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One hundred five two to forty seven hundred in Wyoming, or visit one hundred gambler dot net in West Virginia. Welcome back to another Boxing with Chris Mannix. As always, you can listen to the show live on the AMP app. Just follow Chris Mannix on AMP. This is Boxing with Chris Manning. Oh, somebody punch him in the face, ampty. Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher. What's this is the Heavy hosted by Sis Chris Mannix. That was my moments now with interviews, analysis and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix all right joining me this week on the show. One of my favorite guys over in the UK. One of the great sports journalists in Great Britain, long time writer for the Telegraph. You can hear him on Talk Sport as well follow him on social media. Gareth A. Davies is back on the podcast, looking as Beatles esque as ever. Gareth, how are you. I'm very well, mister manniccause it's great to see you and it's great to be back on with you. Thank you very much for the invite today and it's always a privilege to shoot the shies with you call it likewise likewise, I especially like to talk to you when there's some like In the UK, boxing remains a mainstream sport. It's it's a big deal over there and there's a lot of news coming out of the UK at the moment, some of it old, some of it somewhat fresh, and I want to start by unpacking a little bit of what we learned this week or didn't learn this week about the situation with Connor Ben. Connor Ben was in studio with Piers Morgan. It was I believe, the first on camera interview Ben has done since his fight against Chris Eubank Junior was scrapped back in September in the wake of those two positive drug tests for colomaphine, which, for people that don't know, was a female fertility drug known to increase to starstone. It's the first interview since the WBC ruled that Ben could return to its rankings after the organization examined what was said to be two hundred and seventy pages of evidence that Ben submitted. Gareth. I want to play a couple of clips from this interview. First, here's Carter Ben talking about the toll the last few months have taken on him personally. I mean, it's been brual, you know, it does feel like a witch hunt. I've never seen anything quite like this before in any other athlete, whether they've raised their hands to it, or you know they've just taken a small band. You know, I was willing to fight for my innocence and prove my innocence. Although there was an easy way out in the beginning in lying and saying, oh, I may have accidentally done this, I may have done this by accident and taken a small six month band instead of chose to fight this because my integrity, Mad Mortsman, I would never ever ever raise my hands to something I ain't done. Now, this is a point that Piers Morgan came back to again and again. If Ben has all this evidence, why is he refusing to let the British Boxing Board of Controls see it? Why don't you give this dossier, two hundred and seventy pages of it? Why don't you give it to the British Boxing Board of Control because they're ultimately the ones that can sanction or not sanction. You're right to fight in this country. Might Dad tore up his British boxing license on team in the eighties, You know the Board of that ain't going to stop me from fighting. They can't stop me from fighting. Look having a professional fight in this country, in this country, and that's fine, So be it is. They filed. They filed seven misconduct charges against me. One of them was they wanted because we wanted to fight to go ahead. The second one was because we didn't tell you bank immediately. And on the month that they said we're upholding all charges, I thought you lock and do one. You think I'm going to sit here and take this. But if you have, what they've said is will show us the evidence. But I couldn't. You've got two hundred and seventy pages of apparent evidence. Surely the smart thing to do. Whatever your views of the of the Border Control, they are the governing body, surely you should just give them your evidence. Let me respond. That's that's down to my legal team, you know will stop you. I don't understand what stops you. My pride, the way they've dealt with this way get you through this. But I don't have to be licensed bin aboard. That's my views on me. He's not the fight. I don't plan to finding Britain anytime soon. Put it, I want to trust me while stopping you. The ongoing legal cases. A few facts on this, Gareth before I get your take on that interview. First, it goes without saying the WBC did not clear Connor Ben. But the WBC said was that there was no evidence that Ben intentionally ingested chlomophine and came to a conclusion that eggs could have caused the positive test. This conclusion is one that Ben himself does not really accept. He isn't even embracing that theory. He continues to blame the testers, which is kind of a time honor tradition here in the US, and we'll get to that a little bit later. Second, the WBC ruling is effectively a toothless one. The WBC can rank Ben, it cannot license Ben. The British Boxing Board of Control is the governing body here and until they say Ben can fight, no reputable board or athletic commission will license Connor Ben, including those in the US. I do not believe that states like California, Nevada, or New York will license a fighter without the British Boxing Board doing it. First. Texas maybe because they're a little wild out there, but even them, I think they'd stay away from the Middle East is likely the only place that Connor Ben can go to get a license and fight in the immediate future. So all that being said, Gareth. It was about a twenty minute interview or so with Piers Morgan. You've covered this story from start and we're nowhere near the finished Did you gain anything from if we did learn anything new in that interview, Yeah, that obviously connor Ben has been through a very harrowing time. We don't wish mental illness on anyone through a process like that. He did very openly talk about how his mental health had suffered. Not surprisingly, felt like he was in the court of public opinion the whole time. But I think what we did learn, the biggest thing we learned is he's not going to take his case to the Boxing Border Control, the British Boxing Border Control, and I think that's a shame because in this whole process, I've spoken on countless times to Robert Smith's Secretary General Sectory the Boxing Border Control, who has just said we are waiting for their evidence to come forward. We want to look at it. I don't think there's a vendetta against him. I do not think there is a personal vendetta against connor Ben, but he seems to think there is. I think it's been ill advised not to go to the Boxing Border Control. Yes, they have strict liability in terms of that Barder test which UK had. The UK Anti Doping body have called on and have looked into. But I don't think they're looking to wreck his career. They're not looking to do that. M So in many ways, that was the one thing that we learned. But we also learned and it kind of came out in his statement before he went in front of this very high profile interview. Everybody knows Piers Morgan. He's an extremely It's like going and doing your interview with Oprah, isn't it. You know, I don't even see to say, he'd say Winfrey, it's like going and doing it with Oprah and and and you know, revealing all with Oprah. Um I think we I think it's strange that that statement came out that he wasn't accepting the exoneration from the WBC when they'd requested his nutritional program and they'd found that maybe it was his egg intake, because they've obviously given that evidence to them. He's purely and utterly saying Varda have got it wrong. They got the testing, there were mistakes in the testing process. He's not accepting that chlomophine got into his system, and he's going to stand by that. It looks like because he also said, you know, I think drugs cheats should be banned for life. So he's taken his stance. You