Boxing with Chris MannixBoxing with Chris Mannix - Another Mega Card in Saudi
Joining Mannix this week is longtime boxing writer Dan Rafael. Mannix and Rafael discuss a lackluster performance from Jared Anderson last weekend, the official announcement of Artur Beterbiev vs. Dmitry Bivol, a fantastic Matchroom vs. Queensbury 5 x 5, Boots Ennis signing with Matchroom, more. Later, Devin Haney on his beef with Ryan Garcia, why it's become personal and more. #Volume #Herd
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Here's Chris Mannix.
And we are back boxing with Chris Mannix, part of the Volume Sports podcast network. As always, I want to welcome in everyone that is listening on the podcast speed. If you are not a subscriber, get over to the box of Chris Mattics feed, hit that subscribe button. Make sure you get this pod in your feed every single week. And it is going to be a busy week on the podcast. The first show of the week and I'm thinking there are going to be as many as three shows this week. That's my thinking right now. It's a huge week in boxing. You've got the Ryan Garcia Devin Hainey fight finally happening Saturday night Barclay Center on Dezonne. That's just a massive event and that's worthy of talking about a few times this week.
So we've got a.
Show today, We're going to have another show before the fight, and most likely I'm going to tape a third show after the fight, a recap show after the fight. So you want to be a subscriber to get into that feed and make sure you get all three of those likely shows. This week, We've got a good one today. Dan Rayfield, the longtime boxing writer covered box for the USA Today ESPN now has his own substack. We run through some of the news of the week from a lackluster fight featuring Jared Anderson this past weekend.
We've got some.
News in Saudi Arabia. The mattch Room versus Queensburry five on five is set. It is headlined by the Dimitri bevil Archer Better bif fight. That's right, the massive fight at one seventy five is going to take place June first in Saudi arabi We also talk about the Boots Ennis signing with Mattroom that happened late last week. We didn't get into it, but that's a big signing for Mattroom and a big opportunity for Boots Ennis to stay busy in twenty twenty four and beyond. So a good conversation with Dan Rayfield. A little bit later on Devin Haney, the former undisputed one hundred and thirty five pound champion now one hundred and forty pound title old.
He joins me to.
Talk about the beef with Ryan Garcia, like where does it stem from? Why has it gotten so nasty over the last couple of months, and what is Devon's plan for this fight with Ryan Garcia? Is going into it as a pretty significant favorite, and that's partly due to the fact that Ryan Garcia has behaved erratically during this training camp. But Devon's got to be wary of that power of Ryan Garcia because that left hand and can erase you in an instant. I think Bill Haney, the father of Devin Haney, calls it Ryan's good night, Irene, and that is a apt descriptor of it, because he's put a lot of guys down with that left hook. And if Devin isn't on his toes and on his game, canet clip with it as well. So stick around for that good conversation with Devin Haney. All right, when we come back, my conversation with Dan Rayfield. All right, Dan Rayfield is back, longtime boxing journalist. He's got a terrific newsletter on substack called fight Freaks Unite. Can subscribe there or via any of Dan's social media channels. Dan We've got a lot to get into on the show this week, but we have to start by looking back at whatever that was Jared Anderson and Riad Murray this past weekend, because that was I mean, I'm not a big UFC guy, but I found myself paying the eighty bucks or whatever it was for UFC three hundred when I was watching that debacle take place in the ring. Just a recap, Jared Anderson beats Rihod Mercy Murray by wide decision. Anderson was one hundred and twenty eight of six hundred and sixty two punches thrown. That's nineteen percent connect raat Riad Murray was thirty four of one forty four, so landed thirty four punches in that entire fight.
Fight.
The one hundred and forty four punches thrown for Mary was the third fewest in a ten round fight in copy box history. So his only goal coming into this fight was not to get knocked out, so he succeeded in that. But I guess the question is, with the focus on Jared Anderson and the belief among some people that he is the next big thing in the heavyweight division, watching that fight, how much did you put on Jared Anderson.
I think it was mostly Mary's fault. I mean, the punch stat is not the end'll be all, but that serves as a good guy. And when you throw that few punches, I have to believe it's somewhat accurate. It's not that hard to count. Frankly, and I mean, we could think of the action fighters that we've seen through the years, where there are certain fights where you may have seen a guy land thirty four of one hundred and forty four in a single round, much less do that for the entire fight. So I placed most of the blame on Mary because he just put his hands up at the side of his head, He slid along the ropes, he did not engage whatsoever. I don't know if he ever threw like a legitimate combination the entire fight. So he definitely has to take some of the blame. And as you mentioned in the Jared Coffy Box statistical breakdown, he was busy. He threw a lot of punches. Six hundred plus punches for a heavyweight and ten round fights a pretty good pace. I can't argue with that. You know, he didn't maybe land as many shots as he would have liked it only at nineteen percent, But again, part of that was because the opponent was so defensive minded that if all you're focusing on is the defense, can be hard to crack that nut, so to speak. So I guess if I had to spread out the blame quote unquote, I would probably say it's like eighty five percent on Mary and you know, fifteen percent on Jared, only because you'd like to see Jared knowing that there's nothing coming back to maybe press the action a little bit. But again, if you want every single round and you're not even breaking a sweat and you've got the guy completely under control, it's hard to get mad at the guy for not doing what he typically does because even if you take a look at the rest of his fights, he mostly has knockouts. So the odd fight that goes at ten round distance with a guy that's so ultra negative, can't really get too mad about it, you know. And I know that even though the fights you know, was terrible. I know some of the people that are, you know, with part of that Jared Anderson team, they're not unhappy that he got in the ten rounds. And it's good sometimes for a younger fighter to have some element of that frustration in a fight before you step up to the big time. So you know, I don't, I can't. I blame him a little bit, but this is all on rihad Mary. I make the point that they should ship him back and make TSA not allow him back into the United States.
I mean, certainly not for a fight, because imagine showing up for a big event like that, headlining event like that, and just fighting not to get knocked out. Not that it's it's unique per se, but you know that's not how you I.
Was extreme though, that's the problem, and we've seen yeah, but point where he literally won't throw a punch.
