Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hartunger. I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. On the side. We are two working parents who love our careers and our families. Welcome to Best of Both Worlds. Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, and time for fun. From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. We want you to get the most out of life. Welcome to Best of Both Worlds. This is Laura. This is episode two hundred and sixty eight, airing in mid to late September of twenty twenty two. Sarah is going to be interviewing Ashley Brown of Routine and Things. She has interviewed Ashley for her other podcast, Best Laid Plans, and Ashley was a great guest and agreed to come on Best of Both Worlds as well. Sarah, can you just tell us a little bit about Ashley to introduce her. Yes, Ashley used to work primarily as a nurse, and she has I think two young kids, and she has a passion for routines and routine building and has now basically made that her life's work. She has a book out and she actually is launching a planner to help you carve out your own routines. So I was super I've actually chatted with Ashley once before for Best Laid Plans, and I'm super excited to have her on Best of Booth Worlds, just because I feel like so many of our lives as working parents are shaped by what our routines look like. So I think this will be a really really fun conversation. Yeah, as we're recording this, it's late August, and so my kids have not started school yet. They obviously will by the time this is airing, and so I will no doubt be deep into routines. And hopefully future Laura has figured out a wonderful bedtime routine, wake up routine for the morning that involves getting five kids off to four different schools and it's beautiful and maybe we can make an episode about that. But current Laura, as I'm recording this, is just, you know, got a bit of a headache thinking about it, and so current Laura has been putting it off. So I want to hear about Sarah, because current Sarah does have a routine now since her kids are already back in school. So what are you guys doing these days? You know what? We actually have some really solid routines. I hope I can make them stick, and it's not just the glitter of the newness. We have a good family morning routine. We have a bedtime routine. But I wanted to talk for a moment about our current like after school slash evening routine because I realized I didn't really have one and that it wasn't really serving us. Not that everything needs to be a routine, but I just think when you have multiple kids, they do kind of benefit from knowing what is to come and like what goes and what order most of the time. And it was actually after listening to one of Lisa Woodruff's Organized three sixty five episodes that I was like, I need to work on our afternoon slash after school routine. And I told Anna about this, and she was so cute. She was like, you're right, we don't have routine, and she helped me put one together. She was like writing it done on paper with highlighters, and we kind of like reviewed it with all the kids and so right now, okay, so we took a step back completely from screen time, but then I decided that, you know what, if they've done all the basics that they need to get done, that's a nice thing for them to be able to look forward to and perhaps a little bit motivating on school nights. And they have enough activities that they're not going to be spending nine hours doing it. So we came up with if they have their homework complete, have read for twenty minutes, which is partly something school asked for, but I approve, do a basic tidy up of their room and do their bath slash shower. They can do screens if they're done with their activities and everything, and I am actually trying to do more of a family dinner now it's really mommy dinner because Josh is not really ever home by this time frame, but they're eating with me around five point thirty, and then they will kind of like bring their dishes to the table, finish up anything on their list. Once they're done, they can have screen time until seven thirty, which is kind of when we start our bedtime routine. Sounds really regimented, it's actually working pretty well. I've had some I guess rebellions from various children, which have led to not getting screen time, which seemed pretty powerfully motivating. So we'll see how things go in the future. But I'm kind of excited because I never really put together this part of the day and thought of it as a routine. Yeah, and so with your work schedule, you're able to be home then five thirty that you see your last patient. Enough, my last patient is usually like if I am keeping up with my notes all day, which I tend to do, and even if I leave a couple of notes for the next day, I can pretty much leave by five most days now. If it's a call week, everything goes out the window. Call weeks are different, and they should be different. That's okay. The kids can't expect me to be home at a specific time, but on my regular clinic days, yeah, I can make it home. This is a chain from where we you know, when we lived farther away. But I can make it home in twenty twenty five minutes now, so yeah, I'm able to join them. Excellent. Well, that sounds nice. And to have an actual evening then, And you said there's a hard stop time of seven thirty, because that's when the bedtime routine starts, it's that what's going on? Then? Yes, that's when the bedtime. And I'm not saying they go to bed at seven thirty, but everyone's kind of in bed by eight thirty. And seven thirty is when we start with the teeth brushing and they're reading books and blah blah blah blah blaha. Have enough time to wind down