Boxing with Chris MannixBoxing with Chris Mannix - Anthony Joshua - Dillian Whyte is off
Chris is joined this week by boxing writer and broadcast Corey Erdman as the guys discuss the AJ-Whyte situation, Jake Pauls win over Nate Diaz, and how Jermell Charlo says he will fight Bud Crawford, but should Bud wait for that fight. Later, Matchroom Boxing Chairman, Eddie Hearn drops by to talk about how he learned about Dillian Whyte's failed test and the what took place after to find the best possible fight for Anthony Joshua. #Volume #Herd
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Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher.
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When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix. This is Boxing with Chris Mannix, part of.
The Volume Sports podcast Neverfore. Thank you for joining me this week. I don't think you for joining me every week. As I've often said, you guys are the best audience in all of combat's sports. Those that subscribe that rate that review, I thank you. It's the best way to help us grow this show. So it has been a weirdly busy week in boxing. Came into the prep for this show thinking we talk about the Jake Paul na Diez fight talk about the Valdez never Rete fight, and we're gonna do all that. Corey Erdman Boxing Scene dot Com. He's going to join me to run through all the news of the week in boxing. But in the last couple of days, there have been some developments in the heavyweight division. Dillion White, former world title challenger. He is out of a scheduled fight against Anthony Joshua, testing positive for a banned substance. In his place, Robert Helenius, another former world title challenger, who will step in and face AJ on short notice. Eddie Hearn Mattroom Boxing. He's going to join me to discuss everything's happened over the last few days as it relates to AJ and Dillian White. But I want to weigh in on this myself before we get to Corey and to Eddie, and look, I don't want to talk too much about what happened with Dillion White, largely because I don't know enough. I don't know what substance Dillion White tested positive for. I don't know the amount of the substance in his system. I don't know any reasoning or excuses Dillion White might have for testing positive.
So I want to put that.
On a shelf for a moment and just talk about the replacement, and that is Robert Helnius. Now it's not a great fight. Let's be real about that. Robert Helnius, he's old, he's washed up. Deontay Wilder probably got the last bit of credibility out of Robert he Lnnius, who resustated his career with two wins over Adam Kovnowski, which were significant wins at that time. Goes into the Wilder fight, is game, comes to fight, but gets knocked out in the first round viciously, one punch knockout by Deontay Wilder. I think most people believe that was going to be the end of Robert Lennius. He came back this past weekend won a low level fight in a castle in Finland. You haven't seen the video of that. I encourage you to go on social media and find it. And now he's stepping in to face Anthony Joshua. It's not a great fight. Anthony Joshua should win this fight convincingly, should win this fight by knockout if we're being honest.
But I don't really.
Care because I came into twenty twenty three thinking of it as a rebuilding year for Anthony Joshua. Anthony Joshua has had a tough last few years. He lost to Andy Ruiz in twenty and nineteen. He lost two fights in a row Dallexander Usik, neither one of them which were all that close.
He has a new trainer.
He's trying to rebuild for a new last chapter of his career. That's what I always viewed twenty twenty three as he fought your Maine Franklin, that was the right fight Dillion White. See this Dillion White fight had the benefit of being the right fight for Anthony Joshua the boxer and the right fight for Anthony Joshua the business man because Dillion White has history with Anthony Joshua. They fought back in twenty fifteen. That was a fight when both those guys were prospects. He talks a lot, there's bad blood there, and he's got enough credibility with his own win over Jermaine Franklin to make him a credible opponent for Joshua. But I never thought it was a particularly dangerous fight for aj. In fact, he was the kind of fight that would take place in front of a rabid crowd in London and AJ would win by spectacular knockoff. That's how I viewed the AJ Dillion White fight. With that fight now off, I know there are a lot of people out there saying, hey, Andrew Ruiz put his hand up again.
There's a storyline there. Philip Hergovic is on the undercard, just bump him up.
Mark Mccoli is out there, Michael Hunter is out there, but asking AJ to take one of those fights on what is effectively five or six days, Notice, it just wasn't realistic. What's more realistic is AJ taking a fight like this, which is a low level fight, and continuing to rebuild his confidence, continuing to rebuild himself as a fighter, get another, you know, however, number of rounds with Derek James in his corner, and keep building towards what should be a pretty compelling twenty twenty four. I mean, twenty twenty four for AJ has the potential to be a massive year. Let's say this Deontay Wilder fight comes through, the one that's planned for Saudi Arabia January February of twenty twenty four.
That's a major event, dangerous fight.
Major event is gonna make Anthony Joshua a boatload of money. Let's say Anthony Joshua gets through a Deontay Wilder fight, a showdown with Tyson Fury is massive. Whether it's in the UK or in the Middle East, that fight is going to generate Joshua tens twenties of millions of dollars, just a boatload of cash. It just doesn't make sense to take a challenging fight, even a B level fight like Herkovic, like Andre Luiz, like Martin Bikoli. You've got to be cautious in situations like that, especially when they come up on short notice. So that's kind of a long way of saying I don't really have a problem with AJ taking this silenious fight. I think it's I'm a little iffy on Helenius still boxing because he's been in some wars over the years, and that knockout by Deontay Wilder was vicious. But he did come back this past weekend. He got to win third round knockout, and his team believes he's ready to go once again. So I just I'm fine with it. It's whatever. I don't think it's a good fight. I don't think AJ is gonna be threatened. I think more likely than not he wins by big knockout. But at this point of his career, what he's trying to do, where he's trying to go with his career, this is the right fight for Anthony Joshua.
All right, So we're gonna talk to Cory.
Erdman about that and much more a little bit later on Eddie Hearn Matroom Boxing. He's gonna join the show as well, but first Corey Erdman Boxing Scene dot Com, his own broadcaster.
He is up next.
All right.
