Hi.

Hi.

This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, and speaker.

This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, and speaker.

And this is Sarah Hart Hunger. I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. On the side, we are two working parents who love our careers and our families.

And this is Sarah Hart Hunger. I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. On the side, we are two working parents who love our careers and our families.

Welcome to best of both worlds.

Welcome to best of both worlds.

Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. We want you to get the most out of life.

Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. We want you to get the most out of life.

Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura.

Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura.

This is going to be an episode on things to consider if you are pondering having a third kid. We thought about calling it should you have a Third Kid? I guess that would be a little bit more straightforward of a title. But Sarah, I mean we get this question all the time, right, I mean this one even even just now. As we were coming up with notes for this one.

This is going to be an episode on things to consider if you are pondering having a third kid. We thought about calling it should you have a Third Kid? I guess that would be a little bit more straightforward of a title. But Sarah, I mean we get this question all the time, right, I mean this one even even just now. As we were coming up with notes for this one.

I was absolutely delighted to receive in my email inbox a very detailed question from a listener. I'm not going to share the name or anything, but I swear it was almost as if she had read this outline and was asking us to do this exact episode. She wanted to hear all about the pros and cons of having a third kid in terms of logistics and costs and positives. And I'm like, oh my god, that's coming out very soon. So it was a very timely request and it's a very common request. And I will add that I feel like most people who are asking people with at least three kids whether they should have a third probably have an answer they want to hear. And maybe if you're asking someone with one child, are you happy with one kid, then maybe you're like hoping to be like happy with a smaller family. Like like, I feel like there's a little bit of like leading the witness or something like.

I was absolutely delighted to receive in my email inbox a very detailed question from a listener. I'm not going to share the name or anything, but I swear it was almost as if she had read this outline and was asking us to do this exact episode. She wanted to hear all about the pros and cons of having a third kid in terms of logistics and costs and positives. And I'm like, oh my god, that's coming out very soon. So it was a very timely request and it's a very common request. And I will add that I feel like most people who are asking people with at least three kids whether they should have a third probably have an answer they want to hear. And maybe if you're asking someone with one child, are you happy with one kid, then maybe you're like hoping to be like happy with a smaller family. Like like, I feel like there's a little bit of like leading the witness or something like.

That, But that's okay.

That, But that's okay.

I feel like there's a lot to talk about, and I feel like we identified some things for this episode that aren't necessarily obvious things you might think about when it comes to having a third kid, but that we've learned by doing.

I feel like there's a lot to talk about, and I feel like we identified some things for this episode that aren't necessarily obvious things you might think about when it comes to having a third kid, but that we've learned by doing.

Yeah, well, you said.

Yeah, well, you said.

That having a third was possibly a little bit out of character for anyone who's just tuning in, like if a friend sent you this episode.

That having a third was possibly a little bit out of character for anyone who's just tuning in, like if a friend sent you this episode.

Sarah has three.

Sarah has three.

Children who are eleven, nine, and five.

Children who are eleven, nine, and five.

I have five.

I have five.

Children who are sixteen, thirteen, eleven, eight and three. So you said that, you know, and our littlest ones both came out in the course that we had this podcast. So we've in fact talked a little bit about this in the past. But Sarah, you said having a third may have been a little bit out of character for you.

Children who are sixteen, thirteen, eleven, eight and three. So you said that, you know, and our littlest ones both came out in the course that we had this podcast. So we've in fact talked a little bit about this in the past. But Sarah, you said having a third may have been a little bit out of character for you.

Yeah, I feel like I tend to like want things to be efficient and easier, Like I refuse to get a dog, for example, because I'm just like I can't even wrap my head around like all the things that that might entail work wise, and I'm like happy, you know, happy in my current situation, and like some might have applied that to a third child, right, Like I already had a decent sized family, and logistically and cost wise and all these other ways, having more children makes things harder than what might be seen as like this quote unquote standard or average number of kids. And yet I in like twenty sixteen, when Cameron was like he would have been like two and a half, I was just like overwhelmed with the desire for another child, and I just couldn't stop thinking about it, like the idea of like having this one more and I just didn't feel complete and I wanted a bigger family, and my feelings absolutely outweighed the kind of logical side of me. And I was reflecting on the fact that like I am an ees FJ in the Myers Briggs framework, and you might think I'm more of a TJ. I think my whole family identifies as something something TJ. But I'm an FDA And I listened to my heart and I'm so happy I did, and I'm glad my heart hasn't told me to have a fourth but it absolutely.

Yeah, I feel like I tend to like want things to be efficient and easier, Like I refuse to get a dog, for example, because I'm just like I can't even wrap my head around like all the things that that might entail work wise, and I'm like happy, you know, happy in my current situation, and like some might have applied that to a third child, right, Like I already had a decent sized family, and logistically and cost wise and all these other ways, having more children makes things harder than what might be seen as like this quote unquote standard or average number of kids. And yet I in like twenty sixteen, when Cameron was like he would have been like two and a half, I was just like overwhelmed with the desire for another child, and I just couldn't stop thinking about it, like the idea of like having this one more and I just didn't feel complete and I wanted a bigger family, and my feelings absolutely outweighed the kind of logical side of me. And I was reflecting on the fact that like I am an ees FJ in the Myers Briggs framework, and you might think I'm more of a TJ. I think my whole family identifies as something something TJ. But I'm an FDA And I listened to my heart and I'm so happy I did, and I'm glad my heart hasn't told me to have a fourth but it absolutely.

The heart keeps going like next thing, you know, it's like again again.

The heart keeps going like next thing, you know, it's like again again.

So yeah, yeah, I don't know.

So yeah, yeah, I don't know.

I mean, I guess I always wanted at least three, so the third one wasn't the big question.

I mean, I guess I always wanted at least three, so the third one wasn't the big question.

And then you know, you wound up with we wound up with five and the dogs. So here we go. It's just all chaotic over here.

And then you know, you wound up with we wound up with five and the dogs. So here we go. It's just all chaotic over here.

But there are definitely some things to consider. I mean, first, the cost. We do definitely live in a society where having children comes with certain costs. There is certain things that are the marginal costs. I guess, as they say, can decline on certain things. You know, once you get the Zoo family membership, you do not have to usually pay more for the second child or the third child versus the first. Many people do get the family car at some point, so if you already got the minivan when you had two kids, like putting the third in it isn't going to change that. But on the other hand, there's a lot of stuff that is set up for families that are roughly the size of for people, like most cars, because you put all three in car.

But there are definitely some things to consider. I mean, first, the cost. We do definitely live in a society where having children comes with certain costs. There is certain things that are the marginal costs. I guess, as they say, can decline on certain things. You know, once you get the Zoo family membership, you do not have to usually pay more for the second child or the third child versus the first. Many people do get the family car at some point, so if you already got the minivan when you had two kids, like putting the third in it isn't going to change that. But on the other hand, there's a lot of stuff that is set up for families that are roughly the size of for people, like most cars, because you put all three in car.

