Boxing with Chris MannixBoxing with Chris Mannix
Chris Mannix will bring fans closer to the sport and its personalities with in-depth conversations with the top names in boxing.
Boxing with Chris Mannix - Eddie Hearn32:02
Boxing with Chris Mannix - Boxing Boogeymen1:06:30
Boxing with Chris Mannix - Wilder’s Legacy and the Last Stand of AB1:08:34
Boxing with Chris Mannix - Matchroom/Queensbury Winners and Losers18:52
Boxing with Chris Mannix - Matchroom vs. Queensbury1:00:36
Boxing with Chris Mannix - Heavyweight Havoc59:36
Boxing with Chris Mannix - Bad Blood44:09
Boxing with Chris Mannix - Usyk is Undisputed16:13
Boxing with Chris Mannix - Undisputed1:20:17
Boxing with Chris Mannix - What to Make of Mike Tyson?52:32
Boxing with Chris Mannix - Can Anyone Touch Inoue?1:00:16
Boxing with Chris Mannix - The Canelo Train Rolls Along23:34
Boxing with Chris Mannix - Canelo-Munguia is Here1:23:21
Mannix is joined by Eddie Hearn to discuss Ryan Garcia's positive B-sample, the rematch between Josh Taylor and Jack Catterall, Anthony Joshua's place in the heavyweight division and more (8:00). Later, Taylor joins to talk his anticipated rematch with Catterall (32:33). #Volume #Herd
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This is boxing with Chris Manning, how somebody punch him in the face.
Empty Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher.
Wat's this hosted by SI's Chris Mannex. That was my moments now with interviews, analysis and everything going on in the world of boxing.
When you have talent, you are given another chance.
Here's Chris Mannix.
And we are back Boxing with Chris Mannix, part of the Volume Sports podcast Network. Would welcome in everyone that's listening on the podcast feed. If you are not a subscriber, head over to the Box with Chris Mannix feed. Hit that subscribe button. Make sure you get this pod in your feed every single week. Oh man, boxing is just on fire right now. I mean, great event last week in Saudi Arabia, great top rank show in Southern California. Shout out to Brian Norman, incredible performance against Giovanni Sention. Big weekend coming up This weekend, We've got a grudge match between Josh Taylor and Jack Catterall, a rematch up their fight for the undisputed championship a couple of years ago. No belts of the line in this one, but a ton of bad blood between these two guys. Josh Taylor will join me a little later to kind of unpack where all this animosity comes from and why he has been determined to make this rematch with caterall happen. Before we get to Josh Eddie Hearn is going to join me from the UK.
As always, we.
Cover a lot of ground with Eddie, from the wisdom of Derek Chesora getting back in the ring, this time with Joe Joyce, to the latest with Ryan Garcia, to how Anthony Joshua fits into the new heavyweight picture with Alexander Usik on the top. Good stuff from Eddie coming up a little bit later in the show. A quick word though on Ryan Garcia. So the news this week was that Garcia's B sample came back positive for Oustrey. No surprise there, the B sample almost always comes back the same as the A. Ryan's team quickly released the statement saying that a hair sample he had analyzed came negative, which they believe conclusively proves low level contamination and not an attempt to cheat. I mean that, of course, is nonsense. It does nothing of the sort. It doesn't prove anything one way or the other. Is the reality of that. The matter is now in the hands of the New York State Athletic Commission, which will decide if the result of the fight should be changed it properly, will and if Garcia will have to serve any kind of suspension. And look, I'm like a lot of you out there, I want to believe Ryan Garcia. I mean, that was the signature performance of his career.
No one wants to believe it was tainted.
But the reality is a banned substance was in his system and he at this point has no explanation for it. Austerereen is not in any legal supplements, full stop. Finding a supplement that was contaminated with it is going to be difficult. And beyond that, Ryan has said on social media that isn't take any supple. He sends backtracked on that, but you know that's out there. So the result of this fight should change, and Ryan Garcia should be suspended because boxing has to take these kind of test results seriously. I mean, the sport has been embarrassingly indifferent to it.
In recent years.
Look, Connor Ben had colomaphine in his system and the WBC, after what I thought was a goofy investigation, blamed it on eggs and put him right back in the rankings. Alicia Baumgardner tested positive last year, WBC did the same thing, said it was unintentional.
She keeps her belts.
