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Hosted by s I S Chris Mannix. That was my Moments now with interviews, analysis and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix all right, a lot to unpack this week to assist me on this week's episode. Kevin Iolie, senior writer, Combat sports writer, boxing writer, mm A writer over at Yahoo Sports. Kevin, what's up man? How are you? It's a busy week for sure. When you blend you know, the it seems like bi annual crazy contract talks in boxing with the NBA trade deadline it where they kind of blend together. It makes for a lot of a lot going on there, but a lot of fun, a lot of fun. But I do want to talk first of about this this Ryan Garcia Tank Davis situation. I did a brief podcast on this on god you know day it is anymore Tuesday, I think, and I just talked about kind of where we are and where we stand right now still as we record this late on Thursday, is that there is still no deal, no sign deal for Ryan Garcia to face Tank Davis, and that is entirely due two a rematch clause that Golden Boy said it never agreed to, not specifically with the terms of the rematch. Those are fine with both sides percentage splits all that how they change if Ryan Garcia were to win, but the being the lead promoter, which is something Golden Boy is insisting on, and which as the lead promoter, they would be able to use their own broadcast partner, that being disowned as the primary pay per view provider PBCs back Showtime is pushing back and they are saying no, no, no, it's the same as it would be for the first fight. So before we get some details on all this, give me your take from everything you've seen, heard, read reported on over this past week involving Ryan Garcia Tech Davis, this is all Oscar de la Hoya, right, and and I mean he's just like if he would have shut his mouth and let the negotiations play out. But you know, if you follow Oscar social media, feed the fight song, We're ready to go, the fights off. We need this, we need he's setting artificial deadlines. I mean, I blame this all on Oscar right now. One thing I agree with Steven Espinos on he said, I think to Marcos Viegas in an interview that it's not uncommon for fights not to be actually signed until the week of the fight. That was the case of Mayweather packial. You know, they had that, you know, a huge press tour around the world. They didn't sign the contract until they were in Las Vegas the week of the fight. You agree to the terms, but the problem is, you know, did they agree to the terms or did they not because Oscar said they did, Like, we don't have the PBC out there talking, we just have Oscar doing all the talking. And um, I think he just created He puts a perception on his sport. He thinks he's doing good by saying we're trying to make these big fights. But what he's doing is he's just making boxing look stupid by saying, hey, we have an agreement. Oh no, we don't. We're close, We're not closed. Now he's bringing up breaches pro grade. I mean, I think if you if Oscar was shut his mouth and not put an announcement out until the fight was agreed to officially by everybody, then you have a deal. But like I wrote in my column a couple of weeks ago, the fighters basically agreed to all these terms in November, and now all of a sudden the things changing. Well, so the fighters definitely agreed to all the terms and to be clear, none of the terms of this fight are changing. This is strictly a issue between promoters and networks. That's all. It amounts to. Um, Thank Davis won't lose a nickel in these negotiations, Ryan Garcia, it is, but it is between the networks at this point, because if Golden Boy gets their way, a rematch would be on the Zone pay per view. If PBC gets its way, a rematch would be on Showtime pay per view. What I said on Tuesday remains true today. Nobody has shown me or even indicated that exists any kind of paperwork that shows that Golden Boy agreed to allow PBC and Showtime to be the lead promoter. Similarly, there is not any paperwork that says PBC or Showtime agreed to let Golden Boy and Zone take the lead on a rematch. This feels like Kevin and this is more kind of my interpretation of everything, but this feels like both sides kind of assumed that they were going to get their way. Golden Boy assumed that, well, Ryan Garcia wins a spectacular their uh wins by spectacular knockout. Of course we become the a side we will put on the show whereas PBC says, well, look, Tank Davis is a bigger star than Ryan Garcia when it comes to these negotiations where to control everything in all this, it just seems like this was not appropriately discussed before the contracts came, And once the contracts came, that's when Golden Boys said no, no no, no, the redline right through this. We're not ultimately doing it. That. That's the way it feels to me at the moment. I just I just look at it. I go, it makes sense the goal. I agree with Oscar from the standpoint. It makes sense. Whoever wins the fight, your network has to promote that, you know, and put on the next fight. I mean, that just makes the most sense. But even in Oscar's history, right, if you remember I covered the Trinidad de la Hoya fight, which you know it was called the fight of the Millennium. I mean that was a big fight at the time. Right, Why do we even think everything? Why do we have to do put everything in such broad terms? I remember being an s I when De la Hoya versus may Weather was the like to say boxing so and I wrote a callum about your your lead your cover on that. Yeah, No, I mean, it was It's ridiculous right that that was. But the point was that was a massive fight at the time. And after Trinidad one, you know, Don King held a press conference the next day at the Las Vegas Hilton and he's like, flip the deal, flip the deal, and just wanted, you know, all the terms that day he had to go to Trinidad and vice versa, and Oscar was like, no, no, no, this is I'm the A side, you know. So now when you look at it from that standpoint, Chris, it's like he forgot what his personal history was, right, you know. And they never did rematch because of that specific thing. But I think cooler heads prevailed here. I think it's too big of a fight and it's too They're gonna look like, I mean, hey, this is boxing, so but they're gonna look like total jackasses if they don't get this done, especially Oscar. You know, at Lisa al Hayman hasn't been out there or Tom Brown hasn't been out there, uh, talking about what's going to go on. But I think Oscars, you know, all these deadlines and it's all on, it's off. He's gonna look like a fool and I think that, you know, everybody involved in this saying it's I think we'll get it done right. I think it's uh, you know, they're trying to use leverage and and and both sides are trying to do that, and it's the boxing way, and it's one of the reasons why boxing is such a wonderful sport, Chris. And when when you have great fights like this, you leave with an exhilarated feeling. But we have all this freaking nonsense that that's put on by people outside the outside the ring. That just makes you get sick of it. Yeah, there's a lot of games and shipped going on at the moment. PBC and Showtime people are trying to pit Garcia against Golden Boy. Not hard to do, by the way, given their recent history. Um, you know, people trying to getting text messages about trying to get asked Ryan trending on Twitter, like, you know, come on the just stupid. H my take on this, Kevin, just my opinion here. Um. And again, I know I broadcast for the Zone. If you want to think I'm swayed by that, fine I'm not. But PBC and Showtime got everything they wanted in this version of the deal of the of the fight. Everything quite literally everything, Thank Davis is getting the lion's share of the split. PBC Tom Brown lead promoters Showtime. They are the