Seats across the back of your Prius for a while, right.

Seats across the back of your Prius for a while, right.

Yes, I'd like everyone to know that that is theoretically possible. The Diona Irradian car seats are narrow and you can fit three actual car seats in the back of the Preus, but at some point you will not want to because even if they physically fit, they're just too close to each other. And as they grow, it's like the annoyance factor is beyond and now they complain. Unfortunately, we tell them to like just deal with it when they have to go in My husband's like now he's kind of taken the Prius and I drive the bigger car, which is a Highlander, which they definitely fit comfortably in the fighting and the chaos is less when they are not literally on top of each other.

Yes, I'd like everyone to know that that is theoretically possible. The Diona Irradian car seats are narrow and you can fit three actual car seats in the back of the Preus, but at some point you will not want to because even if they physically fit, they're just too close to each other. And as they grow, it's like the annoyance factor is beyond and now they complain. Unfortunately, we tell them to like just deal with it when they have to go in My husband's like now he's kind of taken the Prius and I drive the bigger car, which is a Highlander, which they definitely fit comfortably in the fighting and the chaos is less when they are not literally on top of each other.

So just because you can doesn't mean you will want to in the future.

So just because you can doesn't mean you will want to in the future.

Yeah, you know, a lot of people.

Yeah, you know, a lot of people.

Again, this is just a question of when do you decide to get the suburban family house. You know, if you have done that once you had two kids, then it's not usually a big deal to put a third in it. On the other hand, if you wanted this sort of urban lifestyle, two kids, particularly two kids of the same gender, could stay in a shared bedroom forever, meaning you could live in a two bedroom condo somewhere, which is just a living format that there is a lot more option if you, you know, want to be in an apartment or a condo somewhere in a city, you could certainly find that in a way that it is much more challenging to find, say a three bedroom or a four bedroom. So then you definitely do wind up out in a place where there is more space, such as the verbs, which is where we both have wound up living. Travel So it turns out that a lot of hotel rooms will only take four people, you know, and maybe you can get around that with like a baby in a crib for a while, but once they're needing a bed. The hotels will at most have the two queen beds, and so then if there are more of four of you, you've got to find certain places. So you know, we wind up going to embassy suites, right, do a lot of verbo and home away rentals when you go to places even yeah, cruises like yeah, and yeah, especially wind up doing this that you have to say a complaint like this would be such a gross complaint.

Again, this is just a question of when do you decide to get the suburban family house. You know, if you have done that once you had two kids, then it's not usually a big deal to put a third in it. On the other hand, if you wanted this sort of urban lifestyle, two kids, particularly two kids of the same gender, could stay in a shared bedroom forever, meaning you could live in a two bedroom condo somewhere, which is just a living format that there is a lot more option if you, you know, want to be in an apartment or a condo somewhere in a city, you could certainly find that in a way that it is much more challenging to find, say a three bedroom or a four bedroom. So then you definitely do wind up out in a place where there is more space, such as the verbs, which is where we both have wound up living. Travel So it turns out that a lot of hotel rooms will only take four people, you know, and maybe you can get around that with like a baby in a crib for a while, but once they're needing a bed. The hotels will at most have the two queen beds, and so then if there are more of four of you, you've got to find certain places. So you know, we wind up going to embassy suites, right, do a lot of verbo and home away rentals when you go to places even yeah, cruises like yeah, and yeah, especially wind up doing this that you have to say a complaint like this would be such a gross complaint.

But like just FYI, cruising as a family of five is like weirdly more expensive than a family of four. I mean, we've only done the Disney cruise line. But you either have to get like two rooms or you get a suite, and either way it's not it's not twenty five percent more as it shall be. It's close to double. So yeah, not a marginal cost in that situation, although I guess it would be going from three to four marginal cost, but not four to five people in your family.

But like just FYI, cruising as a family of five is like weirdly more expensive than a family of four. I mean, we've only done the Disney cruise line. But you either have to get like two rooms or you get a suite, and either way it's not it's not twenty five percent more as it shall be. It's close to double. So yeah, not a marginal cost in that situation, although I guess it would be going from three to four marginal cost, but not four to five people in your family.

Yeah, and then there's childcare, which on some of us like, well, if you you know, hire a nanny for two kids versus three kids, it's not you know, going to be that different of a thing. But the question is how many years you need that? And you know, in our case where we wind up, you know, we have our last child as five years younger than the kid before it wound up, adding many years to the situation of needing full time childcare. Us what we'd have if our youngest child was currently eight. I don't think we would need an extensive amount of help at this point. We'd need some driving help after school, but we wouldn't need full time care during the day because you know, Alex, even if he was homesick, could probably watch himself as long as another adult was here, like you could watch videos or whatever. It's like, we didn't need somebody with him. But you know, you need more years of care for sure, And so that's something to consider, particularly if they are stretched out a long way.

Yeah, and then there's childcare, which on some of us like, well, if you you know, hire a nanny for two kids versus three kids, it's not you know, going to be that different of a thing. But the question is how many years you need that? And you know, in our case where we wind up, you know, we have our last child as five years younger than the kid before it wound up, adding many years to the situation of needing full time childcare. Us what we'd have if our youngest child was currently eight. I don't think we would need an extensive amount of help at this point. We'd need some driving help after school, but we wouldn't need full time care during the day because you know, Alex, even if he was homesick, could probably watch himself as long as another adult was here, like you could watch videos or whatever. It's like, we didn't need somebody with him. But you know, you need more years of care for sure, And so that's something to consider, particularly if they are stretched out a long way.

Yeah, that's a really good point. The stretching out can actually add to the cost, probably in more ways than one. If you think about a more years of needing a babysitter. We're going to get to logistics, but it makes logistics a little bit more difficult as well, compared to maybe having three kids within a four year span, which is not that uncommon to have like a zero, two and four year old or something like that.

Yeah, that's a really good point. The stretching out can actually add to the cost, probably in more ways than one. If you think about a more years of needing a babysitter. We're going to get to logistics, but it makes logistics a little bit more difficult as well, compared to maybe having three kids within a four year span, which is not that uncommon to have like a zero, two and four year old or something like that.

Yeah, and obviously if you plan to pay for college, that will add you know, that's not a marginal cost. I think that's a full another cost.

Yeah, and obviously if you plan to pay for college, that will add you know, that's not a marginal cost. I think that's a full another cost.

That there's no two for one discount, no two for one discount usually. I don't know. Maybe you could find someplace that would do that. I'm not sure.

That there's no two for one discount, no two for one discount usually. I don't know. Maybe you could find someplace that would do that. I'm not sure.

I don't know it could happen, but yes, generally the third will add a full third cost. So logistics the more challenges that, you know, you want to think about one thing we've found. You know, if you have two kids, you can do a carpool with like neighbors. Right with three, it's you just can't, like, you can't add three people to anything. Like even if you're a house guest somewhere, coming in with three children and the two of you is like a lot of people to descend on anyone's house. And some people have houses that can you know, take it and you can put kids up in you know, mattresses in a basement or in a playroom or whatever if people have that. But it's just a lot of you to go anywhere or to ask anyone else to incorporate into their routine. So that does make it a little bit more challenging.

