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Here's Chris Mannix. All right, welcome back to another episode of Boxing with Chris Mannix, part of the Volume Sports podcast network. We've got a great show for you this week. I am in Las Vegas, the site of Canelo Triple G, the trilogy completing fight between two of the biggest stars in boxing that will go down Saturday night at T Mobile Arena live on The Zone pay per view. I have been here all week long. I have talked to the fighters, I have talked to the trainers. I have talked to people that know the fighters and the trainers, and I'm gonna break down this fight from all angles with you. Keith Idek, friend of the program boxing scene dot com. He is going to join me and we're gonna have a pretty robust discussion about this fight and exactly what it means for both fighters and a reminder after the fight. I'm gonna be coming to you with a bonus podcast the Latin Snake himself, Sergio More. He is gonna join me fresh from ringside to talk about what we saw on Saturday night between Canelo and Triple G. All right, Keith Ideck, Boxing seam dot Com. I'm gonna give you an over under how many slices of pizza do you think I've eaten? This week? We're gonna say how many slices of pizza have I eat in which I would it would have been higher. Probably three days so far? Uh, three full days? How many slice do you think? Ten? Wow, you went higher seven seven slices of pizza, including two today. No, I do not want any more because I've brought over. I'm all set with pizza. We are in the MGM Grand Press Center, the home areas. I'm getting heckled by mid level PR staffers from side Fred Sternberg Fred friends always heckling something like that. That's correct. Yes, I am Greg Bishop's intern. We're here at the GIM Grand Press Center, the site of Gnati Golofkin, Cannelo Alvarez. The trilogy completing third fight is Saturday. Can watch that fight onto his own pay per view. All right, so let's just kind of start here Keith with Cannello Golofkin. Like the the buzz you're kind of feeling for this fight compared to the previous two. You're at both those previous two fights. Um, how are you feeling going into this one compared to the other two. Well, it's only Thursday, I guess, but you know, more people are gonna filter into Las Vegas over the next couple of days for Mexican Independence Day week, and I'm sure they're weigh in will be wild tomorrow. Uh but they're The question is more like, is this fight is compelling as the fight itself? Yeah, I mean I think both are less compelling. I think that's probably fair because four years have passed since the last fight. You know, they've separated themselves in a variety of ways. Triple G is obviously forty years old, He's only fought four times in the in the four years, somewhat pandemic related um had COVID himself of course, so uh so there there's less buzz. I mean's just just the way it is. I mean, this fight, in my opinion, based on people that I've spoken to, the pay per view by rate, they're expecting to be lower than for Canelo Alvarez's fight against Caleb Plant last year, which no one would have said if they would have fought three years ago. Of course, Caleb Plant hadn't fought Canello, however, is at that point, but no one would have said that Triple G Canelo three would do less pay per view buys than Caleb Plant Canelo Alvarez, No one would have No one sane would have said that, and now that's being discussed in boxing circles by people who know what they're talking about, because the event is probably happening three years later than it was supposed to have happened or should have happened, and it's eighty five dollars, which is, you know, a pretty high price point, I suppose. But they are still two of the biggest stars in the sport. Canelo is the biggest star in the sport. Certainly in American boxing, he's the biggest star, and the rivalry does mean something. People do want to see the third fight, and I personally think the fight itself is going to be a competitive fight. I don't see just because Triple G is forty years old. I don't see Cannello alvare is coming in there and running him out of the ring or beating him up to the degree where he could potentially stop him. I don't see that happening. I see a maybe not as competitive of a fight as their second fight, but it's still a reasonably competitive fight that Cannelo Alvarez will win by unanimous decisions. So what's the biggest question for you coming into this fight. You've got some variables out there, right, You mentioned the age of Gnati Golofkin, just months removed from turning forty years old. He has been relatively inactive since that second fight against Cannello back in the fall of two thousand eighteen is four and oh. Since then, he's reclaimed his middleweight title. He has unified. Is he that middleweight title? Well, hey, look, I was on record thought he was three and one. I thought he lost the Dervin Schenko fight, but judges gave it to him. He's been on the wrong end of judging as well, so we'll give him, uh that one. But you know, he fought Derrevi and Jenko. Good fight, Steve Rolls, not so much, Camille Zarra Matta, thanks for coming, uh. And then you know riot To Murata, who I think it's safe to say was the weakest of the middleweight champions uh that were out there at the time. So that's the Golfkin side, Canelo side. He's coming down from one seventy five, he's coming off his first loss in almost ten years. Like, what's the biggest question for you? What are you looking for in this fight? Well, the biggest questions for me are how is he going to how is triple G going to compete with Canello now that he's forty years old, because look, the first four plus rounds of the Marata fight, we're not good for Triple G. He got hit a lot, you know. Cannello said the other day when I asked him about this, he said he felt like Triple G. He didn't use the word respect, but he felt like Triple G had felt his power early in the fight, wasn't really all that concerned about it, and maybe was a little lax defensively, which he would not do against Canello. Probably, um So, maybe the performance wasn't quite as bad as it appeared. It was also his first fight in almost seventeen months. You know, he was rusty. You know, he hadn't fought in a long time. He's fighting in his opponent's home country. There are a lot of variables there that could have made it more more difficult for him than people expected. Of course, once he got into a rhythm and he started busting up Marada, you know, he dominated him over the last few rounds, dropped him and stopped him. And I think it was the ninth round, I'm pretty sure. Um So, overall, a good performance. You know, he won by technical knockout. He he was winning on all three score cards, So it wasn't like he was behind in the fight and came back and stopped him or anything. Not not a great performance. But but the questions that we would be asking, quite naturally, Chris, is how is he going to fight at forty years old against an elite level opponent, which Marauda is not. You know, Cannell. No one's gonna confuse Cannello Alvarez for Rioto Marada. So that's that's what we have to find out. Right at forty, can he still be as competitive with someone as good as Canello. Now he's gonna he's gonna use that power