Also media, Ah, what's Dick my Cheney's This is Behind the Bastards, a podcast where every week we talk about the great decisions being made by the Democratic Party, which this week includes really really burnishing their Dick Cheney credentials. We'll see how that works out in about three weeks with me to talk about, you know something related to this election is our lovely Yeah, is our lovely guest today A contributing writer at Rolling Stone and contributing editor at Wired, Noah Shackedman. Noah, welcome to the podcast program show.

Also media, Ah, what's Dick my Cheney's This is Behind the Bastards, a podcast where every week we talk about the great decisions being made by the Democratic Party, which this week includes really really burnishing their Dick Cheney credentials. We'll see how that works out in about three weeks with me to talk about, you know something related to this election is our lovely Yeah, is our lovely guest today A contributing writer at Rolling Stone and contributing editor at Wired, Noah Shackedman. Noah, welcome to the podcast program show.

You gave this very confused look in between. My first and last name was over time.

You gave this very confused look in between. My first and last name was over time.

I wrote your the stuff you wanted me to, because we have a different intro for you this time. I wrote it up at the top of the piece, And so the top of the piece is just the words Peter Teel because that's the sub of our episodes. So at the top of my article it says contributing writer Rolling Stone, contributing editor at Wired, Peter Teal And wait a second while, so I had to like catch my brain and fix it in between.

I wrote your the stuff you wanted me to, because we have a different intro for you this time. I wrote it up at the top of the piece, And so the top of the piece is just the words Peter Teel because that's the sub of our episodes. So at the top of my article it says contributing writer Rolling Stone, contributing editor at Wired, Peter Teal And wait a second while, so I had to like catch my brain and fix it in between.

Look, I welcome my new colleague.

Look, I welcome my new colleague.

Yeah, Peter Teel would be a great guest on the program. But I wouldn't do Peter Teal for the you know what, I might do Dick Cheney for the Peter Teal episode about who does me? Yeah, Peter Teal? Noah oh Man, So yeah, Noah. How do you feel about being friendly with Dick Cheney. It's a good decision. Is this going to work out for the Harris campaign?

Yeah, Peter Teel would be a great guest on the program. But I wouldn't do Peter Teal for the you know what, I might do Dick Cheney for the Peter Teal episode about who does me? Yeah, Peter Teal? Noah oh Man, So yeah, Noah. How do you feel about being friendly with Dick Cheney. It's a good decision. Is this going to work out for the Harris campaign?

You know?

You know?

Uh?

Uh?

I am not incredibly bullish on the old befriending war criminal campaign strategy.

I am not incredibly bullish on the old befriending war criminal campaign strategy.

It's the it's an impart a decision you make if like you don't understand Republicans because like I grew up loving, like with a family that loved George W. Bush right, Like he was a hero in my household as a kid, and no one liked Dick Cheney, Like they didn't hate him, but like he was not a figure of admiration to anyone in my family, like because he was. That was kind of the point of Dick Cheney is he was like the guy behind the scenes that you don't need to like very much. It's just confusing to me that they think there's a bunch of Republicans out there who will change their vote based on this.

It's the it's an impart a decision you make if like you don't understand Republicans because like I grew up loving, like with a family that loved George W. Bush right, Like he was a hero in my household as a kid, and no one liked Dick Cheney, Like they didn't hate him, but like he was not a figure of admiration to anyone in my family, like because he was. That was kind of the point of Dick Cheney is he was like the guy behind the scenes that you don't need to like very much. It's just confusing to me that they think there's a bunch of Republicans out there who will change their vote based on this.

It was wild at the DNZ how credible it was that this rumor that George W. Bush was going to come out and speak at the DNC.

It was wild at the DNZ how credible it was that this rumor that George W. Bush was going to come out and speak at the DNC.

I would have lost my mind.

I would have lost my mind.

Everyone was like, Oh, he's coming, He's coming.

Everyone was like, Oh, he's coming, He's coming.

It was.

It was.

It was like more credible than Beyonce.

It was like more credible than Beyonce.

It's happening here. Yeah, there's there's still time. There's still time, and you know who. I don't know if he's he's got a chance to be worse than George W. Bush. I wouldn't say he's there yet. Peter Teal, Peter Tele Uh, And that's what we're going to talk about when we come back from the cold open to warm things up a little bit. Noah, so we're back, Peter Teal, how would you describe in brief if someone is like, hey, I hear there's this Peter tele guy who's influencing elections or whatever. Who is he? How would you describe Peter Teal? What would be your like elevator, Like, Oh, that's who this guy is.

It's happening here. Yeah, there's there's still time. There's still time, and you know who. I don't know if he's he's got a chance to be worse than George W. Bush. I wouldn't say he's there yet. Peter Teal, Peter Tele Uh, And that's what we're going to talk about when we come back from the cold open to warm things up a little bit. Noah, so we're back, Peter Teal, how would you describe in brief if someone is like, hey, I hear there's this Peter tele guy who's influencing elections or whatever. Who is he? How would you describe Peter Teal? What would be your like elevator, Like, Oh, that's who this guy is.

He's like the power behind like the weirdest curtain.

He's like the power behind like the weirdest curtain.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I guess this is how I would describe it, like deeply strange, deeply influential. I think it would be my elevator pitch.

I guess this is how I would describe it, like deeply strange, deeply influential. I think it would be my elevator pitch.

Yeah, Yeah, he's I would say, like, he's the guy whose money is responsible for getting Oh shit, what's his name? The hillbilly jd Vance started. He's the guy who you know, like backed Trump pretty early on in twenty sixteen. He was the you know, the billionaire who came up and endorsed him at the RNC that year and talked about how like he was supporting the Republicans as a gay man. These are all glad about Peter Teeter.

Yeah, Yeah, he's I would say, like, he's the guy whose money is responsible for getting Oh shit, what's his name? The hillbilly jd Vance started. He's the guy who you know, like backed Trump pretty early on in twenty sixteen. He was the you know, the billionaire who came up and endorsed him at the RNC that year and talked about how like he was supporting the Republicans as a gay man. These are all glad about Peter Teeter.

I'm really glad you're able to forget jd Vance's name like that. That feels That feels healthy to me.

I'm really glad you're able to forget jd Vance's name like that. That feels That feels healthy to me.

Yeah. It took a lot of work and a lot of gas station substances, but I managed to do it, and managed to do it. It was mixing the kraton Clemato and then one of those yellow jackets truckers take together. I reached a state of what I think the Buddhists called nirvana, and yeah, all knowledge of jd Vance fled from my mind.

Yeah. It took a lot of work and a lot of gas station substances, but I managed to do it, and managed to do it. It was mixing the kraton Clemato and then one of those yellow jackets truckers take together. I reached a state of what I think the Buddhists called nirvana, and yeah, all knowledge of jd Vance fled from my mind.

Dude, I'm gonna fucking throw up on a keyboard. Yeah, I mean, it seems like it's like in the weirdo crypto fascist right, if you follow the roots down far enough, it.

Dude, I'm gonna fucking throw up on a keyboard. Yeah, I mean, it seems like it's like in the weirdo crypto fascist right, if you follow the roots down far enough, it.

All comes back to Peter. Yeah.

