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Hosted by s I S Chris Mannix. That was my Moments now with interviews, analysis and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix. Hello, and welcome to the Latin Snake Podcast. I am your host, Sergio the Latin Snake. More. I've been on this show enough times to be the host, and I have a special guest here today. He's a sportswriter for an aging magazine and Sports Illustrated, but I call him Chris Mannix, the reporter. Chris, how are you only one of us is aging at this table right now? It's you. I feel a my soul feels like Methuselah. Yes, but I don't, Okay, I'm not. I don't like to go through literature and with you, and that's because I'm poetic Mannix. I'm poetic with my words. If I had your education, I'll show what writing really is. Sergio Mora the Latin Snake, joining me on boxing with Chris Mannox Um, Sergio, I've got a whole bunch of things I want to get into you with you on the show. We've got Edgar Berlanga signing a new deal with Matt Room, Andy Ruiz with some interesting options over the next few months. Jamal Charlo is apparently coming back, but first I want to hit one of your sweet spots here. The WBC on Wednesday released in a statement that said, if Jake Paul wins his fight against Tommy Fury next week, the WBC will rank him in the cruiserweight division. H your thoughts on the sanctioning body that once awarded you a title. I was giving Jake balls for deeply embarrassed to say that. I'm I'm part of that, that that lineage, that great lineage of the Green Belt, the belt that Roberto Durant held, Mike Dyson, Sugary, Leonard, Thomas Hearns. And now Jake Paul has a potential potential fight to fight for that same belt with only six fights, and he hasn't fought one real body. It's pathetic, man, It's pathetic, and it's a respected organization has been around for a long time, selling out, just like everyone else in media, you included selling out covering this circus. Man, I'm done with it. I'm done talking about it. Until this man starts fighting real boxers, then maybe you can rank them the top. You know, one hundred. I mean cruiserweight is cruiserweight is is a limited amount of boxes on this so I could see him getting ranked top fifty. There's only like fifty cruiserweights, so yeah, that way, but let him fight a real boxer, then the WBC and all these other organizations could sell out. Other than that, what a circus man, what a clown show. I can't believe I'm gonna say this, but I agree with you on something related to Jake Paul. I am an unabashed fan of Jake Paul and what he's brought to boxing over the last couple of years, but none of it has been against the quote unquote real boxers. And the idea that beating Tommy Fury on the backs of a win over Tyron Woodley would somehow qualify Jake Paul for a w BC ranking is ridiculous. It's completely ridiculous. You know what this is, Sergio. If the WBC ranks Jake Paul, that means whoever the WBC champion is can defend his title against Jake Paul, because you can't really defend your title against unranked fighters. So this is the w BC trying to slither their way into the Jake Paul University, trying to get some of that Jake Paul money when he faces. Who is the Is Junior Macabu still the WBC champion? You know what's gonna happen. I'm gonna come back. I'm gonna make my comeback at cruiser Weight. I'm gonna make my comeback at cruiser Weight. I'm gonna call Jake Paul. I'm gonna be his number one mandatory. This is ridiculous, man, It's it's ridiculous, man. And when that man fights an actual professional boxer, you know, for for a WBC ranking or whatever it is, title eliminator, he's gonna get slaughtered. And this sport is just gonna have another black eye and the many black guys that its head and Sergio, you know where this is going. Do you know who is defending his WBC title on the undercard of Jake Paul against Tommy Fury. It's Junior Maccabu, who's fighting Babu Jack on the undercard. So, g I wonder if Babu Jack beats Macabo, which is certainly possible, or Macabu wins against Bobby Jack, you think one of those guys would be more than eager to defend his title against Jake Paul. This is pathetic, It is pathetic. You're trying to get into Jake Paul business by giving him as a ranking that he's not qualified for. Privilege at its highest. That's privilege. It's not Jake Paul's fault though, it's your sanctioning body, w BC. It's their fault. It's it's boxing's fault two. Because you guys have splattered his name all over boxing media. That shouldn't be the bullshit that should not be making. Why why do we consistently bring up Jake Paul on Jazz? Why do you write about him and put him on the cover of sports oilers? Why every single time we're talking about this clown, you and every other sportswriter are giving him up. I think he's doing interesting things in boxing, and I think he's elevating other fighters. Well, he just interested his way to a WBC title shot. He did, and that's you're saying no, no, that's MAURICEO. Suleman and the people work at the WBC are doing this unilaterally. I got nothing to do with it. It took me over twenty years, almost eight years as a professionals, five time world champion and a great fighter and burning forest to get my shot at that green belt, and this guy is gonna get it just by fighting Tommy Fury hashtag. That's where boxing isna beat Tommy. Taking the discussion for another day, all right, I want to jump into the big signing this week, which is Matchroom Boxing wins the Edgar Berlanga Sweepstakes. They signed Berlanga to a multi fight deal. In the press release, Eddie Hearn and Edgar Berlanga both mentioned a future fight against Canelo Alfred. So let's start here. Berlanga signing with match Room. Do you think this is a good decision? Really good decision because the match Room has the dates. You know a lot of people say you earn with Arn Hern and uh, you know, he Eddie Hern puts you on the big stage all over the country, and that's where Berlanga needs. I mean this time, you know last one last month when we did your podcast, I told you Berlanga needed to get out of New York. He needed to go to the other popular areas. Do what they're doing with Tank Davis, you know, extend this popularity. He's a popular Puerto Rican puncher. He's gonna sell anywhere in the Latin Latin based fan base. So with Eddie Hearn. I think he's gonna it's gonna be perfect. Man. They can fight him in Texas, they can fight him in California, they can find him in Chicago. That power is gonna bring a lot of popularity, is gonna bring a lot of eyeballs and ultimately, if they can move on the right way, and I think Eddie Hearn will do that, I can potentially see him getting a big fight. Okay, let's start with. They're not going to fight him in Texas. They're not going to fight him in California. They're not going to bring him to the UK. They're going to be at the Hulu Theater in Madison Square Garden doing fights there because Berlanga sells tickets there. This is not as signing Sergio that means Burlan is gonna go on this world tour. He's gonna be a New York fighter. But it probably is the smartest decision for him because look, he's not ready at this point for a world title fight against the likes of David Benavidez or Caleb Plan. He's ready for Jamal Charlo type. He's just not there yet. Um Eddie Hearn. Over the course of this year is gonna match him very carefully, probably against top fifteen, top twenty ranked guys in his next fight, and then move him up the ranks in the hopes that he can get two big wins, so that in May of four should say, as Cannella was looking for his next opponent, Berlanga will be a viable option because you