broadcaster, the zone, get some distribution rights, a little bit of money, but Showtime is the broadcaster. If Ryan Garcia wins by knockout or wins anyway and Thank Davis wants a rematch, Golden Boys should get something out of that. Golden Boys should be able to be the lead bro I don't know why this is so complicated, and I think, deep down, deep down a little bit wrong phrase, but I do think that people inside Showtime and probably some people in the PBC world know that, like they know that I understand. Ryan Garcia cannot be treated like he's Andy Ruiz. Ryan Garcia can't be treated like a typical B side where you do everything Ryan Garcia. Look, he's in his next fight. If it's not Tank Davis, he's not gonna make eight million dollars, nine million dollars whatever it is. Thank Davis makes whenever he fights, but probably get three or four Like he's not going to be fighting for six hundred thousand dollars or less. You know, in the next next fight. So it's not like he doesn't have the ability two make a lot of money and make big fights. He wants this fight badly, and you can tell he's out there on social media saying Tank stop htting behind Al Hayman, no rematch clause whatever, But he he will be able to fall back on lucrative opportunities and in fact, well program being one. But I'm sure there are others out there as well. I see. I look at this as being something Tank Davis could solve immediately. All Tank Davis has to do is tell Al Hayman, or tell Tom Brown, or tell people at showtime either take out the rematch clause or I don't give a damn about who shows the rematch because why why should the fighters care? Right? They don't they know? But this is like thing like also, if you're Tank Davis, what do you you have got to be incredibly confident going into a fight against Ryan Garcia. You're gonna be the favorite, Like what do you care about the broadcaster for a rematch that most likely will not happen? Like if Tank Davison don't like you, I think he shouldn't have to worry about it. Yeah, I mean, if you're tak Davis, You're going into this fight think you're gonna win. And I said this the other day. A rematch clause in this particular instance is completely unenforceable, Like there's nothing you can do. All Ryan Garcia would have to do in order to not take a rematch is be like, look, it's contracted at one six and one thirty seven. I can't make that wait anymore. So I'll do the rematch, but it's gotta be up in a hundred and forty pounds, which I can make in a healthy way. There's no else on the line here, Like you can't sue a guy for not being able to make a certain weight. People have tried to compare this to Devon Haney and George Cambosis. Two things are different. One, the broadcast partner was the same for Devin Hany and cambos There was no issue when it comes to promotional or broadcast partner. Loudabella and Top Rank worked hand in hand on all this, no issue whatsoever, And there are belts on the line. So Cambosas got that rematch clause put in in part because he wanted to make no money and in part because it protected him and sort of forced Devon Haney to take a rematch in order to keep those belts. And we know that Devin Hanny loves those belts. He defines himself right now by those belts. So Haney also and this was something that DiBella Cambosis were wary of. After the fight, Haney also could have said, look, one sucked, I can't make it anymore. I'm huge, I'm going to one fort belts. Belts don't matter to me anymore. Anyway you can happened back. He absolutely could have done that and there would have been no financial penalty. So it's kind of the same thing with Ryan, like I don't look at this as being a two fight deal, and I mean and under any circumstances for Ryan Garcia, I think he's taking this fight. He's going back to one thirty six where he doesn't like to be anymore, and then he's up to one forty win or lose after this fight. So the rematch clause, it's almost irrelevance right now for for both sides. And if you think of you know, I wrote about this a little a little while ago, but one of the things I think of boxing is forget about all rematch clauses and forget about mandatories. And when I say forget about mandatories, what ends up happening is you have a fight that you want to get made and there's a mandatory that comes up, and so, uh, one of the you know, the WBC or the w b A or whoever it would be, stops the fight that the public would want to see from happening because they want to enforce their mandatory. And I think if they just changed the rules on mandatories and said something, and I haven't given it a lot of thought recently, but say, you know, you have to fight within one year. You have to fight somebody who's ranked in the top three or the top five and one of the four organizations. And as long as you do that, you remain our champion. Then you can get the fights that you want to have, right And uh, you know, so the heavyweight, you know, everybody's excited about Fury and Music fighting. Whoever becomes the undisputed heavyweight champion, you're gonna all of a sudden have to give up some of the belts because you're gonna be a mandatory. Um, you know, under a wave of four mandatories, and everybody's gonna want to have their piece of the pie. But if they work together to change that and they get rid of rematches, then then unfortunately, and hey, look, let's let's just say if we take a rematch close out of Garcia Davis fight, what happens. If they go out there and they put on a good show, the public will demand a rematch. The public will see it again. And that's when you're gonna do business, if you have a mandatory rematch like like happening. And I understand why it happened in Haney Campbells. Is the public care less about that second fight? Right? Hany showed in the first fight he was the way better fighter. Uh, nobody cared about seeing the rematch again. Everybody a new campbos has had zero shot to win that. But they went through that exercise again because of a moronic rematch clause. Now I understand why it was held because it helped Louda Bella and it helped George Campbosas. But I think a large part in boxing, if you just get rid of that stuff, you're gonna have a better sport and you're gonna get the better fights made more often, and you'll be able to uh, you'll be able to grow the business. And I think that's what we need to see, Chris. We need to see the business grow and not have this bickering and that, you know, That's why I said, hey, I tend to agree that Oscar has an argument about you know, if if Ryan went, but Oscar's yapp and all the time just puts himself in this position. If this was behind closed doors the entire time, I'll bet you would be done right now. Maybe, although both sides, you know, behind closed doors, seem pretty entrenched in this position, to the point where I am very pessimistic at the moment that this fight actually happens. I don't believe that I said this on Tuesday, that Golden Boy would pivot to read just prograde in April. That is just I think that's too tough a fight to just transition to. After Ryan Garcia has been off since July and he's been focused on fighting Tank Davis. I don't think that's gonna happen. But I do think they'll get him back out April fift one way or the other and move on. Right. That's why I think this this fight, it's not lip service. I think this fight is here's one thing to say this, Let's take what to me is the worst case scenario, and they move on from from Tank Davis, and he has the opportunity with Program and he moves on from that. Ryan loses his bully pulpin, right, because right now he's out there. I want to fight. I don't want to rematch. I believe in myself I can beat Tank Davis. Now if he then turns around and says and use the argument that you just made, Hey, I haven't fought since last July, racious Program is too tough of an