Yeah, yeah, that was a bit I grew through on the Anderson part, where like if a guy's not given you anything, maybe you just go in there and try to take his head off at some point. Never really did that, you know, during that fight. That's probably the only critique I have.
And just say one other thing about Anderson. I'm not I don't need to like defend him anything like that. I do suspect that there was you know, there has been some distractions in his world because he's there on the on the on the card Saturday Night fighting in a boxing match, and it's got to be on his mind to some degree that he's going to court on Monday to appear before the judge in the in the most recent legal case he has gone for him. So if there's some distractions, I mean, it's understandable. I'm not saying I condone his activities and his ill behavior. Let's say, but I understand that life happens, and you're not always going to be at your absolute best every day when you go into work. And even at that, he still won every single round. And by the way, let's just say, for the for the record, here you had two judges that squarted a clean shutout, which was obvious. I scored a clean shutout, and you had one judge, David Sutherland, who actually gave the tenth round to read Mary, which I find to be detestable because it will be lost in history because pople just look, Oh, I was a close fight, you know, as a one sided fight, which it was. But I just find it no possible way you could even give the guy one round at all. Not acceptable.
I agree, I agree.
I there was no rounds he won, not statistically, not to the eyeball test. It didn't look like he won anything at all. Andrews is the prospect here, right, and we're all looking at him wondering if he is going to be the next US heavyweight champion. Now, top rank is not going to put any pressure on him in the near future, not that they could anyway. The heavyweight belts are likely going to be tied up for the rest of the calendar year. But there's a nominal plan in place to have Anderson in bigger fights in twenty twenty five and potentially world championship fights in twenty twenty six. Is that the plan that makes the most sense in your mind for Jared Anderson? Do you still think he's you know, capable of being that next heavyweight champion.
I mean, obviously I love the skills that the man has. He's obviously got the size and the power. I'm not sure he's got the the perfect mentality to be the heavyweight Shavean of the world. And I'm not like a hater or anything like that, but you know, you see a guy on the way up, you look at the just the raw skills, you see the way he performs. What's concerned about Anderson is his utter contempt for the sport. It seems that he doesn't ever take an opportunity to not tell you how much he doesn't like boxing. And if you're gonna be the absolute best and it reached the pinnacle, I feel like, no matter what your profession is, you could be you know, whatever your job is, If you're going to be the best at it, whatever it is, you have to have somewhere in the recess of your mind and your heart a love for it, or at least an enjoyment or a like I don't know, you could be a freaking you know, cleaning up Messa's or you know, a janitor. You got to at least take some pride in that. So if he is telling you all the time how much he doesn't like it and he only does it for the money, you know, chickens come home through set point at some point, so that that's getting me pause. That sort of attitude. You combine that with the problems he's at outside the ring. I hope he gets that under control, and it's you know what, we'll we'll chalk it up to, you know, youthful indiscretion. He is only twenty four, you know, he's still a grown man. But you know, it's still on the younger side of things. He's got plenty of growing to do, both as a human being and as a as a professional fighter. So I hope the best for him. I picked him as the prospect of the year a few years ago. He's got all the skills and the tools you want to see. Now it's just a matter can he harness it in terms of the top ranked plan. Look, you said that the titles are tied up for the time being. There's no obvious pathway through that belt. Obviously, you know they can move him to become a mandatory at some point, but even that was take while to occur if you have unified belts, because they use the rotation system and there's a lot of guys ahead of him in line at the moment. I think what they need to do was just, you know, keep him busy and try to find the best possible opponus that they can, and you know, continue to build his record, his profile, his confidence, whatever elements you think he needs to work on, and when he's ready, he'll be ready. And you go and you find the biggest and the best way you can if it have to be brutal, terrific, If not, you know, you got to wait your turn.
Yeah, the mentality is what needs to be monitor here. He's someone that has been very vocal about how he doesn't love boxing. He's just in it for the money. He said he wants to retire as early as twenty seven, which is only about two and a half three years away. You've got to keep an eye on that because when he steps up in competition, he's going to have to go.
Through some fires here.
You know, whether it's at the World Championship level or a cut below it, You're gonna have to see what this guy's made of. And you know, guys like Marhi and even Charles Martin and some of the other guys he's faced over the last couple of years, they're not going to test that metal in the same way guys like herkiv Jaranthony Joshua or even Fury or Usik will will ultimately do. So that that's what I'm watching most closely with with Jared Anderson. All Right, So on Monday, we had the formal announcement of the next Mega Card in Saudi Arabia on June first. The show will be headlined by the light heavyweight unification fight between archer Betterbiev and Dmitri b Beevill, a fight that I don't believe would have ever happened if the Saudis didn't get involved, So give them credit for stepping up and doing that. Also part of that card is the Matchroom versus Queensbury five on five, the heavily anticipated in the UK for sure, five on five between Matchroom and Queensberry. Some good fights on that card. You've got Deontay Wilder against jay Lee Jeong. You got Raymond Ford taking on Nick Ball. I think that's going to be a pretty good fight. Let's start though, with Beevil against Better beev Dan. What we've seen of Beevil and Better beev over the last year. Does that make you right now lean one way or the other going into this fight or is this a true kind of fifty to fifty coin flip fight.