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That's code Mannix fifty at factormeals dot com slash Mannix fifty to get fifty percent off. All right, Corey Erdman is here Boxing Scene dot com, de Zone Broadcast or you can catch Corey on Friday at Overtime Arena in Atlanta. Who'll be on the mic for the Overtime Boxing series. That's a series you can watch every Friday on to Zone at Corey. I was just talking a moment ago about the Ajdillion White situation. Dillion White, of course testing positive for a banned substance. He is out of the Anthony Joshua fight on Saturday. Robert Helenius, who was last scene in a mainstream way in the US against Deontay while they're losing in the first round, he is now in. So give your thoughts on everything that's transpired the last couple of days between AJ and Dillian White.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, obviously I was disappointed, and you know, it's the timing obviously isn't good for matchroom either, because they're obviously coming off the heels of dealing with and litigating the Connor Ben situation and then having Dillian White go through this as well. It's not a nice situation for them to.
Be in pr wise.
But it did mean that I didn't completely waste my time last week because when I got here to Atlanta, Chris, rather than go sightseeing and do any number of things that I could have done here in Atlanta, I was finding a way to watch Finnish television so that I could watch Robert Holanius fight in a castle built seventy five. And I was thinking to myself, like, what is the purpose of this other than feeding my own brain sickness. The purpose was that I was actually doing research for what would turn out to be the marquee fight of the very next week. So it turned out I didn't waste my time.
Yeah, I said at the top of the show, I don't have much to say about the million white situation. They don't know anything about the Dillion White situation. I don't know what he tested positive for. I don't know what his rationale or his reasoning is going to be, So I'm going to put that on a shelf for the moment. As far as AJ against Heillnnius goes, we've seen a lot of criticism about that fight, largely because when Helenius was last seen by a worldwide audience, he was getting nearly decapitated by Deontay Wilder in one round.
Knocked out by Wilder.
Whoever he thought, you know, that was going to be the end of Robert Helenius think even announced retirement after the fight, or suggest that he was going to retire after the fight, he comes back for a low level fight, as you said, in a castle in Finland. I saw some of the pictures and visuals from that that was interesting to say the least. Do you have a problem with aj taking on Robert Helnius on short notice?
No?
I mean with this kind of notice, I think that Hellnius is about as good as you're going to get. And like, yes, could Joshua have given you know, more of an unknown fighter, a younger fighter, an opportunity on short notice?
I suppose, But Hellnius is.
At least a name that is known to people, and they still have to market a fight like this. And as much as we're in the know and the listeners of this show or in the know and they know what the deal is with this fight, there will be others who will see, oh, you know, former world title challenger, a guy that's bought some big names, and there is some value to that. And there's also some value in that kind of continuity. The through line with what Deontay Wilder did to Hellnius and the obvious fact that the fight that Joshua and his team are headed towards is that fight against Deontay Wilder, so there can be some comparison there. And also I think for Joshua there is some value in what should be a knockout victory because it's been a little while since there's been a bit of a palate cleanser for Anthony Joshua. Of course, he gets the win over Jermaine Franklin, but then there's the two losses to Alexander Rusik. It's been a while since he's been able to add to that highlight real you know, like our friends in the editing department when they're putting together promos for AJ fights, they're still using that like Raphael Zumbano Love Knockout when AJ was like seven and zero. So it's there is some value, as sad as it is to say, in just getting some fresh content and something out there with AJ potentially starching someone, because I think that's what we're expecting to happen in this fight.
Yeah, I think it's easy to say that AJ should have taken on someone tougher, and it's easy to say, you know, on paper, you could make a fight with Philip Perkovich who was fighting on the undercard, or we saw Martin Mccoli out there looking for the fight. Michael Hunter will fight anybody. You saw Andy Ruiz putting his hand up again to be a late replacement for Anthony josh But the reality is that very few of those fights were realistic, especially within the timeframe that Mattriom had to make a fight. I mean, we saw Andrew Ruiz. He couldn't make a fight with Deontay Wilder because money was a stumbling block. Philip Pergovic is undefeated, He's got an eye on a world title shot his next fight.
Would he have taken that fight on short notice?
I don't know, but you know he's got a fight of his own on the undercard, the potential to face Usick in his next fight.
So there's that part of it.
And look, I've often said that twenty twenty three is a rebuilding year for Anthony Joshua. He's coming off back to back loss to Usick. He's lost something like what three of his last five fights. He's bouncing back. He's got a new trainer in Dark James. He wants to stay active with that trainer. He wants confidence builders, like you said, he wants knockouts, and he's building towards a big fight, presumably against Deontay Wilder in the first quarter of twenty twenty four. So Helenius to me is fine. Like they took it off pay per view, which is the right thing to do. They'll give refunds the people that don't want to watch AJ versus Helenius at O two Arena. I just think we couldn't. We shouldn't have expected Anthony Joshua to replace Dillian White with anyone below or anyone above sea level. Just wasn't gonna happen. He needs something else at this stage. And Robert Helenius, even though I have some questions about whether Robert heleni should still be fighting because that was a catastrophic knockout he had to Deontay Wilder, but he just fought this past weekend, so he's obviously in decent shape at least. And look, he is a couple of fights removed from two pretty impressive wins at the time against Adam Kobnoski, so I don't really have a big problem with it. I don't really have a big problem with Afton josh I think he's got to be active at this point. He's been too inactive over the last few years, and he had to keep that date, he had to fight somebody. I didn't want to see him in against Direk Tasaur. I, Frank, I don't want to see dar is already more period.
I think.
I think Derek Caesa, if we're saying Robert Lennius is nearing the end, Derek Chasaur is at the end.
It's over for Derek Gesra.
He's got to stop taking beatings in the ring, even though he's fighting Gerald Washington, who also shouldn't be fighting. You've got a lot of guys on that card that I don't think should be fighting anymore. I didn't want to see Cesaa against aj. I think that's dangerous for Derek Deesra. For Hilenius it's still dangerous, but maybe not not so much.
I'm with you.
I'm expecting something seismic from from Anthony Joshua in that fight. It would be good for him for his highlight reel, for his confidence, to get a win under his belt and then move along with his career. So we'll address more of that with Eddie Hearn. He's going to join the show a little bit later on. Let's talk about this past weekend. We had Jake Paul go ten rounds for the first time in his career, beating Nate Diez Corey. I predicted a knockout in this fight, but other than the knockout, this went base as I expected. I wrote on Friday for SI dot Com that Nate Diaz does not have a chance to win, and all the MMA fans out there that were in my mentions and all the people that were shooting me down on social media, no proofs in the pudding. Like Nate Diaz, while showing more uh conditioning maybe than I thought, he went ten rounds in his first boxing match, so there's that. Uh did not seem to take this fight very seriously. Never threatened Jake Paul until he got him in a choke hold at the very end of the fight. Just it just went as I expected. How did that fight play out for you?