opponent, all of a sudden, you're losing that. You know, Hey, I have the moral high ground here. I'm willing to fight. We've agreed to a deal. Let's go and and I think he loses that. And he hasn't had the big win. Hey, you know what, you can debate Tank Davis's resume. And I don't think Tank Davis has been challenged, you know, significantly in his career. But he has a lot more significant you know, fights are tougher fights than Ryan has. Right. I believe in Ryan Garcia as a fighter. I think he's a tremendous talent. I think he can do a lot of things. But I think, you know, you have to look and say Tank has This is not often in the high end of these fighters, Tank has faced the better opposition. I don't know. I don't know about that. I don't know if I agree with that. I think it's well, look, look it's first of all, he's four years younger than Tank, so he hasn't had as many opportunities over his career. But that's not a matter who is he fought. I would put Luke Campbell up there against Tank's best win, which was what fights right, which is a very good win, and he dominated one by knockout. But since then, since then, it hasn't been He's been a like a double digit favorite in most of his fights. I know, I agree with that, So I said that. I prefaced my comment by saying that he fought you know, you know Mayweather promotions. Why. I don't want to say maybe other promoters. I want to say TBC, you know Al Hayman, they protected him and they gave him, you know, and from a you know, business standpoint, if it was you or I and we say, hey, let's take the easier job for the most money. Duh, Yeah, that's what we're gonna do. And of money, a ton of money in the last years. But you're in a professional sport where it's entertainment and you're trying, you know, and that it's said a slightly different. You know, if you're a sports writer or you're a mechanic or well, you're gonna take the job the page of the most money for the least amount of work. But if you want to create a legacy for your often maybe he doesn't you know, as an athlete, then that you have to seek God those fights. So but in any event, I just think that Ryan, you know, loses if he if he would pass on a Tank DA I mean on a both Tank Davis and then on Region I would agree it would be a tough I just think that's what I'm not saying. I agree with it. I think that's what Golden Boy would do. I don't I do not believe they would put him in like the regious program in in April. I think, look, clearly Golden Boy is trying to protect its television partner, which it has. The television part has invested a lot of money, So isn't Al Hayman. He's trying to protect his relationship with his television partner, which is right now, the only game in town for PBC. Like Fox is out, Showtime is still in. They are the provider of PBC fights. They pay these guys a lot of money, so he's trying to protect that relationship. Both these motors are trying to do the exact same thing. So I just I just think the reason I sway, the reason I understand where Golden Boys coming from is the old Ryan doesn't have a rematch clause. It's just Tank. The only way that fight would be at the point where it would be forced the rematch that Ryan wins and does something, probably does something spectacular, in which case he goes way up there. He's skyrockets after that because he's already a star. He would become a huge star if he's able to beat Tank David. So well, there's three there's three things, Chris say. You can look at it and whether Ryan win. You know that he wins the fight by decision, but people disagree with the decision. It was, you know, kind of an in fight, right, he could he could win by early knockout, what you think would zoom him up. But I think if you win by you know, you just land one punch and you get him. You know, people say, hey, Tank got caught. You know, he didn't really prove it, right. But if he goes and he comprehensively beats him, he's the head on the score cards after seven, eight rounds and he stops him with a big shot and you know in the ninth something like that. That. So all three of those scenarios are different and play out differently for Ryan Garcia going forward. Yeah. Um, look, we discussed this right at the top. I think the simplest solution is take out the rematch clause. And if it's a tremendous flight, the public is going to demand the rematch anyway, and we know they've already agreed to certain splits, so we know it wouldn't be that hard to cobble back together. For now, with only what two months away from the fight date, forget about it, take it out, let's move on and let's get this fight ultimately done. All right, Let's talk about Ghanadi Golofkin, who's career path right now, Kevin is very much unclear. Uh. Ghanati Golofkin back in September lost at one to Canelo Alvarez. After the fight, he said, I'll be back. I'm coming back down to one sixty. I've still got he said, three titles, but he really has two major ones and I'm gonna be back next year. UH. Since then, we have not heard anything from Ghanati Golofkin until this week when it was learned that Ghannati intends to or has dropped his IBF title UH in an effort to not be forced into a fight UH with Falcoa, who is the number one contender for that belt at one sixty. I understand why. There's no real money in it, why would you want to do it? But now Golofkin is faced with another mandatory with w b A ordering a purse bid for his mandatory title defense against aris Landy Laura, who is the secondary title holder at w b A, which Kevin presents the exact same problem. Like Arisland Laura, Arislina Laura is a more known commodity, but there's no real money in it. For Gallofkin. Is the kind of fight that dies if it's put on pay per view. So I'm struggling to understand what his options are. I've talked to some people that know him in the last couple of days. I've heard the plan is tentatively to have him return at some point this summer. But if he's not going to fight Laura, he's going to return this summer as a zero belt title holder, which, again, if you're Gonnadi Golofkin, it's not the biggest deal in the world. You're Gonnadi Golofkin. People want to see you fight. They don't necessarily care about what titles you have. But I'm a little confused at the moment, Kevin about what gat he's doing here. It's gonna be one years old in April. Uh, he says he wants to continue. I think there's still a market from continue. He didn't embarrass himself against Canelo Alvarez, and you know, he was the unified champion at Won sixty just a couple of days ago. But do you what's your take and how do you interpret ganas moves over the last couple of days and what his future might hold. Well, I think ever since he changed his team, right, you know his you can question his career, right, I mean, you know he went through all those you know fights that in Middleway before Cannelo. I mean he should have been after Cannello right away, but he wanted to keep the Middleway titles. You know what did he do? Zara Metta? And I forgot in the order of the fights that he did, but you know, he did some bad fights, and you know he's you go back other than the recent Cannello fight, Look who he fought over the last four years. I mean, nobody's right, really, nobody's And I don't understand what you know, they are thinking in terms of how they want to push him. Now. Is there any big name out there that would, you know, other than Charlo right that that would have made big sense for him over that period of time. But I just think that that you know, his new quote unquote new team hasn't done him any favors, and I don't think he's sent himself any favors. And I think that to me, the best for Kalof can just forget, especially when you've got a w B a bell, especially a w A belt, forget about it. Like you know, you're people are gonna think you're a world champion, you're