris you Bank Jr. Was canceled this response to Ben testing positive for colomaphine, a female fertility drug. Earlier this week, The Daily Mail, which broke the original story, reported that Ben is being in us to get it for potentially failing a test for the same substance. Here is Eddie Hearn speaking on the match Room Boxing YouTube channel about Connor beat. Yeah. Obviously he's got a big fight on his hands. You know, there's a lot of information we know about the testing that will come to light. Everyone's very quick to make their assumptions as always in this situation. We've seen it before, you know, the story stop the fight. The commission had made their decision before any story came out in the media, and we had to go through that process because, as I said, once you find out the information regarding the testing. It was a difficult position because people were comfortable with the scientific facts around that. So we wanted kind of Ben to have his opportunity, as many have before, to be heard that will now happen post fight and obviously the fight not taking place, but let him, let him have that time, let him at that moment he has to go out and obviously it's a very important time for him now because some people have made their mind up as they've done before. Let the facts come out and make your decision. So cute based on what we know right now, how much trouble do you think that Connor Ben is potentially in? You know, Chris, it's hard to say. Really, he's in trouble for sure. I mean, he's obviously tested positive for what is a known masking agent, and I think that's uh, they're getting in some some hot water. But you know, look, everyone has their version of what the truth is, you know. And he's running around telling people now that everyone's gonna owe him an apology, which is probably a reach. But look, I haven't met a pe d abuser yet who has said yeah, I did it, Yep, you got me. I mean, well, maybe uh Mark or wire I guess finally said that, but but most of them don't, and and and virtually every sport, you know, everyone's they have no idea how it turned up in their system, and they have a multitude of excuses, whether it's contaminated beef from Taco truck or uh you know, they put something in their system from g NC that they weren't aware was on the label. You know, there are always excuses. Look, there a lot of money at stake in this sport, Christen, as you and I well know, people are going to take shortcuts, and you know Jarrell Miller being the most disgusting example of it in recent memory, the audacity that he had to do what he did multiple times. Um. So I really wish, as someone whose livelihood is wrapped up in this sport, and I know yours is as well, and you care about the well being of the people who put their lives at risk, I really wish the sport would be better about policing p E d s. And we've made some strides, many many many many, many many many more strides need to be made to clean up this sport. Um. I don't think that it helps when a guy fails a test, and you have promoters, networks, whomever is involved pushing for the event to move forward. When you fail a test, particularly for something that is in this case a no masking agent um, you know the event should be canceled or postponed. You know, they certainly could fight again somewhere on the line as long as they pass all their pe D tests. My primary problem with this, Chris, is that what is the point of doing VATA testing. And I'm not saying VADA is infallible and is the be all and end all, but they are the gold standard in boxing that we have now for peed testing. And this is the second time in barely a year where we've had a fight where a fighter has failed a VADA test. One of the fights went forward, as we well know. Last year Oscar Valdez against Robson can say sal that fight went forward despite val This failing a test and we were damned near close to one of the biggest events in British boxing history moving forward. Last week despite that Connor Bent tested positive for pretty serious pe D. Because Chris you Bank was willing to go along with it, there was a lot of money at stake et cetera. Now, these guys oftentimes have to be saved from themselves, Chris, I mean in a variety of ways, not just as it relates to P E. D S. Fighters have huge hearts and don't always think with their heads and are willing to do a lot of things that are too risky. And in this case, the only positive thing I could say about this is that the British Boxing Board of Control did not allow this event to move forward, because if it did, it would have been an utter disgrace and disrespectful frankly to everyone who laces up gloves for a living. Yeah, um so Sergio Moore and I got into this last week and we kind of covered, you know, what could happen. I think the most interesting recent development, Keith, is that Daily Mail report that says Connor Ben is being investigated for potentially testing positive once before for this Because that would take this to a different level, right, Like, if you test positive for this same substance twice in a couple of years or whatever the timeline, maybe you know, that puts you in kind of a new category of offender. Now we don't know if that's true or not. As you said, kind of been to to social media and said, look, I hope the apology is as strong as the critique or something along those lines. And Eddie Hearn is kind of vaguely promised that, you know, there would be evidence presented on behalf of connor Ben. But it's pretty serious. I mean, like, if connor Ben cannot come up with a reason this drug was in his system, it seems like he's facing a lengthy suspension. I don't know that there's a there's not a letter of the law here, right, there's not like a U test positive for X. You get why in terms of suspension. But it seems to me if the if the uk UM, if the Bridge Board of Control is investigating this now, and they see these VADA results and they see the same things that VADA saw, that there's a pretty good chance they come down pretty hard on connor Ben. And and again if if it turns out to be true that this drug was in his system before, that makes it even worse. I just, you know, I don't know. I don't know how he's going to wriggle out of this because at this point, no one in his camp has even floated a reason this could be in his system. Like nobody, and that that to me is the most you know, damning part of all this. You think that like you think that at least be like after a few weeks have gone by, there'd be some kind of excuse that they'd be ready to to roll out there. At this point, there has been none. And unless we're missing something, I don't know that there is going to be one that validates this substance being a Connorvent system. Yeah, you're right, Chris, But I would just say, you know, in fairness to connor Ben and every fighter who fails a test, I mean, give him his due process. Let's see how it plays out. And if he cannot come up with some reasonable excuse and he is suspended, well then he'll have to pay the the you know, do the time for the crime, so to speak. Um, you know, but he'll fight again, you know, even if he gets a multi year suspension, he will fight again. But you know, of course, from the outside looking in, without knowing exactly what connor Ben is putting into a system, and why, uh, you know, it looks pretty bad when you've agreed to move up ten pounds, going about putting on weight in a in a way that will make you hold up against a bigger, stronger fighter who has fought as high as one hundred and sixty eight pounds and not only fought at a hundred and sixty eight pounds, was pretty successful and had knocked guys out at that high weight. Now you know, Christie Bank was coming down to what would have been the lowest weight of his career at one um. So you know, you don't know how that was going to affect him either, but you know he's cut. When you wonder why Connor Ben thought it was a good idea to move up ten pounds and technically too weight classes to go fight Christie Bank Jr. Well maybe he had enhanced confidence because he was using a p D. Now again, he deserves his day in court, but it certainly looks bad from the outside looking in that he goes and takes this huge challenge and then get you know, the test positive of and then there's the you know, like you said the Daily Mail story that said he has tested positive previously. I think there was a point where maybe he was removed from the WBC rankings necessarily he was not he wasn't enrolled in it originally or he whatever the cases, he was temporarily removed from the rankings because he wasn't being tested by Vada. And again, you know, whatever people think Nevada or Water or you know, all of these testing organizations, and in our sport, Vada is the standard. And again, I just don't understand why you're going to pay what is a substantial amount of money to make sure that these guys are clean and then when they're dirty, try to move forward with the fight anyway. I mean like it's insulting to people, and and mostly to fighters who are clean, because there are plenty of clean fighters out there. While I think there were probably more guys using p e d S than will ever know, I think the vast majority of the fighters are clean. And you know, when you put I mean again, you know we've had this conversation before, Chris, and as of many others. This is not hitting a baseball. Further, this is not you know, enhancing your ability to block. You know football is more dangerous, of course, but you know, enhancing your ability to block or to be stronger on the football, I mean you could kill somebody. So when you take these types of shortcuts and and take someone's life in your quite literally in your own hands. I mean, the penalties couldn't be harsh enough for me. I agree, and that's why I'm very interested to see what Connor Ben and his team come up with over the next few weeks, because if it's not credible, if it's not believable, um, the British Boxing Board of Control other organizations should come down pretty hard on him because it is incredibly dangerous to take a banned substance to get into the ring, and I hope that gets recognized as a result. All right, let's look at a couple of more compelling negotiations. We are now five weeks away from the once targeted date for the welterweight showdown between Errol Spence and Terence Crawford, and there is still no deal. Floyd may whether he came out