The state of Michigan still has not weighed in on that fight that was almost a year ago, and the State of Michigan, which had jurisdiction there, has said nothing. Just this past weekend, Erica Cruz she popped positive in her title defense. We'll see if she gets to keep her belt.
It's crazy.
The one sport that should take banned substances seriously does not do it wild. So look, I don't think Ryan should be banned for life. I'm even willing to believe that he didn't do anything intentionally. But a fighter is responsible for what goes into his or her body and there has to be some.
Accountability for that.
All Right, when we come back, we'll get into that and much more with Matt Troom Boxing's Eddie Hearn. All right, Eddie Hearn is the chairman of Mattroom Boxing. This weekend, he is in the UK for the Josh Taylor Jack Catterall rematch. That is a fight that you could watch in the UK on his own. In the US, you can catch it on ESPN Plus. Eddie joins me here on the show. All right, and I want to cover a little bit of ground with you here, but I do want to start with a fight that you have nothing to do with that's coming up in the next few weeks. I saw the announcement order, I know you have something to do with. You're You're handed a lot of pies right now, so to speak. The Joe Joyce Derek Chasaura fight that's coming out just announce haven't no no, And look, you and I both probably have a tremendous amount of respect for what Derek Chasaur has done in his career, but the way he's fought recently two and four in his last six fights, uh two fights removed for getting beaten down and stopped by Tyson Fury.
My first reaction when I heard that fight.
Eddie was like, is it responsible to be putting Derek chsaa out there? I mean, he's never gonna quit because that's just not who he is. But I know you've talked about this a little bit in the past that maybe he should retire. Is some of it now on promoters and the British Boxing Board to to kind of look after him in situations like this?
Yeah, I think it's difficult because obviously Derek, you know, is at the back end of his career, of course he is, and he's not the fighter that he once was. At the same time, he's better than ninety nine percent of heavyweights in the world, right So, just because he's not the fighter he was, and you know, whilst he continues to pass all his medicals, it's difficult for someone like the board to say, no, you're not going to fight anymore, do you know what I mean? Like, I do have to say that I don't really want to see Derek fight again. You know, I think he's had a great career. Styles make fights, and I much prefer him to take this fight. Then I don't know, Deonte Wilder or Andy Rees or you know, a style that he's really not suited to Derek's, or a style that might actually be dangerous. You know, Joyce is slow and he's quite ponderous, and you know, he can punch a bit, but he's not overly dangerous. I mean, he's a very fit, big guy. So yeah, I'm you know, I'd like to see him pack it in, but hopefully this will be his last one, and I'm glad he's fighting someone like Joyce rather than you know, a young whipper snapper that can really punch with speed and you know, move and and give him real problem. So listen, he's got half a chance in the fight, but hopefully this will be the final curtain.
Win or lose. Would you ever put him on a mattrom show again?
I mean, you know, I don't want to sit here and say, oh, I'd never put Derek on a show. I'd definitely be reluctant to put him in certain types of fights, you know what I mean, Like, you know, if he had a ten round fight in a fight that he was a massive favorite. I mean, it's hard not to justify that. So you know, there's other fighters that are coming through, younger guys who are very inexperienced, who would would look to use a name like that to establish themselves as a bit of a draw and gain profile. And you know, like I said, at least it's a fight between two guys that towards the back end of their career, and you know he might win.
You work closely with Devin Haney.
The news this week was that Ryan Garcia's B sample tested positive for ostering, just like the A sample. No surprise there, I mean, it's the same collection. This was expected to be the result. Ryan has come out with some kind of investigation that his team has done involving hair samples. Either way, this is now headed to the New York State Athletic Commission for adjudication.
Now that we have a pretty.
Good amount of evidence about what was in Ryan's system, how much, et cetera, what do you think the next step should be?
