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That was my moments now with interviews, analysis and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix. All right, Kevin Iolie is here, senior combat sports writer, boxing writer over at Yahoo Sports. He is joining me from Las Vegas, but from I'm sure Kevin is going to be boarding a flight for Dubai soon to check out the Floyd Mayweather DEGI Showdown No Doubt out in the United Arab Emirates. I'll give this to Floyd Kevin. He was masterful as a businessman during his active years, and he is masterful as a businessman during his retired years. He keeps taking on these no hopers making seven figures. You know, who knows what to believe and how much does He's making seven figures and just like getting workouts in and seeing the world. It's it's the greatest retirement story that's ever been written, I think, or at least in boxing. There's a lot of people that said, oh, when Floyd retires, he's gonna be broke and he's not gonna have any money. And I'll tell you what, you got to give the man credit. I mean, you know, he's fine. I don't like these fights, of course, but you gotta give him credit. He's found a way to make an income, keep his name in the news, and I think that that's going to help him with other things, you know, endorsements and things down the road, business opportunities, because he's just out there so much. And you know, I mean this guy that he's fighting lost to Jake Paul. I mean it's not like he's actually, if you include exhibitions, I think he's one in three as a boxer. He's the brother of ks I is what he's best known as at this point. And look, if there's a market for it's gonna be streams. I mean, cass I's known in the UK for sure, He's got an audience there. He's got a huge social media fall. I always think a ks I is a radio station, you know, but no, But I mean it's gonna be on his own pay per view. He's gonna make a lot of money. I'm sure some people watch it. I'm actually more intrigued to see Tommy Fury on the undercard, just to see kind of you know, as he has a potential opponent for Jake Paul down the line, does he slap Jake Paul as he said he was gonna Jake laws him? By the way, those two guys like they know what they're doing. Like if Tommy Fury slaps Jake Paul. It's not gonna be like looking to hurt him. It's going to be looking to build up uh buzz for a future fight. Well, what he's gonna do is he's going to turn around a look or the camera's pointing at me or everybody looking, and once he sees that they are, then he will slap. Well, there was a scene I don't know if you remember this in Cleveland. They had kind of an interaction in the hallway after Jake's fight, and one member I think it was of Tommy's team kind of got serious in the middle of it and Tommy and Jay were look at him, what are you doing? No, no no, no, no, no, we need the camera. We need this moment for social media to build up our our fight. That their masters at at that, and I think that'll be behind it. But look good to spend it back to Floyd. Good for him. He has no interest in taking a real fight. He has no interest and why should he, nor should he if you taking seven figures to travel the world and beat up on these you know, first it was a couple of guys over in Japan. Now it's a social media influencer like Degi says it's gonna be back in February in the UK. He can do this three times a year and clear more than virtually everybody in boxing at this point. No, I mean, it's it's masterful, and you know, it's amazing the change because I was around, you know, I I covered in person forty three of Floyd's fifty fights, and I was around when he was not a draw, and we used to write story Floyd mayweller Kenna sell tickets and that was the truth back in the day. And the change that he made. You know, he's a genius now. I mean, and uh, you know, he figured out how to make money and that character still works now and there's still people that are into him, and and uh, you know, I've had people ask me a, do you think you'll find give Logan paula rematchin like who cares? Who cares? He? Um, I wonder now that I think of it. You're right, he wasn't a draw early on. He had to go to Jersey to find got he to get Gody's audience to to follow him. And I'll tell you this just to a real quick story. I was the first person to talk to him when he changed to the money May character. And it was in the buffet at Caesar's Atlantic City, and we're sitting next to the buffet and the workers were getting ready to open it up, and there's all the ice that they put in a salad bar, and he's eating the ice as we're sitting there. And I had a great relationship with him. I had covered him actually the amateurs at the Olympics um and so you know, we had a good working relationship and he had been pretty boy Floyd, always easy going. All of a sudden, when I first asked him a question, he started, you know, with the money May stuff and like really going off, and I'm like, what the hell is going on here? And Lee, Samuel's from top rank the Hall of Fame publicist, was going to have a connection. I mean, he was sitting off to the side and he didn't know what Floyd was doing. But and then once he finishes his interview and we talked for about a half an iron, he's just ripping gatty up and down. He looked at me and he taps me on the leg and he winks. Look, it's definitely a character that he purposefully became, and good for him. He did I've often wondered, like, yeah, not not to say Devon Haney is Floyd, but at some point in the next couple of years, if Devon Hanny remains unbeaten and isn't as popular as he'd like to because he's kind of similar in the sense he doesn't really draw anywhere, doesn't have a home base. You know, maybe northern California can get there, maybe Vegas he can get there. But I wonder if he makes a similar he'll turn in future years where it's like, fine, beat me, all right if you want. You know, you can say I'm boring, but you can't beat me. I wonder he's not as talented as Floyd because he's very good. He's very good. Um, he's more hittable I think at this stage than Floyd was. But I can see Devon Haney making a turn like that and making a boatload of money off and down the line. I think the problem for Devon is going to be he loses to Shakur. That's what I think. You know, I'm a big Shakur fan, and I think as a fighter, I think Shakoor is better than he is. I think Devon is awesome, you know, and That's why I like that lightweight division. There's so many good fighters. But to your point, Chris, I think he could do that, right because Devin is a smart kid, right, and look what he's been doing, you traveling all these fights. He's you know, he was at the Zone fight. He goes on the broadcast, he talks, he was, you know, at the Loma fight just recently gone on the broadcast. He went in the ring afterwards, um, and then he released I don't know if you noticed that he released all those pictures people were saying how fat he was after Loma. He got in the ring and he released pictures him eating ice cream and pizza and all these different things, which was clever on his part. But I think he needs more than that. And if he was a knockout artist, I would say he's okay, But he's not. You know, he doesn't have that kind of pop that really And if he moves up, which I think everybody agrees he's got maximum to maybe one more fight at lightweight and he's going out, I don't I think his pop is going to be even less. So as a result, I think he needs to do something like Floyd did. I don't think a Shaquar fight happens anytime soon. I think it's one more fight at lightweight because you saw him before the Loma Shanko fight, like he was amaciated getting down to one five. Like do it for Loma because that's a career defining fight. But after that, go up to one forty where you can be physically stronger and maybe your power gets a little bit better at a higher weight class. I don't know, but he's I think he's got a big future and I'm curious see where he goes personality wise. Moving forward, all right, we'll get to the next topic in just a second, but I'll have to tell our listeners here about net Suite two thousand, two thou eighty two. 