I don't know it could happen, but yes, generally the third will add a full third cost. So logistics the more challenges that, you know, you want to think about one thing we've found. You know, if you have two kids, you can do a carpool with like neighbors. Right with three, it's you just can't, like, you can't add three people to anything. Like even if you're a house guest somewhere, coming in with three children and the two of you is like a lot of people to descend on anyone's house. And some people have houses that can you know, take it and you can put kids up in you know, mattresses in a basement or in a playroom or whatever if people have that. But it's just a lot of you to go anywhere or to ask anyone else to incorporate into their routine. So that does make it a little bit more challenging.

Yeah, if you have older family members that watch the kids, there may be a certain number of kids where it just gets past what they're able to comfortably handle. One kid probably fine. Four kids if you're in your mid seventies, that's that's a lot.

Yeah, if you have older family members that watch the kids, there may be a certain number of kids where it just gets past what they're able to comfortably handle. One kid probably fine. Four kids if you're in your mid seventies, that's that's a lot.

That's a lot.

That's a lot.

Yeah, you're going to have fewer relatives offering to babysit when you have a bigger.

Yeah, you're going to have fewer relatives offering to babysit when you have a bigger.

Family versus if you have one.

Family versus if you have one.

There's also just the logistics like of you know, we have this under the category of logistics that we're thinking of the different categories, but just logistics in general. Like I can tell you that every week I am like coordinating where five children are going at any given point and who is driving them where, like what activities they have, if somebody has days off. I mean, if you have three or more kids who are spread out over a certain number of years, they're going to be in different schools for a certain number of that time.

There's also just the logistics like of you know, we have this under the category of logistics that we're thinking of the different categories, but just logistics in general. Like I can tell you that every week I am like coordinating where five children are going at any given point and who is driving them where, like what activities they have, if somebody has days off. I mean, if you have three or more kids who are spread out over a certain number of years, they're going to be in different schools for a certain number of that time.

Nless you're in one of those places that's a K twelve school, in which case that's totally different. You don't have this issue.

Nless you're in one of those places that's a K twelve school, in which case that's totally different. You don't have this issue.

But the odds that at least at some point you're going to have kids in at least two different schools are very high once you have three or more kids, so.

But the odds that at least at some point you're going to have kids in at least two different schools are very high once you have three or more kids, so.

They're different schedules.

They're different schedules.

Obviously, three kids, it's very difficult for all three to be into the exact same thing. I'm not saying that two would be either, but it might be at least slightly easier to take one kid along to somebody else's thing versus two, or coordinating where everybody is at they turn. So you know, I wind up sending these weekly emails with where everybody needs to be, all the rides, when things move around, when lessons have to be shifted. You know, it's just there's so many moving parts. And if this is going to drive you crazy, that's something to consider. Then maybe you you know, can have three kids, but don't put.

Obviously, three kids, it's very difficult for all three to be into the exact same thing. I'm not saying that two would be either, but it might be at least slightly easier to take one kid along to somebody else's thing versus two, or coordinating where everybody is at they turn. So you know, I wind up sending these weekly emails with where everybody needs to be, all the rides, when things move around, when lessons have to be shifted. You know, it's just there's so many moving parts. And if this is going to drive you crazy, that's something to consider. Then maybe you you know, can have three kids, but don't put.

Them in anything.

Them in anything.

I guess that's you have to have more of a minimalist family lifestyle.

I guess that's you have to have more of a minimalist family lifestyle.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, And that's a cost and a logistics issue. If each kid is doing two paid activities and you have four kids, that's a lot of monthly to like, you know, I don't know, credit card charges that are just kind of going through. It can really really add up. And I have seen that, like our activities budget seems to only be growing because the kids are getting older. So I probably haven't even like gotten to the tip of the iceberg. I'll mention summer camp. So in this area, in South Florida, it's really common to send kids to Sleepway Camp. You guys we talked about I sent Annabel and Cameron went last year, and they're.

Yeah, And that's a cost and a logistics issue. If each kid is doing two paid activities and you have four kids, that's a lot of monthly to like, you know, I don't know, credit card charges that are just kind of going through. It can really really add up. And I have seen that, like our activities budget seems to only be growing because the kids are getting older. So I probably haven't even like gotten to the tip of the iceberg. I'll mention summer camp. So in this area, in South Florida, it's really common to send kids to Sleepway Camp. You guys we talked about I sent Annabel and Cameron went last year, and they're.

Doing something a little bit different this year.

Doing something a little bit different this year.

But I have a lot of friends who like really enjoy like a two or three week period perhaps where their kids are entirely gone and out of the house and they can go on a big trip with just adults and you know, not worry about childcare. If your kids have a decent sized age span, that will probably never happen. Like, I don't see that in my future because by the time Genevieve might be old enough to consider Sleepwaycamp, I doubt that both the older kids are going to want to go. And that's totally fine, Like, I actually don't mind that, and I'm happy with how our summer is turning out and the way that it's going to be. But if that was like part of your dream or what you imagined, having more kids, especially the part that they are spaced out, is going to make that less of a realistic proposition.

But I have a lot of friends who like really enjoy like a two or three week period perhaps where their kids are entirely gone and out of the house and they can go on a big trip with just adults and you know, not worry about childcare. If your kids have a decent sized age span, that will probably never happen. Like, I don't see that in my future because by the time Genevieve might be old enough to consider Sleepwaycamp, I doubt that both the older kids are going to want to go. And that's totally fine, Like, I actually don't mind that, and I'm happy with how our summer is turning out and the way that it's going to be. But if that was like part of your dream or what you imagined, having more kids, especially the part that they are spaced out, is going to make that less of a realistic proposition.

Yeah, it's also harder to find activities where everyone's going to be happy. There are very few things that all five of my children enjoy. You know, There's been a few that everyone seems to enjoy, but even just like you know, going to an amusement park, like, let alone corralling seven people through an amusement park, or the cost of bringing seven people to an amusement park, like, they can't go on the same rides, And so that's always a question of who's going where and who wants to do what, and you know, there's just a lot of sort of give and take with that.

Yeah, it's also harder to find activities where everyone's going to be happy. There are very few things that all five of my children enjoy. You know, There's been a few that everyone seems to enjoy, but even just like you know, going to an amusement park, like, let alone corralling seven people through an amusement park, or the cost of bringing seven people to an amusement park, like, they can't go on the same rides, And so that's always a question of who's going where and who wants to do what, and you know, there's just a lot of sort of give and take with that.

I'm always on the lookout for.

I'm always on the lookout for.

Things that are allegedly fun for the whole family, but there are not a whole lot of things that are fun for the whole family.

Things that are allegedly fun for the whole family, but there are not a whole lot of things that are fun for the whole family.

So you know, you just kind of have to make your peace with that.