recently, and after referencing his relationship with Spence's advisor Al Hamon, Floyd said, as of right now, the Spence Crawford fight is not happening. Steven Espinoza, the president of Showtime Sports, he was asked about the fight last week. Here's what he had to say. You know, these things take the life of their own. Um, you know, the reality is I'm not even sure how the November nineteenth date got out there, and all of a sudden it was written in Stoke. So the reality there's there's been a lot of dates that we've talked about, and November nineteenth is one of them. Um. I'm as anxious as a fan as anybody else to get this done. Um. And I know there's two more anxious people than meet, and that's you know, that's Errol and Terence, you know, and they want to get this pike done as quickly as anyone. But the reality is these pikes take time. I know everyone's impatient. I want everyone needs to let's be done yesterday. But the reality is it's a complex deal. There's a lot to negotiate. UM, I still think it's on track. You know, I've been cautime people all along the way. Keith, you and I spoke on this podcast about a month ago, when we both seemed to believe at that time that this fight would happen on November nineteen. It seems highly unlikely, to say the least, that that's going to happen on November nineteenth. What is going on right now with these negotiations, Well, they're still negotiating. That's that's that's what's happening. Uh. You know they keep assuring people and by day I even mean Errol Spence. Errol Spence has tweeted himself that the fight's happening, don't it's next, don't worry. Um. You know, Terence Crawford hasn't said as much quite as as as Errol Spence. But you know, people internally are saying, everybody calmed down. The fight is going to happen. It's it's taking longer than we thought. There are a lot of things that play here in terms of splits and contract details that we're not going to make everyone privy to. Uh, it is going to come together. Both guys want to fight. Uh. Certainly Terence Crawford would appear to have less um appetizing options, I would say than Errol Spence does. I mean Spence has more options. Of course, nothing is appealing as Terence Crawford, but he does have more options on the PBC side. But I think both guys really want to fight. Um, you know, they're working out these a lot of these details that you know, so you know, Terence Crawford wants full transparency, which why shouldn't he get full transparency. He's taking a gamble here on his on a percentage, so of course he shouldn't, you know, have full transparency in terms of what all the numbers are. Um. I think the fight will eventually come together, and now maybe we don't see it until February, you know. And I don't love Terence Crawford coming into this fight off of what would then be a fourteen month layoff. I don't like it. But you know, he didn't fight for a year from the time he fought kell Brook, which wasn't all that much of a fight, until the time he thought showan porter, and I gotta say he looked pretty damn good. So maybe at this point in his career, he's thirty five years old and he's not one of these guys, you know, Terence Crawford when he's out of training camp. I mean, he's not blowing up and wait or anything. I saw Terence Crawford a few weeks ago at the Shaker Stevenson fight. He looked like he always looks. You know, he doesn't get out of shape. He's not a guy who you know, drinks and parties and those crazy in between fights and all that kind of stuff. He spends a lot of time with his kids and all that kind of stuff in between fights, so he's so he's not abusing his body. And I don't think that he's someone who might pay as much of a price for their being this long of a layoff between the two fights as maybe someone else. But ideally you'd have a little more activity than fifteen months going into a fight that's going to be as difficult as the fight against Erril Spence. So why do you think this has been so complicated? I mean, Steven Espinoza said something, have you met Ter? Have you met Crawford? Well, I mean, look, I'm not gonna fault either, but but he look he's not he go ahead, go ahead with no. No, it's just I just you know, Steven Esponozo seemed to suggest that, like, you know, this November ninete wasn't really the targeted date as much as people said it was. I just agree. I mean that's everything I was told was that was the targeted date for for months now, this has been kind of what they've been looking at. And we have seen Keith so much reporting dating back to like August, like it's right there it's right there. It's right there, and yet here we are in mid October and we're not there, and we still don't really know exactly what's preventing us from getting there. Now. I know you and I talked to a lot of the same people. I'm sure that you know. I hear a lot of it's being put on Terence Crawford, like the the minut shot that Crawford wants transparency on, and that's his choice. He's this is the biggest fight of Terence Crawford's career. He's going to want to make sure that he maximizes his money in a situation like this. What I can't seem to really get an answer to, a really really be sure about, is if these obstacles are unable to be overcome, Like you mentioned spend saying don't worry, it's gonna happen next. You know, other people involved in saying it's gonna happen next. But like, when do we start to worry about it? Like the first date is already blown and we we've got to be kind of if we're not, unless you, I don't know exactly what the biggest obstacle is here. I don't know obviously has something to do with money, but I don't know what the biggest obstacle is in preventing this fight from being finalized, because clearly they've made good progress on it. They just can't get past that final hurdle. You know. I just to to follow up on what I said before. I'm not faulting Terence Crawford for wanting full transparency and squeezing as much money out of this fight as humanly imaginable, because it's the biggest fight of his career. He's thirty five years old, and of course you're gonna you're gonna want things done, you want every I doted and every T cross, particularly because he's coming at it from the perspective of a non PBC fighter moving into the BC universe, and of course he views Al Hayman and and Ryl Spence as aligned against him, So of course he's going to be skeptic. And I'm not saying that Al Hayman is trying to screw him or anything. I'm just saying that, you know, he's rightfully skeptical because he's not their guy. He's not the guy they built from the ground up. He's he was a top rank guy, and I was a free agent as we all know, so so I don't blame him for that. But what I would say as it relates Chris to uh, you know, November nine being the date or February whatever, it really doesn't matter. There's no deadline. I mean, because unless either one of these guys or both of them get fed up with the negotiations and just say I'm going to fight you know, Keith Thurman or I don't know who Terrence Crawford would fight, that would make any sense. That's not on the PBC side. But uh, you know, unless they do that and kind of throw their hands up and discussed this patience is not a the strongest virtue of the boxing Twitter verse for sure, or boxing fans we want everything, or you know, boxing people, you want everything right now in the immediate but it's going to take a little while. And if the fight happens in February, if the fight happens in March, it's going to be a great fight. It's annoying to have, especially from our perspective, because we're you know, whereas most negotiations were given a little more of a window into what's going on, they've been very tight left about this, and the more tightlipped they are usually the more sensitive the negotiations are, but also uh, the more progress they're typically making. Now, this has taken a long time. I'm not disputing that, but it is probably the biggest non heavyweight fight in boxing. Um. You could certainly argue, and I think we've discussed this on the podcast before that from a commercial standpoint, Ryan Garcia and Tank Davis might actually do more pay per view buys. I think that's a fair argument to make. But it's a huge fight, right two undefeated welterweight champions. This has been brewing for three or you know, three years, I guess four years or whatever. It is. Um. Not quite on the Pacao Mayweather level, because nothing will maybe ever be on that level again. But but I just you know, I would preach patients to people. I understand why it gets. You know, you go on our website and every day there's something. You know, something so said blah blah blah, and so and so said this, and you know, and then you get the comment there is and it's a lot of back and forth, and it's all you know, it's a lot of mental gymnastics. Nothing's really happening, you know. But uh so I get that it's tough to wait it out. But but basically that's what's just gonna And the other thing to keep in mind is there are simultaneous negotiations ongoing for the Tank Davis Ryan Garcia fight, and now which one is going to be first and which one is going to be second? And thank Davis has added the ring issues that could alter the date when he fights, and uh, you know, so there's a lot going on here. So because you're not gonna put these two paper few fights three weeks apart, you know, they're two huge fights. You want them to be able to breathe on their own. And you don't want to come at people for whatever the price. The price tag on these fights is not going to be. It's not gonna be seventy bucks, you know. Still, you don't want to come at people too soon in between the fights either. Yeah, you'll be talking close to two for two fights right there. I mean, it's it's gonna be a big number. What you're right up, patients, It does take time to put these fights together, what I wonder. And even though Spence is out there saying don't worry it's gonna be next. I wonder what his threshold is for being Paige. Remember he fought one time, He's gonna fight one time in two This is a guy that wants to be active, wants to stay and stay busy against top guys, and has a marketable option in Keith Thurman out there as a potential opponent. So I guess that's where where I focus most of my attention. Like, when does Spence say, you know what? This is taking too long? Um, I don't know if it's gonna happen in February. Now, let's