All comes back to Peter. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And there's a couple of ways of looking at Tel. One of them is he is a capitalist Lenin, And what I mean by that, I'm not comparing the two like ideologically, but Lenin is a guy who grew up kind of in the upper middle class strata of his society and from an extremely early age hated the system that he lived under because his brother was killed by the czar, and dedicated himself to its destruction, and he went about destroying that system very methodically and very effectively. Right, Peter is a guy who grew up in the upper middle class strata of his culture always seems to have hated the systems that ran the country he lived in, and dedicated himself from an early age at getting resources and then kind of methodically destroying the system, which is representative democracy, that he lived under. That's one way of looking at Peter. The other is that Peter is a guy who is fairly intelligent, has okay instincts, but not as good as he thinks they are, and he's just kind of been careening from point to point, making gambles that have led him to this position where he is now backing the Republicans to the hilt in order to hopefully crumble the system of democracy enough that like he gets to rule his own little bitty city somewhere on the West coast, right, Like one of them is Peter Teel is the master Plotter, and the other is that he's this kind of like reactive figure. And I don't actually know which is the better way to look at this guy is some of it's got to come down to like personal preference. But he's an interesting character, and I think he's probably, of all of the figures on the right now, one of the ones that it's more it's easiest to kind of respect at an intellectual level because he's very smart and he's succeeded in a lot of his Like the reason why the master Plottery thing kind of has a lot of traction is he's been very successful in a lot of his goals over time, Like he's been willing to, he's been able to. He has a degree of like focus and discipline that's fairly rare on the right.

And there's a couple of ways of looking at Tel. One of them is he is a capitalist Lenin, And what I mean by that, I'm not comparing the two like ideologically, but Lenin is a guy who grew up kind of in the upper middle class strata of his society and from an extremely early age hated the system that he lived under because his brother was killed by the czar, and dedicated himself to its destruction, and he went about destroying that system very methodically and very effectively. Right, Peter is a guy who grew up in the upper middle class strata of his culture always seems to have hated the systems that ran the country he lived in, and dedicated himself from an early age at getting resources and then kind of methodically destroying the system, which is representative democracy, that he lived under. That's one way of looking at Peter. The other is that Peter is a guy who is fairly intelligent, has okay instincts, but not as good as he thinks they are, and he's just kind of been careening from point to point, making gambles that have led him to this position where he is now backing the Republicans to the hilt in order to hopefully crumble the system of democracy enough that like he gets to rule his own little bitty city somewhere on the West coast, right, Like one of them is Peter Teel is the master Plotter, and the other is that he's this kind of like reactive figure. And I don't actually know which is the better way to look at this guy is some of it's got to come down to like personal preference. But he's an interesting character, and I think he's probably, of all of the figures on the right now, one of the ones that it's more it's easiest to kind of respect at an intellectual level because he's very smart and he's succeeded in a lot of his Like the reason why the master Plottery thing kind of has a lot of traction is he's been very successful in a lot of his goals over time, Like he's been willing to, he's been able to. He has a degree of like focus and discipline that's fairly rare on the right.

Yeah, it's pretty weird, wells, isn't he also like drinking the blood of younger people or something like that.

Yeah, it's pretty weird, wells, isn't he also like drinking the blood of younger people or something like that.

We're going to talk about that later on in the series. It's unclear to me if he's ever drank any young people's blood, but he's definitely been accused of it and has like expressed an interest in it. I think the guy who definitely is drinking young people's blood is Brian Johnson. That like like rich founder dude who's obsessed with reducing his biological age back to seventeen. He takes his son's blood as a supplement. Really yeah, oh yeah, yeah, I mean he brags about it. Yeah, Like he's very open about that. Peter has always Peter is on the record to say I don't do that. He was just kind of He's invested in a lot of companies that did anti aging stuff, some of which like we're looking into plasma replacement, right, But it's unclear if he ever did it, and if he didn't do it, it would be because like he just didn't think it worked. He is a big advocate of taking human growth hormone as an anti aging supplement. So I think it's one of those things where if he doesn't, if he hasn't done the young people's blood thing, it's just because he decided the science wasn't.

We're going to talk about that later on in the series. It's unclear to me if he's ever drank any young people's blood, but he's definitely been accused of it and has like expressed an interest in it. I think the guy who definitely is drinking young people's blood is Brian Johnson. That like like rich founder dude who's obsessed with reducing his biological age back to seventeen. He takes his son's blood as a supplement. Really yeah, oh yeah, yeah, I mean he brags about it. Yeah, Like he's very open about that. Peter has always Peter is on the record to say I don't do that. He was just kind of He's invested in a lot of companies that did anti aging stuff, some of which like we're looking into plasma replacement, right, But it's unclear if he ever did it, and if he didn't do it, it would be because like he just didn't think it worked. He is a big advocate of taking human growth hormone as an anti aging supplement. So I think it's one of those things where if he doesn't, if he hasn't done the young people's blood thing, it's just because he decided the science wasn't.

There, or he's just so fucking roided out that he's.

There, or he's just so fucking roided out that he's.

Just yeah, the ruids have given him enough blood. There's no more room for blood in Peter's body. So no, Like many of the worst things on this earth, Peter Teel began in Germany, Frankfort to be specific, where he was born on October eleventh, nineteen sixty seven. His father, Klaus, was a chemical engineer who the very next year, sixty eight, got high by a consulting firm that specialized in heavy industry, including oil and gas refining. The founder of the company, Arthur G. McKee, had owned a series of steel foundries in the Cleveland area, where the Teals moved in nineteen sixty eight. So now, at this point, and I think this is probably clue to most of our listeners, in nineteen sixty eight, Cleveland is just a series of river fires with some subjects attached, right Like, It's not the city we know and tolerate today. It's nothing but the kyah Hogan burning and a couple of soot drenched houses. And the reason the Kyahogue is always on fire is guys like Arthur McKee, who runs steel boundaries.

Just yeah, the ruids have given him enough blood. There's no more room for blood in Peter's body. So no, Like many of the worst things on this earth, Peter Teel began in Germany, Frankfort to be specific, where he was born on October eleventh, nineteen sixty seven. His father, Klaus, was a chemical engineer who the very next year, sixty eight, got high by a consulting firm that specialized in heavy industry, including oil and gas refining. The founder of the company, Arthur G. McKee, had owned a series of steel foundries in the Cleveland area, where the Teals moved in nineteen sixty eight. So now, at this point, and I think this is probably clue to most of our listeners, in nineteen sixty eight, Cleveland is just a series of river fires with some subjects attached, right Like, It's not the city we know and tolerate today. It's nothing but the kyah Hogan burning and a couple of soot drenched houses. And the reason the Kyahogue is always on fire is guys like Arthur McKee, who runs steel boundaries.

You know.

You know.