So you know, you just kind of have to make your peace with that.

When your kids are little, you think, oh, we're going to like go to the playground forever, but like tweens aren't going to be that excited about going to theody.

When your kids are little, you think, oh, we're going to like go to the playground forever, but like tweens aren't going to be that excited about going to theody.

Sitting in the car on their.

Sitting in the car on their.

Phone, Okay, but it just means it's one family outing that doesn't work as well.

Phone, Okay, but it just means it's one family outing that doesn't work as well.

Yeah, and it's more challenging to get one on one time. I think I've been doing a fairly good job of it. But and I even do it every day. But you can consider that my bedtime routine, you know, when I'm putting kids to bed at you know, I'm turning out the lights of ten o'clock. I'm going to four different rooms at that point and talking with four different people, you know, about their days and all that stuff. And as an introverted person, that's occasionally a little bit challenging because at that point, I'm like, I don't want to talk to anyone. But I'm like, well, this is when my kids want to talk to me. So I'm going to dig deep and be be good about it and be grateful that they are willing to chat with me.

Yeah, and it's more challenging to get one on one time. I think I've been doing a fairly good job of it. But and I even do it every day. But you can consider that my bedtime routine, you know, when I'm putting kids to bed at you know, I'm turning out the lights of ten o'clock. I'm going to four different rooms at that point and talking with four different people, you know, about their days and all that stuff. And as an introverted person, that's occasionally a little bit challenging because at that point, I'm like, I don't want to talk to anyone. But I'm like, well, this is when my kids want to talk to me. So I'm going to dig deep and be be good about it and be grateful that they are willing to chat with me.

But it's a lot, it's a lot of people, totally. Just keep saying that.

But it's a lot, it's a lot of people, totally. Just keep saying that.

It's a lot of people, you know, not even when they're just the babies, but they're there for years and years and years. But I tend to think that's a good thing, which is what we will get to after the break, all right, we are back talking about things to consider if you're going to have a third child, or if you're going to you know, if you have a third KAD and you're thinking of having a fourth.

It's a lot of people, you know, not even when they're just the babies, but they're there for years and years and years. But I tend to think that's a good thing, which is what we will get to after the break, all right, we are back talking about things to consider if you're going to have a third child, or if you're going to you know, if you have a third KAD and you're thinking of having a fourth.

Or fifth, or heck a six. We've got listeners with.

Or fifth, or heck a six. We've got listeners with.

All of those I know for sure. Maybe even more part of this. I sign up for this Facebook group called Large Family Tricks of the Trade, and it's really fascinating. I think if anyone is in a big Family category, so you'd qualify for that list.

All of those I know for sure. Maybe even more part of this. I sign up for this Facebook group called Large Family Tricks of the Trade, and it's really fascinating. I think if anyone is in a big Family category, so you'd qualify for that list.

It's interesting to.

It's interesting to.

See the different challenges and things people come up with. So I'll put that one out there.

See the different challenges and things people come up with. So I'll put that one out there.

But so things that might be more neutral.

But so things that might be more neutral.

We've been talking in the beginning about some of the challenges and things to consider, the sheer logistics and cost of having a lot of kids. Things that might be more neutral. So career considerations. I'm going to throw out that this might be more neutral. Now to be sure, if you have three children versus two, and you are the one giving birth to them. But even if you're adopting or whatever, you're going to have some sort of leave out as you're adjusting with a child being part of your home, So there's more leaves, so time out of the workforce. Three children get sick more than two children get sick, although they tend get sick roughly the same time. I mean, so it's just that it extends a little bit for each bout of illness. So there's more years with interrupted sleep and all that, and all those things can be challenging, and so there is some data that women with three or more kids are less likely to be in the workforce, But I think that is a lot of preference driving that versus actual causal effect. Like I think many people who want larger families were more oriented toward that as their life goal, I guess maybe, and so they weren't necessarily deeply into the workforce anyway, right, Like that, they were looking more to exit for a while and be the mother of this large brood. Whereas if you have gotten to two and your career is going great with two, I don't think the third is necessarily going to be a thing that would make a high powered, love working mom decide to leave.

We've been talking in the beginning about some of the challenges and things to consider, the sheer logistics and cost of having a lot of kids. Things that might be more neutral. So career considerations. I'm going to throw out that this might be more neutral. Now to be sure, if you have three children versus two, and you are the one giving birth to them. But even if you're adopting or whatever, you're going to have some sort of leave out as you're adjusting with a child being part of your home, So there's more leaves, so time out of the workforce. Three children get sick more than two children get sick, although they tend get sick roughly the same time. I mean, so it's just that it extends a little bit for each bout of illness. So there's more years with interrupted sleep and all that, and all those things can be challenging, and so there is some data that women with three or more kids are less likely to be in the workforce, But I think that is a lot of preference driving that versus actual causal effect. Like I think many people who want larger families were more oriented toward that as their life goal, I guess maybe, and so they weren't necessarily deeply into the workforce anyway, right, Like that, they were looking more to exit for a while and be the mother of this large brood. Whereas if you have gotten to two and your career is going great with two, I don't think the third is necessarily going to be a thing that would make a high powered, love working mom decide to leave.

Right Sarah, Yes, I mean, and there's so many examples of this, not just be but I think of so many of our listeners and Patreon members, former guests. Rebecca Fike of lag Live. I mean, she's got three kids and now she's working a really really big law type of a job, and she's really thriving doing that. So there's absolutely nothing out there that says that you cannot have three plus children and a very significant career path. I also wonder, if you know, if you have a career that you really like, and particularly one that provides decent compensation, having more than two kids might actually kind of prevent you from cheaping out on childcare, Like you know, especially if you have a younger kid for longer, you're more likely to go the nanny route, which might actually lead to more worktime flexibility than perhaps if you had two kids who are a little bit older, and you're kind of like, Okay, I think they're fine in the aftercare, but then I have to get there by six pm.

Right Sarah, Yes, I mean, and there's so many examples of this, not just be but I think of so many of our listeners and Patreon members, former guests. Rebecca Fike of lag Live. I mean, she's got three kids and now she's working a really really big law type of a job, and she's really thriving doing that. So there's absolutely nothing out there that says that you cannot have three plus children and a very significant career path. I also wonder, if you know, if you have a career that you really like, and particularly one that provides decent compensation, having more than two kids might actually kind of prevent you from cheaping out on childcare, Like you know, especially if you have a younger kid for longer, you're more likely to go the nanny route, which might actually lead to more worktime flexibility than perhaps if you had two kids who are a little bit older, and you're kind of like, Okay, I think they're fine in the aftercare, but then I have to get there by six pm.

Because I have definitely.

Because I have definitely.