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Head to net suite dot com slash mannix right now net suite dot com slash mannix, net suite dot com slash mannix. So we are in Las Vegas. I'll be at the top ranked show on Saturday, headlined by the latest w b O middleweight champion who will never fight anybody, Jennebec. And I'm not gonna try to pronounce the last names. I've tried it seven times and I butchered it. Even top ranks not even trying. Like they're putting in their their hashtags. Is Jennebec as his as his hashtag? He is defending his title uh this weekend, headlining a show at the Palms. That's gonna be on ESPN plus UM. In two thousand eighteen, Demetrius Andreid won the w BO version of the middleweight title. He spent three plus years not getting a significant fight. I'm getting a similar feeling here with Jane Beck. A hard hitting self defencions all twelve pro fights, correct, but like, no, no, But I'm saying, like, as the w B middleweight title holder, I don't think anybody's gonna fight He's a hard hitting southpaw. Like if Demetrius Andreid, who was a you know, brash talking American without a lot of power, couldn't get someone at the top of the middleweight division to face him and unification fights, I have a hard time seeing jenne Beck getting those types. But I think there's a difference between Andred and and and Jennebec can adds what you said, the punching power, you know, uh, and Andreid was a guy that fought backwards, right, He's you know, awkward to fight and he just throws everything off. You know. Jennet Janet back is not like that. I mean, you know, he's a good boxer, but we'll see how good of a boxer he is, right he you know, we know he can punch um. You know, some people say it's the hardest puncher in the division. Already, I want to say, let's see who he fights, right, so I'm beating what was it Rob Brandt and Hassan and Dom and guys like that, and who he beat in the last fight. Yeah, I mean, like, yeah, you're right, he's gotta face a Lee. But I don't think he gets it, Like I don't think anybody's gonna line up to fight him, Like who coming up from? That's the title I won. I'm gonna fight Jen And he's calling out Charlo, Like, you know, Charlot has not fought anybody since he won them, you know, middleweight title. You're not going to see him and do that, Charlotte. As as we're recording this, the BBC is having their convention. They're gonna do anything about Jamal Charlotte at this point, he's been off for over a year, like holding that belt hostage at this point, I don't I don't understand how that works and and how there are reporters actually an Acapulco who do not call them on these kind of things and right about it instead of just saying here's what they ordered. Call them on these kind of things, you know, and that I try to write that kind of stuff and and call out and I get caught, you know, ripped for being negative. I wrote a story last week and said boxing is great, the sport of boxing is great, but the business of boxing sucks, and all these you know boxing writers, uh, you know, Oh, he's negative, he's this, he's at and they're pointing to fights between two guys that you know, you and I heard of, but the average public has no ideas they are is an example of something good in boxing? And you know, I think if you want to do something good for boxing, go to that WBC convention in a copul call and call them on and say what are you gonna do about this? And force him to fight. But if they have no public pressure from the media, then they're gonna do you know, They're gonna just let these kind of things happen. It's just ridiculous. I mean, look, the other example of it is rank, and it's small potatoes, I guess. But ranking Keith Thurman, head of Virgil Ortiz the WBC ranks, how do you explain that Keith Thurman has had what one win since the Pacao fight like Virgil Tis has been active, He's been knocking guys out, He's been increasing his level of competition every single time. How do you have Keith Thurman ahead of Ortez if only because you want to have presented as a potential mandatory Ferrell Spence. That's laughable what they're doing there, um So to spend it back to jennebec here for a second, Like, I think he's exceptionally talented. Buddy mcgart negus claims thinks he's the best fighter of this generation. Like they're talking a lot about Jenna Beck. I love him. I love Buddy tremendous Randers as surge as a train in recent years. Vegas is approven talent evaluator over the years. But I'm with you, I need to see him against better guys. I just don't know who that guy is. Like Himan Monghia has been named as his mandatory. There is a better chance of you getting the ring with Janda back than Heimi Monkey and doing it. Huh. I mean, what Golden Boy is getting away with with heim Mongia is unbelievable. The opponents that they are coming on. Fernando Beltran too there a little bit and it's on both of them that with the But you know, I got to know Fernando Beltron uh in the nineties when Fernando Beltron had you know, Eric Morales and and r Say and all those guys, and they fought everybody, And of course that's a lot to do with the fighter. But I mean, you know himI Mungia, now you know what he got turned on for the Golofkin fight, what was except eighteen and eighteen. Tom Loffler wanted to have him fight Golofkin and eighteen. So that told me, hey, this guy had some you know, intestinal fortitude that he's willing to take on Golofkin at such a young age and a prime Golofkin at that point. So I don't think it's him. I think it's the people around him saying, we don't believe in him, and he's we're gonna lose our gravy train if we put him in with somebody who can actually fight, and so Oscar and Fernando and whoever else is on the management team. Erik Gohme is um. All these people, they just they find soft touch after soft touch after soft touch, and we're really not getting to see what this guy has. The amazing thing to me is that if he fought Jamal Charlotte right now, I'd make him a slight favorite. If he fought Ganadi Gallofkin right now, I'd make him a slight favorite. I think he's improved that much over the last couple of years. I've I've had the opportunity to call most of his recent fights, and I think his defense is getting a little bit better. His offense is getting exponentially better. He throws six, seven, eight punch combinations every single time. He has a great shin like. He's shown that he rarely has anything coming back. So if you have in one round the guy fires back at you, you know your defense and your offense can also be good because you know you're not worried as much. Right you know you're in there against Charlo and you know he can hit, and you know, whatever you think of Charlo, and I agree, there's inherent problems with with Charlo, but you know, you know he can hit, and he's quick and he's athletic, and so he's going to create, you know, issues, and you know him he's fighting these guys that he's a twenty to one favorite. You know, I mean, it's ridiculous, and you know, the public deserves better, the you know, the television deserves better, and and he deserves better. And I think he has some talent, like the fact, you know, when he beat Um, I was gonna say, Oba car, who was it that he Beatsto? No, not Caprisotto, the welterweight that he beat uh for for a title, um Um the slick boxer, the one that beat Codo. And I'm blanking okay, we're both, but who you know, he could fight. He was a good you know, much smaller, but he moved up to UH one fifty four or fought and I thought at that point, hey, this kid is you know, it's got something in him. And then he wanted to fight Glofkin right after that. But now, like the fact that he's so acquiescent to what his management wants to do tells me, you know that he's he's willing just to pick up paychecks and not really you know, I loved what Dmitri Bivil said last week to you in the ring, it's not about money, it's about legacy. And to me, when I heard that, I just, you know, I mean, I felt so good because That's what I've been dying to hear fighters say. And God bless you Dmitri Bivil for saying that. I believe him too. You know, I believe, all things being equal, Dmitri bevil would happily take an archer better be a fight over Canelo, even if the money was not as as substantial. So I think he's about that legy. So let's talk about be Evil for a second, coming off the win over Um, coming off the win in Abu Dhabi this weekend, I'm black Gilbert Ramirez of course, coming off the win over Zero up second straight big win of the year for Dmitri Bevil. Um. First of all, what did you think about his performance last weekend? I thought he looked good. Um. I think what did I have attended to? I believe I had it right around there? Um, And I just thought Zero did not fight right. I mean, I was disappointed in Zero, like, and Zero is another guy. He had been matched easily almost his whole career. Like, his hardest fights were probably Jesse Hart and just Jesse Harts a tough guy, but he's not an elite boxer, and that was Zero's toughest fight. So now you get up to a guy, a world class guy, you know, arguably a top ten pound for pound guy, and he was in over his head and I think he realized that, and you know he Bivill was quicker. Bivill is a better boxer, and I think Bivill was actually the bigger puncher of the two. Right, Bivill wasn't sitting down on his puncious because he didn't need to take the risk. But I think of Zero was firing back at him. But I I was really impressed with with Bivil and he shows movement in the ring, He has different combinations, and he's smart. You know, he makes adjustments on the fly. Um, I was really impressed. I'll tell you what, I love Arthur better BF, but that is a tough fight for better BF is I mean better b of hits you and you're in trouble. But I good luck hitting the dry Bivil with a good one too. Bevil has tremendous footwork, tremendous defense, and he does punch hard like He's not the knockout artist we thought he was gonna be when he was coming up the ranks on HBO knocking out everybody. Sullivan Barrera was on that hitlist early on. But he's not a light puncher by any stretch. If he was, Gilberto Ramirez would have come forward, and he didn't. He was fighting most of that fight going backwards, and he fought that little crouch because and I think you know, he wanted to make himself a more difficult target because he felt what was coming at him. Yeah. Look, one of the big questions we had coming in was what was Gilberto Ramires really made up? He was five and oh at light heavyweight, but he had faced sea level competition. At best. You'd probably say unsky Gonzalez might have been the best fighter he had faced. And I don't blame Ramires for that because two of those fights were Manda, were eliminators. So he's got to put himself in position to force the fight against Pevil because if he hadn't, people would have fought Blatzi on that weekend and he would have been in that position. But in that fight we learned that