Welcome to season six of the Black Hills and Tractoriis podcasts, brought to you by us in Real Women.

Welcome to season six of the Black Hills and Tractoriis podcasts, brought to you by us in Real Women.

New Zealand.

New Zealand.

This season on the podcast, we are interviewing the ogs, the badass ladies of the agricultural world, the ones who, in my case, you might see at a conference get all nervous and flustered. You might embarrass yourself in front of them, because that's that amazing.

This season on the podcast, we are interviewing the ogs, the badass ladies of the agricultural world, the ones who, in my case, you might see at a conference get all nervous and flustered. You might embarrass yourself in front of them, because that's that amazing.

The theme of this season is the big stuff, the juicy topics, like how they got into leadership positions, what it means to be a CEO, how you add value around a board table, and has the agricultural industry actually changed does it even like females? All these things and more this season and these ladies do not hold back.

The theme of this season is the big stuff, the juicy topics, like how they got into leadership positions, what it means to be a CEO, how you add value around a board table, and has the agricultural industry actually changed does it even like females? All these things and more this season and these ladies do not hold back.

Look, we would love to hear from you, and even more, we would love for you to sign up as a member of Rural Women New Zealand. So check us out on our socials, give us a Google hit, the join bud it and help us make more of a difference for rural women across New Zealand.

Look, we would love to hear from you, and even more, we would love for you to sign up as a member of Rural Women New Zealand. So check us out on our socials, give us a Google hit, the join bud it and help us make more of a difference for rural women across New Zealand.

So jam in terms of in terms of your background, what is it that we need to know about you that has made you who you are today?

So jam in terms of in terms of your background, what is it that we need to know about you that has made you who you are today?

How are you?

How are you?

A good question I am. I think one of the big things is that I haven't done taken the conventional route I did have on my wall as a as a kid or as a teenager. Robert Frost's two roads diverged into a ward, and I I took the road left travel and that has made all the difference.

A good question I am. I think one of the big things is that I haven't done taken the conventional route I did have on my wall as a as a kid or as a teenager. Robert Frost's two roads diverged into a ward, and I I took the road left travel and that has made all the difference.

So I.

So I.

Probably started off as the third daughter and a family of four with the younger brother, so there was no pressure on me to do anything in particular, but lots of opportunity to decide what I wanted to do and how I did that. And I think that if I look back on my long career, I have really taken a few risks. I have definitely taken sideways moves. I've definitely taken roles that you'd wonder if I really could do them, but I did them anyway. I have definitely screwed up. I do say I'm quite good at apologizing because I actually screw up quite often. I have to, but that's okay. These days, I think you say you make mistakes rather than you screw up, and you learn from mistakes. But I also I have got lots of energy because I create that energy and that's really important to me. And I'm probably still learning, and I'm still putting myself out there and still looking back and saying how do I do this better? And how do I and for going forward, how do I say, what's my next step to help New Zealand and particularly help consum New Zealand.

Probably started off as the third daughter and a family of four with the younger brother, so there was no pressure on me to do anything in particular, but lots of opportunity to decide what I wanted to do and how I did that. And I think that if I look back on my long career, I have really taken a few risks. I have definitely taken sideways moves. I've definitely taken roles that you'd wonder if I really could do them, but I did them anyway. I have definitely screwed up. I do say I'm quite good at apologizing because I actually screw up quite often. I have to, but that's okay. These days, I think you say you make mistakes rather than you screw up, and you learn from mistakes. But I also I have got lots of energy because I create that energy and that's really important to me. And I'm probably still learning, and I'm still putting myself out there and still looking back and saying how do I do this better? And how do I and for going forward, how do I say, what's my next step to help New Zealand and particularly help consum New Zealand.

I enjoy that you've just talked about basically being a lifelong learner and just wanting to keep growing and developing and moving forward.

I enjoy that you've just talked about basically being a lifelong learner and just wanting to keep growing and developing and moving forward.

And we're going to come back to that.

And we're going to come back to that.