Enjoyed having increased flexibility by keeping the more full time childcare as the kids are older, because it means that in the evenings, if I need to go to a work event that's late or a fun event that's late, then I'm able to do that. So yeah, it's kind of like a backwards way of thinking about it. And personally, I mean, I've taken three maternity leaves. None of them are that long because they're just not that long. In the industry where I work. I mean, they're like ten to twelve weeks each and it's just such a blip on the radar when you consider how many weeks I have not taken maternity leave for and so I just feel like it goes fast and the work is still there when you're finished. Generally, I've never felt like I missed anything those years right after the years like right after babies are tough. They're absolutely tough, but at the same time, like they're still not comprising the chunk of my working years.

Enjoyed having increased flexibility by keeping the more full time childcare as the kids are older, because it means that in the evenings, if I need to go to a work event that's late or a fun event that's late, then I'm able to do that. So yeah, it's kind of like a backwards way of thinking about it. And personally, I mean, I've taken three maternity leaves. None of them are that long because they're just not that long. In the industry where I work. I mean, they're like ten to twelve weeks each and it's just such a blip on the radar when you consider how many weeks I have not taken maternity leave for and so I just feel like it goes fast and the work is still there when you're finished. Generally, I've never felt like I missed anything those years right after the years like right after babies are tough. They're absolutely tough, but at the same time, like they're still not comprising the chunk of my working years.

Yeah, so it's a small blip in the grand scheme of things. And even the baby years are pretty short. I mean they're they're rough. But you know, if you had three children and they were more than two years apart, and you know, then you'd have six years where you had a kid under the age of two, right, I mean, this is just math. And if they were less than two years apart, then you have less than six years with kids under the age of two.

Yeah, so it's a small blip in the grand scheme of things. And even the baby years are pretty short. I mean they're they're rough. But you know, if you had three children and they were more than two years apart, and you know, then you'd have six years where you had a kid under the age of two, right, I mean, this is just math. And if they were less than two years apart, then you have less than six years with kids under the age of two.

So it it.

So it it.

Just doesn't you know, versus the entirety of your life, like the eighty years your career you might be and even your career life like let's say you finish all of your training and graduate school whatever by thirty and you work until least sixty that's thirty years.

Just doesn't you know, versus the entirety of your life, like the eighty years your career you might be and even your career life like let's say you finish all of your training and graduate school whatever by thirty and you work until least sixty that's thirty years.

Okay, six of them were really rough and you took thirty six total weeks of leave. I mean well, in other countries you would take more, but in the US it's like it's like nothing compared to the overall arc of things.

Okay, six of them were really rough and you took thirty six total weeks of leave. I mean well, in other countries you would take more, but in the US it's like it's like nothing compared to the overall arc of things.

Yeah, So if you are pondering that, like, well, a third maternity leave tank your career, we would say no. And if you think it will let your company, you should go find a different company to work for that would value you much more. There are some awesome things about having lots of kids. I mean, I know, like having a big brood has just been fun, like all because they're all cool people, like I mean, I enjoy getting to know them. And so it's like, you know, you're thinking about having a third like this third kid will be an awesome person in your life, like for the rest of your life, and I mean most likely, I mean, I guess you know, things could go horribly right, but it just most likely this will be a person that is as awesome as your other two kids that you will then get to experience and that you know will be in the world and doing whatever cool things they are doing in the world. There's just I mean, even when they're little, there are cool things like the fact that I'm seeing my older children help with my younger ones and even just playing together. It's been really cool to see sort of Alex take on a leadership role with Henry, you know, teaching him stuff or trying to get him to do stuff. And of course, you know, Henry idolizes Alex, which is good to have that because when you're the littlest of the sort of big four, the older three may not be treating you with that kind of deference that the three year old is then giving you. So there's just allows for so many different dynamics and interpersonal relationships, and people can take on different roles kind of in a bigger family in a way that you might not have as much if there are only two children. So yeah, that's something I've enjoyed seeing.

Yeah, So if you are pondering that, like, well, a third maternity leave tank your career, we would say no. And if you think it will let your company, you should go find a different company to work for that would value you much more. There are some awesome things about having lots of kids. I mean, I know, like having a big brood has just been fun, like all because they're all cool people, like I mean, I enjoy getting to know them. And so it's like, you know, you're thinking about having a third like this third kid will be an awesome person in your life, like for the rest of your life, and I mean most likely, I mean, I guess you know, things could go horribly right, but it just most likely this will be a person that is as awesome as your other two kids that you will then get to experience and that you know will be in the world and doing whatever cool things they are doing in the world. There's just I mean, even when they're little, there are cool things like the fact that I'm seeing my older children help with my younger ones and even just playing together. It's been really cool to see sort of Alex take on a leadership role with Henry, you know, teaching him stuff or trying to get him to do stuff. And of course, you know, Henry idolizes Alex, which is good to have that because when you're the littlest of the sort of big four, the older three may not be treating you with that kind of deference that the three year old is then giving you. So there's just allows for so many different dynamics and interpersonal relationships, and people can take on different roles kind of in a bigger family in a way that you might not have as much if there are only two children. So yeah, that's something I've enjoyed seeing.

Yeah, and there is that like helpful factor. And I don't necessarily even mean like, you know, putting your older ones to work babysitting, but like I was just thinking, like I was dropping off Cameron today and I'm like kind of left Genevieve and Annabelle like waiting for me, and I wouldn't have felt comfortable just leaving Genevieve, but because it was for like one minute, because it was both of them, I'm like, Okay, they're fine. Like there's something about having two or like taking both of them to treader Joe's a lot of times is easier than taking just Genevieve, because like, I just have that extra set of hands, the extra pair of eyes, and so even when you're not again putting them quote unquote in charge, sometimes just a kind of mid sized person helping you with your kindergartener can be can be really really helpful and really heartwarming to see. Yesterday I was forget what I was doing. I had just gotten home from work and kind of will actually help Genevieve like practice piano.

Yeah, and there is that like helpful factor. And I don't necessarily even mean like, you know, putting your older ones to work babysitting, but like I was just thinking, like I was dropping off Cameron today and I'm like kind of left Genevieve and Annabelle like waiting for me, and I wouldn't have felt comfortable just leaving Genevieve, but because it was for like one minute, because it was both of them, I'm like, Okay, they're fine. Like there's something about having two or like taking both of them to treader Joe's a lot of times is easier than taking just Genevieve, because like, I just have that extra set of hands, the extra pair of eyes, and so even when you're not again putting them quote unquote in charge, sometimes just a kind of mid sized person helping you with your kindergartener can be can be really really helpful and really heartwarming to see. Yesterday I was forget what I was doing. I had just gotten home from work and kind of will actually help Genevieve like practice piano.

It was the cutest thing.

It was the cutest thing.

Yeah, so no, that is really cute.

Yeah, so no, that is really cute.

You tend to have as you have a larger family, put various processes in place that make any individual thing, for any individual kid slightly less of a big deal.

You tend to have as you have a larger family, put various processes in place that make any individual thing, for any individual kid slightly less of a big deal.

And the first one it.

And the first one it.

Still is like so we are now currently figuring out the driving thing, right, Like that's not you know, we have to figure out how do you get your permit and how do.

