Chris is joined by Corey Erdman to discuss Chris Eubank-Liam Smith, will we see Eubank-Benn in the future, what should the future be for Conor Benn, and the breaking news the Shakur Stevenson and Frank Martin have agreed to a fight. Later, Erickson Lubin sits down with Chris talk about his career, his upcoming fight and his relationship with Mike Tyson. #Volume #Herd
The Volume. This is Boxing with Chris Manning. How somebody punch him in the face empty Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher. Watch this everyone is posted by SI's Chris Mannix. That was my moments now with interviews, analysis and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix. This is Boxing with Chris Mannix, part of the Volume Sports podcast Network. Want to welcome in everybody listening on AMP. AMP is the first place to go to if you want to hear this podcast early ike, should you subscribe to the Volume feed on AMP? Subscribe to my feed on AMP as well. We've got a great show for you today. Corey Erdman writer over at Boxing Scene dot com, broadcast or his own ESPN plus plenty of other outlets. He joins to talk about the news of the week. We're going to get into the Chris you Bank Junior Liam Smith fight. A lot of people surprised by that outcome. I want to talk about the possible resuscitation of Chris Eubank Junior against Connor Ben. There's obviously a buzz building again for that fight, and we have a big fight in the lightweight division. Breaking news. I love when when news breaks right before we record this podcast. Of course, Stevenson Frank Martin that fight is a done deal for the fall on ESPN. We'll talk about that as well. A little bit later on Ericson Lubin one hundred and fifty four pound title contender. He joins me, it's been quite the journey, I would say for Ericson Lubien, who came into the game as this white hot prospect. He was signed straight out of the amateur ranks, the first fighter signed to Iron Mike Promotions. Had a blistering start to his career. Then he had a couple of setbacks, the first round knockout to Jamal Charlow. He had the knockout loss to Sebastia Fandora. He is back on September thirtieth, facing Hayesus Ramos as the co main event of Canelo Alvarez Jo Mel Charlow. I talked to Ericson about his journey through boxing to this point and why, at twenty seven years old, he feels like he's just entering the best years of his career. Stick around for that conversation. A little bit later, in the show at the top, I do want to touch on the news that broke on Sunday and just touch on it because we're still missing a lot of information on what happened over in the UK with Brian McIntyre, the trainer for Terrence Crawford, the trainer for Chris Eubank. He was arrested on Sunday at the Manchester Airport for possession of a firearm and possession of ammunition. As we record this, he is still being held over in the UK. And look, if you know anything about UK gun laws, it's pretty serious stuff. I mean, the had some of the most strict or strictest gun laws in the world and there are minimum sentences for these gun laws. So a lot going on with Brian McIntyre, the trainer for Terrence Crawford. We'll talk more about it as we get more information, but right now all we know is that he's been arrested, he's being held and you know, for his sake, we hope for the best for Bomack to deal with that particular situation. So us bringing Corey Ardman, senior writer Boxing Scene dot Com. Corey's got a busy couple of weeks ahead of him on the broadcast. Beat be Corey, I want to talk first about last weekend Chris you Bank Junior Liam Smith Revenge or Repeat, and it was revenge for Chris you Bank Junior dominates that fight really from start to finish, gets the tenth round knockout. I get a lot of stuff wrong, Corey, definitely, But this I saw coming because the Chris you Bank I saw back in January, the one that lost via fourth round knock out to Liam Smith, the outcome of that fight didn't make a lot of sense to me how it all played out for starters. Liam Smith is a one hundred and fifty four pounder coming up to one sixty who doesn't have a reputation as a power puncher, got a bunch of knockouts, but doesn't have a reputation as a power puncher. Meanwhile, he stops Chris u Bank and you Bank has a reputation for a guy with a good chin. So when I saw that play out the way it did in the first fight, I just it didn't make a lot of sense to me. It made sense that u Bank, who in the previous months was dealing with a lot of the fallout from the connor Ben situation. He had the fight schedule with Connor Ben months earlier, it fell apart over the positive drug test. I feel like there was a lot of things going on in the life of Chris Ubank Junior going into that first Liam Smith fight, so I anticipated a better fight, and sure enough we got one. That Chris you Bank we saw in the second fight looked a lot more like the Chris you Bank Junior we've seen in over the last couple of years in boxing. And look, Liam Smith certainly had his issues. The weight cut was significant for him. He rolled both of his ankles early in that fight and that probably hindered him some as the fight progressed. But I was impressed with what I saw from Chris you Bank Junior, and that felt to me like the real Chris u Bank and not the one we saw back in January. What did you think of that performance? Yeah?
I was. I'm of two minds of the fight and how it went. I was also very impressed with Chris U Bank, and I think that what you're touching on, you know, with the Chris you Bank old. Yeah, I think that too, but more in terms of how dominant he was and his ability to kind of oppose his physicality because I actually saw, particularly early in the fight, a little bit of a new Chris you Bank working with the new trainer, working with bow Mack. In past fights, in recent fights, when you Bank has been at his worst, he's looked to me like a guy who has been trying too hard to mimic Roy Char's.
G and it makes sense, and that never works. It never works. You know, Roy is unique. It never works.
Yeah, And I think that he was trying to follow that a little bit too much, to like down to you know, the head placement in some of the you know, the kind of body language that Roy has in there, the cadence. It was almost a carbon copy, and it resulted in you Bank doing very little in between his big moments. But what we saw this time out number one, we saw him kind of lower a stance a little bit, a little bit more bend to the knees, a little bit less of that roy As rhythm, a little less circling with the lead hand, and a lot more actual use of me jabbing solid all the time, filling those gaps like names, doing anything he was, and he usually it's the opposite of fortev you Bank not doing anything and then kind of exploding with his very athletic combination. So he no longer, at least what I saw in this fight, he's no longer just relying on his instincts to get athleticism. He was putting in together now. At the same time, I think he was very obvious that the ankle injuries that that Smith either have stayed during the fight or had coming into the fight were very much hampery. Now presume Mak, you have won this fight anyway, I think so with those adaptations, I think, like you said, I find I'm gonna win the first fight. I thought that in the first fight he was looking like he was going to I thought the same about this fight too. But you could see that Smith just did not have his feet underneath him. You know, he was really wobbly. He was really uncertain about his footing. That definitely played a factor, and especially for round seven onwards, he was basically a sitting duck. But I like the adaptations that you Bank made, and I they're obviously changed that he made himself. But also when I was watching on TV, Bomack was very direct, very vocal in loud all throughout the fight, so when there were times when you Bank might have drifted into his old ways, he heard a voice at all times adapting what he was doing. So credit to both you Bank and Bomack, but I certainly I have some for Smith and his ankles. You know, as a man who rolls his ankles quite a bit, I get it.