First of all, it's a great fight. I mean that's the main thing. It is. Literally, if you were to write down your list of you know, a handful of the fights that you most wanted to see in boxing, I believe this would be or should be anyway on anybody's top you know list of the first you know, two or three fights that spring to their mind. Maybe number one. To be honest, as far as you know which way you might lean having witnessed their recent fights, it is a fifty to fifty kind of fight. There's reasons to pick both fighters. A lot of people will look at better be Off and say, yeah, he's got tremendous punching power. He's obviously talented, he's skilled. He's a two time Olympian, but he ain't getting any younger. I mean he's getting a bit older now. He's taken some shots. And in terms of bevol you know, he is a tremendous technical boxer, not a big puncher at all. In terms of the certainly not compared to the better Be It was maybe the best one punch guy, you know, guy that breaks you down anyway, Maybe not for one punch, but in terms of just punch or overall in the whole sport. And you know, is it the puncher versus the skills of people or the skills to how box of bet or BV And you know, I mean Biovoll can still crack a little bit the same way. You know, better Be a certainly capable of boxing to a degree. So I just think this is a fantastic matchup, and I'm part press of the moment to give any kind of definitive thought about who actually wins the fight. I got, you know, plenty of time to make that pick down the road, but I'm thrilled that the fights happening. I agree with you one thousand percent that if there is no Saudi Arabian money tobacco fight like this, it wouldn't happen because the two fighters had certain expectations for what they wanted to make and the money, frankly, just did not exist. Because neither of these two guys, as great a fighters as they are as they are, don't have big fan bases. They don't they can't go fight where they're from and draw a crowd because of a lot of different reasons, and so you have to find somebody that's willing to spend the money. There's no big outlet that's going to be a huge license fee they'd pay millions of dollars, just not at the level of two guys want to risk what they uh what they're what they're gambling on. So you know, when you have the folks at Sardi Arabia that have you know, essentially an endless amount of money to spend on you know, whatever Turkey al Sheet wants to buy, you know, any fight that he wants, If he wants to fight, he can pay for it. I mean, it's it's as simple as that. And and and he made the decision and work with his partners, so and you know, obviously he's done a lot of business with Matchroom and and Queensberry, and obviously with top rank they would have been able to do this deal. It's a it's a beautiful thing. How long is up? I don't know.
It's gotta be one of the biggest light heavyweight fights in boxing history. I don't know where it ranks on that list, but it's got to be up there on that list. Two undefeated guys with this kind of power, this kind of skill set, it's up there. And I wouldn't frame it as the boxer versus the brawler because we both know Better BV is not just a brawler. There is a matter, yeah, boxer versus the punch. Although when I watched Better BV, there is there's a lot of technique to what he does, right, Like, there's there's a skill level to what he's doing. He just finishes it off with blunt force trauma. That's it's kind of what he's become known for. My question, coming into this fight, you mentioned that Beevil's got some pop. He has not had a knockout since twenty seventeen, and it's not like every fight he's been in has been against some granite chinned contender. He has gone the distance with some rather ordinary guys. So I'll put that question to you, like, does to beat Better Beev? It feels like at some point you've got to make him respect you. You've got to keep him just from being on you for twelve rounds. Does Beevil have that kind of power? Does he need that kind of power to beat a guy like better Viev?
I don't know if he needs the power. What he needs is he needs the accuracy. He needs to just be able to place his punches to at least let Better be of know. Okay, this guy is real. He may not be able to knock down with one shot, but he can score points with those punches. I mean, but obviously for people to win the fight, it's going to be more a box this guy. You're not gonna go brawl with Better VF. That's stupid. That doesn't make any sense. You may not refer to them as a brawler, but if you had to compare the two, which one is more of a brawler than a kind of boxer, you would certainly take better VIM in that respect. My concern though, is, you know better BV has been uh, he's been cut a number of times. Beobles a very actor and sharp puncher, you know, so there's a lot of factors when you think about how that can go. I just think this is one of those kind of fights where you mentioned at the beginning of the conversation about this, you know, is it a points to the kind of fight, And at least at the moment I see this, as you know, I haven't look to see actually what the official odds are. They just formally announced the fight on Monday, but I have to believe they're awfully, awfully closer will be anyway, and one of those fights where I have no bested interest. So you just sit back and enjoy what I think is a great matchup at historical kind of matchup. And I mean I think both these guys are on Hall of Fame trajectories at this point, and you need these types of fights against your natural rival to prove your metal, and this is that fight for both of these guys. I mean, I know, Bioble has to win over Canelo, and he's got some other outstanding victories also better Beev has gotten a lot of quality wins and unified titles and all that. But when you really looked down at the at the resumes and this is you know, I'll just put Canelo to the side for a minute, because obviously he's a huge name, but he was coming up to a new weight class. This is this is the natural fight. This is like, these are the last men standing, if you will, in the light heavyweight division. They've got all the belts, They've had them for quite a while. It's not like one guy just happened into a belt and now they're going to, you know, go for the biggest fight possible. The Bible has been defending and defending for years and and Bople I think one is first. You know, he won his first title several years ago, and it took them all the time to collect the other two belts that he put together. But this is, this is what we've all waited for. This is the summit meeting in this weight class, and it's it's gonna be great.
You know, when when I'm evaluating, you know, who I favor, who I bet on in a particular fight, I often look at, you know, the most recent fights, and you look at the two most recent perform ormances by better In Bevil, and they both kind of go in different directions. Right Like two fights ago for Bevil, I was wildly impressed what he did with Zerdo Ramirez, a win that has aged even better given what Zerto just did at cruiserweight to become a champion there. His most recent fight on the day of reckoning card not all that impressed with Lindon. Arthur is a fine fighter, but I thought Beevie missed opportunities to get him out of there. And I just didn't leave that fight feeling really excited about Bevil being.
At the top of his game flipping it around.
And two fights ago for Archer better Biev when he was, you know, going shot for shot with Anthony Yard at times was hurt in that fight. I wondered if maybe has Archer Bettterbriev missed his opportunity to fight this fight at his prime, Maybe he's lost a step. Fast forward to Callum Smith, and look, Callum Smith is probably never going to be as good as the sum of his parts. He's always kind of looks better maybe than he actually is. But the way that Better BV just systematically beat down the knocked out Callum Smith was really impressive.
So I don't know.
I don't know which fighter has momentum.