and I both know if Burlana is undefeated and he knocks out a couple of guys, that's not the best fight for Canelo because berlan is not on the highest level, but it's one of the most marketable fights for Canelo Mexico versus Puerto Rico. They could make that fight a monster somewhere in vague if if Burlana gets back to his knockout ways. But he hasn't knocked out a fight in his last four fights, and he struggled, He's he's shown vulnerability. So look, he he had what sixteen seventeen straight first round knockouts. That's the reason everybody was glued on Burlena and that's why his popularity rolls so fast. But in his last four or fights, I mean with with fighters like what Cosras who gave bj Saunders down, Uh, Steve Rolls didn't get distance. Yeah, I mean what these guys are supposed to knock out, and he didn't. He tried to bite Alexis and Google great, and then there was another one that he couldn't stop. But these were four guys Nicholson. So if he gets back to his knockout ways, but I I I'm gonna have to push back here. I don't think he just knocks out. Anybody's gonna have to knock out A name doesn't have to be a former champion. I could see him getting uh pinned against Diego. Put you the popular punchers at both of them are on the same age and they're early. You're not gonna waste Berlanga Procheo like Pochecko might win that fight. The winner of that maybe gets Pacheco versus Canello is not as big as fight as Berlanga versus Canello. They're not gonna do that. They're not gonna like just because they're popular in New York doesn't mean that that doesn't guarantee you'll fight with connections. You would make a lot of money. Look, they both mentioned Canello on the press release. Eddie Hearn signed this guy in part because he dangled Cannello. He can be I love Jeckchecko, but he's not and I think beats him. So that's what I'm saying. You're not gonna waste Edgar Berlanga that way. Keep developing Perchecko, I think is only like twenty Like, there's really no need to rush Pacheco into that type of fight and waste Edgar. Well, then maybe Berlanga needs to come back and knockout a fight like this is what wants to fight again at one he does it actually isn't a bad fight. Let me ask you this, do you think Berlanga is good? Like he had the sixteen first round knockouts, then there were the four decisions. He's still undefeated. But the jury is out on whether this guy is an elite level fighter. Do you think he is? He's not elite, but he has um, he has a lot of potential and yes he's good. H he has he has damn good skill. He had. The problem with him was he was pigeoned holding that little that little circle in New York. That's what I'm telling you. Why do you keep calling New York a little circle? It's the boxing capital of the crazy, the boxing it's the mecca. It's the mecca because of the old days of all the greats that fought there. But it was in Vegas for that. But but recently, who did you have zap Judah there fighting that? What are we talking about? They're great fights in New York a j Ruiz. There massive New Yorkers from New York fighting there. They just stay in that area and they don't they don't branch out. That's what I mean. I'm not talking about just I'm talking about a New Yorker only fighting in New York. Any to get every promoter would kill and they work trying to kill each other to try to get a fighter that sells tickets in New York. They don't grow on trees surgery. Edgar Berlanga does. So he's not gonna leave New York and he shouldn't leave New York. You put him in Texas. It's a waste of Edgar Berlanga's popularity. It just is I think he made Going back to your question, man, just thought there. Going back to your question, I think it was the right choice for him to go with the match Room. Wasn't he with Top Rank? He was with I think Top Rank um moved him very well, moved them very well, but they moved them to where they wanted him to get better. And they did that by pinting, putting them against fighters that he wasn't gonna knock out. So, believe it or not, Top Rank did an excellent job with him, uh going the distance because he wasn't gonna keep he wasn't gonna keep developing by knocking guys out and number three minutes, So Top Rank did their job. Now Burlinga is going for the money, and that's a smart move. I agree. Getting the money collected a check. Now we'll find out if he's worthy of that check in terms of his talents in the ring. All right, I want to ask you about Andy Ruiz, the former heavyweight champion who seemed to have a couple of options in front of him right now. Ruise has been in talks for weeks, if not months, for a fight against Deantay Wilder. That is a tremendous fight, two x champions. Ruise has shown a great chin in the past while there still has that big right hand coming off that win over Robert Hillennious, but we haven't really seen closing level progress in that fight. We haven't seen it get to the finish line. And now the ib F has ordered Ruise against Philip Ergovic for the interim title, the title of course, held right now by Alex and Us. So Ruise out there with two options, which direction do you think he should go? Uh? Stylistically, he can't go wrong with either opponent Ergovich. I think er ergo beats Ruise, but I think Ruise beats Wilder really yeah. And I think there's only one of those fights that you can sell on pay per view, and that's Ruise Wilder. So whatever's gonna make more money for Andy Ruiz considering that he's he's already accustomed to making, you know, multimillions. I think that's the fight that he shouldn't go after is Deontay Wilder. Wild There's only lost to the absolute best in Tyson Fury. There's no shame in that. There is no shame in losing with Tyson Fury. Now you go and fight a former champion in Andy Ruiz, That's gonna be very popular no matter where you put that fight. It's just like just like our last topic, berlinga. Andy Rui is gonna be popular in l A or in the South or in Texas or in the East Coast. And then if you match them up with Deontay Wilder, they're just two different contrasting looks and personalities, demographic fan base. Yes, sign me up. That's the fight to Andy Rui should take. I think Ruise Wilder is certainly the better fight, the more marketable fight. Way Ruiz has to decide in the next few weeks is if that fight is going to be made, if PBC can put that fight together, because PBC has got a lot of big fights coming up with you know, you get Ryan versus Tank, Presumably that fight's gonna get secured. That's gonna fight happen in April. You've got Benavidez versus Plant. That fight is signed, great fight that fights in March. Eryl Spence is going to come back, presumably in May. They're investing a lot of money in these pay per views, so Rui has got to make sure that there's money there for him for a Wilder fight, guaranteed money there for him for a Wilder fight, because if there's not, I don't know that I agree with you that Krgovich would be RUI. Maybe I'm kind of a prisoner of the moment. But Herkovic didn't look that great against jay Lee Young. And I know that there are different types of fighters, but Ruiz experience his handspeed. He's gonna be a problem for Herkovich. It's not gonna be able to walk through him in that fight. So if the money is pretty good, and we'll see what a purse bid turns out like, who bids on it, how much is on the table. But if the money is good, Ruiz needs to strongly consider taking that fight because if he wins that fight, he'll at least be a title holder, like an interim title holder. This WBC fight is not for a title, it's for the mandatory challenge position for the belt that Tyson Fury currently owned. So if I'm Ruiz like only