move on to thermal revisit in the summer of two thou and twenty three or something like that. Now, it doesn't seem like Spence is at that point right now, But I don't know, Key, It seems like I feel like he's gonna get there at some point. If there's not progress made over the next month or so, as we get into November December, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Spence decide to move ahead at least for one fight. Yeah, there has to be a point where you just walk away from it, I guess, But because at this point there's nothing else to button up right. I mean, there's nothing else to take care of it, you know, I've I've heard things um as keep in the weeds as he turned, Crawford wants to make sure that he has control over where the bottled water is coming from and things like that. I don't know that that's true, but those are the kinds of things that are being floated around about every little thing that's being uh, you know, being discussed internally. So if that's if that's the case, I mean that you could go over every single thing humanly imaginable right every scenario, and that will take forever to go through that, you know, So what's your gut feeling then right now? Doesn't happen in November? I think that's the table. And in December. I feel the same way about December. Um, you're getting close to Christmas and all that kind of stuff. So you know, i'd say February, you know, maybe for first Again, I think it does depend on the Garcia thank Davis fight, which is also being negotiated now. And Ryan Garcia's father said yesterday he was at the open workout with Frank Chez yesterday. For this Frank Sanchez is fighting on the Wild Hellaneous undercard, and he told a few guys that the fight is definitely happening. That's what Ryan Garcia's dad said. Now that's only one side of it, of course, But if Tank Davis really wants to fight, and he has made it very clear that he does. Um, If he does want to fight, and there's no reason why it wouldn't happen, it's a huge fight. So um. So if they're working, you know, that plays into the to the Spence Crawford scenario as well, because again, like I said, you want to space the events apart, and then you imagine if you're if you're out Hayman and you're working on two deals that are very complicated with other Prawford doesn't never promoter, but he's working with another promoter, and and and Golden Boy Promotions. There's a lot going on at the same time. So I know, no one's gonna feel any sympathy for out him and trying to negotiate two mega deals that for fights that people really want to see. But that is happening in real time, Yeah, no question about that. So let's talk about Ryan Garcia and Tank Davis, because, as you point out, negotiations are ongoing between the two sides for a fight between two of the most marketable guys in boxing right now. There have been some optimistic social media posts from both Ryan and Tank. As you mentioned, Ryan's dad is out there striking an optimistic tone. Dates of December and January have been floated around. I'll start on this one, Keith. I am getting more and more optimistic about seeing Tank and Ryan in the ring next I am. I'm starting to I talked to a lot of people about this fight pretty often, and it sounds like they're getting really close on the money. It sounds like they're right there on the weight, which will be somewhere between a hundred and thirty five and a hundred and forty pounds. What I don't know is have they resolved the broadcast issue, because that is a huge stumbling block. UM Showtime obviously, the distributor of Tank Davis's pay per views uh to Zone has been you know, backing Ryan Garcia for the last fourth plus years. I don't know if they figured that out, and the people involved, whether it's Ryan's dad or managers or promoters whoever, like I think they've been focused on getting a deal done between the two fighters and maybe hoping that a deal can be struck with the broadcast is whether it is a co pay per view, which I don't think is the likeliest outcome, or I don't know, some kind of shared agreement where Showtime gets US broadcast right to ZWN, which is Global takes global broadcast rights. Maybe there's something on the back end for this ZOWN. I don't know the answer to that question, but I am feeling cautiously optimistic that Ryan Garcian Tank Davids are gonna fight. It may not be December, um January. I think it's possible. I'm feeling boxing does this to me, but I'm feeling pretty good about Ryan and Tank. How are you feeling about where those talks? Yeah, you know, I feel optimistic about it because I think from Javante Davis's perspective, he needs this fight now. I mean, how many guys, look, could they go back and do an Essa Cruise rematch? Yeah? Sure they could. I mean, he's he's done reasonably decent pay per view numbers against people that ordinarily would not fight on paper view because he's that big of a draw and he and he obviously is a draw. At the gate. He is. He is lord big crowds to arenas all over the country. I've been there from the fights, and these are legitimate gate receipts that they're producing here. So he's you know, multimillion dollars gates. So he's a real draw. Um. But I think from Javonte Davis's perspective personally, he's gonna turn twenty eight years old next month, and he is tired of hearing that now saying that he thought no one is a little strong. I mean that's a that's a that's a reach. I mean he you know, he beat posing Drazza, but that was five years five and a half years ago. Draws is you know, turned into a two eight world champion. Um, he saw Cruise is a good fighter. I mean he's not, uh not an elite level fighter. I saw him struggle against Thomas Matisse. I was there. I saw it on show box, you know. But so he's a tough guy. He's a bulldog and he could punch and and he gave Tank a tougher fight than people were expecting. And Javonte Davis had a hand injury going into the fight. All that's true. But if you wants to prove it now, you know as well as I do. If he goes and Knox Ryan Garcia out, everyone's gonna say, oh, well, Ryan Garcia had bought anybody Blue Campbell is not any good and you know he's chins up in the air and he's a you know, he's an Instagram star, he's not a real He's going to deal with that. If he goes in Knox Ran Garcia, you do we come on, we know that, right, that's not gonna be well, he's not going to be fair. But I don't know if it'll be that. I don't know if it be you think it would be that bad? Like, look, Ryan Garcia resume as well Chris I do, come on, plenty plenty of holes in him. But I think the reason I can be somewhat more sympathetic to Ryan Garcia is that he's four years younger and he has spought Luke Campbell, and he just beat a hobby for like he's If he was twenty eight years old with the same type of resume, I'd be just as critical of Ryan as I have been of Tank. I I don't know that I only won't get credit for beating Ryan sure people will, they'll be there'll be a faction of people that's say the things that you're saying. But Ryan would in my mind, instantly become the best opponent that Javonte is beaten. Like, I think he'd immediately rise above uh you know, Benavidez and whoever else is on that resume, Like wouldn't you? Would you or would you? Where would you put Ryan on that list? Uh? Yeah, Look again, there there are holes in his I'm not saying Louke Campbell is not a good fighter. He is. You know, he was a better amateur fighter than he was a professional fighter. But that's the best win on his resume. He he look, he beat what was left of fire for two and let's be honest, right, it's a good win. It's a good win. But Fortuna had been beaten up before. He's an older guy. Jojo Diaz took took the last um And I'm not sure I'm not trying to crap on Ryan RCA here. I mean the kids, he's he's a huge puncher. He clearly has like like Javonte Davis has a huge following away from boxing. You know, people, you know he's a trance and the kind of fighter and all um, and it's a huge fight and and any time we can get it what is considered a huge fight that draws attention outside of our ever shrinking world of boxing. It's great for the sport and that fight will do that. So I just hope that it happens. Um, And look, yeah, he probably yeah, I guess to answer your question, I've gone that in a very roundabout way. I apologize to that to answer your question, he probably will be the best win on his resume. But but I'll say this, if if Crews fought Ryan Garcia, uh, he'd be alive underdog in that fight for sure. The ki can he's he can punch, you know, he can really play. He's a tough guy and he can punch. And favor of Ryan Garcia bigger, you know, bigger puncher, bigger guy probably. But but that's a that's probably a better win than Geronte Davis is getting credit for, particularly because he was hurt. Um but that look, he's the one who decided to go into the fight with an injury, so that's on him. But um, but yeah, so probably probably Arcitia is the biggest one. Let's just hope from from a commercial standpoint for the health of the sport. Let's just hope it happens. And if we get ultimately Chris, with all this back and forth and all of the time that fans feel have been waste has been wasted with the negotiations in the back and forth, etcetera. If we wind up getting Davante Davis against Ryan Garcia and Terrence Crawford against Errol Spence in a within a two month span in early twenty three, I don't know what more you could ask for other than that. Yeah, I agree, and I do think there's motivation on both sides to get a deal done. As I said, I don't think there are the financial hurdles that exists with the Crawford Spence negotiations. I just to reiterate, I just don't know yet how they're going to handle distribution. How they handled that, to me is the biggest obstacle to overcome, and not a not an inconsiderable one, because look, I I understand people in boxing bizarrely route for networks. I don't really understand why the rout for promoters, I don't really understand why. But if you look at him, both sides Showtime has invested millions in Javante Davis. They deserve to be involved in the biggest fight of his career. The Zone has invested millions in Ryan Garcia. They deserve to be involved in the biggest fight of his career. I don't know. I don't know if they've figured out how that obstacle is able to be overcome. But I'm optimistic because both these guys want the fight, and if