They both have good resumes, they both have a lot of good wins on their record. They've both done what they're supposed to do. You know, styles do make fights. It's the oldest saying in the book. Obviously, the yard fight with with with Better BV was a fantastic fight, but that was sort of it was destined to be that kind of shootout. Having watched both of these guys fight for any period of time, you know that that was sort of the fight that was gonna unfold. You didn't know what round or you know, all the back and forth, but in the end it was still a clear victory because he did to get the knockout. So well, I agree with you. You look at what they've done in the recent fights. I try to try not to get too hung up on one specific performance because if you did, you drive yourself crazy. I look at maybe the more recent body of work and as an overall, over the last few fights, they both looked great, with a couple of fights where they maybe didn't look great. But again, you know, in the business of boxing and the sport of boxing, you're not going to be perfect every single night. It just not like that, and you know they keep winning. I wouldn't call the yard performance by Better be a quote unquote off night in the same way I wouldn't say it was an off night for Dimitri Biople against lynd and Arthur. Uh, there's nothing wrong with what he did. He won, but basically every single round of the fight, scored a ton of points and kind of was having fun in there. And actually, if you really examined it, there was a couple of times in that fight where he seemed like he was close to the stop, but you just couldn't finish it off. I mean, I don't know you Again, It's sort of like we were talking about with Jared Anderson. You know, in the fight between Dmitri Bioble and Lyndon Arthur, the endres quote was one twenty to one oh seven on three cards. What's there to complain about? I've never been one to hold the lack of a knockout against the guy.
Yeah.
Completely dominant performance, that's for sure. So we've got plenty of time to talk about the five on five in the weeks ahead. But as you look at these five matchups, which are Deontay Wilder against Jaylee Jeong yet Herkovic going up against Danny Dubaugh, Ray fo facing Nick Ball, Richards versus Hutchinson, Williams versus Shiraz, which one of these gets you most excited.
Well, that's a great question. I hadn't really thought about that. I'll say this just in terms of the overall fatality, especially when you include the main event, because obviously this could be its own card. I mean, it's just sure they're doing this is so unusual. I was thinking to myself because somebody else asked me about this like that, you know, this is a great show. It reminds me of back in the in like the in the mid nineties when Don King was doing the big cards and there was just one great fight after another on paper. Anyway, you never know how they're gonna work that in the ring, But at least going in you were excited because there was a lot of interesting adviights. I think this and I've thought about this a lot, so I'm not not being emotional about it. I'm not trying to hype it up. I'm just being real. I think this is literally the best overall pay per view or big mega card if you will, since those days of the big Don King cards in the mid nineties. I don't really and there's been a lot of good paper cards. I'm not knocking the other promoters. There's been a bunch of them with a great Man event and you know, maybe one or two other fights, but this is like literally every single fight on this card has I'm interested in. I mean, if Craig Richards, you know, a solid veteran former contender or former title challenger still what I would consider somewhat of a contender against an excellent up and coming fighter like Hutchinson. If that's the weakest card, which you know, weakest fight on the card, which it is, but I'm not I still like the matchup. So if that's the worst, it's that's freaking tremendous because I love Williams and Shiraz. That's a fantastic by two younger, undefeated middleweights who can stamp themselves as the future of the weight class in a division that's pretty uh on the on the you know, on the bottom right now, it's certainly one of the weaker divisions, but these are the two it's the sort of shining lights of the up and coming guys. So this definitely gives it some pop. Ray Ford, nick Ball, I think is going to be a fantastic fight. Love to fight. Ray Ford was was had a dramatic and exciting victory when he won the belt against Comotov in a tremendous fight. Uh nick Ball, We've seen him now for several fights in a row. Always comes in like a little spark bug, just never stops punching in just a bunfighter to watch. Tremendous battle Pergovich and Duoi, both guys who've shown some vulnerability but also some outstanding qualities. Also very quality heavyweight fight. Now, when they announced it, as you know, Chris, they announced it's just a twelve round heavyweight fight. But you and I both know that come May nineteenth, post Undisputed Theory versus Usik, between then and June first, the title of the IVF will become vacant. This fight will become for the vacant IVF title, like ninety nine percent chance that will be the case, So that will upgrade a level of that matchup. And Wilder is Jang, that's like, you know, yeah, they're coming off losses, but I mean, good lord, it's like the right hand of Deontay against the left hand of Jang. Whoever's gonna land first is probably gonna win by a knockout. And it's a must win for both these guys that are sort of in the old they're older, they're you know, obviously in the twilight of their career, and it's a it's a career savior for wherever wins this fight. So you say, which fight do I like the best? Good lord, I don't know which one do you like the best? I'll turn interviewer this time, which one do you like them?
I tell you I've got to lean towards Wilder and Jang just because it is bombs away and it really is win or go home for both these guys. When we kind of say that a lot when it comes to boxing, and it rarely ever is but the pathway back for either one of them if they absorb a second straight loss on this level. It's going to be our du wish and it's not going to be particularly lucrative. I would imagine, you know, if they're coming off double back to back loss. So that's the one that appeals to me the most. But I'm with you. Not only are the fights on the quote unquote undercard relevant, but they're also really well matched, right like them like that that Amma Williams fight.
Look at it.
Two guys that can bang and two guys that believe they belong on a championship level, and the winner will take that big step forward to the championship level. I would have loved it if nick Ball could have completed the comeback against ray Vargus to make this a title unification fight against ray Ford. But I love the style right nick Ball does not stop coming in ray Ford, even though he took the fight to uh to automack there, autoback there. He is more boxer than brawler in that sense, So you're gonna get a good style matchup out of that one.
Uh. I lean towards the heavyweights, the top of the bill heavyweights, But.
I want to say something, Glue.
You talk about the wilder in the in the in the Jang fight. The ending could be the most explosive on the car. Yeah, I think getting there though might not be because I don't think it's gonna be a great fight in terms of the all out action because they're both so uh you know, they just they're looking for the one shot. They don't throw a lot of other punches. Besides that, not a lot of combinations, not a lot of activity, So round for round, you know it by a minute. I'm not sure it's a super exciting fight, but there'll be a lot of tension because of the notion that either guy can get the fight over with with literally one punch, like I said, either the right hand from Deontay or the left hand from Jang. So while I'm anticipating that fight just in terms of the overall action, and it's also you know, very meaningful as well, but in terms of what could be the best action you know, sustain over the long course of a fight that goes, you know, several rounds or perhaps even deeper into the fight, I think you gotta look at, like you said, either the Ford nick Ball fight or the William Sharon's fight. Those two guys have been had some interesting matchups. I love that matchup. I love the fact that both these guys, who are still on the younger end of things, you know, are risking their undefeated wreck is not a world championship fight, at least not at the moment. It's not a world title eliminator. They're just they're put it out there. I mean, obviously they're being very well paid, I am sure, because of the lucrative aspect of fighting on these cards in Saudi Arabia. But you know, I take my hat to both those guys to take this kind of match up at this stage of their careers. There they're still on the upswing, and and the loser I think will be able to absorb the loss and move on with Dirk. Yeah, bottom line, Chris, just an awesome card. And I don't I know, I'm not kissing anybody's we are in. I just truly believe that. When I looked at the matchups, I was like, good lord, that is a tremendous, tremendous card. And then on top of that, you gotv against be Ball, So now you know what are we talking about? I mean, how good is that?