then so that when the lights start. Okay, well that sounds really cool. Great routine. We'll hope that mine will be a good day too. I don't know, and I hope yours is good too. Yours is going to be so much more complicated because you're not going to be able to set these kinds of bedtimes with your teenager. But maybe you could have like a little kid routine and a big kid routine. I don't know, I will see, yeah. I mean it's going to be early mornings, so I'm really hoping that everyone can be in their rooms. I want my goal is to have the big kids be in their rooms, and I would like them to be working on sleep at nine thirty. I don't know how realistic that is. I mean, I turned off lights between nine thirty and ten last year, and I was often creeping up after ten and I mean the problem is, though, if you have to wake up at six thirty for you know, that's nine hours. That's what you need. I mean even eight hours. Like if they're falling asleep at ten, ten to six thirty, you know, it's it just doesn't work. We need our high school to move, which we're having a sleep episode coming up. But in the meantime we'll work with what we can. It's, you know, funny that the kids who need to sleep in don't get to and the kids who wake up earlier are the ones who have school start times of nine o'clock. So a little bit of not fair backwards things making problems for routine. But I'm sure Ashley has all sorts of great advice for routines. So we're looking forward to that interview. All right. I am so excited to welcome Ashley Brown to the podcast. This is actually my second time interviewing Ashley because she was a guest on Best Lead Plans. But I feel like her message is solevant and so interesting and important that I wanted to share her with the best of both worlds audience as well. Ashley leads a company called Routine and Things, and she's going to teach us all about routines, why they're important, how to make them, how not to make them, and more so, Ashley, do you want to go ahead and introduce yourself. Yes, Hey, Sarah, Hi everyone. My name is Ashley Brown. I am the owner founder of Routine and Things. I'm also my mom, love to I have two young girls, three and five, so still in that phase of like, I love y'all, but also sometimes it's a little bit too much. So, and also live in Baltimore, Maryland with my family, which is my two girls and my husband, and so I am super excited to chat about routines today. Well, my first question is why, like, what struck you about routines that you actually I guess I think our listeners would also be interested in hearing kind of your career trajectory and that inspired you to go from a more traditional career path to really really focusing on routines and spreading your message about routines. Why. Yeah, So I'm going to take you back to twenty seventeen, like twenty seventeen kind of going into twenty eighteen. I was a nurse educator. I taught nursing for over six years, and at that time I had just recently started, maybe like a year into it, and at that time I had a little baby. I had just had my first girl, and I wanted to be at home with my baby girl. You know, like all us moms, you're like, no, I don't want like I don't want to leave them. Many of us are like, I don't want to leave my child. Like I don't know. It just feels so much when you're working and then you have to leave your child. I feel like it's not an instinctual thing at all, and it's like I want to be here. So I really wanted to do that, and at that time, we weren't able to do it because we needed to pay bills, me and my husband, But eventually decided my husband started a business and then he was like, okay, well me really, I was like, Belle, you're doing great, Like let me come home for a little bit. And so I came home to as a stay at home mom with my daughter and me not knowing anything about being a stay at home mom, not knowing any stay at home moms. I thought it was gonna be a walk in the park. It wasn't. So. To make a long story short, life really got hard and unmanageable, and things fell apart, especially even my mental health. I got depressed, really depressed at the time, and what really brought me back to feeling great in my life were routines. And of course I'm a huge guy girl too. Routines really helped to shift things from me, honestly, and I never knew the power of them before this time. I've always been routine oriented, but I had never been very intentional with creating routines. They had always just fallen into place, and so at that point I was very intentional and they really helped me to feel better in my life. And then it's so funny because once I got back to a point of feeling really good, I ended up going back to work as a nurse educator full time. And then eventually about two years later, I was able, well, I started the business routine and things. That mean, let me pause and say that I started the business routine and things. After I realized, oh, routines helped me, I was like, you know what, I want to teach other women? Of course, that's a teacher in me, like I want to teach other women how to create routines and how to manage life well using the power of routines. And so I got that up and going ended up going back to work, still continue doing the business, and then eventually, like two years later, I left full time in my job and I'm in routine and things full time now, which I'm super excited about. I love it. I have so much fun with it. It's such a passion of mine. And I get to do one what I'm good at, which is teaching and coaching, which is what I did in my profession, but also I get to do what I'm good at, but also what I love. So it's a beautiful thing. And you have that flexibility that you craved in the beginning. But I think