Well, I mean that would be down to the New York stay Athletic Mission. I'm glad it's a fight that took place there because I think they're extremely thorough. I mean, yeah, I know Devin's pushing for a disqualification. Obviously the fight's a no contest. I mean, you know, even the way gives it that argument. But certainly with you know, one of the problems that we have in boxing, with testing is the lag of results. You know, these things take between two and four weeks to be reported back. So a lot of people will say, what's the point in testing during that period before the fight? You know, I really disagree with that because I think you'd still want to know, you know, you'd want to know what was in someone's system. I think the thing is with Ryan, you know, the New York State Athletic Commission will definitely call it a no context because guilty or not guilty of deliberately ingesting ostereen, it was one hundred percent in his body, right, we know that the fact, so the fight can't really stand in that respect. But this is something much more serious and deeper than that. This is Ryan's career and banned. I mean, he's going to get banned, you know. And this is the problem with strict liability, same problem Connor Ben's got. You know, it was acknowledged by the WBC that contamination is absolutely the likely source. But unfortunately it's like you still had it in your system. And I've said to Ry and you know, I said to him last week and read I hope you're innocent, right, and I even give you the benefit of the doubt, but it doesn't take away from the fact that it was in your system when you thought. Devin Hainey and if I'm Ryan, I'm getting off social media. I mean, I can't believe someone close to him right now he's not getting hold of him, getting him off social media, getting him away to chill out and just get his mind right and get ready to deal with this situation. Because every day, every tweet just gets worse and worse and worse. And you know he said before the fight that you know, oh that was all joke me, the build up, you know that was just me being you know, like playing with people's minds. Well, he's carried on the exact same behavior. And what was this five weeks since the fight? Now, like anybody that knows Ryan Garcia, I don't even know it. And I'm telling you he's acting uncharacteristically. What is the reason for that. Someone needs to protect him and someone needs to help him. Where are these people around it? He's just off on a jet in a game from country to country tweeting like absolute nonsense. I don't understand it. You know, it's it's almost like, oh, he's fault. Now, we've got our job done. We got him in the ring. Oh and he won as well. Sensational off he goes, Let him do his own thing.
Why has Devin become kind of a villain in all this?
Because if you look at the yeah, like it's the weirdest thing I've ever seen. I mean, look, we've been what we've been through. Econo Ben, I mean conn of Ben had substantially less in his system than Ryan Garcia did, right, and he's like the greatest villain of all time. This like, this guy's apparently just unlucky, you know, And Devin Hayne is a sore loser. I mean, look, the weight thing's the weight thing, Like you can't you accepted the fight, right, so you knew what you were signing up for. I think they should have still got him to weigh in on the day of to fight, but whatever. But now you're thinking, I've got beat to a guy that you know was three and a half pound over. God knows what he weighed on the night. Now I got beat to a guy who had performance enhancing drugs in his system. I mean again, I hope Ryan Garcia is innocent. If he's not innocent, and he's done that deliberately and with the beating at times that Devin Haney took in that fight, you know, that's a really uncomfortable thing to think about in my actually looking back on the fight. So God knows what Devin's feeling. But you know, the world's a strange place, and you know, I worry about Devin as well, you know, I mean, like I worry about all fighters. Tyson Fury, like you don't understand when you haven't suffered defeat and you and I've seen it with AJ and all of a sudden, you get beat, the world turns against you. You know, you're reading the replies on social media like you've given your whole life to this ball. You can pretend that it doesn't affect you. There's no way it can't. So, you know, I hope they can both find peace. But they've got I have good people around him, and I know Devin's got a great infrastructure around him and he'll be fine. But for Ryan, I think really feel like someone's got to put their arm around him at the moment.
Do you think the punishments Eddie need to be significant in situations like this, because we've had fighters testing positive for bad substances and the punishments either being minimal or non existent. I mean Alicia Bombgardner frankly didn't get anything after she tested positive after her fight last year. You know, Connor Ben was cleared by the WBC. Now we've got the Ryan situation, Like, do these punishments have to you know, if guys test positive, do they have to be real punishments?
Yeah?
I think so. I mean again, like I feel like if a fighter has unintentionally ingested, and contamination is a real thing, and so's cheating. By the way, I'm sure there's fighters that have told me or told people they were contaminated and they actually intentionally cheated. And I'm sure there's people who have been contaminated and definitely didn't cheat. Right, You've just got to use your gut feeling and your your knowledge of that individual to make your own mind up. It's difficult to do. It's all very well saying I've never taken it, I was contaminated, and I think that is true in some cases, but unfortunately you've got to try and prove it, and without you know, the supplements or without the food or you know, it's very difficult to do so. So I think that now, because of the frequency of testing, sometimes you can prove that you haven't been on a cycle or you know, if you've been tested three times in two weeks and both either side were negative and this one was, you know, a very small trace gives you a better argument, to be honest, but it's a difficult argument to win, and that's the difficulty Ryan Garcia has.
Now, what do you think about all these fighters that are requesting the testing and testing positive.
