Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg BusinessWeek with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio. Well.

Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg BusinessWeek with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio. Well.

As Carol just mentioned, the President did sign an executive action aimed at closing the Education Department. You're going to get much more coverage on that on Balance of Power starting at five pm Wall Street Time with Joe Matthew a little later in the day. In the meantime, there's perhaps no greater mystery in the world of cryptocurrency than the identity of one Satoshi Nakamoto. Is it one? Is it a man? Is it a woman? Is it even a person? That's because Satoshi Nakamoto is widely seen as the creator of bitcoin. It's thought that his or her there bitcoin wallet contains up to one point one million coins, which yes, could be worth somewhere in the neighborhood of one hundred billion dollars. Benjamin Wallace may have found some answers. He's been looking for Satoshi all the way back to twenty eleven, and he's the author of a new book, The Mysterious Mister Nakamoto, a fifteen year quest to unmask the secret genius behind crypto. Benjamin also the author of the New York Times bestseller of The Billionaire's Vinegar, and he's written for New York Vanity, fair Wired, and more. He joins us from New Jersey. So did you find Satoshi Nakamoto? Benjamin?

As Carol just mentioned, the President did sign an executive action aimed at closing the Education Department. You're going to get much more coverage on that on Balance of Power starting at five pm Wall Street Time with Joe Matthew a little later in the day. In the meantime, there's perhaps no greater mystery in the world of cryptocurrency than the identity of one Satoshi Nakamoto. Is it one? Is it a man? Is it a woman? Is it even a person? That's because Satoshi Nakamoto is widely seen as the creator of bitcoin. It's thought that his or her there bitcoin wallet contains up to one point one million coins, which yes, could be worth somewhere in the neighborhood of one hundred billion dollars. Benjamin Wallace may have found some answers. He's been looking for Satoshi all the way back to twenty eleven, and he's the author of a new book, The Mysterious Mister Nakamoto, a fifteen year quest to unmask the secret genius behind crypto. Benjamin also the author of the New York Times bestseller of The Billionaire's Vinegar, and he's written for New York Vanity, fair Wired, and more. He joins us from New Jersey. So did you find Satoshi Nakamoto? Benjamin?

Well, thanks for having me. Did I find Satoshi? I found many Satoshi's. I don't land on a mathematical proof of a single name that you can point to, but I explore a lot of candidates very thoroughly, and I think you finished the book able to draw your own conclusions. And I look at the group possibility. I look at the possibility that it came out of the NSA. I look at the possibility that it could be, you know, an old sort of cryptographer from the nineties, or someone much newer on the scene who no one's ever heard of.

Well, thanks for having me. Did I find Satoshi? I found many Satoshi's. I don't land on a mathematical proof of a single name that you can point to, but I explore a lot of candidates very thoroughly, and I think you finished the book able to draw your own conclusions. And I look at the group possibility. I look at the possibility that it came out of the NSA. I look at the possibility that it could be, you know, an old sort of cryptographer from the nineties, or someone much newer on the scene who no one's ever heard of.

Which one do you think it is? Of all of those?

Which one do you think it is? Of all of those?

This is going to be unsatisfying, But I really there's a few maybe favored theories. And okay, one of them is a beloved no longer with us, cipher punk as they called them, named how Finni, who was the very first person to transact with Satoshi Nakamoto on the Bitcoin network. Another is an obscure cipher punk who is sort of a recluse, who lives in Australia, who has not been focused on previously, and who, unlike how Finni is, is sort of on the other end of the spectrum in terms of likability. Let's say, so he would be kind of a shocking Satoshi because he's not the benevolent god that bitcoiners like to imagine Satoshi must be.