I pretty much as expected as well.
And you're right, like Nate Diaz was, I think that this is kind of the last time that Jake Paul can go to that well and that well being fighting a current or former MMA fighter and basically tricking the audience or a portion of the audience into believing that they have an opportunity to win.
I don't even know if that's true, Corey, Like I think MMA fans are always gonna believe in their guy. I think if if Jake Paul made a fight against Connor McGregor for December, sure, which is not gonna happen, by the way, there will be a large swath of pay per view buying MMA fighters that are going to be convinced that Connor McGregor, a one hundred and seventy pounds of him, can beat Nate Diez or beat Jake Paul.
Yeah, that's a good point, and you know, like hyper popular guys like McGregor are going to be outliers here.
And that's why Nate Diaz worked.
Here because I think that logically people understand now after seeing it time and time and time again many times with Jake Paul himself, that someone who is specializing in boxing is going to beat someone who's kind of a multidisciplinary fighter. That's just how this works in sports, and in particular in combat sports. Nate Diaz was sold as a guy that could have been a boxer but had these other skills, and so he went into MMA and it was rooted in these sparring sessions with Andre Ward over a decade ago, and the fact that Ward was kind enough to say, yeah, he was pretty good, you know, but we've heard that all the time. People are just very nice about people they spar and they're typically not going to you know, denigrate them afterwards that they're oh.
You had to listen to the guys. You had to listen to the guys that were doing the denigrating. Like it was at falcoa who sparred twelve rounds with him and Robert Garcia's Jim. He said, after two rounds, this guy was done. He said, boxing's not for him. I believe that guy, like I respect Andre Ward for backing up his guy and all the people that are part of Team Diaz.
But he's never boxed. He has never ever boxed.
And when you put a guy that has never boxed, that has fought in one combat sports discipline for his entire combat sports career in with the guy who as green as Jake paul Is clearly has some boxing skills. Rudimentary, yes, but he's got some boxing skills. He's got real power in both hands. You put him in, put a guy like DS in with a fighter like that, or any MMA fighter in with a guy like that and they're to.
Lose every single time.
They're gonna lose, Yeah, exactly, but you know, at the very least, you know, Diaz was basically able to and I wrote about this on Boxing Scene on Monday, he was kind of able to mimic what a like a UK or European level like Journeyman. I'm talking journeyman, like seventy to one hundred lost Journeyman, what they're able to do with prospects, which is basically just give them rounds, pander to the crowd, be a little bit of a clown, amuse everyone, and.
Then ultimately lose in the end.
And Diaz had the punch resistance and the cardio to offer that for Jake Paul while not really troubling him in any way. So he was able to do that, and he showed that, yes, Jake Paul has power in both hands, but he doesn't have like magic eraser power at cruiserweight or at one seventy five. He wasn't able to get Nate out of there. So he was able to show certain things that Jake will obviously have to work on if he has his goal of becoming world champion by twenty twenty six, which is what he said at the press conference afterwards.
That's a new one, I mean, not super new, but he's he's gone from saying I will be a world champion someday to put a date on it, and he's targeting Canelo. Like, let's be clear, it's not he doesn't want Canelo's title if Canelo doesn't have a title. He wants Canelo because that's a huge payday if he can convince Canelo Alverz to get into the ring with him.
But he's added that to his list of future teases.
One thing he's saying, though, and I'll take him at his word for it right now, is that he's willing to get into the cage with Nate Diaz fight him in the PFL, offering Nate Diaz ten million dollars and Corey. If I'm Nate Diaz, I take that immediately. If there's a check for ten million dollars plus pay per view upside, even if I don't really want to fight in the PFL, which it sounds like Nate's all that not all that warm too. You take ten million bucks and you get Jake Paul into your combat sports domain because Nate Diaz against Jake Paul in the cage. That's Nate Diaz all day long in my opinion. Yeah, and and faster, like I don't in the cage. Yeah, would you choke a guy out? Yeah, check him, you do all sorts of things.
Yeah, there's I don't see a.
Way for Jake Paul in the cage to do what Diaz was able to do in a boxer, which is just go rounds and survive and absorb punishment. There's just there's not ways to escape in the way that there is in the boxing ring. So yeah, of course, for ten million dollars, I mean, I'm sure that would be a career high payday. Of course you take that fight. And you know, credit to Jake Paul for, like, if he's serious about taking that, because that's a real risk, and you know, Jake Paul obviously, one thing he obviously cares about is his level of fame. He doesn't want to be humiliated on the internet. That is his currency and being able to be the troll who ultimately gets the upper end. He's putting himself at real risk of becoming a meme if he steps into the cage.
You know, so credit to Jake for putting himself out there and offering.
To do that. So you kind of touched on this.
Do you think there's any I mean, what's marketable out there for Jake? I had some people on social media say, hore mos vital No, No, it's the same outcome. It's the same, you know, even if you put like a John Jones in there with Jake Paul. I don't think John Jones beats him. He's a lot bigger, But I don't think John Jones beats Jake Paul in boxing. Frantz Nigano probably does because he's so much bigger. But uh, you know, the crossover options are they're dwindling. I mean, I think Connor McGregor would be huge, But I don't think Dana White's gonna sign off on Connor McGregor going to fight Jake Paul in a boxing match, Not not now, probably not ever. To me, the only options for Jake Paul in boxing in twenty twenty four are a rematch with Tommy Fury and then KSI. I mean KSI is the mega showdown, that's the mega fight. Probably over in the UK, they can probably do something like Wembley Stadium. I mean, they could do something big with Jake Paul against KSI. That fight gets even bigger if KSI can find a way to beat Tommy Fury uh later on this year.
And there's so much spice to that.
You know the relationship between KSI and Logan Paul, they're now best of friends, they are business partners. Logan has told me the beef between Jake and KSI.