jab, which was really effective for him in the second fight. Um, he's gonna throw a lot of punches. You gonna throw more punches than Canelo, even at forty. He's eight years older, but he's going to be more active just because that's not the way Canelo fights for the most part. So is that going to be enough to beat Canelo Alvarez? I don't think so. Um, But look, Cannello is not invincible. We found that out four months ago. Right, he decisively lost that fight. A lot of people thought uh, you know, the scores were entirely too close. I'm sure we'll get into the score parks later. Um, but you know, he he lost nine rounds probably, and it was still one thirteen on all three cards, which I understand why Triple G cannot make a public thing out of this, Like he can't make it seem like it's on his mind. How could it not be on his mind? He won the first fight, had to settle for a split draw. Second fight was very competitive. I thought Canelo one. I understand the perspective of people who might think that Glove can one, but I do think Cannello deserve the nod in that fight. So in my mind, they're one and one, and this is kind of a unofficially a rubber match. But at forty years old and at a hundred and sixty eight pounds for the first time a division in which Canelo Alvarez has succeeded as much, he beat everyone, cleaned out the whole division, beat a whole bunch of undefeated champions. Some people might say those guys are not you know, Callum Smith, Billy Joe Saunders, Caleb Plant are not elite level fighters, but they were world champions. They were undefeated world champions when he beat them, and he cleaned out the division and a very short amount of time. Yeah, the judging is interesting because if you're Golofkin, don't you have to just kind of sell out in this fight, Like you cannot count on getting a decision against Canelo Alvarez in Vegas. I was with you. I forget. I always scored the Beeble fight, but it was at least eight four, maybe nine three in favor of people. The fact that all three judges at one, whereas if one round had flipped it would have been a draw in that fight. That was wild. People deserved to win that fight. But if you look at the history of Cannelo in Vegas, he gets close decisions. Now that's not to say it doesn't deserve to get them. I mean people can argue aris Landy Laura may have beat Canello. I thought that was a close fight, and you know, sometimes it goes the other way. But you go back to even the losses, whether it was the Beavil fight or the atrocious scorecard we saw in the hey Weather fight where c J. Ross had it. Even a fight that Canello clearly lost, doesn't Golofkin, or shouldn't Golofkin have the mindset in this fight where I gotta go for broke. I have to try to knock this guy out because that will probably be the only way I can win. I would say yes, Chris, except that he would then be exposing himself to getting caught with something and being and finding himself in a position that he's never found himself. And we've never seen Ganadi Golofkin quote unquote hurt. I know he's felt particular punches in his career and maybe masked it very well, but we haven't seen him knocked down, beaten up, or anything like that. And if you take those kinds of risks and just throw caution to the wind because of what you're mentioning, which makes sense, but I don't know that he can do and I don't know a speed. That's what I'm saying. I mean, you put yourself in a position where you could get clipped with something that could really get you knocked out, end your career, whatever it might be, because Canelo is just too dangerous to do that. But on the flip side, what you can't go into this fight based on many of the things that you just mentioned thinking that you're going to win on the scorecards, whether that that's obviously unfair and shouldn't exist, but that's the subjective nature of scoring boxing, and for whatever reason, Canelo Alvarez gets the benefit of the doubt on the scorecards virtually every single time. The scorecards that C. J. Ross submitted for the Mayweather fight and Adelaide Bird even more so for the first fight between Triple G and Canelo, are two of the worst scorecards in recent boxing history. Common denominator, obviously is Canelo, and people haven't forgotten any of that. There's no way, for God's what I'm saying, No way Triple G has forgotten about that. Chris. What I'll say this, I don't want to disparage guys who are quality judges like Dave Moretti and Steve Weisfeld, but I can't imagine that Triple G is okay with them scoring the fight this fight. Because they both scored the Bival Canelo fight one fifteen, one thirteen for Canelo. I think we're all in agreement that that's that's just entirely too close. They both scored uh Triple G Canelo a one winner in their rematch not absurd by Monny Stretch. I mean it was a competitive fight. Could have you know, I think Canelo one I was fine with it one thirteen, Moretti did score uh. Weisfeld did not score their first fight, but Moretti scored their first fight oneteen for triple G, which probably makes him say, Okay, well, he's given me a fair shake against Cannelo in the past and and he I'm okay with him. But I don't know, man, like you're all right with the two guys who just scored. Not only not only did they all score uh bival can l one thirteen for bibball. All three of them gave the each of the first four rounds. I think it was two too. I think through four much reasonable worst case scenario three one. But you can if you have no way to give him. Look, there's just no way that he lost all four rounds and they were in complete agreement on that. So it's almost like, I don't know what to make of that when you have not on four judges in complete agreement on four rounds that clearly should not have been scored that way. Like that to me, he's like, and I hate saying this. Because I've said many times and I think you'd agree. I think Steve Wisfeld is if he is one, if not the best judge in all the boxing. He is, in my opinion, the gold standard. Dave already has been around for a while, has been pretty consistent in terms of high level. David Sutherland less so much, less much, But I think he's fine as a judge. It's just weird, like whatever Cannelo Alpharez gets in the ring, these judges seemed to see something with what he's doing that his opponents are not. It's interesting, Chris, because I'm not casting any aspersions on anyone, because I know Steve Weisefeld personally like judges or Jersey Jersey guys are you know whatever, not as much pizza as you like. Like the fact that you've eaten more than twice as much since you've been here and since I've been here is a no one would have been on that probably right, I've had three slices of pizza since I've been um But anyway, uh, you know, so it's not I understand from the outside looking in, people think it's corruption and people are greasing people's palms and you know, paying people under the that's not quite how that works. We're not We're not naive either of us. Obviously, we're very skeptical people in general because of what we do for a living. But I don't think that's what you know. I would like to know the actual answer because it just because sometimes you could just be seated on a different side of the ring as someone and have a different perspective