he knows what the landscape looks like right now. But if he's not sure that there is money for the Wilder fight in June or July, then he's got to hop on this Hergovich fight, try to win that belt, and then he's gonna give himself a whole bunch of options after that. I think that the risk doesn't match the reward for the fighting with Wilder. I would take you are you that impressed with like you didn't mean what the Jong fight was bad? Like Jong is a huge, undefeated, strong fighter with a with a weird timing south pawl. It's a perfect example of why why you can look bad. And Ergovitch still got the win, so all that that's all that matters. It's he beat an undefeated, you know, olympian and and that's all that matters. Now, if Ergovich, you know, gives Andy Ruiz issues and beat something Andy Ruise is done there. You know, there's no more marketing him or bringing him back up to a title fight, you know, especially at at this point of his career. So Andrews needs to go where the money is, where the biggest fight is, where the more action is and the more eyeballs are gonna attract. And that's gonna be only the bronze Bomber. It's a great fight. And if I was choosing, if all things requal, and absolutely go in that direction. But he's got to make sure that fights available otherwise, jump on the fight against Ergovich, try to win that belt, and then all of a sudden you can challenge Wilder again at some point this summer. That fights always going to be marketable for him, and then maybe you could force yourself into a fight against Tyson Fury, Like if Fury beats us and across your fingers. I hope that fight happens in April, but if he beats Oo Sick, you might have to decide do I want to keep that belt or do I want to fight and Ruis. Since since all of a sudden the champion Uisa lost to Joshua that they've been moving him right with names. You know, Chris Areola never was a champion, but everyone knows Chris Arreola. Louis Ortiz wasn't a champion, but he's still a big dog. All right. Let's talk about Jamal Charlo, who is coming back. Last seen in the ring in June of Charlot was on social media this week saying he is coming back and he's going to defend his w BC middleweight title. Sergio Charlo is still a pretty big name in boxing, but he hasn't looked like an elite fighter in some time. That win over one Massius Montiel was lackluster to say the weeks. At least. Now he's coming off a two year layoff, He's I think about to be thirty three years old. Uh do you think Jamal Charlo can find his way back to being a top fighter at one sixty or one sixty eight? One sixty yes, because that division is open uh for the taking. You know you have an aging Glafkin there. But other than that, it's open. So one sixties where he should be focused on. But can he compete at one eight Yes, because what he's six foot, he has a long reach. He can distribute that that weight to But can he beat a Canello of Benavid is even a killer plant? I would say no. So can he compete with them yes? Can he sell and make some money, yes, but can he beat them? I don't think so. So one sixty I think is where he should campaign. And uh, you know he can be the big dog there. I mean we know that the charts like they demand attention, they like a big knockouts, they like the big shows. And if they can, if they can conquer another division, just like at one fifty four and his brother that that's both those brothers can can become undisputed. Well, Jamal Charlo is you're right, he commands attention. But part of that because he's frequently in big fights, and that is a big reason he's gravitated to the level he is today is undisputed champion at one four. Jamal, Look, he at one sixty, he has not faced anyone that really resembles a top guy. The biggest name he beat with Sergey, Derek and Shanko. He has not had what you would call a marquee win since he beat Julian Williams back in one four. That was almost six years ago. Now, um, it's it's been a long time. I just look, I think boxing is better when it has a character like Jamal Charlo in it. I just have questions about whether he's gonna get back to that level and at one sixty, like, who's he gonna fight? Like what if he was not willing to fight? Like and I hate to keep bringing this up, but to meet yours Andreid, Like is he really going to fight jennebec in a title unification fight? Is he going to fight? I mean even like the fight he should take is Carlos Damas. Carls Damas. Again, your sanctioning body keeps getting screwed over, like Jamal Charlo has not defended his title in almost two years, and Carlo Sodamez is sitting there as the interim title holder, going, when am I going to get my shot? Or when am I going to get elevated? Like? Is Charlo gonna fight Carlo Sodamez for decent but not great money? Is he going to fight? I mean, look the middleweights belt that Golofkin has, they're not you know, Golofkin just gave up his IBF title. That's gonna go to somebody without a huge name, um his w B a belt, like if Goloftin gives that up. Is Charlo versus Arislandy Laura like a big money fight that might be the most easy to make fight in the w B in the PBC universe, But is that going to pay him the kind of money that he's looking for? I don't And at one six, like, I'd love to see him fight David Benavidez, like at the end of this year, but I don't know. There's nothing I've seen from Charlotte at this point that tells me he can be competitive with Benevidez. Benavidez is an elite guy at one sixty eight. Charlo at one sixty has looked good but not great. So I think the short answer is no, he can't get back to the highest of levels at one sixty eight. Now he can do it at one six and a title. La fight to like you just you just stole the words out of my mouth. Laura makes perfect sense. Laura, as a former champion, he's been around a long time, he has a name, and he's beat herble, especially at this point of his career, you know, nearing forty um and Charlo, like you said, he likes to take these type of fights where they're known, they're they're they're aging champions, or they're coming up and he knocks him out and he beats him. I mean, not not for nothing when it comes to uh uh, it's only Laura. Look at the fight that he had the fight of the year at one fifty four. I mean he's become a South Paul sniper. Now he's becoming a banger because he doesn't have the legs to carry out twelve rounds anymore. So that just falls into Charlot's uh you know that it falls into his realm. I guess he can he can actually beat an aging fighter like Laura. But if it was old school Laura, that sniper that can move him, you know, ring generalship pop that jab in front of him. Then I would say stay away, But right now, at this point that that fight makes the most sense. I'm surprised that he's going back to one sixty, Like he's a big guy, like you'd figure outgrow hundred and sixty pounds, But I guess he's gonna go back there and defend that belt. I mean, it's probably going to be against a really low level guy in his first time back. But if Laura winds up elevated to the full champion at one sixty, that's it's a pretty good showtime fight that you could make between Charlo and Laura, hundred and sixty pounds title unification fight. I kind of like that fight. If Goloftin winds up giving up his belt, I still have no idea what come off he's doing, Like that's we talked about this last week on the show. But you know, he's giving up one belt. I think he's probably gonna wind up giving up this second one, and then I don't know what the game plan is for him moving forward. He still wants to fight, but you know he's probably gonna do his have his next fight without his title belts. I just think that's