a future Hall of Fame fighter. I don't think there's any question about that. Go out there and find an entertaining fight that people are gonna want to see and that they're gonna like, and hey, let's do it right. And I think that that's something that, you know, would make a heck of a lot of sense. And you know what what is that? Like? What is that fight? Because Golden Boys reached let me just say real quick, Golden Boys reached out about Monia multiple times, but they've tried to make that fight and at least that has that could potentially be entertaining. I don't disagree, but like, I think that would have some entertainment value. There's some money in it, and there's a story, right, you know two thousand and eighteen, Mongia was rejected. Here he comes former champ at whatever. I'm not saying it's a great fight, but there's a story there. Jamal Charlo also has reached out. He's camp about fighting like that. That's actually an intriguing fight if Charlo can get down to one sixty for that fight. Other than that, I mean, do you have other ideas? I don't. I was just gonna I was gonna throw a name match and that's kind of crazy, but you gotta listen to it. And I think it would make sense um Earl Spence if the if the fight with Crawford does not get made. Spence is a big guy and I think Spence could fit, you know, if he came in at one fifty eight right, Gnati has never been the biggest middleweight. Um, you know, I think Spence is a good fighting you now you're talking, you're fighting one of the elite fighters in the world, and we'll see what Kennatia Lufkin has nix And I think that would be a lot of interest in that fight because you would have it, Hey, can Naro Spence handle the power of a guy that's proven to be a knockout artist in middleway? And on the other hand, you know, can Kennati Goloft can still compete with the elite fighters who were in their prime. There's a lot of questions would be in a fight like that. So if they don't get the Crawford fight done, I think that gives you know, Errol Spence a really good fight, um, you know. And I to me like that is a kind of opponent and that's the outside the box thinking. You've got to you know, go with UM to me like, there's hey, if he if he fought ARIZLANDI Laura. You know, Laura had a good, uh you look good in his last fight, But I mean who you know who was the opposition, right, And so you have to just sit here and say the public is not going to really be that excited about it. ARIZLANDI, Laura fight and it's Goodlfkin gonna take you know, short money when he's running out of fights, right, I don't know that he's going to do that. So to me, think outside the box. And look like I mentioned Charlo at the top when we first started talking about this, and I think that's certainly a viable opponent for him. But if if you can't get Charlo, I think Errol Spence presents an interesting option that and I think that would be something if Spence had, you know, how to present it to him, he might be interesting. Look, maybe it's not Jamal Charlo. Maybe it's Jamal Charlo comes up from and his first fight takes on Ganada Gilofta and what could be kind of a king making performance for malt Those are interesting options. I just like I'm going to continue to believe that Errol Spence is targeting Keith Thurman in May. That seems to be the way it's trending, at least in terms of where it's going. Jamal Charlo is out for the next month or so, at least while he overcomes that hand injury. Then he has to decide if he's gonna stay at one fifty four and fight the winner of Tim Zoo against Tony Harrison. I just don't know what, like in the next five months. What does Ganati Golofkin do at this point, I don't know. I don't know where he goes and what he wants to do. And the clock is ticking. Liket is forty one. You know, father time catches up to everybody. At some point, he's gonna have to decide if he wants to fight or if he wants to just kind of sit out and hope a big money opportunity comes in the second half of the year. Now, you know, you look at Gnati christ and you over his career, he's been a big draw when he's been a strong B side, right when he was the B side, Uh, some of these guys he did really good numbers, but he's never been a big draw as the A side, right, So you know, he's gone out there and I think you know, you go from that Steve Rolls fight forward and they've picked the incorrect opponent almost every single time, right. I think they've made a lot of mistakes on on who they've picked, and so he it's less, it's boxed him in. He's like stuck in a corner right now, and uh, you know, and he has expectations. He's saying, hey, I made X, Y and Z to fight. You know these guys, Now, why all of a sudden am not getting it? And I think you know that this is a guy and you gotta blame him too. I mean, he's the one to put this team together and brought Elena involved and in the whole nine yards and the new group that's that's running things for him. But I I think that, you know, Canady is a guy that still has some star power that people want to see, but they don't want to see him fighting mandatories and they don't want to see him fighting you know, sea level opposition, and there's not a lot of a level opposition out there. It's not two thirteen. He's not just breaking into the US boxing scene where fights against guys like Prokes and Daniel Gil and Curtis Stevens are are interesting at this point. And he also has significant pay expectations because whatever he thought about that recent TV deal he had, uh, it paid him a lot of money. He made a lot of money to fight over in Japan against Ryota Murata. He made a ton of money to fight Canelo Alvarez in the third fight. There's a fraction of that out there right now for some of these these fights, a fraction of it um. So he's got to look for that big money fight. Maybe PBC can put together a Jamal Charlotte or Jamal Charlot fight. Maybe, you know, Golden Boy can get his zone interested in Gallofkin against Mongia. I don't know, but it's very tough to see how he moves forward as a middleweight champion, at least because the w b A they always changed their mind. I know they're not the most reliable organization for sure, but if they're gonna follow through on this purse bid, well that's what it is. He's gonna have to decide. You know. The problem with Mona to me is like four years ago, I like that fight. I was pushing, you know, not not when it was rejected by the Nevada Athletic commission. But right after that, you know, hey, Munkia look like a good prospect and a guy, but they have you know, you talk about a protected fighter. I mean, this guy is the might be the most protected high writer in the sport. He has fought absolute stiffs and so now it's coming back to haunt him. So you've got two guys like, you know, if you push Monkey against him, like you know, at one point I would have made an argument from Monkey, Hey, this guy, you know, he deserves his opportunity. He's you know, he's looked good in these other fights. Now he's up, he's making a step out fight to Kennetica Lucan. But how do I, in good conscience reward a guy that I want to say, Hey, I want to reward this guy by giving him a fight against the legend of the sport where he's going to make this huge money for fighting bums. And that's that's pretty much what he's done. Yeah, he could have fought to Meetris Andreid any point time over the last three years. That would have been a very good fight, a relevant fight, a middleweight title fight. He didn't do it. Had some bad luck last year to a certain degree in that the Jamal Charlot fight got blown up, you know, when those negotiations were going on, and not that Shane Moseley Jr. Would have been a great fight, but Moses Junior, No, but it was. It would have been better than some of the guys he had fought that he did wind up fighting, you know last