of what's going on because you don't have the benefit of all you know, the best television angles or whatever. You get your angle, and if it's you don't see what's happening. You don't see what's happening because the guy's back is to you or whatever the case might be. Um, but it's a very subjective science. You know. People prefer usually prefer aggression, effective aggression anyway. Um, but Canelo just doesn't throw a lot of punches like sometimes and you and I don't get it something you know, but what you know what I like though? When this happened to the aj fight, right did who is it? Was it? Don Trella, Glen Felton, who's the judge that one? Are the judges that scored it for Joshua Glen Felman, Glen Felmon right, who was a good judge, very good judge. Somebody caught up to him. Somebody tracked him down after that fight and asked the the question. I would love to see judges be more accountable and be available for questions, you know, after that. Just if you're going to score a certain way in a high profile situation where there's so much money on the line, there should be some transparency there. I think I agree with you. But the reason why judges don't speak, as you well know, Chris, is there there are mandates from the commissions that they not speak because they don't want to put guys in pressure. They're not used to dealing with reporters. Just send the referee out there. Though, like Jersey will Well, we saw how that went. Didn't go well? Okay? I mean you know again, you're talking about the Gary Russell on the Gary Russell undercard, and those are some of the most bizarre explanations I've ever heard. But like I want that. I kind of like if you if you're not confident enough to do this, it's great for the theater of boxing, it's not great for you know, having faith in commission that the referee who you're speaking about, was looking at the replay on a gig a screen that's bigger than this room, and was literally saying that what everyone else saw happened didn't happen. So you put that guy in a position where now people think he's a clown. Like, no, now people don't take him. It was absurd what he was saying, Like, I couldn't believe he was. I was like, but that's why they don't want to put people in positions that they're not accustomed to being. You don't want a guy to say the wrong thing or maybe you know, if they feel like they're being accused of something, they might react in a negative way and they just how about this? Then? How about this? Is the NBA? You can't talk to referees, right, you just walk up to X referee and ask questions. What you can do, though, is afterwards there is a pool reporter, and I think there's no other sports as well, but you have one reporter designated to go into a referees locker room and ask them about something like like a controversial call of some sort or someone being abjected or something like what did you, you know, say for Glenn Felton, for example, you walk go in there and you say a lot of people have to score. Why the other way? What were you seeing? Just two or three questions? And let that be the end of I think grown men or women are able to handle that. Like I I'd like to believe they could handle that. And and you would like to see accountability from people who were deciding people's careers that the amounts of the amounts of money people are making end. Now, let's not ignore the fact that that gambling has become such a factor in every professional support, including boxing. Like I wouldn't bet on boxing if I were a fan, because you know, there are too many variables that could a guy wins nine rounds and suddenly he loses the fight and you lose all this It's crazy a lot of money. When Paul Williams beat Arioslandy Laura that night, Jersey may he rest in peace. That was I remember Dan Goose and coming there to ringside and being a fiasco at ringside. But um, but yeah, I mean you would like to see more accountability. That's a that's a fair point, Chris. But I just think they just don't want to put guys in positions that they're not accustomed to. And but you know, again, when people are paying their hard earned money, and you know for pay per view, whether they're gambling on the fight, paying tickets, there should be more accountability. I think that's some kinds definitely a fair way to look at it, all right with it? When it comes to questions, to go back to the original topic, the biggest question I have is how does golof can handle the body attack because in the second fight against Canelo, but numbers reflected he went to the body and he was effective. Since then, cannell our, Golofkin has looked vulnerable to big body shots, whether it was derev and Schenko or hurt him in that fight with body shots. Maratta, you alluded to early on that. I think it was the third round he had Golofkin with a big shot to the body. Gnati stepped back, took a deep breath, and uh continued on. But I had a chance to ask Golofkin and Jonathan Banks this week about concern about that. How do they adjust to that? And they were pretty dismissive of Ganattis vulnerability there. Maybe they're just saying that to me, Maybe they have a plan to protect the midsection, do something differently to make sure you don't get beat up. But if they don't, I think that's a tactical mistake. I think Canello is gonna zero in on that midsection. He's gonna target it, he's gonna throw bombs at it. And look we we don't. I think neither one of us believe Ganatti is getting stopped with a headshot, like he's just too strong and uh got too good at chin. But you land enough body shots on a guy that hasn't already weakened the mid section, that's gonna be a problem for him. So that to me is a big the biggest question in the rank. How does Ganati hold up to those body attacks? You know the old boxing adages. Chrystal One likes it to the body, of course, and as you it never forgets Sergio tells about all the times, like when you once you get hurt there, it never goes away from a psychological standpoint also, so, um, well, he better do something. I hope, I hope after eight or nine weeks in training camp they devise some sort of strategy to prevent that happening, because, as you said, that's the only path to Canelo winning by stoppage. I think because as you he's got a granite chin, and he and we've taken him, see we've seen him take some bombs and fights where you're like, holy well, how is he walking through this? And he and he always has against pretty big punchers, you know, including Canelo. So um, yeah, they I hope they have some strategy devised to do it because otherwise, I mean, it could be a real problem for him. You know. Banks said to me, He's like, we don't see it as I think he's had a risk factor all right. It feels risky to me. It feels like that's where you're going to get hit and if you're not protecting it. I mean, yeah, you know, you know, it's been anyone you can knocked out. But I can still hear the Matthew maclickbody shot ringing in my ear at Foxwood's that time, what eight nine years ago? Right? But look, Banks is a cerebral guy. I'm sure they've dotted all their eyes and crossed all their teas and maybe they're just not gonna They're not gonna tell us maybe exactly what we asked the direct questions, dare they not do that. Um. I asked Sergio this week, can ask