Still is like so we are now currently figuring out the driving thing, right, Like that's not you know, we have to figure out how do you get your permit and how do.

You teach a kid how to drive?

You teach a kid how to drive?

But we've been through toilet training four times already, and you know, so the fifth kid, it's he's taking his time, but I'm pretty sure it will happen, you know, or transitioning from a crib to a big kid bad or registering them for public school kindergarten. I've now done it four times, and I'll have to do it a fifth time in another year or so. But it's it's like I've done it, like all of these things, and I like it too.

But we've been through toilet training four times already, and you know, so the fifth kid, it's he's taking his time, but I'm pretty sure it will happen, you know, or transitioning from a crib to a big kid bad or registering them for public school kindergarten. I've now done it four times, and I'll have to do it a fifth time in another year or so. But it's it's like I've done it, like all of these things, and I like it too.

A lot of stuff with kids, Like when you're doing it.

A lot of stuff with kids, Like when you're doing it.

With one kid, it's almost like buying property or something like if you've never bought a house before, it seems like this whole huge deal like when you're doing it, But people who are then like real estate investors, do it again and again and again, and they're sort of used to it, right, so it's just not that big a deal each individual time for them, and I get it. That's sometimes what I feel like with some of our processes, Like you know, if a kid wants to do this activity, I'm like, well, I already know that there are two places in town that can do it, so I could go sign them up for one of them, or you know, various different things, or here's where I'm going to keep all the medical forms so I can sign this kid up for camp, and I know that this camp requires this, so I've already got it ready to go. And you know, you just develop certain efficiencies. The more kids you do, you become more of an expert on all of it.

With one kid, it's almost like buying property or something like if you've never bought a house before, it seems like this whole huge deal like when you're doing it, But people who are then like real estate investors, do it again and again and again, and they're sort of used to it, right, so it's just not that big a deal each individual time for them, and I get it. That's sometimes what I feel like with some of our processes, Like you know, if a kid wants to do this activity, I'm like, well, I already know that there are two places in town that can do it, so I could go sign them up for one of them, or you know, various different things, or here's where I'm going to keep all the medical forms so I can sign this kid up for camp, and I know that this camp requires this, so I've already got it ready to go. And you know, you just develop certain efficiencies. The more kids you do, you become more of an expert on all of it.

And you also probably judge yourself less that things go differently because you have more of that perspective that we mentioned many times, like, well, that kid didn't read the manual. Like if you have one child and toilet training goes very poorly or it takes a really long time, you might beat yourself up. But if you have five kids and one kid went really fast and one kid went really so, then you're like you have that perspective. You're like, oh, it's nothing that I did, it's just the kid. They're different and I know the process and I'm okay, and the whole thing yet just becomes less of a thing, just.

And you also probably judge yourself less that things go differently because you have more of that perspective that we mentioned many times, like, well, that kid didn't read the manual. Like if you have one child and toilet training goes very poorly or it takes a really long time, you might beat yourself up. But if you have five kids and one kid went really fast and one kid went really so, then you're like you have that perspective. You're like, oh, it's nothing that I did, it's just the kid. They're different and I know the process and I'm okay, and the whole thing yet just becomes less of a thing, just.

Less of a big deal, less of a big deal.

Less of a big deal, less of a big deal.

We love that big family, crowded table feeling. The Brandon Carlisle song.

We love that big family, crowded table feeling. The Brandon Carlisle song.

I love that song.

I love that song.

Well, just you know, considering with things, like you know, it's not just how hard are the baby years, it's how many people do you want to have around your table when they're older? Like when you know, how many kids would you like to be you have a table, you know, a kitchen full of teenagers coming back from something and talking with you about things.

Well, just you know, considering with things, like you know, it's not just how hard are the baby years, it's how many people do you want to have around your table when they're older? Like when you know, how many kids would you like to be you have a table, you know, a kitchen full of teenagers coming back from something and talking with you about things.

I don't know.

I don't know.

It's just a very different feeling than when they were little. But it's nice to have more of them, I guess in my sense, I love having that big, full house feeling. I guess at some point it has to staff Like Sarah, you decided not to do number four.

It's just a very different feeling than when they were little. But it's nice to have more of them, I guess in my sense, I love having that big, full house feeling. I guess at some point it has to staff Like Sarah, you decided not to do number four.

Yeah, and I've had no like I mean, I guess if you're thinking about whether to have a third and you're worried that you're just gonna always always have an impulse for more children, I guess I can tell you that like for me, that wasn't the case. But I feel like we have just enough chaos, and I really do enjoy I enjoy going to a restaurant and like having having like to get the bigger table, and like just having a little bit more going on. So I do enjoy that and yeah, yeah, no, no deserve for further expansion.

Yeah, and I've had no like I mean, I guess if you're thinking about whether to have a third and you're worried that you're just gonna always always have an impulse for more children, I guess I can tell you that like for me, that wasn't the case. But I feel like we have just enough chaos, and I really do enjoy I enjoy going to a restaurant and like having having like to get the bigger table, and like just having a little bit more going on. So I do enjoy that and yeah, yeah, no, no deserve for further expansion.

Yeah yeah, well we're not having a sixth in case anyone was wondering at some point you do, in fact stop and five feels big enough for us. But even sorry, I mean, I'm looking forward to what that'll mean in future generations too. I was, I don't know if anyone's seen this, because it got shared around a fair amount, so regardless what if you think of as postics. But Senator Mitt Romney is, you know, has five children, and his sons have all had many children themselves, and they sent around a Christmas card last year, like with the whole clan, and it's really quite a shot. And I was like, oh, well, you know, maybe that could be my family. I don't think my children will have quite as many children as the Romney sons have turned.

Yeah yeah, well we're not having a sixth in case anyone was wondering at some point you do, in fact stop and five feels big enough for us. But even sorry, I mean, I'm looking forward to what that'll mean in future generations too. I was, I don't know if anyone's seen this, because it got shared around a fair amount, so regardless what if you think of as postics. But Senator Mitt Romney is, you know, has five children, and his sons have all had many children themselves, and they sent around a Christmas card last year, like with the whole clan, and it's really quite a shot. And I was like, oh, well, you know, maybe that could be my family. I don't think my children will have quite as many children as the Romney sons have turned.

Out to have, but they could.

Out to have, but they could.

And but even if they even have you know, two or three apiece, that's still you know, ten to fifteen grandkids or whatever that you know, we'd all be around and have that large family dynamic.

And but even if they even have you know, two or three apiece, that's still you know, ten to fifteen grandkids or whatever that you know, we'd all be around and have that large family dynamic.

Which I just think would be really cool.

Which I just think would be really cool.

Like I'd love to have huge gatherings of you know, your people in the future.

Like I'd love to have huge gatherings of you know, your people in the future.

So I don't know.

So I don't know.