But before me delve into some of those juicy segues you've just given us around sideways, moves and resk and some of the some of the more memorable mistakes, can you just give us a quick highlight in terms of snapshot of your career. Where did you kind of start out and where have you just recently landed?

But before me delve into some of those juicy segues you've just given us around sideways, moves and resk and some of the some of the more memorable mistakes, can you just give us a quick highlight in terms of snapshot of your career. Where did you kind of start out and where have you just recently landed?

Sure, so I we I'm going back a long way. But we sold plums from my dad's from my mum and dad's place at the end of the gate every year, and when I was fifteen, we happened to have a really really good year. We made a ton of money, so much so that my dad said we'd need to put something in shares. So we went to his stockbroker, a very male, dark office, and I bought shares, and therefore I had the I got the annual report each year and those came in and they were a glossy, nice, glossy brochure and at the back it had the name the directors and photos, and quite a lot of them had ACA or LLB on them, as in a chartered accountant or a lawyer. And I went, I could do that. So I had thought to follow my dad into medicine, but I was actually getting a bit lazy by my ten years. So I went to UNI and did an accounting degree. I was really good at accounting, so I did not work very hard. Got my accounting degree and it's been a great backbone, but I've never been a practicing accountant. But then went into a couple of jobs at IBM at Unialiba a bit boring. So at twenty three I headed off to London. My sister was already there. Got a job at a merchant bank for a two week temp job that ended up for a year. Big bang happened, lots happening. Sister got married. Tim back to New Zealand, had three weeks after the wedding rung my boss in London taken up a job back because I was a bit bored, went back and did nine years in London and merchant banking, met my husband. He transferred to Munich, where I didn't want to go because I'd just been promoted. But interesting, I don't quite know what happened, but he went. I was pregnant in London for six months and then joined him for maternity leave, which became a career break, three years in Germany, had my first baby in German, which I would not definitely would not recommend, and then was going back to my job in London and I but we wanted another child. I didn't really want to work and commute in London. So we said to our packers that were packing us up from Munich to go back to London, do you ship to New Zealand? They said, I think that I could hear them flicking the pages of like where's New Zealand and anyway? So we five days later We're going to New Zealand and not London. Took a year off, had Molly in New Zealand's second daughter, and then and actually while I was nine months pregnant. I was going door knocking to see if I can get a job job, applied for lots of jobs and didn't. Then he didn't even get interviews. And then got a little job at a financial planner because I've been a merchant banking but they actually expect the medita of the vacuuming at the end of a Friday. And then got a job at Keelfort, New Zealand, which became Zesbury very fast. Nine years there, saw a job for a diplomat in the paper, went to Germany as a diplomat for four years, got made redundant from my diploma diproclanetic role, and saw a job for the avocado industry and came back and had twelve and a half years and avocados.

Sure, so I we I'm going back a long way. But we sold plums from my dad's from my mum and dad's place at the end of the gate every year, and when I was fifteen, we happened to have a really really good year. We made a ton of money, so much so that my dad said we'd need to put something in shares. So we went to his stockbroker, a very male, dark office, and I bought shares, and therefore I had the I got the annual report each year and those came in and they were a glossy, nice, glossy brochure and at the back it had the name the directors and photos, and quite a lot of them had ACA or LLB on them, as in a chartered accountant or a lawyer. And I went, I could do that. So I had thought to follow my dad into medicine, but I was actually getting a bit lazy by my ten years. So I went to UNI and did an accounting degree. I was really good at accounting, so I did not work very hard. Got my accounting degree and it's been a great backbone, but I've never been a practicing accountant. But then went into a couple of jobs at IBM at Unialiba a bit boring. So at twenty three I headed off to London. My sister was already there. Got a job at a merchant bank for a two week temp job that ended up for a year. Big bang happened, lots happening. Sister got married. Tim back to New Zealand, had three weeks after the wedding rung my boss in London taken up a job back because I was a bit bored, went back and did nine years in London and merchant banking, met my husband. He transferred to Munich, where I didn't want to go because I'd just been promoted. But interesting, I don't quite know what happened, but he went. I was pregnant in London for six months and then joined him for maternity leave, which became a career break, three years in Germany, had my first baby in German, which I would not definitely would not recommend, and then was going back to my job in London and I but we wanted another child. I didn't really want to work and commute in London. So we said to our packers that were packing us up from Munich to go back to London, do you ship to New Zealand? They said, I think that I could hear them flicking the pages of like where's New Zealand and anyway? So we five days later We're going to New Zealand and not London. Took a year off, had Molly in New Zealand's second daughter, and then and actually while I was nine months pregnant. I was going door knocking to see if I can get a job job, applied for lots of jobs and didn't. Then he didn't even get interviews. And then got a little job at a financial planner because I've been a merchant banking but they actually expect the medita of the vacuuming at the end of a Friday. And then got a job at Keelfort, New Zealand, which became Zesbury very fast. Nine years there, saw a job for a diplomat in the paper, went to Germany as a diplomat for four years, got made redundant from my diploma diproclanetic role, and saw a job for the avocado industry and came back and had twelve and a half years and avocados.