they can agree to a deal that might put enough pressure on the networks to get something done that that might That to me is a reason to be optimistic that we see that fight happen. And you're right, if we get that fight, if we can find a way to get Spence Crawford in the first quarter of the hell of a start for boxing uh in that year. All right, to talk about a couple of fights happening this weekend. Devin Haney is back in Australia to face George Campbosis in his contractually obligated rematch. The build up Keith has been quieter than what we saw in the first fight, largely because Cambosis has not said much. Haney won a wide decision in the first fight earlier this year. Um, in your mind, is there any reason to believe that this rematch will play out any differently? Well, I don't know that the result will be any different, but I would sure hope that George Campbosas approaches this fight in a different way, because I'd have to say that trying to outbox Devon Haney was the unwisest strategic move of didn't exactly go according to planned and and he didn't make many adjustments in the fight. So I think he's gonna come into this fight and he's gonna try to rough up Devon Haney because that's his only path to victory. It's the only one You're you're not outbout he. He's not capable about boxing Devon Hay need So if he goes in there and tries to employ the same tactics that he did on June five, well, you know a lot of people are gonna be changing the channel by the third round because there's no reason to watch it. You've already seen it play out over twelve rounds. So, Um, I've been led to believe that he is gonna try to make this as physical. I'm not saying dirty, but he's gonna try to rough Devon Hanny up, because what other alternative does he have? I mean, what like, what would make any sense for him to have some semblance of success in this fight than to do the complete opposite of what he tried to do in the first fight. He's not capable of doing that, So he's gone underground, so to speak. He's not he's not doing interviews even with the Australian press from what I've been led to believe. But I think part of the um lack of buzz for the second fight is because clearly the only reason that it's happening is because Devin Haney is contractually obligated to do it. And by the way, he deserves a lot of credit for having He wanted the opportunity to fight for the other three titles, but he didn't just agree to go fight him once in Australia it. He agreed to go fight him twice in Australia. And while he's being well compensated for it, most fighters would not have done that. So all the people that thought Devon Haney was not a real champion and didn't really want the fights that everyone else wanted, well, he's the one who went and made the tifle. Lopez took tough fights as well, obviously fought Romachenko, but um, he made it happen, and he didn't have to make it happen in this way. So he's only gone to Australia second time here in four and a half months or whatever because he had to. And I think that the lack of buzz for this second fight is strictly based on the non competitive nature of the first fight. It's not even if George Campboss was screaming from the mountaintops that he was going to do X, Y and Z to Devon Haney. I don't really think people would care all that much because they're gonna want to see it on Saturday night. So he has the opportunity to go win his belts back and prove that, uh that he is on the same level as Devon Hany or at a higher level. I don't foresee him doing that, but I didn't think he would be ti Fimo Lopez. And while Tifimo Lopez clearly had a lot of physical problems going into the ring, it was incumbent on him to pull out if if he couldn't function at the championship level, and he didn't pull out, so you gotta get Campbos his credit for pulling off he was I think Lopez was a ten to one favorite going into that fight. He might have went down a little bit before the fight, but he was a huge favorite. He went in there pulled off an upset, so he's done this before. But I don't have any reason to believe that Devon Haney has compromised going into this fight the way that tif Fimo Lopez apparently was, So I would expect it to play out similarly on on Saturday Night and for Devin Hany then to move forward and fight for silverma Chanco next, assuming Roma Chanco beach Germain Ortiz in a couple of weeks. Now. It feels like Devin Haney is in peak condition right now. When I talked to him for this show last week, he was eating Wow. We were talking, so like, it doesn't seem like he's having kind of weight issues. His dad is with him in Australia now, which was obviously an issue going into the first fight, and I think you're right. I think George camp Boss is going to try to make it a more physical fight, which is the right thing to do because as you said, he's not the boxer that Devin Haney is. And sometimes when you challenge the manhood of Devin Haney, he wants to respond in kind. He wants to show you that he's more man than you, that he's as physical as you, that he's a bigger puncher than perhaps he actually is. So the strategy is smart if that's the way Cambosis goes. I just don't think he's physically able to pull it off. I don't think he's not this big physical guy. He's gonna be smaller really than Devin Haney was a big one going into the ring. So I just don't know if he's going to be able to do it. As much as I like Cambosis on a personal level and respect him for what he did in that to female fight, he did exactly what he said he was gonna do. He went out, he knocked him down the first round, and he took the fight to him. I respect that. Is he a one hit wonder? Like you know, is he the guy that beat Tafima Lopez or is he more the guy that was life and death with Lise Selby, That was life and death with Mickey bay Um. You know, two solid but not spectacular fighters. Is he is the guy that Devin Haney beat who George Campbos's is, which is a very good fighter, but not a fighter on the level of Devin Haney. This is a big moment for George. I just maybe he's gonna prove us wrong once again. He already did it once. Maybe he's gonna he's capable of doing it once again. But you know, I just don't see. I think Hanny's just too skilled and we'll out box him. By the way, Like, I just want to give Devin Handy credit here, Like I love what he's done with his career, right, Like he starts off as kind of independent operator. He's on showtime on showbox, coming up that way, signs that he hearn makes a bunch of money, gets a few decent fights towards the end of that contract. And now he's got He gets two fights this year. Yes he has to go to Australia to take them, but he's gonna make four million dollars for this fight against George Campbos made a couple of million for the last fight. Uh. He's the undisputed champion at one five and at age twenty three, he's going to go into two thousand twenty three with a chance to fight Vasili Lomachenko, skor Stevenson, guys like that and really burnish his resume at a very young age in an Eric Keith where so many fighters are fighting once and not fighting good fights and the resumes are so weak. Good for Devin Handy for kind of season control of his career. I know, we didn't want to leave any here, and he had a good relationship with any heard, but he understood that to get the fights that he wanted he had to separate and go with a different promoter. He did, and now here he is like with all the belts, at one with money and with a chance to fight big fights moving forward. I mean, I I just hope, I wish really that more fighters took this approach and said, look, we're not gonna tire herself to one network, one promote, or want anything. We're just gonna look for the biggest and best opportunities because Keith, whenever guys do that, it often works out at the highest level, Like Floyd Maywerther did it. Miguel Codo bounced around from promoter to to network for years. Towards the end of his career to get the biggest fights. Now Devin Haney's doing it, and I hope more guys look to that because Devin Haney is to me an example for how not just young fighter, but how all fighters should operate. And and in terms of broadening his fan base and everything too. Now he's now fighting on ESPN, which has the reach. I mean, you know, obviously it's available in eighty is chamillion homes in the United States and uh and the and his fights against Cambos has Both fights were shown on the network. They were not behind the paywall. I mean, you have obviously have to pay for ESPN is part of the cable package, but you didn't have to you don't have to pay for ESPN plus for the for the opportunity to see the fight. So um, you know, it was a good move on that and that sense too. And now if he let's just say, if he goes and fights Facility Lomachenco. Now I do think if he fights Loma Chenko, I believe the fight will be on ESPN pay per view. That's what I've been led to believe from the very beginning. That was the plants. But you know, he still will have had three big fights, uh, for which he was paid a lot of money, of course, but like you said, it's not always easy separating from a promoter or from a in this case of streaming service that had done right by you over the years. Um And and sometimes you know, fighters for all intensive purposes should always do what's best for them because look, when you know, someone knocks Devan Haney out next year, and then he gets knocked out a couple of times or whatever, and no one's gonna care. So you gotta you gotta make, you know, maximize your earning potential while it's there, while he's still very young obviously twenty three years old. But um, but yeah, and the one thing I would say, christ is I do think that if he fights loma Chenko, which I which everyone seems to think is going to happen, because I do not see Lomachenko into Jermaine Ortiz. But assuming that fight happens, win or lose, I would see Devin Haney moving up to one forty for the next fight, because, as you said before, he was eating when you were on the phone with him, which is a good sign assuming he wasn't doing it for show. He is a good sign that he was doing that while he's trying to make weight. But he's a you know, he's like five nine and a half like that. You know, it's not easy for him to make a hundred and thirty five pounds. So I would think as he as he gets older and his body matures here, I think, especially if he beats Lomachenko, um, then