know, will that report ever been made public for example, for us to see these got discrepancies? He's saying over the actual Varder tests that were taken, that were taken to what you assume would be a Warder lab to be tested. So to be honest, after the interview, it was no clearer in the whole situation that has a lack of transparency because it's been behind lawyers the whole time. The Boxing Border Control have barely said anything. You can have said nothing. VARDA is saying nothing, and maybe they will, but why should they. They're just the testing process and it was very unlikely that the WBC were not throwing Varda under the bus. But we're going to break up VARDA and say, you know, they're hopeless or they're wrong, because that is a testing authority in the sport. Go back to the cradle of all of this, which we mustn't forget. There's drug testing for performance enhancing drugs in boxing because it's an inherently dangerous sport. People can be legally killed in the ring. And therefore, when the Boxing Border Control couldn't go through a hearing, maybe ahead of those July and September tests, or particularly in September tests that they didn't do a hearing, they couldn't proceed with that fight with Chris Eubank Junior. And given how Chris Eubank Junior was afterwards, taken nothing away from Liam Smith. To go into the big picture here, he looked so weight drained when he when he drained down to what was it one hundred and fifty nine pounds or fifty seven pounds in the in that ghost way in um. Look how he went under against Liam Smith, taking nothing away from Liam Smith. But you look back and you think, instinctively think thank god those two didn't step in the ring together, especially as chlomophine had shown up in his system in two Vard tests. So it's it's a it's a complex um and difficult case and it's no clearer now than it was five months ago. Frankly, Chris, I just don't, I mean, I don't, do you see it is any clearer now? No, No, I don't. And look you've been reporting on this from day one, Piers Morgan seemed genuinely befuddled as to why Connor Ben would share his quote evidence with the WBC and not the British Boxing Board of Control. Quite frankly, Gareth, I'm surprised it hasn't leaked like the WBCs, not the CIA, Like I'm surprised that that report has not found its way to a media outlet at this point. But forget all that there was some cross talk there during the interview when they brought Nigel Ben in, but it sure sounds like Nigel Ben wants that report out there too, Like do you understand why Connor Ben will not release the report to the British Boxing Board of Control? Do you have any theories as to why he won't give that report to the British Boxing boarder Control. Well, the WBC he CARES program is not strict liability and the Vada Voluntaranti Doping Association tests going into the U Bank fight is under strict liability because of u CAD and Boxing Border Control going into a fight, so that might be one of the reasons. I think he's obviously being advised by his legal team as to he's not making the decisions. His legal team, I assume are making the decisions and advising him. You know. I just it feels ill advised not to go in front of the Boxing Border Control and just go through it and you know, and just go through the hearing with them and find a resolution with the case. I mean, that's what Piers Morgan pressed as much as possible, and the only answer that came in the end was, well, they can do one because they've got a vendetta against me. They had seven charges against me, as he mentioned, two of which she mentioned, and two of the charges you mentioned. Um, that was upheld by the Boxing Border Control. Um. But as you say, as I said, they were, they were acting under strict liability. So, UM, maybe the reason why the WBC, you say, leak haven't leaked it. They're probably Mauricio Suleiman is a guy we know very well. He cooperates enormously with the media. You know, he's he's a very shrewd businessman as well as president of the sanctioning body there. They are arguably the most prevalent sanctioning body. You know, you can call him a mover and a shaker. He's very involved. Um, you know, he talks to all of us in big fight weeks um. And I wonder whether there is strict legal ease over that that they've signed an NDA or or you know, a strict policy NDA that they won't release it um. But then you you end up going around in so because because because I don't want to say they gave him an out, but they gave him an exoneration to get back into the ranking. Say, look, it could have been caused from chlomophine from eggs, or the klomophine could have been from the eggs. There were previous cases of cyclists, I think were mentioned two cyclists, so you know, but he doesn't want to take that because he doesn't want to believe that that's what it was. Because he's adamants that it was down to the what he's read into those VARDA tests. But those VARDA tests were at different times. And I my understanding is that samples are split up anyway. So it's it's it's nobody wins in this right now. And and and on the other note, yes he might fight Manny pecky out. I think Eddie Hearn might well try and fight take that fight to America. I don't know if there is a tripartite agreement between the Boxing Board of Control and all the ABC's, the American boxing commissions, the credible ones. I can tell you the credible ones he'd have to go to, like Georgia or Florida or But what I'm saying is there's a route there to have a fight, isn't there it? Maybe maybe, I just maybe I think more realistically, it's the Middle East or some other foreign country that you take a fight like that too, Like the real commissions in California, Nevada, New York, that they're not going to license him under these particular circumstances. I just don't believe that. And look my read on it is like people listening to this show in the US remember the Major League Baseball scandal, and they remember all the excuses that guys that got caught using substances came up with. I mean, I can go back ten years to when Alex Rodriguez in New York City walked into Mike Francessa's radio studio WFAN, the most powerful radio studio in New York had a TV deal as well, and he sat there and he gave this impassioned speech about how the process was broken because then Major League Commissioner Bud Selig wouldn't come in to testify, which didn't make any sense whatsoever why he would choose that hill to die on. It was all like, look over here, not over here. It was give that a watch at some point. The other example that jump to mind Ryan Braun, who played for the Milwaukee Brewers. This was back in twenty eleven. Ryan Braun got busted with a band substance. He went after the tester, the test taker, who did not follow strict protocol because he took the test on a weekend. He couldn't ship it or allegedly couldn't ship it. He actually won his case because of that. But then two years later Ryan Braun got caught again, and after that subsequently he apologies eyes to the test taker for slandering him in the way that he did. The point of all this, Gareth, we've seen this before, like this is a familiar song to sports fans in the US because we spent a decade plus dealing with it on a regular basis in Major League Baseball. It kept happening and happening and happening, and the excuses even to laymen like you and me never made any sense. They didn't quite add up. And that's where I feel this is going with Connor Ben. The British Boxing Board of Control is just not going to to just, you know, look the other way on this one, and in legitimate states and their commissions are not just going to look the other way. That's why. And here's he was the only other question I had for you on this because I don't really fully understand this. Like Connor Ben, one way to get his reputation's career back on track, I think would be Look, I didn't do this. How this gotten my system? The WB said it was eggs whatever, Like I'm following on my sword here, Like I just I don't know what else to tell you. I didn't take anything the hearing, but the