If that appeals to you, then we would tell you that the tough part is early and then you start getting a lot of the payoff of having these cool people in your life. And of course that's what you when people are who probably want to have a third kid are asking Sarah and me this question, like, obviously, neither of us is going to be like, well, yeah, that was a huge mistake. Life would have been so much better if I hadn't had that third kid. Like, we love it, right, We love having these big families, and we have not in whatever the cultural narrative is out there, we have not in any way found that it has limited our other ambitions, you know, and part of that is choosing careers that you know. We'd also encourage women, you know that you want to go for bigger jobs as well, because then that gives you more resources to get the help you need. But if you do want a bigger family, it might be better to go for both of those, right then, maybe something that's you know, more challenging to combine work in life because you have less authority and seniority over your career and things like that.

If that appeals to you, then we would tell you that the tough part is early and then you start getting a lot of the payoff of having these cool people in your life. And of course that's what you when people are who probably want to have a third kid are asking Sarah and me this question, like, obviously, neither of us is going to be like, well, yeah, that was a huge mistake. Life would have been so much better if I hadn't had that third kid. Like, we love it, right, We love having these big families, and we have not in whatever the cultural narrative is out there, we have not in any way found that it has limited our other ambitions, you know, and part of that is choosing careers that you know. We'd also encourage women, you know that you want to go for bigger jobs as well, because then that gives you more resources to get the help you need. But if you do want a bigger family, it might be better to go for both of those, right then, maybe something that's you know, more challenging to combine work in life because you have less authority and seniority over your career and things like that.

Yeah, I was just thinking about the math problem of like if each of your kids had five kids, because that's what they were used to, So you'd have five grandchildren and I'd only have nine, and that's just such a huge difference. But I guess the truth is, like that's how it works, right, It's like three K five cubes, six cubes, seven cubes pours does work, Sarah, So I think that's what that's why the Mitt Romney photo looks the way it does.

Yeah, I was just thinking about the math problem of like if each of your kids had five kids, because that's what they were used to, So you'd have five grandchildren and I'd only have nine, and that's just such a huge difference. But I guess the truth is, like that's how it works, right, It's like three K five cubes, six cubes, seven cubes pours does work, Sarah, So I think that's what that's why the Mitt Romney photo looks the way it does.

Yeah, yeah, it does. It does.

Yeah, yeah, it does. It does.

Sorry, I was like lost in this like multiplication, multiplication of it.

Sorry, I was like lost in this like multiplication, multiplication of it.

But yes, if if five children have five children apiece, then that's twenty five. And if you know, at that point they're older, I mean because he's you know, seventies, so some of them their children are getting married, and.

But yes, if if five children have five children apiece, then that's twenty five. And if you know, at that point they're older, I mean because he's you know, seventies, so some of them their children are getting married, and.

Right like it's completely each having their five, so they like we wind up with one hundred and twenty five and the next generation. It just keeps going. It just keeps going. So should we sorry, we wrap this up, Yeah, we should wrap it up.

Right like it's completely each having their five, so they like we wind up with one hundred and twenty five and the next generation. It just keeps going. It just keeps going. So should we sorry, we wrap this up, Yeah, we should wrap it up.

I guess we're not going to actually like answer this question specifically because we think this is a question to think about maybe in private or with your partner. But one thing that might be an interesting thought experiment was to just ask yourself, like, how would you feel if you were accidentally pregnant right now? Like that could be an interesting litmus test. And Laura came up with us. By the way, she should get all the credit, but I'm reading it and I think it's like a nice way to just like put yourself in that position and think through all the possibilities.

I guess we're not going to actually like answer this question specifically because we think this is a question to think about maybe in private or with your partner. But one thing that might be an interesting thought experiment was to just ask yourself, like, how would you feel if you were accidentally pregnant right now? Like that could be an interesting litmus test. And Laura came up with us. By the way, she should get all the credit, but I'm reading it and I think it's like a nice way to just like put yourself in that position and think through all the possibilities.

Yeah, because if you are pondering having a third and so this is a potential for the future. So if you woke up tomorrow and I was like, whoa, I recognize those symptoms and it turned out that you were in fact expecting a third tomorrow, what would be your thoughts about that. Would you be like very very excited, like well, I didn't make an active decision, but like woohoo, like yes, this is what I totally wanted. Or would you be more feeling trepidation, like how am I going to be able to go through with this? And this is just you know, I'm not sure I can deal with this. This is, you know, not something I'm very excited about. If you're feeling that way, then that's something to definitely consider as you are looking forward to making this decis because Obviously, you don't have to have a third either, even if you come from a larger family. You know, even if you're one of five and all your siblings have five, you absolutely do not have to do that.

Yeah, because if you are pondering having a third and so this is a potential for the future. So if you woke up tomorrow and I was like, whoa, I recognize those symptoms and it turned out that you were in fact expecting a third tomorrow, what would be your thoughts about that. Would you be like very very excited, like well, I didn't make an active decision, but like woohoo, like yes, this is what I totally wanted. Or would you be more feeling trepidation, like how am I going to be able to go through with this? And this is just you know, I'm not sure I can deal with this. This is, you know, not something I'm very excited about. If you're feeling that way, then that's something to definitely consider as you are looking forward to making this decis because Obviously, you don't have to have a third either, even if you come from a larger family. You know, even if you're one of five and all your siblings have five, you absolutely do not have to do that.

You know.

You know.

It's perfectly wonderful to have two kids, to have one kid, to have no kids. Right, there are many ways to have a happy life. So considering how you might feel in that situation could be a good way to test this out on a gut level of whether you'd like to go for a third or not, or fourth or a fifth. I'm glad I am not expecting a sixth thorough so could throw that out there all right, So question the listener question this week. This listener says, I am headed away on summer vacation. Can you share your favorite family packing hacks.

It's perfectly wonderful to have two kids, to have one kid, to have no kids. Right, there are many ways to have a happy life. So considering how you might feel in that situation could be a good way to test this out on a gut level of whether you'd like to go for a third or not, or fourth or a fifth. I'm glad I am not expecting a sixth thorough so could throw that out there all right, So question the listener question this week. This listener says, I am headed away on summer vacation. Can you share your favorite family packing hacks.

Well, I will say that the biggest thing that has made the difference for us is having the kids have luggage that they can handle themselves, because it is such a game changer lugging your kids stuff around the airport versus them doing it. Jenevie's five, and she now has like a small backpack that we usually put all the kids I've hads in and she can carry it just fine and a small rolling bag, and watching her walk through the airport like with her stuff and everybody just having their own stuff.

Well, I will say that the biggest thing that has made the difference for us is having the kids have luggage that they can handle themselves, because it is such a game changer lugging your kids stuff around the airport versus them doing it. Jenevie's five, and she now has like a small backpack that we usually put all the kids I've hads in and she can carry it just fine and a small rolling bag, and watching her walk through the airport like with her stuff and everybody just having their own stuff.

Oh my gosh, it was like the best. I just loved it so much.

Oh my gosh, it was like the best. I just loved it so much.

So I would say working on trying to get your kids, you know. Obviously, if they're one and two, that's that's a different story. But if they're kind of preschool asian up, if you try, you can often find luggage kind of scaled to them that will help them help you, and that makes things a lot easier.