maybe zerdo you know, certainly not the power punch we thought he was at one. All that being said, I don't blame like people are pilot on Zert a little bit. What do you the guy fought the best guy like he fought a top ten pound for pound guy. We want him to avoid these fights, like do we want him to be like with you? Like like I criticized him to a certain degree, I said he was exposed, but I I wasn't criticizing him for, especially at light heavyweight, what he had done, but I was saying I was criticizing his management team right, his old management team and his new management team, because you know, you gotta like I wish him boxing, they would learn and I think there's a lot of smart people out there, but something they still worry about losses like that. I don't think the TV networks care as much about losses as these managers and some fans seem to think they do. You know what, if you show up and you'd give me a good fight, people people are gonna want to see you, and the networks are gonna want to put you on. And I think that they just were so low risk. Was Zero that the first really good fighter he fought. There's no question Bibill's in a a fighter, you know um, And when he got in the ring with an a fighter, he was ill equipped to deal with it. And I think Zero is talented enough that had he seen that prior, you know, maybe you're not going to see a Dmitri bibl prior, but you know some better. You know, there was some good guys at sixty eight when he was there. He could have fought some of those guys. He would have been more equipped for this, and I think would have been it had a better chance to winning. I don't think he would ever won that fight, but he would have had a chance. And even if you lose in boxing, if you get one low level win, you were all the way back. And it's like, all right now we want to see him back. If if zero went out and knock somebody out in his next fight, be like, well, is he gonna fight a cruise way? He's gonna fight for a title? There? I mean losses, we could go all day long on that don't mean anything, all right. The question now for Dmitri people going forward is what's next? Um It certainly sounds like Archer betterbe is headed forward. That fight against the Anthony Yard in the first quarter January February is something like at um, it's a w B, a mandatory. He's got to do it to keep his belts. It's already signed field and delivered accord to people have talked to you with with top rank um. But if there's an option for be Evil in like May or June of next year, what's the bigger fight for him in your mind? Is it that unification fight with Archer betterbev or is it a rematch with Canelo, a generational pound for pound talent which could conceivably take place at a hundred and sixty eight pounds, which would put people in position to fight for the undisputed championship there. He commented to you in the ring in Abu Dhabi, and I think he showed you, you know, I mean he said, that's I'm not I'm a light heavyweight, and you know that's a tough cut. You know, he's he's an amazing athlete. He's lean and at one five. Now you're gonna ask him to take seven pounds off against the world class fighter like Canelo. Um, you know, that is a really, really difficult thing to do. I think of his team and he you know, if they get a nutritionist and they feel like they can make it, that fight is both a money fight and a legacy fight. So it gives you both because if you beat Canello. I think he put yourself in the Hall of Fame. Give him when he's already done. That is, you know, he may be in now as it is anyways, but I think if you beat Canello a second time, you are a Hall of Famer. You've done that. You're stamping yourself. Is one of the greatest fighters in the world. There's no doubt he would be in the top five pound for pound at that point. You know, some people have him in the top ten. Now some people have them just outside the top ten. He's in if he does that. But if you know on the side of fighting better b of you know you're gonna go up against maybe like the Mike Tyson of light heavyweights, a guy what is he is? He's seventeen to know, with seventeen knocks, and you know, you know just I mean, he just destroyed Joe Smith, a pretty good, solid fighter, great and he destroys him. It wasn't even so if you go in there and you win the undisputed light heavyweight title by beating that guy, I think again, you know you're gonna like, hey, when you cop it on top of his his win over canell O, and that again, you know, this guy saying, hey, this is a Hall of Fame fighter. Um, so he has good choices to make, you know. Obviously the Cannelo fight is going to be the richer fight. I wonder if they can do this, if they could have Cannello, excuse me, Bibbl and better Be have come back and maybe May and fight like after Cannelo does, and then them fighting September on the rematch and and do it that way. I don't know who you would put Cannelo within the introim if you did that, but I think that might be something for for Bibbl's team that now he's the undisputed light heavyweight champion going up against the undisputed and they can pull a Sugar Raylan or Donni la Lan thing. We're weighing at one and you're fighting for undispeter to both classes. That's a good point. You could do both sugar rates certainly did it. I would better Be doesn't just beat guys ends careers at one point, and did Alexander Vastick's career unclear if we see Joe Smith ever again back in the ring. Um, if I'm Bevil and I can in a healthy way get down into one sight, I would push for that fight because not only is there a lot of money, um, you would be the favorite going in. You would have a chance to win all the belts at one eight and do what nobody has ever done, which is when two undisputed champions on the men's side, respect Claressa Shields on the men's I went two undisputed championships and do it in two fights like that would be a really remarkable and historical accomplishment. It all comes down to his ability to cut weight. And look, the only reason I bring it up, and I brought it up to him in the ring, it's because he suggested before, like when he was not getting fights at one seventy five, he was talking about being able to cut down to one eight. And that to me makes the Canello fight a little bit more interesting. If it's Canello be Evil at one we've seen it. Like, I don't think Canello wins that fight as as great as Canelo w is. I think that's a bridge too far for him to up against a fighter like that at that weight class at one sixty eight. You take a little bit out of Dmitri be Evil, maybe his speed, maybe his reflexes. Maybe they go a little bit, you give yourself a little bit more of a chance. That fight interested me, Kevin, I would be more on board for beavil Canello at one right now that I am for Bevil better Be. The Other part of it is, you just can't count on Archer. Better Be have to be healthy like you, just if you're banking on you times, if you're banking on him to be able to fight in June or mayor June, I don't know if after. I mean personally, I don't think Anthony. I talked to John Scully about him, though, and John Scully is confident that he could come back one of his training. I don't believe the Yard fight is going to go very long. Anthony Yard. Good for him for getting in this position, but he's he's better be. He's a steam roller man, and I don't think Yard can put up the resistance to him. A lot of people like I was talking to some people at top rank and criticizeing the fight. Right after the Joe Smith fight, I was no, no, no with Anthony Yard um and I don't understand why boxing likes those kind of fights and why the organizations make these kind of mandatories because you know what, it benefits them. And then there and then they're not gonna get crop up from people like you and me if they look and they say, hey, you know what, let's let's set it up so that we can have this big fight. You know whoever the big fight happens to be. But in this case, like a bivil and him like set it up for that because now it's gonna be a big money fight, you know, as opposed to an Anthony Yard fight, which is you know, not gonna be a little bit less. And and then theoretically a Canello fight. I I don't I don't understand in boxing likes to put these goofy little fights in there, and I don't think you need it. And and to me that's something on the business side. I love what's going on in boxing thing. I think there's so many I've covered boxing for what forty years, I covered fights in the seventies, um, and I I think the current talent now, the world championship level talent and just below that on the way up, is as good as it's been, like you know, maybe in the late eighties, mid eighties, you know, there's been there's a lot of guys and a lot of divisions. Plus you see some of these kids coming up or five and oh six. And I'm not holding on Ashton Sylviette, but the kid that fought on the Jake Paul Undercar. But I think he's a guy I look at it going. You know, maybe he is something. I'm not there on him yet, but he's a guy that attracted my interest. So why not take advantage of this and promote these great fighters and promote them in big fight because you know what, I know Ryan Garcia wants to fight Tank Davis. I know that Devin Haney wants to fight Loma and Shakoor Stevenson. Um, you know Taafimo Lopez wants to fight Josh Taylor. All. You know these kids want to fight each other. Let him do it. No networks, promoters, politics, everything stands in the way. And it's it is absolutely keeping boxing from rising. Boxing it easily rise if it just gets out of