The volume. It's Boxing with Chris Mannox presented by FanDuel. Football Season underway. Basketball is right around the corner and there is no better place to get it on that action than Fan Duel. The app is safe, secure and easy to use. FanDuel always has exclusive offers. When you win, you'll get paid fast. Fandulis a lot of ways to play, like the spread, money, line over under team totals, player props, and so much more. Jump into the action at any time during the game with live betting, combine multiple bets from the same game in a same game parlay, and try out the same game parlay plus. So use the promo code Boxing and download the Fan Duel app today to make every moment more during this football season and get ready. NBA season is right around the corner. This is boxing with Chris Manning or somebody punch him in the face. Anthy Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher. What's this heavy? Posted by s is Chris Mannix. That was my moments now with interviews, analysis and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix. All right, welcome back, to boxing with Chris Mannix, part of the Volume Sports podcast network. We've got a great show for you this week. I am coming to you from Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates. I am here as part of the broadcast team for The Zone fight Dmitri Bevil Gilberto Ramirez terrific fight. I'm gonna get into that and much more with my guest this week, Adi Oladipo, a broadcaster with the Zone, is a lot of other media over in the UK. He's gonna join me, Eddie Hearn, the promoter of this event. He's gonna join me to run through a whole bunch of topics. So we get a lot to get to on this show. But I did want to start off the top by bringing attention to something I saw last week. Last week on the under hard of the show headlined by William Zapeta and Joejoe Diaz, you had a super bantam weight fight between two undefeated prospects, Hector Valdez, who was the Golden Boy promoted prospect, and Max Ornelas, who is a free agent prospect also undefeated, both fifteen. Oh uh. They fought in the first fight of that telecast and look, I'm not gonna sit here and say it was a great fight, but this was a fight that Max Ornelas clearly won. Uh. He controlled the ring with his movement, he landed more punches, his combination punching was effective. The eyeball test just told you that he won the fight. Yet at the end of the fight, two of the three judges scored the fight for Valdez seven to ninety three. They effectively gave Hector Valdez seven of the ten rounds. That's lunacy. We're gonna name these judges too. Ryle Kayez Sr. Was the judge. Ala Andro Rosian was the other judge to score guards outrageous in my opinion, sitting there, I bring this up because this happens way too much in boxing, and when this happens, you've got the lives of fighters that are screwed, negatively impacted. I spent some time talking to Max ro and a last during the week. He knew how big a moment this was for him. He knew that if he won this fight, he was probably gonna get signed by Golden Boy, he would be ranked in the top ten pound rankings, and he would have some structure to his career after operating without much over the last few years. Now he doesn't have it. He's not going to get signed by Golden Boy. He's probably not going to get a rematch. I give the w B a credit. They're one of the sanctioning bodies. I criticize a lot, but in the aftermath of this fight, they actually ranked or Naila in the top ten because they saw what everybody else saw in that Max won that fight. I just bring this up because we can't forget when stuff like this happens, because this is the true awfulness of boxing. Because at the main event level, if a guy loses a fight and the scorecards are if he more likely than not. If a guys fighting in the main event, he's gonna get other opportunities. It sucks for him, don't get me wrong, but he's gonna get other opportunities. Max Ornelas may not get opportunities like that. Again, he might not. Um hopefully he does, because I hope other promoters watching saw that he's a talent at ono and deserves uh to be signed and promoted the proper way. But there are countless examples of fighters like or Nalas who have been robbed by judges and wind up losing tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars some case millions of dollars in long term earnings because of poor judging. Max Anilis won the fight last weekend. He did. I'm not saying this to criticize Valdez, who was a good fighter. He just didn't know what to do with Ornelas in that fight. His movement killed him. He couldn't cut the ring off and that's why he deserved to lose or Nailas deserved to win, and he didn't. And we need to pay attention when ship like this happens, because there's too much bad judging out there and too little accountability when there is bad judging and boxing. So let's remember when situations like this happened, who the judges are and what the responses from the commissions, from the promoters, from everybody involved when bad judging happens in our sport. All right, that's my speech to top the show. Now my conversation with ad Oladipo. All right, have you been able to sleep yet? No? Struggled, struggled us just all over the place. There is no normal gun to bed at ten, waking up at seven, get in my good eight nine hours. It's like waking up at two while I'm up at two in the morning. I don't understand. I felt awful. We're recording this ada Ala depots here do Zone Broadcaster does a great job for the network. Um, I we're recording this on Friday morning. I'm still completely fine. Is it Friday? It's it's Friday. It's officially it's Friday morning in Abu Dhabi. We're an Abu Dhabi. This side of Dmitri Bevil versus Ramira is w a light heavyweight title fight, and hopefully by Saturday night we have to be I will be will be ready to go. And this is straight Like normally coffee does it for me, Like you know, normally a part, not a cup, by the way, a pot of coffee. And I'm like yes, but no, it's not. It's having the opposite effect. For some reason. How is caffeine making me full of sleep? That's when you know there's a problem. Well, I've been waking up at like three in the morning the last two nights, and like the only thing Netflix will let me stream is Seinfeld just just streaming old it's something else. But we are here in Abu Dhabi where Bevil ramier As will take place on Saturday, Onto Zone. You know. Being here in this region again, I was here for a j Ruise Part two, it got me thinking like, is this the future of boxing where all big events are going to take place in the Middle East? Because we've had a J fight twice here Beavil Ramirez. Eddie Hern made it clear this is the first of several more to come Championship Series championship level fights in Abu Dhabi, and it seems at least possible that Tyson, fury Ax and Usk winds up here at some point next year. Is this just kind of the future of boxing now? Yeah, it seems so right. I mean, look, I don't want it to be. I think you missed the hardcore fans, the working class fans that needed in the sport, whether it be in America, we get the Mexicans to Puerto Ricans, the um in English, get the English fans. They're gonna miss out. But yeah, I mean, look at the events that you just mentioned that have happened, events that are going to happen. If a J so if you're Osi happens, it will happen over here. The money on offer is too big, and these guys seem to be able to splash the cash without no fear of the fight not making a profit. Once you can do that and a promoter knows you can do that, they're gonna want to come and bring the events here all the time. So yeah, it's a shame. I mean, I was at the AGA Sick as well, and it's a different type of atmosphere as to what it was in Top Noman. I know people are gonna say, but to them was the biggest state because it's bad. It's not good like a j Ruise two af after being an AJA Ruise one Mason Square Garden, which was one of, if not the best atmospheres I've ever been in all the boxing. Do you go from that to a j Ruise to where it just felt like you're I don't know how to describe it. It It was a bunch of people there that weren't really invested in the product, and when you have that, you don't get any kind of real energy in the crowd. No, no, no, And I'm not going to mention names, but I've been I was out last night and speaking to people that are trying to get on the guest list to come. No interest in boxing. I just want to be at an event, honestly, no interest in boxing. As weird here in the names. I'm like, you don't know or like boxing, But yeah, I just want to be here because there's an event in Abu Dhabi and that's what you're gonna get. Um. So it is a shame that it's happening. But look, boxing's are a worldwide sport, and in order to grow the sport, I guess it needs to go to places like here. Do you buy that though? Like Eddie says that a lot like trying to grow the sport. I look, Eddie's a great promoter. I don't know that he cares so much about growing the sport as much as he cares about the big paycheck. No, no, no no, you're right actually on that, because I've questioned Eddie and I said, well, why we're not doing events in Africa? Where are boxers out there and fans of the sport out there? Why you're not going there? The simple reasons because there's no money, So you want to grow the sport, Let's do smaller events in Africa. To show and prove that you want to grow the sports. So I'm with you. It's a lot of bs, but it just seems as though this is all inevitable. I mean, you mentioned the Championship Series. They're going to do more events here. Every fighter seems to want to come here because they know the paychecks are bigger. And I don't blame the fighters, but the promoters need to get ahold of it because we can't miss out on those big events at the O two Arena in London. MSG. You know traditional boxing hubs, and I think they're the ones that are missing out on great fights like this. Like like the people of Abu Dhabi really care about Bibul Ramirez, you know, Okay would care. People in southern California there, you would care. There you go, it's a massive like everywhere fighting. I've walked around and I barely see a poster about it. People don't really know about it. People don't know what's happening, So it's a shame. Well, there's a lot of branding on the way in. Like on the drive from Dubai to Abu Dhabi felt like every quarter mile there was some kind of poster on the way and so there was some decent branding. But as I'm driving in, I'm wondering, who are they branding to, Like, it's not there's a lot of buildings out here, not a lot of people in those buildings. No, no, no, right, I've tried to at cheap property here because it's empty. Everything is available, right. But um, as long as the fighters, and I've always said that the fighters