Incredible?
And with the Zang Wilder fight, there's so many like subplots, right, like, is is Wilder going to be experiencing? Is it adahuasca? You know beforehand? That might you know, make him less violent than he's been in the past.
Does does Jang have anything left?
I was so disappointed in Jang in that fight against Joseph Parker because he had him hurt in the third round and then just went through the motions, had him or twice really but in the third round, kind of went through the motions after that, Like, does he have anything left in the tank? As he's in his early forties as well? There's just so much.
I'm with you.
It could be a dull fight like throughout, but one of the those guys is going to land something big and that's going to make that fight, that ending really dramatic.
All Right.
A couple of things I want to run by you for let you Go. One A big announcement by match Room last week that they have signed Jeron Boots Ennis to a multi fight deal, a three fight deal, which is kind of typical for Matchroom, is what I've been told. I'm not I wasn't shocked by this, Dan, because Mattrium has been doing business with Bozy Ennis and Andy Cruz, so they've they've had a connection there, and Boots is the kind of guy that wants to stay active. And say whatever you want about Eddie Hern, but he keeps these guys active. They fight two or three times a year if they want to. What did you make What was your reaction to Boots Ennis signing with Mattroum.
Well, similar to you, I wasn't totally shocked by it whatsoever, I think, And I wrote a piece about this on my substack just recently, right, you know, in a few days after the signing was announced, And I think this is the perfect marriage. You know, I don't always say that about certain signings, but in this particular case. Look, we all know Eddie's a great promoter. You love him, hate him, but he's going to get the word out. He's going to screen from the rooftops about his guys. He's gonna start talking about you know, Boots Ena should be fighting Crawford's. Pretty soon we'll be talking about Boots and should be fighting sugar Y Leonard. I mean that's what Eddie does. You know that? So I think Eddie has himself a real top level talented fighter. He is not going to be fearful whatsoever. Anybody they match him up with, he's gonna like his chance of his guy winning the fight. So without question, they're gonna be a shout his name, you know, at Mattroom Boxing and getting the word out for him. So that's a great thing, and that's what Boots end needs because even though he's still on the younger end of his career, he's already got what thirty one fights. I want to say, he has had some of the worst promotion for a very talented fighter that can ever think of in my almost twenty five years of covering professional boxing. Just a terrible, terrible job of being promoted. And I don't even like in his recent fights. Of course, he's been on the PBC cards and TGB cards, but I don't blame them at all because he was never signed with them. So when he was on those shows, it was because of the showtime relationship to the head he was signed to the network, so they put him on those cards, but they were under no real motivation or obligation if you will, to do anything specifically for Boots's career. They put him on obviously, so he hasn't really had a real is official promoter. Now boxing was like a glorified booking agent. They didn't do shows, they never put out any material about him, they didn't promote him. They had no social media presence whatsoever. Mattroom boxing, it's the entire opposite. They're gonna have the full force of everything that goes in with Mattroom, with Eddie obviously with the owne, and it's going to be I think it's the perfect marriage at this point now, you know. I say that also if Boots had ended up going with another promoter, if he had signed with Cop Rank, for example, they would have done what they'd do also. But I think Mattroom and Eddie right now for this young man is the perfect situation. They're going to take him home, hopefully to Philadelphia, maybe somewhere in Atlantic City, but in that region, put him in the fight. He's got the mandatory, whether they'll get the Crowley fight done or it'll be some other mandatory that's next that probably doesn't take the fight. Point is he'll fight this summer and then go try to get the biggest fight possible. I mean maybe just maybe, who knows, maybe they could possibly or Crawford. I doubt it, but you never know, but there there'll be opportunities. The main thing is you sign the fighter and you figure out the big fight later, because they know fights have a way of making other fights.
And I think there's a pathway to big fights that don't include Terrence Crawford. And we'd all like to see it because I think that's the most competitive welterweight fight that's out there. But I think there are other high profile events that Mattroom can put Boots and Us in with. So I agree with you, it's probably gonna be the mandatory at some point this summer is.
The big fight for wealth, right, other than Crawford.
Well, I mean, has Connor been a big fight? Like you go over to the UK and take a Connor Ben fight.
So I think the Connor bentfight would happen in the United States because they can sell either way, and they can put it on you know, the prime time, in the normal his own time and still and make make ay from both ends of it. So I actually had mumped about that as a possibility because Connor still can't fight in the UK at the press, right, but he certainly can't fight here in the United States. He's license, he's fought here twice in his most recent two bouts, so that's probably the biggest fight. But I'm still not sure, you know, is there still a movement for them to make that fight that was being heavily discussed between Connor Ben and Nanny Packyo. I have my reservations only because if you can't fight in the UK, that's one thing. I still question whether they would be able to fight Connor Ben in the Saudi Arabian market because of the fact that the cards that take place there are regulated by the British Box Board of Control, where he cannot get a license. So just because the fight would perhaps be in Rihaed, would he be able to get a boxing license. You know, I don't know the answer, but it seems a little shaky. But yeah, I think that at some point in those three fights that he has with matrim that I can't say that the connor Ben fight will happen, but you have to believe it's going to be a high level discussion of will maybe it will happen.