One guard Eric Cruz. Ryan has said he wonder testing.
Yeah, I mean, Erica Cruz is the latest example, you know. I mean we I don't I don't want a badge of honor, but we are testing so deep on these cards now. I mean, that was a show that we had in Mexico that was a pretty small show, right, and we tested not just the main event, but also the undercard fights because Erica Cruz came to us and said, look, I really want testing.
For my fight.
So we're like, okay, no problem. So we paid for testing and she tested positive. I mean quite honestly, we wouldn't have tested for that fight if she hadn't requested it only on the night right. So I don't know. I mean, I really do believe that when you when you see things like that, you can't help but think, you know, was this contamination or I don't know. I mean, it's a difficult one, but you've got to deal with it, you know, and Ryan's got to deal with it now. But I wish you'd come off social media and because it makes it worse and worse and worse.
You know, I think there are either a lot of contaminated supplements out there, or people are just sociopaths, like they just believe they can beat anything.
Oh for sure, Chris, I think it's an easy excuse to make. You know, sometimes you know the individual, sometimes you know the teams. Because I don't believe I don't believe that Ryan Garcia, whatever happened, I don't believe Ryan Garcia woke up and said I need to take auster in today to help me. Right, it would have been someone around it. Maybe someone gives him some something to drink while he's trying to cut weight. Well, I had no idea. Maybe he didn't even know and someone else did. Right, But it's very, very not often would it be a fighter that wakes up and makes the decision to do this. It'll be a team of people around them, you know.
So you've got a big one this weekend over the Jack Catterall Josh Taylor. Finally these two guys get in the ring for their rematch. You know, the the tagline for this fight is hate runs Deep, and that's a pretty powerful tagline.
You know.
We see a lot of bad blood between fighters in the build up to fights in boxing. Agady and oftentimes it turns out to be in some ways more manufactured than it is actual.
The disdain these two seem to have for each other.
How real is it and how does it match kind of some of the other other examples of bad blood you've seen in the past.
It's like, this is an attack on site kind of relationship, you know, Like I've bought fighters together. I'm talking about Frotch, Groves, Bellue, Cleverly Quick Frampton. Like you bring them together, they do a face off. Maybe after thirty seconds, someone says something, someone pushes someone. This is like as soon as I get within grabbing distance, I'm going to put my hand around your throat. You know. It's kind of like and they never stop. I mean, actually, yesterday, Sometimes you find this the fight week press conference is a bit more tame, you know, and it was yesterday. The way in today was quite you know, dramatic. And then Josh Taylor kind of tapped Jack Catcher and he put his hand around his throat again. I was like, here we go again. So yeah, there's a lot of bad blood in this fight. It's a big fight, you know, there's eleven thousand sold out. It's had a lot of attension over here in the UK. Obviously there's a huge amount of narrative, a lot of controversy from the first fight two years ago, and really careers on the line, really in terms of being in big fights, Like both guys want to fight the big names of the division, want to challenge for the world titles, and if they lose, there are a million miles away from this. So you know, the first fight was quite a cagey affair and I think this one will be very different. I don't think either I'll be wanting to leave. It's a scorecards and I expect a great fight tomorrow.
Why is this fight such a big fight over the UK? There are no belts on the line in this fight. The first fight was competitive, but it wasn't exactly the most aesthetically pleasing fight in the ring.
Rival We're a bit strange over here, Like you know, it's like it was it was actually quite violent the first time around in the build up, and then obviously with all of the controversy, it's like the families that got involved. You know, it's been on social media for two years, like everyone remembers what happened, and you know, it's England versus Scotland. It's too fari characters and it's just you know, it just took off. You know, we sold eleven thousand in like an hour, so it's one of the biggest fights we've had over here for a while. It's great timing as well. You know, we've got a lot of big fights going to Riard next week as well, of course with a five v five and it's great to put you know, the biggest British fight of the year so far by a long way on British soil. So you know it's going to be a great atmosphere in this one.
You mentioned reading we are about a week removed from the great fight between Tayson Fury and alexand Usik Eddie in the ring. Both these guys said that they were open to the rematch. They wanted the rematch that is contractually obligated, you know, potentially for as early as October, with the dust settling a little bit. Any reason to believe why this wouldn't happen next for both guys.