first, the fans second. I know it's probably a mix of that, but as long as the fighters are getting paid, and they were happy to quickly mention thank you to Abu Dhabi yesterday in their press conference, as they should. Big check coming, the check for all of them, everyone in the fight cards. So I think, to answer your initial question, this probably is the future of the sport. Is there any way to counteract it in your mind? Because I've been thinking about this for a few days now, and for years we had promoters trying to get into the Middle East, and he was, if not the first, one of the first, certainly the first to bring a big event in many, many years to the Middle East. And now that we're there, the floodgates are kind of open now, and I don't know how you close them. I don't know how you can convince fighters to take sixties seventy cents on the dollar in order to have an event in London or in New York or in Las Vegas. Big This might be a little bit different because of the site fees. You can probably still get big time events there. But as long as there are you know, look, I don't know what the total number for of the money Abu Dhabi's putting up for this event, but it's got to exceed ten million dollars at least. Oh yeah, absolutely, And if you are a fighter, I mean I heard so many fighters yesterday in the press confidence and this is like a holiday. They're loving out here. The families are out here, They're not going to not want to come out here, so you're getting paid more. The weather is great. They like being out here because they always feel that they can get their job done without being disturbed by friends and family. I find it difficult to convince a fight fan or fighter apologies to not want to be out here and get a bit more cheat out or do it in Sheffield, no disrespect to Sheffield. What do you want to do? You want to find Abu Dhabi? Do you want to fight in Sheffield or leads you don't want to fight Abu Dhabi. So yeah, it's gonna be difficult to reverse it. I just hope that some promoters or maybe some of the big name fighters that already get paid twenty thirty million income think okay, look, we're getting paid enough, let's do one at home. But I doubt it, City doubt it. I don't think it's happens either. I think this is where we're gonna wind up coming consistently over the next few years. As long as Middle Eastern countries want to be in the business, they're gonna be able. That's the scary thing. By the way, as long as they want to be in the business, um, and I'm listen, they do want to because they want it, to use it as a tool to attract tourism. But how long do they want to be in the boxing business? Is this just a thing for them? It ain't change anytime soon? Well, let's hope not, because it's not aund and it's lovely. Look, I mean as much as beautiful, as much as we know haven't got our sleep patterns correct, just walking around, the weather, the food, it's a nice place to be that's great. Right before I went to bed at five, I walked the UM, I want to get into the people. Ramire is fighting a couple of other things, but I want to get your take on something we saw this week Turns Crawford Errol Spence uh on the negotiating table. Earlier in the wee, Crawford signed on to fight David Avenecian on a new network called BLK Prime. Errol Spence is set to announce his next opponent at some point in the coming days. But these two guys, they got on Twitter and they talked all about hedge funds and who has our boss and who doesn't, and certain amount of splits and revenue all things. They gotta be honest. By the third tweet made my eyes completely glaze over. What was your take on I'm so happy you just said that, Because I remember the first tweet. I was like, oh, Terence has woken up and he said I want to have war. This is exciting. And then Errol responded ter Twitter war Twitter as opposed to physically yeah, And I was like, I'm tired, I'm done. I I I all I cared about was seeing you guys in the ring and not this he said, she said back and forth, Bs Terrence. The idea of Terrence fighting errols for so many years because he's on that side of the street. And I remember him sitting down right it might have been after the Brook fight, and you know, basically pointing the finger at Bob and said, I'm leaving you because you couldn't get me the Errol fight. And although Bob to some people is a bit of a dinosaur on the sport, I thought that was actually quite disrespectful. And I was like, Okay, this is it. Now, he's gonna get the fight. He's already you know, he's pointed up Bob, you couldn't do it. I'm gonna go over there and I'm gonna get it done. That was a year and a half ago, and here we are now and there's no fight. There's no fight, and they probably will not be a fight. I mean, I like Terrence, but what's he thirty four? Errol looks like he's far too big for one four seven. Now, there was a time to make that fight and it's not happening. In boxing loses out because it would have been one of the best weight fights we've ever seen. It would have been that good. So ultimately I don't know who's wrong and who's right, but we miss out fight fans miss out because it was something special and that there, that alone should be putting some sort of museum, and and it should be to be labeled boxing. That right, there's boxing, right. Well, I think it was Michael Benson who kind of put together all this. Yes, like you should just print that out yea, and and shrine it boxing embarrassing for these guys. Oh, it's ridiculous. Honestly, it's it's so bad. Um. But this is this is kind of, unfortunately, what we've just come to expect. When a big fight gets announced. It's almost a jaw dropping moment for us, like wow, you know, like, oh can of plants can fight? That's why I felt this morning. I was like, what where does that come from? And that's how it should be. Forget all the negotiate. We don't we as much as fans like to be carried along sometimes the negotiating. Sometimes we just want to fight announced. Sometimes it is good to know what goes on behind the scenes because you know who's getting this and who's getting But ultimately, all we want to see is a fight post Star Fight announced fantastic and that's how it should be. All this back and forth crap, blaming our Hayman, blaming this person, blaming that person. I'm just tired of it. And yeah, I feel like Terrence smisses out because Terence as much as for me, Terence is one of the best fighters ever. You do look at the resume and thing, okay, where all those elite level wins, and he wanted one and he probably would have got one. I think, so he misses out more. But it's a shame, isn't happen, especially since he moved up to welter. Right, the resume is incredibly beat Jeff Horne for his title. He defended against B level fighters like Agis Kavelaski's uh kell Brook and Hinstein looks a little bit better names, but not top level, top five, top ten level opponents. He does miss out a little bit. I mean, I've always felt if he really is getting ten million dollars plus to fight David Avenecian on some network that's not going to sell more than twenty five pay per view guys for it, more power to him. I would make sure I got that check in escrow. That's for sure, I'd want to make sure that money's upfront. But if he can get that to just Clawbert David Avenecian, which no one's gonna convince me that's not going to be the outcome, Like David Avenues is gonna walk into a bomb at some point and go down. Um, so if he can get ten million dollars for that, good for you. But I feel like that was the final nail in the Spence Crawford column. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it has to be again, as I said, one because of age two, because now there clearly is an issue with both of the fighters in terms of negotiating. So there's like beef between the two and I honestly believe Errol will probably fight Keith and then I think er will probably move up or what. I can't believe Errol is still at one forty seven. He was in the Olympics at one fifty two, makes like and he went down. You don't often see that from guys at the Olympic level. Usually it's the progressive move up. I mean, he is a hugeound, massive and we know for a few years he didn't live the life either, right, you'd see him out of events and just behaving like a bit of a kid, but now he looks like he's sort of knuckled down and lives that life. But yeah, he's massive for one full seven and that's why I felt like it had to happen now now. So yeah, I think we miss out on it. And it's, Um, it's a massive shame for boxing, It really is, because that's the fight. I mean, obviously, look, we we work for his own but I always tweets and that's the fight I want to see more than any of them, um, regardless of the network we're on. So yeah, it's a big shame that we ain't gonna say it. Well, the lesson and the takeaway to me is don't do that. Don't go on Twitter and start like letting the receipts out on the table, like don't it doesn't you're not going to convince anybody, Like people that believed Crawford was the reason for Spence Crawford blowing up are not going to be convinced by Crawford declaring that he had a fifty million dollar offer from a hedge fund, which is a little shady to begin with. And meanwhile, Crawford fans are not going to believe Spence's take on it either, like all you're doing is further solidifying your fan bases and doing it on a website that is just a cesspool for all the worst. Honestly, I'd love to know who's behind Crawford that made him think this is the right thing to do. I don't understand, like sometimes you go that person showed that says let's leave it. We we we know, we know the real ones. No, just leave it. The idea of them going back and forth everyone was well and housn't responded, so he must mean them true. Everl then wakes up what I'm not responded, I'm gonna respond now. It's just silly. It was all dumb, all dumb. All right, let's talk about the event that is happening this weekend. Be Evil against Ramirez, and this is a great fight and a great card. I actually liked this fight a lot better than the fight did he Hearne wanted, which was Bevil versus Blats. I think Ramirez is much more competitive. He obviously is much more deserving as a former hund sixty eight pound trap who has gone through whatever the w b A has told him to go through, even though these guys he fought were terrible, like that's who the w b A told him to fight, and he ultimately fought him. The question is how competitive do you think this fight is? Bevil is coming off the wind over Canelo Alvarez Ramirez. I believe it's five and oh since it's moved up to light heavyweight. But as I said, he has not fought elite competition. He fought what was left of Sullivan Barrera, he fought you know, what was left of Unski Gonzalez, Dominic Bozlona where he came from, but he fought