you the same question. Who needs this fight more? Who is this fight more important to? Uh? Cannello, You would have to say just in although he won the second fight, and he's the only one officially who has won one of the fights, he's got more to lose because if glove Can loses, well, he's supposed to. Cannello is at least a five to one favorite according to most of the reputable sports books right now. Maybe that'll change a little bit, will fluctuate a little bit before the fight, but those are pretty wide odds for two guys who have been so completely competitive in their first two fights. So he's supposed to. He's forty, he's fighting at a hundred and sixty eight pounds for the first time. A lot of people think he lost the Derevian Chanco fights, you know, since the last time he fought Canelo Um. There are a lot of factors working against Triple G. So people, I think the public perception is is that he's going to lose this fight. So if he loses, he'll have made you know, more than twenty million dollars and gant and guarantee and Uh, you know, gotten the third the third fight that he always wanted, the fight that he was promised when he signed with the Zone, that it's finally happening three and a half years after he signed that contract. So he's getting what he wants. But Canelo, if he loses this fight, um, he'll have lost to a forty year old guy who's fighting at a hundred and sixty eight pounds for the first time, who probably lost the Derevian Chanco two and a half whatever it was three years ago, two years ago, um, three, three years ago. Um, So he's got more and and then he'll have lost for the first time. He'll have lost back to back fights. He's never been in that position before. So he would then go from being the consensus pound for pound king of boxing to having lost back to back fights to Dmitri Bivall, who was around I think he was a four to one favorite over Bivall too, which was clearly too wide. But then he have lost back to back fights to Bivall into Glovekin, who he was heavily favorite to beat. Uh where does he go from there? Because then no one wants to seem fight biva All again? Right, he would. Honestly, if you had to make a comparison, he would kind of enter Anthony Joshua territory where it's like you're a big star, but you might have to rebuild a little bit. You might be talking about you taking lesser fight before going into maybe a fourth fight with the Only thing that I would say, uh in comparing Cannello to Joshua, is Cannello was accomplished a lot more, you know. I mean, Anthony Joshua was an enormous star. I'm not saying he isn't. But if you compare their resumes, they're kind of resumes. I'm more like where they go after back to back losses. Like if we'll get to this, but if the Joshua Fury fight doesn't happen, which I still don't believe, um, you'll probably see Joshua fighting a lower level guy in December January. It's sort of like a rebuilding stage of his career as he bounces back most two losses. I feel like you put it this way. In Cannell's next fight, I wouldn't expect it to be a killer. I wouldn't expect Golofkin Part four. I wouldn't expect evil part two. I wouldn't expect one of the top guys at eight. I would expect something a little lower. You disagree, well, I know he certainly if he loses the Glovekin, that's not going to sit well with him, and he would do everything in his power to try to get the fourth fight right away. I just think from a psychological standpoint. But glove And would suddenly be in the driver's seat for the first time. He's never had the leverage in this situation, and he might just pull a Marcus. I'm not saying he's gonnaknock Canello out obviously, but certainly not knocked him unconscious. But he would finally have the power and he might say, well, I'm not going to fight him again. I don't need to. I'll go fight because he said, Look, what he said yesterday to us was that this is his last fight with his own. Now he signed a six fight contract with his own. This is only the fifth fight, he said emphatically yesterday, this is my last fight with his own. If that is true. Okay, So if so, if that's true, I could easily see him if he were to win the fight, and he says, I this guy, I'm not doing this again. He can he can go eat that for the rest of his life. That I beat him in the left drive Canello crazy? Correct? All right? So then I could see him dropping back down the middle weight and then going, you know, give an al haim and a call, say you want to make this Charlo fight. Let's go make this Charlo fight, and then he you know, works come up with a lot of money to me. And I don't think Charlo would do that next, even if even if Glove can one on Saturday night and wanted to do that next, because Charlo hasn't fought in a very long time, and it certainly doesn't seem based on what I was told that this Celeski fight is going to be rescheduled anytime soon, so he would have to get some kind of fight in between before that would happen. But the point is is that Golovkin would have many more options, but particularly because he owns if you count the ib OH, he he owns three middleweight titles, and he could go fight Charlo in a big fight. Well, Andreid is not the middleweight champion, not that he would. He They've made it clear they want they don't want I'm sorry, sorry I mentioned the A word on this podcast. I don't get you on Andreid rabbit hole. But um, but there are options for him, as I guess what I'm saying. He and he would be the fully unified super middleweight champion. So if he were, if he were comfortable at that weight, well, he could fight a multitude of super middleways he could fight. He could call Al Hayman and go fight galb Plant. If Plant winds up beating uh Durrell and his next fight David Benavite, that's a much riskier fight, I think for for Glofkin, but that's certainly available to him. I agree that there's a lot at stake for Canelo, but I have a bit of a different take on Gallofkin because I've been reading a lot and hearing a lot this week about no matter what happens in this fight, Ganadi Golofkin is gonna walk into the Hall of Fame on the first ballot. I kind of sort of shrug a little bit at that, because, look, he's got a great record. Um, he is undoubtedly one of the most entertaining fighters of this generation. But when I look at his resume, I see Daniel Jacobs, I see David Lemieux, I see Sergei Derevinschenko. I don't see a depth of quality wins, and I think that to me, that is a variable. When you start talking about fighters and there candidacy for the Hall of Fame, I just I I need this. I want to see three, four, five quality high level wins. Now, I will acknowledge readily that for six years he chased all the top guys, longer like Chase Felix Stern before he came to the US. He's been chasing the top guys forever. Sergery and Martinez avoided him, Miguel Codo avoided him. Cannello, even for a couple of years longer than people wanted, didn't want to fight him, or at least Oscar Deltoy at that time didn't want Canello fighting Golofkin. But in the last three years he has had opportunities to burnish his resume. He could have fought Andreid, he could have fought Charlo, He could have fought him Gia, which would have been a reasonably high level win. He didn't. Look it's a business. He clearly made the right