No, I mean, look, when you think about the rematch, there's a couple of reasons it couldn't happen. One is someone's injured, right, which doesn't appear to be the case, although it was a physically taxing fight for both. And the other one is that someone retires or doesn't want the fight. I mean some people have talked about what a time for Usik to retire. You know, he's going to make more money for the rematch, so unlikely, probably thinks he can win the rematch, which I think he's the favorite to do. And I think, you know, there should be a rematch because it was a great fight. You know, we were there obviously, me and we had winning the fight tight. Some had it a little bit wider, but still a very close, competitive fight. So as much as I want Aj to fight Fury or Usik, I do think that rematch should happen, and I'm sure it will come October in Riad.
How well, yeah, I think the right.
But how much pressure if you can even put pressure in a situation like this, can you put to make an Aj Fury fight next, Because it feels like Eddie, if Fury loses this rematch to Usik, it's going to be an underdog going into that fight. If he loses the rematch, does it take an AJ fight off the table forever?
I mean Fury might walk away after.
That, I mean not.
You know, obviously Fury wins in the fights for the unders Futy, it's bigger than it is. If Fury loses, it's still a massive fight, but they would have both lost too Sick twice. It's always going to be a big fight. But at the same time, you know, we can't worry about other people, you know, we can't base our career around Tyson Fury winning or losing. The only focus that AJ has is regaining the World Heavyweight championship. Now, whether that's the IBF spin off, whether that's Usick, whether that's Fury, we don't really care. That's just the aim and whoever's got it, it's got it. You know. AJ's not really focused on Fury. He's just focused on the belt or a belt. So we'd love to fight Tyson Fury for it. Hopefully, if there is a rematch, he can do the business, but obviously he's going to be up against it.
You mentioned that IBF title, and the thinking going into Fury Usic was that immediately after that fight, the IBF would strip the winner of that title. It sounds like there's a little bit of gray area there now, with U sixteen requesting an exception. There you've got the Dubois Hergovic fight happening next weekend in Saudi Arabia.
Where do you stand on that?
Because AJ is involved in that right like he would be theoretically next in line to fight the winner of Hergovich Dubois.
Yeah, and as I understand it, there's already been an exception, so very unlikely, you know, I think I get both sides of the argument. You don't really want the belts to be fragmented, but then you've got a guy that's been ordered ages ago and has been waiting and waiting and waiting. So it was my understanding that the Furyustic fight took place on the condition that the winner has to fight Hergovic with no exceptions. I don't think that's going to happen next week for her Ergovich Dubois for that to be on the line, but maybe the winner of that, AJ's next in line for the IBF would have to see. But you can't just ignore your mandatory challenger for like two or three years. And I get the whole point of yeah, but it's great to have an undisputed champion, But what if you're the shoes on the other foot, and you're this guy who's been mandatory and now he goes out and beats Duboir and like now, and now he's told now, actually you can't get your world title shot till the summer of twenty twenty five. It's like it's not fair. So I get both sides of the argument. But I do expect that IBF belt to come vacant, but very unlikely for next Saturday.
All right, last thing for you, speaking of next Saturday, the five e five, give me the one fight there that you're most excited about for whatever reason. Maybe it's a young guy like Amma Williams getting a big opportunity. Maybe it's the two faded guys and Wilder and saying, but give me the one fight that you're really motivated to see.
I know this is going to be a really like or answer to Chris, but like the first part, like Craig Richards against Willy Hutchinson, Like it's a pure fifty to fifty matchup between two Brits. Right, Craig's lost the type decision to Bivol. Willie Hutchinson won the World Amateur Championship, Like he's he's a guy who's undefeated as a pro. And then you've got like Ammo against Shiras. Shiraz is like really Queensberry's hot pick. They really rate him, and Ammo like, you know him right, he's a he's a wild guy, great athlete, can punch, He's had a great camp. That's a WBC final eliminator. Then you've got ray Ford, who's coming off one of the fights of the year fighting Nick Ball, who should be WBC World Champion. That's a really tough fight. Pergovich Duguire. I'm very confident about in our man and I'd probably have to say wild A zam to be honest with you, because wild is our captain. So it's double points for the captain pick. And I think it's going to come down to that last one.
I mean, we may be.
Locked in by then, but we may need Deonte Wilder to win by stoppage to win the entire competition. And if he does, I'm going to jump in a ring, give him a big cuddle, and it's going to you know, everybody's going to embrace it with a championship, you know. So this is a really unique concept. It's going to be a lot of fun next week, and it's a humdinger of a card like brilliant, Brilliant night of boxing.