Wow, when I want to have your life, it sounds very fun and exciting, and I can see what you were meaning before. Around which way you know, twists and turns have have happened.

Wow, when I want to have your life, it sounds very fun and exciting, and I can see what you were meaning before. Around which way you know, twists and turns have have happened.

Just a quick side note. Do you speak German at all?

Just a quick side note. Do you speak German at all?

Did? I learned German twice? But and I was I did my going away speak four New Zealand. I have a card at my party last Thursday, and I thought, I always get nervous doing speeches, even though I've made it done a lot. But remember last time I was doing it in front of about seventy diplomats in German, so this was easy. So yes, I did. But I'm not a linguist and I had ten years off between my role my two terms times in Germany, and I forgot it all so I and it doesn't just come back when you're an adult. Well it might to brainy people, but didn't to me. But I relearned and that was quite good.

Did? I learned German twice? But and I was I did my going away speak four New Zealand. I have a card at my party last Thursday, and I thought, I always get nervous doing speeches, even though I've made it done a lot. But remember last time I was doing it in front of about seventy diplomats in German, so this was easy. So yes, I did. But I'm not a linguist and I had ten years off between my role my two terms times in Germany, and I forgot it all so I and it doesn't just come back when you're an adult. Well it might to brainy people, but didn't to me. But I relearned and that was quite good.

I love that I speak a bit of French, and I studied it for an embarrassingly.

I love that I speak a bit of French, and I studied it for an embarrassingly.

Long time for my competency.

Long time for my competency.

But I just want to pick up on these kind of twists and turns that you had in your career because it really interests me how you got these different roles, because they feel like there was a few that were sort of broadly in a similar space but also quite different from each other. And I want to hear a little bit about your interview planning and how you got into some of these roles because they just sound so interesting.

But I just want to pick up on these kind of twists and turns that you had in your career because it really interests me how you got these different roles, because they feel like there was a few that were sort of broadly in a similar space but also quite different from each other. And I want to hear a little bit about your interview planning and how you got into some of these roles because they just sound so interesting.

So, yeah, can you tell us a little bit about that, Tony.

So, yeah, can you tell us a little bit about that, Tony.