you know, then who have beaten Cambosis in back to back fights, beat a legendary three division champion who was a top pound for pound guy for a very long time. You know, if nothing left to prove at one thirty five, I know people obviously would want to see him fight shakor Stevenson. We all want to see that. But even Shakoor said to me a few weeks before, I think it was when they had the original press conference for his fight against Robson, can say so now? He said, it always seems like Devin and I are division apart, And he said, I do think will event should we fight, but I'm not sure that it's going to be at a hundred and thirty five pounds. And this is before he didn't make weight and lost his titles at the scale and all. But he had planned and moved to one thirty five anyway, but he seemed to think that they would fight maybe at one forty or maybe even one seven one day, as opposed to fighting at It makes a lot of sense for it to wait a little while longer because if Devin beats or whatever happens in the Lomachenko fight, win or lose, you go up to one forty, and you're a marketable commodity against a Tafima Lopez, against Ryan Garcia, against a regious prograde. There are some big names right now at one forty, So he's he's got everything kind of lined up. And I was talking to him about this last week. It just feels like after a pretty frustrating last couple of years of his career, where he couldn't get Ta Fema in the ring, he couldn't get Ryan Garcia in the ring, now he's got the belts, he's got money, and he's got those opportunities to showcase his talent, which is really all he's been asking for, Like he's been looking for those opportunities and now he's gonna get him. By the way, the disrespect you're showing Jamaine Ortiz, the pride of Worcestern, Massachusetts. Is I'm not good listen, good for er? Look where you look where he came from. He was fighting on show Prospect. He goes and beach Jamal Herring and a fight that you know, Jamal's towards the end of his career of course, but and you know, probably better suited for a weight class lower. But but that's a good win for him. And I spoke to Jamaine Ortiz on the phone last week and nice kid, of his great opportunity for him, his family and everything. But let's be honest. I mean, Loma chenko is, I understand your Massachusetts bias and all, but you know that's a tall order to kind know sile Lomatanko Chenco is not tall, but it's a tall order for sure for him to come into the ring and be the fighter of that magnazine. What Chris, can I say one thing too? Yeah? I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said about Devin Haney. I also think that George Campbosis deserves a lot of credit because George Campbosis could have beaten Tia female Lopez, taken a victory lap in Australia fight fought whichever guy there was an Australian fighter that was ranked in the top whatever of the whatever, and he could have fought him in a stadium or you know, Rod Lavere arena or whatever it was and done, you know, made a lot of money and like I said, taking a victory lap and then coming and taken a real fight so to speak around now. And he said, no, I want to go. I want what he wanted Lomachenko and Lomachenko wasn't or whatever. Um, I'll fight Devon Hany. Bring Devon Haney over here. I'll fight him. You know. Of course Hany was obligated to do the rematch in Australian immediate rematch in Australia. But Boss deserves some credit to I mean, he didn't fight the smartest fight in June five, but to take that fight when he could have, you know, he could have fought twice in Australia and no one would have blinked, probably right and uh and he took a very tough fight and he and he paid the consequence for it. And now he gets his opportunity to win back his titles. You know, look who knows right? I mean, you'd have to favor Haney and to do something similar to what he did one months ago. But you know he catches him with the round shot. You know who knows you're right. Look, he caught Femo with a good shot, knock him down in the first round. Maybe can catch Haney. And as we said at the top discussing that fight, you know you want to try to get Devin Haney into a street fight, like you want to make it more of a brawl than a boxing match, because I think George Campbosis could theoretically win a brawl with Devin Haney. I don't believe he can win a boxing match. I think Devon is just too skilled, too long to everything for George. So in that sense, I am interested to see the style of the fight and if it looks anything different like the first one. All right, let's talk about the fight you're gonna be at this weekend. Deontay Wilder. He will end a one year layoff when he takes on Robert Lennius. Wilder has been his usual outspoken self over the last few weeks of interesting claims about Tyson Fury, about his Hall of Fame status, about a lot of different things. Um He's talked a lot about the second reign of his That's gonna be fun as he approaches thirty seven years old. What I guess the question is what are your expectations for Deontay Wilder at this stage? What are you looking for from him as he resumes his career. Well, I think what Saturday Night is about, more than anything, Chris, is how is Deontay Wilder going to react to what was an indisputable, vicious, violent knockout loss. There's no excusing this one away. There's no you know, my suit weight, you know my costume weigh too much, and his gloves were altered, and uh, Darrell Brothers were conspiring with people in the crowd. Come on, he lost, and he put up a hell of an effort, man, I mean he almost knocked Tyson Fury out again and down twice in the fourth round. Thought through what I thought? I thought both guys in that fight really thought through some severe fatigue because it's just two huge dudes, you know, laying on each other and hammering away at each other. And then you know, de Wilder was very tired, and Tyson Fury showed a lot of fortitude and resilience and came back and viciously knocked him out. Now, while there's never been in that position, because he's never been in this position that he's going into on Saturday night, because he had all those excuses after the second fight, after the rematch, he you know, he excused it away. He was he was knocked down multiple times in the fight, but he was finished on his feet, argued that he should have continued. There was no emphatic, conclusive ending to that fight. Whereas the third fight, you can't excuse that away. You can't rationalize that, and you can't and you're even and you're even in you know, the depths of your own mind, you can't come away from that saying he just he's not going to say this because there's a lot of ego involved there, but he knows that Tyson Fury, he was just better than him, There's no two ways about it. He's not gonna say it, but that's that's a fact. So while he almost won the fight, you know, he knocked him down twice and made it a very entertaining slug fest. Um, how does he react mentally? Well, Like, physically, I'm sure he's fine because while he's going to be thirty seven years old the week after the fight. He doesn't have as much wear and tear on him as your normal thirty seven year old because he started boxing, so lady didn't have as many, nearly as many amateur fights as a lot of these guys. Um, you know, he got beat up in the second fight a little bit, but it was only lasted six and a half rounds or so, so so not as much as a beating as I think he took in this, or punishment as I think he took in the third fight. Uh so, not a ton of mileage. But man, yeah, that's kind of you know, he's the guy who remember you know, he's running. He's the knockout artist of box you know, he's the most polarizing puncher in the history of the Spiattiotti all this stuff, you know that, which to some degree was true. You know, I'm the hardest puncher in the history of the sport. There's no really way to quantify that, but certainly one of them. You know, he knocked out almost everyone he fought, so there's no disputing that. So you go from having this aura of invincibility like Mike Tyson had once upon a time, then it kind of gets beaten out of you a little bit. Um. He's still at the stating puncher, right, so I expect him to come through this fight. Uh. I don't want to say with no problems whatsoever, but let's be honest, like Collaneus is there to be hit. He can punch, he's a big, strong guy, but he's there to be hit. He's slow, he barely moves his head. And Deontay Wilder is is nothing short of a devastating puncher. So I would expect him to knock Robert Collaneus out on Saturday Night. But what happens if Hellaneus, who was getting who Colonaki honestly was beating up in the first couple of rounds of the first fight, and all of a sudden just lands something. Oh oh wha? You know what if what if that happen? What happens if he does that to Deontay Wilder? How does Deontay Wilder react to that? That's what I think Saturday Night is about more than anything, because we know he's still a devastating puncher. He looks like he's in good shape. He actually said that he's going to come in tomorrow at the way and he's going to come in significantly lighter than the to the career high to thirty eight. He wait for their third fight, right, So, all of those things seemed to be uh in line for Wilder to look good on Saturday. The question that I have is when Robert Hellaneous inevitably clips him with a shot, what happens? That's what it's let's saying, it's worth seventy five bucks necessarily, but that's what Saturday Nights about. And one other thing, Chris, because I understand the frustration of people saying, like, you know, why is he fighting Hellaneous and blah blah blah. I don't have a problem with him fighting Robert Laneus. This is his first fight and over a year. He's coming off a devastating knockout loss. Alans is coming off back to back wins against Karnaki, which are which are very credible winds. And the other thing is PBC's plan all along was for Deontay Wilder. Now they thought he would be defending his WBC title because they felt like he would beat Tyson Fury. The plan all along, from PBC's perspective, was for Deontay Wilder to fight Adam Karnosky at Barclay Center. Because Karnoski is from Brooklyn, they would have drawn a huge crowd. The Polish people would have come out and drove stor I mean it was sold the building out with a great event. Blah blah blah. Well he's now fighting the guy