Didn't Emma Williams write a disk track about you a couple of years back.
Yeah, yeah, I know. You know he went for a rough time, Mam. I'm very proud of him. You know, he really lost it. I think I can see behavioral traits in people quite easily, you know, dealing with young fighters over over the period of time. I just actually spoke to a young man on the phone called Scott Fitzgerald who really lost his way in boxing and suffered and you know, got himself in trouble and you know, sort of substance abuse and stuff like that, and he's he's come through the other side now. Just actually funny enough, he phoned me ten minutes before this and I'm spoken to him for about two years and he's back in a gym and he's got himself together and you know, and with Ammo, I started to see that change of behavior in him, and he came through a fight. I can't remember what the fight it was. I think it was Dennis Guggling actually was the fight, and I just felt like it wasn't himself, you know, and he really struggled, and you know, he went and got him self helped and Pete Burg and those guys did a great job to sort of rally around him, and he he came through the other side. And it took a long time, you know, probably six months of working on his mind and trying to get him back in and you know, during that period, we had a little bit of a fallout, and you know, I think I'm sure he did some things he regrets as well. But I'm very proud of the way he's come back because sometimes when someone goes into you know, spirals into that kind of mental state, you wonder if they're ever going to come back. And we'll be a million percent behind him next week and if he wins, it's a massive moment for his career.
That's a great card this weekend, great card next weekend. Then your US tour, Eddie continues. When you're Puerto Rico, You're Arizona to Philadelphia.
Yeah, can't waite, can't wait, mate, Foxing's flying.
You got Eddie. Appreciate the time, man, know you're busy. Thanks thanks for joining me.
Cheer's mate speak said and when we.
Come back my conversation with Josh Taylor. All right, Josh.
Taylor is the former undisputed one hundred and forty pound champion. There will be no belts on the line this Saturday when he takes on Jack Catterall, but there is a lot of bad blood between these two fighters. The Taylor Caterall fight can be seen on Dezonne in the UK, ESPN Plus in the US, and Josh Taylor joins me here on the show.
So, Josh, I got.
An email on Wednesday from the promoters of this fight, and the headline of the email was hate runs deep. Now, now we've seen some seen some bad blood between fighters before, but this is kind of this is kind of next level. Is this the the most animosity you've kind of had towards an opponent?
Well, to be fair, I don't feel I don't feel any hate, you know, I'm I'm very calm, poised and collected to be honest. You know, they build it, hate runs deep, But I mean I don't I don't know Jack to hate them. So I thought it was a a pretty silly headline. You know, hates a really strong word. So I mean, don't get me wrong, right, now, if he were sitting in front of me, I'd probably stick the head on him, you know, and give him a good day Glasgow kiss. You know it's been saying Scotland, you know, but no, I don't. I don't hate anyone, you know, I think I think it's a pretty strong word. But there's set disliked there and a lot of disregard for each other right now. Certainly me towards him, but I'm actually quite emotionless and self detached, so that motions that I have felt towards them in the past, it's just it's just fueled the fire for motivation and training, you know, that's that's just used it to cook my dinner as we say. So, yeah, it's just I'm kind of I'm kind of detached from it. I'm just it's just another boxing match and another match of the weekend.
Where does that disregard the dislike come from. Is it all from the end results of your first fight or was there something before then that led to this?
Well, I think a lot of it's just the competitive nature and the two of us, but also there's been a lot of things said after the fight, you know, both from his side and my side, you know, sorry each other. His team then started that I hate campaign against me having his fans, and then you know, then start targeting my wife and things like that, and they that's when I started turning a bit siber you know. So that's when we started sort of then so started getting thrown back the two and fourth from each other. So yeah, there's a lot of sort of disregard between the two of us, but hate And you know, I'm leading up to this fight and this week I'm actually I'm emotionally detached. You know, I'm very calm and poised. And what more can I say to him this week that I haven't already said to him in the lead up and in the last couple of years. So as what is and I'm just I'm just going with the flow, you know.
You know, you you've had trash talk with the points before. But was it the personal stuff maybe maybe the stuff about that involved your wife that bothered you the most.