a most likely outcome there. Um, all right, big fight this weekend is over in the UK. You've got Leewood six pound title holder, full title holder after the mess with Leo Santa Cruz was figured out. He is going to face Mauricio Laura, who has made a habit of, you know, beating up Eddie Hearn opponents. Um, this is a good fight. I think these two guys are gonna go to war. Leewood's talking about meeting him in the center of the ring. I don't think Mauriceo Laura even knows how to box. He's just gonna go to brawl with him. Um. You know, Leewood could have faced a lot of guys in this fight. You know, coming off an injury, he could have faced a lesser opponent. Uh. Smart decision by Leewood to take on Mauriceo Laura. No, it was not a smart decision. But this is what boxing fans want. They want champions to take big challenges. And whether it was a smart decision, no, but it was a marketable decision. It was it was based on the fans. It was based on the fact that he wants to clean up Josh Warrington's mess is the fact that he feels he's the champ and he can take on all calling commerce And what a statement he'll make if he can beat just not even knock out, if he can beat a fighter this caliber that. I mean, he's a hard puncher. Laura is a hard puncher. He's relentless, he's he has that style kind of like east so Cruz, you know, the pit bull that gave Tank everything he can handle. They have a certain type of style where they're always in your chest. The power is not gonna be enough to keep him off. They know how to cut off the ring, they know to fight on the inside. It's gonna be very tough, very tougher wood to to keep him off for twelve rounds. That's why I favor Laura to win by by stoppage. So is it a smart decision? No, it is Laura by knockout Laura, but knockout yeah, man, I just think it's the wrong style matchup. I mean, Laura already knows what it's like to go across the prompt Pond and fight against the British fighter in British soil, and he's shined. These are the type of fight that these Mexicans wait for, man, They wait for that phone called to shock the world man, and they do it every single time. They don't throw caution to the wind, British wind. I can see, you know. Look, it's not like Laura is. Laura is a unbeatable opponent. Like he comes in kind of crazy, like he throws wild um. He puts himself in vulnerable positions. And I think Leewood is better equipped to face him than Josh Warrington was. Josh Warrington was always a little chinny, I felt, and marcial Laura took advantage of that just beating him up, and Josh Warrington didn't have much coming back in terms of firepower. I think Leewood is going to have something coming back. I think he's gonna be able to absorb more of the punishment that Lara is gonna dish out. I think he's gonna be able to throw. Look, Laura leaves himself open a lot. Even his last fight that we call it was an Amilio Sanchez, but he can take a punch. And the fact that it's not that Warrenton was chinny, it's the fact that Laura is a hard puncher. It's you know he doesn't have a hard hundred percent knockout ratio, but he has a high knockout ratio. But if you hear the sound of his power shots when they land and how they affect opponents, you know that that power is real and it's gonna carry. Want to see how how Warranton's gonna act. I'm sorry, um wood Wood is gonna act when he gets clipped man, when he gets hit in the chin. How is he going to react? And that we're gonna find out within the fourth or fifth round. And if he can take that power, then he will when he will out box lawyer because like you said, he's vulnerable. But if he doesn't take that that power, which I think he won't, he's gonna get stopped. To be fair, Laura has been stopped before. It was early his career, early in his career. Took a first round knockout early in his career. And it was at that way. It wasn't like it was at a wrong Wait, it got beat by a guy named Elliott Chavez back in career. That was only five years ago. Know what six rounder? I forget what it was six rounder career. I mean those four six rounders are always dangerous. I don't take that get knocked on the first round of it. But he's gone on on a serious streak, you know. And Lee Wood's been knocked out too, like he was knocked out by I'm going back. It's also und score Gavin McDonald in UM two thousand fourteen, so it's been a long time since Wood was stopped. But both these guys have proven they can't get knocked out. I think it's a great fight, like it's it's a fun, relevant fight for hundred six pounds title in the winner of this fight is gonna be a player in that division for some of the big fights that that we can make. Last thing for you, Josh Taylor has apparently moved on from his back and forth with Jack Catterall. The w b O has ordered Taylor to face Tafia Lopez in his next fight. That's a fight the top rank was already discussing. They promote both guys, so that's a relatively easy fight to put together. UM. I asked you about the right move for Lee Wood. Is it the right move for Josh Taylor to pass on the Catterall rematch and go straight into a showdown with it's gonna keep it real again. Yes, do not fight Cata. Catterall is a wrong style matchup. You found that on the first fight. He's a strong, very short salt Paul that just keeps coming. He knows how to fight in compact spurts. He's explosive, he goes to the body. It's the timing that he has. Yes, stay away from every every fighter, every champion faces a fighter where they shouldn't fight him again. If they got by the first the first fight with a with a with a dirty win, a close win, or even a draw, don't face him again. I had one of those. His name was Alvina Yalla. Be talking about. I'm telling you right now. Alviana y'alla was a hell of a fighter. Put bring up his box right, because he's only He's only after he got a draw with me. He went twelve rounds with Arthur Abraham, who was a beast, knocking out everyone. He so, Alvina y'alla this fight against Curtis Stephen. Stephen stopped him and that was after he was late his career. Later in his career, when he got he was already getting beaten stopped. But y'all, that was a damn good fighter. So when I got a draw with him and they asked me if I wanted to fight him again, I said no. And there's no shame in that because no one ever remembers that he got knocked out by Abraham in the last round of that fight. Yeah, but he went twelve into the twelfth ronts and that's when Abraham was not the middle world, and that's when everything and that's when everyone was getting knocked out by Abraham. Were you gonna fight Abraham if you want that fight? No, No, And I wouldn't have fought him anyway. I'm telling you right now, this is this is what it is to be a calculating a decision maker as as as a boxer and and and and the people that control your career. So no, I wouldn't advise him to fight Catterall because he's just the wrong style matchup. Go for the bigger name. TiO Fimo Lopez, a former undisputed champion, had all the belts he had, he beat lomon Chenko. He's a name that's who you want on your resume. A former champion that's gonna still beat cell Tickets is popular and TiO Fimo whether he's still having his issues, He's still having his personal problems. Those are always gonna be there, lingering, So he's he's gonna be there right for the picking. He's right for the picking. So I think Josh Sailor is an incredible talent, incredible talent, and he should go after another incredible talent that's vulnerable mentally in TiO Fimo Lopez. So yeah, that's the fight to make. You know, I somewhat disagree that Tafimo is vulnerable. I think too much was made of how difficult to fight against