Is absolutely real. They hate each other.
That has some spice to it, that has the ability to make Jake Paul a bundle of money in a crossover type of fight. But other than that, there's nobody left in the UFC that I want to see him fight. There's nobody in the other promotions, combat sports promotions that I want to see him fight.
And he's not ready for a real fight.
I mean, Canelo has got business in twenty twenty four and probably beyond against other real fighters.
I think it's just KSI. It's just Tommy Fury.
If Tommy Fury loses the KSI, he's probably out of that mix as well.
Yeah, I mean, I think like a year ago or so, you know, there was the possibility. I think, Julio says our Chavez Junior was being you know, dangled out there as well, but that like that.
Feels he retired to see. I don't even know.
I never retired, well, And it feels gross to me because it feels like it's praying on, you know, Chavez Junior's very real personal problems and if Jake were to win, and it's obviously because you know, Shaviz Junior's demons have just sacked him of whatever talent he had before, and so I'm not personally interested in seeing him go that route. I think the reality is that Jake isn't going to nor should he really fight someone who isn't already famous, who doesn't have built in fame and a built in storyline like the two names that you just mentioned. And there's also still some learning for him to do, and because of this predicament that we're talking about, that learning for him is going to have to happen in the gym. But a fight like against Ksi, it's it's kind of the perfect matchup because not only does it have all of those juicy storylines for the people who are invested in that world, but it's kind of two guys that are running on a parallel path and the winner can kind of say, well, I am the real boxer that's going to continue forward and the other one, you know, if they want to continue on and do the thing, that's fine, but it determines who the real one of these two is.
And that's at least something.
But there's just you're running out of options because Jake could fight an obscure boxer and just market the fight on his back as being you know, me versus a real boxer, whoever it is. But I don't think that's appealing to him, and it's not going to make him quite as much money. And you know, you know Jake a lot better than I do, but I get the sense that being a famous person and you know, being having successful events that aren't going to be you know, clown for tanking or anything like that, that is of utmost importance to him too. And if he steps outside of this realm of fighting people with built in cloud, he puts himself at risk of becoming that.
Yeah, he's been very critical publicly of the things that Misfits Boxing are doing, the Kingpin Boxing are doing, kind of the gimmicky stuff, tag team boxing, all the stuff we're seeing happen with influencers right now. He doesn't want to be part of that. Doesn't want to be a part of that. Yeah, I think it's it's ks as a mega event. If he can make that happen in the summer of twenty twenty four, that's a huge event over in the UK. I think there's still money in a fight against Tommy Fury, so he's got a couple of options left on the table.
I tell you it was interesting. I was.
It was a packed crowd at American Airline Center on Saturday night. I was in the crowd. Didn't call the fight, but I went and watched. And none of these people are boxing fans. None of them in fact, you know, you talk to a few of them, and the things you hear are this is my first ever boxing match.
You know, Floyd Mayweather could.
Walk through that crowd and he would be less identifiable than the guy Logan Paul does a podcast with like that. That's how I mean, that's how different and unique that crowd was. So he's able to bring some people into boxing and able to introduce them to some real fighters. And that's what brings me to my next topic, and that is Amanda Serrano, who we saw for the twentieth round.
Beat the daylights out of Heather Hardy. I give Heather Hardy a lot of credit.
I mean, she was all guts in that fight, but didn't have a chance to win from the opening bell forty one years old going up against a still in her prime Amanda Serrano, that was just too much, rather Hardy to handle. But I did find it interesting that Alicia Baumgardner was there ringside part of the commentary team for that fight.
That's a big fight.
Corey Serrano against bomb Gardner has become a pretty significant fight. That's a fight that I think can do a big crowd at Hulu Theater, at Madison Square Garden, maybe a small venue in Las Vegas. Of course, if you bring it back to Detroit bomb Gardner's turf, you could do a crowd there. Maybe you go to Puerto Rico and do a crowd there with Amanda Serrano. But that bomb Gardner's Serrano fight has, while not quite reaching Taylor Serrano or some of the other mega fights we've seen the last couple of years, that's on that next level. I think that's a pretty competitive fight. If I'm both women, that's the fight I'm pushing for next that. You know, if you're Amanda Serrano, what does the title defense at one twenty six do for you? You're not going to get a fight with Katie Taylor at least not until like May of twenty twenty four, and Kay Taylor, for all we know, could retire after fighting Chantel Cameron a second time. So if you're a man to Serrano, you're pushing for that fight. And if you're bomb Gardner, that's the only fight out there for you too. You want Taylor, you do a fight with Mikhaela Mayor at a different weight, but at one hundred and thirty pounds with all four of your belts, that's the only fight for you. So I think that's a mega fight that could be brewing over the next six months.
How do you see it?
Yeah, I think it's a fantastic fight, both marketing wise for both of them. I think that you know, Serrano and obviously her affiliation with Jake Paul and the muscle that they would put behind that promotion as well would benefit Alicia Bombgartner.
But also it's just a fantastic fight as well, like Serrano.
For me, you know, regardless of gender, is one of the most exciting fighters in the sport still for me, you know, just an all action, volume puncher. And at last Bomb Gartner is in that bucket as well. I mean, this is this is a dangerous uncher who has an exciting style in the ring. And we saw kind of the storyline building with bomb Gartner on commentary as well, kind of talking to Serrano on commentary and kind of saying like, hey, I'm this new generation that you haven't fought yet. Like you you were one of the greatest of all time. You have broken barriers, but there's an a tier of fighters who have come along since you and even since Katie Taylor that you haven't had a chance to fight yet, you know, her and MICHAELA. Mayer and Sinisa Strada, like all of these A level fighters that Serrano has yet to really match up with. Let's see if she can beat them like that. That is compelling. It's a generational battle, it's a fantastic style matchup, and it does good business as well.
I mean, Serrano and Bombgartner's stock.
You know, their social media following everything has been growing and growing and growing over the last year or two. I think it would be the perfect time and the perfect fight for both of them.