Yeah, finish started getting my family. You know, it's when it's when all the when all the the sort of attention was turned to my family and started getting my family started getting it. That's when I started getting I started getting my backup about things, but you know it's being done. I've just used it for fuel to training, to motivate me and get ready for this fight and really dig the closing and amongst training camps. So yeah, I'm kind of emotionally the tax right now. I'm really relaxed here. I'm sitting here with my wife and chilling out. So yeah, I'm like, I'm very relaxed.
You've had a lot of time to digest that first fight. How confident are you that you want it?
I'm very confident that I want it, you know. But I've said it a hundred times and one hundred different interviews. It could have gone the other way, you know, I could have if his hand got raised and he had wanted by a point or two, I do right, okay, But the judges never saw it that way. The sort of my favor and I felt that I had done just enough to win in the second to second half of the fight. You know, I thought I felt that never really done much, you know. I know he had to knock down, but apart from that, he never really done much.
You know.
He was very negative and disengaging, you know, and obviously that's what the judges didn't like.
Why was it important for you to do this rematch?
Well, we were doing how we actually got rematch to do it straight away obviously because a lot of there was a lot of controversy and stuff on this side of the water, and we were doing to do it straight away. But then I ended up picking up the injury to the planet fash attendant on my heel. And then by that point, instead of the promoter bench along a boxer getting another date, they like dialed down and locked in. He then went away and took Jack onto another fight on a different show somewhere, which then fell through. And then by that point the WP over like, well, young got a fight lined up, were coming to order your mandatory which is to your femal openz. So then it was taking out my hands then, you know, I to fight Teo or be stripped of the belt on the belt that I had left. So I took the fight with Teal obviously, all intentions to go there and win and come back and fight Jack for the title again. So but you know that plan was up in the air. TiO tore it up. You know I wasn't there. It was just better than me on the night, so as well, as you know.
I'm not surprised that this fight is happening, Josh, because you guys are rivals, a big fight over in the UK. I'm a little bit surprised that it's happening at one hundred and forty pounds because you've talked in the past about what it takes for you to get down to one forty Was there any consideration for you to do this fight maybe at a catchweight, or do this fight at one forty seven.
No, because I've had I've done my last fight in New York against Teo. I made the weight really really comfortable, really really comfortable, you know. I know it didn't see it because it looks like my legs were like putty after four or five rounds, But that was due to the injury that I had. I couldn't get the conditioning in my legs. I couldn't do my roadwork, I couldn't do my leg work, couldn't do the plometric training in my legs. The only thing could really do was the boxing training, you know, and I got super fit boxing, but I couldn't do I get all the leg conditioning because of the injury, and in hindsight, I should have put that fight back as well. But I felt like I had a great camp and tea was better on the night, simple as you know. But yeah, as well it is. And we're here now, and I can't wait, you know, I can't wait. I can't wait for Saturday. Now.
How do you feel physically going into this fight?
I feel great. I feel great. I've just finished on it doing a session now. No, I'm still eating all lots, still drinking a lot. I haven't started doing my weight cut yet and all that. So yeah, I'm feeling great. I'm feeling on top.
What's different Josh about cutting weight to one forty now, because I mean, like I said, you have talked about going up in wait after you won the undisputed championship, and we know that.
You know, weight cuts are tough.
And I just saw Joe Cordina, you know, lost that fight this past weekend. I think in part because he's just no longer one hundred and thirty to thirty pounder. He had to go up and back up and wait and fight at one thirty five. What's different about you that makes you make coffee? You can make this weight in the right way.
Because I've got a great team around me. You know, I've got a guy, a sports scientist, a sports doctor, PhD. And nutrition and sports science. So he took me into the university here Loveverpool, where I am done all my body compositions done, my bone dens, my water hold much water I'm holding him, My muscles, my salt, everything, you know, done all the tests, and I can make the way I can make the weight. And I've always said that I'm a career one forty pounder. It's just the last couple of times I've just not done it properly, you know, I'm just I've just not put a little bit of corners here and there.
You know, twenty twenty one, you become the undisputed champion at one forty and I'm sure you're thinking at that time or I'm gonna go wan to run here like I'm gonna either move up to one forty seven. Terrence Crawford is out there, big fights are out there. You only had a chance to fight two times since then? Is that Is it disappointing for you to not get the kind of run you probably hope for after you won all the belts.