him. Um, how competitive do you think this fight is going to be? Quite competitive? In the honest of you, although you read off those names and they're not, by any stretch of the imagination elite like heavyweights. I think I don't think we've seen the best of Ramiroors. I think there's still a few more gears to come from him. Um, he's very, very big. I couldn't quite believe that big he was. I interviewed Bivil for the Zone and then interviewed Ramires immediately after, so I kind of gauged a size a bit better, and he's a big man. He looks like he's actually struggling at the weight. I could tell he was almost He's huge, like he's going he's going to rehydrate above two hundred pounds easily, easily, and he's going to try and walk you down. He's a self poor, but I think Bivill could be a bit special. There's something ab up Pivil. He's now sort of found himself as well. I think he's confident. He's English is a lot better by the way, which surprised me. Not that that helps his boxing ability by any stretch of imagination, but I think he's just becoming a man in front of us um and a very skillful man. And I think I think people's eyes were open to him from the Canello performance, but people should maybe have done their homework a bit and looked at the other fights against Jean Pascal and Joe Smith and realized that this is a good boxer. And when he needs to go through the gears, I've noticed he can do it very quickly. Now when he needs to kind of okay, I need to maybe do a bit more here, he seems to be able to do it. Um. I think he'll struggle early, just with the size and trying to work out Ramirors. But once he starts to kind of gauge distance and size and maybe test, maybe even get hit with something just to kind of feel the power, I think we are going to see a Bivil that is I don't want to say the number one because I think that's perturb but it's definitely number two in the division. The key to me is how does Ramiras use that size us. He's gonna try to walk him down. That's his game plan. All his team this week, I've talked about that being his game plan. We've seen him do it time and again. Bevil, though, is really good against that type of style. I mean, we called the Joe Smith fight several years ago. Joe Smith is a pressure fighter. And besides that one shot in the eleventh round where Smith buckled Beable and if he gave him ten more seconds, who knows what, but it happened. But besides that moment, he lost every round it was. It was a complete wipeout. And you know, talking to to Beable's team this week, they know he's got to move. He can't stand there and try. He's not going to stand there. And so like if if Ramirez is capable of cutting the ring off, walking bevil down, throwing the kind of volume combinations we've seen him throw in other fights. I give him half a chance, but that's gonna be difficult. Like Ramirez, I think he's talented. His best wins, though, came against Jesse Hart, like those are the best wins on his resume, and at light heavyweight, he hasn't had the opportunity, not through his own fault. He's he's fought who's had too as we said, but at light head be weight, he has not had the opportunity to test himself at the highest level. So this will be I think Gilberto Ramiror is going from B level opponents to an A A plus level opponent one fight. Yeah, which doesn't mean he can't be up there with an A A plus, right, because what he's beating all the B level opponents. But you're right, I mean it's it's probably the most misleading forty four and record there is or has ever been in the sport, right, I mean four and those sounds incredible, But then you look at the resume and there it's Jesting Hart, it's off Abraham at one six eight, and that's it. You can shut the door on the rest, whereas bivil is just I just think he could be a special fighter. Bivil um that there's something about him. He's calmness, he's so confident. Now Um, I think we have something special and I think he's gonna again go through the gears. I think he'll struggle in the first three or four rounds, just adapting to the south ball, adapting to the size. As you say, Ramires will be in there plus two hundred in terms of weight. But once he kind of gets all those things down, I think we're gonna see something special and I think he's going to run away with it. I think this could be I don't know, nine free eight for something like that. And one thing I've seen a Bible over the years is that he gets up for a higher level of competition. He got up for that fight against Joe Smith. He got up big time for that fight against Canelo. This is a former sparring partner of his in into Ramirez. It's a title defense. He knows what's next for him next year. If he wins, he can potentially face either Canelo or Archer. Better bief two massive money, massive proceigure at all plus I also think it's a home run. If he beats Erto Ramirez, Bible's the fighter of the year, Like I think, I don't think anyone as well, I said, I said, and he said, I don't think so I said, no, no, you are, I said, I'm the judge and jury. I don't know who doesn't know who's even because guys aren't fighting mostly. Yeah, ma'am Rodriguez, shout right free fights this year as well. You've gotta have a shout for free fights. But I mean for you to beat Cannelo and then Zurdo back to back, you have to be fight of the that's the highest level. Beat the former pound for pound king, beating undefeated Zodora Mirror as your top of the list. Um. The co main event is interesting to me, and that's because most women's fights nowadays are interesting because women are doing it out there with making top fights where men are just talking about them. Jessica mccaskell, a lot of people that listen to the show in the US have become more familiar with her. She did lose to Katie Taylor a few years ago, but since then she's had two wins over Cilia Breakers to become the undisputed champion at forty seven pounds. Now she's dropping down to face Chantel Cameron for the undisputed championship at one forty For the record, nice bit of politicking by match Room and Rick Ramos to the people in involved with this, because I don't know why it is for undisputed, like the other two belts were vacated by Kaylee Reyes because she got a better offer for HBO to be an actress, And how they almost just grabbed those two belts without people fighting for them and said we'll take them and put them on this fight carta range. Honestly, I find it weird, but look, ultimately I do think it's the two best girls potential. Chantell definitely at one for because she's proven it, and I think Jessica McCaskill in the past is all there, So ultimately you are probably looking at the two best and sweat glass anyway, Um now that how good? How good is Chantel Cameron because McCaskill, I've seen a lot of pressure fighter good conditioning. Uh. I wouldn't call her heavy handed per se, but in terms of she's not a one punched knockout artist, not a lot of women in boxing are, but she can hurt you and has her previous opponents, including the last one who quite literally quit in the middle of and said, I want to go home to my kids. I don't want to do this anymore. She effectively retired her so unbelievable. I've never seen that. I had to I was sitting ringside, like ten ft away. I'm walking over and I'm trying to get someone to translate what she's yelling at her manager down below. It was wild to see that. But that was a feather in the cap of Jessica McCaskill. How good is she? Ante Cameron? Very good? Honestly very good. It's weird everything you just said there about Jessica McCaskill pressure fight had come forward. I was like, is he talking about Chantell there or Jessica, because Santel pretty much mirrors that. I don't think she has the power that jess does, but not many fighters in women's boxing do. Bomb Garden and Savannah maybe but Jessic definitely. Jessica definitely has more power. But I think Chantell is definitely the better boxer of the two. I've seen Chantell's spa dies and handle herself and yes, look they're not tearing up as they shouldn't do. But in terms of the movement, in terms of the clinch, she's strong, very big at the weight, which might not be a positive. We'll get to that, just because I feel like she balloons up and wait a lot, like really balloons up and wait and then sort of shrinks herself down to one faulty. But she is very very good and in the UK people have been begging to see her versus Katie Taylor because they think she's the one that should and can beat Katie Taylor. So look, she's very good, very confident, trained by Jamie Moore, She's in a good camp, she's around good people, and I think they think this is her time. I think they think that you know, Jesse has maybe had her time was just right around there. Yeah, I think you might be thirty. Yeah, yeah, And I think they think that Chantel is now sort of the freshmen of the two and the one that's going to go on. But how answerting to you is that ballooning up and wait, because I've heard that too from you know, different people around match room and around the UK boxing scene. And whereas you see McCaskill, and even though she was fighting at welterweight, she was fighting making one is not a problem for she really is a natural hundred and forty pounder with chantel Like, is it a concern that between fights maybe she's not as disciplined she needs to be. Yeah, I think I always think, I don't care who you are. I think that will come to her. You've done down the line. We send fighters live like that, and it just it doesn't work. I've never understand it, like this is a short career. Do whatever you want to do after after boxing, when you're done, you meant he is fighting in between fight camps, live like a fight and live like an athlete. That's the problem with fighters in general. It's almost like they feel because they only fight two or three times here like their part time athletes, and they can do whatever they want. You can't, especially when it comes to make him wait. But I think this camp, like seeing her fight Bustos and seeing at in between fight campus in and now, I think this is probably as disciplined that she's been. So she's obviously taking this very very seriously, and she knows she has to because in front of hers a dog in Jessica McCaskill, which surprised me why jess mcask was such an underdog in this one. But um, I think for this fight, I don't think it will matter going forward. They've got to put they've got to put a stop to it. But I think for this fight, she's really trained a butt off, so I think I think she's good for this one. I think she is. Where does the winner of this fight in your mind land in the Katie Taylor QE Like you know, Gaty is Katy looks and starts to assess what the best fights are for Look, if she fights the winner of this, she'd have a chance to become an undispeeded