So I would say working on trying to get your kids, you know. Obviously, if they're one and two, that's that's a different story. But if they're kind of preschool asian up, if you try, you can often find luggage kind of scaled to them that will help them help you, and that makes things a lot easier.

Yeah, I'm currently packing at the moment when we're recording this episode, which we have a couple things like, I firmly believe that you should not check bags if it is all possible not to. We may need to because I think Michael's got to bring his diving stuff, so that's a different matter. But you can just get through airports quicker and you are less likely to lose your stuff, right because you can pack the best packing in the world, and the airline loses your luggage for forty eight hours, you don't have any of it, right, So do not overpack, like unless you are going to a total wilderness area, and if you are going to a total wilderness area, I guess is like you're backpacking or something anyway, in which case you don't want much stuff regardless. Right, So if you are going to a place with civilization, right, you will be able to buy more diapers, You will be able to buy an extra bottle if you decide you need an extra bottle, if you need an extra sweatshirt because it was colder than when you thought, you know you were going, Like I mean, I always bring sweatshirts, even if we're going somewhere like tropical and hot and everything like that, because I feel like, you know, you'll be in the air conditioning somewhere and it'll be cold. But if you need an extra sweatshirt, like my guess is, there's going to be a store that will sell them to you. Right, and then you get a soven air of your trip with you know the name of that place that you went on your sweatshirt. So not overpacking because you will be able to get almost all of this stuff. I think is just been very important for us because then we can just go through the airport with our things, get off the plane, and go where we're going.

Yeah, I'm currently packing at the moment when we're recording this episode, which we have a couple things like, I firmly believe that you should not check bags if it is all possible not to. We may need to because I think Michael's got to bring his diving stuff, so that's a different matter. But you can just get through airports quicker and you are less likely to lose your stuff, right because you can pack the best packing in the world, and the airline loses your luggage for forty eight hours, you don't have any of it, right, So do not overpack, like unless you are going to a total wilderness area, and if you are going to a total wilderness area, I guess is like you're backpacking or something anyway, in which case you don't want much stuff regardless. Right, So if you are going to a place with civilization, right, you will be able to buy more diapers, You will be able to buy an extra bottle if you decide you need an extra bottle, if you need an extra sweatshirt because it was colder than when you thought, you know you were going, Like I mean, I always bring sweatshirts, even if we're going somewhere like tropical and hot and everything like that, because I feel like, you know, you'll be in the air conditioning somewhere and it'll be cold. But if you need an extra sweatshirt, like my guess is, there's going to be a store that will sell them to you. Right, and then you get a soven air of your trip with you know the name of that place that you went on your sweatshirt. So not overpacking because you will be able to get almost all of this stuff. I think is just been very important for us because then we can just go through the airport with our things, get off the plane, and go where we're going.

We don't worry.

We don't worry.

About having so much stuff, Like we just have what we need for the day. So as part of that, you really got to think through the outfits who are actually going to wear. I think some people who overpack sort of assume they'll need everything so they can make their choices from their normal wardrobe.

About having so much stuff, Like we just have what we need for the day. So as part of that, you really got to think through the outfits who are actually going to wear. I think some people who overpack sort of assume they'll need everything so they can make their choices from their normal wardrobe.

Don't do that.

Don't do that.

Actually think through what you will wear on every day and pack those things right, Like, don't have it be like, well, well I feel like wearing on Thursday, Like this is what you're going to feel like wearing on Thursday, which is what you've decided to bring for Thursday. Though even then, like if you're renting a house, it'll have laundry, like it'll have you know, so you can do a load of laundry on vacation if you needed to. So yeah, I would just say less stuff is.

Actually think through what you will wear on every day and pack those things right, Like, don't have it be like, well, well I feel like wearing on Thursday, Like this is what you're going to feel like wearing on Thursday, which is what you've decided to bring for Thursday. Though even then, like if you're renting a house, it'll have laundry, like it'll have you know, so you can do a load of laundry on vacation if you needed to. So yeah, I would just say less stuff is.

Generally the way to go.

Generally the way to go.

And you know, but if you have young kids, make sure you have an ex stra a pair of clothes for everybody, like relatively accessible.

And you know, but if you have young kids, make sure you have an ex stra a pair of clothes for everybody, like relatively accessible.

Just put that out there.

Just put that out there.

I agree with everything, especially Yeah, we've become such a carry on family. Really avoid checking unless there's some very specific reason. It's just so much easier to just be able to just get up and go when you bland it and not have to like everyone's at their crankiest after a fight and it's not when I want to be standing next day around my stuff will actually make it all right.

I agree with everything, especially Yeah, we've become such a carry on family. Really avoid checking unless there's some very specific reason. It's just so much easier to just be able to just get up and go when you bland it and not have to like everyone's at their crankiest after a fight and it's not when I want to be standing next day around my stuff will actually make it all right.

So love of the Week, Sarah, Mine is going to be one on one trips with my kids. So you know, we've talked about it can be harder to spend individual time with your kids, but we've both kind of made it a priority to do so. And I actually took Sam on a trip to Acadia and Maine Bar Harbor, Maine for a couple of days in June, and it was a lot of fun. This was his Christmas present, and I guess combo mommy Day, which some of the older children may have said that I've really like up the game on it now. I think they're expecting stuff like this to im, like, well, you ask for it for Christmas, then like, ask for it for Christmas and then you know we can we can work something out. But yeah, it was a lot of fun.

So love of the Week, Sarah, Mine is going to be one on one trips with my kids. So you know, we've talked about it can be harder to spend individual time with your kids, but we've both kind of made it a priority to do so. And I actually took Sam on a trip to Acadia and Maine Bar Harbor, Maine for a couple of days in June, and it was a lot of fun. This was his Christmas present, and I guess combo mommy Day, which some of the older children may have said that I've really like up the game on it now. I think they're expecting stuff like this to im, like, well, you ask for it for Christmas, then like, ask for it for Christmas and then you know we can we can work something out. But yeah, it was a lot of fun.

We had a great.

We had a great.

Time, and it's good to get to spend someone on one time with one child and you talk to them more than you would otherwise.

Time, and it's good to get to spend someone on one time with one child and you talk to them more than you would otherwise.

So big fan of that.

So big fan of that.

How about you Sarah, I love that, and yeah, I like the Okay, if you want a trip for your one on one day, that better be like a Christmas present because that's not just like a freebee that you get automatically.

How about you Sarah, I love that, and yeah, I like the Okay, if you want a trip for your one on one day, that better be like a Christmas present because that's not just like a freebee that you get automatically.

Totally makes sense.

Totally makes sense.

I'm going to go with my inkwoll Press Disbound planner that I'm using these days that I had from twenty twenty and actually like bought new inserts for and haven't really played with Disbound for a long time. It's kind of fun to be able to take things out for your planner and move them around. So if you want to hear more about that, I think there would have already been about laid plans episode released.