that's so interesting how you well, you wanted to be home with your baby, which you know, a lot of people have that inclination a lot of people. You know, it's not universal necessarily, some people still crave that structure of going back to work. But you wanted to be home. And then when you got home, it wasn't what you expected. And part of what was missing was the routines. And once you figured that out, you were like, I need everybody else to know about this as well, so that they can learn from my own experiences. So I just love that. Yeah, Okay, So in terms of routines, I am super interested in, well, what are your favorite routines to focus on? And I'm curious because this podcast does have a number of listeners with young children or who may be going back to work after a maternity leave, what routines tend to be like the most important around those difficult transitions. Oh man, I really feel as if my favorite routines and even this goes into which ones are great for transition. One my planning plan and routine. I think that's like needs to be a staple for just anybody, especially when you're a parent, Like it's so important for you to have just be able to plan because it does so much for your mental health. Really, it honestly does a lot for your mental health more so, and so planning routine is really huge and that's one of my favorites. But also I've really believed that morning and bedtime routines are very crucial and because they're foundational parts of your day, they are really helpful when you have a morning bedtime routine because they deal with your wellness, right, we need to be getting enough sleep. We need to be waking up in a way where we can set an intention, set the tone for the day in order for that to shift into our entire day at least, you know, as much as possible. And so morning and bedtime routines, even in transition, can help you to feel a sense of foundation and groundedness even when everything else is changing. And so those are the routines that are my favorite, and I really think they're really important for transitions specifically. I love that so planning routine, which I can obviously get behind. I feel like I owe my life feeling manageable to my planning routines, So I want to talk about that one even more. And then the morning and evening routines in part because they kind of support that foundation habit of setting your tone for your day. And also sleep, which as a newer parent or even a less new parent, can often be challenging and yet impact every other facet of our lives, especially we notice it when it's not going well exactly. Yes, plannings, take me a little bit in detail into some of your plan routines, and like how someone might go and craft their own planning routines, especially if they're kind of haphazard and in a more reactive mode. Currently. Oh yes, So my plan and routine is very simple. So the first thing that I do. First of all, I always have me a cup of coffee. That's what That's always the case when I plan, and that's like my little joy and my routine is like the coffee. I love planning too, so it brings me joy. But that's also a piece of joy for me. And so I always have me a cup of coffee. And then what I do because I usually plan weekly, like weekly is my thing, it's typically on Fridays. I just did it today because tomorrow I'm focusing on cleaning the house, and I'm like, let me do it today. So I just did it today. But basically what I do and my plan and routine is I sit down and I brain dump. That's the first thing that I do. I just get everything out of my head. What have I been thinking about, What am I thinking about now? What needs to happen, what's even Like I'll take out my phone to and look on my calendar and see what's coming up. And so that's the first thing. It's like brain dump. The second thing that I do after that is really decide my top three priorities, which is really important, so that I know these are things that no matter what happens throughout the week, I really want to try to get them done, these three things, and I ask myself three questions that are really important, and that is what's coming up that I need to prepare for, what would make me extremely happy to do, and what have I been putting off that must be done this week? So I ask myself those three questions and those typically become my top three priorities, honestly. And then the last thing that I do is just map out the rest of my week. But what I'm really huge about, and that's like the third step of the routine is mapping out the rest of the week. But things that I really consider is one, I don't put a lot on my plate. When it comes to my weeks. I typically will have because I already have a workday. So that's like different planning, like which I already have my work day when I'm doing in my workday, and so outside of my workday, I typically will not do more than one typically one thing, but then I might get to two if it's something small. So that's really what I do, and it really helps me because it gives my life more space and like buffer so that when things come up, which we know as parents they do, I don't feel like, oh my gosh, I wasn't able to get all of these things done. It's like, no, you have buffer room. Actually it's okay. You might be able to get it done tomorrow or the next day, or break it up into you know, break up that task and to multiple pieces and just get it done little by little. So that is how my plan and routine works. I love it, and especially the permission not to put like everything you can think on of on that weekly list. I mean, I know, I'm big about that. It's like really focusing on like you know, you may have a million tasks out there, but they don't all belong on your daily list