champion in two weight classes. You know, Katie is consumed by the legacy, consumed by being in big fights. She's been in with Jessica before. That could be a decent US fight if she wants to go back and fight there. But I would assume a match up with Chantel would be huge in the UK. Yeah, that's that's the one. I think. If jess wins, I don't I don't think they're going to try and go down the Katie Taylor Jessica mcaskull route again. I don't know why. I know Jesse's desperate for it. I don't think Katie is so much. Why would you go and revisit a fight you've already won. Maybe that's her, that's her thinking, um. But if Chantell wins, she's desperate. My MO only sort a question with that. And I spoke to Katie about this already, about going up and wait again, she's only been up to one forty one and I was against Lindadatu and she didn't like it. She she got bullied in that fight a lot, so one thirty five is perfect for her. You get fighters like that. I always thought, remember watching Carl Frogbacker the day at one six eight, never wanted to go to one seven five when I thought it was there one six eight. My weight class start within in a way, there you go. I don't think it made a big difference of the Canella fight, but he's a hundred and sixty pounds and I think Katie is as well. Kat He's just I'm a one thirty five. So it goes back to that weight discussion with Chantel. If Shantell wants to fight Katie, I think Shantell have to go down to one, she will, or maybe you could do it like one thirty six. Yeah, I mean weight classes, that's kind of what they do. But I think they want the Shantell one. Look, Katie wants to go to Croake Park. I spoke to her after her last fight, and that's what she wants the shed. I know Katie is the star, and Katie can probably do eighty thousand tickets, but you need the right dance partner. And I think as much as Eddie will try and sell the Chantel fight, the only dance partners in Mandaserana, well be be a meteorologist for me. Per second, they're like, when can you do a fight in Croake Park in the way weatherwise? Like when is it okay to do a fight out there? Because that would determine when you can fight their obviously. Yeah, you're looking really between April and August, so that's that's that's the window when you get decent weather. Again, we're in Udhabi. You know you're getting anything like this no matter where in what time in Ireland, but around April two May is when you can do it. And I think that makes sense for Katie Taity. So Katie tele I feel like she might need longer camps now to get into it because she's you saw her fight, you were at her fight. Um, she's still standing in the corner between rounds and that's a leg issue. Like I remember being in the locker room after the Serranto fight and she had been standing for half of it, then sat in between rounds before and I asked Ross Emirate or trainer, and he's like, it's because of the leg the who we're trying to keep it uh from tightening up and causing her more problems. So her standing up between rounds was, is that what it's for? It's a physical thing. Yeah, it's a physical thing. Is we've seen it a little bit of it, I think. I mean, after the fifth round of Serrando fight, you had to sit down because you're just exhausted. But I think physically there's somewhere there and it's still lingering with her to the point where she has to stand up in between these rounds. So the clock is definitely ticking on the prime years peaper. I just wonder, like she loves being active. If we don't know what's gonna happen to Sarano the next few months, she wants to get that fourth piece of the hundred and twenty six pound title. It sounds like the w b A is going to accommodate her and ordered that fight to happen with Erica Cruz. But I'm missing something here, Chris, because I know Jake was talking about this as well, like she was undersized, and looks she clearly was undersized, because she's can make one twenty taller, but she's taller and she's far comfortably at one forty before. Yeah, and I mean, let's but for lots of that fight, she kicked Tailers behind, so I'm like, well, I might like get back in there and do it again, like most people, like I thought Katie might have nicked it. But that could be my sort of my bias towards Katie Taylor. But a lot of people thought Amanda won that fight, So I'm like, roll the dice and go again. Honestly, I thought Katie was her numerous times, and I never really thought Amanda was her. She took some punches, but never thought she was out on her feet. Kati the puncher there. Katie is as much as Katie kind of trained, as was my viewpoint, I as much she kind of trains to sit down on punch and she gets into the fight. She's just kind of not amateurish because she's adapting yeah and point scoring, point scoring that which looks undefeated and she's won a lot of big fights. That works. Amanda sits down on a lot of her punch. She throws a lot of punches too, more than Katie, but she sits down a lot of these shots. She's a hitter, one of maybe three four women top hitters, and another name that they up almost like you see you get that fourth fight joy for the fourth piece thirty pounds time and then you can go up as undisputed her undisputed. That to me makes more sense. If we're gonna do an in between fight for Katie Taylor, I don't I'd rather see her fight Chris Cyborg, Like give her the crossover fight like it's they wanted to do that in Vegas, Like, uh, they were trying to make that this year didn't work out for various reasons. Cyborg wants to fight Katie Taylor, wants to fight Katie Taylor, wins lops fight. I don't care choice bigger Chris Cyborg is Katie Taylor wins that fight lopside. Chris Cyborg tremendous, smartial artist, not a boxer, seems like a wonderful person too, but not a boxer. But that's what Katie deserves, didn't she Like, give her the ugely popular, gimmea over there where, a seven figure paycheck and get herself a high profile but easy whin. Yeah, it's a great shout. I mean they've mentioned her, they mentioned Holly Home as well, but yeah, I'm with you, especially Cyborg had she made her boxing debut, didn't she recently as well, so she's good to go. Um. Funny though, as much as Katie will destroy her, I'd love to have seen Katie versus sort of the version of Cyborg seven years ago, when she literally just was a madman or a mad woman. Apologies, just would have she would have thrown up a thousand punches around that Cybald doesn't exist anymore. But yeah, I agree, give her that an easy fight, and then we wait for Croke Park. We wait to see how all the pieces fall into the puzzle. Um. But I'm desperate to see her versus a manner again. I'm actually desperate to see an MSG that and people got upset when I said that at the interview, just because row Park in nine percent going to be Irish and I didn't mind the split MSG half Porto Rican half Irish and you don't normally get that at boxing events. It normally is sort of one one fan base. Only it's very rare where you're gonna get a fifty fifty split and fans going at each other, and I feel like it deserves that again, but look, the money is going to be at Croke Park. They're gonna go Croak Park. Or did they come out with Dhabi? Did they come to the Middle East? Katie's You know, I don't think that. I don't think that for various reasons, but I don't think is taking that that that roots. I will say this, if you fight to Croak Park, I'm going one way to the other. Because I hear that, uh that the Irish love it when Americans of Irish descent rome the countryside looking for relatives. I hear they like that, love it when you when you do your ancestral history. They want that. They're so proud to kind of show where Mannox is from here and this is where your family report nine point nine percent like I have like one relative from like Finland or something, but everybody else's Irish the country side, So I intend to roam, uh the Irish country side looking for Mannoxis. And you know what the anny thing is. I'm sure that could even be in on a depot somewhere down the line. But what I hope that's her. If it is Croak Park, I hope that's her farewell fight. I really do. I hope that's that. Yeah, I do. I mean I watched her now, you guys want like Bell, you said the same thing that what he said after the Serroonda fight. He wanted that to be want he's desperate fight retire. You guys over the UK seemed to want you to walk away sooner rather than later. Yeah. Yeah, I think we've seen her sort of come out of the Olympics, and I just remember watching her early and how fast she was. And again you mentioned that leg injury. Now obviously that didn't exist, and she's just she was just everything. She was just so quick and I watched her now and she's she's been in wars and I don't think we think of it with female fighters as much as we do with male fighters. But She's been in two wars with off in pursue, a War of Tasha Jonas, a War of Leonardartu, a war war War of the Manda Serrano. I mean, you don't want to see someone take the punishment she takes. She she she's not a defensive minded fighter anymore at all. She gets in there and now and she'll have a warf And I just thought, like, I want to see her go out with all her faculties in place, good money in the bank and maybe continue the boxing journey from from outside of the ropes as opposed to inside them. So yeah, I'm I'm like Tony, I don't know why I've got this connection with her. I feel like enough enough. Well, it's it's funny. You're probably right, but she and I said this antison last week. She might be in the best position of anyone in men's or women's boxing because of all the options she has, the ones we mentioned MICHAELA. Mayor is going moving up in wait. There have been rivals since the Olympic days that would be mentioned. There's a lot of action from it. It's the worst time for her, too cool at quids, like right now, with the price of the women's fights going up and her getting more of my She probably does now, So you're right, there are so many options. But I can see a coming unstuck with someone that a few years ago wouldn't have even NaSTA boots. And that's the that's his boxing, isn't I guess? So we'll see. She's got tough decisions to make, no question, all right, last thing for you, the obligatory what the fund is going on with Connor band question? At this point. The latest development that we saw in the last week was kind of been admitting to testing positive twice now for the same band substance, this fertility drug that is still has still not been explained how it got into a system. They've kind of transitioned to blaming the testing, blaming contamination. People listening in the US that watched a lot of Major League Baseball, we have seen this song before. We have seen this movie before. In Major League Baseball, you had all the great home run hitters from