So that is that Peter grows up with his dad kind of working in the destroying the planet industry, Like he's an oil and gas man working for an industrial magnate in fucking Cleveland. So Klaus works for a firm in Cleveland for a couple of years while he gets his graduate degree, and in nineteen seventy one, when Peter was four, his parents have a second child, Patrick now tealsby biographer Max Chafkin, author of The Contrarian, which is a book that will be a sizable source for this. Although I do have some disagree. I think Chaefkin's a very good writer, good biographer. There's a couple of areas where I disagree with them that we'll talk about here. But yeah, he has described Klaus and Peter's mom Suzanne, as fanatical Republicans who were absolutely gaga for Nixon. That may be true, you know, chaef Cains certainly knows more about this than me. However, Peter disagrees with that characterization of his parents. He doesn't seem to have considered them to have been fanatical Republicans or religious extremists, and chaf Can also kind of paints them as Christian like hardcore Christian conservatives. Peter is an outspoken Christian. It's unclear to me again, if this is just Peter disliking the description of himself and his parents as extremists, or if this is that Chase can you know, maybe doesn't have all of the context. We don't get a lot of detail about Teale's parents, so it's not perfectly clear, right. Chaefkin describes his father as cold, bordering on cruel at times. Again, this is a characterization Peter would disagree with, at least publicly in terms of like stories that paint that picture of his dad is cruel. I don't see a lot of really good detailed evidence about it. The story that Chafkin cites is kind of evidence of how cold and cruel Peter's dad was. Is a story that Peter tells a lot. Two biographers I've seen this or two interviewers I've seen this story recounted in a couple of different articles that interviewed Peter before Chaefgin's biography came out. And the story is that one day, when Peter is a little kid, like maybe four or five, he was looking at a rug in the family home that was made from a cow hide, and he asked his dad where did this rug come from? And Klaus, matter of fact, they explained that it was made from a dead cow. Peter asked, like, what what does it mean that something's dead? And his dad told him, quote, death happens to all animals, all people. It will happen to me one day, it will happen to you one day. And Chafkin describes this as a moment of like brutal honesty, and he kind of insinuates that it may have done some damage to Peter, writing that he quote would return to the cow and the brutal finality of the thing again and again, even in middle age. Now, it does seem to be accurate that Peter is stuck in his mind. I just don't know that I consider that a brutal description of death. That seems like, you know, kind of just factual, right, Like I had a conversation with my dad about death that wasn't all that different from this, right, Like, it happens to everything, it'll happen to me, it'll happen to you. Like how else do you explain death to a kid? Right?

So that is that Peter grows up with his dad kind of working in the destroying the planet industry, Like he's an oil and gas man working for an industrial magnate in fucking Cleveland. So Klaus works for a firm in Cleveland for a couple of years while he gets his graduate degree, and in nineteen seventy one, when Peter was four, his parents have a second child, Patrick now tealsby biographer Max Chafkin, author of The Contrarian, which is a book that will be a sizable source for this. Although I do have some disagree. I think Chaefkin's a very good writer, good biographer. There's a couple of areas where I disagree with them that we'll talk about here. But yeah, he has described Klaus and Peter's mom Suzanne, as fanatical Republicans who were absolutely gaga for Nixon. That may be true, you know, chaef Cains certainly knows more about this than me. However, Peter disagrees with that characterization of his parents. He doesn't seem to have considered them to have been fanatical Republicans or religious extremists, and chaf Can also kind of paints them as Christian like hardcore Christian conservatives. Peter is an outspoken Christian. It's unclear to me again, if this is just Peter disliking the description of himself and his parents as extremists, or if this is that Chase can you know, maybe doesn't have all of the context. We don't get a lot of detail about Teale's parents, so it's not perfectly clear, right. Chaefkin describes his father as cold, bordering on cruel at times. Again, this is a characterization Peter would disagree with, at least publicly in terms of like stories that paint that picture of his dad is cruel. I don't see a lot of really good detailed evidence about it. The story that Chafkin cites is kind of evidence of how cold and cruel Peter's dad was. Is a story that Peter tells a lot. Two biographers I've seen this or two interviewers I've seen this story recounted in a couple of different articles that interviewed Peter before Chaefgin's biography came out. And the story is that one day, when Peter is a little kid, like maybe four or five, he was looking at a rug in the family home that was made from a cow hide, and he asked his dad where did this rug come from? And Klaus, matter of fact, they explained that it was made from a dead cow. Peter asked, like, what what does it mean that something's dead? And his dad told him, quote, death happens to all animals, all people. It will happen to me one day, it will happen to you one day. And Chafkin describes this as a moment of like brutal honesty, and he kind of insinuates that it may have done some damage to Peter, writing that he quote would return to the cow and the brutal finality of the thing again and again, even in middle age. Now, it does seem to be accurate that Peter is stuck in his mind. I just don't know that I consider that a brutal description of death. That seems like, you know, kind of just factual, right, Like I had a conversation with my dad about death that wasn't all that different from this, right, Like, it happens to everything, it'll happen to me, it'll happen to you. Like how else do you explain death to a kid? Right?

Yeah, Yeah, I mean I don't know. That feels like pretty like a pretty weak antecedent for everything that's about to transpire.

Yeah, Yeah, I mean I don't know. That feels like pretty like a pretty weak antecedent for everything that's about to transpire.

I think what's going on here is that Peter is obsessed with death and dying.

I think what's going on here is that Peter is obsessed with death and dying.

Right.

Right.

He's put a huge amount of money into like reversing aging and anti senizence and all this kind of stuff. So like, he clearly is a guy who's obsessed with his own mortality, and like you're looking for evidence of that in his childhood, and he does tell this story. He told The New Yorker in twenty eleven that this was a quote very very disturbing day. So obviously this does stick in his mind. But I don't know that that makes the case that his dad is like cold because this I just don't see it from that anecdote.

He's put a huge amount of money into like reversing aging and anti senizence and all this kind of stuff. So like, he clearly is a guy who's obsessed with his own mortality, and like you're looking for evidence of that in his childhood, and he does tell this story. He told The New Yorker in twenty eleven that this was a quote very very disturbing day. So obviously this does stick in his mind. But I don't know that that makes the case that his dad is like cold because this I just don't see it from that anecdote.

You know.

You know.

Obviously that's one anecdote. We're talking about a whole childhood, So that doesn't mean that he was not cold. I just don't I feel like what we may get from the fact that this story fucks Peter up so much says less about his dad and more about like who Peter is as a person, because I think most of us have this experience and like don't grow up dedicated to conquering mortality, whereas kind of like, oh yeah, everything dies, all right, well, I better figure out something I'm going to do with my life, right yeah, yeah, you know, like gas station drugs. That was my That was my decision, which I think if Peter had gotten into that just by some of these trucker pills, Peter, you know, yeah, they'll keep you, they'll keep you alive forever, as well as HGH will. So anyway, Peter has never made peace with death, or what he calls the ideology of the inevitability of the death of every individual. I also love that the ideal. It's not an ideology, man, it's just a fact. That's like, that's like seeing some people who are like staying back from a cliff's edge on a windy day and be like, oh, you've fallen for the ideology of dying in a fall.

Obviously that's one anecdote. We're talking about a whole childhood, So that doesn't mean that he was not cold. I just don't I feel like what we may get from the fact that this story fucks Peter up so much says less about his dad and more about like who Peter is as a person, because I think most of us have this experience and like don't grow up dedicated to conquering mortality, whereas kind of like, oh yeah, everything dies, all right, well, I better figure out something I'm going to do with my life, right yeah, yeah, you know, like gas station drugs. That was my That was my decision, which I think if Peter had gotten into that just by some of these trucker pills, Peter, you know, yeah, they'll keep you, they'll keep you alive forever, as well as HGH will. So anyway, Peter has never made peace with death, or what he calls the ideology of the inevitability of the death of every individual. I also love that the ideal. It's not an ideology, man, it's just a fact. That's like, that's like seeing some people who are like staying back from a cliff's edge on a windy day and be like, oh, you've fallen for the ideology of dying in a fall.