its own way. We've been having that conversation for many years now. To put a button on the biball topic. Canelos out there just to ad hand surgery. Eddie Hearn says he'll be back training and full by end of December early January, theoretically healthy enough to fight in May. Should Canello pursue the rematch with Dmitri Beeble? He was beaten pretty soundly in that last fight. Um, he's a dominant one, but at one seventy he can beat someone like Sergey Kovlev. Can he compete with Beevil? Can he compete with better bf? That might be um just a way too big at this point for Canello? Should should he pursue the Beevil fight? Or should he look in the direction of, say, the winner of David Benavidez versus Caleb Plant, which across our fingers, we think is going to happen in the first quarter of two thousand twenty three. You know, here's the problem. I I picked Cannelo to beat Bivil, and I said it was a fight, but I thought, if it's a close fight in Las Vegas, that Canelo is gonna win the decision, you know, right, So he almost did get like the Vegas push because I've had like seventeen eleven I think, and I don't it wasn't. But you know, when you look at that, when you see them in the ring fighting, I'm bibls considerably bigger and in the reach. You know, Cannello didn't have a way to really touch him the way he touches a lot of these guys that are his size. Because Cannelo is an accurate puncher, he's quick, he's got good footwork to put himself in position. He did those things against Bibble, but then Bivil had that little reach advantage on the pole with a job, and that job was slow Cannelo down for a second and Bibl with throw a combination. So just are you bringing bibbl down to sixty eight? Is that going to stop that? If Bibbil can make sixty eight healthy, I don't know how Cannelo turns that around. Now for Cannelo, you know, Canelo is like a guy. He likes to say, bleep you, I can do it, and he's gonna prove itself to you. And so that's what we love about Canelo that he has that brash attitude and that's what we wanted a guy. And so from that standpoint, you say, hey, you know, God bless you, you've done so much. Go ahead and try. But I I like your line of thinking because I think you know what you've proven that that size is too big of an issue against you, and if you beat him a second time, there's always going to be that lingering doubt. Well, bibbl came down and wait and that's not you know, that's not good for him. And Roy Jones proved that right when Roy Jones went down after he won the heavyweight title and he went back down. You know that was a massive mistake. You drop all that muscle off and you're not the same same type of fighter that you were before. And who did you fight? Glenn Johnson? I think he got knocked out twice Um and that you know, that became a big issue. So to my way of thinking, Chris Um, I think Canelo might be better to look at somebody and you know, hey, he fought Plant on the Plant has a little bit of heat after that knockout of Durrell. But if Benevitez beats him, and I think, you know, that's the hope that PBC has because Benevidez is the fresh face that they can now set Benevitez up to fight him, And to me, that's a great fight for Canelo because Benevidez is a big kid, right, bigger than Canelo. And I think that's the fight, and then you can have Biblico fight. Better be a first look. Canelo has not been ducking Benevitez. We need to be the idea, like these trolls out there is you are. I'm moron if you think that Canello ducky. If David Benevitez had not screwed up the WBC title situation, he would have fucking l already. Canel I was chasing those belts. He went after the guys with the belts that he fun a legacy fight against genetic lacause he's not ducking Benevidez, and Benavidez, to his credit, has said I need to earn that fight with Canello. He's been chasing it. And this Plant fight after Plant just stopped Anthony Durrell. Is that kind of stepping stone type of fight if he gets I think that's a good fight. Yeah, but it would springboar him. I gues stepping stone is the wrong word, springboard him into Canello fight. I don't I don't hate the idea of Canelo waiting until September fighting David Benavidez and if he wins and if he comes out clean. There's nothing stopping Canello from doing one of those Eddie hern specialties and fighting overseas somewhere against like a John Ryder type which has been in the Waters tribe. Yeah, like you can do that. He can get his two fights a year in, make his money and and stay as active as he'd like to stay. I don't hate that idea. But Cannello, as you alluded to, like he's a little bit crazy, like he's he I'm sure it gnaws at him that he lost it Dmitri people. I'm sure it really really bothers him. I just don't know to your earlier point, I don't know that he's going to be able to turn the tide on on a situation like that. All Right, last thing I want to hit you with. You're a great piece over Yahoo Sports about the thirteen fights that you want to see in two thousand twenty three. Some of them are realistic. You've got Joshua are Sorry, Fury against us. Maybe Fury against Joshua we could see that. Others, especially in the lower weight classes, not so much. You've got Spence Crawford still doing their thing back and forth. I really love the idea of in a way versus Stephen Fulton, that's a tremendous fight. If you're Stephen Fulton, what are you doing out there right now? I mean you just kinda I mean the Aquadalia fight, it was never gonna come together anyway. Now Aquadalia is hurt, like you gotta strike while the iron's hant if in a way moves up, you gotta push hard for that type of He's got the unification fight in December, and then I think they're ready to go. Oh yeah in a way. I mean, yeah, he's he's gone. I'm up those belts of fracture and then um, we'll see what happened. But that that to me when I looked at your list. You know, I love Ryan versus Tank and I actually think we're getting closer to making a deal on that fight. But when I saw in a way versus Fulton, men give me that in a way style of come forward, big power, full more of a slicker boxer. I love that style matchup. I tried to make put fights that. I said, Okay, what fights do I want to see? And there was a bunch of other ones I wanted, but like Andy Ruise and Wilder was in the work, So I didn't put that on there. I called for that fight before. Now I think it's too late, right, and Andy Ruise's star continues to drop. You know, I I if he would have fought Wilder instead of Robert hellneous and forget about Louis. I mean PBC kept trying to sell the ghost of Louise ortiz Iss some threat. And you know who do Louise Whorts? He's ever beat in his professional career, and yes he has power, and you know, yes he knocked down you know, Deontay Wilder, but you know what, he got beaten by him, and he's what can be? Could he knocked down Wilder? He hurt Wilder? Did he knocked him down? Didn't know? I think he heard him in that first of the Brooklyn fight. Okay, so not in the second fight for sure, But you know Wilder dominated the second fight. But either way, you know he had him in some difficulty, was ahead. But who is who is ortiz ever beaten? So to me, the fight if and if Wilder had decided to take a long even longer off, I would have understood. But Wilder coming off that Fury fight, to me, Andy Ruise was to fight to make, because you know, Wilder is, like you said about Canello, crazy water, wants to be in there, and God bless him for the attitude he is. He's one of the guys that wants to make the big fights and he's looking to fight, you know, the big guys if you wanted to get one of those fights again. And Andy Ruise was to fight to make. In my opinion, you know, Helennius just didn't have the name power. But I don't know what you know. The PBC, I guess, was trying to milk every single last thing they could get out of Ortiz. And what do they do? They did a dud of a pay per view and it actually Andy didn't look great in that fight, right. I mean, if Andy blows him on, puts him down and puts his arms up in the air while Ortiz is rolling around on the canvas, that's one thing, but very tentative in the fight. Knocked Ortis down a few times, but I don't know if the punch resistance is there for Andy Ruize like it used to be. And he took that shotmanthrow to Joshua, got up, came back, knocked him up. But you look at the area are totally different. But Ariola knocked him down. I think he was a little bit nervous about Ortiz in that fight. In his power Wilder, I mean ruise catch Wilder. I mean like he's got good hands. That's what makes a fight interest. But I tried to look at other fights, Chris and say so I brought Joe Joyce up because think about Joe Joyce. To me, he reminds me of a poor man's George Foreman, big, strong, kind of slow, but he moves forward and he can take a shot. And you would see George come out of those fights, is wearing the sunglasses, his face got beat up. But somebody's you know, you know, babbling incoherently in the corner because he knocked that, you know, the hell out of him. And I think that, you know, that sort of Joe in a lower level reminds me. So you're gonna tell me, Deante Water versus Joe Joyce would not be an unbelievable fight to watch, you know, just from a fans perspective, it wouldn't be a fun fight. You know, somebody's gonna get knocked out. You know it's gonna be Rockham sockham robots, and so that's kind of what I tried to do, was I went down that list, and you know, I had to hit some of the obvious ones like Spence and Crawford that were there. But you know, and I do want to see that