hearing, yeah, no, Like do it like fall on his sword in front of the Border control? Like would the punishment be that severe? I don't think so. I think you're so right. I think you're so right. And and rather than just finding another area to go and fight in that will license him and then work your way back in that way, I think you're so right and it makes absolute sense. That's why my feeling the whole time has been just do your case with the Boxing Border Control. They're not going to ban you for life, you know, the Boxing Border Control are not looking to wreck Connor Ben's career in my view. And also, by the way, even though I jumped ahead of you, though I know exactly where you're going with it, you're absolutely right in my view. How much appetite? Listen, you know me and you are the same. I'm the biggest pakiophile out there. I'm the biggest pac Man supporter there's been. You know you and I covered a vast part probably a decade, twelve years of his career that was just extraordinary in every way, shape or form. One of the greatest crossover sports stories you will ever find. I mean, there aren't better, frankly a modern hero in the sport. But how much appetite is there really to see Connor Ben against many Pakiao? Even this is a guy, a young man who was really growing in the sport and was headed towards Virgil Ortiz fights and really on the cusp of really really big fights. Why Pakia's forty four? Isn't he going on forty five? Why have that fight now? It has I don't know an air of exhibition about it. But has Eddie hearn to something that we haven't that maybe Big Ben's become even bigger in the promoter's eyes, and he's just testing the wind by putting that out with Sean Gibbons. I mean, we know Sean as well. He's been He's a very erudite mover in the sports well noses onions. But is that going to do millions of pay per view buys? I'm not sure now. But what that will do, Gareth is get a Middle Eastern country interested to put up the kind of money where it doesn't matter how many pay per view buys. That's true, That's true. There was a lot of talk about the number of pay per view buys Jake Paul and Tommy Fury did. Who cares the money really came from Saudi Arabia as much as it did anywhere else. That's where I think Pakiow comes into all this. This is Connor Ben's way of getting a big payday without you know, having to worry about the potential of pay per view. What I'm perplexed by in this moment is why paki out is so interested all of a sudden like Packie out is forty four years old. The last time we saw him in the ring was in this horrendous exhibition in South Korea where a weighed one hundred and sixty pounds. Like, I'm sure he's in better shape than most of us. You and I included on that. But I thought Pakiow had the best pro boxing exit he could hope for because he lost legitimately to jordanis Ugas. He lost in a world title fight, but he didn't get beat up. He didn't wind up face down on the canvas like a Roy Jones or like some of these other legends of the game have gone out. If Pakiow comes back in a legitimate fight, that's where we're headed. That's why when I see Sean Gibbons, who is the closest thing to a Pakiow spokesperson there is out there saying just waiting for a phone call Eddie, just waiting to make this fight. That tells me Pakiow is all in on getting back into the ring imagined imagine because we're all going to be there June Abu Dhabi. Can you imagine how big that would be? Around this Connor Ben story and the comeback of Manny Pakiao, who I don't know currently where he sits, but I mean I did an interview with him ahead of that your Dennis Ugas fight on a zoom. It's always a pleasure to speak to many. You know, you know him well as well, I mean even intimately we know him. You know, we've been around him for so long. I wonder if he's got aspirations to run for president again, you know, you know, he's he's had this political career running alongside his boxing career. What is it, twelve thirteen years, So it's gonna be it's gonna be fireworks if that comes off, and they're teasing it with that poster. Sean Gibbons retweeted the poster of those two in Abu Dhaby. You know, there's a lot of there's a lot to be said for the fact he did do that, because they maybe tell sting the waters. But it's a very confusing moment. Boxing has incredible layers of nuance and obfuscation at times. UM. And you know, one of the big things is picking through very often for us what is information and misinformation? UM. But it's it's it's a particularly challenging case this one. But I don't want to see paki out back. I don't he's I don't. I don't need to see him keep going until someone puts him out cold. And if Connor Ben is even close to the fighter we saw before all this happened, there's a pretty good chance he hits paki Out with an Algerie level shot and puts him down. I don't want to see that from Manny paki Out. I just don't. And if he needs the money, I god, I hope not. I hope he doesn't need the money. Man, because he has had so many high profile fights, so we always said this about many and people around him always said it. He will a well end up needing money because there's no welfare state in the Philippines, but there is a welfare state when it comes to Manny Pacquiao, because they used to queue in their thousands outside his place in General Center City, you know, and he would just give people say yes no. I remember speaking to the commercial his commercial arm when I can't remember her name now, who worked for Bob Aaron the top rank, and she said there were so many I forget her name. She was a She was a lawyer who worked for him, and I remember the clearing up of companies that carried his name where he just said, yeah, take my name, take my name, because they were trying to create his commercial and image rights in the right way. But there was so much out there, cans of this and dog food that, and you know, I'm making this up, but there were so you know, because that's what he did, said, yeah, used my name, do this, you know. So, I mean, he's a brilliant fellow. But I agree with you, you know, he's you know, we've just had Floyd Mayweather fighting over here against Sarah and Chalmers a couple of weekends ago, and you know, there wasn't really it wasn't overly promoted either. There weren't enough people there to see Floyd Mayweather and its first fight in the UK as an exhibition about I hastened to add, but it should have sold out the O two arena with the amount of fens or after Floyd Mayweather, but it actually didn't. Yeah, yeah, I was reading about the low numbers, low turnout for that fight, you know, for paqui Ou though, keep doing dumb exhibitions if you want to make a couple of bucks, you know, find foreign countries that will pay you to fight MMA stars or pop stars or YouTubers whatever, but do not get back in there, in my opinion, with a guy that can crack, I don't want to see that happen to many. PACKI out a couple of things before I let you go. We are less than a month away from Anthony Joshua's return. At the moment, Anthony Joshua is hold away somewhere in Texas working with Derek James. It reminds me a little bit of when like Rocky went to work with Apollo kind of disappeared off the radar and dug in and only focused on boxing. You know. I guess the question I have is, like, what is the perception about the stakes for Anthony Joshua going into this fight? He's in his early thirties at this moment, He's coming off back to back losses. If you look at the totality of it, it's what three in the last four that have been losses for many Anthony Joshua. Like, what's at stake here in a fight like this? And is does josh we have to do more in your opinion than just win against Jermaine Franklin. Well, the trouble is, if he goes twelve rounds and he looks decent and he wins behind his jab, he'll be damned. And if he knocks him out in four rounds, he'll be damned because he should have knocked him out, or he shouldn't have gone twelve rounds. I just hope we see a confident Joshua who looks too exact, a strong game plan, starts strong and lets