Come on the ideal, man, the inevitability of the death of every individual.

Come on the ideal, man, the inevitability of the death of every individual.

Yeah, I think I've had conversations with anti seatbelt guys about like the ideology of safety of like a nanny state culture, and it's like, no, man, I just don't want to diet at car crash.

Yeah, I think I've had conversations with anti seatbelt guys about like the ideology of safety of like a nanny state culture, and it's like, no, man, I just don't want to diet at car crash.

This huge old libertarian right.

This huge old libertarian right.

Oh yeah, as all hell. Well, you see nowadays, I don't know if you'd call it that, but he definitely comes out of libertarianism.

Oh yeah, as all hell. Well, you see nowadays, I don't know if you'd call it that, but he definitely comes out of libertarianism.

Yeah, and so, and when I think of libertarians, I think of like people who never evolved past like second semester freshman dorm room, uh ideology, And that feels very much like the like the the the ideology of the inevitability of death feels very like third bong hit freshman year dorm room.

Yeah, and so, and when I think of libertarians, I think of like people who never evolved past like second semester freshman dorm room, uh ideology, And that feels very much like the like the the the ideology of the inevitability of death feels very like third bong hit freshman year dorm room.

Yeah, dude, yeah, yeah, I agree with that. You know what I will say for libertarians, I always have to give a little bit of pushback just because of where I come out there. You've got your two kinds, You've got your like dorm room. I'm gonna read fucking Murray Rothbard and basically become a fascist whenever anyone suggests I pay my fair share in taxes Libertarians, which Peter is no, no, no, My kind the kind that I respect are I'm not. I wouldn't say I'm there now, but I have I do have a degree of respect and love for Like after the big hurricane in North Carolina, you had like several dozen guys who owned their own helicopters and often built their own helicopters, who like flew in just because they're like they're like helicopter libertarians. I like my helicopter libertarians where it's like I just don't trust the States, so I bought my own helicopter a disaster rescue. Those guys are fine.

Yeah, dude, yeah, yeah, I agree with that. You know what I will say for libertarians, I always have to give a little bit of pushback just because of where I come out there. You've got your two kinds, You've got your like dorm room. I'm gonna read fucking Murray Rothbard and basically become a fascist whenever anyone suggests I pay my fair share in taxes Libertarians, which Peter is no, no, no, My kind the kind that I respect are I'm not. I wouldn't say I'm there now, but I have I do have a degree of respect and love for Like after the big hurricane in North Carolina, you had like several dozen guys who owned their own helicopters and often built their own helicopters, who like flew in just because they're like they're like helicopter libertarians. I like my helicopter libertarians where it's like I just don't trust the States, so I bought my own helicopter a disaster rescue. Those guys are fine.

Yeah, yeah, although are those the same guys that also were the militia that tried to interfere with.

Yeah, yeah, although are those the same guys that also were the militia that tried to interfere with.

Those guys were in trucks. Those guys were in trucks. That might be yet another different kind of libertarian Helicopterah, we're very very pro helicopter libertarian in this ass. Those guys are fine. So yeah, that's a Peter's like kind of inciting incident.

Those guys were in trucks. Those guys were in trucks. That might be yet another different kind of libertarian Helicopterah, we're very very pro helicopter libertarian in this ass. Those guys are fine. So yeah, that's a Peter's like kind of inciting incident.

Right.

Right.

If you're making the Peter Teal movie, you started with his dad explaining death to him while looking at this cowhide rug. Now, shortly after that conversation, his dad decides to move the family away from Cleveland, usually a good decision and live every engineer's dream, which is, of course helping South Africa build a uranium mind. You know what engineer doesn't want to live that? So the Teal family moves to South Africa kind of yeah, I mean they're technically in South Africa. Peter's parents send him to an expensive, whites only private school called Pridwin. According to the school's website, it was founded in nineteen twenty three as a non denominational school rooted in Christian ethics and values. Today, the Pridwood website prominently features numerous stock photos of non white kids. So it does seem like maybe things have been forced to move forward there. But when Peter went there, it would have taught racial separation as an obvious good and a necessity. Right this is we're talking South Africa in the seventies, right after Pridwen. Peter went to a German language public school. He was a good student. He always does well in school, but these are not happy years for him, at least his chafkin paints it quote. A picture from that era shows a sullen boy in shorts, knickers and a tie carrying an adult sized briefcase. A grade school classmate in Namibia, George erb recalled Teal as smart but withdrawt. He had that distinct, striking smart look about him, almost like he seemed bored. Rb said, we didn't really mingle a lot with Peter in school, though we always knew the miners' kids would not stay long in town. Now, as he noted here, I said that they moved to South Africa. They are, though actually not in what in South Africa. They were in Namibia, which a big chunk of Namibia is governed and run by South Africa. At this point, right at the time, a lot of what we call Namibia today was known to South Africans as South West Africa, and it was governed under a military occupation, as if it were essentially the little brother of the apartheid state. The whole reason that South Africa has a uranium mine comes down to environmental regulations in western nations. Around this period, some of the very earliest waves of uranium had been mined in places like the US and Australia. But pretty quickly, once it becomes clear that we're going to need a lot of uranium, it also becomes clear that like uranium mining is really bad for the environment, so we'd better do that a lot in Africa, right, like a big bit. Actually, King Leopold's old colony in the Cargo becomes a major source of uranium mining, and Namibia in this period becomes the fourth largest global producer of uranium. During the Cold War, when we are using up quite a lot of the stuff, so That's why South Africa is a big. Part of why South Africa is so hesitant to give up their occupation of Namibia is like, Namibia has a shitload of uranium and South Africa wants that for several reasons, none of them good. Now, the managing and engineering staff at the mine where Klaus worked was white. The workforce were largely migrants on one year contracts for white families. This was a good job. You had good access to medical care, you had nice houses. You're basically living in a company town that is built for the white employees of this mine. There's a country club there, there's quality schools. Things are a lot uglier for the contract workers who are being brought in to do a lot of the heavy lifting at the mine. Now, much of this ugliness came from the fact that South Africa was not allowed to be in Southwest Namibia. Right, They are not supposed to be occupying this chunk of Namibia. The UN had ordered them to leave in nineteen sixty six, but by the time the Teals moved into the country, South Africa had yet to move their troops out. This is like nineteen seventy to one or two, right, So they've overstayed their visa by quite a while. But you don't really need a visa if you have enough guns.