time, who were just complete walkovers. I'm with you completely. Mongia has to face somebody relevant. Uh. I've talked about this at length, so I don't need to go back into it. But they are interested in a Bevil fight. I don't know if that's able to be you know, cobbled together in the next you know, month or so, but that would be interesting. But Golofkin, to me would be the most interesting money fight for both guys. Um And we'll see, we'll see if Gay Golofkin wants to do something like that. All Right, A couple of the things I want to talk about. Anthony Joshua back in London this week for the press conference to announce his comeback fight against Jermaine Franklin. I look, I have no issue with the Franklin fight. The guys lost two fights in a row. He's been fighting at a high level for a while. Uh. If he wants to get back in fight three times this year and have one of them be Jermaine Franklin, who acquitted himself off solidly in that loss to Dillian White, fine, get back out there. It's not a pay per view. More power to you on on that one. But the question I have is ken Anthony Joshua's career as an elite heavyweight be revived. He is now on his what third trainer in as many fights, Derrick James is taking over A j is doing absolutely the right thing by taking his act to Texas and going down to Derrick James Jim and working out there, getting out of the UK where he is an enormous celebrity and going to Texas where nobody knows who he is. They probably know exactly exactly the Texans or whoever down there, so he may he's making the right move. The question is is Derrick James the right guy? You have? You have Carvered Derrick James, phenomenal trainer, Trainer of the year a couple of years ago at least trains Errol Spence, trains from Melcharlo, a lot of experience. Is he the right guy? For Anthony Joshua, I love the choice. Um if it were me, and I wrote this in a column a while back when he chose Garcia, I think Stephen bred Man Edwards would have been the guy that I think would have been great for I think Derrick James is a really good trainer and can get the best out of Joshua. I think, you know what we've seen from Joshua really is that is two things. You know, I'm not going to rip him for the Music fight because Music is a phenomenal boxer, a really good boxer and a really tough guy. And so you know, when you're a big guy that's been used to blasting out, you know, opponents, and now all of a sudden, you've got a guy that's tricky, can move, he's got a good job. You know, that's a tough ask, right and you know, and Music showed a lot of grit. I thought Joshua was better in the second fight than he was in the first fight. But I think the two things that a j is missing, you know, is I think he has to rely on that job. His job is a power punch, and he has to have that job like a piston. And when you think of, you know, Larry Holmes's job. I think A j could it does have a job like that, except that he doesn't use it that often, right, But when he throws it, it's you know, it's an impact punch. It really makes a difference and it sets other things up for him. And then number two, I think aggression. Can Derrick James bring aggression out of him? I mean, I think he tends to fight. I think he remembers that first Andy Rui's fight, which is the worst thing in boxing. You have to have a short memory. You're a great fighter, you're I don't want to say he's a Hall of famer, but the potential hall of famer um. And you have to go out there and sit there and say, Okay, I am going to find a way to win this fight, and I'm gonna impose my will on this guy, even though that guy is a good fighter. And so I think Derrick James is going to be good at getting him to throw combinations to create angles. I hope he getting to use that job. So I think it's a good choice. But I think A j can be back. I think he could be right at the absolute top. It's gonna be tough for him to beat the two guys at the top right in in terms of Wilder and Fury, because they have far better boxing skills than him. And then you look at the Deontay Wilder fight, which would be a phenomenal fight. He cannot box Deonte Wilder, but can He survived Deontay Wider catching him on the chin, and that is an intrigue, a really intriguing fight. And you know, I love Deontay Wilder Joshua as a potential uh fight. You know, I think that would be phenomenal. But I think, you know, to answer your question, I think Derek is a good choice and a J can get back at or near the top. I think the question I have is can Derek James change a J's mindset? You know, can he turned him back into the fighter he was before the Vladimir Klitschko fight, because Vladimir Klitchko and that performance changed everything. You know, It's not the Andy Ruiz fight that changed Anthony Joshua. It's going to war with Vladimir Klitschko and taking a lot of punches and getting knocked down the way he did. He wound up winning spectacularly. But I mean others of report this. I have reported this, but he went to his team after that fight and said, I don't want to fight this way anymore, like I don't want to be in these knockdown, drag out wars. And he's fought with that mindset in most subsequent So can Derek James get into the head of Anthony Joshua and say, look, I understand it's the hit and don't get hit business for sure, but sometimes you gotta take one shot to deliver too. And that's the kind of change I'm wondering if I'm going to see with Anthony Joshua. Well, I think look at the way you know, Derrick James fighters, UH fight Frank Mark Martineau and uh and Spence and you know, and I think he can right. And I think the thing is that sometimes fighters have the thing I want to land, uh take two to land one as opposed to know land to to take one right. And I think there Derek is gonna be able to get him. I believe, to get in inside of him and say, hey, how you know you can you can do this, You can fight. You know, you may get hit, you know back, but as long as you're landing the big shots guys are gonna be backing away from you because you have so much power, and he has to show him how much power he has. And I think if he does that, then you know a J believes it in his home mind that he you know, these other guys are gonna be afraid of his power. And I think it goes back to what I said at the beginning. It all starts with the job. If you are banging and firing that job, uh, and he's got a power to have. George Foreman had that job right when George Foreman was so low as molasses. That jab hurt guys, right, you know they saw it coming and he hurt guys. And I think a J is more athletic now than George was when he won the title from Michael Moore. And a J can do better than that. I think a J, you know, it's quick. You know, he's for a big guy's really agile. And I think if he commits to that job more than anything else, you blind somebody and you bring that right hand behind it, you know you're gonna you have the punching power to make yourself a big factory. I think the plan for a J. Is the right one at the moment too. I mean Jermaine Franklin, I don't expect him to get knocked out early the way Charles Martin did. But he's not heavy handed. No matter what Dmitri Selida says, he doesn't have as fast hands as Andrew Louise. That's not the case. Um and very fast hands. So I think fighting him now is smart. I think a summertime matchup with Dillian White is smart. That's a big domestic fight. He can make a lot of money. And the Dillion White I saw against Jermain Franklin is not the threat that he used to be. The guy has been knocked out a couple of times in the last couple of years or a few years. He's on the way out. So I think these are two fights where Anthony Joshua can get that confidence back. He may say he's always confident. I don't believe it. I think he needs to get that confidence back with two two fights, two wins, and