Yeah, bo Mack was you know, if you don't know Brian McIntyre one of the loudest voices in all of boxing, you can't miss his voice in the corner if he's coming after you. And he was like that all night with you Beck, especially with the jab. I mean that was his most effective punch. I mean he finished the fight with combinations, but that jab couldn't miss all night long, and that was a a pace center for Chris Ubank Junior. And I thought his confidence grew as the fight went on. The first couple of rounds I was watching it, I'm like, man, you Bank looks like a guy just doesn't want to get hit again. And that had me worried about how that fight would would play out. But as he got comfortable, and maybe some of that had to do with, you know, the ankle injuries that Liam Smith suffered or the weight cut that made him, you know, in his words, unable to pull the trigger on some of those punches. But as he got comfortable, you could tell, you know, this was the guy that we're used to seeing in boxing. I thought it was wild afterwards to hear Liam Smith say that he had to drop forty two pounds over myth of months. That's a huge amount of weight. I mean, he had a back injury I think it was April or May. Uh, and that back injury obviously kept him from working out on a regular basis. He he ballooned up to, you know, by that calculation, one eighty five one ninety and you know for Liam Smith that that's a lot of weight to try to take off in a matter of months. So that's why I think, you know, even though there's a lot of people out there, you know, Tony Bell, you among others, that have pointed to the ankles, I do think Liam Smith, who's was was very fourthright about how he felt going into that fight. I think the weight cut was more significant than anything else. I mean, just you know, the ankles, you know, kept him from moving. But every time that you banked through a punch, through a combination or even through a jab Liam Smith through nothing, through nothing. His head looks like it was just, you know, completely stationary. His counterpunching just wasn't there. And to me, that has as much to do with with havn't dropped that much weight in a short period of time, but anything else.
Yeah, and he causes injuries like that, right, that's when fluke injuries like that happen, or when your body is fully depleted. I mean, they can happen any their flukes, but that can't help your circumstances if you're coming in that drain. I mean, forty two pounds sounds like the lock cris, but I would be willing to bet that a lot of guys around one sixty put on about forty pounds in between fights. I mean, I think for Liam, having that back injury and being inactive is probably maybe more meaningful than the number that we see on the scale. That number sound shocking to a lot of people, but I think there are a lot of fighters once you get up at one sixty and above that put on about forty pounds, like Tim Bradley used to go up to about two hundred and cut to one forty seven. So it's not completely out of the question.
Ricky Hatton was enormous during his time off. I mean that was, you know, the ultimate example of a guy going up in wait. So Lam Smith wants a third fight, I doubt that happens, at least not anytime soon. Chris you Bank mentioned some names after the fight. You know, he called out kel Brook, who is a officially retired but certainly looking to get back in the ring. You mentioned Ganadi Gilofkin, though someone should tell Chris you Bank that Glofkin does not have those titles anymore. That was kind of his his what he was looking for when he called out Glofkin. But the money fight for u Bank is Connor Ben, you know, resuscitating that fight and getting them to together. You know, it looked like that Ben fight might be lost forever after the first loss to Liam Smith. But now that he picked up a knockout and dominated the way he did, I think the marketability of that fight is all the way back to the level it was prior to that knockout loss. The question is can Connor Ben get licensed in the UK? And that remains an open ended question because listening to Eddie Hearn and Connor Ben it's he's cleared, and then you have the British Boxing Board of Control. You've got uka D the testing governing, effectively saying he's not at least not yet. Look it may be this may not be a popular take, but I do think it's time to let Connor Ben out of boxing prison. I do think it's time to let Connor Ben fight again. I do not take positive drug tests lightly because in a sport like boxing, it's not just winning or losing. It could be life and death. You have to take drugs more seriously in boxing than virtually any other sport, maybe more than any other sports. That being said, I do think there should be a you know, a set punishment for a first offense, and this was connor Ben's first defense. I think a year punishment is appropriate, and whether you want to peg it to connor Ben's last fight, which was in April of twenty twenty two, or when the positive test came out, which was the end of September of twenty twenty two, the next time he tries to get in the ring, it's going to be at or close or more than a year, and I think that's enough. I think if he tests positive again, throw the book at him, send him out of boxing for five years, ten years. There is no punishment great enough for someone that tests positive a second time. But for a first defense, I'm okay with a one year suspension. That's effective what Connor Benn has served. I don't like how he's handled it. I wish he would just fall on his sword and say, look, I didn't do anything. I don't know how this got into my system, but I'm gonna take my punishment. I'm gonna sit out and I'll be back at date XYZ. Instead, he's fouted tooth and nail. You know, there's been all the bizarre defenses that he's made, dossier that he's submitted to the WBC, like, there's just so much out there that's just strange. But the fact that he has been out of the ring for more than a year and the fact that we're coming up on one year since Connor Ben tested positive, that to me feels like enough. That to me feels like a proportional response to the positive test that he had last September. What say you, Corey? Yeah?