or your weekly list. You have to choose. You have to look at like that size horizon and see what actually fits. And it sounds like you may do even a better job than me of deciding like what's actually realistic here in this given time bucket of seven days. So that's awesome. I love that, do you well? Spoiler alert. We're going to talk about your new planner a little bit as well. But do you do this process on paper? Do you use an electronic tool a combination of both? How do you actually go about doing this? Yeah? I do it on paper. Like I'm a huge pans of paper girl. I don't know why. I mean, I think when I'm a visual learner, so it's really helpful for me. But something about the pans of paper is very therapeutic, like mentally for me. And so I've tried digital planning. It just doesn't it doesn't feel the same for me. But I know some people absolutely love it because it works with their brain and how they are. And I'm like, do it do what works for you? And even trying new things I think is really important too. So no one right way? Yeah, okay, So aside from planning routines, you know there are other routines, especially again with little kids or with bigger kids that might go around bedtime or after school or you know, whatever part of day. What are some best practices as you go through thinking through them? And also where have you seen people kind of go wrong? Like what pitfalls can come about when you're trying to craft these routines. Yeah, So some best practices I'll start there is one keeping your routine simple. Like I don't care what type of routine you're trying to create, keep it simple. And that means like really lessening the amount of steps that you have in the routine. Making sure the specific actions you're doing in the routine are simple for either you to do or your children to do. That is super important. So simplicity is key. Another thing that is really important when you are creating any routine is to make sure it's realistic to whoever is involved in the routine and also realistic for the season of life that you're in. So sometimes just for this is just like a blanket example or just a specific example is if you're a new mom and you're like, oh, I want a morning routine and you want it to like you're like, I'm gonna wake up at You're like, I'm gonna wake up at six, but you know you're not really getting enough sleep and you're like i'm gonna wake up at six and i'm gonna journal and i'm gonna do this, and i'm gonna do that. It may not be realistic for your life right now, which is Okay, right, one day, you're gonna be able to do that, but you really wanted to really fit your lifestyle because that's when it's gonna be more successful. So that's another key point there. And then also a last one I'll share with you, and I think this one is really important, is that we try to at least have some type of fun in our routines. I know, routines to some people are like these rigid things, which they don't have to because I'm huge on flexibility, but like we're like, oh, these rigid things that get mundane and boring, and it's like, no, they're only boring if you make them that way, so they like add in the fun. You can add in things to your routine. Pair your routine with things that bring you joy, like I talked about the coffee with my plan and routine. Add in little things even like for your children's routines, how can you make those more fun for your kids? Like that is super important And those are some key key things for you to take away when you're building routines. Ah, I love that. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break and we're gonna be right back with maybe some pitfalls. That you've seen before. All right, we are back. So we heard some really good best practices. I love the one about the fun and that that actually resonates with me very much with my kids bedtime routine because because it can't be pure drudgery for them or they are going to resist it. And we've had a lot more success with our current bedtime routine, and I think that's because the centerpiece of that is like snuggle time and like getting your back rubs and playing like they enjoy that part, and so getting through the brushing teeth and whatever and turning the TV off and having all that it's not all bad. Like they have something to look forward to. And I'm pretty sure that without that it would have been like just a massive fail. So I think that's just and I never really thought about that, but probably every routine should have something fun, something positive. Yes, any routine, even for yourself, your routines need to have some type of thing you look forward to. I mean, because it's not going to always be things that you want to do on your routine. You know they're helpful for you, but at least if you look forward to something, it can help you continue doing your routine. Okay, so I want to talk about the pitfalls. I'll point out two pitfalls that I typically see. The first, this one is we get really excited when it comes time for us to create routines. We get really excited and we get over exzealous, and it's like we want to either try to create multiple routines all at once, or we will put a lot in our routine that goes back to the simplicity point that I made. Because we're just excited. It's like, wait, I'm about to change this. It's about to feel better for me. Life is going to feel a little bit more easier. And so we're just excited. But we do way too much when it comes to us starting our routine. So always focus on one routine at a time. I know it may take you time to continue to build your routines, but that's going to be more sustainable for you. So one routine at a time, and also keep your routine simple. Do not add a bunch to your