decision because he's gonna get paid an excess of twenty million dollars probably for for this fight. But there's a consequence for that, and that's you know, it gets taken into account that when Golof can have the opportunity to fight all the big fights he was clamoring for early, he didn't do it. And that that to me, that that that is going to be a factor when Hall of Fame consideration comes around. So this is a hot take from Chris Mannix that Gnadi Glovkin is not a first balltot Hall of Fame. Well again, as you know, because the Hall of Fame is ridiculous. This is not the baseball Hall of Fame, by the way, No it's not. It's the Hall of Fame where three guys get in every year no matter what. So you know, if there's a year where there's no top guys, Mo, Larry and Curly are getting in. Um shout out by the way to Ivan called aroun I' gonna keep gooting for you every year until you get in. Uhds I love Ivan called her own like he was great back in the day. He's got it. Actually not to go down a rabbit hole, but he's kind of a bar from me, like you gotta be better. Ivan called her own to get into the Hall of Fame on my ballot. Guy that was for six years like the best little man in all of boxing. So but that that to me? Is it? Like with with the understanding the boxing Hall of Fame is goofy in that way, Like do I look at Golofka as as ballot Hall of Famer? I don't know. I I don't see the quality wins on the recipal. Here's what I would say. I think he's a first ballot Hall of Famer one because the standards are simply lower for the boxing Hall of Fame than they are, particularly for the baseball Hall of Fame. Right, I mean that's the probably the most stringent And would you not argue the best like I think base you get in consistent, you know, because of the right with obviously, but like I like it, every year, you have to get seventy on the phone. Um, it's got to be a consensus that you get in. He he does not officially have a win against the guy who was the pound for pound king, but he but he won. I think most people would agree that he won the first fight the driving Chanko. Now, look, driving Chanko has lost a lot of fights against top level guys in the last couple of years, but he's a top level middleweight and that dog fight, to me was the fight of the year in two thousand nineteen. He did win the fight officially. Um, well, it's but another one where it's like, you know I had, I think I had when it was a close fight, and and look, I know people don't want to hear excuses, and I'm not trying to make an excuse for Glovegin. Their contention is that he was sick the whole fight week. Maybe he might not even should have thought. I've heard that like gabriel Otto, he was sick, like I said, And people don't want to hear excuses. Fighters go into fights injured all the time and have many things going on in their heads that they never tell people about, you know, family problems or whatever. So I understand that. But but but the Reverend Chanco win, which is officially a win as a good win in my opinion, Um, you know, two very close back and forth fights with an elite, elite level fighter who became the pound for pound king. Um, he was he had some version of a middleweight title for a very long time. Um. So, I, for whatever it's worth, I think he's a first ballot Hall of Famer. But um would it if he beats Canello convincingly on Saturday? Of course, of course and he becomes undisputed champi at and of course you know that would strengthen his legacy. There's no denying that, um. But you do make a good point about, you know, having because I was flat out told that. They basically told that. His people told his own we're not fighting Demetrius Andrew stop asking us about that. Is that is actually almost close to verbatim, I believe, so if I'm not mistaken, And that's unfortunate for Andreid because he's never really gotten the type of opportunities that we would have liked to have seen him received over the last few years. But so, yeah, so he didn't fight him. I'm not going to say that him not fighting Charlo is his fault necessarily. I mean, no, no, it's not. Although I Charlo would have been the one where if you were going to get kind of a cross promotional deal done, I feel like Hayman would have been more open to that to get him in with Coaloftin to get that team making opportunity. I feel like that was was doable and and look, Mangia was doable. That that one is the most surprising because Mangia, like Magee, is beatable. He's really good when gotta fight something, conversation, He's gonna go forever. Didn't kind of the second tier guys. But I just you know, I I guess in a way, I would never hold the first like six seven years of gallopkins us career against him because he tried. Tom Laffer tried, they were HBO tried, They were doing everything they can to get the top guys in the ring with him. All of them passed. But I have to I kind of believe the last few years when he was making business decisions have to be taken into account. Like he all the fights he was begging for, they were there, you know, Charlo, Andreid Mongia, I don't know who else is out there. He chose not to do him. He could have gotten out of the zero Metta mandatory by fighting Andred if you wanted to, you can do a unification fight that would have been makable. You know. It's interesting, Chris, because I think what he was really doing there, and he obviously has never said this to me, but I think what he was doing there was he was guaranteed a certain amount of money for the zero Meta fight, which he did not get. It was renegotiated and he still got a lot of money for fighting Camille Zaromata in front of no one because it was in the heart of the pandemic and every thing, and he was his mandatur. But I think he was in that case he was trying to prove a point to the Zone because he wasn't getting He thought he would have gotten the Canelo fight at that point, which was what he was promised when he signed this contract with the Zone. So I think there was a little back and forth there between them where he where he demanded the Zara Metta fight because he felt like he wasn't being treated fairly with Canelo. Now that not is not necessarily the Zone's fault. They were told something by a Golden Boy that was not true. So they were operating under the premise that that they could deliver Canelo and that they would make this fight, which obviously didn't happen, and then he separated from Golden Boy, and you know, all the things that we know have happened. But just to clear one thing up, I'm pretty sure you know this as well. If the pandemic had not happened, they were going to fight in the fall, like that was gonna happen. The way it was set up was glaf was gonna fight Zara Metta in March, Canelo was gonna fight I believe Saunders in May, and the two were gonna meet in September. That as far as I understand, that was all but agreed to their Canello would come off his issues with Golofkin at that time and he was going to fight him back then. So you know, for whatever it's worth, that fight was going to happen in September. Yeah, And there was a point, like I said that Golovkin was the one, so I'm not gonna fight Canelo. So then people are saying, well you want the fighter, you don't. And but I do think there was something internally going