Yeah, And if you're Rono, who has pledged in the past that she wants to stay at one twenty six, she's only going to go up again for a rematch with Taylor. You got to come off that some because there's nobody at one twenty six or one twenty two coming up that makes any kind of sense, makes any kind of money for you.
And Bomb Gardner, even though.
She's a strong fighter and we've all seen the Terry Harper knockout, I probably favor Serrano in that matchup. I mean I was looking at the numbers from Serrano against Taylor. Serrano through like six hundred and fifty punches over ten two minute rounds against Katie Taylor, like she could overwhelm Bombgardner, and Bombgarterer may have just land that one bomb. And Serrano's also shown she's got a pretty good chin as willing to stand in the pocket.
That's just a great fight.
That's a headlining fight, and I don't think there is a headlining fight out there for either one of them. I mean Serrano in a title defense whatever, Bombgardner defending her title against Choi the Korean fighter, like I'm good.
I don't need to see that. There's there's nothing else out.
There for either one of them. I hope they those two sides can get together. It's match room, it's MVP. They've done a deal in the past. They did a deal for Taylor against Torono. They can do a deal again for Bombgarner against against Serrano. All Right, this weekend, Corey, we have a pretty good match up on the one hundred and thirty pound division. Oscar Valdez two fights removed from a loss to cha Cour Stevenson. He will be going for a one hundred and thirty pound title for a second time. He's gonna face a fellow Mexican in Emmanuel Navarette.
This feels like a good style matchup.
Like I know, Navarette is a slight favorite, but I think a lot of that is because people think Valdez has lost a step, he's a little bit older, had that tough loss. Of course, Stevenson's been some wars in the past, but I mean what I saw Navarette get knocked down in the fourth round by Liam Wilson. He's not in you know, he's not invulnerable. I think there's this has the potential to be a fight of the year type of fight.
What do you think this is?
This is an awesome fight, both in terms of the caliber of the fighters, but also the style matchup as well, and it's kind of suffering from how many big fights it's coming on the on the backs of right now. I think that if this were coming off of two quiet weeks, there would be a whole lot more excitement about this fight, and it deserves that level of excitement, and I hope that as the week goes on, people will start kind of really getting revved up for this fight because this could be a fight of the year. I don't think there's any way that this fight can be boring, and it's just compelling stylistically as well.
I mean, these are two guys that.
Aren't averse to action, but have very different approaches as well. I think that Valdez is probably more traditionally skilled than Navarette is, but Navarette is big, is awkward in his punch delivery. His ability to land long range power shots from weird angles, both coming up and chopping down, that's very interesting. It makes them dangerous at all times. But as you said, looked a little bit vulnerable against Liam Wilson.
As well. He's not as big, and he's not.
Kind of the you know, the zombie that could absorb everything that he was at one twenty two and one twenty six.
That changed the dynamic of this as well.
And I'm interested to see how Valdez will approach this fight.
Is he gonna approach it as the problem or as the problem solver? You know?
Is he gonna wait for Navarette to come at him with, you know, with his vaunted offense, or is he gonna take it to Navarette a little bit and try and work on the inside. I think if he does the latter, For me, if I'm kind of prognosticative, if I'm coming up with the game plan, I think he's better off doing that.
Even though it.
May be tempting for him to say, I'm the boxer, I have these other ways to win. Let me try and fight off the back foot. I think you take it to Navarette and that makes for a better fight, and I think it gives him a better chance of victory too.
I agree with that part of it. I think he's got to make this an inside fight. You keep it on the outside against Navaretta, you become open to those upper cuts that he likes to throw.
Yeah, let him use a little bit of that length.
I get the premise that Valdez is more the boxer than the puncher, but I think he's got to make it a war and I think we're gonna find out pretty early if Valdez has another war in him, you know, because whether it's chakor Steve and where do you broke his jow at Scott Quig years ago. I mean, he's He's been in some tough, tough fights over the years, and at thirty two years.
Old, we'll see if he has a tough fight in him.
But I think this is one of those perfect style matchups that is going to make for a great main event for Top Rank on ESPN this weekend. Last thing I want to talk to you about. Watch the Showtime All Access epilogue from Crawford against Aero Spence Junior. The part I laughed at was you had this is after they showed the footage of Bud Crawford yelling at Jamal Charlo. I just saw it on this clip on Twitter where Jamal Charlow's like, you know, explaining his bona fides to James Harden. You see this like Harden's looking at him. Harden's like he and your weight glass, what belts do you have?
Like?
Harden's just trying to figure out who I know.
Harden knows who Jamel Charlo is because they're both Houston guys. But Harden trying to learn about what exactly is the dynamic between Jamel Charlo and Bud Crawford. Now, Jerml's out there now saying he'll take the fight against Bud, put that on his Instagram recently. I would just caution people to not get too amped up for Jumel against Bud because I'm of the opinion Corey, and I've said this on previous podcast, but I'm of the opinion that Canelo Alvarez is gonna beat Jermale down so badly that it might be a while before we see him fight again. I think Jimmel against Canelo is so one sided, and I think that we are you know, I think we're grossly overrating how faded Canelo is, if he's faded at all, and we are overestimating Jermel Charlo, who was life and death at least one fight in parts of two with Brian Castano. What Brian Castano did to Jimel Charlo, which was walk him down and hunt him. It's exactly what Canelo's gonna do. And Canelo has a better chin than Brian Castanio. Canell's got more power than Brian Castano and people have been I've been seeing this stuff on social media. Canelo's not taking the fight seriously. He's golfing.
That was like three weeks ago.
But I'm not going to get too amped up for Jimmel bud because I don't know what Jermeal is gonna look like after Canelo gets through with him. I think that is going to be a brutal beating for Jamel Charlo, I do. I just think Canelo's got too much left, is too big, is too strong, is too fast, and fights a style which is pressure, getting on the inside, throwing punches, hard punches that it's going to be very difficult for Jamel Charle to compete with that.
Yeah, I'm very much favoring Canelo in that fight as well. I mean, I you know, is he going to dish out such a severe beating that it renders a Crawford fight impossible?
I don't know.