I think the issue is that there are no parameters really for what the punishment should be, so it leaves it open to interpretation, and it leaves it open to litigation, and of course if you're Connor Band and if you're matching people behind him, of course you're going to try and litigate it, you know. And you know, I'm someone that always advocates for greater protections for fighters, and you know, maybe what there's like a union for fighters like players unions in other sports. If this situation happened and there were a boxers union, they would fight this movie. But there aren't any actual set parameters for what happens when you test positive. There aren't parameters for when drug testing happened either. And another issue I think, uh that allows for things like this to happen, not to allow for the fighters taking pees is then you know, to be a boxing fan to work in boxing, and it's an exercising and cognitive distans. There's a lot of things to consider all the time, whether it's being you know, whether it's a treatment of fighters, whether it's fighter paying fighter protection, all these things you sport does to the athletes themselves. There's a lot to consider, and you have to kind of put that somewhere else in your mind in order to consume this sport, and I think what winds up happening is we wind up saying there's so much to consider that we just sort of turn and there's so much going on at all times that when fighters test positive for the excuse for performance to handic drugs is that there are bigger name fighters than Connor Ben. Guys with championship belt positive. We're you know, you're Junior James tone Ello, Algaret so Oscar Balvez like guys, you guys, can we celebrate on television all the time? You can move past these because there's just so much to consider all the time. So there is a path to redemption over Connor Bet. I mean there's already. I mean when you post these things on Instagram that you know, these dossie as that you're talking about, someone's jamming those life virns. Someone is on his side and on the other side. What happens to us is that even the people that you know want the book thrown that inspiders to have these do these bad things or allegedly do these bad things. What we turn it into is we think that an appropriate punishment is justice physical violence in the ring, and so we turned their return fights into this like morality, you know, like Margarito versus pacyaw is supposed to be this, like, you know, we're getting our reconding, we're Margarito jeting and we allow them to make enough paycheck and go back in. So yeah, I think that there has to be there should be set parameters for what happens if you test positive. But there's so many things that we need to change to actually make that happen. It's hard. It's even hard for me, you know what, stuff like this happens, Like a man, do I want to get angry? But Conter Benner, do I want to like click on the link that tikbox Ao sent out and watch the fight somewhere right, There's too much to think about it all the time.
It's a lot, it's a lot, and we're dealing with it more and more in boxing because this year, while it's been a very good one for boxing overall, it has been littered with you know, negativity when it comes to drugs, whether it's Connor ben last year, ye had Dillian White, Lisia Bombgardner. I mean, there's just a lot going on. A lot of the sport needs to do to clean it up, which begins with you know, twenty four to seven testing for everybody that wants to compete in boxing. It's got to be a way to figure out how to do that. But when it comes to Connor Ben, I just think one year I'm okay with if he does it again, gone see you later. Not allowed to fight in any respectable country with any respectable boxing commission. But I think the doors should be reopened for Connor Ben to get back into the boxing ring. And if it is, that Ben u Bank fight is massive. I mean we all remember this time last year when the promotion for that fight was starting to ramp up, where you had u Bank Senior and Nigel Ben you know, talking about it. You had you know, all the promotional videos about you know, the past fight between those two and then you know, teasing the future fight between these two. That fight will still sell out a big arena in London anywhere in the UK and be one of the biggest fights of the year over in the UK. But and if I'm Connor Ben, you know we talk about Chris u Bank. Should he want that fight? I think he should. If I'm Connor Ben, I want that fight, But I want another fight before then too. There's been some talk about Connor Ben returning maybe in the US before the end of the month. I would want one fight at a higher weight because remember, Connor Ben has been fighting at one forty seven for his entire career. This fight with u Bank will likely be at a full one sixty. I would want one fight at a higher weight before I, you know, get into you know, get right into a fight with Chris Ubank, who's going to be coming in sharp, fresh, confident second fight with his new trainer. I'd want one more fight if I'm Connor Ben. But I'm of the opinion a lot of people won't agree that it's time to allow Connor Ben to fight again and for boxing to open the door, whether it's in the UK or the US, for him to fight once again. All Right, Speaking of fights, Erol Spence Junior wants his get back. It's been widely reported and I've confirmed that Ero Spence has exercised his immediate rematch clause to face Terrence Crawford. We all remember the one sided destruction. Their first fight was back in July. Terrence Crawford winning that fight by knockout. Ero Spence really not winning. Yeah, maybe won the first round, but After that, it was all Terrence Crawford. There was a lot to talk Cory about whether Spence would exercise an immediate rematch, whether he would look to take one fight at one fifty four before getting back in the ring with Crawford. Well, he wants to get back in right away. Is this a wise move for Aero Spence Jr.
I think it is the right move. And I you know, even if you think that Spence isn't going to win this fight, I think that it is the right move if he's going to continue in his boxing career. I mean, this is the biggest fight that's available to him. It's the biggest fight in terms of the monetary value, the amount of money that he's going to bring. And as an athlete, I'm sure that he's looking at that one side of the fight and thinking the way that I'm I'm not better than you know, so I understand fully where he's coming from. And I also, you know, you're if I'm going to be objective looking at things, Spence looking the way that he did in that fight, considering the bomb in his body he's been through, can't crashed and everything else, considerations that were there. Even even though he kept leaning against the other top welter race. There is a consideration of, well, how much time does he actually have left, whether he's been really and is beating for the last fight, And then he considered, well, if I am a fight and I am basically playing the pottery waidering my physical well being against money I can even bring home, this is probably the best decision for him. So I I totally get it. And that still stands even if you think expense gets wiped out at once fifty before. If he wants to continue his career as an acting boxer, then this is the biggest fight available to him. It's the one that he has an athlete, is always believed that he could win, and it's you're gonna bring him the most money. And even if this is a retirement plan to go out and even if you lose again you make another ten lust million dollars, you know you're set up on that branch in DeSoto for quite some time. So I still think, like, listen, of course, are the readable it's out there that you can think of the interim, Sure, but I don't know what exactly that would do for him. In any fact, if he faces off against another, you know, and a top tenish welterweight. Your risk is there that me not allowed him to get to this Crawford fight again.