And the third fight to me is Devin Haney and that wouldn't be for another year or so. But if you know, you can Handy Garcia coming up this weekend, if Hany wins that fight, and look, Devin has constantly chased the biggest fights out there. If he wins one or two more and wins a couple of belts at one hundred and forty pounds, then all of a sudden he becomes a lot more marketable at one forty seven, the four hundred speed champion at one thirty five, now the unified champion at one. There there'd be a market for that, you know, two guys like that, you know, fighting maybe in New York City in a big fight.
Yeah, I hadn't actually thought about that one, but that would be that would be tremendous. Obviously, you know, Devin's got some work to do for the next you know, with the Darcy fight and then whatever, maybe the fight after that, but yeah, that would be very exciting. The point is, as long as Boots does his job and wins his fights, I'm very confident that Eddie and matching team will do their job and then make the big fights for the guy. I mean, they have a track record of doing that for most of their fighters. So that's that's good for Boots And the bottom line is, for the first time in his entire career. He's gonna have a promoter that well, as I wrote, you know, actually promote him.
Yeah and yeah.
I have to imagine that Boots, who is a stablemate of Andy Kruz, had to have watched Eddie just lavish praise on Andy Cruz over the last year, like every time Andy Kruse fights, Eddie's in the ring right afterwards saying that's the best lightweight in the world. That guy can beat your Vonte Davis, that guy can be key Sean Davis. Like he has done everything humanly possible to turn a non English speaking Cuban Olympian into a name in the US, and he hasn't gotten there yet, but he's built him up as best as he possibly can.
I have to imagine some of that.
Resonated and three and at this point, I mean.
Yeah, three and oh and you know we're we're having those conversations. I have to imagine that resonated both both with Boots and with his father.
Who's the trainer and manager of Andy Kruz.
Last thing for you, Dan, I want to ask you about kind of what has been going on a little kerfuffle, if you want to call it, between our good friend Sean Porter, and let's just call it the people of Japan or the market of Japan. Sean Porter, who came out recently and said that from in a way to become a megastar in boxing, he has to fight in the US now in a way, has fought in the US in the past, but as his profile has raised, he has fought exclusively in Japan.
He has fought.
It's a big venues in Japan. Next fight, it's going to be at the Tokyo Dome, just a massive event for in a way, but John Porter believes that in a way needs to fight in the US to achieve that next level of greatness.
Where do you stand on that opinion?
All do respect my man Sean Porter, who I've known for many many years, covered his entire career. Like Sean and Off, a lot will have to disagree. This is a big world of the United States at one time was the destination, the end all be all for the top level fighters. It was the home of the heavyweight division. It was the home of boxing period in terms of the biggest fights. It's just not the case anymore. You know, we don't have that type of fan base in this country anymore. We certainly don't have the broadcasters that we once did. And in terms of in a way you did say like you said he did fight in the United States. I know because I was ringside for one of those fights. In Japan. He is the number one sports star in Japan. He can sell out or come close to selling out the Tokyo Dome. They will do a gate in the Tokyo Dome. That's on the level of the biggest fights we see in Las Vegas, like the Canelo fights that are taking place there. Are are when Tank and Ryan fought those types of fights.
And but for context, we're talking like fifteen to twenty million dollars right, like real numbers.
So besides the gate that Dey'll generate, he's making for his fights, he's making eight figures per fight. But the thing about it is, there's not a single boubt that he could have, at least not to my way of thinking, that he could come to the United States to have where he could come even forget about there are some fighters that will leave money on the table, even if it's all a little bit of a bigger amount, because they want to do something. They want to fight in the United States or they want to fight in New York City, or they want to fight in Las Vegas. This is so far beyond just leaving a little bit of money on the table. There's nothing that could come close to paying him the kind of money here in America that he makes in Japan. So for what purpose. At the end of the day, he's got the accomplishment, he's he's a undisputed champion. There's nobody that does a rank among the top couple of guys in boxing counter for pound. To me, he's number two at worse, and depending on what happens with the upcoming fight, you might even make him number one. Not a knockout of Crawford, but because in a way is being very active and Terrence Crawford has not fought since last July. It has nothing scheduled, so you can't just sit on your ranking and just keep it forever. So he's at worst two pound for pound, he's making the biggest money that a guy in that weight class has ever made in the history of the sport, selling out arenas. He's going to be a first bound Hall of Famer no matter what happens from here on it out, that's already a done deal, in my opinion, So who the hell of Seawan Porter say you got to come to fight in America? You know, in a way if you read his his social media, his perspective is I love it. He's like, look, I'm willing to come and fight. I'm paraphrasing basically, if there's something worth it for me to come there, I'll fight in America. You think he's worried about coming to fight, he's botyret three times. They'll fight anybody over here. But now all the other guys got to go see him because they can all make their biggest pay day. Why do you think Marlon the Polis was in the ring of them after the fight? How do you think Stephen Fulton got on the plane and went to Japan and we can go chapter reverse of his opponents? And why do you think Louis Neary's doing that to go from Mexico because they're gonna be at paid big money and make that in the United States. Even if you put in a way in Las Vegas or New York or LA or whatever, what's the gate going to be. I don't even think an inn Awa gate in America anywhere you could think of wouldn't exceed five million dollars he's doing over there, and like you said, he's fighting in the biggest arena, Sant Thomas Super Arena now the Tokyo Though, which hasn't a host in a boxing event since one of the most famous fights in hitching of the sport when Buster Douglas upset Mike Tyson in nineteen ninety. Think about how long that has been and that that facility has been there. So again, all due respect to Sean, he's swung in this big time in this one.
You can say that a fighter can't truly connect with an American fan base until he regularly fights in the US. I think there's truth to that.
But but why does he care about the American fan base?
He doesn't know.
That's my point that this is kind of my point, like in a ways not out there saying America loves me like in a way is not out there, saying like I am recognizable wherever I go. In a way is about making the most money he possibly can. And to your point, what he makes in Japan dwarfs everything he could potentially.
Make in the US.