his hands go when the opportunities come. You do feel that he'll be more aggressive under Derek James. Everybody who works with him talks so highly of him. He's done so little wrong. He's been a tautemic figure. And Eddie Hearne is right when he says a lot of us wouldn't be where we are, doing what we are in big stadium fights were it not for Antony Joshua and latterly Tyson Fury as well, by the way, which people will pick me up for mentioning Tyson Fury there as a Fury fanboy, but they have both really drawn and as you say, boxing is huge over here, and when we have stadium fights they are enormous. You've been to them, yourself. They are enormous. The only thing that matches that in the States at the moment is Canello and his big events you know, in Arlington and places like that. But I think the optics have got to be good for him in this fight. A spectacular knockout would change a lot of views that his confidence is back. Look, he's a very wealthy man who's done extraordinarily well for someone that took up boxing at the age of eighteen. Olympic super heavyweight gold in his home city eleven years ago, now three of the world title belts, a two time world heavyweight champion. Did he earn close to eighty million pounds for those two fights with Yusick? You know, one as a champion, probably the highest paid challenger in history. I think something like that. I think that is out there, you know, maybe forty five million for that second Yusick fight. And he was better by the way in that fight, and for me, up to the ninth round, that was a close, good fight. I think, as I say, if he looks good, I think things look up him. They're not flocking to the Oto Arena yet. It's a smaller profile fight. It's his first fight onder Zone zone proper. That's going to be a testing market. The sky Sports, sky News sky Box office machine was enormous for him for ten years. Obviously, they managed to pip that fight with Usick last year in Saudi Arabia. Business was going back and forth and they managed to get it. He's a big draw, but he hasn't sold out the Oto Arena yet, so maybe people and I think it will be full by the time we get there. But this isn't under the radar fight. He's under the radar over there in Dallas, Texas. We saw him a few weeks back. He's in fine fattle in my view. But maybe he needs a different pr strategy at the moment. Maybe he's always been less is more and doesn't do loads of appearances, but maybe he needs to do that a little bit more. But if he doesn't want to, that's up to him. I think he's got four or five fights left, maybe maximum four or five fights. He is doing I think everything right in twenty twenty three. I think joining with Derek James was right. I think going to that Jim where Errol Spence has become a superstar, where Jeremel Charlo has become a superstar was right. I think leaving the UK and getting outside of his comfort zone, outside of a place where he is a superstar, and going to a place where quite quite frankly, no one knows who he is. He could probably walk around downtown Dallas and no one would recognize him, at least very few. Wilder can do that as well. I'm true, No, no, true, But like for Anthony Joshua, he needs it more than Deontay wild totally. No, I'm yeah. I think that was smart. I think the path that Eddie Hearn is putting him on is smart. Look, Jermaine Franklin, good for him for how he fought against Dillian White. I'm not buying the idea that Jermaine is Andy Ruiz two point zero. Andy Ruiz had hand speed that was unrivaled in the heavyweight division, like Andy Ruise was a different animal atogether. I think Jermaine Franklin is the perfect comeback opponent because he's credible for what he did against Dillian White. But he's not that dangerous if we're being honest. And then I think a White fight, if it comes to fruition, is also the right way to go because Dillian White, I love what he's done in his career. I think he got royally screwed over a couple of times. But the Dillian White I've seen in his last few fights, he's looked pretty close to washed Gareth, to be honest with you, like the Dillian White from a few years ago would have stopped Jermaine Franklin, would have stopped him, and he had trouble with him, you know, couldn't land those big shots, at least not until the latter stage of the fight. I think he goes down Deane Joshua, and then if Joshua gets through them, I think the physical could once again once again match the mental. We could once again have a fighter that is physically imposing and mentally sharp, the fighter we saw going into the Vladimir Klitchko fight in twenty seventeen. I think this is the right way to get Joshua back to that fighter, if he can succeed at each step. Yeah, I mean, listen, I'll pick up a couple of things on what you said there. I completely agree with you about Franklin and then Dillian White. Two powerful victories get him back mentally, and then he set up for Tyson Fury Joe Joyce, Deontay Wilder, whoever you want. I mean, I'd love to see him in with all three of those. They're massive fights. I mean, I'm biased. I really want to see him fight Tyson Fury. If yeah, I mean you were speaking like a promoter, then I am now if I was his promoter last year, yeah, but we know how the game works. If if I've been a promoter last year, I wouldn't have put him in with Tyson Fury in December because it was too much of an end game fight. They probably thought about it, but this is the beginning. He's got a six fight deal I understand, or maybe it's a ten fight deal with the Zone. I don't think he'll see that entire deal out. I think it's ten fights, isn't it over five years? Two fights a year. It's very lucrative for him. They will try and favor him. There is an elongation in Koreas. There's a different type of building of boxers in the modern age. People want it now, don't they? And boxing works to a certain algorithm. People who like both sports of boxing and m the fans anyone saying no, we want the fight now, want the fight now, because that's what they do in MMA, but it doesn't work the same, and rebuilding Joshua is very important. You fall and you rise. It's snakes and ladders, isn't it. You slide down the snake and you climb the ladder again. I completely agree, and that's how I've seen this year for him. He hasn't fought three times in a year since twenty and fifteen. I think it is. But also Vladimir Klitchko was six years ago, you know, three losses in four fights since then. You could see he wants to be a better boxer. But George Foreman has said it, other people have said it. In the boxing game, just decide what you want to be, Anthony, and just go out and be it. Be the finisher and destroyer you are. He's as good a finisher as anyone when he's got someone hurt, and I think that's the Joshua you want to see. He's a pleasure to deal with. I wish we saw more of him around us, and I only wish him well this year, and I wish him well against Jermaine Franklin on April the first, because when he's healthy and when he's going well, it's good for British boxing and world boxing. Ditto. And I know you're going to reach this in a minute, Reach to this in a minute. Ditto when Tyson Fury is firing on all cylinders as well, Because what the hell is happening with Tyson Fury and Alexander Ustik at the moment? Well, that's that's what I wanted to ask you about to finish here. Two months ago, it seemed like a foregone conclusion that in the spring we would get Fury against Usk, and then talks with the Middle East kind of fell apart. Now we're back to doing it in the UK. You've seen, you've heard USI's camp say we want fifty fifty. Tyson Fury's campus pushed back pretty hard. And we are less than two months away, Gareth from the targeted date for Fury against Alexan Usk, which was at least talked about as being April twenty ninth. What do you know about where we stand with all this? Do you still believe that Fury Usk will be next? For both guys? I don't know, It's the honest Once so, I've spoken to both of the promoters for Tyson Fury, both to top rank and Queensbury and they are literally saying we should