then go into the last part of this year looking at that Deonte Wilder fight or looking at a Tyson Fury fight, that that would put him in a position to at least be mentally physically all the way there when it comes to his own skill set. All right, last thing for you, I want to tap your m M A knowledge for a moment, because the Francis Nagandhu sweepstakes is white hot right now for boxing sweepstakes. We'll call off that Deontay wild They're the latest top heavyweight to come out and say he wants a piece of Frances Naganda. Wilder has suggested a two fight deal where I believe while they would get into the cage in that second fight, I'm so sure about that. But now Kevin, We've got Tyson Fury saying he wants to fight Naganu, and he Hearn saying he wants Naganu for Joshua, and now Deontay Wilder saying he wants to Gando. I put on record saying Frans Nagano's boxing career is a one off. He is a one and done in the boxing space, because you and I both know if he goes up against the top heavyweight boxer, he's done. It's it's it's not gonna go well for Frances Naganu. Just Franklin, No, I don't think so either. People have said, like, why does he fight Derek Tore at a warm up fight. Dirk beats him, That's why he beats him. Don't fight Dirk just all or at a warm up, right, Chris, I wrote a column what two weeks ago about this, and I looked at his options and and I said, you know, so he wants to make huge money to fight in boxing, but are you gonna pay him? When the Connor McGregor Mayweather fight came out, what people forget about was Connor McGregor had sold I think it was four or five events in a row, over a million pay per views and over several of more over one point six million pay per views um. And so that you know there was made sense to have a fight, right, You look at what Mayweather was doing, and the public wanted to see it. And from a competitive standpoint, you and I both knew no now, and we knew before the fight that it was a joke, right, that Connor had no chance, just as if it was an m M A fight, Floyd would have had a chance. Right, Connor would have dented his head and Floyd would have walked out like, you know, looking like somebody like a guardgoyle or something. And if you think if you think that boxers because you don't have a lot of experience or a lot of examples of boxers in the cage. I encouraged people to go back and watch James Tony fighting in Boston. I was there for that fight. Cage, that fight. Oh my god, he had no chance. He got taken to the ground. Would he fight? Uh? Brand? He got taken to the ground in like the great heavyweights of that time? Which is which? Which is what you know? The gand who was going to do in boxing? Like it's in and Nigano is a very good heavyweight, at least the top heavyweight at the time in UFC, like it would go disastrously for any boxer who gets in the cage with the top of it. Yeah, I mean, Francis is a powerful hitter, um, but he's not gonna have the kind of power that a j has or Deonte has. You know, I don't even think he hits his heart on a regular basis as Tyson Fury does. You know, maybe he does, but I don't think so. Right, But then you look at it and he's gonna just get a box silly, right, It's not even I mean, I think if you put the fight in the United States. Let's say what Andy Foster in California approved that fight. I would say probably not would Jeff Mullen and Nevada approved that fight, you know, Uh Francis against one of those three guys were talking about. I don't think they would, so that Nevada didn't. I mean Neva improved approved Mayweather McGregor. Right, they did, but now they learned. And also it's a different executive director now and a different and a different commit And I think you know that this fight has to go to the Middle East, right, I would think, right, that's where they're going to get the kind of money. Like Tyson Fury can't come to the US, So if it's Fury, it's going somewhere over there. Um, and Francis thinks he's going to get the money. But look, francis Is headline is a two or three pay per views. He headlined of pay per view against Cyril Gone, he headline of pay per view against steep A well too against step Am. So he's been in three UFC pay per view cards and they've all done in the three hundred to three hundred fifty thousand range. So who is out there like M M A. Fans weren't buying Francis and Gano fights in huge numbers. Boxing fans don't know who the hell he is and they know he doesn't have a chance, so God bless him. I I want to see him make the money, but who's gonna pay him? So maybe there's somebody in the Middle East. It's stupid that and it has forty million dollars or thirty million dollars to throw away, and that they've done it before that will pay him that. But I just don't find it um very likely. Chris, and I think if he does, like you said, a million percent agree, it's a one and done. He's gonna get destroyed. He's gonna you know, and he's with thirty seven years old, thirty six thirty seven years old, so it's not like he's got a long career here. Look well, look, I do think the Middle East would be interested in that fight. I think the Middle East is not, and I'm talking specifically about the United Arab Emirates and I'm talking about Saudi Arabia. I don't get the sense that they're looking to do like live golf type events with boxing where they're doing six seven a year. I think they're looking to do big time events, and Naganu against a top heavyweight is a big time events. So I do think the money would be there for that fight. I'd take while they're out of this because I don't you know, PBC doesn't do fights over in the Middle East, and I don't think they have their relationships or infrastructure to necessarily do it. So if you're Naganu, you like after April, when AJ is gonna fight, and presumably Tyson Fury is gonna fight, you tell Frank Warren and you tell Eddie Hearn to send in your bids. You give like treated like a purse bit you get. You send in a piece of paper with a number on it for me to fight your guy, and I'll do it. Either way, he's gonna lose. Like you can say, maybe he's got a better chance against AJ because a J has been dropped and knocked out before. Uh whatever, He's still gonna lose that fight one way or the other. Maybe a J knocks him out because he has a little bit more one punch power than Tyson Fury. But you have to maximize this. You've got to make every nickel off this you possibly can. So say to Eddie, say to frank what do you got for me? I'm ready to go in August of this year. I'll take the I'll fight the biggest bidder and their fighter out there. So the question would become when when that happens, is what does the A side get? So the A side is obviously going to be the boxer whoever it is, right, um, And so if you're gonna pay Francis, let's use the figure thirty million, because I know he's used at phrase at some point in the past. If you say Francis Is could get thirty million, what are you gonna pay Tyson Fury, who, who, if the fight happens, would be the undisputed heavyweight champion at that point. So you're gonna bring the heavyweight champion in the world into a fight against the guy who's never had a pro boxing match, and you're gonna pay that guy thirty million Tyson Fury? What is he's gonna ask for a hundred fifty million? I mean he may, but like I think Tyson Fury would ultimately take the maximum possible offer you would get because he knows this is easy work, Like this is the easiest pay day he's ever going to get. Same thing with Anthony Joshua. He's gonna make well in excess of thirty forty million to do that fight. Just take it, man, have an easy day at the office. I think Tyson Fury would carry Nagano for for a while, like I think he, you know, have a little bit of fun with it early on, because look, as big a hitter as Nagano is in UFC, he's just not going to be that kind of