So I think it is the right I think if he fights Crawford next, there's no other way to look at it. But this would be his last fight. I'm of the opinion Corey that I don't think seven pounds is going to make a difference. I think the weight was a variable in that first fight, but I think Terrence Crawford at this stage is just better and I don't think a new weight class is going to change much. In fact, it might just make Crawford that much stronger because you know, he had to cut the way too, and him not having to cut all the way down to one forty seven is is going to benefit him as well. I agree with what you're saying that you know, if your Aero Spence, you go into the ring against you know, a top Tennish guy, do you run the risk of potentially losing. I still think in the interest of Spence winning a rematch, I think he needs some kind of confidence boosting fight. I think he needs activity too. I mean, he took that fight with Terrence Crawford after being out of the ring for more than a year. I think getting back in the ring against a light hitting one hundred and fifty four pounder or maybe even one hundred and forty seven pounder just coming up in wait to be an opponent for Spence, I think that could benefit him. I think that could give him a little bit of confidence going into the rematch because the first fight just wasn't close. That's the big problem here, the first fight. Aero Spence cannot look at that first fight and say, well, if I did this a little bit differently, or that a little bit differently, I'd be in a position to win. No, he won the first round, we'll give him that, but then the next six he got wiped out. You know, I got knocked down the second and then beat up over the rest of that fight. I mean, I understand that Aero Spence is not about warm up fights. He's proven that over the course of his career. The guy comes off a near catastrophic near death accident and fights Danny Guard in his first fight. He gets back in with Yo danis Ugas. He fights tough guys all the time. But if he's serious about winning this rematch, and if his team believes he can win this rematch. I think he needs one fight. I think he needs to go up to one fifty four, take a low level fight, get your confidence back, get comfortable at that new weight, and then middle of next year, go into a fight against Terrence Crawford. I understand that the politics of it and the legalities of it say that he probably can't put it off and automatically get that rematch. But if Spence wins a fight at one to fifty four, Crawford's gonna want to fight it again. The Money's gonna be there. Like the deal, the framework of the deal is in place. I just think you go in to this fight with Crawford in January or February or whenever it may be schedule without that next tune up fight, you're gonna lose, and you might lose just as bad as you did the first time. You get a in between fight. You may still lose, you may still take a beating, but I think you're gonna be better off for it if you go into that Crawford fight coming off a win, as opposed to just being months removed from a beating. I mean, that was that wasn't a loss. That was a beating he took in the hands of Terrence Crawford. So I just think he should he should do that.
Yeah, and you know what, I could see that perspective both for for Errol as a as a fighter and as an athlete. But there would also be benefits to that, Chris from a PR perspective as well, because the reality of how athletes are marketed, how fights are marketed these days, it is it is on your timeline, and it is what is most recently in front of your eyes, and right now the most recent thing that the casual viewers, the ones that make pay per views into pay per views extravaganzas, the ones that make fighters a lot of money. Those fans are the ones, you know, clicking like on the memes of Aero Spence looking like you know, Martin and you know that's like that's not good. But you put a fight in between there where maybe Aero scores a knockout, cuddenly all that's washed away. I mean, we saw it with Deontay Wilder one comeback fight, one of extraordinary knockout and suddenly people are excited about seeing him all over It can happen. So there would be benefits. I can definitely see your side. But yeah, I think the the sticky part is contractually isn't even possible if there he is that desire.
Yeah, uh you know, and look, even if he takes that interroom fight, I'm still picking Crawford to win. I just think Crawford's better. And I don't think Spencer the same guy since the Accident've said that over and over again. I don't think he's the same fighter. He has not been that aggressive, you know, look for a knockout guy in a number of years, certainly not since uh he uh took that had that that one car accident that nearly killed him. So which which by the way, makes his pre Prawford post accident wins even more impressive and retrospect, if that him going in there and beating gordniz Ugas, when he, you know, was nearly killed in his car, that's extremely impressive and we should look back on that as so. He is one of the rare guys that you can all you can say he always fought the best. He looked at his resume since he came out of the Olympics, uh and since he started fighting at a championship level, there are. There were very few gimmes on that list, certainly almost none since he became a unified champion. Whether it's you know, fights against Sean Porter, you know, the Ugas fight, Danny Garcia, you'll go down the list. He had a lot of good names on his resume. I just think at this stage, I think Crawford is simply the better fighter. And whether it's at one fifty four, one sixty one, sixty eight, it's not gonna matter. I think Crawford's gonna win that rematch one way or the other. I want to talk about a great fight that was finalized on Tuesday afternoons she of course Stevenson two division world champion. He will face Frank Martin, undefeated one hundred and thirty five pound contender. That will be for the vacant WBC lightweight title. It's the title the Devon Haney.
Uh.
I don't Devin vacated as much as WBC took it from him, made him champion in recess, but Devin Haney no longer one hundred and thirty five pound champion with the WBC. That title will be up for grabs. There was a purse bid scheduled for Tuesday afternoon. That was called off after representatives from Top Rank and representats for Frank Martin. Presumably PBC made a deal for this fight to happen. It'll take place sometime in the fall. It'll be on an ESPN platform. I am all in on this fight Corps. This is a tremendous fight and the kind of fight though you don't see a lot of in boxing. You don't see two young still you know, years away from their prime or still a brief time whatever it may be, from their prime, coming together through cross promotion to make a fight like this. Of course, Stevenson associated with Top Rank. He has been, you know, one of the top pound for pound guys for a number of years now, climbing the ranks every single fight. Frank Martin really burst onto the scene with that win over Michelle Rivera a couple of years ago. Didn't look great in his last fight, but still a top guy at one thirty five. You know, this is certainly a fight for the purest because neither Chakor or Frank Martin has massive fan bases behind them. It's not going to be a pay per view, it's not going to be a huge draw necessarily, but it will be I think a terrific fight between two guys that are ryland doorstep of being elite in boxing. What do you think of it?