fight because I think, you know, you're talking to welterweights in their prime. Who are you know, among the five best fighters in the world, would you agree? And when you have that that that uplifts boxing when those kind of guys fight, and you can also showcase other elite talent on those undercards. Right. Um. I remember many years ago, and I've said this on many interviews, Chris, but when de Laoia Mayweather got made, I called Richard Shaffer, he was a golden boy at the time, and I said, Richard, you should put Raphael Marquez and Israel Vasquez on that undercard. And he's always going to cost a million dollars to make that fight. What did that fight make? I think it made two million dollars uh that night. That one million dollar investment would have not helped them that night, but it would help boxing's future. People are gonna who went away from boxing, and I said, holy shit, are these guys. Is this what boxing is now? And I think that's what they miss on when they don't put those kind of fights on pay per view. I agree, I agree, um, And if you're gonna do pay per views, stack them as best you can and know the money isn't there like it used to be. But you've got to do better than what most of these pay per views are, which is a decent headlining fight and then a lot of one sided fights on the under card. It's it's problematic, Kevin Iolie. You are off to New York to cover UFC this weekend, so we'll be on separate coast. Even though I live on the East coast, I'm on the West coast. You'll be uh in my back switch back right. Appreciate your time, Kevin, Thank you, Chris, appreciate it. And when we come back, my conversation with Sinisa Estrada. Well, the NBA season is underway. It's the perfect time to download FanDuel America's number one sports book because right now new customers get a no sweat first bet up to one thousand dollars plus. Fan Duel is the only sports book that's giving all customers three months of NBA League Pass when they make a five dollar bet. You guys know from listening to me following me, I am an NBA guy, and gambling has become a big part of the NBA landscape. It's competitive out there at the moment, and at the moment you've got some teams like Utah Portland's teams that you didn't think we're gonna be that good. They're good. Teams that you thought we're gonna be good. Philadelphia are quite as good. So some interesting places to make bets right now. FanDuel has all your favorite bets, from the money line to point spreads, two player props. You can even combine your bets for a chance at a bigger payout with the same game parlay. Plus with live betting, you'll get updated odds on games I've already started. The fan Duel sports Book app is safe, secure, and super easy to use, So download FanDuel today and use promo code boxing to get your no Sweat first bet up to one thousand dollars. Make every moment more this season with fan Duel, official sports book partner of the NBA. All Right. Sanisa Estrada is a two division world champion on Saturday. She will end in eleven month layoff when she returns to defend her hundred and five pound title. That's a fight you can watch over on ESPN Plus on Saturday. It is live out here in Las Vegas. She is also the proud protege of a friend of the podcast, Sergio Mora, one of the from the Sergio Mora Fighting Tree. Is that accurate? To say that is accurate? Unfortunately he co hosts with you, right, he likes to think so, so he's not officially No. I just saw before we sat down to record, he's just tweeted out that he's not appearing again on this podcast until I admit that he's my highest rated guest. I will not be admitting that today since that is inaccurate, and I'd like to be accurate here on the show. But Sergio is a free question. We joked though, but you know you were an avid follower of Sergio. You effectively are a stable mate of Sergio, since you are trained by Dean Campos, who of course was in Sergio's corner for many years during his career. So you are in a way of protege of not protegea I guess is wrong word. But I guess the disciple of yes, I believe it or not. I was a fan of Surgio growing up. I was probably one of his ten fans growing up. I'm just kidding. No, Sergio had a great style, great footwork and defense, and I grew up. We grew up. I grew up training in the same gym as him. Um I was just training. My dad was training at the time, and Dean was training Sergio. They were getting ready to go um through the Olympic trials and then after that he got onto the Contender TV show and went through that one. It and uh. I started training with Dean when I was sixteen, and it was because I loved Surgio style was about that, just it was different. His footwork and defense was great. Of course, Sergio doesn't have power, and that was sorry Sergio, but everybody knows that he was. He wasn't a power puncher. But that's why Dean had to create all these different all these different moves and and training methods and techniques him to be able to be able to win fights against fighters who are a lot stronger or even a lot more experience than him. So he can get through these fights and his style worked our style. I mean I fight that way too, with my footwork in my defense and my movement, except I actually I have the powers that makes it even easier for me. For people that don't understand, like what made his footwork special? When you watched his footwork, what did you see him? What did you try to to kind of emulate? I mean, foot placement is so important important in boxing that makes a huge difference as to I mean, for example, we saw that last weekend with the Bibol and Zero fight. His foot placement was just perfect, and that's what made his punches be so precise and accurate and made it easier for him to land all the punches that he wanted to. So when watching Sergoe, I just recognize and noticed how his foot placement was always just so good. It put him positions to where he was able to land punches from the side of opponents and landin punches from all different angles. Like you, you didn't know where Surgio was going next. And that's the same thing with me and my style, Like my opponents don't know what I'm gonna do next because I'm always I'm always keeping them guessing. But I always know what I'm gonna do next. You switch a lot in the ring. To Surgery didn't switch that much, did he. He didn't switch as much, but but yes, he was very good at at throwing certain punches out out of a south Pall stance, because that's what Dean does teach us. That's that's tricky, right, I mean, we've seen it's my handful of fighters that really switch in boxing. Terence Crawford does it at pretty high level. This I'm blanking, but I'm sure there's a few others like that. That's not easy to kind of master because you've got to be really comfortable in both stances, right, you do, And I'm actually very comfortable. I'm more comfortable in a Southhall stance than I am an orthodox stance. Like even Dean was like, man, like, you can do certain things easier out of a south Pall stance. And when I started boxing, I would always stand left handed, and my dad would always make me turn back to orthodox dance. But as time went on, he noticed that I was doing seeing so much better out of a South Paul stance and it was kind of just working what I was doing, so he kind of just let me be and let me um switch back and forth when I felt it was necessary. Everybody knows now women's boxing is experiencing like an unbelievable surge. You've got women making seven figure pay days, the biggest boxing matches on men's or women's side, or being fought by women. You know, you'll go back to Katie Taylor Amanda Serrano. A couple of weekends ago, you had a great card overrom the UK where both women's fights were were impressive. I want to ask you about that. But when you first started in boxing, when back when you were eight nine years old, what was women's boxing back then? Like, what do you remember women's boxing being when you first picked up those gloves? Well? I started watching boxing with my dad when I was about six year years old, and the first question I asked him was Dad, do girls box? Because we didn't watch any women on TV. It was just men, So I didn't think that women's boxing even existed. So growing up I getting into boxing, I didn't realize how how dead woman's boxing was. In l A. I was one of maybe three girls who were in going into every gym and East l A for sparring and in l A m because it was still what like Christy Martin lay Lally, Yeah, like the end of that, like a riker kinda. There wasn't in professional the fresh and level. It was more as a gimmicky but it was few and far between we saw women's fight. Yeah, I wasn't enough to like keep no depth, no depth, yeah exactly, So, um it was. It was pretty difficult coming growing up in l A. Being one of the very few girls walking into a box xing gym and all my sparring partners were boys. It was hard to even find another girl to spar with. UM. So to see how far it's come now is just incredible. Like I've always known it would get to the point where it is now, I just didn't know when. That's the one thing about one's boxing. Getting into woman's boxing that early, it was just so unpredictable and wanting to turn pro. I had no idea how dead woman's boxing still was at the time, and my professional career took was a very slow start because I was so inactive. Big promoters weren't signing women, women weren't fighting on TV. But now the breakthrough has been incredible. It's just been in the past couple of years. This year actually is, like, like you said, the best year