the early part of the two thousands. When they eventually got busted, they were blaming the testing, they were blaming contamination. Most eventually came around and said, yeah, I did it, and you know, cop to it. You know, ten fifteen years later, it just feels a little familiar to hear someone like Connor Ben blaming contamination and potentially blaming some of the testing. Where do things stand with Connor Ben? And what's been your reaction to how he's started to try to explain these this stuff away. Um he's not explaining that well enough. Um, there seems to be. I will tell you, this is me trying to just paraphrase Ben. I'm gonna tell you something, and then oh, I can't tell you the full bit because of legal reasons. You even tell us that you don't tell me, like you can't just do this. I'm going to give you parts of the story, then stop when the questions get difficult and say out for legal reasons, I can't really go down that route because they really aren't either, Like I've asked legal experts this to it, like repeatedly over the years, like if you're innocent, you are allowed to scream your innocence from the Rooftop's one thing I said immediately after I said, Look, as soon as this came out, I said, and I've done a video about it, and maybe connor Ben's team weren't happy about it. But I said, look if you are if anyone accuses me Manna of anything that I've not done, there is no legal team in the world that's gonna shut me up. I'm going to be screaming because my reputation right now is in the mud. I'm not going to rely on lawyers and Eddie Hearn to speak for me. I'm going to come out and speak for myself. And if I say a couple of things wrong, so what I'm going to speak hiding behind people and I think that's the only way I can use a Hiding behind people is just not working for Connor Ben and it's got to the point now where no one believes him. It's the British public. And bear in mind, you know he's a British fighter and we tried to get behind our fighters. No one believes him anymore, and that's it. I said, you might be able to prove somehow that you're innocent in the court of law because of legal ramifications, but in terms of the public, you're done because they don't believe you. The public don't believe you. The public can make or break you in the UK because they won't buy your fights. They won't put bums on seats and that's a problem. So right now it's looking really really bad for Connor Ben really bad. I'm not quite sure what he does. I think he's doing the media around on different broadcasters. Next week he's gonna be grilled by you know we we we as. You're actually quite different because you, as a boxing journal, you actually asked the tough questions. In the UK, it's almost this full of boxing journals are quite soft when it comes to the fighters, like they're scared to ask questions because there might be blackboard and you know that's it. You're banned from events. He's going to go to places where proper journal is going to ask him questions who don't give a damn about boxing. I want to see how he survives that, but I don't see. I can't see anything but a band and hopefully look if he's innocent, and it's the big if fingers crossed that comes out. But I'm with you. I feel like in six or seven months it might just be a case of I f up guys. Yeah. I mean, to my knowledge, nobody's been fired on his team, like you would think that there'd be a fall guy at some point. Whoever his nutritionist is, whoever is in charge of giving him whatever he puts in his body. Not to say it's their fault or than they did anything, but that would be a kind of a typical move by someone in Connor Bent's position. He's clearly known since what late August when that first test came back, that this was out there, and here we are in early November and there's been no reasonable explanation. That's wild to me. It's wild that you don't even sup something. Even Jarrell Miller had some bullshit for a while, like he was spending some yards about about some things, like there's not even been like a believable like I don't know what happened with Canello all those years ago. But the second the positive test came back, Canello came out and said, it's the meat in Mexico. There was testing of that meat. It turned out we're testing, so you could there was a degree of deniability that you could buy that, like I've not heard anything, and you're closer, but have you heard anything that you boyd nothing like and said that because I mean, everyone remember when Billy Joe Sonders was gonna fight demit Andre and he blamed it on the nasals, praying like, whether you believe that or not, Okay, that's what you said it is, and I still I don't believe that nonsense for one second, but that's what it is. And Tyson fury and the ball meat and the farmer and rubbish story again. But you've given us something nothing with Connor Ben and like how long can you keep silent for? So no, I've I've heard nothing. Um And the longer it gets, the worse it gets out. I felt that maybe they felt and this is the team that the longer it gets it will start just to go away and people will forget. No, it's actually becoming worse now because Chris, you Bean Junior is starting to talk and everyone now, and even Eddie I've noticed it started to distance himself a little bit by saying things like well, I'm his promoter. I'm not he's you know, if he comes back, we promote his fights. Whereas before I felt like Eddie was willing to die on that hill with him. Now I don't think it is the case. So yes, it's not looking great at all. He's obviously given up his British Boxing Board of Control license, which again, I'm guessing someone's advising to do and the conspiracy theorist amongst us like, well, if he's done, that is that because then he can't be banned by them, and what's the reason for him to give it up? So it was it was a tactical move like Jarrell Miller wasn't initially banned for the Joshua test because he was he never had fought in New York. It wasn't licensed yet in New York, so it was a it's a bit of a loophole. But whenever he tries to come back, we know this, he's gonna get tagged. Like he's not gonna be able to find anywhere credible you can fight, somewhere to fight, but like he's not going to fight and you know the Caribbean or something that that's not going to happen. Here's the last point I would ask you, do you think he fights? No chance? Um? If he no, I actually I just don't. I don't. I think I think they're going to be quite about it. If I'm honest of you. This again, this is my conspiracy hot on, conspiracy hot on because boxing, as you know, is the wild world West. I thought it would just be quiet and there might be a band almost like a silent band that we don't know. And then he just comes back and we're not quite sure what's happened, but he's, you know, behind the scenes, has been banned fourteen months and he's just oh, I'm back and no it wasn't banned and boxing, honestly boxing. It's so disappointing that because it was such a big fight, um, and it was one that sort of we as British fight fans needed, we needed a big fight like that, and it was going to set out the O two are and it was going to do good numbers on the Zone broadcast um. And for that, just a full flat like that because of this, And so I think that's why it's almost unforgivable, and I think that's why the British public are really upset with him, just because everyone had been fully invested. All the shoulder programming was good, everything was I did a face off which did over a million views. Like people are really like, oh my god, this is it. For that to happen four days before, or for it to be canceled at least four days before, he's just kicking the tea for everyone, all part of what's been a pretty crappy overall two. It's been bad, it has, doesn't it as well? I was thinking as well, like what's really happened this year? And I'm not much. We had a decent start kind of and then the last six months nothing. The fall has been outside of what we're doing here on Saturday and December Chocolate t versus Strata Part three. That's a great fight. Not a lot it breaks have been a very bare fall and at this point start looking a lot better. Yeah, I can ask you a question, Yeah, any movement on the Ryan Guss. So what Oscar is saying is true that the deal is basically done, the frameworks dealing, and I reported this a week ago, week and a half ago that it was done. Um, now the question becomes how does it get done on the broadcast level? Is it can it get done with a code distribution, which is what the zone wants, or is there some kind of financial package that PBC and Showtime can put together that it wouldn't be this, but it would effectively be buying to zone out, Like is there something they can do to make that happen? I mean a lot of people kind of glommed onto this idea that Ryan Garcia doesn't have an exclusive contract with the Zone. Well, he does have one with Golden Boy. Golden Boy has one with his own. It's a distinction really without a difference, and if it wasn't, there wouldn't be talks about a buyout or some kind. Obviously. I think the Zone prefers to do a code distribution, and look, honestly, it's not that hard. It's not ideal for Showtime because they take a little bit less of the pie, but it's not difficult to do. And some of the biggest fights we've had in the last eight nine years have been code distributions. Paquille versus Mayweather, the two Fury Wilder fights, big events. UFC and Showtime got together do Connor McGregor versus Floyd. It's not difficult. It's just a little bit more pain for the networks because they don't get as big as slice of the Pie, and boxing fans don't care about that like they don't. If this falls apart because the networks can't figure it out, that network's gonna take the backlash, not the promoters, not the fighters. This is become a network issue that needs to be resolved. And look, we do sit here working for the Zone. People can say we're biased, do we want but the Zone is trying to make it happen like that. They're trying to work and do a deal involving Showtime. At this point, may with the promotions Al Hayman, Showtime are not inclined to do a deal with this side. It's crazy again again, it's crazy. And if I'm the Zone, Ryan Garcia is all next big star, right, I mean behind Canelo and a J He's that guy that There's no way I don't want to be involved in this, nor should they. They paid in like almost ten million dollars last year to fight like you don't just walk away neither show Time. By the way, Showtime should't have to walk away from Javante. They've done his last eleven fights. They deserve to be involved in this fight as well. It's not Mayweather versus Pacio, but it's a fight that will exceed five thousand paper views. How many fights out there will do that. Crawford Spence might not do five thousand, but