If you're making the Peter Teal movie, you started with his dad explaining death to him while looking at this cowhide rug. Now, shortly after that conversation, his dad decides to move the family away from Cleveland, usually a good decision and live every engineer's dream, which is, of course helping South Africa build a uranium mind. You know what engineer doesn't want to live that? So the Teal family moves to South Africa kind of yeah, I mean they're technically in South Africa. Peter's parents send him to an expensive, whites only private school called Pridwin. According to the school's website, it was founded in nineteen twenty three as a non denominational school rooted in Christian ethics and values. Today, the Pridwood website prominently features numerous stock photos of non white kids. So it does seem like maybe things have been forced to move forward there. But when Peter went there, it would have taught racial separation as an obvious good and a necessity. Right this is we're talking South Africa in the seventies, right after Pridwen. Peter went to a German language public school. He was a good student. He always does well in school, but these are not happy years for him, at least his chafkin paints it quote. A picture from that era shows a sullen boy in shorts, knickers and a tie carrying an adult sized briefcase. A grade school classmate in Namibia, George erb recalled Teal as smart but withdrawt. He had that distinct, striking smart look about him, almost like he seemed bored. Rb said, we didn't really mingle a lot with Peter in school, though we always knew the miners' kids would not stay long in town. Now, as he noted here, I said that they moved to South Africa. They are, though actually not in what in South Africa. They were in Namibia, which a big chunk of Namibia is governed and run by South Africa. At this point, right at the time, a lot of what we call Namibia today was known to South Africans as South West Africa, and it was governed under a military occupation, as if it were essentially the little brother of the apartheid state. The whole reason that South Africa has a uranium mine comes down to environmental regulations in western nations. Around this period, some of the very earliest waves of uranium had been mined in places like the US and Australia. But pretty quickly, once it becomes clear that we're going to need a lot of uranium, it also becomes clear that like uranium mining is really bad for the environment, so we'd better do that a lot in Africa, right, like a big bit. Actually, King Leopold's old colony in the Cargo becomes a major source of uranium mining, and Namibia in this period becomes the fourth largest global producer of uranium. During the Cold War, when we are using up quite a lot of the stuff, so That's why South Africa is a big. Part of why South Africa is so hesitant to give up their occupation of Namibia is like, Namibia has a shitload of uranium and South Africa wants that for several reasons, none of them good. Now, the managing and engineering staff at the mine where Klaus worked was white. The workforce were largely migrants on one year contracts for white families. This was a good job. You had good access to medical care, you had nice houses. You're basically living in a company town that is built for the white employees of this mine. There's a country club there, there's quality schools. Things are a lot uglier for the contract workers who are being brought in to do a lot of the heavy lifting at the mine. Now, much of this ugliness came from the fact that South Africa was not allowed to be in Southwest Namibia. Right, They are not supposed to be occupying this chunk of Namibia. The UN had ordered them to leave in nineteen sixty six, but by the time the Teals moved into the country, South Africa had yet to move their troops out. This is like nineteen seventy to one or two, right, So they've overstayed their visa by quite a while. But you don't really need a visa if you have enough guns.

Yeah, this whole thing is fucking grim man. Yeah, it's parteid uranium. Mind, just fucking grim.

Yeah, this whole thing is fucking grim man. Yeah, it's parteid uranium. Mind, just fucking grim.

Peter's childhood is in an apartheid uranium mine.

Peter's childhood is in an apartheid uranium mine.

Like I thought Elon Musk had liken uh kind of like super villain origin story with the emerald mine. But the uranium not really trumps.

Like I thought Elon Musk had liken uh kind of like super villain origin story with the emerald mine. But the uranium not really trumps.

Honestly, bro, I'll take an emerald mine over this any day in a fucking week. So in nineteen seventy three, the ICC, the International Criminal Court, upheld that you in ruling and said again South Africa, you've got to leave Namibia. This is not your country. What are you doing there, to which South Africa says, we are getting a lot of uranium and we're not going to leave. This leads to sanctions against the sale of minerals from mine and occupied Namibia, sanctions that are ignored by much of the West. And I'm going to just quote read about that via a quote I found on the website Mining Sea. The decree warned that anyone found extracting and selling minerals from Namibia would be held liable beneficiaries to Namibia's minerals, including Britain and the United States, except Sweden did not honor the decree when uranium production from Rossing would satisfy Britain's ten percent demand. So because uranium was so needed for this build up, basically a lot of the West was like, no, fuck, what the UN says, We're going to keep paying South Africa for their uranium because we really need it right tale as old as time now. The company that ran the mine where Klaus worked as a contractor was called Rio Tinto, and they had You're not going to be surprised to hear that this illegal uranium mine company has an evil history, but they have like a comically evil history.

Honestly, bro, I'll take an emerald mine over this any day in a fucking week. So in nineteen seventy three, the ICC, the International Criminal Court, upheld that you in ruling and said again South Africa, you've got to leave Namibia. This is not your country. What are you doing there, to which South Africa says, we are getting a lot of uranium and we're not going to leave. This leads to sanctions against the sale of minerals from mine and occupied Namibia, sanctions that are ignored by much of the West. And I'm going to just quote read about that via a quote I found on the website Mining Sea. The decree warned that anyone found extracting and selling minerals from Namibia would be held liable beneficiaries to Namibia's minerals, including Britain and the United States, except Sweden did not honor the decree when uranium production from Rossing would satisfy Britain's ten percent demand. So because uranium was so needed for this build up, basically a lot of the West was like, no, fuck, what the UN says, We're going to keep paying South Africa for their uranium because we really need it right tale as old as time now. The company that ran the mine where Klaus worked as a contractor was called Rio Tinto, and they had You're not going to be surprised to hear that this illegal uranium mine company has an evil history, but they have like a comically evil history.

I feel like I've heard a name before.

I feel like I've heard a name before.

Oh yeah, oh yeah. So in the late nineteen thirties, Rio Tino had called on Francisco Franco to use his soldiers to crush left wing miners protesting against bad working conditions in Spain. The head of the company at the time Sir auckland Getty's, which is such an evil mine owner's name, What an amazing evil Sir auckland Getty's. Jesus Getty's brag that quote miners found guilty of trouble making our quote martialed and shot big fan of Franco the leaders of Rio Tento. As another interesting side note, Noah, Rio Tinto was also a major source of raw materials for the Nazi rearmament campaign. These are the guys that build the Wehrmacht back up into fighting shape. Thank God. You know where would we be without Rio Tinto.

Oh yeah, oh yeah. So in the late nineteen thirties, Rio Tino had called on Francisco Franco to use his soldiers to crush left wing miners protesting against bad working conditions in Spain. The head of the company at the time Sir auckland Getty's, which is such an evil mine owner's name, What an amazing evil Sir auckland Getty's. Jesus Getty's brag that quote miners found guilty of trouble making our quote martialed and shot big fan of Franco the leaders of Rio Tento. As another interesting side note, Noah, Rio Tinto was also a major source of raw materials for the Nazi rearmament campaign. These are the guys that build the Wehrmacht back up into fighting shape. Thank God. You know where would we be without Rio Tinto.

God?

God?