Yeah, it has been quite disappointing, you know, and a lot of it was like sort of still down to half COVID measures and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, it was It's been very disappointing, but you know, there's no point in trying about spilled milk as well as you know a plan obviously planning boxing three times this year. I was hoping to get this one done earlier in the year, then box but about this time, and then box again further on in the year. But I'll definitely get two in this year, you know, at least two.
The last fight was a nip and tuck type of fight, as you said, could have gone either way. What do you think is going to be different about this fight?
I'm taking it much more seriously that time. You know. The last time, you guys the media before the fight, never give it Jack a chance. No one gave Jack a chance, and including myself, and that was a mistake that I made. You know, everybody was like, after this fight, what you're doing, Josh? He going to move up? You wont everything at one forty? What you want to do? Do you want to move up to one forty and get a fight at want to one four seven and then challenge the Lake's Terrence Crawl for us for a Baker title and this and that, and I was like, yeah, absolutely, that's what I'm going to do. I got carried away with it. It says, yeah, beat this guy on Saturday, take care of him, and you ever move up to one full seven and see what's happening. And that was the almost fatal mistake that I made. You know, the first rule in the art of warfare is never overestimate or underestimate your opponent. Sorry, so, and that's what I've done I made. I made that brutal mistake and almost paid for it. So I won't be doing that again. I'm full switched on. I know what I've got in front of me. There's a threat, and I'm I'm fully prepared this time, mentally and physically.
Never listen to the media, josh We did the same thing to Anthony Joshua before the Eddy Rowize fight, and look what happened there.
Never listen to us. We don't know anything.
That's the lesson that I thought i'd learned from other fighters, you know, But having the level of success that I had in such a short period of time, I am only human at the end of the day, and I made an error of you know, taking my eye off the ball, and I've learned the mistake, and I learned almost learn him do a tough way.
I was I know you're focused on catterall, but I was reading some stuff from your trainer saying he's got some concern about the officials in his spite.
Specifically the referee.
How do you feel about kind of everybody around this by going into it.
I don't care. I don't care. I'm fully focused on doing a number on Jack Catterroll on Saturday, and I feel that the judges and the referee won't have an impact, you know, because I feel like I'm going to be so dominant and put on a good display that it's not going to be an issue. I just hope that the referee doesn't allow for the constant spoiling and holding that Jack done the last fight, which meant for a really ugly, horrible fight. You know, it was excessive when he took He must have warned him about forty odd times during the fight about the holding, and he took ten rounds to take a point of him. You know. Also, I just hope that the referee is more firm with with that sort of thing in terms of not letting him hold and be dissing, sort of unengaging in the fight. You know, it's I thought, I hope the referee lets us fight it out and and sort of pulls pulls him up when he's holding.
You took your first loss of your career against Ta Femo in your last fight. What did you take away from from that? What did you learn from that that you think is going to help you moving forward?
And I think it was more me that lost the fight rather than t O beating me. I learned the lesson that you never go into the ring if you've got an impairment. You know, if you've got a little bit of an injury or you're not one hundred percent or able to do everything the correct way, don't fight. And I thought that I was able with the limitations I was able to do in training camp. I still felt that was in great shape, and still felt that was in great condition, but you know, I found it out the hard way and I took my first loss. So congratulations to teer fem Ma Lopez. I'm not taking anything away from them, but I just know that I'm better than that. A hundred times. You know, so I believe it me or my best beast, Formal Lopez, So I would I would mind visit revisiting that at some point in the future.
Are you're both with top rank, do you think you get a rematch?
Yeah, hopefully if it's it's all in house. So like it's it's a pretty easy fight to make mm.
Before I let you go.
We've seen a lot of you know, when there's bad blood between guys before a fight, afterwards, they usually hug it out and it's all over. Do you think that's gonna be the case with you and Jack Catterall after Saturday night?
Right now, I can't see it. Right now, I can't see it, you know. I can see me giving them a good beating and then telling the goal. I'm sick you're seeing you, so speaking about you, speaking talking about you, sick in hearing your name. Now get to France, you know where you go. And that's the feelings that I have right now. So I mean, we'll see, but right now, no chance.
At the very least, Josh, I'm glad it's finally happening. It feels like we've been talking about this month after month for the last two years. I'm glad you guys are finally getting UH to share the ring man good luck on Saturday, and as always, I appreciate your time.
Thank you very much, thanks for having me.
That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Eddie Hearn and Josh Taylor for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple, podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts, and I'll see you next week.
Dangers so much, I go sleep.