puncher in boxing with bigger gloves. And he throws so wild at times too, that Fury's gonna see all that coming. This is this is not a puncher's chance situation in my opinion. Well, and yeah, and he remembers, see because of m m A. Because of what they have to defend and how they have that so they have their punchers come from different angles, right, and and it's not going to be the same, you know, type of thing. And he can't set things up with kicks, and he can't set things up with a threat of takedown. Like when you have a threat of a takedown when you're fighting a guy that's a wrestler that has good boxing and m m A that makes you're boxing so much better. Francis you know now you know doesn't have that going into a So Tyson Fury or Anthony Josh with Deante Water do not worry, have to worry about getting taken down. All they gotta worry about it staying out of the way of his right hand. And I just think he's gonna be slower. He's not going to be a sise um and wearing Like you say, what is the percentage that is wearing a ten ounce glove compared to a four ounce club? How much is that going to diminish his power? That's going to diminish it? White quite quite a lot um, you know. So I I think that it's um, it's sad, you know, but France, frances would be better off finding an m m A gig. But even then he doesn't have a lot of choice in M M A because of the two main companies who can pay. I don't think he's better off with him. I think he should do this, just go into it. No, and you're gonna lose. Just do athletes think that? Of course not the gand who's gonna think in his head that he's got half a chance That's why, like my gut feeling is that it's Fury. You know, Fury, if he beats you sick undisputed champion going up against the UFC heavyweight champion. There's a lot of money potentially in that. And if you're someone representing the gandu and I I don't even know he's doing that at this point, but if you're someone repping the GANDU, um better chance of him not getting hurt against Tyson Fury than a j or Deontay Wilder, Like Fury might decide to like box him and you can walk away from a fight like that saying, look, I want the distance with the heavyweight champion of the world, like at least there's you know, let's let's say that let's rank them into three the order that would be the safest and the riskiest. With for Francis, I think, you know, Fury would be the safest. The riskiest is gonna be Deontay because you know, hey, he might have a chance to you know, Deontay not be in the boxer that the other two guys are. You know, he might have a chance to hit Deontay, although I doubt that, right, I don't want I don't want Deontay thinking that I'm saying Francis Connor is gonna beat him, because I absolutely am not. But if he has a chance to land flush on any one of those three guys, Deontay would be the guy, right. But it's the riskier for Francis because I think Wilder is one of the hardest punchers in the history of boxing. And you're gonna tell me that you as a non defensive boxing fighter, Francis relies on offense. You're gonna go out there and you're gonna let yourself get hit by this guy. And he he had Fury in trouble. Let alone, France think against one of the greatest heavyweight pure boxers of all time, Deontay Wilders still caught him three times in two fights, right like the last two fights? Uh right, twice in the first right, so five times total in in their matchups Um and Tyson. Fury has a great head movement. Nicato is not gonna have great head movement in that fight. It's gonna be a sitting duck and Deanta is gonna find it and he's gonna knock him out. So yeah, I'm with you, Fury A J Wilder, and that's frankly the order i'd put in most likely at this point, I'd say fury A. J. Wilder is is where I'd go. Read Kevin stuff over at Yahoo Sports. Follow Kevin on Twitter at Kevin Kevin. Good to talk to you, my man. Thanks, brother, Good to talk to you as well. And when we come back, my conversation with Oshaqi Foster. All right, Oh, Shacky Foster is a hundred and thirty pound contender. On February eleven, you will attempt to win his first world title. He takes on Ray Vargas at the Alamodome in San Antonio. It's a fight you could watch live on showtime. And Oshacky joins me on the show. So let's start with the obvious question here, Oshacky, how is it that someone comes by the name Oshacky? I honestly don't honestly don't know. I just know. I just know. It was supposed to be Oceanique. Uh, it was supposed to be Oceanick. But uh uh they they spelled it wrong on my birth certificate. So I honestly don't even know the back story about it. Wait, but they spelled it wrong on your birth certificate? Yeah, it was supposed to be spelled Oceani, but they ended up spelling the oshocky. Like I said, I didn't even know it was. I didn't even know it was a shock until my first fight. You know, they just and they announced me as O shock I was thinking they missed up my name, but uh, on birth certificate, that's what it was spelled, like, I never heard that. I've been following you for a couple of years now, I never heard that version of Yeah, it's crazy. Like everybody from my hometown know me as oh Sneak and know me as neak, but everybody in the boxing wheld know me's shocked as oh Shocky. So it's just it was kind of weird to them. They're like, you know, we thought your name was Oschnik. You know, so it's kind of crazy. So you're standing there in the ring, eight years old and you're introduced as oh Shocky and you just kind of looking around going the way that was a mistake. Now, I got mad at my coaches. I'm like, yo, they spent my I mean, they said my name wrong, you know. So it was just one of those things. So you grew up in the Orange, Texas area, Um, how did you get into boxing? Uh? I used to I used to watch it a lot, you know, in my in my pop script when I was younger. But um, I followed my older cousin to the chymp him and him and a couple of my friends that was around the round A neighborhood. It was always older than me, but uh, you know, I just wanted to see what they was up to. And uh, you know, we all we all had our first fights and everything on the same day and I'm the only one that won, So it was it was just kind of crazy for me. Yeah. And then I know you had, like a lot of people issues with the Olympic boxing program. You you thought you were gonna earn a spot. Wasn't that two thousand and twelve team? Is that what how it played out? Twelve team? Yeah? Yeah, what was that? You fought Jojo Diaz the qualifiers, right, Yeah, we fought in the findals. Um, A lot of people thought I won, but they gave it to him about three points. So it was it was crushed my dreams a little bit. But I really I never really I didn't know how big what the Olympics was like. Um, now I grew up watching like the world champion. So I always wanted to be a world champion. But um, I felt like I didn't take that opportunity. Uh serious enough. I was seventeen at the time when I qualified. I think I was sixteen. Uh so yeah, yeah, And and like that's a difference between you know, when you decided to go pro, like two different paths. Like if even if you don't win a medal, if you're an Olympian, you got promoters and managers and people trying to sign you. When when even if, I mean, you came this close to being that olympian, but I'm guessing it was a lot more difficult for you to get noticed by my key people, right right, And I was so like stuck in my ways. I didn't even go Like I didn't even go help the Olympic team. I didn't go to the Olympics. And I had a chance to do all that because I was the I was the awesome I just like, you know, they robbed me forget that I'm done with amateur boxing. Uh So it was it was, you know, I didn't I definitely didn't know how big. I didn't realize how big the opportunity was. At the time. Do you regret that, Yeah, for sure, because