Yes, Now, by the early seventies there were no more Nazis to arms, so Rio said about finding their next best equivalent, which is of course s apartheid South Africa. Right now, since they're running an illegal uranium mine and occupied Namibia, they're like, why not go full fascist? And they decide to operate their facilities in Namibia like a concentration camp. And I'm going to quote from an article by the London Mining Network. Here, black workers constructing the Rossing uranium mine lived in appalling conditions in temporary camps, which researchers found akin to slavery. By akin to slavery, it means that actually leaving work for any meaning, but being for any reason, but being dismissed by your manager was a crime, workers who misplaced or forgot their ID badge could be jailed. Now, the fact that someone might get hired to consult at such a mind doesn't imply that they were involved with setting up or executing any of these policies, but it does suggest that one was broadly fine with them. As Max Chafkin writes, a contract laborer on the Construs Auction project, the project Klaus's company was helping to oversee, who said workers had not been told they were building a uranium mine and were thus unaware of the risks of radiation. The only clue had been that white employees would hand out wages from behind glass, seemingly trying to avoid contamination themselves. The report mentioned workers dying like flies in nineteen seventy six while the mine was under construction.

Yes, Now, by the early seventies there were no more Nazis to arms, so Rio said about finding their next best equivalent, which is of course s apartheid South Africa. Right now, since they're running an illegal uranium mine and occupied Namibia, they're like, why not go full fascist? And they decide to operate their facilities in Namibia like a concentration camp. And I'm going to quote from an article by the London Mining Network. Here, black workers constructing the Rossing uranium mine lived in appalling conditions in temporary camps, which researchers found akin to slavery. By akin to slavery, it means that actually leaving work for any meaning, but being for any reason, but being dismissed by your manager was a crime, workers who misplaced or forgot their ID badge could be jailed. Now, the fact that someone might get hired to consult at such a mind doesn't imply that they were involved with setting up or executing any of these policies, but it does suggest that one was broadly fine with them. As Max Chafkin writes, a contract laborer on the Construs Auction project, the project Klaus's company was helping to oversee, who said workers had not been told they were building a uranium mine and were thus unaware of the risks of radiation. The only clue had been that white employees would hand out wages from behind glass, seemingly trying to avoid contamination themselves. The report mentioned workers dying like flies in nineteen seventy six while the mine was under construction.

So this is so bad.

So this is so bad.

This is pretty evil.

This is pretty evil.

To illegal apartheid uranium mining concentration camp.

To illegal apartheid uranium mining concentration camp.

Yeah, yeah, that's Peter's dad's job and some of his earliest memories as a kid.

Yeah, yeah, that's Peter's dad's job and some of his earliest memories as a kid.

And he's disturbed by like Bessie the coin.

And he's disturbed by like Bessie the coin.

What, Peter, If you want to end death, the first step might be ending illegal uranium mines. If you just care about death as a concept.

What, Peter, If you want to end death, the first step might be ending illegal uranium mines. If you just care about death as a concept.

I cannot believe how cartoonish is.

I cannot believe how cartoonish is.

It's so funny. It's like the funniest bad story he could have just being the guy he is coming from. This is a background like a lot of these guys, like Elon Musk, there's this period of time in musks backstories like, oh, well, he is this kid who's moved around about. His family sucks, his dad's this abusive monster. He's bullied as a kid. It's a really sad like I can see how he you know, there's a I can see how a couple of different kinds of kid could have come out of this, some of them who would have been a lot better than Musk was right, Maybe he wasn't always destined to be the kind of guy he is. With Teal, you're like, oh, yeah, no, this is this childhood. Was Taylor made to produce Peter Teal?

It's so funny. It's like the funniest bad story he could have just being the guy he is coming from. This is a background like a lot of these guys, like Elon Musk, there's this period of time in musks backstories like, oh, well, he is this kid who's moved around about. His family sucks, his dad's this abusive monster. He's bullied as a kid. It's a really sad like I can see how he you know, there's a I can see how a couple of different kinds of kid could have come out of this, some of them who would have been a lot better than Musk was right, Maybe he wasn't always destined to be the kind of guy he is. With Teal, you're like, oh, yeah, no, this is this childhood. Was Taylor made to produce Peter Teal?

Yeah, totally.

Yeah, totally.

You know what else was Taylor made to produce Peter Tel Noah, Yeah. The sponsors of our show are attempting to breed clones of Peter Teel in a tank. It's kind of like that the fourth Alien movie, Alien Resurrection, down to the fact that they are mixing Peter Teal's jeans with Sigourney we So let's see what happens everybody, you know, We'll see what happens. We're back and in the time that we were off air, the Peter Teel Sigourney Weaver clones escaped containment in our in our our our sponsors orbital base. Things do not seem to be going well. Sorry, air, that was probably predictable. Anyway, We'll keep you updated on the situation. So we're talking about uranium mining in South Africa, which is getting South Africa in trouble. And it's one of those things where if it was if it had just been about the money South Africa could make exporting uranium, it probably wouldn't have been worthwhile to piss off the whole international community to keep this mine open. But that's not the only reason why South Africa wants the uranium mine. A big part of why they insisted on keeping this thing operational was that they are an unpopular apartheid government that is in the process of becoming a global pariah. They are dealing with something of an extential of an existential pr crisis because of all of like the racism and violence that the world is watching them do, and the white rulers of the country decided the best way for them to gain long term security for the regime was to get nuclear weapons, even if they had to break international law to do so. Right, And South Africa does eventually construct a handful of very illegal nukes, right. They are not supposed to have these internationally, No one's supposed to be allowed to be arming themselves with new nukes. South Africa makes their nukes and it does not, as you may be aware, keep the apartheid regime in power. You know, the government does in fact fall and in a kind of unique historical case, before the government hands over power to the ANC which is, you know, the party that over as apartheid goes out, they disassemble all of their nuclear weapons. To this day, this makes South Africa the only nation to have ever made nuclear weapons and given them up voluntarily. Obviously Ukraine receive had nuclear weapons when the USSR crumbled and gave those up. But South Africa actually like makes their own nuclear weapons independently and then disassembles them and stops being a nuclear power. And that's a unique thing in history. Although they do it, I think mainly for reasons of racism.

You know what else was Taylor made to produce Peter Tel Noah, Yeah. The sponsors of our show are attempting to breed clones of Peter Teel in a tank. It's kind of like that the fourth Alien movie, Alien Resurrection, down to the fact that they are mixing Peter Teal's jeans with Sigourney we So let's see what happens everybody, you know, We'll see what happens. We're back and in the time that we were off air, the Peter Teel Sigourney Weaver clones escaped containment in our in our our our sponsors orbital base. Things do not seem to be going well. Sorry, air, that was probably predictable. Anyway, We'll keep you updated on the situation. So we're talking about uranium mining in South Africa, which is getting South Africa in trouble. And it's one of those things where if it was if it had just been about the money South Africa could make exporting uranium, it probably wouldn't have been worthwhile to piss off the whole international community to keep this mine open. But that's not the only reason why South Africa wants the uranium mine. A big part of why they insisted on keeping this thing operational was that they are an unpopular apartheid government that is in the process of becoming a global pariah. They are dealing with something of an extential of an existential pr crisis because of all of like the racism and violence that the world is watching them do, and the white rulers of the country decided the best way for them to gain long term security for the regime was to get nuclear weapons, even if they had to break international law to do so. Right, And South Africa does eventually construct a handful of very illegal nukes, right. They are not supposed to have these internationally, No one's supposed to be allowed to be arming themselves with new nukes. South Africa makes their nukes and it does not, as you may be aware, keep the apartheid regime in power. You know, the government does in fact fall and in a kind of unique historical case, before the government hands over power to the ANC which is, you know, the party that over as apartheid goes out, they disassemble all of their nuclear weapons. To this day, this makes South Africa the only nation to have ever made nuclear weapons and given them up voluntarily. Obviously Ukraine receive had nuclear weapons when the USSR crumbled and gave those up. But South Africa actually like makes their own nuclear weapons independently and then disassembles them and stops being a nuclear power. And that's a unique thing in history. Although they do it, I think mainly for reasons of racism.