have more news in a few days. And I've done that probably five six times in the last two or three weeks. I think they are really getting towards the cutoff point by the end of this week, to the point where the promoters are saying, we can't force these guys to step in there. This is the pot available, this is what they can get. But when a fighter like Usick even has earned a certain amount of money for a fight in the Middle East with Anthony Joshua, the step down in money is not something that not so only the boxer but the entire team who are all taking a cut of that, are not happy to take. So therefore they're trying to make up their margins by going for a bigger percentage. Does of the purse in the UK? Does Tyson Fury deserve more in the UK? I think if it's announced as being at Wembley Stadium, the majority of people are coming to see Tyson Fury. Oh yeah. I still don't think they'd have a problem getting ninety thousand people in there if they announced it in two weeks time. Because again, December, the third freezing cold hats, scarves and gloves Derek Chazura. You know, seventy thousand people, sixty five thousand people at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium in North London. They're not going to have a problem with that. I think it does big numbers on pay per view buys because there'll be a lot of interest. First undisputed title fight in the four belt era, undisputed title for the first time in a long time. But it's just disappointing and you know, far bit from us say just take whatever money is available, but it's just a shame if we can't get this fight's happened, and fights don't happen in boxing. Sometimes think about about think about two what we could get this year if things play out right, Like if AJ goes out, knocks out Germaine, Franklin, knocks out Dillian White, he gets his swagger back. If Tyson Fury beats Usk and then goes out this summer and let's say fights Francis Naganu and becomes the guy that you know demythologizes Francis Naganu because he would just smash him. But that's a high profile event that would do big numbers in the UK. Us wherever, Like he would have both these guys going into a potential showdown in like December with close to if not all, of the momentum they would have had a couple of years ago. They would have gotten it back at that point, and then that fight would again be for the undisputed championship, only this time Fury would be won with all the belts. Like that's that's kind of what I'm crossing my fingers on there, Garrett. That it will be the Middle East. It would be the Middle East, that pot of money there. Yeah, yeah, that's where that happens in my view. Um, don't forget Joe Joyce, who is a player here as well. Look, Fury against Joshua is that. I know. Joe Joyce's stock has risen enormously in the last year, and and some people believe, I'm probably amongst them, that he could potentially give Fury a harder fight than Music, physically harder fight than Music because because Fury is going to have to jab jab move, jab jab move, wear him down, whereas against Musick he may well try and wear you sit down and go after him a little bit more. I think he would much smaller man doesn't punch our dangerous fight still, don't get me wrong, but he doesn't want I don't want to call music a wasp, but that kind of zipping in and out and winning, you know, targeting the belly and scoring like that body head, body and head being an elusive Southport target, great mover as he is a trickier fight, more of a chess match, more of a boxing match. But they're all an incredible prospects. But like you say, it feels like there's there's no bigger fight than Fury as undisputed champion and Anthony Joshua with a couple of wins under his belt, wouldn't surprise me if he looks really good against Jermaine Franklin, and Fury does be usick if and when that happens, if it's pushed later now that there isn't a Delian White fight in the summer, Friendony Joshua and you just see those two meet in the Saudi Araba, because that's the fight, that's the fight of this era. I hate to say that is it? Yeah, I don't know, if I do, I do It was two years ago and it still is now. A's a massive event that would make both guys a lot of money, and until they meet in the ring, you're just not going to know. And you know, I think going into we would think Fury would be the favorite. But you know, if Anthony Josh can get right, if Derek James is the right trainer, he could easily get back to his winning ways once again. Nobody better on the British boxing scene that my man Garetthay Davies. Follow him on social media, check him out at the Telegraph, check him out on Talk Sport, among others. I appreciate your time, my friend. It's always a pleasure for me. Mister Mannix, thank you very much, my friends, And when we come back my conversation with Tony Harrison, get off the bench and bet the NBA with Fan Duel, America's number one sports book, because right now Fan Duel is giving customers ten times your first bet in bonus bets. It doesn't matter if your first bet is an airball. You'll still get up to two hundred dollars in bonus bets, win or lose. If you're listening to this podcast, you're doing it for boxing. But you know, I'm an NBA guy too, and I love a little bit of something to watching games at night by betting on the NBA. FanDuel is the only place I go to do it. 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Or visit FanDuel dot com slash r Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee or Virginia one one hundred next step or text next step to five three three four two in Arizona one eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven or visit CCPG dot org slash chat in Connecticut one one hundred nine with it in Indiana one hundred five two two forty seven hundred, or visit ks gambling heelp dot com and Kansas one eight seven seven seven seventy stop in Louisiana. Visit www dot MD gambling help dot org in Maryland one eight seven seven eight Hope and Why or text hope and Why four sixty seven three six nine in New York. One hundred five two two forty seven hundred in Wyoming, or visit one eight hundred gambler dot net in West Virginia. All right, Tony Harrison is the former Unified hundred and fifty four pound champion. On Saturday, he will attempt your regain an interim version of one of those titles which takes on tim Zoo in Australia. That's a fight that you can see in the US on Showtime. And Tony joins me here on the show Tony. We were just kind of reminiscing just a moment ago about how you know, you and I met about a decade ago, back when you were running through Europe with Emmanuel Stewart on Vladimir Clitchkos undercards. A little different now, But does any of this kind of feel familiar getting out on the road again, Um, I would say no, Man, I would say no. I think, um not not. Not only was I younger when I was when I was on those Clissicos cards, but I was opening up when nobody was in the crowd, you know what I mean. And now I'm now now I get the flip side of it where I am the clissico in these cards now, so I think, um, like yeah, like like you get media days and and all that stuff that I know he was going through, and I'm like, shit, I hate that, you know what I mean, Like it stuff that he used to do now I hate. Like I'm like, wow, like now I'm at the point that it's now, Oh man, I just want to fight, like, just get me to the fight. I do remember because I was one of the few people that would be sitting kind of ringside when empty like eighty thousand Seed venue and here comes you running out fight out there real quick and to be out the door exactly. Man. But like I said, like I think the flip side of it is now, um yeah yeah, like like the media part of it, you know, it's it's it's just more of a it's just more of to you the man. Now, you the guy. You know, you the guy everybody coming to see you. Know. You get all the media questions, you get all the um fight week is fight week is really busy, man, it's really busy. Back back then it was just like I got to train and and and and do what I needed to do and it was