Sando Martin was, Like Tanner Martin is gonna be a difficult opponent for everybody. Wasn't just that. It wasn't just that performance. With his personal life, It's got a lot going on there. But I don't I think he's capable of bouncing back and being an elite guy at one fort I do. I do believe he has the good for it. I think, uh, a Josh Taylor matchup is a lot better for him than what Sando Martine matchup would be. Josh Taylor at least we'll try to bang with him a little bit in that fight, and that's you know, I think Temo has the size at one forty to be able to do that. I mean, I do think cambos Is banged with him and was able to hurt and drop. There was a lot going going to be more. That's exactly what I mean. There's gonna be a lot more. Like he was going through a divorce at that time. He had a bad weight cut at that time that ight have been postponed like three times. That doesn't excuse anything. He lost parent squaring that fight, But I think he's gonna be I think taafemo if he's an underdog in that fight, and he probably will be. I think he's a very live underdog in that fight. But to the point of the question, I I do agree with you. I think this is the right move to fight Jack Catterall. Again, was for ego, right, and you know it was because he dropped all the other belts just so he could be in a position to defend a title against Jack Catterall. So with Taya Female on the table, it's a bigger money fight, it's a more relevant fight, and it's a better fight for him to potentially win if they fight in June. I feel for Jack Catterall, but you know this was around social media. I think Jack Catterall could put it together and fight. We just Program like that's a good fight for Jack. I don't think it's gonna we'll face the matter. I think PROG backs off on Catterall than Program attack. I don't think you will. But Program's and begging for a fight. Fight. Program is too smart. He's way too smart to take that fight. To take that, I think Jack Catterall is Muhammad Ali. What are we talking about? He's too much risk. What's the reward and beating Catterall? You fight, and it's a it's a marketable fight in the who's been staying busy? Program has been staying busy. He has nobody can fight. He his manager hasn't had a man stay busy. Get paid. How big names, it doesn't matter. If it doesn't matter, you don't get paid to fight anybody, anyone in the top fifteen. You look, you want to pull up the top fifteen rankings for yes, and I'll tell you right now pay. So you think, all right, we'll do this. It shouldn't be Catta. I'll tell you that a short, strong south paw that's confident in one He's just waiting for that phone call to fight a big name and and and strike again. It's just like he saw Cruise after he fought Tink Davis. Why is nobody calling? Uh? Did people? Did Stevenson astified him, Yes he did, Yes he did. Of course TeVeS won't fight people. Pitpole crew said no, like all right, that Pitpole has been passing on some fights in the last That doesn't take away from the fact that he did so. Of course Stevenson was publicly calling him out. But everyone's avoiding Stevenson. You're speaking to different things, right, Red's programs number one w BC champion. Right, so you get on the list. You got Taffimo Lopez, he didn't want that fight. Uh, Sandra Martin, you want Taffin would have fight Santa Martino. Will be the next guy getting the ring with Santa Martine. You got Gary Antoine Russell who knows no one knows him, no one, no idea. There, Jose Septa, we've gone down the room before. Um, Sergey lippinnettes there you go about that. Jose Ramirez didn't want it. Ryan Garcia's on the list. Barboza, that's not bad. Ba is a good fight. But i'd rather take lipping. It's lipping. Netz has more more experience with the bigger names. You know, he's been in there with what Mikey Garcia, So it doesn't matter if we got knocked out by Mikey Garcia. He fought a four division world jamp and so being able to beat a name like that, that makes sense. Steve Spark, No, you think Steve Sparks great because what's his name? Montana loved threw him on the ring, the ring, But now I don't like that fight Brandon Lee on that list our back at the bottom half the top. FI. Look, the point is like, if you think Jack, like Jack Catterall, is a good fighter, not a great fighter, And if there's money on the table to fight Jack Cadderall and defend your title, you do it. You do it. Why wouldn't you because it's a wrong style matchup. I'd rather find how is that positive? Instead of Catterall fight a snooze fest against nobody. You don't get paid for those fights. We just progress no promoter. I know he doesn't and that that means more money in his pocket. He still he's still making a lot of money. Would you like to like FaceTime Sam Katkowski in here, just Program's manager, and ask him if there's a lot of money out there for re just right now. It's not. It doesn't take away from what he is, but there's not a lot of money out there for him because guys don't want to fight him. Jose Ramirez said, nope, I'm gonna go fight Richard Comy. Dane me Lopez said nope, I'm gonna go fight Uh, Josh Taylor, You've got to go down the list to find guys willing to fight. We just Program is that much of a beast, man. I mean, that's why you gotta fight Catterall. If there's money in the UK to fight, if you take it, were just probably be the favorite against Catall. You know that we just might be the best guy at one. Yeah, but then he's gonna give up. First of all, he's gonna be fighting another south Pall and that's difficult, and then you're fighting a brit and no, man, I just I I don't know. I just think there's better options. He should stay in the US, keep doing what he's doing. He fights whoever they put in front of him. So whoever they put in front of him here in his home, home country. I think that's what he should do. I look, i'd love to see it. I don't think there's any money for it. Like maybe you get Catterall to fight in the US. I don't know if you do that. So you do it in the US, then then at least you would have some some judging in your favor. You know, if you if you go, if you go to the UK or anywhere in the UK, you're gonna have the fans against you, and you know they they're rabid fans. They come out in the tens of thousands. Every punch is gonna be a new one at all. So you have the fans against you, then you're gonna have the judges against you and the referee against you too much, too many cards stacked against you. So yeah, if Cattera is willing to come over here, then that's a different story. All right. You're back to work this weekend? Is that what I understand? Absolutely, not calling you. We're calling the fight on Saturday. Thank god, it's not with you. Thank god, it's Corey Erdman, a better writer, a better reporter, and a better commentator than you. Shout out Coreyman. She's Saturday baby. Do you. I mean, we're partners, we're broadcast buddies. They pay me to work with you, my friend. They pay me, and you pay me to be here. That's the only reason I'm here. And when we come back my conversation with Eddie Hearn. Alright, Eddie Hearn is here match Room Boxing, match Room Boxing USA. He's got a huge event this weekend in Nottingham Leewood against MAURICEO Law hundred and twenty six pound title fight. That's a fight you can watch all over the world on the Zone. And Eddie joins me from notting him to talk about that fight more. Eddie, before I get into would versus Laura, which I think you're a little crazy for for doing. Um. You had a big announcement this week. Edgar Berlanga was signed to match Room. Edgar of course, hunduring sixty eight pound contender, undefeated, twenty and oh uh, popular