This is going to be unsatisfying, But I really there's a few maybe favored theories. And okay, one of them is a beloved no longer with us, cipher punk as they called them, named how Finni, who was the very first person to transact with Satoshi Nakamoto on the Bitcoin network. Another is an obscure cipher punk who is sort of a recluse, who lives in Australia, who has not been focused on previously, and who, unlike how Finni is, is sort of on the other end of the spectrum in terms of likability. Let's say, so he would be kind of a shocking Satoshi because he's not the benevolent god that bitcoiners like to imagine Satoshi must be.

That would be Jans A. Donald.

That would be Jans A. Donald.

That would be James A. Donald exactly.

That would be James A. Donald exactly.

Do you think that Satoshi is an individual or do you think Satoshi's a group.

Do you think that Satoshi is an individual or do you think Satoshi's a group.

I think that if Satoshi is a group, then that would actually point towards potentially an intelligence organization being the source of bitcoin, because outside of intelligence organizations, where obviously groups or groups hold secrets all the time that do not leak. Outside of those agencies, it's almost impossible for group secrets to remain secret. And you know, seventeen years after Satoshi Nakamoto first came on the scene and announced bitcoin, no one has come forward to say, oh, yeah, you know, my ex husband invented it, or my ex business partner invented it, or my estranged sibling invented it, and there's just I find it very unlikely that a group could hold the secret.

I think that if Satoshi is a group, then that would actually point towards potentially an intelligence organization being the source of bitcoin, because outside of intelligence organizations, where obviously groups or groups hold secrets all the time that do not leak. Outside of those agencies, it's almost impossible for group secrets to remain secret. And you know, seventeen years after Satoshi Nakamoto first came on the scene and announced bitcoin, no one has come forward to say, oh, yeah, you know, my ex husband invented it, or my ex business partner invented it, or my estranged sibling invented it, and there's just I find it very unlikely that a group could hold the secret.

Okay, so this may be blasphemous, but our blasphemy. Why does it matter that we figure out Benjamin his identity.

Okay, so this may be blasphemous, but our blasphemy. Why does it matter that we figure out Benjamin his identity.

Well, no, what you're saying is the opposite of blasphemy. My saying it matters is the blasphemy. Like bitcoiners will tell you that the world should not know who Satocianakamoto is. I have two answers to that. One is that I think we've all seen recently how the richest person in the world can affect a lot of people's lives other than themselves. And Satoshi Nakamoto right now with one point one million bitcoins would be in the twenty richest people in the world, and Bitcoin would only have to go up, you know, by a multiple of two or three to suddenly make Satoshian Akimoti the richest person in the world. So that's one reason. The other reason is until we know definitively who Satoshi Nakamoto is and what their agenda and intentions are, we cannot assume that they are, you know, ones that everyone would like. Let's say it turned out that Satoci Nakamoto is a plan by the Chinese Communist Party to destabilize the dollar. Should we just leave them alone and defer to their wish for anonymity?

Well, no, what you're saying is the opposite of blasphemy. My saying it matters is the blasphemy. Like bitcoiners will tell you that the world should not know who Satocianakamoto is. I have two answers to that. One is that I think we've all seen recently how the richest person in the world can affect a lot of people's lives other than themselves. And Satoshi Nakamoto right now with one point one million bitcoins would be in the twenty richest people in the world, and Bitcoin would only have to go up, you know, by a multiple of two or three to suddenly make Satoshian Akimoti the richest person in the world. So that's one reason. The other reason is until we know definitively who Satoshi Nakamoto is and what their agenda and intentions are, we cannot assume that they are, you know, ones that everyone would like. Let's say it turned out that Satoci Nakamoto is a plan by the Chinese Communist Party to destabilize the dollar. Should we just leave them alone and defer to their wish for anonymity?

Can you remind everybody why the origin of bitcoin is associated with Satoshi?

Can you remind everybody why the origin of bitcoin is associated with Satoshi?

Sure? So, the way bitcoin was first announced was on this kind of obscure cryptography list serve or message board by someone using the name Satoshi Nakamoto. And on that message board, no one had ever heard this name that they just assumed it was someone they'd never heard of, or it was an Internet alias. And then eventually that same person or alias launched the bitcoin software onto the Internet.