who beat Pronofski twice. That makes perfect sense. I mean this is not surprising, like like you could have predicted if the last October. Who say, Okay, Deonta Wilder is gonna come back and fight, you know, nine months from now, a year from now. I think he's gonna fight Hellaneous. I don't. I don't. That would Connecting those dots was not difficult. And that's ultimately and also Llaneous was owed a seven figure payday after beating uh Pronoski second time. Well, who you're gonna pay him seven figures to fight exactly besides Deontay. Yeah, look, I think Millennius is a perfectly reasonable opponent for Deontay Wilder um for all the reasons you said. I don't think like I think the I think his wins are more a product of Adam Kovnowski's weaknesses than they are necessarily a resurgence of Robert Hillenneus. I think he's still the same guy that was stopped by Gerald Washman, still the same guy that was stopped by Yell and Dappas. But he does have those two wins, which makes him credible in this situation. And Deontay Wilder, if he's anything close to the guy we've seen in recent years, he should score a devastating knockout win. He should. That should be the outcome um of this fight. I'm curious to see kind of how it plays out, though, Like is it a drawn out war where you know, Lennius lands some big shots and Wilder struggles with him at times. That'll tell me a little bit something about where wild there is as he approaches that thirty seventh birthday. So I'm curious to see in you know, how that plays out in that respect. Um, As far as kind of the future of Wilder, we don't need to get into the Hall of Fame debate necessarily. That will come whenever his career is over. But look, I think this next you know rain as he likes to call it, is important for his legacy because look, the chapter of his career that included the WBC heavyweight title, that included the three fights against Tyson Fury. That's over. Like you know, it was a good run, it wasn't a great run because he didn't get a win over Fury and his best win up until that point was the back to back wins over Louis Ortiz. He's gonna have some opportunities now, Keith, if he gets through Villennious to get some of those legacy defining fights. Presumably there's a fight against Andy Ruise to be made in the first half of three. Anthony Joshua is still out there. Tyson Fury has even come out and said, look, I'll fight Wilder a fourth time if he becomes my mandatory for that title. I'm not so sure that's I don't know who I don't we really need to see that necessarily, but you know, there are real opportunities for Wilder to establish the legacy that he believes he has, if that makes any sense, Like there, this is like a stretch for him the next year year and a half where he can really established himself as one of the best heavyweights of this area. Is already one of the biggest, if not the biggest puncher of this era at any weight, but in terms of legacy names on his resume, quality wins. This feels like his opportunity. It feels like that window'keeth strangely is now wide open. Yeah, it's interesting, Chris, because I do see the Ruise fight. Uh, everyone sees the Ruise fight is very makeable. It makes perfect sense. They've they've headlined back to back Fox Sports pay per view shows here for a reason, because you know that you would think that there on a collision of course to fight each other. Now, that might not be the fight that Wilder wants or that Ruise wants, but from the PBC perspective, that's the fight you could make. You have two former heavyweight champions. You know you could put it on pay per view, and you know it wouldn't be the biggest pay per view fight that you could make. But this is the guy who knocked Joshua out against you long reigning heavyweight champion. It makes perfect sense those other fights, Chris, I don't know that those those fights happen. I don't for one second excuse me that Joshua was going to fight Yante Wilder. I don't believe it. Um, it doesn't make sense. He could find you know, if he could go fight Fury, and you know, we know what just happened there. But let's just say they could go make that fighter. He could fight some you know, someone else. I don't see Eddie Hearn putting him in the ring with Wilder because he's just such a huge puncher. And then what are you getting out of it at this point, Like he doesn't have the WBC title, he's already been beaten by Tyson Fury, And if the Fury fight is really available for Joshua at some point, I would focus on making that. It just makes much more business sense, particularly in the United Kingdom. Um is I now, I know Us says that he's coming to the fight and he wants to fight Wilder. Why in the world would Alexander USA come off of the fight against Joshua and then fight Wilder. It makes no sense. Go fight Fury. All the titles are at stake, You'll go make an enormous amount of money. What what purpose would serve from the outside look in, what purpose would it serve exactly for us to go fight Wilder, the guy who Fury will beat back to back fights, knocked them out viciously in the third fight. What purpose does that serve except perhaps getting clipped by the bigness punch er of this error and getting knocked out. It makes no sense, right, I think there's there's a lot of there's a lot of posturing going on right now in the heavyweight division where you know people threatened. You know, it's like you said showing up to the Wilder fight, Fury talking about facing Joshua. I think ultimately Fury us to get together in the first half and that is decided one way or the other. Wilder. Let's see what happens with this fight, Let's see what happens with Andy Ruiz, and then we'll see where the belts are at that point and what, um, what the landscape ultimately looks like. All right, last thing for you, Keith Over in the UK, the women's card that was scuttled after the death of the Queen last month, it is back on. I gotta tell you, I am very interested in this card. Um. You have Claressa Shields against Vannah Marshall at the top, but the fight that interests me the most is this Mikhaela mayor Alicia bum Garner, which quite frankly should be a main event in the US on ESPN somewhere, it's like that's spicy a matchup. You see these two just going back and forth, whether it's on social media, there, at the press conferences this week, at the fighter workouts this week, kind of nose two knows they do not like each other. Keith, and this is a quality, relevant fight at a hundred and thirty pounds, which will pretty firmly established who the top fighter in that weight classes. So Shields Marshall, mayor bum Gardner. Which one of the two are you most looking forward to? Well, personally, I'm more looking forward to the Shields Marshall fight, just because there's the history there. You know. Claressa Shields. Um, Look, I don't see any way that she's not the best pound for pound fighter in women's boxing. And other people have said that Katie Taylor, I don't get it. I mean, Claressa Shields is a threeweight world champion in her first professional fight, fought someone who later became the undisputed super middleweight champion in her first professional fight and beat her. She's barely lost around in any of her fights. She's not a knockout puncher. Um. You know, maybe some of that is related to minute rounds and such. But but she's fighting a big puncher, you know, a woman, the only woman to have ever beaten her in a boxing match. So that alone, and she's and she's going into her home country to do it, and that to me is more entreating just from the boxing standpoint. Now, I didn't think I would have been able to say this three or four months ago, but there was actually more animosity between Mikhaela Mayer and Alicia bum Garner than than Clarssa Shields and Savannah Marshall. I would not have predicted that, but there clearly is. So that's gonna be an excellent fight as well. But I just think the more, in my opinion, more meaningful fight is Claressa Shields against Savannah Marshall because she's again the only woman who has ever beaten her. And and I mean seriously, other than her being knocked down by Hannah Gabriel's than in the earlier I think it was the first round of that fight. Has anyone come close to touching the rest of Shields. I mean, she embarrassed. She didn't beat Christie to have she embarrassed her. She was an undefeated world long reigning world champion, and she couldn't lay a glove on her for ten rounds. So she's an elite level fighter, I understand. Know. I think even if you ask Claressa in a quiet moment, you know, maybe she's She gets carried away on social media sometimes you know, like she's but she's not. But she's not afraid um to voice her opinion and to and to uh further established her brand. Um. All of that is what's helped make her a great fighter. So she again, if there's someone better pound for pound that has proven it over the last few years in women's boxing than her, I really like a real explanation for that. Because Katie Taylor, we could argue lost to Delphine Pursue in the first fight. You could certainly argue that she almost got knocked out by Amanda Serrano and last fight, no one's doing that too. Now caresses in with a big puncher, I mean, and that's the whole point of the fight, right, I mean, she's you know, she's not the boxer that caressa shield is that's there's no two ways about that. But she can't punch, So I think the intrigue in that fight for me personally, does it a little more than the Mayor bub Gardner fight. But but that's a very good fight, and it's a unification fight in the hundred and thirty pound division. And then what appears to be genuine hatred among them between them is wow. I mean, did she call her a Karen today? Is that? What happened to? Uh? You know, there's some there's some language. It's getting heated out there in the UK. And the one thing I would say, Christ that's unfortunate for this for this event is what of course you are the queen dying is a once in a lifetime situation, and of course they have their protocols there and you just you just feel bad for the for the women who would train and gone through an entire training camp and they're ready to weigh in, and they go through a press conference even and they don't even know up until the minute you know that they're supposed to be in that the fight's off. I mean, that's a tough turnaround to then go back to the States, go back to training