And if you look up the the weight classes, Dan, let's say at some point he jumps up to one twenty six. All those title holders, if they want to fight in a way, they're going over to Japan. Right now, let's say jump to one thirty hypothetically, all those title holders to fight in a way, they're going over Japan. You really have to go to like and it's not gonna happen. I'm not saying this, but like the old Jervonte Davis stuff and people throwing that out on social media, if for some reason anyway woke up and say, you know what, my body can handle it, I'm gonna fight at one thirty five off by Javonte. That's a fight you could make in the US in Vegas and do a massive number at the live game because you'd have a big, big, big cross section of people coming in for that. But that's the only fight from one thirty five on down that makes any sense for in a way to go anywhere but in Japan.
And if you ever think about it, is this you say, like, he's not looking to become a legend in America. But there's the boxing fans, if you will, of America. They know him, they follow him, and I have to say there's something sort of like it's become like a fun sort of thing to like in a way, he's fighting, I'm getting up at four in the morning on or you know East Coast time. He gets an earring around seven o'clock in the morning, six, six thirty in the morning, whatever it is, to make sure you wake up early to watch that fight. I mean, I've done that in his recent fights. I you know, make sure I get up. You know, I don't maybe wake up for the very first out, but I'm up in time for him to be on live and you know, top the TV on because I've got the app in my television or put on my phone laying in bed. I mean, it's like a beautiful thing. So it's almost like, you know, you go on social media, it's seven in the morning on some random Monday, and everybody's talking about NOI. In a way, I mean, that's there's not a lot of guys that can generate that kind of buzz on social media in boxing by fighting on an unusual time. In you know, in the United States anyway, it's highly unusual for the at least in this current day and age, to be major fights on a Monday on Tuesday. But in the in the seventies and eighties that was common in America. In Japan, weekday fights are the norm, far more so than fighting a big time fight on a Saturday night like here in the United States. So, you know, i'd say this, you know, time to stop being just totally American centric. I'm American. I'd love to see him fight here. Obviously, I'd love to see the heavyweight big fights be in the United States, not necessarily all of them being in Saudi Arabia. But I get it's a big global community in the boxing. It's a big, big world out there, and it's a global sport. It's not the NBA where they have all the games in America and maybe once in a while they send a teams overseas to have a game or that they've done occasionally with Major League Baseball in the NFL. Boxing is everywhere, and that's one of the reasons it's such a great sport because you can have some random guy from Japan become the pound for pound king. You can have some unknown little guy like Manny Pack emerged from nowhere and become a global icon on powner for pound and become one of the richest, most legacy fighters in the history of the sport. That's what anyways on his way is to doing. Whether he's got the big fan base or of the money in America is completely irrelevant. It doesn't matter. And so all the Americans who want to hold their noses up and say, well he needs to fight here, I say, you know what, go jump off the cliff, baby.
Yeah, Louis Neary.
For context, his last US fight was fought at the Fox Theater in Pomona. All right, So I mean, and no disrespect to two guys that are fighting there, but you're not coming over to fight a guy that last fought in the Fox Theater. And like, let's say goes to one twenty six and top ranks, Like, you know, here's Luis Lopez. You're not fighting Louise Lopez in the US or Europe. You're fighting him in Japan. We can make it eight figures at.
Least with that Nearyes fight that you mentioned that Fox heater, I and many others picked that fight against covid Issen as the twenty twenty three fight of the year.
Great fight.
It was a great fight. Fight. Again, the gate was probably what like ham Sandwich, I mean, come.
On, and it looked fighters. Fighters that are in these way classes aren't stupid. Like what did it take Stephen Fulton like ten seconds to agree to go over to Japan. There was no arguing there, there was no back and forth. But let's bring in a way to the US. Everybody knew where the money was, p PC knew where the money was. Fulton knew where the money was.
He took it.
Good for him, Good for anyone that goes over there and gets in the ring with that guy, because that guy is a beast. That's the other part of it. Dan, Like his fights aren't boring, like we get up at six am, seven am, because they're awesome because every time he gets in the ring, he is going all out.
He was going to war.
And that Neary fight another fight we can talk about down the line. That's gonna be a great fight as long as it last, because near he's coming to.
Fight too, especially because Neary's got such a he's got he's sort of like enemy number one in Japan because of his past history.
I love it.
Yeah, that's gonna be tremendous. I mean I've been following in a way literally since he basically turned pro I mean watching his first professional world title fights when he was down at one hundred eight pounds in like I want to say, maybe is like eighth fight or something like that. So I've been fortunate to be aware of him since the beginning, and he's just gotten better and better and better and blossomed. I mean, I didn't think he was going to be at that time. You're like, Okay, this this guy is really good. Am I going to see him as a guy that wins titles and all these weight classes and be in undiscuted champion in two divisions, be a lock first down hall of famer. Have like my own internal argument with myself about whether I should happen number one or number two pounds per pound. I mean, he's made it and he doesn't need America to do so.
You know what might bring him to the US? I take it back.
I got one more and you can throw this. You can tell me, you can tell me I'm crazy, Bam Rodriguez. You're creating Vam Rodriguez.
That's a good don't get me wrong. That's a heck of a fight. But I think Bam Rodriguez would be would be more than willing to pack up and go over there.
Probably he's got a problems.
Relationship with with Teak in boxing, mister Honda in Japan.
Yeah, he does.
Robert Garcia, you know, who's his manager and trainer. They can make that into a big time fight over there, also he does.
I'm just thinking of names, right, Like, that's the only name, and if Bam beats a Strada, his named is a little bit bigger.
Maybe he goes to one eighteen wins a belt.
I don't know, that's that's the only name I could think of that makes sense for a US based fight.
But I'm with you.
Ultimately, he probably goes over there and collects a big fat paycheck to go to war with that guy, all right, Dan. Check out Dan's newsletter Fight Freaks Unite. You can subscribe on his sub stack. You can subscribe on his social media channels as well. Dan always great to catch up, man.
I appreciate it, you bet, Chris, thank you very much.
And when we come back my conversation with Devin.
Haney, A lot has changed since then.
You are now a undisputed world champion, a two division world champion.
How much better are you?
Former undisputed former speed? I'm just giving you the credit for that being a disputed world champion. But how much better are you right now than the man that hopped in that ring.
Four years ago?