Sure? So, the way bitcoin was first announced was on this kind of obscure cryptography list serve or message board by someone using the name Satoshi Nakamoto. And on that message board, no one had ever heard this name that they just assumed it was someone they'd never heard of, or it was an Internet alias. And then eventually that same person or alias launched the bitcoin software onto the Internet.

You know, it's just kind of interesting, Tim, and I have so many interviews on the world of crypto and people so convinced that this is the way forward, and yet there's just so many questions. And I think part of the mystique right of digital currencies is that there is this mystique that we don't necessarily who started it, and you know, it's kind of outside the traditional financial infrastructure. How do you see, you know, since you started writing in whir your first feature on bitcoin twenty eleven, many years ago, now at this point, how do you think about the digital world the digital currency world today.

You know, it's just kind of interesting, Tim, and I have so many interviews on the world of crypto and people so convinced that this is the way forward, and yet there's just so many questions. And I think part of the mystique right of digital currencies is that there is this mystique that we don't necessarily who started it, and you know, it's kind of outside the traditional financial infrastructure. How do you see, you know, since you started writing in whir your first feature on bitcoin twenty eleven, many years ago, now at this point, how do you think about the digital world the digital currency world today.

Sure.

Sure.

Well, first, I'd also say the anonymity or pseudonymity and unknowness of Satoshi I think has been an incredible marketing coup for Bitcoin because it's very on brand. The whole idea that bitcoin has no leader fits perfectly with the idea that we don't know who the leader is the crypto world in general and the digital currency world in general today I think of as quite far removed from where it started. I mean, it began as a sort of libertarian friendly project just with Bitcoin. Now there's something like over according to coinbase, over eleven thousand different cryptocurrencies. Obviously, crypto broadly has a fairly checkered reputation because of all the scamminess over the years with some of the especially the the non bitcoin cryptocurrencies. But I continue to think it's an extremely fascinating and promising technology that may just not have found its killer use case yet. I mean, AI started in the nineteen fifties. For decades people assumed, since nothing has happened with it yet, nothing is going to happen with it that is consequential, And obviously we now know AI is extremely consequential, and I think it's entirely possible something similar could happen with bitcoin and crypto.

Well, first, I'd also say the anonymity or pseudonymity and unknowness of Satoshi I think has been an incredible marketing coup for Bitcoin because it's very on brand. The whole idea that bitcoin has no leader fits perfectly with the idea that we don't know who the leader is the crypto world in general and the digital currency world in general today I think of as quite far removed from where it started. I mean, it began as a sort of libertarian friendly project just with Bitcoin. Now there's something like over according to coinbase, over eleven thousand different cryptocurrencies. Obviously, crypto broadly has a fairly checkered reputation because of all the scamminess over the years with some of the especially the the non bitcoin cryptocurrencies. But I continue to think it's an extremely fascinating and promising technology that may just not have found its killer use case yet. I mean, AI started in the nineteen fifties. For decades people assumed, since nothing has happened with it yet, nothing is going to happen with it that is consequential, And obviously we now know AI is extremely consequential, and I think it's entirely possible something similar could happen with bitcoin and crypto.

All right, we unfortunately have to leave it there, but Benjamin, we hope you'll come back real soon so that we can continue this conversation because it's really fascinating when your take on it. In particular, Benjamin Wallace, thank you. His new book is The Mysterious Mister Nakamoto, A fifteen year quest to unmask the secret genius behind Crypto, joining us there in New Jersey,

All right, we unfortunately have to leave it there, but Benjamin, we hope you'll come back real soon so that we can continue this conversation because it's really fascinating when your take on it. In particular, Benjamin Wallace, thank you. His new book is The Mysterious Mister Nakamoto, A fifteen year quest to unmask the secret genius behind Crypto, joining us there in New Jersey,