Yeah, I think it's a tremendous fight. And you mentioned the fact that this is a cross promotional deal too. That is a rarity that hopefully, I think it is becoming a little bit more of a commonality and hopefully that trend will continue. And I think this is a trend that I've been seeing in the way that fighters talk about wanting their career arts to be They want to take these tests a little bit sooner. They don't see the value in a lot of these earlier career kind of fluff fights, development fights, and these two guys have been very loud on the timeline asking for fights like this, and they came together and actually made it happen that not only is it a tremendous fight for the peerist, but I think that you know, to your point, neither of these guys are on a pay per view caliber yet, but Shakur is probably a little bit closer. I think he's closer.
Uh.
You know, the fans that know Spencer Crawford are, they know who Shakour is the question is are they willing to pay money to see him on pay per view? And wins like this will put you in that stratosphere. And you know, Shakur is kind of following. And it's interesting because he is. He's very much in that Terrence Powford camp. You know, that's one of his mentors, and you're seeing him kind of take a similar kind of career arc where everyone, you know, the way that they talked about Crawford at this stage his career was almost as if everyone assumed and knew that this maybe the most talented guy in boxing right now. He's gonna be number one one day. We just haven't had a chance to see it yet. Uh, Shakur is starting that path a lot earlier. I think that the Coffer tit. He's still a very young guy and taking these as the lights. But he's following that same kind of path where he's created some you know, some haters, let's say, on the timeline's kind of rated a division between him and let's say the opposing camp, which Frank Martin is a part of, and like the Arrow Spence Spear and now he will get a chance to win a ruts match. It's to a top five ish fighter in the division. This is the step that Shaqur I think needs to hit that next level. If Frank Martin wins, I mean that means that he was right all along. But everything he said about himself and he's going to prove a.
Lot of people wrong. I'm going to enjoy one. Yeah. I want to give Frank Martin a lot of credit for taking this fight, because it would have been very easy for his representatives to pull him out and say, look, there's going to be other titles that are vacant over the next three or four months. We're going to position in Frank Martin to fight, say Isa Cruz for a vacant title, or maybe Frank Martin could position himself seems unlikely, but maybe he could for a fight against Davonte Davis. There are a lot of ways that you know, Spence, who is his promoter, and PBC, which is backing him financially, a lot of ways they could have gone. Not only is he taking the toughest fight of vail to him, but you know his promoters and him are they're going to go to you know the quote rival platform. They're going to go over and fight on ESPN, which, frankly, for Frank Martin, you've got to be excited about, I mean, your exposure if if and I've seen some dates floated, you know, November, maybe even the Heisman ceremony date that ESPN and Top Rank have in December. There's a chance for great exposure for Frank Martin in a fight like this spot. I want to give him props because this wasn't a fight he needed to take, Like he he easily could have walked away and followed a different path that could have led him to a world title at some point in twenty twenty four. He chose the path of greatest resistance, which I guess we're looking at Frank Martin's resume, we should believe that. I mean, look the fight with Michelle Rivera. I mean that was one sided in the aftermath, but that was Prospect against Prospect at the time. That was that was a big fight for both those guys and kind of a pickam fight at that time. Frank Martin went into it, he got the job done.
He is kind of.
Following that same path that Earl Spence followed like that, I'm gonna take tough fights like I'm gonna go out there and prove myself against the very best. And you know he's going up against the guy then in terms of pure skill, Uh, you know, Chaquor's pound for pound as good as it gets. Like, he's not, you know, top five on my pound for pound list, but he's in the top ten. And you know there's few people in boxing the doubt that with the right fights, he could get there, get inside that top five very quickly. So kudos to Frank Martin for for taking a fight like this. Yeah.
Absolutely, And listen, Frank Martin's been knocking on every door he can knock up, like I saw him at Williams Sapeida fight. You know, like, what are you doing out here in the middle of Texas for no reason? He's just he's asking for anyone of node and he you know, he landed the biggest fish you know that he could get.
Yeah, look, you mentioned Williams of Payina gonna fight September sixteenth against Morsito Hester that fights fine. You know, has to coming off the win over Jojo Diaz. He's been a Fringy contender before. But Sepeida had opportunities to fight Schaquorse cour went to fight him, you know, Astin Delahoya Golden. They decided we want to expose and paid a little bit more before we step into a fight like that. Frank Martin said, no, I'm in. I'm in, man, I'm ready to go. That's a tremendous one hundred and thirty five pound title fight. That really is going to pit two of the very best and brightest in that division. Before I let you go, I want to touch on Dmitri Bevil's year, because Dmitri Bevol was widely acclaimed as the fighter of the Year in twenty twenty two. He beat Canelo Alvarez, he beat Zerto Ramirez, he made himself a boatload of money. He made himself a very visible guy, and he followed that up by spending the first nine months of twenty twenty three fighting nobody. And I sent a text earlier in the week to Vadim Korniloff, who is the manager and the promoter I guess co promoter of Dmitri Bevil, and just asking like what's going on, and he said, look, we're looking at dates. In November, I saw Eddie Hearn say some things about a potential fight for Bevil in December. I understand, coming off wins like Bevil had over Canelo and Zerto, you want to get paid because he made a lot of money to fight Canelo, and he made a lot of money maybe more to fight Zerto over in Abu Dhabi, So he made a lot of money in twenty twenty two. But that he has gone the first nine months of this year without a fight is mind blowing. Like that is the definition of wasting momentum. This is a clinic on how you waste momentum. And I guess it's easy for me to say because I'm not in the ring, you know, putting my life on the line and you know, getting punched in the head. But you know, for Beevil to go this long without a fight at this stage of his career just feels like a bad career move. What do you think?
Yeah, And you can understand for the fuse cup first few couple of months, you know, waiting to see if there would be one of those big fights that would materialize, and you know, for a little while he was in that Canelo holding pattern, it didn't materialize. Yet clearly that does seem like a fight that Canelo does want to come back to at some point. So that needs something that people needs to keep in mind. You know, he wants to stay viable, stay active, so that that fab.
But not anytime soon. I mean, Canelo's not coming back to Bevil. It'll be it might be two years before we see even hear about Canelo Beevill again if we do it all, of course, And.