routine. The second pitfall that I typically see is we do not assess our routines before we change them. So many of us will like try to do a total overhaul of our routine. So for example, you may be wanting to start a morning routine. So what you do is be like, Okay, my morning routine is gonna look like this and this and this, and it's like, but wait, you didn't even assess what was working or not working in your current routine. You may not need to overhaul your entire routine. And so I'm big on assessing first what's working, maybe one or two things that may not be working, and then just tweak those things. Tweak like one or two things at a time, because when you're doing any type of change, it takes time for you to adjust. So if you're making this huge change, it's gonna it's really gonna shock your mind and even your body, and it might not you might not address as easily. So just tweak your routine a little bit. Don't try to old overhaul your routine, but definitely assess first. Those are the two pitfalls that I see so much. Do you think that people benefit from like writing out their routinees because I also feel like sometimes people may do things that they don't even realize our routines unless they acknowledge them as such. And if they were to do that and actually write out like the times they'd be like, oh, that's why i'm late for work Bridge exactly. Yes, I do recommend that. I'm always like, write out your routine. When you're assessing your routines. One, you always want to write it out because you may be missing things that if you're just thinking about it in your head. But writing it out can be really great because you visually see what you're doing. But then even also when you're creating a routine, I think it's really beneficial for you to write it out as well, just because it also helps with memory and like recalling and retaining your routine. And so, yes, no, that makes sense. I guess I have one other Well, I want you to talk about your planner as well, But I wanted to ask, like I was just thinking as you're speaking, like you have made an amazing career pivot. You already were on a really cool career trajectory, but then you took a break and you you took another one. What was it like building this brand new business? Like? How did you learn all the things you needed to learn? Was it scary? Like what was that like making that kind of mid career transition? Oh? Man, yeah, it was. It was interesting because I loved what I did. I think this was the piece for me. I loved what I did. I loved teaching. I taught nursing, but I taught specifically for anybody that's in the healthcare field or even not. But I taught simulation, which is I worked with the students wear their hands on, working with like mannequins in like a fake scenario of caring for a patient. So not only was I teaching, I was also coaching them in the moment of how to change behavior, which is something that I absolutely loved. It was such a joy to do, but it just didn't fit with the life, my lifestyle anymore at a certain point in time, especially when COVID came about. So it was I wouldn't say it was scary so much because I'm I'm a risk taker. I'm just gonna be very honest I am. Even though I'm type A, I am a risk taker, like I'm like no, because I have faith and it's like if it doesn't work out. I also feel security because my career isn't nursing, so I feel like I could always get a job, and I think that's what helped me take the risk. And so it was this thought of, Okay, how is this gonna look. But I was just willing to do it because I knew that it was purposeful. I was intentional about what I was doing. I also had saved up a good amount of money before I left, and so I was like, let's see if it works. If not, I can always get another job. I love what I do, so it'll be fine. And so that for me was kind of that transition. And because I also know that I'm really great at self management, I kind of felt as if it was going to be easier for me to even be able to keep my business flowing because I'm good at like when I need to get something done, is going to get done. I manage my energy very well. I take care of myself very well, and so I knew I was in the right mental space and that really and therapy really helped me with the mental space component being a really great mental space. But also I've had coaches along the way, like business coaches, and so they teach a lot on mindset too, and so I felt like I was prepared when I went into the business. And so I'm having fun. I'm so happy with my lifestyle there and you're making so many things. What is it like to design a product and see that come to fruition? Ooh, designing product, Oh my gosh, it's beautiful. It's a beautiful process. But it's definitely worked because I'm very intentional with like how I'm one. I work with a graphic designer, so I always like to put that out there, which is with the colors and that piece. I'm always the one I sketch how I want the pad or the planner to look, so I'm like, I want this here, I want this here, and then they'll feel in like the colors and the fonts and things like that. But that process is very much a process because you have to think about what is really going to be helpful for people. I don't just want to put something on paper just because it looks good. I needed to be intentionally laid out and make sense for the women that I'm praying it for. And so I'm very intentional with weight. Okay, how much space do they have? Is it too much space? Because we'll try to feel in everything, so is it too much space? They need to do some brain dumping, they need, you know, like we need help in really prioritizing and thinking about what can be beneficial for our day to day. So did I put anything