it's a better fight, but it might not do five thousand. Ryan Gonna says it's it's the injection the sport needs. And I mean, look, it should oh could be anything, honestly, could could literally these guys could fight at one forty. They could. Javancy doesn't have the frame for one for seven, but he certainly has the girth he could go up there as well. But yeah, I mean, if if i'm if I'm the Zone, and I look at the situation with Devon Haney where we came over and you know, we built this Devon Hany fighter up and then he's gotten and become a dispirit on another network. We're not letting that shually happen again. There's no way, so no that I think they need to continue to fight for this one. It's a shame. Look again, it goes back to boxing. It's a shame if it falls apart because of the networks. But I think both Showtime and The Zone should almost be fighting for this one. There's so much pressure on both sides because there's no good alternative for either guy. Like if Tank walks away Isa Cruise too, does anybody really care? Especially on pay per view, Ryan fights at one forty. He's not going to fight one of the title holders or one of the top guys. So it's basically another tuneup fight at one forty. I don't this is the one fight like Crawford walking away for the ten million dollars, and that I don't like it. I kind of understand it to a certain degree. This there's no understanding at all. This has to get done someway, somehow, has to get desperately won it as well, both of them that they're I don't use the word hate a lot in boxing, because sometimes it's just fight. It's trying to sell fights. But they genuinely dislike yes, yes, and they both have fight changing power. Like you can sit there and say Javante is more experience whatever. Ryan's got his chin up in the air. But whoever lands first probably wins. That's just the way it goes. They both have completely devastating power, two different fan bases as well. It will be fantastic face A probably l A. Ryan and Javante do well out there. Ryan's a West Coast fighter. Javonte, to his credit, sells anywhere, but Ryan has mostly sold in southern California. It's a big fight. Staples. No, actually no, Oscar said this, and he's right. Vegas they actually have, and I was told they agreed as part of the promotional pact UH in a January date in Las Vegas, So Vegas. They'll put up a big sighte fee for it. You'll get all the built in Southern California traveling there. Just a major best guy. I can't I can't allow myself to get excited about this. I can't do it. I can't do it, Addi el Adipo. Follow um on social media. Check him out on Saturday as part of the Zone broadcast bevil Verse Ram Mirror is always good to catch up mat and when we come back my conversation with Eddie hearn Well, the NBA season is underway. It's the perfect time to download FanDuel America's number one sports book because right now new customers get a no sweat first bet up to one thousand dollars plus Fan Duel is the only sports book that's giving all customers three months of NBA League Pass when they make a five dollar bet. You guys know from listening to me following me, I am an NBA guy and gambling has become a big part of the NBA landscape. It's competitive out there at the moment, and at the moment, you've got some teams like Utah Portland's teams that you didn't think we're gonna be that good. They're good teams you thought we're gonna be good. Philadelphia are quite as good. So some interesting places to make bets right now. FanDuel has all your favorite bets from the money line, two point spreads, two player props. You can even combine your bets for a chance at a bigger payout with the same game parlay. Plus with live betting, you'll get updated odds on games they've already started. The fan Duel sports Book app is safe, secure, and super easy to use, So download FanDuel today and use promo code boxing to get your no Sweat first bet up to one thousand dollars. Make every moment more this season with fan Duel, official sports book partner of the NBA. All Right, Eddie Hearn is here. We are both in Abu Dhabi. Eddie is in undoubtedly more luxurious confines than I am in at the moment. But we're here for the Dmitri beevil Zerdo Ramirez w B, a light heavyweight title fight. That's the fight you can see on Saturday onto Zone Eddie, you are becoming a mainstay in the Middle East. How are you enjoying this visit. It's been tremendous. I mean that we know, obviously there's a lot of people trying to do a lot of fights in the Middle East. Few ever materialize. Actually, I think we're the only promotional company that's managed to deliver any big fights in the Middle East yet. And we've had two experiences in Saudi Arabia for the World Heavyweight Championship and Saturday marks a new journey with Abu Dhabi and the DCT here in a long term partnership for the Champion Series. And I think we've got a head of a fight, you know, the head of an undercard as well. We're gonna have a huge crowd at the head of arena. I'm really excited. You know. It's quite nice to be popular, Chris really for a week, you know, and just come somewhere where people actually are genuinely excited about what you're about to bring to the country. And I really feel like the Middle East is going to be a pivotal market and territory for the sport boxing over the next few years. And we're delighted to be here to stay. So elaborate on that a little for me, because are they all the deeper and our discuss sing this earlier. Is this the new normal where if you have fights of a certain level, it's likely that they're gonna wind up in Saudi Arabia or in Abu Dhabi. Is this going to be kind of part of the boxing ecosystem moving forward? Well, it will definitely be part of the ecosystem. I mean, you know, there's only so many fight nights that they're looking to do, so obviously there's and there's a multitude of major fights a year, so it's not like, you know, we're going to see boxing disappear from the United States and the UK. I just feel like this will be another stop on the map for Google Boxing. And you know, obviously they're very aggressive, they want to bring the big fights here. Um, And yeah, I just think you know, some people, you have to understand the world's a big place, right and just because boxing has been in Madison Square Garden for many years and the MGM grant, don't mean that every big fight has to go there. Now. You know, at the end of the day, not every big fight can be housed in the Middle East. But I certainly think, you know, our plan will be to stage four events in next year, you know, and I expect to see potentially who stick against Joshua, sorry against Fury in the Middle East, you know, in Saudi Arabia. So yeah, they want to be players in the market for big fights, and with that being the case, you will definitely see this become a solid destination for big time boxing. It's great that fights get made, and Despight probably got made in part because of the financing from the government here. It's also great that fighters are getting paid, you know, good money as they are in this situation. But how do you balance you know, kind of taking fights out of organic locations and what you might lose as a result of whether it's a sold out crowd at Wembley a fight like this, you know, Vacuum would probably do a really good crowd in southern California, where Ramirez has has developed something of a fan base there. How do you balance that with with being here and being in organic locations. I think it's just the start of the process. You know, every market that you go into that where you see boxing develop and grow, has to start somewhere. I mean, the fact is we'll have over ten thousand in the ety head on Saturday, and I think the atmosphere will be fantastic. You've just seen UFC here two weeks ago. It's one of the best UFC's that we've seen in terms of atmosphere. They did the NBA the week before, They've got Formula one next week. You know, at the end of the day, you have to educate the audience. Now, we know that in Los Angeles there's a lot of fight fans, there's a lot of Hispanic fight fans and Mexicans that are going to come out and create a great atmosphere. Boxing is something that is embodied in the history, you know, and their culture, so obviously over here it's not. But it doesn't mean that, you know, people here don't watch boxing every week around the world, they do, and they're very excited to see it here and I think you'll you'll see that within the atmosphere at the weekend. I think, you know, again, we shouldn't just limit ourselves to boxing. Boxing is in London and it's in Boxing is a global sport and we have global ambitions with the zone. We you know, I keep saying it, and I always normally say no, I don't, I don't want the credit, but I actually do want the credit. Like we are the only global promotional company. You know, we are staging in fight nights in different countries virtually every single week. Who is doing that? Who has ever done it before? You know, a couple of weeks ago, we were in the UK, then we're in Brisbane, then we're in Mexico, then we were back in London. Last week now in Abu Dhabi, were in Cleveland. Next week we go back to London, then we go to Phoenix for a Strata Chocolate t so leads for Warrington Lopez, Like, you know, this is a pretty special project and journey that we're on, and we have ambition to raise the profile of the Score in every key territory that we feel has potential. So yeah, I don't know. I'm not saying you're going to get an atmosphere like you would in downtown l A for this five, but you're going to get a pretty world atmosphere. And there's a lot of people very excited to see Boxing launch it. There's a lot of positives to what you just said. There um at the same time, there's a lot of negativity right now in boxing. I mean that what we saw this week with the Twitter spat between Errol Spence and Terence Crafford, I thought was the worst possible thing that could have happened between those two guys. We're seeing less and less optimism, at least publicly about Ryan Garcia and Tag Davis. How do you feel about where boxing in general is right now? So I think how many times have we seen over the years in boxing? You know, you get a spell where three or four big fights that you want or one big fight that you one doesn't get made, and everyone comes out and says, I've had it boxing, and then all of a sudden last night, you know, plant against Benavidez gets announced. You know, whether that's a bit of pr or whether that's you know, actually going to get an official day, which I believe the latter fantastic fire great for boxing, and you'll just see. I feel like being in the industry there is a bit more added pressure and potential glory now for making some really big fights over the next couple of months. So people have to understand