camp, then come back to ye know that that's a lot to go through, you know, Savannah Marshall is the best thing that could ever happen to Claressa Shields because Katie Taylor had Amanda Serrano, like have the natural rival that led to the great fight this past spring. In fact, Katie Taylor has had a depth of quality opponents that Claressa Shields has not had, which is not too dismiss franciawn Cruise Discern or Hannah Gabriel's or Christina Hammer, but Claressa Shields is just on a different level than that. Now she might be on a different level than Savannah Marshall too, Like Savannah Marshall has been knocking people out, but Claressa is fully capable of just boxing circles around her. But we won't know that until the end of the tenth round or whatever round it ends in this fight. Right now, it's the most compelling end interested I've been in a Claressa Shields matchups since she turned pro simple as and we we just haven't had that like there was for a couple of Katie Taylor fights, whether it was to a lesser degree Jessica McCaskill that was at one forty um Delphine pursued the rematch obviously, Amanda Serrano. Like we've been interested in Katie Taylor fights at a high level before the fight, we haven't been as interested in Claressa fights, even when she's fighting for undisputed championships. This time we are because Savannah Marshall has the amateur win. Savannah Marshall has knockout power. Savannah Marshall and Peter Fury are talking an enormous amount of ship and have been for months now. I'm just exciting, Keith. I love it. I love a natural rivalry like this, which I think will I don't know what it does for Claressa long term, but this will be here her if she wins, this will be your signature win. This will be even even if she's one undisputed championships before, and this is technically for the undisputed title at one sixty. Uh, this will be whenever she's not. This is our biggest fight and it's because Savannah Marshall is such a natural rival to her. Absolutely, I agree, Chris. I mean because they're the intrigue is there, because it's it's pure elite level boxer against a huge puncher. She's of course Savanna Marshall has fought a much lower level of opposition overall than Haressa Shields has um but she's been knocking people out. She's you know, well we know it's ten knockouts. I think so um hm, you know that. That's that's the intrigue. And that's why I'm more to answer your original question. That's why I'm more interested in it because, like you said, Harresta Shields has been so dominant, like you almost go into her fights thinking, all right, well she's not a huge puncher or anything, but this is gonna be a ten rounds to nothing whitewash. And you know who she's gonna fight next, Well, this is once wanted her to, wanted to see her fight next for quite some time, and now it's here. It's gonna be a fun Saturday, multiple good cards, three different continents, men's, women's, all sorts of good stuff. Is the kind of Saturday that boxing needs after the last couple of weeks. Keith, good luck at the fight at Barclay's on Saturday. And I always appreciate you coming on this ch I appreciate it. And when we come back. My conversation with Caleb Plant two thousand two two. When it comes to the economy, those are some scary years. Dot Com crash, housing crash, and the roller coaster we're going through right now. One thing is certain. It's a dangerous time to not know your numbers. But over thirty one thousand businesses have the confidence in clarity they need because they rely on net Suite by Oracle, the number one cloud financial system. 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He is back for the first time since losing his title to Canelo Alvarez when he takes on Anthony Durrellicis fight you can see as part of the event headlined by the heavyweight matchup between Deontay Wilder and Robert Lennius, and Caleb is here to talk about his fight, maybe a couple of other things. So, Kayleb, but it has been eleven months since your loss to Canello, the first loss of your pro career. Um, What are those loven months been like for you? Was it difficult to get past? Was it easy? How would you describe it? Um? Well, you know, it was obviously disappointing to lose. I don't get in I don't think anybody gets into boxing to lose. Um. You know, with some of his other competitors, you know, it seemed like they almost put it, just kind of showed up for a check. But obviously, with you know, everything I did, the success I had, it's not like I was showing up for a check. So I was disappointed and losing, but that didn't encourage me from, you know, what I wanted to do moving forward in my career didn't discourage my confidence. You know, I'm not the type of person to sit around look my wounds and feel sorry for myself. And you know that may have been my first, uh loss in the ring, but you know, I take a many losses in life, and I've had the chance to bow out and uh, you know say that this is too much for me. So you know, one about that night of boxing out of three in six or five days, is it gonna you know, do anything to my confidence or or discourage me from what I want to do. So it's been a minute since I've been in the ring. But um, you know, surely after the fighting, me, my team, we got back to work and uh you know, clean some things up, kept working a lot of things we had success with and we're ready to fight. So you say, you don't You're not the kind of guy that sits around and licks his wounds, are you? Are you the kind of guy that kind of obsesses over what you could have done? Like were you watching it back a whole bunch of times thinking about what you might have been able to do? No, I'm not, um the type of guy to look you know too much in the past. Uh look back at the fight I watched. I watched the fight multiple times. I know some of the things that I could have done better, And you know, moving forward, I have that experience under my belt now and I can you know, shopping those things up on my team, like I said, and and just keep moving forward. So talk to me about kind of using that experience. Are there things you have been able to take away from that experience that you believe will make you a better fighter moving forward? Absolutely? You know, being in that type of situation, being in that environment in media, I never felt with too much for me the fight ninth, the crowd even, but oh, experience isn't something that you can buy. You gotta go through the fire to get it. I felt like I've done that. I feel like I've done that with grace. Um you know, I went out on my shield. It's not like I just quit or anything, but I went out on my shield, and um, I I got a lot of respect for the fight after that. I got more respect after that fight, after losing a fight than any fight that I've ever won, which is crazy to me, but so you know, to these are the big fights that I'm moving into. You know that that's priceless. I want to ask you about something andre Ward said recently during an appearance on ESPN, he was asked about the resume of Canelo Alvarez. Here's what he said. It's tricky and it's complicated because on the surface, he's fought everybody, He's done everything, he's taken all the risk. If you know what you're looking for when you look at some of those names he fought, he doesn't have a lot of prime names on his resume. That being said, I think Canelo is a great talent. I think he's had a great career, and of course he's a Hall of Famer, no doubt about that. But I don't know if I think there's a little bit more window dressing with his record than than what people realize in his career. So you are one of those names, Caleb, You were undefeated and very much in your prime. You also have a relationship with andre Ward. What's your reaction to that. Yeah, I mean, I think his answer was more detailed than just speaking generally of everyone that he's ever fought. And uh, I'm sure you know without you being in part of box, and I'm sure you know as well. Uh, I know that as well. But you know, for maybe some of the viewers at home. Um, obviously it's not like I'm order out of my prime only being thirty. So I don't think that he meant that for every opponent that he's ever faced. I just think that he meant that forum a hand for or some of the phonests that he's fought. Yeah, certainly, whether it was you, you were a much in your prime, Callum Smith was in his prime, Billy Joe Saunders in his primes face some prime guys, would you agree? He seems like, whether it's you, Billy Joe Saunders, Callum Smith. You know, during that run at super middleweight, he has faced some prime guys. Yeah, I'd say so, m Um. So you're going up against Anthony Darrell in this fight, and I gotta be honest, Caleb, I didn't see a Caleb Plant Anthony Durrell war of words rising to this level. I was at that kickoff press conference in Brooklyn last month and Durrell he really went at you on a personal level. And I was watching his interviews this week and he says things like he doesn't like you, doesn't respect to you, and even when this fight is over, he's not going to shake your hand. I mean, has has this animosity that Durrell seems to have surprised you. Um, I mean it's not surprising just because you know, from a distance you can kind of see how he carries himself, and you know the things that the antics he tries to pull before he fights. I mean, even when he fought by Jack years ago, um at the way ends trying to get out, get up, run run after him, get all up in his face, act like he was going to fight him. And you know, the same thing with Sakio Bika. Um So you know now that I've been around boxing a long com so I'm nothing surprised to me. But as far as like B's hanging out or kicking it, you know, I've never really even had an interaction with him. Um So, uh if he thinks he hates me now, then you know, come out to her fifteen. He don't have he don't have a lot of reasons to hate me. So it's almost like he's turned this whole thing into like some type of therapy session and talking about how he don't like me and nobody else likes me. And you know, as if I would care about any of that. I'm not in boxing so that you know, my competitors that people across from me like me or you know, I don't concern myself with that. I can concern myself with my team and focusing and staying on the straight and narrow and um. You know, but he's easily distracted by a lot of things. You always see him yelling at