guy does sells good tickets, a lot of tickets in New York. This was a guy that a lot of promoters were after, whether it was PBC Golden Boy. Um, what wasn't you think that you know, got him to sign with you? What was the carrot in your mind that that pushed you over the top. I think there's a few things really. I mean, obviously, we've got a good reputation. You know, we deliver for our fight as we paid people on time, and we we we don't lie, and that's quite rare in boxing, and that that's a reremendous Those are tremendous digs right there. He just stuck. You just gave a PBC dig. There. We pay on and a little bit. They're a little bit, but we know what's going on with our day right now. We a little bit at the end of the day. Yeah, promoters not paying fighters, He's not you know that that's not a dig of the current situation. That's historical. You know. There are so many promoters out there that don't pay fighters on time that you know, and we've never been that that company. So that's one thing. Number two is obviously we have a great broadcast deal and a great broadcast partner in his zone. Three. We got on really well. You know, obviously I have a close relationship with Keith Connolly. He trusts us as well, He's worked with us in the past. I just clicked with Edgar, you know, he's a he's a cool guy obviously, as am I um and we just we got on and of course number four, can I love Albert's I mean, look, everybody around that weight class wants to fight Cannano Alvarist, right. We know that if Edgar Berlanga comp proved himself as a world class contender, Canello Algarez against Blanga is huge. Long way Togo got to go through the opposition. But if you're going to back someone to deliver a Canno Alvareist fight, at the moment, we're you know, we're we're that that that company, so many different things, and the ability to headline him in New York, get behind the event, get behind the promotion, give him that superstar attention, and I'm excited. I like this guy. I think he's a big character. He is a big character, and you alluded to it. Though he has to prove that he's a world level fighter, and I think that is an open question with Edgar Berlang. He looked great in his first sixteen fights, all markouts. Last four he's gone the distance. No shame in that, but he was knocked down two fights previously. In his last fight, he attempted to wait his opponent which got him a six month suspension. Like, what is the plan for Edgar Brolanga to get him to a Canelo fight? Well, definitely less fighting, um, but I just think that there was so much hype around the sixteen first round chaos and then he carried a little bit of an injury, you know, and I just think went through the opposition for a couple of different styles. But that's okay because those fights having will enable us to get the fights that we need. You know, people believe they can beat Edgar Blana. You know, it's not like he the last couple of performances have made people think he's are to better be if you know, he's just they believe they can beat him. What we need to do is get a top fifteen guy or they're they're abouts for the first one, and then we need a top ten guy for the second one, and then we need to start calling out Canelo Alvarage. That's what we need to do. But it's a long way to go, you know, and I know, I mean, you know, Chris, you've been part of the glas Vegas events. If Balanga can it can display the credentials to fight Cano Alvarez, that's a that's a blockbuster, but you know that there's a long way to go for that fight. When do you expect him to make his debut jin Yeah, beginning at the beginning of June, around that date, um, you know. And and we want we want one of those guys world title challenger, top fifteen guy, you know. And I can't give you any names at the moment because we're only just starting to work towards that with Edgar in the team. Um, but exciting. You know, he's he turned up in a meeting wearing a big mink coat you know, would have changed around his neck. He's friends with all these big rappers, and you know, it brings out a little bit of a bit of celebrity status as well. And I like him. I think he's a character. I think he's what boxing needs. He's definitely a character. I think he's got the style. I think we'll see if he has the substance. We're gonna find out if you get him in those top fifteen fights, top ten fights. If he wins those, it is a monster. I agree with you against Canelo in the following faith, but I want to see, let's see what he's got, you know, in the first couple of deals with his matchroom contract. Um, you were photographed recently with Connor McGregor and you talked about meeting with Conor McGregor, specifically about Katie Taylor. How did that meeting go. It was a wild experience. I mean I'm not in awe of many people, but I'm a fan you know, like I felt like a bit of a fanboy Conor McGregor. You know, we are flown over to Ireland. I've gone down his pub, the Black Forge, right, I've turned up, I've gone to the table over the back. Next thing, I'm trying one of his new black Fool Jarrish stouts. I'm trying one of his proper twelve apple whiskey is. We've got steak being cooked in front of I mean, it was just bundles of energy, you know, and all the things that I've seen from Connor McGregor. I mean, it's almost like the same personality I've seen at the press conferences over the years, and just someone with a lot of passion obviously for Katie Taylor and for Irish sports, not passion for fight sports, passion for his brands. And yeah, it was just it was it was a fun day. It was a really fun day. You know. We talked about the problem with UM, the costs of staging the Katie Taylor fight at Croke Park. We talked about the probability of moving that to an arena and then doing Croke Park in September. We talked about his support for the show's via his brands and sponsorships and stuff like that, and you know, it was it was productive, it was exciting, and you know, I think he's going to be hopefully a help to bring that fight to Croke Park. Unlikely for me, but but certainly for September. So you think Katie Taylor back to back fights in Ireland this year? Yeah, I think maybe not even leave, you know. I mean Katie would always tell you she has another ten fights to go, you know, but right now she is looking at the undisputed champions. She's looking at Amanda Serrano, She's looking at Chancel Cameron, and she's looking at Leastia Bound Gardener. You know, they are three tremendous fights. Um. There are so many great fights to be made in women's boxing right now, and it's so refreshing Christie that you can actually make them. But I know I can make We've already made Taylor Serrano too. I know I could make Taylor Cameron tonight. I could make Taylor bound Gardener tonight, you know. And it's like it's just so refreshing, and they're delivering every time the fights. It's not like we're making a big fight and it's not really performing. Everyone's a cracker, so it's it's a great time. You talked about delivering. Can you make Bomb Gardner MIKHAELA Mayor too. Well, let's just make one thing clear, all right. MICHAELA. Mayer came out recently and said, oh, Eddie Hern can't afford the rematch. I'm not even looking at the rematch like I'm looking at Bound Gardener fighting in Detroit, probably in an undisputed fight. I mean, firstly, she may have to fight Choy if Troy comes out hiding number two, like she wants to fight Chancel Cameron, she wants to fight Katie Taylor. We're not sitting it. We have no problem fighting, MICHAELA. Mayer. But MICHAELA. Meyer does not stop talking about that fight. MICHAELA. Meyer quite frankly, can't actually sleep at night until