I can. I can tell you I hate interviews, interviews, I'm I allowed to say the word. You feel like you prostitute yourself on the table, right, you have to say, whoa, this is what? This is amazing. I am unbelievably amazing. Though I did hear we did I was. I listened to a podcast with Sarah rob o'hagen, who's a New Zealander doing amazing bad Arts Women in the States, and she said she's had a couple of super super duper CEO roles and has crashed and burned and then had to go and apply for another job. And she's done it twice, she said. The first time she said, oh, she had to explain why she had three months off and you know, like try to cover it all up. Second time said you want to see, I've had a break in my career. I was out there. I failed. It was way out of line. I learned this, this and this, and I'm taking these learnings for this new job. But I don't like interviews, but I prepare for them. I do lots of homework for them. And interestingly, you can ask all these questions and they tell you, right, there's no disclosure information disclosure thing. They tell you lots about the role. I've sort of had a rule that every couple of years you have to do an interview because they're horrible because you have to prepare yourself, you have to explain yourself. It's a really good self learning to say, how do how do I describe my last ten, five, ten, twenty years. It's a very good and you're with people you don't know often or you do know, it's even worse. So I've actually applied for a lot more jobs than I've ever got and also a learning because you get that sorry, you weren't successful this time. And I've also interviewed quite a lot of people as well, and so you learn to be a better interviewer because you work out what they learned about you that you actually didn't want to share but apparently did it. So I and I have moved countries, so I've had to get a new role. I haven't necessarily had a new role when I've moved or when I've been needing to move, so I have I think when I got back from the Germany the first time I've been a director of a merchant bank in London, I was a trained accountant. I've been at IBM immunion lever in New Zealand. I sent forty one applications off and I did not get one interview, So you know, it's not I've One of the things I know about myself is that I work really hard and I do my homework, and I if I want to get somewhere, I really work for it. I'm not I don't think I was fantastic at anything. Every single thing you have to say, Okay, how do I make this happen? What do I need to do to make this happen?

I can. I can tell you I hate interviews, interviews, I'm I allowed to say the word. You feel like you prostitute yourself on the table, right, you have to say, whoa, this is what? This is amazing. I am unbelievably amazing. Though I did hear we did I was. I listened to a podcast with Sarah rob o'hagen, who's a New Zealander doing amazing bad Arts Women in the States, and she said she's had a couple of super super duper CEO roles and has crashed and burned and then had to go and apply for another job. And she's done it twice, she said. The first time she said, oh, she had to explain why she had three months off and you know, like try to cover it all up. Second time said you want to see, I've had a break in my career. I was out there. I failed. It was way out of line. I learned this, this and this, and I'm taking these learnings for this new job. But I don't like interviews, but I prepare for them. I do lots of homework for them. And interestingly, you can ask all these questions and they tell you, right, there's no disclosure information disclosure thing. They tell you lots about the role. I've sort of had a rule that every couple of years you have to do an interview because they're horrible because you have to prepare yourself, you have to explain yourself. It's a really good self learning to say, how do how do I describe my last ten, five, ten, twenty years. It's a very good and you're with people you don't know often or you do know, it's even worse. So I've actually applied for a lot more jobs than I've ever got and also a learning because you get that sorry, you weren't successful this time. And I've also interviewed quite a lot of people as well, and so you learn to be a better interviewer because you work out what they learned about you that you actually didn't want to share but apparently did it. So I and I have moved countries, so I've had to get a new role. I haven't necessarily had a new role when I've moved or when I've been needing to move, so I have I think when I got back from the Germany the first time I've been a director of a merchant bank in London, I was a trained accountant. I've been at IBM immunion lever in New Zealand. I sent forty one applications off and I did not get one interview, So you know, it's not I've One of the things I know about myself is that I work really hard and I do my homework, and I if I want to get somewhere, I really work for it. I'm not I don't think I was fantastic at anything. Every single thing you have to say, Okay, how do I make this happen? What do I need to do to make this happen?

Yeah, But one of the other things you said at the start, which really intrigued me was I've asked myself many times can I really do this? But then I went ahead and did it anyway. And I'd like to ask some specifics about that, because I think everybody has a little bit of that sort of imposter syndrome, and it's a real particular thing for women to have, particularly women that.

Yeah, But one of the other things you said at the start, which really intrigued me was I've asked myself many times can I really do this? But then I went ahead and did it anyway. And I'd like to ask some specifics about that, because I think everybody has a little bit of that sort of imposter syndrome, and it's a real particular thing for women to have, particularly women that.

Are taking senior leadership type roles.

Are taking senior leadership type roles.

So what did you mean by that and how did you overcome those challenges?