fight time. It was fight time. Now it's like it's every other thing. So yeah, man, it's it's I'm just I'm happy to be in this position though. So tell me how this fight came together? Because when Jamal Charlotte got injured and I found out Tim Zoo was going to be fighting in Australia kind of assumed to be taking on a pretty soft touch as he got ready for a fight against Jamal whenever Jamal was healthy. How did it happen that you are here in Australia getting ready to fight Tim zoo man to be honest, man, I don't know, man, because like I said, I I don't know if I might have spoken to Exist this or what. Because you know, I talked to Tim's manager yesterday and he liked the moment Jamal got his hand hurt. I ended up tweeting like till Tim, I feel in like you know what I mean. And I don't know if I spoken to Exist because he said he had that he took my tweet and he saved that tweet and it was he said, it came down between me and somebody else. And I think they were leading towards the other guy because I think the other guy they had the other guy and um, but you know, something had occurred and the other guy had fell out of it and hey, here we go. Then they got this bad man right here on the phone. So you know, I immediately answer, I didn't even I didn't even get it back. And I'm like, yes, I would do it, Yes, Yes I would. You said something at the very first press conference that stuck with me. He said, Tim, accepting this fight woke you up from the dead. What is it? What do you mean by that? It's a situation for me when when I was speaking on that situation, is boxing has been slow for everybody, you know what I mean, Like boxing has been you know, it's your favorite fighter hasn't been fighting. Whoever your favorite fighter is, he ain't been busy, he ain't been active. So boxing has been slow for all of us. So it's been dead, like it's been really like dead for everybody, you know what I mean. But for me, you know, when I when I joined the boxing, man, it was only I was only my best friend. I was active, you know what I mean. So for him to to be the ultimate competitor that he is, like I am, to take a fight like this at a time like this, it's like, damn boy, you woke me up from the dead because boxing was dead, like boxing was slow. Boxing was boxing was slow, man, it was you know what I mean. Then, And then it's like it's hard to make these fights happen now for some reason, you know what I mean, Like it ain't that the times when Sugarade Leonard and Tommy Hernson them guys like all right, let's go, like let's let's fight like it was. It was. It was easier back then. Man. It was just guys that knew with fighting without Why they started fighting was fighting, you know what I mean. So Tim carries that um, that that love for the sport in his in his heart, you know what I mean. So he like man like I want that challenge. I want the best challenges. I want to test myself. I want to push myself. But that's what it's all about, Like that's what the sport is all about. But for him to get me off of college, like I was the last time I fought like a year ago April. Yeah, yeah, almost a year. But then I fought almost a year ago before that, and then I fall almost a year. So I fought one time one time for like for the last four years. And I don't understand how they expect me to be as sharp as reactive as im and the older I get and I'm only fighting once a year, like I'm for Mayweather. So um for me, I'm just like waiting me about the dead, Like this is the fight I needed for the fight I really wanted, you know what I mean. I get to fight this guy to fight Jamal, which is the fight I really wanted anyway, And I get that. I get to take the fast pass like he took, fight him to skip the line, and I get to skip through everything else I had to go through to fight that one guy, that the same guy he would love to fight, and I get to skip the line of fighting. Man, you know it all made sense for me in the end. Yeah. To your point about activity, your best year was one of your most active years twenty eighteen. You fought three times that year, ended it with that win over Jeremel Charlo, And as you said, three years, it's kind of been once a year. I mean, what do you chalk that up to. I mean, the pandemic obviously caused a lot of problems early on, but why why is it that not being able to get those fights given your status as a former title holder and you know kind of your recognizability in boxing. Man, I think boxing is just more of a it's corporate now. It has nothing to do with fighters no more. It's corporate. I had everything to do with who brings the sales in, has everything to do with the matching up of of who how we can get the most ratings out of a fight. Um, it has nothing to do with just the ear will and and and the gladia a part of just two people that that that love to compete, compete, you know what I mean. So I think that's just the hardness of it. I think it's just it's hard for guys at my at my level to fight guys that's at my level. When um, everything is more of a business now, everything is just like how much money did you giving me? Like how much? How much? How much? How much of that cash? How much care? I'm much to that cash for you dropping for me to fight this guy, you know what I mean? So, which makes sense now because ain't nobody fighting for pennies no more? But yeah, man, like like if I could do it, like I just wanted to stay active, you know what I mean. Like for me, I'm just the best one. I'm active and I fight anybody. It's nobody that I would not fight, you know what I mean. But they just want me to to fight these guys. Now, it's just got to make sense to me because they want me to fight these guys. I'm fighting once a year for the last four years, you know what I mean, they got they kept me active. Oh call me, call me tomorrow now fight. I would have fared this guy next week, you know what I mean, Like you just had to keep me active. So but but now it's just more, it's just more. It's just more. Um, it's more business minded. Not only for promoters and managers, it's almost business mine fighters now, you know what I mean. Now they're starting to be like, well this maybe this may not be the best choice right now, this may not be the best opportunity right now, and we're just gonna We're just gonna go otherwise, you know what I mean, going otherwise for me? Um, Like I said, I'm not the the easiest gotta fight, and for nobody in the division, I'm not the easiest guy, you know what I mean. The long jab, the quickness that, the loosiveness, the power, um, the sharpness and the Detroit style man that I got. Man, it's not it's not an easy style for nobody to fight. So um, Like, guys are not lying up to just fight me, you know what I mean. Like they're not lying up to just run up and just fight a guy like me. So it just ain't gotta be strategic. But you know, if we want to bring the sport back, man, you gotta get guys like me to fight, Tim Caleb to fight being to be the ass h Davis to fight Ryan, you know what I mean. Like though, like then when gods start putting the records on the line and gods start bringing competitive fights back, and then it's like, Okay, well they did it, well, now we could do it, and Earl and Terrence and you know, now we could do Let's do it. You know what I mean. It's not about like let's just get people good boxing. Let's bring good boxing back. For some reason, at at that first press conference, you were very complimentary of Tim's toughness. There's a tough guy, no question about it, um, But you pushed back on the idea that he earned his place a top the junior middleweight division, and you kind of did it again just a moment ago talking about the elevator and that he took to get there. It sounds like you're you're sort of saying, like, Tim's a tough guy, but there are levels to this. Skills pay the bills. However you want to kind of frame it, is that fair to say, uh yeah, yeah, I think I think skills pay the bills. But like I said, it's a lot of guys in boxing that that win fights, that that's made it to the top, that's not skilled