like that in here to help guide their thinking. So I'm really picky and just intentional with how I design things, which makes it even more of a process. But once I have it laid out and I'm like, Okay, I think this will be really beneficial. And it's also scary because you never know if people are gonna like it. That's the other thing. You're like, I don't know if people are gonna like this. I believe that it's going to be helpful bas upon when I'm hearing from y'all, but like, I don't know if you're actually going to benefit from or like it. But I'm really good now. In the beginning, I wasn't as good at testing, but I tested the planner. So that was something that was really important for me to really see if it was really helpful for women that makes sense and something that you learned along the way. That was like trial in our iterations design thinking. That's that's so cool. Tell our listeners we're gonna do it. We're gonna do it day in the life. That's next. But I want you to be able to tell them you know who might benefit from your planner and what makes it special. Yes, So the routine in things planner is all about helping you get organized and into routine. And who's going to really benefit most from the planner is women who feel as if your day to day is super chaotic and you're in a very overwhelming season where you feel like you really need to get organized and you want to use planning and routine to help you get there. Because the planner includes the planning aspect but also the routine building aspect, where you're going to be incorporating routines into your life. Over time, you will be able to create four routines in a year and just gradually incorporate them into your life. And so that's what the planner is really great for. And the special part about our planner one is that it includes planning and routines. And the reason why I say that is because I don't think that many of us understand that planning and routines are both organizational tools, and some of us just always use planning and we still wonder why why am I still overwhelmed? I'm planning every week, but I'm still overwhelmed and it's like you're missing the routine component, which is the foundations that you consistently do and the actions you consistently do there are supportive practices in your life. So that's one how it's very different. Two, the routine block planning method is inside the Planner, which I am so excited about. It is a very simple planning method where you are organizing your weekly task into four routine categories. Those categories are self care, family, cleaning, and cooking. And it's such a visual type of planning method that I think people who are visual learners will actually appreciate and it just, oh my god, it does so much for just your brain. It does so much for how you lay out your days, keeping you focused and like anchored to the things that actually matter in your day to day so that you can remain sane and just feel like you're feel like you are tackling the things that actually matter in a day today and not forgetting these things that can get lost in the shuffle of life. So that is the really special component about the Planning. I took one look at that and was like, I need to putcolor pens all over that. Like it's very inviting to write on and it like it really does invite itself to like different color coding, and I'm gonna play with it and hopefully I'll post some examples on my blog or something because it's irresistible. Oh my gosh. All right, well, Ashley tell us, since our listeners enjoy it and we always get requests for this, give us like a day in the life of Ashley Brown with her three and five year old and her business owning self. Oh my gosh. Okay, so a day in the life, and my days typically look pretty similar, so I would say I'll even share about what I'm doing today. So I woke up and I usually get myself ready first before I get the girls ready for school because they are in school, and so got myself ready, then got the girls ready, even though my husband this morning got them ready typically I do. He got them ready this morning, so it just depends on how I'm feeling. Like I wasn't feeling the best this morning, y'all, so it was like, Hubby, you gotta step in. So he got them ready and then they ate breakfast. He packed their lunches for today. I was still getting ready. I don't know why I was so slow. Moving this morning. But and so finally I came downstairs when they were about to hit out the door. We both typically dropped them off to school, which is a blessing that we're able to do that. But we dropped them off to school, and we're done with drop off typically by eight am, So that's when me and him usually come back to the house. He goes off and starts his workday, which he's a project manager, so he starts doing that, and then I'm here at the house typically and I'll start my workday, so that looks like one. I'll eat first and then make me a cup of coffee, come down to the basement, and I start my work day. I already know what I'm doing because I've already mapped out my week the previous week, and so I know today I'm focusing on. I typically in my workday don't do more than three core things, like today it was like the podcast interview with Sarah, and I am doing my weekly planning for next week and then also packaging orders. So those are the things I'm doing right three and so those are the things that I'm doing. I will get them done. I'll probably be done working by honestly, eleven thirty. I'll probably be done working by eleven thirty. And then what I'm gonna do after that, I typically will take a walk after I get done with working. I am typically done with working at twelve. I'm just gonna be very honest. I'm typically