on between him and his own and that's more what that was about than him not actually wanting to fight Cannello, because of course he wants to fight Conelli wants to avenge his only loss and make more money. He's clearly going to make more money on Saturday Night than he made fighting any of the other guys he's fought since he fought Canello the last time. No question, smart business decision. But you know when when given the opportunity to fight these top guys, he chose not to, And I just I just that that counts for me as a variable in all this last thing on Golofkin. What do you make of kind of this sort of heal turn he's made in recent years there become a little more surly, you know, still affable at times, but like you know, it just feels like he's a little bit of a different guy. In the last couple of years. He's surly towards Canelo. I don't. I don't sense that he's really surly towards other people. I got, well, he was kind of surly toward competres. But but but uh, beyond beyond that, I mean, I don't, I don't really see him. It's interesting in that if Cannello continues to say the reason that he doesn't like Kannadie Glovecan more than anything is because he thinks he's a phony, that he portrays this public persona of being this nice guy and you know, smiling all the time, and you know Mexican style and what all the things that he's been parting for the last you know, ten or twelve years or whatever it is. Um so he thinks he's a phony and that he's not really a good guy. I don't know. I mean, I don't spend a lot of time around Ganadi Glovecan other than fight weeks and everything. I have no reason to believe he's a bad guy per se. But um uh, but what he's but he's promoting the fights too, right, It's it's general the positive drug test stuff like in fairness, why shouldn't he Because the bottom line is, once you have that stain on your record, it doesn't go away. And some people are willing to forget it and some people aren't. And if I'm risking my life against this guy three times, I'm not forgetting it. And he knows. The other thing is he knows it gets under his skin, so he's going to continue to do it because he knows he's pissing him off. So if you know you can get a rise out of someone like that, and you and intensely dislike that person, why wouldn't you do it in fairness to Glovekan like he was. Whatever the excuses, Mexican street meat, whatever, whatever they've come up with. Um, the bottom line is he failed to drug tests before he was supposed to fight Gnadie Glovekan the second time. That's indisputable. And if I'm Gonnadie Glovekan, I'm not letting that go. And he's most certainly not at this point. Um, and it's certainly fair play by him. Alright, couple of the things I want to hit you with before we go. ESPN on Thursday reporting that turns Crawford Errol Spence materially agree two terms on a deal. This has been something that UH has been reported on for over a month now. At this point, they're getting closer, getting closer, getting closer. Um, should we get excited at this point for November nine? Spence against Crawford. UM? Do you believe we're at that proverbial five yard line? I think they're going to fight November nine. I've thought that all along. I just think that there's too much money at stake for both guys. Uh. The alternatives or Crawford are not great. The alternatives for Spence are not what what are going to be palatable for the public, but they're better than what Crawford's options are the right and Thurman is a known fighter and people and people have wanted to see them fight for a number of years. Although Thurman's deteriorated a little bit um so he has more options than Crawford. So I just always kind of thought that Crawford eventually is just going to whatever. Whenever they get to the point where it's like either now or never, he's going to accept the deal, just because even if he has to take less of a percentage or take less of a guarantee or whatever, you know, all the things that have been hanging up the deal, you know, the rematch percentages, all of that stuff, Right, Like, he would eventually just accept what he had to accept one because he thinks he's gonna beat Errol Spence. Of course too, because he's gonna make less than half a third to fight anyone else. And then who is he fighting all the well, that's the thing. All the rest of the welterweights relevant welter rates for the most part or with PBC. Now Boots Ennis is not with PBC, but Terrence Crawford is not gonna fight Boots Ennis if he's not going to fight ERL. Spence Jr. So the alternative probably is Virgil Ortiz, who is his mandatory. Um, that's a tough I'm not saying Crawford a lot less money, which is Crawford in my opinion if he if he fought Virgil Ortiz tomorrow, he would win. But it's a dangerous fight and for a lot less money. So eventually he's just gonna have He doesn't like the fact and doesn't trust the fact that this is a PBC event basically, and he's not a PBC guy. He came from top rank and now he's a free agent. He's mistrustful of a lot of things and that's been part of the negotiations as well, like worrying about all the things, uh about every little detail about fight week, making sure everything is on point because he's just mistrustful. I don't know if you think someone's gonna poise as water or what exactly, but there's a lot of things going on behind the scenes that have been stumbling up. He's guy right from the beginning. I'm not saying All's gonna do anything, but but but but his Uh, hesitation is understandable because he's not one of their guys. They're gonna, you know, they're gonna cater to Spence more than they're gonna cater to him, so he wants to be you know, compensated financially for that. Um. But I do think eventually they're going to get to the finish line here. It's my understanding that they're not there yet exactly, um, but that they will get there. The fight is going to happen November nineteenth, which is what kind of what I thought all along, because some people you know on Twitter and all, you know, not reporters necessarily, but just people, well it's too late for then why is it too late? It's it's September. It you want more than two months, and you don't need to promote it all that much. And if the days, as you know, the days of like multi city press tours are gone, you only do that, right it happens infrequently. You don't even need to do them necessarily. They have they have time to train for two full months for the fight, and I would have to believe that both of them are in some semblance of training now thinking that the fight is going to happen, so that's not really an issue. They're gonna do one press conference. They're not going to do a multi city like you just said though. Those days are long gone. Um, so there's no real Like if if they announced the fight ten days from now, well, are people are not going to buy the fight because it wasn't announced until September you need. I mean, if it was six weeks, I'd say, all right, maybe, but it's twelve at this time or whatever it is, and there is more than enough time. I wonder what network it winds up on. I mean Showtime and Fox are still the PPC. When this all was kind of breaking down, Keith, one thing that popped into my mind was like, I wonder if they'd push it to like February, because