It's still pretty wild. I've never heard that before.

It's still pretty wild. I've never heard that before.

Yeah, yeah, it's an interesting story. So while Peter's dad was I don't know how you again, how you want to parse out his complicity here, but he is adjacent to some very bad things.

Yeah, yeah, it's an interesting story. So while Peter's dad was I don't know how you again, how you want to parse out his complicity here, but he is adjacent to some very bad things.

Right.

Right.

While his dad's doing this, Peter himself gets very little that seems to be good from his two and a half three years in Africa. He mostly claims to have played alone a lot near the family house. He started to develop a habit for comp heative chess, and he became a voracious leader less than three years. After less than three years away, the family decides they just haven't had enough Cleveland and they move back. Yeah. Then as soon as they're back in Cleveland, they're like, oh shit, Cleveland is still not a great place to live. The Rivers have not stopped being on fire. So they move one last time to the Bay Area. Their specific final residence is Foster City, which is just northwest of San Jose and south of San Francisco. Proper, it's a fairly affluent town and in the late nineteen seventies, Teals family seems like they probably would have qualified as upper middle class, right, and this is what you tend to see with the first and second generation of tech industry giants. Guys like Gates and Jobs all come from or move to similar parts of California, and they're all kind of at a similar level of family affluence.

While his dad's doing this, Peter himself gets very little that seems to be good from his two and a half three years in Africa. He mostly claims to have played alone a lot near the family house. He started to develop a habit for comp heative chess, and he became a voracious leader less than three years. After less than three years away, the family decides they just haven't had enough Cleveland and they move back. Yeah. Then as soon as they're back in Cleveland, they're like, oh shit, Cleveland is still not a great place to live. The Rivers have not stopped being on fire. So they move one last time to the Bay Area. Their specific final residence is Foster City, which is just northwest of San Jose and south of San Francisco. Proper, it's a fairly affluent town and in the late nineteen seventies, Teals family seems like they probably would have qualified as upper middle class, right, and this is what you tend to see with the first and second generation of tech industry giants. Guys like Gates and Jobs all come from or move to similar parts of California, and they're all kind of at a similar level of family affluence.

Right.

Right.

Their parents are not like rich, they're not going to inherit generational wealth, but their parents have enough money to shower their kids with attention and educational opportunities that really weren't available before. And in part because of some of the decisions guys like this make aren't going to be available after, you know, lease not do as many kids now. In terms of the parenting situation, because Gates Bill Gates's parents doting absolutely like obsessed with his development and health. Steve's parents again doting like really really like caring parents who were very much focused on their child doing well. It is unclear to me how much attention Peter gets. This is kind of an open questions. It's left as an open question. In Chafkin's book, Peter does not seem to embrace like the claims that his parents were very strict or you know, fanatical conservatives, but we also get very little of them in his stories, right, which is very different from like, Steve Jobs told a lot of stories about his parents, right, and so did Gates. So I don't really know if this is a case of, you know, he didn't want to say much about his parents, that this is an area of insecurity form, or if it's just he's not a guy who's super talkative about his background, which he definitely isn't you know. That may just explain it, But it does seem that his parents are not kind of central to his feelings or ambitions in the same way that they really seem to have been for a lot of other like tech industry icons that came up in a similar place in period. We do know as a child, Peter Teel is a massive nerd. He is one of the first wave of like really big nerds, and he's particularly a fantasy nerd for his kind of fantasy and sci fi. He reads The Lord of the Rings as a little kid, he falls in love with Tolkien. He would later claim that he memorized the Lord of the Rings trilogy, which I suspect is probably overstating things. That's a lot to memorize, Yeah, yeah, three thousand pages. Yeah, that's that might be a little much. I don't know how much I believe that, but I just.

Their parents are not like rich, they're not going to inherit generational wealth, but their parents have enough money to shower their kids with attention and educational opportunities that really weren't available before. And in part because of some of the decisions guys like this make aren't going to be available after, you know, lease not do as many kids now. In terms of the parenting situation, because Gates Bill Gates's parents doting absolutely like obsessed with his development and health. Steve's parents again doting like really really like caring parents who were very much focused on their child doing well. It is unclear to me how much attention Peter gets. This is kind of an open questions. It's left as an open question. In Chafkin's book, Peter does not seem to embrace like the claims that his parents were very strict or you know, fanatical conservatives, but we also get very little of them in his stories, right, which is very different from like, Steve Jobs told a lot of stories about his parents, right, and so did Gates. So I don't really know if this is a case of, you know, he didn't want to say much about his parents, that this is an area of insecurity form, or if it's just he's not a guy who's super talkative about his background, which he definitely isn't you know. That may just explain it, But it does seem that his parents are not kind of central to his feelings or ambitions in the same way that they really seem to have been for a lot of other like tech industry icons that came up in a similar place in period. We do know as a child, Peter Teel is a massive nerd. He is one of the first wave of like really big nerds, and he's particularly a fantasy nerd for his kind of fantasy and sci fi. He reads The Lord of the Rings as a little kid, he falls in love with Tolkien. He would later claim that he memorized the Lord of the Rings trilogy, which I suspect is probably overstating things. That's a lot to memorize, Yeah, yeah, three thousand pages. Yeah, that's that might be a little much. I don't know how much I believe that, but I just.

Remember the English or the Yet.

Remember the English or the Yet.

Did he have the Elvish down? Does he know the Black speech by heart?

Did he have the Elvish down? Does he know the Black speech by heart?

Speaks at all? Maybe folks so much? Yeah?

Speaks at all? Maybe folks so much? Yeah?

Yeah, the very few journalists know the Black speech. As you might imagine from a kid who at least probably meant memorized passages from the Lord of the Rings, Peter gets bullied a lot, right, not super surprising from this kid. He's also very small and skinny, and according to one peer, he gets pushed around a lot as a little kid. This may have had something to do with what seems to have been a flair for escapism. In addition to loving Tolkien, Peter is one of the very first Dungeons and Dragons players, right, He and his because D and D has just come out while he is a kid, and he is he and his friends are playing it while it is very new. They they played every single weekend, and this is This may have caused a degree of life a conflict with his parents, because there are at least some stories that his parents they couldn't play, He couldn't play at his house because his parents, being very strict Christians, thought that D and D was evil. Again, this is one of those things. Is that totally accurate? I don't know. He definitely played a lot of D and D. It may have been a kind of thing that he had to skirt around his family because it is. And there's this thing that you get from Peter that everyone will say about him, which is that like he's a habitual contrarian. Whatever people are doing, he has to be doing the opposite. There's this big moral panic against dungeons and dragons at the time. It very much fits in with that that he would want to be playing this game that a lot of people in his life and like maybe even his parents consider to be evil. That is very like fitting with the guy Peter Teel is like whatever the people around him are saying is bad, That's what Peter's going to want to do, right. Yeah. Outside of that, his main hobby seems to have been Chess's extremely good at this. He was generally ranked number one by his school chess club. He plays a lot of speed chess. He probably could have been a professional chess guy, but he has some There's some quotes he makes later where he's like, I had to choose between chess and everything else in life, Right, I just get too obsessed with it. George Packer, writing for The New Yorker, summarizes his chest kit was decorated with a sticker carrying the motto born to Win. On the rare occasions when he lost in college, he swept the pieces off the board. He would say, show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser. So maybe not I guy you want to play with, right, Jesus Christ. Yeah, A little bit of a dick. This is the kind of guy who I don't know. Again, I'm a big believer in the fact that everyone who's proud of their chess performance should get into the real game of skill. Warhammer forty thousand fish shows your real skill, Peter paint some fucking orcs?