When you look at the options that are out there for people like, none of them really jump off the screen as something right, But you're right at this point he probably just needs to fight somebody to stay in the public consciousness. Now, one thing to consider, which I didn't know until earlier on today, is that Bevil has been having some troubles in his personal life. He lives life reportedly just went through a divorce. They have a couple of children as well, so I can imagine if that's been really brewing publicly over the last couple of months.
Then, but the stripe in his.
Personal life probably extends a little bit further back as well, and that may be a very obvious reason why things haven't moved a little bit faster. So I am willing to obviously extend some grace if that is the reason why this has happened.
Yeah, no, of course, you know that goes without saying. I just think that we've heard about Beevil looking for fights for months, you know. You know, it was Canelo in the first half of this year. You know, they were talking first about doing in June than maybe they do in September. There were negotiations for that fight. They just fell apart because Beebele won a lot of money, you know, and Canelo wanted a lot of money, so they just wasn't a big enough pot available to them. Then you heard about stay busy fights in the UK over the summer, none of them actually materialize. It seems to me that Beevol has wanted to fight for months now, and because of his financial needs, those fights have just been not not been able to come together. And maybe if you're twenty five, that's okay, but Beevil's in his early thirties. Was he thirty two to thirty three years old right now? These years you don't get back, you know, And I understand like fighting you know, lower level guys, maybe isn't all that appealing to Dmitri Beevil right now, But you know, you gotta stay viable, you gotta stay visible. There's too many guys in boxing that are just waiting for these massive paydays. I mean, I look at Andy Ruiz, who's out there all the time asking for like ten million bucks for some of the fights that that he wants, and he's been He's followed what twice since his win over Anthony Joshua, Like, they're just blown opportunities to me, and I don't really understand that. I don't know why these guys don't do more to stay active. I mean, the the biggest box office draw, the biggest star in boxing, is also the most active fighter in boxing. Canelo out for his fights, you know, at least twice a year, sometimes three times in a year. Granted he gets paid what he wants for those fights, but you know, to get to that Canelo level, you've got to stay active, and Dmitri Biebel hasn't done that this year. I mean, this has really been a lost year from him. Because you fast forward, like, you know, January, presumably we're gonna see Archer Betterbiev against Callum's Smith. After that, you know, nobody, I don't talk to anybody that thinks that better bv Bevil is anywhere close to being able to be made because the financial demands for both are too significant. I don't know what Bevil's path is here, like Canelo's gone better, bv is gone. He's got the one belt at one seventy five, but nobody defended against I just I don't know what the marketable fight out is out there for him, and with none of those available, if I was d meet your bvild, I'd want to do everything I can to fight at least twice a year. And now at this point, maybe he gets one fight in in twenty twenty three, and that feels like a complete waste of a year to me. Yeah, I mean, I feel like, you know, maybe the obvious fight to take is against Bodzick, which I understand doesn't seem all that appealing to a lot of people, but at least you have, you know, a former lineal champion taking on Bball. At least there's something there. But yeah, I mean, listen, you could be on the side of wanting fighters to make as much money as they can for every fight out and also recognize reality that people is in, which is that he will make zero dollars if he doesn't just fight some and you know there will be a detrimental impact if both to him as an athlete, but also to him in terms of marketing, if he doesn't get back in the ring. So I respect his decision if he decides. Listen, I fought for ten million dollars once. I'm not going to fight for one million dollars or less than that. I totally get that mindset. But there are going to be some consequences for people, and you know, one of them may be unfortunately.
That his asking price has to go back down. If he did so, it works against him in the long run as well. So it's it's an unfortunate spot that he's in. You know that he you know, he sort of beats the cash cow in boxing and then sort of runs out of options. It's the worst case scenario, but it's it's the position that he's unfortunate, you know what he you know, speaking.
Of opportunities, I can name one specifically. You know, for months, it's sure sounded like himI Moongia and his team wanted to fight against the Metri people. That sounded crazy to me, but you know, they seem to want it, they were motivated to make it. If I was Dmeetri bivil I would have done anything in my power to make that fight happen. I would have taken you know, not no money, but I would have taken you know, a couple million bucks to fight himI Mungia, because that is another one of those kind of king making fights. And if you're Bevil, all of a sudden, you can frame yourself as this, you know, Mexican marauder, like this guy that beats up all the top Mexicans. You beat Kelly, beat Zurdi, you take the o's from the last two guys like that. There's a there's a way to build yourself up by taking a fight like that. And look, with all due respect to the people that thought Jimi Mungia was gonna win that fight. He was not.
He was not.
That would have been easy work for Dmeetrir Bevil, who's just too big, too strong and too technical at this stage for him, Mungie, I, that's a whiff. Not taking the high May Mangia fight for demeet your Beevil is a big time whiff. And you know, if that fight never comes to fruition, you know that will be would be something I'd regret because there's a little bit of money in it, and there's a lot of notoriety in it. If you're Admeetri bevil In taking a fight like that hopefully cuts back. Because he's a great fighter. We want to see him fight more often than not. All right, Corey Arbin, follow him on social media, check him out on the the own broadcast ESPN Plus broadcast does a terrific job on all those platforms. Corey, always appreciate your time, my friend, anytime. Man, We'll see you soon and when we come back. My conversation with ericson Lubin.
All right.
Ericson Lubin is a junior middleway contender on September thirtieth. It will take on Hayesus Ramos and the co main event of Canelo Alvarez Jamal Charlo's show that you can watch on Showtime pay per view. I have been fascinated by your career for a long time and covering you since the very beginning, back returned for almost ten years ago at this point, and you've had such an interesting arc like you came out hot out of the gates when in a lot of fights in a row you had the setback, but then you come back and win a lot of high level fights in a row. You have another setback and you're back again, you know, competing in high level fights. As you look back at kind of the way your career is gone, what do you think of it?