that woman's boxing has had ever. Well, when did you decide that this would be a career path? Like when does it go from being something you want to do because you're sit in front of a TV and watch and ask your dad, are the women box too? This is something I want to do for most of my life. I knew that when I was seven before I started boxing. I started boxing at eight years old. But when I was seven, I was sitting in front of the TV watching a boxing fight, don't I don't remember which fight specifically, but I thought to myself, this is what I want to do. This is what I'm going to do for the rest of my life. Were not the rest of my life, but you know, as a professional, this is going to be my career. I'm going to be a world champion one day. I'm going to fight on TV one day, and I'm going to be signed by one of the biggest promoters in boxing one day. I said that at seven years old, when like like, my dad thought I was fucking crazy. He thought like he thought I was insane. Of course my mom did too for a very long time, but um, I just knew it. I knew it, and I knew women's boxing would be where it is right now. And your dad, as he's been around, he's around every one of your fights, works your corner along with Dean. Um. You still you've told the story before, but he was initially skeptical of it, right, Like he threw you win with a boy your first time out. Yeah, when I first asked him if I can box, he avoided taking me to a gym for about six months. I was constantly just bugging him, and I think it got to the point where he was just annoyed. So he was like, all right, fine, like I'll take her to a gym. And Um, I was training for about two weeks and he still didn't want me boxing. So he asked my trainer at the time to put me in the ring just bar with a boy so he can beat me up, make me cry. That way, I would not want to go back to the gym ever year old daughter cry. So I get in there with the boy, and the boy had been sparring, I mean had been boxing for a few months. Get in there. My technique was awful. I didn't know what I was doing. All I knew was I mean, I knew I just wanted to go in there and just just fight, and that's what I did. So I ended up making the boy cry, making him quit, and he never came back to the gym again. So the plant kind of backfired on my dad. But I think even though he didn't show it in his facial expressions, in his mind he was thinking, holy sh it, like she has some she has potential and there's something, there's something. They're like, I gotta I gotta give her a chance to at least see what she can do in this sport. How does Dean get involved in your life? I mean he became well known as the trainer for Sergio Mora. When Sergio wins, the contender goes on to world championship level fights, fights burn as far as twice. Obviously Dean intimately involved in that. When does he get involved in your career? So around the time where I knew that I wanted to turn pro, I I asked me and my dad had a talk and I was like, I want Dean to train me because I knew, like I had a great amateur career. How I had over a hundred amateur fights and my style has never been very amateurish, so I knew my I would have an easy transition into the pros. But I knew that I had to be better. I wanted to get better, like I still want to get better every single every single fight. I want to be better. So I I told my dad, I think Dean would be the perfect person to just teach me new things and take me to another another level. And my dad like, what's so great about him? And is he's not one of those boxing fathers who just want full control of their kid's career, and and that that was the great thing. I think that was the best decision he could have ever made, was letting Dean take full control over UM my style and everything that Dean wants to teach me. So we were still training at the same gym as Dean, as we've always had um and my dad goes into the gym one day and says, Dean, can you help me out with sneeze? I was you know, we just wanted it. We kind of wanted to like break ap in easily and easy and say, you know, just help help her out UM and show her some new things. So Dean hates woman's boxing, hates woman's, well hated woman's until I say past tense um. And he was not was not up for training me. Um. My dad gave him some some old tapes and he left them there and he said, here's some tapes if you want to check them out. And uh, Dean would see me sparring in the gym here and there. But you know that that that was pretty much it. So Dean was Dean said he was bored. One night, he throws on my old tapes and he starts watching me and he's like, he thinks himself, wow, Like she's doing stuff that Sergio doesn't even do, or doing stuff as a kid that took Sergio years to even perfect or learn. And I was just fighting off of instinct. And so he gave me. He we what. We came to the gym the next day and he's like, Cigary, I'll help her out. I'll show her some things. So Dean still didn't want to train me a cent, so he thought, okay, well let me let me show her some things. It's gonna just blow her mind and she's not going to understand it, and she's gonna say, I don't want to train with Dean anymore. So he taught me this move. Um, I mean, I can't explain it. I would have to get up and show you. So he taught me this move, and I spawned. I had sparring set up already the next day, so he's like, we'll try it and sparring if you can. You know, no big deal if you can't do it. And I thought to myself, this is easy. I'm gonna do this in sparring. Like I already already knew in my mind that I was gonna I was gonna do it multiple times, not just one time. Get in the ring, I do the move that he showed me the day before, and we still have we still have the footage of that. You could hear Dean say, tell my dad, Joe, Joe, she fucking did it. She did the move, Oh my god. And he's like, it took Sergio fucking two years to perfect this move and she just did it the next day after I showed it to her. So, Um, after that, I think kind of the same thing with my dad. When my dad first put me in the ring and didn't think I was capable of doing anything. Dean kind of thought the same thing, and after that it just made it so easy for him to just train me and teach me things because I just picked up on everything so quickly and easily. You hear that a lot, or I hear that a lot from women's boxing trainers, the skepticism they have coming into it, and then how happy they are that they did, whether it's Al Mitchell and MICHAELA. Mayor Ross Enemy and Katie Taylor and now Dean who you're You're basically his stable at this point as far as professionals go, and and he's totally committed to working with you. Yeah, And that's crazy because I remember when Dean, when I first turned pro, he didn't tell me this because he didn't want to discourage me make me feel bad. So but now he told me years later that he thoughts to himself, Man, if this girl makes fifty in her entire professional career, like I'll be happy with that. And then when I made my first hundred thousand for one fight, he was like, oh fuck, like this is okay, Like this this is this is different, Like things are changing. And I don't blame him for not wanting to train me, or blame other trainers for not wanting to train women because I didn't like women's boxing either when I was coming up as a kid, Like the fights that I would see on TV or would see in the pros, the skill level was just terrible, Like why would you want to see that? You know it? It kind of it just wasn't where it's at now. Now women are so skilled. If you don't like women's boxing and you watch the top women like Katie, Amanda, Clarissa, me Michaela, all the top women, our skill level is so good that whether or not you're a woman's boxing fan, you're going to become one watching us because you just can't deny the talent level. You didn't have the traditional amateur pop that some of these other women had, with Katie winning a gold medal and competing into Olympics, Claressa winning two gold medals, MICHAELA Mayre coming out of the two thousand sixteen Olympics, what was your first breakthrough? Like what was what do you feel like was your Olympic moment where you kind of got that that bounce that put you on another level in the amateur well not the them, because you were in the pros at first, but like, what was your breakthrough moment like in the program. Um, I would say, I would say it all started with Tom Loffler giving me the opportunity to fight on multiple Triple G under cards and then choke l Eto cars because obviously those brought in so many, so many people. Those are big cards, and Tom did a lot of stuff behind the scenes that doesn't get a lot of credit for it, whether there's a flyweights and mainstreaming them and as you said, you know women's boxing putting you on those cards. Yeah, and he put me on those cards of course because I was able to sell a lot of tickets in l A, which which is great, you know, of course it was. It was great for me. Tom does love when you sell tickets. That's another thing. I mean, it's business. He wouldn't have he wouldn't have put me on those cars if I couldn't sell tickets. So but yeah, I love Tom Or We've still have a great relationship up and um manage. It's been almost ten years since I've known him, and um, I'm thankful that he gave me that opportunity to be on all those cards, and that's what gave me that break through. I remember when I was on my first triple G undercard UM, Roy Jones was ringside with Max and they were rehearsing, and Roy kept looking back and watching watching my fight while they were trying to rehearse. And I can