that promoters want to make big fights like one we have to do do for our broadcaster too. We have to for the sport three. We want to for the fans before we want to make money, and the only way you can do that is to really make be Marquis nights. So you are unfortunately dealing with at times an inflated market, other times people taking advice from people that have absolutely no understanding about business or the numbers around the fire. And I stressed before you know, I don't often feel sorry for our Haiming. I don't feel sorry for him here. But the reality is is Spence Crawford and I've had criticism for saying this before, but whatever you want to criticize me for, and the same with our Hayman. We know the business, We know the numbers inside out, and the reality is is that Spence Crawford is not that big to the wider world. Is an unbelievable fight right in boxing, it's sensational. But the reason our Hayman won't put a guarantee up for that fight is because he doesn't even believe in the numbers. Right, So if you're budgeting that fire, I'm budgeting that that fight fifty or four hundred thousand paper ad guys, that's where I'm laying my guarantee. These guys are being told by some bloke who works in the local store around the corner that does a million buyers, no problem, right, So, and this is the problem. They're not prepared to take the risk on those numbers. And sometimes when you've got a fight that's supposed to be of a huge magnitude, you don't need to pay a guarantee. I go back to Fury, Joshua. You know the crux of that deal was done. No one asked for a guarantee because you know it's absolutely monstrous. But with a fire lights, it's Crawford. You just don't know. You know, it can do three hundred thousand buyers, it can do eight hundred thousand buys, because neither of them have ever drawn on pay per view, Right. I see Garsia against Tank as a much bigger fight than Spend's Crawford. People might disagree with me. The fan bases are bigger. The fan bases are totally separate as well. You know, Ryan Garcia has a very prominent position on social media. If I'm back, if I'm putting up money for fights, I'm choosing that one to put my money up for right. Now, that's a different story those negotiations. That's a different fight. That's more of a political situation between broadcasters. But the reality is is a lot of these fights aren't as big as some of the fighters think they are, and fighters are on occasion being paid money well beyond their commercial value. You're seeing it with Crawford against have an insent. So it's quite a distorted market and it's genuinely not easy. You know, fans don't really care, but we want to make the big fights. But sometimes as a business we also have to make the right business decisions to say we're not comfortable going into a fight and potentially hemorrhaging four or five six. I mean, look at when top Ranke did Crawford Can. I mean, I know what Can got paid. I was involved in that deal. I know what Crawford got paid. They hemorrhaged millions of dollars on that fight. I don't think it barely. You know, surpassed a hundred thousand buys. So what gives you the confidence of Spence Crawford all of a sudden does eight hundred or a million? Well, And that was a weird That was a weird one though that that was a weird one though, because it sounds like neither guy was looking for a guarantee. It sounds like that was broken apart for some other reasons, maybe some transparency behind what was all the revenue that was going to potentially come in Lis Crawford saying he was willing to take no guarantee for that fight. So I tend, I mean, I tend to agree with you. Now I did tend to agree with you about Look, guarantees kill pay per views. They do. Like you go back to the eighties, they weren't real grantees for a lot of a lot of fights you had from you had fighters taking the large percentage of the split, which they should um. But with all these guarantees, somebody's gonna lose a lot of money. And I don't know how you change that. Like the Crawford supposedly is getting guaranteed something like ten million dollars to fight David Avenesian, Like, if you're I don't blame him for taking that that money, that's a fight is going to be And if the alternative, you know, if the alternative is fifteen million to fight eral spends unless you really don't care about the money and you really are chasing the legacy. Then you take the Avenesian fight, because at the end of the day, it's a fight you could fight a thousand times you'd never lose once. And Avanes is a good fighter. But course was just levels and levels above it, you know. So, Um, I don't know, Chris, I mean, but I do feel like we're all under pressure to make big fights, like you need to know that as well, under pressure for our own reputation and legacy and love at the school, you know, Like I don't want to be a guy that doesn't couldn't make big fights. And I think there is a feeling seeing Oscar out here. You know, he's on good form out here. You know. I think we want to make a stand now and make good fights. But we do need corporation from the fighters and the lawyers and the managers and their representatives that actually we know what we're doing and we do understand the financials around valuation for events. All right, let's talk about this fight, because it is a terrific fight. Beavil Ramirez two undefeated champions people at one seventy five, Ramires five and old since moving up from one sixty year. This was not the fight that you initially wanted. You were trying to make Joshua Boazzi against Dmitri be evil right out here in Abu Dhabi. How do you feel about it being Beavil Ramirez instead? Pretty good? Now, I mean I was very disappointed at the time because I wanted, I really wanted to give Joshua Black today our opportunity. Obviously, he's our fight room, he's been with us into the debut, and that opportunity will come. But the buzz around the Ramrors fight, you know, on a global scale. Obviously that was a big fight for the UK, but this is a big fight for the US. Obviously, bigolds, very well known in the UK as well. We've got a big uk um sort of appearance on the undercard from Barrett and Cameron and Yaffi and people like that. So I'm excited, you know, I feel like this is one of the best fights in boxing. And I said, yes that the press Coffers is twenty and oh against forty four and oh, it's right up there as one of the top fights. And I mean, certainly in the division, but really in boxing as well. It's a fascinating fight. I think it's really good timing, you know, like you said, all fight fans, you get down in the dumps, well, tune in on Saturday night and you've got a fantastic fight and a great undercard as well, and there's a real feeding when you talk about money, Chris. Obviously, both guys getting paid well this week, but there is a big feeling around this fight from the camps and the teams that these are actually two guys that are very interested in legacy, you know, and actually believe in themselves and want to fight the best. I'm mean, certainly we've seen that from Dmitri BiVO and being around Ramirez, I get that thing as well, like now, you want to make money and sometimes you want to have a couple of you know, run out fights. But I think Ramirez feels like this is my time to prove myself now, become a two time to division world champion, and he believes he can beat Cold as always, and I'm sure you've been around him, you know, He's just I feel like there might be more levels to Dmitri BiVO, and I think the confidency will gain from the Canneloures victory may see a very special performance running on Saturday. I think you're right that both these guys are consciously aware of legacy, that they are fighting for more than just a paycheck, even though they are getting big paychecks. And that's exemplified by Bevil basically running around all weeks saying he doesn't want a Canello rematch, at least not right away. He's been pretty locked in on potentially fighting Archer better BV next year for all the titles at one seventy five. I mean, you work with Canello. Cannello has said publicly many times he wants the rematch with Bevil if be Evil wins this fight. Uh, what's your level of confidence that we see Canelo in Bevil in the next one? Well, I mean, BiVO definitely has ambitions to be undisputed. I mean, listen, that might end up coming at one who knows. You know, he talks about he looked very fresh on the scales today and that's for sure, you know, And look, at the end of the day, legacy is important, money is important, and there is a certainly a degree of legacy as well around any callow out risks fine, especially the rematch, but I believe the met is the best hundred and seventy pounds in the world, and he wants to prove that. I mean, Pivo against better Be is an unbelievable fight, you know. But when you look at the schedule, I think he's due to fight Yard in early February or something like that. Then you have Ramadan coming I believe in the March early April. That's going to keep him out till the back end of the summer. So there there will be pressure on Dmitri Vivo should he win on Saturday, to consider and negotiate turn ms of the Canelo Alvarez rematch. Um Cannello wants that fight. You know, he's a winner. He wants to avenge that defeat. He feels like maybe he wasn't a percent or it wasn't his best performance. But it's going to be a very very difficult fight. So a long way to go, and I think a lot depends on the outcome and how everything plays out. And it was reported this week that Canello had surgery on that left hand stuffing he said he was going to after the Gallashkin fight. Do you have any kind of information about where he's at with that surgery, how long it's going to keep him shelved. Yeah, I spoke to him after the surgery. I think he was very happy with her when he talked about being able to punch in two months. So I don't see, you know, certainly he's given me no indication, and I think it's too early to say May he's fine. But I believe you'll see him returning May, because if he's punching, you know, towards the end of December, there's no problem being ready for a May fight. He's already trained and he's already fit. Um could that extend till September? Maybe? You know, he's had a big run of fights, but I think he's very happy with how it went. And you know he'll be looking too and wanting to get back into the ring as soon as possible, is he. I mean, he's never out of opponents, But you know, in the aftermath of the Glaskin fire, which closed the chapter on that rivalry, you look ahead and you see Bevil out there as a revenge fight. I guess he could campaign more at one more titles. But is Canello in any way kind of running out of really marketable opponents. I mean, he was chasing something a year and a half ago. That was the undisputed championship at