Level was above of that guy.
You know at that time, you know I thought I was the best thing, you know, out the best thing smoking, and you know I would you know, kill that guy then, so, uh, you know levels above.
You faced Regis program this past December, and Regis came into that fight and accomplished guy arguably the top man at one hundred and forty pounds, and it was about as lopsided as it could possibly get it.
And it was everything everything I said in that face off with me, you and him, I said I was going to do I.
Was going to get to that. But since you you bring it up, you did.
You said you were going to hurt him, and you said, now this is I remember vividly you said, Regis, after this fight, you're going to be saying I'm a great fighter. And sure enough, in the ring right after the fight, he said, you're a great fighter.
He better than what I thought.
Knocknat.
I'm gonna give a credit. I'm gonna give Bill credit.
I'm gonna give any credit.
Ryan Garcia won't be no different.
He's gonna say, or I knew you were a great fighter, because he knows that he knows the level that I'm on, he knows what I bring to the table. We heard him say this before. Ryan Garcia has known me since I was ten years old, eleven years old, so he knows what type of fighter that I am, so he could say what he wants to say. We know that he's gonna he's gonna bark, he's gonna down play me the type of fighter that I am.
But after April twenty f gonna say I knew how.
Great he was.
You mentioned how long you guys have known each other. When was the first time that you heard the name Ryan Garcia. The first time I ever heard of Ryan Garcia.
I was on YouTube just looking up like you know, like like the amateur circuit the guys you know, Silver Gloves, like you know, around around that time, and that's when I've seen the name Ryan Garcia.
And then I ended up fighting. Our first fight was at the Junior Golding Looves.
What do you remember about that fight.
I didn't have that many fights, didn't have much experience, and Ryan Garcia had a lot of experience and He had a big following, you know, the the Latinos and you know we fought a mesquite so all that, but it was it was the whole region. They knew Ryan Garcia, so they were going crazy for him. But I didn't know and so they were like they nobody knew me. No, they thought he was gonna just blow me out the water and it was a good fight. Ryan won the fight. So that's when I like, really like it woke me up to you know, the the amateur boxing scene. People started to know me. People started to like, oh, okay, that was the guy that I put up a great fight. Like nobody's like I said, they expect me. They expec him tom to blow me out. And they were like, oh okay, that's the guy that fort Ryan Garcy.
He's good and.
It's the rest was history. After that, we fought, you know, five more times after that one. To be real with you, though, Ryan won when we were little kids because he's had the experience, and when we got older, I put it on him, especially the last fight.
What happened the last fight, I gave him an a count. I gave him an a count. I beat the shit out of him.
Do you remember thinking even then when you're sixteen years old, like we're going to see each other in the pros someday, you know.
I mean so many kids that was good in the amateurs that just turned out to not even be nothing in the pros.
So you know, you don't really know. You don't really know.
Is he the most dangerous fighter that you faced up until this point?
You know, Ryan Garcia has power, of course, but we just Prograce have power too, Lenars have power. A lot of these guys have had, you know, power. I'm just on a different level. So you know, he could bring all the power that he want, gonna bring his skills and the IQ that I go and show him handicap him of his power.
Like I do.
You do have a ability, through your skills and the preparation you put in with the people on your team to take away the best weapon that an opponent had. Readier's program didn't land any left hands of consequence on you back in December. How challenging you think it's going to be to stay away from the left hand of Ryan Garcia When I.
Set out to do something, if I don't want to get hit, I'm not going to get hit I'm a handy camped Ryan. You know he's gonna fight with you know, both arms behind his back, not one, but both.
Your dad said, this fight has become personal over the last few weeks.
Would you agree with that?
You know, he crossed the line. He says some stuff that that just that just wasn't right. One of the main things that he said that I just I can't is that he spoke on my religion. You know, you know it's it's boxing. You can say what you want to say, but he know what he said about my religion?
What was it he said that? You know what he said was this to you directly or something on social media?
No, he said it to somebody in it and he got back to me.
The face off you guys had in Las Vegas, I think a lot of people were surprised to God as he did as it did, because it felt like for a long time, even though you guys were adversaries, that you were friends.
Is that fair to say?
No?
I mean, you know, we we were rivals since since young kids.
You know, it was you know, somewhat mutual respect at a point, but all that respect go out the door now, and you know it's it's personal, it's it's.
No longer friends.
And you know, these guys say they talked this talk and then after they want to hug and you know, talk about oh, it's just this, it was just that, but he crossed the line. And after this it's none of that. We don't we Me and Ryan gar Seat don't never got to, you know, talk again. And it's not you know, and I know, once he loses one time, make an example out of him. He's gonna come, he's gonna try to say all that, but no, let's leave it at what it is now.
So when this fight ends, if you win, let's say in the same way you win or won against Regis Progray, there won't be the traditional kind of hey, big hug, handshake, that kind of stuff, all because of what he said that got back to you. Yes, the last few years you've been the more accomplished of the two guys. You've won the world titles, you've won in multiple divisions. His star has risen a different way where he's you know, fought a big pay per view against Javonta Davis. What have you thought as kind of his star has risen opposite of yours.
It's pretty much been the same. His biggest fight was Jermonte. You know that was that was that was only his you know fight that was bigger than mine. He knows everything has been.
You know it aligned.
Is this a difficult fight for you?
I'm gonna go in there and I'm gonna make it as as easy as possible. Like I said, Handy kaplan and uh, don't make this guy look ordinary like he really is. It feels like your confidence grows every single fight when we talk. Going back to the Jojo Diaz fight, I remember sitting there when you and Jojo rops to each other and said, you better not disrespect, but you better know what you're getting in with.
You won that fight, control that fight. Really Ever since then, it feels like I've seen your confidence growing.
Is that fair, hips, I mean, that's what happens when you have big fights. You know, you get that experience and you gain confidence, you gain momentum. So of course, well, Devin will see you April twentieth.
Five on Too Zono.
See you there.
That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Dan Rayfield and Devin Haney for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate review this podcast on Apple podcasts, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts, and I will see you, maybe with Sergio Mora later this week.