So what did you mean by that and how did you overcome those challenges?

I mean, I think at the end of the day is I know myself pretty well now, and I I did the Agri Woman Development Trust Escalate a program in twenty nineteen, which was really fantastic for me. That I think it's that I know there are things I do really well there. I know there are things that I do, provided i'd do the work to do them. I speak well these days, provided I've done written my speech, provided I've practiced it, but provided I'm saying stories that actually mean something to me. Right, But if you get me out to talk about something that's not really a passion, I won't do it very well. So I and even where I've not achieved what I wanted to achieve, I'll look back and go, yeah, because I wasn't brave enough to bring people that I should have to get them on board. I wasn't brave enough to rely on other people. I wasn't. I didn't do things that when I look back, I go, Okay, that was just I did. I can figure out what I didn't do well enough that meant I didn't succeed in what I was trying to do.

I mean, I think at the end of the day is I know myself pretty well now, and I I did the Agri Woman Development Trust Escalate a program in twenty nineteen, which was really fantastic for me. That I think it's that I know there are things I do really well there. I know there are things that I do, provided i'd do the work to do them. I speak well these days, provided I've done written my speech, provided I've practiced it, but provided I'm saying stories that actually mean something to me. Right, But if you get me out to talk about something that's not really a passion, I won't do it very well. So I and even where I've not achieved what I wanted to achieve, I'll look back and go, yeah, because I wasn't brave enough to bring people that I should have to get them on board. I wasn't brave enough to rely on other people. I wasn't. I didn't do things that when I look back, I go, Okay, that was just I did. I can figure out what I didn't do well enough that meant I didn't succeed in what I was trying to do.

All of that makes sense, and I love that I resonate with that. Quite personally, I like to think of myself as a bit of a battler, So I've got to do a lot of the prep work, a lot of the mahi, but I do find it comes out and emerges as confidence, and that's just kind of how I operate, So I love that someone else.

All of that makes sense, and I love that I resonate with that. Quite personally, I like to think of myself as a bit of a battler, So I've got to do a lot of the prep work, a lot of the mahi, but I do find it comes out and emerges as confidence, and that's just kind of how I operate, So I love that someone else.

Does that as well.

Does that as well.

Segueing now into the industry, how do you think the industry has changed over time when it comes to women and leadership positions? Because if I take a look around and there doesn't seem to be well, it depends on which point in time you're referring to, but it seems as though there could be a little bit more work done there. How do you feel about women and leadership positions in the industry.

Segueing now into the industry, how do you think the industry has changed over time when it comes to women and leadership positions? Because if I take a look around and there doesn't seem to be well, it depends on which point in time you're referring to, but it seems as though there could be a little bit more work done there. How do you feel about women and leadership positions in the industry.

I think the woman I know in leadership positions are the best in leadership positions. I think we are not doing well. When I left this, every one of the most common things my colleague said was, oh, Jen, you were our next, our best hope to have a woman on the executive team, right, And they have got a few women on the executive team. They've still only got one board member who's a female. When I look around at horticulture sectors and i'm in that area, often there's a lot of the workers like me leading our sectors or our sector bodies, But we're all reporting to boards dominated by males. We got three women on them. He's in the Avocada board for a while. And the ones that are just stepping up that you don't see any women who aren't terrific stepping up and wait until they are really really ready and you know that they're going to win before they step up, and that might not be happening. So it's definitely still male dominated at a governor level, it's still mail dominated at a in the field level. It's an amazing career for women, and it's a yeah, And I don't quite know how we get more school girls interested in horticulture because we've got some great role models, the Younger of the Year and the Bay of Plenty. I think we've had four out of five of the last years have been amazing women. And how do we keep getting that going? And how do we encourage women that aren't already at the top to put their name forward, maybe not to get in, but to keep putting the name up there.