But well, by the way, guys, that one of the things Corey, Like Jamal's out there, some of the things he's saying is that well Roy Jones did it. Well, that's not a great comparison. Like Roy Jones went up and then when he went back down, his career was forever changed. He was not the same guy at light heavyweight after he went up to fight at heavyweight. So there are questions about whether or not Jamel would come all the way back down to one fifty four after a fight with Canal. I think it's more likely he drops back to one sixty, which would take the Bud fight off the table as well.
Yeah, and I would also caution people. I mean, you see this all the time. You know, people will see a clip of a fighter doing something other than working out and they take that as evidence that they're not focused on the fight July in July for a September fight, right in July. I mean, I hate to break it to you, but fighters also have hobbies. And even your most sort of single minded fighter, you know, like Marvin Hagler, would like lock himself in a cabin like Marvin Hagler like did ballet.
Or in camp at one point too.
So you know, like the fighters do stop and Also, what's the difference in you know, Jamal is ringside watching a fight that's.
Not in the gym, like hitting the speedbag either.
Like what you do in your leisure time is what you do in your leisure time, So I wouldn't read too much into that. Listen, Jamel Versusword is a fight that's very compelling to me. If they can make that happen obviously, and they're they're planting the scenes for that, I find it. You know, I haven't had the chance to talk about this with you, but I found it remarkable that in the midst of what Terrence Crawford was doing, that he had the wherewithal to also trash talk Jermelle Charlow that it was so easy for Dremmel or sorry for Terrence Crawford, that he had the time to think about that while he was beating up Terrence Aero Spence, Excuse me, I mean that, like, it just goes to show how extraordinary that performance was, that he was able to do that.
That was mind blowing remarkable.
Well, I guess then the question I would have is if Durmmel is going to fight Canelo on September thirtieth, He's not going to fight again till April May June of twenty twenty four. But Crawford's about to be thirty six years old. Is there a fight out there that makes any kind of sense for him? He's already ruled out a fight against Boots Tennis that if you make Boots Ennis kind of the bar of fights that Terrence Crawford is interested in, there's not any Is there are there any fights above that that makes sense for Bud Crawford at one seven or one fifty four.
I mean, if they could compe I mean, I'm not saying this is a better fight fight than Boots, but like, if they could compel him to face like a Keith Thurman or something like, that's the only other possibility. But I think after we saw what he did to Errol Spence that becomes less compelling. That would be the only other option for me. I think he waits it out, faces Spence probably at one fifty four, and then maybe you do have the Jamel Charlow fight. Regardless of what happens in the Canalo fight, then you can work towards that. But I mean, Crawford is already talking about retirement as well. I don't know how much longer he even feels like doing this. I think that he's really proven his point. Uh and again, like we've talked about this on here before, but he's really felt kind of uh victimized by the boxing machine. And I think that there's a part of Crawford that probably just wants to get this Spence rivalry over with and say like, hey, I did prove my point. What more do I need to do. I don't need to put my body through this any longer. I don't need to give anything more to this sport that he feels just tried to extract from him. So I don't know if the timeline is even a possibility for him to fight your maul. But if he wants to continue fighting, obviously I'm interested in that fight.
Yeah, I don't think.
I just to guess. I don't think the Spence fight happens this year. I'm not sure a Spence rematch happens at all. I think when you have a little bit of time away, I don't know, even at one fifty four, if Spence is gonna want to go back into that type of fight. I think the money would have to be great, and I'm not sure it's even marketable right now. I mean, you know they did reportedly what six fifty seven hundred thousand pay per view buys. You do a rematch, even at a new weight, that number's going down. It's going down significantly because people have seen that show and they know what to expect, or at least what they think they know what to expect in a rematch. I don't hate a Keith Thurman fight. Keith Thurman's been weird lately though, Like, spent the entire week out in Vegas and the only one that called him out was Claressa Shields. Then I see this video of him on a plane.
I don't know if you saw this.
This is on twenty ten yea, but he's on a plane and he's continuing to talk about himself the third person, Like he's arguing with a passenger about what has happened in his career. He claims he's still undefeated, has a loss, but is undefeated against Manny Pack. Now, I don't really understand all that lodge you guys in Fostins, February of twenty twenty two.
I don't know. I don't know.
That's not a competitive fight to me either, but I guess you could sell it because Keith Thurman's the other PBC welterweight that Terrence Crawford is long wanted a shot at and didn't get a shot at. But Boots Tennis is obviously off the table. Alexis Rocha off the table, amanastanionis off the table. I would like to see Crawford move up though, and like, let these guys get the belts and let these guys fight each other. If he's not going to defend these titles against the manes, whether it's Dandiones, the WBA, roach a, WBO, Boots for the IBF. I think the WBC has one. Yeah, I know Thurman is there, but I think he's gonna fight at one fifty four. Let these younger guys fight it out and try to get some unified title fights at one forty seven. Go up to one fifty four, start the campaign there. Maybe fight Keith Thurman, then see what happens. Like maybe Spence wants to do the fight in the summer of twenty twenty four. Maybe Jamal Charlow fares better than I think he will against Canelo Alfrest, He's ready to go in the spring or summer of twenty twenty four. I just think, let these titles go. You know, you don't want to defend it. You want to fight these guys you're supposed to fight him against. At least one of them is probably gonna be gone. Let's say, best case scenario, you get Spence Crawt in December, one of those belts is gonna be out of your hands. By then, somebody's gonna take it in a sanction, by is gonna take it away in a mandatory situation, whether it's the IBF or WBO, who knows. So just let them all go. Go to one fifty four, fight someone there, and then see if in the summ or the fall of twenty twenty four, if one of those other big names are available. Yeah.
And I think from a physical perspective, it's interesting seeing Crawford move up as well, because one of the many things that was fascinating and impressive about his performance against Daryl Spence is that he also physically bullied a guy who I think many people thought, and justifiably so, was the physically strongest high level welterweight in the world. You know, we saw Crawford and we all know about his wrestling background, get to the inside with Spence and maneuver him wherever he wanted him to and pushed him off, And that was a key moment in the second round or the third round, you saw him just shove Errol Spence back. He was able to do that against Darrel Spence, so I'm interested to see, well, like, can you do that against some one hundred and fifty four pounders as well. I think that obviously his skills translate moving up, but especially after seeing him against Daryl Spence, I think that his physical strength does also.