hear someone say Roy, like we're rehearsing, and Roy's like no, no, no, no, no, stop wait a minute, and Roy stopped the rehearsal. I kept watching my fight until it was until it was over. And then the next day at UM I believe it was who was he training at the time, Jesse Vargas I believe helped him for a fight. At the press conference UM I went to do some media interviews and I was sitting in the crowd and he completely stopped the press conference. He was like, I know this is completely off the record right now, but you see that girl right there you point out. I mean I even looked behind me. I was like, girl, who is he talking about? And He's like, stand up, tell everybody your name, and I was like, Sansa. I was so nervous, and I was like, oh my god, like that's Roy Jones, my hero, UM, one of my favorite fighters of all time besides Sugary Leonards. So to hear him talk about me and just give me all those compliments. Was just incredible. Like I cried. I was like, oh my God, like I can't believe this. And him saying that to all of the media that was there after that it made all of the local alley media just so a lot of them already knew me, but the ones who didn't, it just it just created this huge buzz around me, and that's when everybody was interested in, like, man, women's boxing can can make some progression. I think that's when people started to see that. And then after that, Tom was like, Okay, you're on this car, You're on that car, You're on the next card. He had me booked for Triple G under cards and Choke. I think the under cards months before they were happening. He's like, you're on that's your spot, Like get ready, you know. So that was great because before that I was very inactive. My professional career started so slow. Um. And then from those cards that led to Golden Boy wanting to sign me. I think a moment was that for you Because you grew up in East l A same as Oscar de la Hoyot, you were obviously well aware of his accomplishments. Um, was that something that you were hoping to do at that stage your career, to be part of whatever Oscar was doing at that time. Definitely, I you know, being from East l A. Oscar was just somebody who inspired so many people. And them signing as spar as a first out of the Olympics. I think the Olympic thing kind of definitely helped in so many ways. Katie came out of there and then Clarissa after that. So signing a Golden Boy was was huge. It was it was great. And they I mean, and you fought for two world titles with them, I mean how big. I mean people talk nowadays, everybody kind of looks at titles sort of in a negative light, at something secondary title this, people criticized titles. But for you winning that first world title, what did that mean to you as as part of your journey? It was great? I mean, okay, good quote. That's when people ask me that, I don't know, I think they expect me to say a whole speech of how how I found and how great it was. I put my I put my covers of sports illustrated on the wall, like that's my world title. Like that's I mean, my world titles and the two of the two other in turn belts that I've won. All four of those bouts are sitting on the floor in my bedroom, not that I don't care about them, but it's just that first world title. It was. It was satisfying, That's all I can say. It was satisfying, But it's because I'm so competitive and there's so much more that I want. One bout is nothing to me. I want to be undisputed at one oh five, one weight and one twelve, so I I give myself no credit. Yet I think once I'm once I accomplished that, then I'll be happy with myself. And you went, I mean when you were younger, just trying to get fights, you must have had to jump up and down and weight outside of your weight class a lot just to get some of these fights in the pros. Yes, but I bet I had been doing that since I was an amateur. Um. I would weigh in with my dad's keys and cell phones in my pocket so I can get a fight. Because there wasn't many young girls at the time or women fighting, so I would have to weigh in with all of that stuff in my pocket, all my clothes on, just so I can jump three weight classes and fight someone. Um and that also transitioned into the professionals. UM. I was fighting out of my weight class just all through the beginning of my career and to until I signed with Golden Boy. UM, I was fighting girls who were naturally bantom weights. I was eating and stuffing my face with food just so I can try to get close to the weight so we can make the fight happen. And once I signed with Golden Way, I was able to finally fight girls who were naturally at my weight class, which is when all the knockouts started coming. So I always knew and I had the natural power, I just wasn't able to show it. So if I would have started my career with Golden Boy, I would be with at least eighteen knockouts. One of my favorite nice not favorite, but I like. One of the movies I like is this this movie that James Franco is. He's in the military and he's a boxer and he's on the scale and he's eating a Snickers bar while he's on the scale to get to a weight to fight the guy he's wanted to fight. If you ever had to just pick out to get to within a certain weight range to to take a fight. Oh yeah, I did that at least um. I mean every single fight I had before signing a Golden Boy. I signed with them when I was what twelve, and now I believe, and every single fight because so just so people know, you have to if you're going to fight it, say one fift, you've got to be at one twelve, right, You've got to at least within three pounds of that a different weight class. Yeah, so I would eat um. I remember one time when I fought on I think it was a Chocolo undercard, and I had a gain of health another three pounds just to make that weight limit so the fight can happen. And I had my dad ran to McDonald's. I had a whole mile double cheeseburger fries, uh down. The whole gatorade still wasn't enough, so he went to Randy's Donuts and got me this giant bear claw and a huge milk. It was disgusting. I wanted to throw up, but I had to. I had to do it and ended up barely making the weight. So, I mean, things like that are just it's funny to now when I look back and I think, like, what was I What was I thinking fighting these girls who were so freaking huge. Oh, Like, I'm I'm insane for doing that. But at the same time, it's what I wanted to do. It's what I had to do in order to build my record and to stay active and bear claw and McDonald's. It would take me three days to get that out of my system with myself. Oh and then when I fought as Sparsa, even though that was a hundred and twelve pounds, I was still walking around at I don't know, maybe one ten um. So when I fought as spars A fight leak, I was at the buffet at the MGAM eating pizza every day, and I still waiting at what was it one maybe one ten point something. On fight night, I was one oh nine. I went back down. So, I mean, those are just things that I had to go through that now just make everything they make. All the success now just feel even sweeter knowing that I went through all that crap. You've spent the last few years with Golden Ball. You've been off for eleven months in part because you decided to separate from Golden Boy and have signed with Top Rank I know there's a lot you can't say about what happened there, but was it disappointing to you know, growing you know, growing up a fan of Oscar to not have it work out with Golden Boy. Yes, it was very disappointing. Um, I mean, I don't know what else to say other than it just we just couldn't come to an agreement as far as how much money I wanted. And um, I mean, I wasn't asking for a million dollars of fight. I was not even asking anything close to that. But um, but hey, I'm back and I'm with Top Rank, and I got um a great deal with Top Rank. It's what I wanted and it's what i've with what I feel I deserve. And this these past eleven months, I felt like I was missing out on so much because I'm just so competitive, Like I want to fight all the champions. I want to have unification fights, I want to be undisputed, and this year I wasn't able to do that. So I felt like I just I just wasted a whole year. And then now that I'm back, I think totally different differently because I see how great of a year woman's boxing had starting off with Katie and Serrano and just continuing on with all these other big, great matchups. And now I think to myself, you know that those eleven months were not wasted at all, because I'm back ending the year that was already an incredible year for woman's boxing. There's no better time to come back in women's boxing than right now. And all that time that I was off, I was still in the gym, sparring to stay sharp, working on things that I wanted to improve on. So nothing, no, there was There was no time wasted at all. I think a lot of people when they saw you were going to be a free agent, assumed you would sign with Mattroom. Match Room as largely cornered the market on women's boxing, probably control of the top women's boxes that are out there across across continence, whether it's Alicia Bomb Garner here in the U, s KT Taylor in the UK, Empty Bridges fights from Australia. What was the process like in deciding who to sign with next? I love Eddie and I think he does an incredible job with women's boxing, and I even told him that. And when I met with Eddie, the one thing like I always love and respect about Eddie is that he not only did he say like I mean, he told me he's like, of course I would I want to sign you. I would love to sign you, and I will if if you know, it