I think the woman I know in leadership positions are the best in leadership positions. I think we are not doing well. When I left this, every one of the most common things my colleague said was, oh, Jen, you were our next, our best hope to have a woman on the executive team, right, And they have got a few women on the executive team. They've still only got one board member who's a female. When I look around at horticulture sectors and i'm in that area, often there's a lot of the workers like me leading our sectors or our sector bodies, But we're all reporting to boards dominated by males. We got three women on them. He's in the Avocada board for a while. And the ones that are just stepping up that you don't see any women who aren't terrific stepping up and wait until they are really really ready and you know that they're going to win before they step up, and that might not be happening. So it's definitely still male dominated at a governor level, it's still mail dominated at a in the field level. It's an amazing career for women, and it's a yeah, And I don't quite know how we get more school girls interested in horticulture because we've got some great role models, the Younger of the Year and the Bay of Plenty. I think we've had four out of five of the last years have been amazing women. And how do we keep getting that going? And how do we encourage women that aren't already at the top to put their name forward, maybe not to get in, but to keep putting the name up there.

Maybe it's a confidence thing, like some of the answers that you've just mentioned about women waiting till they're really really ready, so they're really certain they've got all their ducks in a row, and then they'll put their hand up because they think they've got a really good chance of winning.

Maybe it's a confidence thing, like some of the answers that you've just mentioned about women waiting till they're really really ready, so they're really certain they've got all their ducks in a row, and then they'll put their hand up because they think they've got a really good chance of winning.

Maybe it's a confidence thing. Maybe it's a.

Maybe it's a confidence thing. Maybe it's a.

Combination of confidence and then shifting things so that it is.

Combination of confidence and then shifting things so that it is.

By design a little bit more.

By design a little bit more.

How does that fit with you as a CEO or someone who's been in that CEO position around ensuring that women get a fair chance by design.

How does that fit with you as a CEO or someone who's been in that CEO position around ensuring that women get a fair chance by design.

And if I look at my own team, I'm really proud of the responses, particularly in my leaving card, from my team and from the woman. And I look at one who's been I hope she won't mind, but she's been our receptionist and she's actually got a really good feel for numbers and they're accounting, and I'm obviously that's going to be a lost because I'm leaving. And so I've just specifically worked with her over the last couple of weeks because this is quite a new thing, and set down with her in my last couple of weeks and said, okay, let's go through and I'll show you how to do zero reports because you're able to do them, and she's doing them. And I send her a little note today because she's doing something that's out of her comfort zone today and so in the workplace, it's definitely possible. And we have a policy which I bought in and learning from Germany, if you're on maternity leave, when the pay run when you're when the pay changes go through, So we have a change of pay. If you're going to get a change of pay, it's from the first of May. If you're on maternity leave, you get the average percentage of the team. Right. So I've got two ladies to well, I've had four ladies on maternity leave over my time. One of them's just getting her third incremental pay rise even though she's on maternity leave, so she's not nine percent below her male colleagues and after three babies, you know, And it's so you can definitely bring in those changes. I I Yeah, when I interview people, I am very aware that women will never say they can speak French when they can't. I know males that do say that, right, And they have a couple of phrases that they can just pull out if they need to. And it's and even at work, I just you hear people. Yeah, I've been surrounded for a long time with the confidence of males and the lack of confidence and females. How do you change that. I don't know other than tick helping our female colleagues to do that and tearing for them when they tried and failed, because that's actually something that we can sort of laugh at ourselves. You know. Self depreciate is a good thing to be able to do as well. But we're definitely not there yet.