done at twelve, and so I take a walk, and then I come back. I make me some lunch, I eat, I rest, I may even fold some clothes. But I have something to quick to do around here, may wash the dishes, and then I'll go pick up my daughters. My first, my youngest daughter has to be picked up by two thirty. My oldest daughter has to be picked up by three, and so then we're back to the house. Usually no later than three fifteen. We're back to the house. And then once they get here, we'll do like they're after school, things like snag. They'll watch TV. They'll play up in the playroom. They'll come outside and sit with me. I love sitting outside on my porch, and so they'll come outside, pull the doll house outside, play with the doll house, sit with me, and so we'll be like playing and just chilling up until I would say five thirty and then that's when I started making dinner. Make dinner, we eat, we play, They get on our nerves. Y'all know how young kids are. Oh yes, you're like, okay, it's about to be time for bed, Saint gone. And so then typically around seven is when we head upstairs. We do their bedtime routine. They're in bed no later than eight, unless my husband is getting them ready for bed, and then it's eight thirty nine. I'm like, baby, you gotta get together. Ours is similar, and then it's like if that happens, I'm like, well, you own it because this was you know, they would have been a saving So I'm invited to read quietly and relation you can finish up the process exactly. And so typically they're sleep by at least eight thirty, like they're in bed by eight, but they're sleep by eight thirty. And when they get in bed, I typically will start doing my bedtime routine, which is typically showering, and then I journal I met a take. My husband is still downstairs because he loves he's a night out and loves to stay up, and I'm like, that's not me. So he sometimes gets upset, but I'm like, baby, I need my sleep so I'll typically do my bedtime routine. He may come upstairs and hang out with me for a little bit and then I fall asleep and that's my day and we just do the same thing over again. I love it. That was awesome. That was an excellent Well that's because you're so aware of what your routines are, not everybody is, which I think to me is the one huge takeaway from your work. I really do feel like after listening to you, I started just becoming so much more aware of my own routines and the power they hold. And that's actually made a huge just just the thinking about it as like this is very important because we do it every single day has been so helpful. Okay, we have one more thing we have to do, which is a love of the week, and I forgot to warn you. So I'm going to do mine first so you can think about what yours is going to be. It can be anything. Could be like the weather, it could be like this book, I read, a TV show, this product, anything you want. Okay, So mine is random. But my ears are very sensitive, like not in hearing, but from earrings standpoint, Like I will react to like every metal and like get these giant like possible, It's terrible. And so I finally was like, I gotta try some earrings that are like super super hypoallergenic. So I looked it up and I found this company. It's this is not an ad, by the way, they don't care about me. It's called Teenylocks T I N I l u X and their titanium studs. And I can wear earrings now, and I'm so happy and like I can keep i can wear them day after day and I'm not getting itchy and I'm not getting like infected, and I'm just super excited because it's been a really long time since I've been able to wear earrings. Wow, So I love That's my love of the week, daring. Thank you for sharing that, because I used to be really sensitive to jewelry too, so that would have been helpful then. I'm not as sensitive now, but even if I see that my girls are, then they would be helpful to know. Yes, yes, So thank you, thank you so much. My love of the week. I would have to say a book that I just got finished reading. It is called Life Starts Now by Chanelle Docun. It is absolutely amazing. Oh my gosh, I'm like every woman, I feel like every person, but it's specifically written for women should read this book. It is all about purpose in a different way, like how we have perceived purpose like her how she helps you really define what your purpose is in life in a very intentional way. But it has so much depth to her book that even and I've done a lot of just self development, self work, I'm such a like a huge life learner, and so even the way in which she spoke about certain things, it really blew my mind and it helped me define even more so my purpose. And so I really suggest this book for everyone. Life starts now. It is absolutely amazed, pecially if you feel like you're drowning in life. If you feel like you're drowning and you're like, wait, what's going on day to day? You're not feeling well? Because I feel like we all at a certain point go through that time where we do feel like we're drowning. Well, like why does life not feel good? M h? It has more, it has She's giving you more to think about other than just organization. What else like deeper, like deeper, that deeper thing, which I really love. So yeah, that sounds amazing and spell her last name, and I will make sure to also link it in our notes. Yes, it's d okay, you in got it perfect? Thank you so much. Well, Ashley, it has been a pleasure. I love chatting with you. I'll have to have you back on Fascilaid Plans again, so we'll just keep this going. So tell our listeners where they can find you. Yes, so you can find me either at routinathings dot com, which is the website where everything is housed, or I love hanging out on Instagram, so please come follow