she gets that rematch. So if you want it that badly, speak to your promotional company and make us an offer. It's not like we don't. It's a voluntary defense for us. It's a big fight. I'm like, I'm open to it. Maybe we'll make an offer, but it's not like you haven't got the money to make an offer. Top ranked paid Alicia Baumgardner and absolute fortune for that first fight, she got more than Mikaela Myer. Right she won, She's now the undisputed champion. You better make sure that next offer he's a lot bigger. You've got Erica Cruz out there as well. I spoke to her very fast week and and she wants to stay at one six, but she says, you would take on bomb Guarden went through almost you almost or something. She fired incredibly with that guy. You messaged me, didn't you like the fight? Say, I'm doing an interview with Cruise. Someone's gotta give her some love. And I'm saying, look, she's like her stock has just gone through the roof. Not a lot of people knew Erica Cruise. Their performance was incredible and listen through the halfway stage, I thought she was winning the fire. I didn't give her many rounds in the back end, but she got cut and you know, she got hurt a little bit. And you know I love Bound Garden against Cruise offense a tremendous fight. Um, but Erica Cruze has a big future thirty wherever it might be. But I'll put her in that mix now of all you know those fighters that are willing to take on anyone, and she's going to be in a big fight. So you've got a big fight this weekend. Leewood defending his full title. Now now that the Santa Cruz stuff is settled against Mauriceo Laura, uh eddie. I believe they say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. You put Mauricio Laura in with your champion or wasn't a champion of the time, but was a champion Josh Warrington. Laura beat him up pretty good, but changed the trajectory of his career. And now here you go again with Mauriceo Laura against Leewood, and Leewood is out there saying he's gonna stand in the middle of the ring and trade with this guy, which doesn't feel like great strategy. I know Lee Woods a different fighter than Josh Warrington, but you know why why make this fight? And what are you expecting in this fight? Well? I mean, firstly, how refreshing is it that you, a champion, choose a voluntary defense and be a near three to one outsider in front of ten thousand home fans. Right? So for me as a promoter, I love fights like this because you know, if I'm when when Lee would beat Michael Connon in fight of the year, knockout of the year, whatever you want to call it. I said to Leewood, time for you to come back to the arena, have a nice, easy voluntary defense. And he said to me, I don't really like easy voluntary defenses because that means not mega money. He said, But also, I like, you know, I don't really fight well against low level opposition. So I said, what about Kiko Martinez. That's a good fight for you, And he said with Ben Davidson, what about Murzio Laura and I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it, you know, And he said to me, we think that's Keiko is almost as dangerous as Laura. We know it's a big money fight, and we feel if we beat Laura off the condom fight, we'll pretty much be number one in the division. And we think it's and I couldn't believe it. And when he got injured at the back end of last year, people felt like he pulled out of the fire to avoid Marizieo Lara. He chose him in the first place, and when he come back, he went the only fight I wanted, Marizell Lara. I mean, I've just been watching Laura pads like this guy is, pound for pound, one of the biggest punchers in boxing. He's twenty four, Leewood thirty four. But Ben Davidson and Lee Wood see something in Maritzella. And there are still Chris unanswered questions about Marizella. I mean, I know he walked through Josh Waryants in great performance, but you know he's been around. It's not like this guy has just emerged. Like you don't just pop up out of nowhere and become a pound for pound great He's always had a reputation of the puncher, and he's vicious and he's faro. But what happens in deep waters? Leewood, I believe he's banking on deep waters and by the way Lee Wood can really punch, really punch, but they both can. It's a tremendous fight. I mean, watch it through your fingers, watch it on the edge. You see bring a spare pair of pants. Like this season, this could be a classic on Saturday Night. I'm fair play to Leewood and fair play to Mario. Laura. You know, this is a fight that could turn him into a stuff. Now. I think I see what would and Ben Davison see and that Laura can hit. But he's also very hittable, like we saw that even in his last fight. He can. He can get caught coming in with some of these kind of rushes he puts on fighters, and if they're smart, they can land something big against him. But it is a tremendous flay. It's it's one I don't expect to ultimately go to a decision. A couple of things before I let you go. You work with Philip Argovitch. There's an IBF eliminator scheduled at the end of the month with Andy Ruiz, and Ruiz is also someone that's been talking about a fight with Deante Wilder. Uh. I don't know what the Wilder's future is if he's available to be worked with with other promoters now as well. Um, how do you think that all shakes out with the IBF eliminator? Is you think Rui is gonna be part of it, is going to get his shot? How do you see the next few weeks playing out there? Yeah, I mean Wilder and Ruis are both with PBC. Well Wilder maybe, I don't know. You know, I've just seen speculation out there of him talking to the promoters and stuff. But I was surprised because I like Ruis against Wilder. I think he's a tremendous fight. But it seems like Andy Ryes wants to move ahead with the Herko each fight because there's been a lot of discussions, negotiations, email, has been a lot of work put in by Tom Brown around that fight and his purse be's next week for that fight. Great fight against Hergovich. So I guess they're going to wait to see what the purse bid is for that fight and decide whether they want to proceed with that fight. The winner's mandatory to who sick at the moment. See what happens with a theory fight, And I don't know what the world is going to do. But you know, I'm not sure either whether Ruis will fight Hergovich, but certainly at the moment they want to progress with the person bid next week. Are you in a position where you know, to make that fight happen you could aggressively bid on that fight. Is that a fate that you could see match room you know, getting in on. Yeah, I mean, obviously it's a good purse split for for Philip Hergovich as well, and and Your is a big name, fire is a very good fighter. I like the fight. You know, it's almost Andy Rees similar style Philip Hergovich to aj stand up European style heavyweight. Good job, you know, decent movement and athleticism. But and Your he is a very good fighter as well. I don't think that fight is going to generate the kind of money for Andy Reis that the Wilder fight would. But at the same time, you know, maybe Layl like that position with the ib F the mandatories do sooner than the WBC one. Clearly there's some um issues with Wilder and PBC because I think that fight would have got made otherwise. It's a good fight, So I'm not too sure, But now we'll be right in the thicker things. Last thing for you, um, I want to get your take on kind of the state of boxing on television, specifically in the US. I mean, your fights in the US are onto Zone. We have seen in the last year Fox Sports effectively getting out of the boxing business. There's a shake up going on at showtime right now that