And if I look at my own team, I'm really proud of the responses, particularly in my leaving card, from my team and from the woman. And I look at one who's been I hope she won't mind, but she's been our receptionist and she's actually got a really good feel for numbers and they're accounting, and I'm obviously that's going to be a lost because I'm leaving. And so I've just specifically worked with her over the last couple of weeks because this is quite a new thing, and set down with her in my last couple of weeks and said, okay, let's go through and I'll show you how to do zero reports because you're able to do them, and she's doing them. And I send her a little note today because she's doing something that's out of her comfort zone today and so in the workplace, it's definitely possible. And we have a policy which I bought in and learning from Germany, if you're on maternity leave, when the pay run when you're when the pay changes go through, So we have a change of pay. If you're going to get a change of pay, it's from the first of May. If you're on maternity leave, you get the average percentage of the team. Right. So I've got two ladies to well, I've had four ladies on maternity leave over my time. One of them's just getting her third incremental pay rise even though she's on maternity leave, so she's not nine percent below her male colleagues and after three babies, you know, And it's so you can definitely bring in those changes. I I Yeah, when I interview people, I am very aware that women will never say they can speak French when they can't. I know males that do say that, right, And they have a couple of phrases that they can just pull out if they need to. And it's and even at work, I just you hear people. Yeah, I've been surrounded for a long time with the confidence of males and the lack of confidence and females. How do you change that. I don't know other than tick helping our female colleagues to do that and tearing for them when they tried and failed, because that's actually something that we can sort of laugh at ourselves. You know. Self depreciate is a good thing to be able to do as well. But we're definitely not there yet.

That I think.

That I think.

One of the other things I'm really curious about, since you've been so open about the idea of making mistakes and you know then figuring out how to do better next time, is what do you think makes a good leader?

One of the other things I'm really curious about, since you've been so open about the idea of making mistakes and you know then figuring out how to do better next time, is what do you think makes a good leader?

What does a good CEO look like? How do they deal with their team? And how is that successful? In your mind?

What does a good CEO look like? How do they deal with their team? And how is that successful? In your mind?

Oh? Hard question. I mean, I'm a CEO, but for a little industry body, I need to be the voice of the industry as well. You have to forever be learning listening. Every time you make a speech or do a do a presentation at the board meeting, you have to figure out what people how people are reacting to you. When you're having a team meeting, when you're having an individual meeting, you might have a plan of what you're going to say, but you have to figure out. You have to be engaged with what you say and what people here are definitely not always the same thing. It makes it hard when you're being interviewed, for example, on the radio, and it's on the phone and you can't see people. You know, that's probably something I've always I always have to walk around to get my brain going right because to make sure. But it's so as a leader, you have to be bold, you have to be you have to have a clear plan. People like to see that you're out there, that you've got a plan, that you're working to the plan. But they like to see a little bit of vulnerability. They like to know that you give a little bit of yourself away. You know. My team love that I run because I talk about it. They love that I've got two amazing daughters because I talk about them. They know that, if in doubt, make it pink because that'll make the boss happy. But they also know I really don't like it when you have inconsistent date formats in your AVOCN article. You know, So it's the people. I think. People like to know who you are and how you operate, and you know, as I left or even you know, people know when to come to me with a difficult problem or how to solve you know, what they might how they might need to set me up to hear something they know I might not want to hear, but they need to tell me and convince me otherwise. So I think as a leader, you do need a little bit of that vulnerability, let a little bit of yourself out there because people want to know you. But you also have to walk the talk. You have to be bold, you have to be brave, You have to have conversations that are tough, and you have to but consistency on your path and how you take that path and your behavior is really important.

Oh? Hard question. I mean, I'm a CEO, but for a little industry body, I need to be the voice of the industry as well. You have to forever be learning listening. Every time you make a speech or do a do a presentation at the board meeting, you have to figure out what people how people are reacting to you. When you're having a team meeting, when you're having an individual meeting, you might have a plan of what you're going to say, but you have to figure out. You have to be engaged with what you say and what people here are definitely not always the same thing. It makes it hard when you're being interviewed, for example, on the radio, and it's on the phone and you can't see people. You know, that's probably something I've always I always have to walk around to get my brain going right because to make sure. But it's so as a leader, you have to be bold, you have to be you have to have a clear plan. People like to see that you're out there, that you've got a plan, that you're working to the plan. But they like to see a little bit of vulnerability. They like to know that you give a little bit of yourself away. You know. My team love that I run because I talk about it. They love that I've got two amazing daughters because I talk about them. They know that, if in doubt, make it pink because that'll make the boss happy. But they also know I really don't like it when you have inconsistent date formats in your AVOCN article. You know, So it's the people. I think. People like to know who you are and how you operate, and you know, as I left or even you know, people know when to come to me with a difficult problem or how to solve you know, what they might how they might need to set me up to hear something they know I might not want to hear, but they need to tell me and convince me otherwise. So I think as a leader, you do need a little bit of that vulnerability, let a little bit of yourself out there because people want to know you. But you also have to walk the talk. You have to be bold, you have to be brave, You have to have conversations that are tough, and you have to but consistency on your path and how you take that path and your behavior is really important.