along on Instagram at routine and Things Awesome. Well, thank you, it's been so much fun. Thank you, Sarah. All right, well, that was wonderful. We always love hearing from Ashley about routines. She's been on Sarah's other podcast, Bestly Plans before, so I encourage people to go listen to that episode if you want more from Ashley. I'm glad that she could join us for this one. So Sarah, question here tips for implementing the this well, okay, back up here. One of the Tranquility by Tuesday rules is to do effortful fun before effortless fun. And I know many of us one of the reasons I like this rule is I know a lot of us have been struggling with feeling like much of our leisure time is spent scrolling. So this listener writes that she hates that she ends up scrolling whenever she gets a chance to finally sit down, but her time often comes in these really unpredictable small chunks. So, Sarah, someone who has sort of successfully limited your time on social media and random headlines scrolling, what wound up working for you? I mean, for me, the complete exit was helpful. I don't know if that's something that this listener necessarily wants to do, but there's always that option which is going to leave you more interested in other things. So thinking about whether, at least for a time, you might want to explore other options by taking that one completely off the table, by taking it off your phone and maybe even leaving a little away message of sorts. But even if you don't want to do that, really, thinking of some quick but easy effort for fun activities ahead of time could be helpful. Examples might be a Kindle book that you go to on your phone, or an app like do a Lingo that you can complete segments in small chunks. Maybe you're doing some sort of photo book making, and you could do that in small bursts. I mean, the possibilities are endless little meditations, or listening to a certain musical work, or like you're trying to get through a certain artist's entire catalog, like oh, I'm going to lie down and relax and listen to a couple of these songs. Whatever. You know, these are all just examples you do you and whatever makes you excited. But I do think thinking through what would be truly fun, but not necessarily as ever, list ahead of the time might be helpful. Yeah, I think having a list so you're not just trying to think of it in the moment, and having them be things that are genuinely enjoyable. I mean, if you're reading a book you really like, you start looking for times to go read it, as opposed to, you know, if you're going to try and make yourself do something you don't want to do, like that gets rid of the whole idea of leisure time. I mean, the reason we do social media is that it is vaguely fun and rewarding, and so it's something easy that can fit this time. So you figure out something else that does that. I think you know, if you have a magazine with you, like if you get stuck waiting for small bits of time places, often you can read a short article in a magazine, and many of them are perfectly fluffy. I'm not saying they're that much better than Instagram, but it's it's still not online. So if there are certain things that are making you feel icky online, there's a little bit less of that. When it had to go through an editorial team to wind up on a page. There's just a slightly higher level of editing going on into it that might make it feel a little bit less icky for you. I know, I've been trying to protect some of the bigger chunks of leisure time for truly analog fun. I've been trying to get more printed books. I love being able to read on my phone, and certainly when I'm putting Henry to bed, that's the only way I can read, So it's always going to be time that I am on the phone. But if I have a book I would like to read, I am motivated to then get to my room at say nine thirty ten o'clock, and if I don't have to turn out lights till eleven, I've got sixty to ninety minutes that I can just be off the phone and doing this, and that often feels much more rewarding. But I think one of the best ways to kind of get yourself over this hurdle is to even just like set a timer. Like when I say, do effortful fun before effortless fun. I'm not saying you have to do it forever. It's just that you do it before. So if you are doing let's say you know you've got a little chunk of time, go read something like go read an ebook for two minutes, and then after you do that that you can go scroll all you want. But it's just flip that automatic order of things so that you don't start with the effortless fun and they feel bad. You can start with the effortful fun and then guilt free go to the effortless fun if you want to. And often if it's a you know, if it's a good book, if it's something else the hobby you want to do, you'll keep going with it. But even if you don't like, you can still have both kinds of fun, and that can make leisure time, even in small chunks feel a little bit more rewarding. Oh I love that. Yeah, and sometimes people will just stick with the more effortful anyway, So yeah, exactly. But if you don't, that's okay too. It's true. You can read a chapter in More and Peace and then go bende on selling Sunset for two hours and still be the kind of person who does both. So it's all good, all right. This has been best of both worlds. Sarah has been interviewing Ashley Brown of Routine and Things. We will be back next week with more on making work in life fit together. Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the shoe box dot com or at the Underscore Box on Instagram, and you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the best of Both Worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more on making work and life work together.