Fox is a super Bowl this year, and if they did with Fox, you could use that platform to promote it. But it does sound like the nineteenth is what they're timeeting, and in terms of which network winds up distributing it, I would be surprised if it weren't Showtime, just because all of the PBC inventory has been shifted to Showtime. Foxes for all intents and purposes out of boxing except doing the occasional pay per view. And this isn't just any old pay per view, this is the payer non heavyweight pay per view and boxing. I thought that too, But like Spence, I think all of his pay per views have been Fox or No the but the previous Danny Garcia was FOXOX. But but like if you don't, unless Al Hayman is trying now, look, you're gonna go where you get the better deal. I understand that. At the same time, you know, he has a much uh more profitable, better working relationship with Showtime now than he has with Fox. It looks like Fox is getting out of boxing. It looks like they're interested in doing the occasional pay per view that shouldn't be a pay per view, like Luis right, doesn't cost them much. They're not committing any money to boxing. So unless he's trying to unless Hayman, we're trying to not trying to get into the head of Al Hayman, because I who you know, he's he's That would be a good story right now. But I'm saying, I mean, he knows obviously, he knows how to move chess pieces and all and does all these things behind closed doors. But um, unless he's trying to salvage this relationship with Fox, which to my understanding is pretty much unsalvageable in that they're not going to do another multi fight contract with PBC. Then I don't understand why it wouldn't be on Showtime because I think Showtime, with its you know, with its reach with CBS and everything, can offer most of what Fox, if not all of what foxes uh providing from a promotional standpoint, because look what they did with the Caleb Plant fight with Canelo, right they they plastered it all over college football and NFL, and it did you know, somewhere in the neighborhood of eight hundred thousand buys and who who what mainstream sports fan knows? Which mainstream sports fan knows who Caleb Plant is? I mean, come on, you know, so they'll do. I do think there's a you know, a lower ceiling than eight hundred thousand for as as big of a fight as it is in boxing circles, there is a lower ceiling at eight hundred thousand for for Spence and Crawford. I agree with that that much. I did read you read the story this week about Showtime potentially getting lumped in with paramount. This is not this is a full disclosure of paramount employee all that you know. So but uh nonsense? Is it just complete nonsense wall st journal Well, you know the thing is, I think they got tripped up on there were there were some long range talks about they're they're doing deals with particular providers, like their deal is up and everything, And there was something just kind of mentioned in passing that you know, eventually sometime down the road maybe something like that could have like it was, it's not, it's nothing concrete. Now. Look, I'm no high level paramount executive by any stretch. I'm not trying to make it like I'm in these uh in on these decisions or anything is obviously I'm a I'm a boxing writer, for God's sake. What the moment cares? What I think? Probably, But but why would if Showtime has roughly thirty million subscribers, why would you disband it? It makes no sense. They they also produce some for the way, it was explained to me somewhere in the neighborhood of two billion dollars and profits for the company every year. Why would you get rid of that? It's insane. Cord Cutter's baby's going. I mean, but what I would understand it if in in this is not a television we're not the television insiders now. But the point is if they at some point made Showtime and Paramount plus the stream the same streaming service, you know, if they if available for one price, I could see that happening eventually. But now you're you're still getting to subscriptions and bundling it into one, and you're still making more money. So I don't really know why you would get rid of and Showtimes a pretty long established brand. I mean, it's you know, they've been in boxing for thirty five thirty whatever, thirty seven years or what ever. So not that boxing is the highest priority of Paramount Global, but but I've done it well for for many years. So yeah, that didn't didn't make a lot of sense to me at the time why they would do that. But the way it was explained to me by people who know much more from internally in the company, nonsense, Like it's just dead wrong. All right on that I was speaking of nonsense. Uh. Eddie Hern is here this week and he's getting asked a lot about Tyson Fury versus Anthony Joshua so Anthony Joshua was and Eddie Hearn's treatment of the Fury quote offer. It reminds me a lot for people that watch Seinfeld of when George Costanza told Susan Ross's parents he had a house in the Hamptons and they went to go visit him. Right, so bear with him here, bear with me. So they says, I got a house and said we'll go, and he says, and he starts telling all these lies as he's driving to the happens that he parks the car and says, we gotta walk this far. It's just it feels like Eddie in a j are trying to call the bluff of Tyson Fury and Frank Warrant like it's it can't be as simple as a fight like this getting done for it can't. I mean, we both remember, we both covered how complicated the deal that was going to be in the Middle East was for Joshua versus Fury. I mean, Eddie hern agonized over that deal. Um, I just can't believe it's as simple as Principally Stadium in Cardiff December three split on the part of Tyson Fury, with the winner having the option of reversing it and getting a difference. I just I just don't believe it. I don't know how you feel about this, but I just don't believe that that fight is gonna happen. Well, first, as a huge Seinfeld fan, love the Costanza reference. I've got two silariums. Yeah, exactly, And if you want to turn it up a notch, baby, exactly. Um, it seems like entirely too complicated of a deal to put together in a relatively short amount of time. December three is not that far away. Um, I don't see it. And I do agree with you in some sense, they're calling their bluff, okay, okay, all right? Well, and if you're if you're, why would you say no to it? I mean you're you've lost back to back fights decisively to the other. Like I kind of feel the different way, Like it's like Joshua is now, like I don't know if he's gonna stick with Robert Garcia, stick with Aga Fernaniz to go with a different direction. But it feels like Joshua needs to not rebuild over the course of multiple years. But how would you take a nice easy whatever in December? How would you fight Dillion White in the first quarter of next year, and then I know Tyson Fury is the equivalent of boxing a d D. So let him fight like Derek Sora in December if he wants to get a paid And now I'm gonna I'm gonna stop you on that because Derek Justa for beating Kubra pool have better not get a title shot. I'm gonna have to put my foot down on that one. Not that anyone's listening to me exactly, but look, God bless Derek just Sor. He's entertaining and and he's some. But let's a