at all, you know what I mean. So I think it's like you could carry some of those ask you to toughness and in activity, with with with with with with hands and throw a thousand point like it's a lot of ways that you could become and get to the top. But I'm just like the resume has to speak that way too, though, Like you know what I mean, Like like whatever asked you? You guy that's carrying you to the top. The resume to speak that way. And I'm like, Tim hasn't fought anybody in the top ten, not one person in the top ten, and y'all, I mean to tell me this guy's next up the fight for all the belts, all of them. Like it's not it's not fair to guys like me. It's not fair to guys like Lubin Fondora, you know, guys that really take fights in and out and and and and fight guys top ten, top five, and and it's not fair like how like like how like you know what I mean? And that that that that's been my question this whole time, Like how does a guy that hasn't fought not one person in the top ten gets the fight ball or the belts? Is that I don't know if that's the last name basis, I don't It has nothing to do with skilled at that moment, like it has everything to do with how like not not you boxing, but just how how are you next? How are you the one that's next? How? You know we've um, we've seen Tim zoo in in some fights that he showed some power in some of those fights. Your three losses have all come by stoppage. How much do you trust your chin at this point and in your career? Well? Uh, because every fight I got stopped in was in the ninth and later parts of the round. So you know what I mean that I had nothing to do with you know, you know for you know, people that understand the body and people that understand you know, um, what what a what a what a week ten looks like? Or what a week ten like? You know for Jamille to be one of the hardest punchers in the division. We went eleven rounds and trust me, he hit me a ton of time from round one to round eleven. You know what I mean. I remember I was there in Ontario for that fight. That was a tough fight. Yeah yeah, So like like for me, like yeah, that's that's not a guy that shows me as a week ten. You know we went I went nine with her, and I'm like, that showed me a guy that has a week chin, which shows me what it told me was and like it Like for me, man, I after a round like seven, I was fighting our pure heart, you know what I mean, Like I had nothing left in the body to really give and stand strong on you know what I mean, Like none of the none of the the the the minerals en vitamins party I needed in my body to stand strong at those moments, you know what I mean. So now when I got hit, I'm like, Damn, it's over, you know what I mean. Like but um yeah, like like Chris, I don't had nothing to do on my channel. I think it had everything to do with um the way I lost the weight, the way I you know what I mean, didn't eat at all, Like the week of I didn't eat not one thing the week of my second Charlo, like not one time, you know what I mean. So I just think I just did everything wrong, you know what I mean, just to make the weight. But I did it wrong when when it was when it was calculated ways for me to do it and it still be strong and do it, you know what I mean. But I just did it wrong own. But yeah, I think I think I had everything to do with the way I did it. And yeah yeah, And like I said, man, for everybody to keep saying, you go, you don't have a cheering like. You don't see guys knocking me out in rounds two. You don't see guys knocking me out in round three, four, you know what I mean, Like around five round it'd be the times when my body just has nothing left, you know what I mean. Has nothing to do with it, Kim, But my body has nothing left, just staying strong on, you know what I mean. And I'm fighting a pure heart and pure wheels and pure grit from Detroit, you know what I mean. So um, and even after all those knockdowns, man, you've never seen me sit on the ground. You've never seen me sit on the ground. You've never seen me get knocked down. And the referee stopped to fight while I'm on the ground. I stand up every single time, you know what I mean. So it just shows that no matter what my body had left, I'm gonna get up, you know what I mean. That guy right there he's gonna get he's gonna stand up, he's gonna So referee had to save me every each and every time out because I was gonna die in that thing, you know what I mean, Because I'm gonna stand up east here. You can knob me down at ten times, because I'm gonna stand back up every every single time before the county ten I'm gonna stand up. So no matter of how had nothing left for me and not. But um, I just think it's the way as I did it, you know what I mean, the way I lost the weight. I think that that was the main thing, the way I lost the weight. So going into this fight, do you do you feel differently? It was this a different level of preparation compared to say the Charlotte fight or any other fight where you didn't feel like he did it the right way. You think you did it the right way. And yeah, but I think for sure, though, Chris, because most of the time when I'm running, when they called me for a fight, I don't even be doing nothing. I don't do shit until they called me, you know what I mean, Until they called me said I gotta fight, you know what I mean. So but with this time, around. I was training like three weeks before they even called me, like I just had started running. And you know me, me me training Alicia. When she ran, I ran, you know what I I mean. When I had to get her up in the morning to go round, I was just wrong with her, you know what I mean. So it just it, it was just the extra the extra boost, the motivation for me to do it myself and get up out of the bed myself and just say, even though you're gonna fight, I'm gonna go wrong with her, you know me, go train with her, you know what I mean. And I had already started like three weeks before and in the mind, and when when I started training with her, my mind automatically put me in and put the fucking drinking down. I stopped drinking three weeks left, three weeks when I started training work. I started smoking hooka three weeks when I started training work. So I really put my mind in this in the state of get your body in shape. At the moment, why are you training work? Just get your body in shape. You don't got to be training for a fight. Just get your body in shape. Now that you now that you you know it's that's sometimes we just need the extra push. And that was my extra mother. Basically get off the couch just to train with hurt, you know, I mean, I got the extra motivation. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I got off the couch, and like I didn't focus myself these camp. This camp for me wasn't about me using this camp to lose weight, like a lot of times I'm taking cap to lose weight, like not even focusing on skill, not focusing on the task at helping me become the better athlete in the ring. But I'm focused on and breaking my body down from one aid and getting getting it back down to one four, getting from one seventy five get in the back to one fifty four. But when they called me, I was once sixty four already, you know what I'm saying. So I was already ten pounds I would wait, So I wasn't. I was right the air, you know what I mean. So I had the prep racing. I had already prepared myself mentally, had already took me to a point where I didn't have to train where I'm losing weight. Like I wasn't training losing weight. I was training and I was sharpening, the sharpening tools up, you know what I mean. So I think that was just the biggest difference from me. I do love the bond that you and Alicia formed, you know during your time together, both both in terms of chemistry with in terms of boxing and trainer. But you know her going to WBC convention standing up and say no, no, no, don't look over Tony Harrison. He's ready to fight. I mean, what's it been like for you? What's it been like for you over the last year or so as you've been maintaining your boxing career. But to be