I didn't. Like I said, I didn't, I didn't take the opportunity. Actually I was. I was training hard for it, um and then I was forced to come back to my hometown. Uh, I was forced to come back to my hometown, and as soon as I got back to my hometown, I turkeed right back into you know, the bad stuff. And I didn't even go into that. I went into the trials like I wouldn't even you know, like I said, I didn't even take it serious. And I still went to the finals and did what you know, was altunate. But I definitely regret not taking that opportunity like I was supposed to. So what are those first few years like for you as a pro. You win some fights early on, but then it's like, what fifteen sixteen, you lose two out of three, Like what are you thinking about boxing at that point? I really didn't because in the beginning, like like you said, I didn't have any big promoters. I from a small city just wasn't really I was fighting on small shows, weren't really making any money, so you know, I just really didn't see the the the big picture of it, you know, and the first lost, like we didn't have no gairman the city. I wouldn't even I wouldn't even really like prepared like I was supposed to, you know, no excuses, you know, but that it was just all that in one So what what changed for you? What what turned things around for you as a boxer? I just moving away from my hometown. Um, getting with a team that that that we was on the same page, that fully believed in me. And uh and that's all around with the manager, the trainers and everything like that. You know. Uh, I never was in the beginning of my career. I was. I wasn't never in that position, you know, to be able to choose my team, choose to manage. It was always strown in my face, you know. So it was that kind of kind of situation. And could you feel yourself, you know, kind of improving over those years, you know, especially in these last couple of years where you beat Alberta Makado somebody I just saw this past weekend, Um, you know fighting you beat Miguel Roman. Could you feel yourself kind of growing as a fighter, Yeah, most definitely. UM. I knew after I had went to Pennsylvania and beat. Um, I forget the guy's name when I went to Pennsylvania and then the dad but daheah. Yeah. Then right after that, I went right to John Fernandez, so I knew, I knew it was. It was a different, It was a different for me. Um, you're going into this fight somewhat inactive. You know, you fought at the end of the NBC series, got one fight in two I know you're dealing with some promotional issues along the way, but like, how how sharp do you feel going into this fight because you're going up against the guy that that's pretty sharp, at least that the way class right below you. I feel like, man, I'm I'm sharp. I feel like I'm ready to go. Uh. It's crazy because we both we both only fought one time in two and and I think he had a two year layoff two and and things like that. So um, I definitely feel sharp. I feel like the layoff it just helped my body get get get more rest and and I never stopped training, so I got sharper, you know, sharpened up my twols things like that. So I wasn't I don't feel like it's gonna be a problem. You've been trying to get fights like this for for a few years. How tough was it to to kind of land? You know, one of these kind of opportunities. You know, social media has made it made it made it easy it for guys to Doug made it easier for guys to to to to you know, avoid some of the best fighters. But um, I just knew if I stayed patient and I stayed um beating these guys that they put in front of me, that they would have no choice. When you look at Vargas, like, how tough a fight is this for you? Vargus that won six was I really be a really big guy? Now he's at one thirties that how do you look at Vargas? I feel like he used to smaller guy coming up. He's always been a bigger guy in the ring. Um, I feel like that's what it helped him a lot, you know, being a bigger guy, the taller guy. Um, I'm used to that. John Fernandez was five beleving if I could if the guy fought uh Costa Rica, he was like five ten. But I'm used to fighting tall guys. Uh ho s far guys. That's all the way up to sixty eight. UM. So, I I feel like it's it's I'm the bigger guy naturally, um. But and that he's a two time world champion everything. I don't take nothing away from him. I feel like it's gonna be one of the biggest tests in my life. Does this Does a world title feel at all to you? Almost like a second chance at the Olympics in a way, It's like the Olympics would have opened a lot of doors for you. Like we talked about a world championship, we'll kind of do the same thing if if you win that title all of a sudden, you know, there's a lot of possibilities at one thirty and other weight classes. Does it feel at all similar? Yeah, most definitely. But the difference is I'm not letting this opportunity go over my head. I'm I'm prepared, I'm ready. Uh. I've been fully focused on one of this um since, you know, for the longest. Now, you know, definitely feel like it's it's the It's the same opportunity, but bigger. Well Jack you Good luck to you, man. I you really jumped off the screen in that last NBC Fight Night appearance. That was a real coming out party. I think for you. I'm glad to see you uh getting this opportunity man to get a world title shot at one thirty. Good luck on the eleventh when we come back. This week's picks brought to you by Fan Duel, Well football fans. Fan Duel has the perfect way for everyone to get in on the Super Bowl fifty seven action with a no sweat same game parlay that means everyone gets bonus bets back if you're super Bowl s GP doesn't hit. It doesn't matter if you're new to Fan Duel or you already have an account. Same Game parlays like you combine all your favorite bets for a chance at a bigger payday. So start building your own or just bet a popular s GP already made for you in America's number one sports book. You can bet quarterback over rushing yards, running back anytime, touchdown, wide receiver over under receptions. Whatever you want, you can bet it with Fandel. If you're new to Fandel, sign up with my promo code promo code boxing when you download the app. I know football boxing a little bit different, but use the promo code boxing. Either way, you'll get bonus bets back if You're no sweat, same game, parlay doesn't hit make every moment more with fan Duel, official sports book partner of the NFL. Time now for this week's picks, brought to you by fan Duel. This week, I am locked in on the Showtime card Ray Vargus, O'shacky Foster vacant thirty pound title fight. This is a very competitive fight. Vargas a former two division world champion O'shacky Foster. He is someone that's popped onto the national radar over the last couple of years, shown great power, very very very good fighter. Right now, Rave Vargas is a slight favorite. He is minus one fifty two O'shacky Foster app plus one twenty. I like Rave Vargus in this fight. It is Vargas moving up in weight to thirty pounds. He still is a hundred twenty six pound title holder. But Vargas is big long. I think he's gonna fill out that frame really well. And as we saw when he fought Mark mcsioh, he just is a really good boxer and I think he's a little bit better as a boxer than O'shacky Foster. Who's best way to win I think is going to be power Ray Vargas by decision or points that's at plus one oh five. I'm taking that as well. I think he just wins. What's not gonna be a lopside of decision, but I think a unanimous decision against Oshacky Fosger. So take Ray Vargas to win, Take Rave Vargus to win by decision. Those are my picks, brought to you by FanDuel. That's it for this week's episode. By thanks to Kevin Ioli and OSHACKI Foster for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you download podcast, and I'll see you next week. Two