have led to questions about what it's business with boxing will look like in the long term. ESPN still does top rank boxing, but there's a big NBA contract that's coming up that they're gonna have to deal with. There's UFC contracts coming up that they have to deal with. It just seems like boxing in a way is a perilous position when it comes to broadcasting, especially in the United States. How do you see it? How do you see boxing's future in terms of where broadcasting, where it lands, and how it's distributed. I think boxing is a great survivor. You know, there's always broadcasters who want to be involved in the boxing business. Some come and go, some stay around forever. New ones pop up, and it just keeps evolving. Right now, to Zone in America is by far in the best position it's ever been in in terms of subscriber numbers in terms of loyalty from from fans and subscribers, in terms of content, schedule, value for money, everything. We love our position at the moment. We love it, you know. Um, Showtime, I don't know about the rumors. You know. I see the numbers on Showtime and the viewership numbers are dwindling in comparison to what they used to do and the fights they used to do as well. Fox. Yeah, it looks like they're not doing much at the moment. ESPN great platform, top ranked, good promotional company, got some good fighters, you know. I think they're doing solid numbers, and we'll see. We focus on our own business, which is very secure and has great potential in America. Um, we know the Cannello Albarez business. We know, you know the Hispanic fights. Fight fans are extremely passionate and loyal to the service, and we cater for them week in, week out with a fantastic global schedule. So I think, fine, Chris, like, we're always under pressure to make great fights like that, and we have to keep making them. I have no idea what's going to happen with Tank against Ryan Garcia. Hopefully fights like that get made because we need to make sure we make fights like that because it's going to keep the box, the boxing buzz circling. And you know, really boxing is cyclical, but at the same time, you make one big fire and it's the hardest sport in the world. You know, you got a couple of months without a big fight and it's dying. But boxing, in my opinion, is is very healthy. How strong do you feel the Zone's business model is at this point, because you've spoken about the ups and downs of the last five years and you know some of the course corrections you've had to make along the way. Like as you sit here right now in early February, like, how confident are you in that business model succeeding in the US. I mean, it's succeeded already, you know, don't forget it's been around for a number of years now. We came in, we made mistakes, we signed big names, we readjusted. We realized that many fighters in this space are overpaid in terms of their commercial value. We now have the numbers right with the Zone. We now feel like we have the right stable and I have a great sign with Etablinger. We really feel like we have the right reputation and the Twitter space is very aggressive from fight fans. But one thing I stand by is that the value to fight fans on the zone is unrivaled the global schedule and the value of fights continuously. Now you look at the schedule upcoming, you know, it's unbelievable and as a fight fan, I just think it's the most tremendous service. And most mostly, the numbers always have to work. And I don't, you know, I don't own this own country to you know, speculation, and I'm not I'm not designed. I'm matri but I can't speak on her behalf. But one thing I can tell you is the numbers are working, the viewership is working, the subscriber base is where it needs to be, and we feel like we have incredible custom loyalty for five fans right now. And I believe streaming, you know, at base value to fight two fans in general is the future and I feel we're in a tremendous place. Well, Eddie, I'm sure you'll be congratulating somebody on Saturday after with Laura. You're two fighters fighting for hunder twenty six pound title. Appreciate the time, man, and we'll see you back in the us real soon and when we come back. This week's picks brought to you by fan Duel. So this audience knows me as a boxing guy, but you probably also know me as an NBA guy, and I am also an NBA gambling guy. That's why I use FanDuel. Because the midway point of the NBA season is here and now is the perfect time to download FanDuel America's number one sports book because new customers get a no sweat first bet of up to one thousand dollars that's bonus bets back. If your first bet doesn't win, just download the fan Duel sports book app. It's safe, secure, and super easy to use. Then you could bet on everything from the money line to point scores to three's drained. Plus fan Duel even lets you combine your bets for a chance at a bigger payout with the same game parlay. So don't miss the chance to get your no sweat first bet up to one thousand dollars in bonus bets when you go to fan duel dot com slash boxing. That's fan duel dot com slash boxing. Think of me as the boxing guy, but also an NBA guy. FanDuel dot com slash boxing to learn more make every moment more with FanDuel, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. All right, let me start this segment by telling the audience that my picks are going to get better. I had a tough week last week, and I should have known better. I should have known better to think that Rave Vargas could jump up like two weight classes in a couple of years and beat someone like Oshacky Foster. I blew it. I should have known that I was watching that fight on showtime. In the first round, I knew I'd blown it. So I apologize to the audience and to the gamblers that rely on me. I take a lot of care in making these picks, and I will be better. I blew that one. I should have done more research on Ray Vargas. I should have known that despite his height, he was not going to be able to compete with the strength of Oshacky Foster. This week, I'm giving you a great bet. I'm giving you an underdog. You chance to make some money. Lee Wood Mauriceo Laura six pound title fight over in the UK. Leewood is the champion. He is also the underdog plus two ten against Mauricio Laura. Look, I understand why Laura is a beast. He is one of the strongest guys in this division. And it was just a couple of years ago he went to the UK and knocked out Josh Warrington. Nope, changed the trajectory of his career with that knockout. But Lee Wood, I'm telling you he's not Josh Warranted. Leewood is bigger, he's stronger, he's tougher, He's gonna throw more punches back. I like Lee would to win this fight. Take Leewood to win at plus two ten method of victory. I am predicting a Lee would knockout plus three seventy for Leewood to win by knockout. Both these guys have been kid in their careers. Both these guys KOed a long time ago. But I know Lee Wood and his team, I know Ben Davison, his trainer. They wouldn't have taken this fight, which they didn't have to, if they didn't see something in Mauricio lar that was open. Leewood has been very clear he's coming out and he's gonna rumble with this guy. So I think this fight ends by knockout one way or the other, and I'm predicting Lee Wood plus three seventy to win by knock out. This is the week I get back on track, everybody, so take these picks, take them to the bank. These are my picks, brought to you by Vanduel. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Sergio Mora and Eddie Hearn for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple, podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcast, and I'll see you next week.