eight. He accomplished it. What's kind of left for him out there? Well, I think he might be running low in terms of the kind of fights that really excited you know. Like what one thing I've learned with him is it has to be a challenge and it just has to be something that excites him. Voluntary defenses and stuff like that. I mean, it's all based on the fire. But certainly, you know, I think he's been calling out for likes if they give you Benevidez and those fun Charlo to have real fights and then build what would be a fight that would get him excited. This is Benavidez beats Plant. I think, you know, Benabdez is a fight that would excite Canello albis. I agree, and it's good that that fight has been made. Same with Charlo. You know, he's never fought anyone, and if he comes into a big fight, Canello has no problem fighting anybody. Um. For me, I think one of the things left to do in his career, he's fighting internationally. You know, I feel like he's a huge star. I'd love to bring him out to the Middle East. I'd love to see in box in London, of course, what an event it would be to see in boxing Mexico, maybe Japan, Australia. You know that that's what could be something that excites him. You know. But he loves real fights, you know, he wants tests. He's not interested in just having a run out fight. And you know, I'm sure there are plenty options available, but but certainly the rematch with Dmitri Vivo is one that he's in his mind that he must overcome a couple of things before I let you go. H I was at the press conference on Thursday, and you are all in on Galala fight, like you are all in. Your chips are on the table with Galalia Fi becoming a superstar in this sport. You called them the best prospect in boxing. There are a lot of good prospects in boxing. Why are you so high on Galala Fi. Well, it's the way that he goes about his business. I mean, firstly, anyone that wins an Mpic gold medal is an unbelievable talent. I mean, especially in today's world of amateur boxing. He breathed through that really to win that. And you know he's had two fights, right he's had two ten rounds straight off the bat. I mean he's looked brilliant against top twenty five in the world opposition. Now he has actually quite a big step up on a Saturday guy that's ranked in the top fifteen with a couple of governing bodies. I just see a fighter that goes about his work so effortlessly, you know, like bit like Jesse Rodriguez. And you know, I look at that division now, any division, you can take a foothold in Jesse coming down to fight for the w BO. Julio sees a Martinez WBC champion. You know, Sonny Edwards is over with the IBF, and then you've got Galaia fight could jump in, whether that's w B A, wherever he's going to be. And I just see fights like Martinez against y F Fire, Jesse Driguez against the Fire, like the big, big fights. But what watched this kid on Saturday. You know, for people that haven't seen him yet, watched the way he goes about his work. He's still it's only his third pro fight, but you know, at the moment he's not too concerned about getting hit and that will have the changes he goes through the levels, but a real exceptional talent and ice cold as well. CHRISTI, you know, like yet people like Dmitri Vivol who I don't think his pulse went over forty when he was sitting a changer in about to fight. The fire is at the same mold, real special fighting. Yeah, no question, people definitely was relaxed before that fight. That was surprisingly so in that sense. Anthony Joshua is going to be out here this weekend, ridden North member right now. Obviously he's not going to fight in December, but are you any closer to kind of locking down a Joshua schedule in the first half of next year. Yeah, that's really a lot of the conversations when he arrives here today, you know, sitting down and mapping out that time. Time moves quite quickly, you know, before you know it's December, and you know, and the plan really is to fight in February. You know. I think the thing is with a j similar to Canelo, he's not really motivated to have sort of takeover fights or whatever you want to call it. Every fight is dangerous. Every fight requires a big training camp and a big build up. So there's a very good chance that he could face the winner of Billian White and Jermaine Franklin on November twenty six, straight off the bat. There's also a chance he could fight a top fift thing guy Otto Wilding has been mentioned, Philip Hergovitch. You know these kind of guys. Um. You know, we have had a reply now from an August email from Cheli Finkle to say that we would would be happy to discuss that fight, which is encouraging. Whether he goes straight into a wild Of fight or has one first, probably the latter, but that's definitely a fight three. So it's just a case now of really pinning out, pinning down that training camp and and determining the date, and we expect that's happening the next week. Has the landscape for Wilder changed enough to make you more confident that fight could get done because the zone you money years ago? I think that bearing in mind the Paider view results in the last five, you know, I think it's going to be difficult for deont to land the kind of deal that he would want from boxing and now outside of an AJ fight or one of those who six or furies, and we want that fight as well. It's a tremendous fight of the boxing. I mean Deonce is a you know, a very dangerous fighter, is a brilliantction to the heavyweight division. And you know I've said before the Wilder Fury sorry Wilder Joshua might be bigger than Fury as and some people dismissed that it's probably not. I'll tell you what time that fight comes around. I mean, that is one of the great heavy weight fights at all time. And you know there's a lot of people particularly out here who would really be aggressive to make that fight and certainly one I believe will happen in Well, make sure you call Mases Square Garden before you make that fight anywhere, because that's an incredible New York fight as well. So I'm make sure you make that phone call the sal and all the guys over at MSG. One last thing for you, UM, A lot of people listening to this are US based Um the schedule. This is a good fight coming up. You've got chocolate to Astrata in December. How active do you anticipate being in the US next year? Because we've seen kind of some of your stable winnow out a little bit. You've seen some other guys like Andrew and others move on. Um how active do you believe you're going to be in the US. That's active. I mean, I think we've ended up doing something like eight or nine shows in the US this year. I think we've done five or six in Mexico um SO I think a similar amount. I mean, we're finding our feet very well. To Zone as a business and a platform is in a tremendous position in America. Now you better than it's ever been. The brand loyalty, the brand recognition, the profile is at an all time high, and we need to capitalize on that and put a great schedule together. Again, when you look at the schedule coming off Canelo against Triple G, you know you move into um Vivo against Ramirez Strata against Chocolate t SO three. Like with I still believe, by my the Zone carries the best schedule in American boxing and particularly in global boxing. So America is a very important market for us. We want to be as busy, if not busier there next year, and you know, I feel like we're in a very strong position, So looking forward to a busy at the Appreciate your time. I know that you and Jake Paul have some legal issues going on. But I was down in Puerto Rico in his camp a couple of weeks ago and papered all over his gym are pictures of you with the caption Fighter, Real Fighter. So you are very much in the mind of the team. Rem Free, rem Free. That's quite that's quite flattering. But good luck to him, and you know who'll sort the legal stuff out. But fair play to him, you know, I know, I know the criticism. He is not fault of Real Fighter and Anderson Field was faulty a but there's a lot of prospects that fought nobody for ten fights. So I like what he's doing. I think he's bringing eyeballs to the fault and good luck to him. And you've said this before, but you don't foresee any issues with a Serrano. Taylor talks with what's going on with to too big an opportunity for our clients to be childish. But the other stuff will get all it out ed. He appreciate it. Man. Good luck On Saturday. Thanks mate. Time out for this week's picks brought to you by Fan Duel and I am in Abu Dhabi this week, so I'm focused on the car headlined by Dmitri b Volte and Zero Ramires. But I am not gambling this week on Beavil Ramires. The odds just not great. I like Bevil to win that fight. You got a bet a lot to win a little in that matchup. So I'm gonna look a little further down on the car to the co made event, the women's title unification fight between Jessica McCaskill and Chantel Cameron. This is for all the belts at a hundred and forty pounds. McCaskill the undisputed champion now at one seven, Cameron, who has two belts at one forty. They're gonna fight for all the belts at hundred forty pounds. You got all that a little bit confusing, but it's a big fight in women's boxing. I like the underdog in this fight. Jessica McCaskill is coming in as a plus hundred thirty eight underdog. Jessica McCaskill has been on a role lately. She won the undisputed title by beating uh Cecilia break Who's that was a big win for her. She followed that up by winning a rematch against break wos So. She had two defining wins over the last couple of years. Her last two fights Candy Wyatt she won by knockout, Alma Bara she won by knockout. She's really been on a roll since losing the Katie Taylor back in two thousand seventeen. She's fighting Chantel Cameron, who is undefeated, who is very good, who does have eight wins by knockout. But I really like McCaskill in this fight, and I'm not sure why she's the underdog plus one thirty eight according to fan Duel, bet McCaskill to win. That's someplace you can make some money on. Take McCaskill to beat Chantel Cameron. Uh in this fight. Now method of victory you can make a little bit more. McCaskill by decision is plus two ten. I never bet on knockouts in women's box and they happen from time to time, but more often than not, especially at the highest level, we see these fights go to decision. I think McCaskill wins by decision as well. So do you want to make some money this weekend? Look to the fight Nabu Dhabi, watch it on the Zone. Bet Jessica McCaskill to win bet Jessica mccaskell to win by decision. Those are my picks courtesy of Van Duel. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Addi Oladipo and Eddie Hearn for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple, podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcast, and I'll see you next week.