Yeah, we saw baw Mac Brian McIntyre say something that I've long believed in that Spence and PBC Crawford to grow into that welterweight body, and I think there is truth to that. I think if Spencer fought Crawford five years ago, when Crawford was just coming up from one forty and was not a full fledged one forty seven, maybe the outcome would have been different. But now with Crawford looking every bit as strong and stronger as you point out as as Spence, it just wasn't a fair fight. And I think regardless of whether it's at one fifty four or seven again. It's it's just not gonna be competitive. I don't need to see that rematch again. I rather see Crawford fight someone else at one hundred and fifty four pounds. All right, check out Corey Erdman on Friday at Overtime Arena live on his own. Who's the main event of this Friday show?
We got Albert Bell and presco khar Kosha.
Albert Bell still hunting for his title opportunities, so hoping he gets, you know, some exposure and maybe get some of those big names. Obviously, Bell want to be maybe a little bit more exciting than he has been in the past. And with the overtime rules there's knockout bonuses if you score a knockout in the first of the last round. Fights are a little bit more conden. We hope that maybe he'll be compelled to do that, So tune in and check it out.
All right, check out Corey on Friday, and when we come back, my conversation with Eddie Hearn. All right, Eddie Hearn, Mattroom Boxing. Matchroom Boxing USA has got to show this weekend over in the uk O two Arena. Anthony Joshua will be in action, but he will not be facing Dillion White as planned. Dillion White out of that fight after an adverse finding on his most recent VODA test Robert Helenius, former title challenger. He is back in or he is in as the opposer. Eddy, Let's just start from you know, when you found out about the adverse finding for Dillion White to coming to a decision to inserting Robert Helenius as the opponent.
So I found out I was actually on East Coast time, but it came through in the early hours of Saturday morning, UK times. Just total shock, disbelief, None of it makes sense, but it happened. And you know, obviously we went through this situation with Connor Ben. We learned a lot from that situation. The circumstances were very different as well. This was not a co promotion as well, and waited for AJ to wake up on Saturday morning, spoke to him and obviously we had no choice and he wanted to move forward with another opponent. And then the search begins. You know, probably thirty or forty applications, ninety nine percent of them a complete waste of time, but you have to go through them. You have to find someone most important that's credible enough, but someone who you know legitimately you can get a deal done with at pace, because if you start wasting three, four or five hours on four or five different guys, before you know it, the whole show's fallen through. And actually, before Dillian White accepted this deal, we had an agreement with actually Luis Decubis for the fight with Robert Hallenius, and he was one of the guys that we were thinking about selecting. Obviously we ended up fighting Dillian White. And when this news broke, Robert Halanius' lawyer said, listen, we're two hours away from going into the rin in an eight round comeback fight. If we get through, okay, we'd love the AJ fight next week. And obviously knocked this guy out in three rounds. They sent me a video straight after and the negotiations ensued, and he was the guy we went for. Credible compunch, big, big guy. We know he lost by knockout to Wilder, but that right hand would have knocked most people out. A couple of good wins on Fox against Koanaki, you know, six six days to go, very credible.
Why was someone like Philip Perkovic not credible in your mind? I've heard from people around him that he would have taken the fight, but was not asked.
Everybody who wanted the fight came forward. Philip Hergovic never came forward for the fight. It wasn't even that, you know, more than credible by the way, I mean, a very tough fight. I mean I don't really like the idea again in with Hergovic on six days notice, and I don't think they really liked the idea again, and with Joshua on six weeks notice. If I'm really honest, he's been training eight weeks for a Southport in Dempsey McKean probably had no orthodox sparring aj you know, was training for a different style. He wasn't even really mentioned Hergovic. He's also got his shot at the world title against Usik next. Does he want to put that on the line against Ag I don't know, but no, there was no conversations actually with Hergovic and his team didn't reach out. And you know, we know what he's been training for and that was decided that's next. And also Chris as well, A part of me wants to keep that undercard together. It's a bit like Jerald Washington. You know, he put his name forward as well. I just felt that he's been a little bit inactive. He's coming off a couple of defeats, but also wanting to fight that Derek's oral on the card. So yeah, Hellnius got the pick.
I'm assuming you know what it is. Dillion Wight tested positive for.
There's some confidentiality issues that you can't be.
Specific about it.
But if I can put the question this way, with Dillion wit in your mind, is this a Billy Joe Sanders type of situation or is it closer to a Jerell Miller type of situation?
I mean I haven't honestly, because of the speed we've that to move, I haven't really had an opportunity to even digest that information and go through it. You know, we don't represent Dillion White, but we have worked with him for a number of years. It surprised me greatly, and you know, he's got a huge fight on his hands now. I think one of the problems with the testing process is in this situation, there's no one really to be accountable to. As we know, Varada is a reporting agency that we employ to give the teams the information on a very strict and stringent testing program. But he's going to have to try and clear his name now. But who with that's his bigger issue. And you know, regarding the tests and the substance and all that kind of stuff, obviously you know he's going to fight his own fight. A lot of that stuff is confidential. I'm sure it will be made apparent, but I haven't really looked into it in great depth other than just trying to sort out Saturday night and making sure Anti Joshua can get in the ring after twelve weeks of hard work and genuinely looking fantastic.
Yeah, you've addressed this over in the UK a couple of times on Tuesday, but I want to ask you for this audience about you know you Bank Ben was a protracted situation where you didn't cancel that fight right away. That fight wasn't canceled right away. This fight between Dillian and AJ was called off right away. What is the difference between the two.
I think firstly, every test results, every substance is He's very different. Also, that event was a co promotion U Bank Ben and when we spoke to our co promoters who represented Chris Eubank and gave them the information of the very trace amounts within the tests and all the other tests that he passed around it. They wanted to take their own medical advice and they didn't want to cancel the fight. We then put it in the hands of the British Boxing Border Control to make their decision. And also we learned a lot from that process. I mean, we definitely made mistakes and we wanted to act swiftly this time around. But also this fight is a pure promotion from Mattram. We had the opportunity to share those results with Anthony Josher and his team, who decided that absolutely they didn't want to fight Dillian White. With one week to go, there was no chance of any appeal process, which was different in the Connor event situation as well, so we had to act. We had to act more swiftly, but we definitely learned a lot from the Connaban situation and I think we handled it in the right manner.