great press conference. Great, Yeah, I'm gonna flip some tables and do some crazy stuff. But at the same time, lets everyone calm down. He he beat Kubra Pulev, who's not good and is forty plus years old. I don't know how that warrants getting a shot at the at the you know, one of the two heavyweight champions anyway. Um, what a lot of money in that fight to six to one by decision cash right there, like fail it. It's in an NBA Summer League watching that with a couple of guys press row. That was a blast. Um, you're just trying to promote your your your gambling picks on. Here's what you're doing. But but I don't see the fight coming together in that short of time. There's too many complications. There's two you know, I understand what you're saying about Joshua, But I've been hearing about Joshua, you know, fine tuning things, rebuilding, blah blah blah since he got knocked out by Andy Ruiz. Maybe he just is what he is. You could bring in trainers from all over the world. He's just going to fight the way that he fights. And maybe he realizes that to some extent, you know, maybe he's like, well, I could make an enormous amount of money for what would even though he's lost back to back fights to us, it would still be the biggest fight in British boxing history. Huge a long shot right by a country mile right, So, uh, why wouldn't he do it? You know, he's lost back to back fights. Maybe he doesn't want to. And maybe if you're Joshua, you've made so much money, um, you feel like, do I really want to go go to training camp and get motivated? Can I get motivated for fighting? Whatever? Guys, you're you know, whoever, it might be Otto, Volleen or whoever. And he's not gonna fight Southball probably But but my I'm not disparaging out of autobion challenges. Shout out to his PR people keep but what my point is, like a non champion, a guy who's not a star, how is he going to get up for those kinds of fights? So maybe he just feels like he he feels he can beat Fury. He's not looking at it like he's going to go in there and lose. I I think Fury beats Joshua, but it's an enormous event, and maybe he just doesn't want to waste time taking, you know, be in C level opponents because he won't be able to get up for them. And maybe he doesn't want to fight that much longer either. I mean, he's he's thirty two now, right, thirty two, He's gonna be thirty three, so maybe something. But um, he's getting a little older and he's made so much money he he doesn't have to fight anymore. So maybe, you know, from that perspective, maybe he would want to do it. But it's got that massive New dizone deal that is encompassing multiple fights. At least that's gonna pay him a lot of money. Well, that was a good business. He's still he's still not for not On mean for him, for him, it was well, I mean he still does pay per view buys. I'll give him that. Like, he'll still he could fight anybody and still draw crowd. He's still I would argue he's as popular as Fury in the UK is no. Yeah, and and and like you said about Cornello Canello before, he's like Joshua in that sense, Like if he were to lose to Glufkin on Saturday, he's still a superstar. He still has an entire country behind him and a lot of people in the US. So yeah, there's no doubt about that. We have to see what he decides to do if that fight comes together. But more than anything else, I think we both agree, it's just it feels like it's it's happening too quickly. Like I'd love to believe that you could put together a fight of that magnitude as quickly as it seems to be coming together. I just don't believe that's possible. Also, Chris, you know, Tyson Fear is very entertaining. He's been great for boxing in many ways, but he goes on there every day and says something different. So like there's some days he's not fighting anymore, so challenging. He's challenging frances Nan, he's retiring, He's traveling to Iceland to challenge the mountain every week. It's something else, right, Yes, so he fights the mountain. I'll go to that. I'm all. I'm all in for Tyson theory versus the Mountain. Keith. Appreciate your time as pizza and next, lice on me when we come back. This week's picks brought to you by fan duel Well. Football season is underway, so now is the perfect time to download FanDuel America's number one sports book because right now new customers getting no sweat first bet up to one thousand dollars. That's free bets back. If your first bet doesn't win, just sign up with the promo code boxing now. I'll be the first to admit I am not a massive gambler, but I am a pretty big New England Patriots fan as someone from Boston. Even though the Pats ruggled in Week one, I'm still gonna ride or die with them, and when I'm watching them, I'm gonna gamble and I'm gonna bet on them, and I'm gonna use fan Duel to get that done. So just sign up with the promo code Boxing. You're no sweat first bet Fan Duels all your favorite bets from the money line to point spreads, two player props. You can combine your bets for a chance at a bigger payout with the same game parlay. With live betting, you'll get updated odds on games that have already started. The app is safe, secure, and super easy to use. Get paid your winnings fast. So sign up today with promo Code Boxing for your no sweat first bet. Make every moment more this season with fan Duel, the official sports book partner of the NFL. Alright time now for this week's picks, brought to you by our friends over at fan Duel. If you're not betting with fan Duel, you are doing it incorrectly. We are here in Las Vegas for the big One. Canelo Alvarez, Ganadi, Gilofkin Trilogy come pleading, super middleweight championship, undisputed status on the line. This is as big as it gets in boxing Right now, and right now, Canelo Alvarez is a big favorite minus five fifty according to FanDuel Gardi Golofkin plus four ten. I believe Alvarez wins. I know he's coming off a loss to Dmitri Bevil, but talking to Canelo this week, it feels like he was more focused for this training camp than he was for Bevil. Wasn't playing as much golf over the last few months, and it's really locked in on getting a clear win against his long time rival. So take Conelo Alvarez to win this fight at minus five fifty. Load up on it. He's gonna win. I believe it now. How he wins this week can make a little bit of money. Alvarez by decision is minus one ten. That's the bet that I, like a lot of people are saying, Canello Alvarez gonna go for a knockout, gonna be the first guy to stop Gnarti Golofkin, And maybe he will be. But Gnati Golofkin, even at at has a granted chin and has it's a cliche, but has that heart of a champion. I just don't believe the Golofkin is going to get stopped in what could be his final significant fight. So I'm taking Canello to win, and I'm taking him to win by points. I think this fight is a little more clear on the scorecards than the previous two fights have been. So Canella win, Cannella win by points. Those are my picks, brought to you by FanDuel. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Keith Idek for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate review this podcast on Apple, podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcast, and I will see you Saturday night after the fight between Canelo and Triple G for a special bonus podcast