the talking to the reff, crying the reff, talking to the crowd, and he he don't need to be worried about how I carry myself for what I do. He should be focused on himself. And maybe if he focused on himself more throughout his career, he may have had a successful title fence along the way, but he's never had a successful title fence. I felt kind of like we're back in high school with some of that, Like I don't like you, and everybody else doesn't like you either. Yeah. Yeah, it sounds like some high school druming to me. I don't concern myself with things like that. I'm focused on the task at hand. Um, I'm a competitor. I'm a high level, competitive, world class competitor, and you know, I could give a ship less. You know, if people don't like me or or you know, he says, I'm an asshole because after the fight has done, you know the way I carry myself for act. But I've always shook my competitor's hands. I've always respected them for getting the ring with me. But then here he is saying that after the fight he's not going to shake my hand, So, you know, kind of ironic. Um, but he's an idiot, he's a dumb ass. And after this fight he's gonna be retired anyway. So I ain't really gonna matter. Are you expecting a tough fight? Um, I'm gonna expect an ambitious ass woman. So, um, you have a new voice in your corner for this fight. Steven Edwards, a well known guy in boxing, work with Jay Rock Williams, former four pound champion, among others. He will join your father in your corner on Saturday. Can you explain why you felt the need to kind of build out your team for this fight? Um, yeah, it was just kind of a situation that came about. And so you know, there's a few guys in boxing whose opinion I respect um on a level for them to you know, be able to be in that position, and um, he's one of them. So he's um. Even before we got together and he was on on this team, he's someone who I would reach out to to ask about scenarios in boxing. You know, what he thinks about this scenario, what he thinks about that. And he's got a really analytical approach of the game as well, you know, as do I and UM. So I really liked that about him. His his fight i Q is really high. He's also a boxing historian, which I respect. And you know, so he came to Vegas and uh, you know, we got some work in. It went real well. I went to Philly a couple of times. I got some work in, and the chemistry has been great. Um, even before, like I said, he got on the team, but obviously being on the team, the chemistry has been great between me, him, him and my dad and all three of us has been real seamless, and so, uh, you know, he's a perfect fit. He's a great coach, and we're excited to you know, you know, uh finish off this journey together. Was this a reaction to the Canelo loss? Did you feel after that fight you needed to add something else to get to that next level? Uh? No, Uh, last question for you. You you've said many times you want to get back to the top, you want the rematch with Cannelo Alvarez, and that you're willing to kind of face those top names and go up there and face those top guys to do that. You are promotionally in a great position. You runder the same banner as David Benavidez, Jamal Charlotte, among others, including Anthony Darrell A lot of guys though seem to be only fighting around once a year. How confident are you that you can be active enough to get those fights to get back to the level where you want to be at. Um, Well, right now, I'm really just focused on fifteen the October, you know, UM, and and handling business and fashion. You know, I don't think it would be wise of me right now to get too concern with who I'm fighting next, or how many times I need to be fighting, or you know, anything of that man or I'm really happy with how my career has been handled up until this point and thus far with Al Hayman and Loose to CUBIS and PBC, they've done a great job. Um you know, if you you know, like you just said, I'm in a great position. I'm in one of the best positions in boxing. That's only with twenty two fights, um, and that's a lot less than a lot of most of these guys. So I'm happy with where I'm at. But right now I'm just focused on the test of hand with this weekend October fifteen, and then you know, we'll look to move forward and see what's next for the future. Okay, it's good to have you back, man, Um, glad to see in a position to get more big fights, and thanks for your time and when we come back. This week's picks brought to you by fan Duel. Now is the perfect time to download Fan Duel, America's number one sports book, joined today to get started with What are the fifty dollars and free bets guaranteed when you place your first five dollar bet. That's free bets back if your first bet doesn't win. Just sign up with the promo code Boxing. This is a big boxing betting weekend for me. Three great cars, three different continents. I'm gonna be gambling on boxing all weekend long, and I'm gonna be doing it with my Fan Duel app. Fan Duel has all your favorite bets on the money line to point spreads, two player props. You can combine your bets for a chance at a bigger payout with a same game parlay. With live Betting, You'll get updated odds on games that I've already started. Get paid your winnings fast with fan Duel, all in an app that's safe, secure, and super easy to use. Don't fumble your chance to get one and fifty in free bets, Win or lose with promo code boxing. Make every moment more this season with Fan Duels, official sports book partner of the NFL. Time now for this week's picks, brought to you by our friends over at fan Duel. In this week, I am going to do something I have never done on this podcast. I Am not only gonna pick one fight, not two fights, not three fights. I want to pick four fights. I'm going to give you four winners. That's eight bets in total to make that I think will help you get rich this weekend. I'm very confident in my picks going into this weekend. I want to start with the heavyweight fight between Deontay Wilder and Robert Lennius. Wilder returning after a year layoff, Llennius he's got some momentum after back to back wins over Adam of Nasky wild there's a big favorite, understandably, so minus eight fifty according to fan Duel, I like that bet though a lot. You can park your money on Deontay Wilder. He is going to win that fight. He's also going to win by knockout minus three fifty. Not the best of odds, but while they doesn't go to decisions, he doesn't. He wins by knockout. So if you bet big on Deontay Wilder by knockout, you have a chance to win some money. Over in Australia, Devin Haney against George Campbosis Devin Haney minus eleven hundred right now. Again not great odds, but Devin Haney I think showed in that first fight that he is on a different level than George camp Boss and I just don't think that camp Boss has the skills to be able to make the kind of adjustments you need to make to be more competitive against Devon Hayes. So take Devon Hated to win at minus eleven hundred. I think he wins by decision as well. Minus two fifty there for Devon Haney by decision. George might attempt to make this something of a brawl, in which case we could see a knockdown, maybe two knockdowns. But Devin Haney strength is as a boxer and I think he wins this fight by decision. Over in Australia making it too straight against George Campbosas. Over in the UK, MICHAELA Mayre Alicia Bomb Gardener the coal made event of the Big ESPN Women's Show this weekend. MICHAELA Mayre minus three fifty favorite. I like her a lot to win this fight bomb Gardner. She's got power, no question about it. You go back and watch that one punch knockout against Terry Harper. That will show you the kind of power that Atlicia bomb got her has. But I think MICHAELA Mayre is a more skilled fighter. She's a former Olympian, she's got more depth to her resume, She's faced more top fighters in and around her weight class. I think MICHAELA Mayre is going to win this fight now how she wins. MICHAELA Mayre is another one that doesn't knock a lot of people out, so I think she wins by decision as well. It's minus two thirties, so around the same odds from Acayla mar to win and to win by decision. But I think that's how this fight ultimately plays out. Great fight, a lot of bad blood between these two women. I think it could be fun as long as it last. But I think Michael a Mayor a little bit better than Alicia Bumgarner going into this fight. The main events over in the UK Claressa Shields against Savannah Marshall. The rivalry finally finishes in the ring between two women that have been circling each other since the amateur days. Claressa's Shields just a minus one thirty six favorite to win. At one point she was an underdog. I didn't really understand that Savannah Marshall is a big puncher, excellent fighter, but Clarisa is just next level good and Claressa's talking a big game about going and hurting her and knocking the route. We'll get to that, but I think Claressa Shields wins this fight, and I think she has the skill set to win it convincingly. One sixty is a good size for Claressa Shields. Savannah Marshall is always danger with that right hand. She's gonna be in great Shape's got a great corner in Peter Fury. But I think Claressa Shields wins that fight. How she wins, she ain't gonna win by knockout. So you're best chance of winning some big money. Here is the bet on Shields by points or decision plus one ten to win by decision, and that's that's a bet I'd make big. If I'm gonna make one bet and I'm gonna go big on any of them, I would go big on Claressa Shields by decision. She is an active puncher, volume puncher, but about how much he tries to be. She's not a big puncher, and I think she's going to have a tough time hurting Savannah Marshall. I do think this fight winds up being an eight to seven three type of decision. I think Claressa Shields is just on a different level skill wise then Savannah Marshall. But this is your chance to make some money. Lorressa Shields plus one ten by decision. Bet on that bet on all four fights, and we will reconvene on Monday and see how it came out. Because I'm doing it and I intend to get back to my winning ways. It's been a tough couple of weeks with bets. Thank you Sebastian Vandor for not being able to finish off Carlso Campo last week. But I think this is the week I get on tracked and like I do it with four big wins. Those are my picks, brought to you by fandoms