the chief second for a unified championship with Alicia michaela Mayor, and then to be a master Square Garden when Alicia won the undispeeded championship, to be the person in her corner um. To be honest, man, if it wasn't for her, I probably wouldn't. I probably couldn't have had accepted this fight at the moment, you know what I mean, Like I probably would have said, like no, I just ain't ready, I'm not ready, you know what I mean, because it would have took so much, It would it would have took me so much longer to prepare my body, preparing my mind to get ready for a fight like this. But because not only me but boxing, Like I said, boxing has been slow for me and in general, you know what I mean, So they would they like, do you expect me to go in the gym spar hit the bag when I don't even have a destination to why I'm hitting the bag? You know what I mean? Do you expect me to get off the couch and and I have fun? My boys don't go to the club, don't go party, and I'm young for for what for nothing? To not look towards nothing. So um, boxing for me was slow, but for her was busy, you know what I mean. So for for for me to just work with her, it just was like, man, this is my time to get myself back and shake, you know what I mean. If it wasn't for her, I probably just been chilling, you know what I mean, Like you know what I mean. So it was just like it worked hand to hand and yeah, and not only that, man, it just gives me a different perspective on how I look at how my brother speaks to me when I speak to her, because I'm like, okay, when I speak to her and I tell her stuff and I'm like, m that's why my brother told me that, or that's why I get it. Now Now I'm on the flip side of them. And then I'm watching myself and I'm watching myself in a moment sometime when I'm watching her, I watched myself and I'm like, damn, okay, I get it. Nah, I get you know, I get why you told me that. Okay, because I'm telling to her this maybe in a different manner, but you know, I revert back to it. I'm like, damn, Okay, that's why my brother said that, you know what I mean, that's what he see. You know what I mean. That's that's why he saw that. That's why he told me to throw that because you see it and then I maybe don't see it at the moment, because sometimes you don't see it at the moment. But also like not only me and my brother, Like me and my dad used to argue a lot. And I don't know if that came from um, you know, just father son relationships, but UM like this camp for me, I didn't argue with my brother no one time. I didn't like like no, like I didn't you know I would, I didn't I didn't. I didn't disagree with not one thing he said because I was a coach. Because I became a coach, you know what I mean. And I'm like, Okay, I get it. You see it. You see stuff different than I see it at the moment. You know what I mean. I get it. You know what I mean that I get it and I see it, And And there's it's no arguments for me. It's no you need me to go climbing this tree, all right? Which one? You know what I'm saying. They used to be like, man, why am I climbing this street? Like you know what I'm saying. I don't see it. I don't see the top of it yet, you know, But why am I? You know what I mean? So it just gives me a whole different respected man. And and and training for me is just evaluating my mind different as a fighter, you know what I mean. So I'm able to understand that everything I may not see at the moment as a fighter, that if he gives it to me, he sees that as a train and I gotta trust that. Well Tony, good luck to you. On Saturday down in Australia, man, I had somebody in boxing call me, uh this week and say, like who you got in the Harrison's Zoo fight. I'm like, I got Tony Harrison, And this guy's like you've been picking Tony Harrison every fight for like ten years now. Man, I'm like, I love Tony Harrison. That's my guy. I'm always picking and always pouring Tony Chris. But the thing gets Chris though. It's not even like we just but like you my guy. Like I tell everybody like I told if you like that's my guy, that Chris is my guy. So it's not even that, it's like, um, like Chris ain't dumb, Like you know what I'm saying, Like, like every fight that I've lost, I was winning every single one of them. I was winning like anything, like like this guy's a bum more like her fight winning Nelson fight winning Charlie fight. I thought I was winning, you know what I'm saying. Like, so every fight that I'm in, even though the outcome didn't come my way, I was landslide these motherfuckers though I was landslide. You know what I'm saying, Like it takes it takes talent to do that, man, And you know what I'm saying, Like people are like people gotta understand, like that guy is talented, and like that guy, that guy right there is talented. You know what I'm saying. Whether you like me, whether you hate me, where I talked shit, that guy talented, man, you know what I'm saying. And it takes a certain kind of different kind of talent to beat me, you know what I'm saying. So not Chris, not only my boy, but Chris Mark. Chris understand that that guy comes from Detroit, from a culture in a rich state of boxing where if you're gonna beat that man, you gotta be better than that man. And I just don't think Tim is that guy. It's simple, Hey, there was there was nobody in boxing I respected more than Emmanuel Stewart. And he would all those trips. He would always tell me, like watch Tony, watch Tony. He's got it. He's the goods, He's the real deal. So if if it's an easy belief, man, let'sten meet. He was the only genie in box. He was the only genie. He was the only the wizard man. He was the only wizard that told me, told us Tyson Fury would be champion before his Tyan Fury was champion. He was the only wizard that said De Wiardo would be champion. For Wardo champion. And that's you know. He was the only wizard that said Andy Lee would be champion. He was the only wizard that said that Donna Stevenson will be like he grabbed these guys. Man, when he grabbed him and he touched them, they became exactly what he said it would be, you know what I mean. So he didn't put his hands on everything, but when he put he put his hands on it, it was golden man. And he was the wizard Man. And I missed my boy, Me too, Me too, Man. Good luck on Saturday, Tony, all the best and we'll talk to you after my dog and when we come back. This week's picks brought to you by fan Duel. All right, time now for this week's picks brought to you by our friends over at fan Duel. And I hope you bet with me last week because last week I had another double win. I told you to take Brandon figure Rower to win. That wouldn't have won you much. I told you to take Brandon figure Rower to win by decision that would have won you more. I bet on it I made some money. Hope you did too. This week over in Australia the junior middleweight division, Tony Harrison Tim Zoo interim title at one hundred and fifty four pounds and I am once again going with an underdog. I am going with Tony Harrison to win this fight. Right now, Tony Harrison is at plus one seventy two over at fan duel. That's an underdog bet to be sure, and Harrison by decision, which is how I think this is gonna end plus three fifty. So right now, get on the fan duel app bet Tony Harrison by decision plus three fifty. If you want to go a little bit more conservative, take Tony Harrison to win. Either way, you're gonna win money. Either way, you're gonna win because I think Tony Harrison is a level above Tim Zoo and as long as his conditioning is right, his chin holds up, I think he out boxes Tim Zoo to a decision. Those are my picks, Get on them. Brought to you by Fantol. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Gareth A. Davies and Tony Harrison for joining the show. As always, subscribe rate review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you download podcast. Next week we will be in Los Angeles where I will track down Sergio Mora Mannix. I'm a man on the run and I'm not doing your fucking podcast. We're not doing it, Bro, I'm a man on the run, on the run, the volume