comes to that. But he also gave me advice, which is what I appreciated so much, is that he gave me advice as to what I should do as far as UM making the right decision with a promoter. And when I found out that Top Rank wanted to sign me, not only was it deal great, but it just made so much more sense. Eddie doesn't have any minimum weights, light flyweights or flyweights. If you would have signed me, I know for a fact he would have signed more women at my weight class. Of course for me. UM. But the whole everything, just everything about the deal with Top Rank just all came together. And then the the ESPM platform, I feel like it's being from l A and Mexican American. I just feel it's a perfect platform and it's where I belong. Did it surprise you that Top Rank was interested at first? Um? They have done a great job with MICHAELA promoted her the entirety of her pro career. But at the time she was the only women's boxer as part of their company, and we were just months removed from Bob Aram having some critical comments about women's boxing. When you first got the call from someone at Top Rank, what was your reaction, I was, I was pretty surprised. I mean, I know that I'm a perfect, a perfect um fighter to sign as far as to represent woman's boxing and with Top Rank, like I know, but like you said, they have not signed any other females besides Michaelis. So I was a little surprised that they were really interested in signing me and they Bob's comments didn't bother me at all about women's boxing. I mean, um, what promoter hasn't said anything negative about women's boxing? Um, But it just it all came together and I'm just so grateful to be back with Top Rank. And I've always been a fan of Michaelis, not just in a professional career, but in the amateurs as well. So I've always watched every Michaela fight, and I've always recognized how well they've moved her career in the pros. I thought they've they've done such a great job with her as far as promotion, marketing, and putting the money into her and putting taking all the risks that they needed to take in order to make sure that people know and people know who she is. And I thought that was always amazing of everything that they put into I always noticed that. So I always thought to myself, if I was a top rank like I know they would they would back me up in that way and put all that they possibly could into me. What has your Bob Arram experience been? Like? Bob is great. He's a funny guy. It's funny, sweet guy. I can't wait to spend more time with him. And he'll look he'll whatever he said about women's boxing before, he'll go out there and promote you. He he'll be ringside at your fight, he'll be at your press conferences, He'll he'll promote his old School'll know if you're part of his stable, he's going to go out there and promote you, even at almost ninety one years old, as best as he can. He's at every single fight, and he's sitting there even during the undercar fights that aren't even that aren't even televised, Like that just shows how how much he puts into his promotional company. So he returned to the ring on Saturday. And this is a comeback fight. It's a defense of your hundred and five pound title. In your mind, what does look like for you? It's twe is going to be a huge year for me. Um, get past this fight. Argentinian fighters are tough. My opponent I already know is going to come to win. For sure. Everyone who faces me has their biggest opportunity to defeat the underdog and take the spotlight. And who wouldn't want to come in to defeat me? So I know she's coming to win, which I don't. I don't take any of my opponents lightly because of that. So get through this fight and have my first unification fight and UM early is our plan with the WBC World champion from Germany. After that, hopefully have another unification fight at one oh five and then I'll have all the bouts at one oh five. So are my plan at the end of the year is to have my first fight at want to wait and start UM unifying there and top rank is right behind me with all that willing to make it happen. So and with all the big fights happening in women's boxing, a rematch with you and Marlin spars is still massive. You guys obviously have some spiciness to your to the rivalry. They're uh still which is quite frankly great. I mean, we saw what the nastiness between Alicia bomb Gardner michaelamar did for that fight. Everybody was was eager to see those two get in the ring. Um, I assume that's still very much on your radar to to do a rematch with Marlon at one twelve. Definitely, I still want to rematch with the Sparza. Um. I want to just shut her up once and for all. I want that to happen, And that's definitely still all my radar for sure. Felicia keeps winning and keeps getting all the bets, so it's a big money fight for both of both of you. Like, that's a huge, huge event. If that can happen sometime in the next year, you'd have last thing for you. Um, what's like people talk all the time. I heard Claressa Shields talking this week about it. Maybe she'd like Katie Taylor, like like the dream hypothetical fight. We used to see it in men's boxing with Manny pacquil at Oscite haway and nobody thought they would ever fight. They did, and it turned out to be a huge moment. I doubt Claressa and Katie fight. But you know what we can we can dream about that is there like a way up and wait, way above your weight class, like end of your career, like a dream fight for you. That like let's roll the dice and see what happens at a different way. Yeah. If I were to just take a huge risk and just face an opponent way out of my well, I would do it out of my weight class, So I would say a bantom weight. I would want to fight Ebony Bridges. I love Evany. I think she doesn't great. Evany, you do an amazing job at just promoting yourself and not giving a ship what anybody thinks. I think, um, it would be a fight that the fans would love. Um. I feel like the promotion for the fight would be great. So and then of course it's a huge risk for me because I'm so much smaller, So it would be an exciting fight. I would eat. Yeah, I would eat my way up. I would um. I mean, I'll have a very happy training camp. I would be at McDonald's every day. Now that sounds like something Sergio would say that sounds like something at McDonald's every day. You must remember some some of his weight cuts, like he he's told me many stories about the cut for Forest too, when he had to take the rematch. What do you remember about that? Um? Well, I remember Sergio just just not I mean I I I couldn't believe how how he just how the fight was just so um so soon. I mean as far as how much time he had to prepare. And uh, Sergio, he loses weight in not a very healthy way. You don't say, you don't say, but I don't. I don't take any weight loss advice from Sergio, that's for sure. He always says he lost that fight on the scale, even though he didn't lose it on scale. I actually made one fifty four. But he always said I was a zombie after that, but I weigh in he was, Yeah, Himlas died. Dean found him underneath. He was trying to lose weight and Dean found him passed out, just arms just spread wide open, laying on the floor. Dean walked up to him and thought he was dead and like he was like, there's no way You're like, we have to. Dean was like, I have to get him through this fight without him getting hurt or knocked out. So good thing Surgeon's footwork in defense came through because that kept him from, you know, getting knocked down as dying. As a friend of Sergio's, do you support or you against his passionate desire to fight Jake Paul in a fight. Oh my gosh, um, I would love to see that. Yeah, I would love to see Jake Paul just hit Surgeon with right hand and just put him down. I've told it's too big a risk for him, like if he gets caught with like I mean, even at forty two, Sergio has kinesial tape all over his body. He's like a mummy. But even at is probably a better boxer than Jake. But if your feet aren't there and he hits you with something like that's your career Like that, that's how you're not the contender winner anymore. You're not a world champion, You're the X champion got knocked out by Jake Paul. Just stay retired, keep commentating. I would love to see. I would I would love to see the ship talk that Jake would go after Surgery with It would be amazing. I think they both would like. The build up would be like there's like maybe Tommy Fury, but there's very few boxers that would talk the way Surgeon could talk, and a build up for a fight like that. He would run his mouth daily on every social media and Sergio Sergio's training camp would be incredible. He'd smoke cigars before and after training sessions. He would um, you know, just be the typical Surgio gambling and smoking cigars, drinking beer. Would Dean Campos take him back? I don't know about that. Dean would definitely be in the corner a only because he's concerned that Sergio would be taken out of the ring in a freaking stretcher if he wasn't there in in Sergill's corner. So yes, Dean would definitely be there. Well, hopefully we're not going to that fight anytime. Seen uh. Saniza Strata back this Saturday defending her Hunter and five pound titles. Welcome back and thanks for joining me. Thank you. I am now your highest rated Mexican guests over. Sorry, Sergio, that's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Kevin Ioli and Sanissa Strata for joining the show. As always, subscribe rate Review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, of Spotify, wherever you download podcast, and we'll see you next week.