There was a lot of buzz going into this flight. You know, both these guys don't like each other. At press conferences, you had face offs. In your mind. Is this fight now gone forever?
Yeah? I think so, you know, I think, you know, I don't know what Dillion's going to do or how he's going to go about this situation. But it's a huge, huge fight on his hands. You know, We've been a year over a year in the process with Connor Ben and he's now you know, been reinstated in the WBC rankings, He's had this suspension lifted and cleared by UKADA and we're just coming out the other side of it, you know, twelve thirteen months on. So you can imagine Dillian White has to go through a similar process with a different set of results and analysis that we've seen. And at that age, you know, is that process that you can come through the other side of. We wish him all the best, and again I was surprised, you know, and you want to You always believe and you want to believe in those people, and it's not something I would expect from him, knowing the meticulous way that he goes about his work and how careful he is after previous incidents that he was exonerated four. But you also can't ignore it and it has to be dealt with.
One of the reasons you wanted to get a fight for Aja on August twelfth was because you want him back in the ring. You're hoping to make a fight with Deontay Wilder in the next four or five months.
We know those deals are tricky with the Saudis.
How confident are you that a Wilder fight is going to materialize sometime either in December of this year or the first quarter of twenty twenty four.
I mean, we can only do what we can do from outside, which is we've told Skills Challenge Saudi Arabia we're in for that fight. We will fight Deontay wild and next we'll do it in December or January, no problem. And that was one of the reasons that he was so adamant in fighting this Saturday, because if you don't fight this Saturday, you have three or four weeks off, then you go back to camp, you end up fighting in November December. The Wilder fight's gone. You know, he's also trained so hard in this camp. He's done so much great work with Derek James. He feels tremendous and he wants to showcase that. So but at the same time, you know, we remember the late replacement of Andy Ruiz last time, this same incident happened with Jerrell Miller, and we've got to be on the a game on Saturday night because we can't afford to lose this fight.
I assume you didn't consider Jerrell Miller as a replacement.
No, I mean, you know, I have my own thoughts on whether he should get an opportunity like that again, and putting that to the side, there is absolutely no way I would never I would ever entertain a fight with Jurel Miller without him being part of an extringent VARDA testing program that we employ in all the big fights.
All right, a couple things before I let you go, because there is us interest in some things with match Room right now. We saw Amanda Serrano get a win over Heather Hardy this past weekend. Alicia Bombgardner, your fighter, was part of the broadcast team for that fight. She mentioned that she has one fight left on her Matchroom deal. There's also the potential, I guess, for a mandatory being called for one of one hundred and thirty pound titles. Clearly, the big fight for bomb Gardner is against Amanda Serrano, and I'm guessing a fight against Choi is not big business for you. How do you approach Alicia Bombgardner? Are you planning on resigning her? I mean do you want to make the Serrano fight. What's next there? Oh?
Yeah, absolutely want to re sign Alicia baum Gardner. I mean, you know, she's We've had a great run with her. We helped her find a way to undisputed, and she's done a tremendous Joe. I think she's a star. We're in talks to extend that contract right now. The fights for her are Amanda Serano, Katie Taylor, Chantel Cameron. You know, we've got all the undisaputy champions. Obviously Amanda's with most valuable promotions, but you know, we've made a big investment in women's boxing. We do all the major female fights, and Alicia is going to be in the biggest fights in the school. So yeah, we hope to conclude that we would love to make Amanda Srhan ownings love to honestly Serrano against Baumgarden. He's a brilliant fight. Two tremendous fighters, two tremendous undispauty champions. But at the same time, I think Amanda Serrano would have one eye on Taylor Cameron, and so with Alicia. But you know, I think it's time now for Alicia to take the biggest fights in the sport.
Last thing for you is it's been all quiet on the Edgar Berlanga Himimongia front. You know how much I love that fight, Eddie. You know how much I advocate for that fight over here? Has there been any movements when it comes to making a fight between Mungia who's represented by Golden Boy, and of course Berlanga, who is your fighter.
Yeah, I mean the instructions from the owne are very clear to both sides. We don't want any other fight for Balanga or Mungea than them fighting each other next, and that's the instruction of our broadcaster. We should try and make that happen. You know. Of course, both fighters and their representatives are entitled to get the best possible that deal they can for that fight. But if we can't make Balanger against Mungia, and we can't get those fighters in the fight, what are we in the sport for?
You know?
I ask myself, Edgar, can you beat heim In Mungea? He believes, yes, I can. I believe it's a fifty to fifty fight. Mungea thinks he can win. It's Mexico against Puerto Rico. It's the kind of fight that's going to break you out into a massive start. Like if Mungia fights Balanga, I cannot see how Canelo Alvarez cannot fight the winner of that fight, right, I mean, it's just such a natural fight. So you're going to put yourself. So the question is do you want to roll the dice? Unfortunately in boxing some times trainers or advisors don't want to roll the dice. Well, guess what, I want to roll it. And I believe in our man and I want to see a Gablander in a massive fight that he can win, so I'll be doing everything I can. You know, Look, it's no secret the two fights that are top of the agenda right now. He's Devin Haney against Regis Progra and Heimi Mungear against a Gablanger, two brilliant fights to add to the design schedule, and we're doing everything we can to make both.
Of them, and that Hani Progre faith closer.
I mean, I spoke to Devin last night. Regis is in for that fight. We tye up Devin Haney on different bits and pieces, but the main thing now is to establish the date and the venue. You know, we're looking at Vegas, Atlanta, maybe the Bay Area as well, but I'm almost certain you'll see Regius program against Devin Haney next.
All right, Edny, big second half of the year for you, big week for you as well.
I appreciate the time, man, No, it's a busy day.
No worries, mate.
Cheers.
That's it for this week's episode. Thanks to Corey Erdman and Eddie Hearn for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever
You download podcasts, and I'll see you next week.