There's been ups and downs. But you know I've always been driven. You know, I don't let the setbacks, you know, really define who I am. You know, I just I stay motivated. I stay in the gym, I stay I stay ready. That's why I'm able to fight, you know, just eight weeks after after my last fight. So you know, I'm looking to become world champion. And when I'm champion, I said it before, I say it again. I don't plan on giving the belts up. I plan on staying champion, and you know, just it's I'm real big on legacy, also big on the money. But you know, I'm real big on legacy, and I plan on leaving behind, you know, a big mark in the sport. You know, That's why I don't. I don't take you know, any easy fights. You know, I want people to remember me for that. And you know I beaten top contenders, I being former world champions, I've beat the Olympians, I beating the top prober suspects. You know, So, like I said, man, you know, it's never the easy route with me. And September thirtieth got another young, hungry kid in front of me. But I'm also young and hungry. But the difference, the difference is is I have experience. I fought the cream of the crop of the division. You know, I fought the main event. I fought, you know, Jamel Charlow. So you know I'm looking, you know, have a huge run, have a huge run this time and getting to the big fights and being the big pay per views and.
Just those big fights.
You know, you mentioned that experience. And you are still a young guy twenty seven years old, but you've been in the game, as I said, almost ten years. Does it feel like you've been in the game for ten years.
Nah, it feels shorter than that. Honestly, feel shorter than that. But you know, Tom flies man. And you know I've told my handlers from the from the beginning, I said, you know, I don't want the easy route. You know, I was five and zero fighting guys with thirty fights, and you know, you just check the resume. I've been in there with the cream of the crop of the division and you know, Hayesus Ramos, he we both got a lot of questions to answer on September thirtieth, So I'm excited for.
What questions do you have to answer?
You know a lot of people got, you know, questions like am I gonna be champion? Does he have a chin? There's a lot of questions to answer, and you know, September thirty if I can't wait. You know, that actually marks when I turned pro ten years ago, one more day, one more day on my birthday, the first you know, it marks when I turned pro. And I'm excited. I'm really excited this when I'm extra motivated.
For I feel like this is.
I feel like every fight's my biggest fight, you know, because you know, even with my last fight, I felt like, you know, that's not somebody I should be losing to. You know, I have to go in there, so I put a standard to myself. You know, I had to go in there and I had to stop lewis Arias. I had to you know, look impressive so that I'm able to be on these bigger platforms and be you know against a guy like Hazus Ramos or you know, not just Hazus Ramos. But you know I still got bigger fish to fry. You know, no pun intended. But you know those type of fights.
You mentioned the questions people on the outside might have about will you become champion? Have you ever asked yourself those questions amidst your some of your setbacks?
Nah, not really, not really. I never really asked myself. I just tell my I pushed myself to, like, you know, get there, like make it happen, like there's no reason why it shouldn't it shouldn't happen.
Make it happen, Make it happen, you know, like.
The fight with Fondorra, I knew it was, you know, a fight that I needed to win. You know, I would have been in way bigger fights than the fights with Lewis Arius or Jesus Ramos. But you know, things happen for a reason, and I just got to show and prove once again I've done it before, I do it again.
When you think back on the two setbacks, the Charlo Infandora was one more difficult to get passed for you than the other.
Not really, not really.
I feel like with the Charlo fight, you know, I was young, I was just young and hard headed. You know, you can't tell a young guy that's eighteen and no nothing. He can't tell him nothing. You know, he's undefeated. You know, he just he wants to fight everybody. You know, I wanted to fight anyone. I never said no to a fight, and I still don't say no to a fight because I feel like I'm far more skilled than a lot of these fighters in this division. But you know, when I was twenty two years old, and that's probably how Ramos is feeling. He's twenty two years old. I'm twenty seven years old. The tables turned. You know, Charlo was twenty seven years old when we fought, and I was twenty two years old. So you know, you know what they say, history repeats itself.
This time is my favorite, though, But Charlo fight, it just felt like, you know, we never knew how that fight would play out. You dipped into a shot, took it, and that's the way it goes in boxing. Did you feel that way after the fight, like you just didn't get your real chance to show yourself against him?
I felt like, you know, there was a lot more to do, you know, honestly, I felt like, you know, the round was going you know it was competitive. You know, it's two skilled fighters going at it. But then you know, dipping into a shot like that, you know, sometimes after the fight, I just had to go back and just reevaluate a lot of things, like, you know, the way I'm living, the people I'm around, you know, the type of training that I'm getting, just a whole bunch of things I had to just revalue. I had to mature more. I had to become more of a man. And you know that's what I did, I really did. I got with Kevin Cunningham. He's he's teaching me inside and outside the ring. He's teaching me, teaching me to be just more militant and more, you know, on top of my ship. And you know, I feel like that that's taking me, taking me far, and it's taking me to where I am today. You know, I'm here, I'm comine event and on a on a pay per view, even though I don't believe that I should be the B side, you know, because I'm far more experienced than a kid.
But you know, it is what it is. I just have to go in there and I have to prove people right, and I have to prove people wrong.
Do you feel like the B side, not at all. Do you think you're being pushed as the B side in a way?
I mean, you're not really.
I feel like it's just a it's just a it's just a match up, like an exciting matchup that you know that they're putting, you know, for the world to see, you know, and I feel like the winner is in line for something big, Like the winner is in line for something big. So you know, I'm excited. But you know, you know he's undefeated.
I get it.
You know he's undefeated. He's never fought anyone like myself. He's never fought anyone like I fought, like I fought the like I said before, the former champions, the Olympians, the top contenders.
I fought those guys. He hasn't. He hasn't fought them yet, and this is his first real test.
You were off for a little over a year after the Frondora fight. What was that year like for you, just.
Relaxing, you know, being with family.
Did you need it or were you kind of like, as soon as I heal, I want to get back in. What was kind of your mindset?
My team?
You know, I let my team handle everything like that you know as far as like, you know, when we should get back in the ring, like I let Kevin, I let my handlers go ahead and decide that, you know. But I was ready to get back in there, you know, not too long after. I just I just relaxed, you know, I just had a daughter during the time, so just just hung out with my kids, and you know, just focus more and see what went what went wrong, See what could go you know, see how I could make things better and different and you know, up my game some more.