To thank you so much for all of your comments here and your openness with what you just shared with us, because hearing directly from you around your your your vulnerability, as you just spoke about your authenticity and how you show up to a job as a leader, and the examples that you've given around being bold and brave, I think are some of the key highlights for me here and and wrapping this up, I just wanted to ask one final comment from you, and obviously has been a change in your life lately, so really keen to hear what's what's next in the path of gen.

To thank you so much for all of your comments here and your openness with what you just shared with us, because hearing directly from you around your your your vulnerability, as you just spoke about your authenticity and how you show up to a job as a leader, and the examples that you've given around being bold and brave, I think are some of the key highlights for me here and and wrapping this up, I just wanted to ask one final comment from you, and obviously has been a change in your life lately, so really keen to hear what's what's next in the path of gen.

So I did attend two board meetings last night. I happened to have both of them at five thirty yesterday. So I so I am looking at a couple of options in Toronga or one's international, one's national. I have got a consultancy role with International Fresh Produce Association when I get back from Europe. But I go to Europe to see my daughters who are both in London on Friday week for five weeks, which was always planned, but it was going to be the day after the AGM. But I resigned a week before the AGM. Very good decision. And so I still I just want to look. I'm looking to see how I can utilize my energy, my experience, my passions to take another step to help New Zealand. I'm passionate about New Zealand. I've still got something about making sure New Zealand kids are fed that I haven't explored well enough yet and I am. But I'm also keen to have a bit of downtime and go for runs at quarter to nine in the morning and not at half about six in the morning, and also connects back with my friends because I've been pretty hopeless at that because I've been so busy.

So I did attend two board meetings last night. I happened to have both of them at five thirty yesterday. So I so I am looking at a couple of options in Toronga or one's international, one's national. I have got a consultancy role with International Fresh Produce Association when I get back from Europe. But I go to Europe to see my daughters who are both in London on Friday week for five weeks, which was always planned, but it was going to be the day after the AGM. But I resigned a week before the AGM. Very good decision. And so I still I just want to look. I'm looking to see how I can utilize my energy, my experience, my passions to take another step to help New Zealand. I'm passionate about New Zealand. I've still got something about making sure New Zealand kids are fed that I haven't explored well enough yet and I am. But I'm also keen to have a bit of downtime and go for runs at quarter to nine in the morning and not at half about six in the morning, and also connects back with my friends because I've been pretty hopeless at that because I've been so busy.

So many amazing things are going to come your way, I know, and the organizations that take you on are going to be very lucky to have your enthusiasm and your energy.

So many amazing things are going to come your way, I know, and the organizations that take you on are going to be very lucky to have your enthusiasm and your energy.

We would love to have you hear a Real Women New Zealand as well, because we have a really big cohort of people who work in that horticulture industry, so keep that in mind.

We would love to have you hear a Real Women New Zealand as well, because we have a really big cohort of people who work in that horticulture industry, so keep that in mind.

I'm sure going to have a cut of grower, so I've got.

I'm sure going to have a cut of grower, so I've got.

Used to me too, but I'm not a very good one.

Used to me too, but I'm not a very good one.

But maybe I'll get better when I've got more time. So thank you, wonderful, thank you.

But maybe I'll get better when I've got more time. So thank you, wonderful, thank you.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much.

Well that was it.

Well that was it.

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That's the podcast. That's us for today.

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