How have you upped your game? You have the one fight since then you stop? Luis Arians, Do you feel like you're the same fighter, a better fighter, a different fighter?
How would you describe I feel like I'm a better fighter? You know, I felt like I went to the fund door fight with a lot on my mind. You know.
You know they say, you know, with mental health.
I was.
I was battling mental health a little bit. I don't I don't like to use that as an excuse.
You know a lot of people they battle mental health and they won't go fight. You know, I was battling mental health, and I just I still went to go fight because I felt like this is where I found my happiness. I felt like boxing and going in there, and you know, going into camp, I felt like I was feeling a lot better, but you know, I was still battling mental health and going through a lot of things, you know, things I don't really want to speak of, but some things that you know, everybody might agree with me. But I just I went into that fight, you know, with a lot on my mind, and I know with future fights to never do that, you know, never never going there with too much on your mind. Keep your mind clear, keep it, keep your energy clean, be around the right people, you know, stay happy, stay healthy.
Yeah, Is it harder as a boxer, because it's such a tough guy sport to admit to going through mental health issues before a fight like that, to even accept that they could be, you know, something that could weigh you down. Is it harder as a boxer to do that?
Sometimes sometimes I feel that way, you know, because I've always been, you know, the tough guy that's that's trying to challenge myself. I always try to challenge myself. I always want to get in there with the best. If they say he's the best, I want a piece of that, dude.
I want I want him, you know.
So it is kind of hard, but you know, sometimes you just have to be honest with yourself, stay true to yourself.
And that's what I did. You know, I'm more true to myself, and I'm hunger.
I'm still hungry. I still got a chip on my shoulder. He still got a huge chip on my shoulder. I haven't been I haven't became world champion yet, you know, and that bothers me, you know, because I was the top amateur. I was the d number one guy. You know, they're looking at me like he's gonna win a gold medal for a fact, you know. So you know, with that, with that type of praise and accolades and all that type of stuff, you know, you gotta almost become that, you know, you gotta be that world champion. And I feel like now's the time. Now's the time. I'm much more mature.
You know.
They're putting a young kid in front of me, and I feel like I gotta bring him down to earth a little bit, let him know that, you know, experience will be his best teacher.
I still remember those angry press release in USA boxing. Yes, those phone calls, those press releases, they were not happy when they lost out on Eric Salupit. You don't look past anybody offic well, maybe ask us first. You said you dealt with some of the stuff you were dealing with. How do you feel mentally going into this fight.
I feel great, I feel great, I feel superb. I'm excited because you know, my last fight was just eight weeks ago, eight nine weeks ago, so you know, going back into the ring. I got the phone call probably like two weeks after the fight, you know, selling shape, I went to I went back to the gym. You know, I probably took a week off, not even a couple of days off, went back to the gym, and you know, got that phone call like, hey, do you want to fight Ramos? And this is honestly a fight that I've asked for prior prior to him fighting Joey Spencer, I think, or maybe it was around that same time I asked for the fight. I said, you know, let me get Ramos. You know, they came back to me like, oh no, it doesn't make sense or this and that.
You know, but after the.
Joey Spencer fight, which I tipped my hat to him, he did look good in that fight, you know, he did what he was supposed to do. He got rid of Joey Spencer. But is Joey Spencer the caliber fighter?
Is he special? Is he elite? Is he on the elite level?
I don't think so. And no, no, I'm not trying to knock his game or anything. You know, Joey Spencer, he get it.
How he lived. But you know, this is the fight game. This is it's either you got it or you don't. So you know, this is a fight I asked for and you know, they think he's ready, so I can't wait.
It's so good for the box to be active too, I think, Yeah, it's look at the guy at the top of the bill, you know, the biggest star in boxing, maybe the most active guy.
Yeah, thing, I mean that.
I think those two were connected. When you're that good being active, I would assume matters.
Yeah.
I told him that. I said, man, this is going to bring the best out of me, you know, me being active. You know, for the past couple of years, twenty twenty one I fought once, twenty twenty two, I fought once, twenty twenty I fought once.
You know.
Twenty nineteen is when I fought three times, and I beat Gallimore in impressive fashion. You know I was barely touched in that fight. You know, I fought three times that year. I think I walked away with two knockouts. I'd beat j Smith that year, and you know I felt I felt real good, you know, being active, and I feel like this is I'm back to that.
I'm back to that, dude.
You know, so September, you get asked after the fight if you could face either Fondora or Jamel Charlo next, What is your answer?
It'll be Jimal Charlo. It'll be Jamal Charlo. You know, I feel like well boxing, you know, they say you're only as good as your last fight. So you know, people might see, uh might might see the fight with Fondora or even a fight with lewis arias well.
Lewis arias you know, that was just like people may take that as a tune up.
But they look at the big fight that I took against Fandor and they may say, oh, he's not ready for Charlo, or he's this and he's that. They may have they questions and whatever their opinions, but like I said, man, I I I want the best dudes. I want the best dudes.
I want.
I've I've told myself that I'll be fighting Canelo one day. I'll be fighting Canelo in a few years when I turned pro, and you know, I'm not I'm not too far away. I'm not too far away. So I feel like a re match with Charlo it's gonna happen. It's definitely gonna happen, and I'm gonna be far, far, far more ready than I was the first time.
You still keep up with Mike Tyson, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah, You're the first guy signed him right to Iron Mike Promotions back in the day.
Yeah, yep, I saw Mike actually at the Tank and Ryan Garcia fight. Yeah, we chopped it up a little bit, you know, cool with some of his family members.
You know, we chopped it up. It was it was a good time you were active back then.
That was a yeah fall ten years, first year, first year, Yeah, incredible, incredible, well Ericson, Good to see you back, man. Like I said, I'm a big fan. You've you always take the toughest tests, and you know, even when you go down, you get back up again. Here you are once again in a big fight, and I hope you get through it. Hope we see in bigger fights down the line. Man, thanks for joining me. Thank you. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Corey Erdman and ericson lubin for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts, and I'll see you next week.