Yeah, the very few journalists know the Black speech. As you might imagine from a kid who at least probably meant memorized passages from the Lord of the Rings, Peter gets bullied a lot, right, not super surprising from this kid. He's also very small and skinny, and according to one peer, he gets pushed around a lot as a little kid. This may have had something to do with what seems to have been a flair for escapism. In addition to loving Tolkien, Peter is one of the very first Dungeons and Dragons players, right, He and his because D and D has just come out while he is a kid, and he is he and his friends are playing it while it is very new. They they played every single weekend, and this is This may have caused a degree of life a conflict with his parents, because there are at least some stories that his parents they couldn't play, He couldn't play at his house because his parents, being very strict Christians, thought that D and D was evil. Again, this is one of those things. Is that totally accurate? I don't know. He definitely played a lot of D and D. It may have been a kind of thing that he had to skirt around his family because it is. And there's this thing that you get from Peter that everyone will say about him, which is that like he's a habitual contrarian. Whatever people are doing, he has to be doing the opposite. There's this big moral panic against dungeons and dragons at the time. It very much fits in with that that he would want to be playing this game that a lot of people in his life and like maybe even his parents consider to be evil. That is very like fitting with the guy Peter Teel is like whatever the people around him are saying is bad, That's what Peter's going to want to do, right. Yeah. Outside of that, his main hobby seems to have been Chess's extremely good at this. He was generally ranked number one by his school chess club. He plays a lot of speed chess. He probably could have been a professional chess guy, but he has some There's some quotes he makes later where he's like, I had to choose between chess and everything else in life, Right, I just get too obsessed with it. George Packer, writing for The New Yorker, summarizes his chest kit was decorated with a sticker carrying the motto born to Win. On the rare occasions when he lost in college, he swept the pieces off the board. He would say, show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser. So maybe not I guy you want to play with, right, Jesus Christ. Yeah, A little bit of a dick. This is the kind of guy who I don't know. Again, I'm a big believer in the fact that everyone who's proud of their chess performance should get into the real game of skill. Warhammer forty thousand fish shows your real skill, Peter paint some fucking orcs?

Do you have? Born to Win?

Do you have? Born to Win?

I haven't actually tattooed. You can't see it. The camera blots out my tattoos. But I've got like one of those throat tattoos. I got a sticking poke when I was in prison that just says born to Win. And it's got a picture of an orc on it. Yeah, h correct, Yeah, yeah, it's good. It really makes me popular at the gaming store with the fourteen year olds. So Chaefkin has my favorite story of Peter and his chess phase because it is the one that makes me actually kind of hopeful that we can beat this guy eventually. Quote. Once at a tournament, he was playing a scrimmage match for fun in between games and seemed to be only half paying attention. His opponent was inexperienced and not aware of what was happening, put Peter in check. Then he realized, to both of their surprise that it was checkmate. Peter became visibly distraught and was unable to regain his composure for the rest of the tournament and lost the rest of the matches he played. A defeat, even a meaningless one was too much to handle. Yeah, okay, that's been a little hopeful. There a little bit of motivation for you kids.

I haven't actually tattooed. You can't see it. The camera blots out my tattoos. But I've got like one of those throat tattoos. I got a sticking poke when I was in prison that just says born to Win. And it's got a picture of an orc on it. Yeah, h correct, Yeah, yeah, it's good. It really makes me popular at the gaming store with the fourteen year olds. So Chaefkin has my favorite story of Peter and his chess phase because it is the one that makes me actually kind of hopeful that we can beat this guy eventually. Quote. Once at a tournament, he was playing a scrimmage match for fun in between games and seemed to be only half paying attention. His opponent was inexperienced and not aware of what was happening, put Peter in check. Then he realized, to both of their surprise that it was checkmate. Peter became visibly distraught and was unable to regain his composure for the rest of the tournament and lost the rest of the matches he played. A defeat, even a meaningless one was too much to handle. Yeah, okay, that's been a little hopeful. There a little bit of motivation for you kids.

Yeah yeah, maybe wasn't so born to win.

Yeah yeah, maybe wasn't so born to win.

Yeah. So among the nerds, Peter was king. He was the most academically gifted of his friends, and I suspect was the best at doing things like cooking up overpowered characters in Dungeons and Dragons. He had a fantastic memory, and he expounded upon different short stories and novels by guys like Asimov and Clark with a faculty that would have embarrassed most adults. He's the kind of guy who can like quote passages of stories he likes from memory. One of Peter's nerdy peers said that he and others were quote in awe of Teal, but added, I don't know that he had any close friends. So he's got like some peers, but maybe not a lot of people that he like actually entrusts any pieces of himself too in any meaningful way. Right, Again, a lonely person in a lot of ways. Peter is genuinely described by the kids he spent time around the way wizards were in Peter's favorite fantasy novels as this like mysterious figure. He can do great and terrifying things, but who's also fundamentally separate from all of the people around him.

Yeah. So among the nerds, Peter was king. He was the most academically gifted of his friends, and I suspect was the best at doing things like cooking up overpowered characters in Dungeons and Dragons. He had a fantastic memory, and he expounded upon different short stories and novels by guys like Asimov and Clark with a faculty that would have embarrassed most adults. He's the kind of guy who can like quote passages of stories he likes from memory. One of Peter's nerdy peers said that he and others were quote in awe of Teal, but added, I don't know that he had any close friends. So he's got like some peers, but maybe not a lot of people that he like actually entrusts any pieces of himself too in any meaningful way. Right, Again, a lonely person in a lot of ways. Peter is genuinely described by the kids he spent time around the way wizards were in Peter's favorite fantasy novels as this like mysterious figure. He can do great and terrifying things, but who's also fundamentally separate from all of the people around him.

Right, that's your characterization. You're calling him a wizard, or he called himself a wizard.

Right, that's your characterization. You're calling him a wizard, or he called himself a wizard.

No, no, no, that's just kind of my description based on what other kids said about Peter, right that he's like, we're in awe of him. He could do all these amazing things, but we didn't really understand him. He seemed to be like someone who was fundamentally separate. It's kind of like the way Gandolf is written in The Lord of the Rings, Right, Wizards are these like mysterious and kind of frightening figures that you can't ever really get that, Like they're kind of a knowable in certain senses. Right, That's just kind of the way other kids talked about.

No, no, no, that's just kind of my description based on what other kids said about Peter, right that he's like, we're in awe of him. He could do all these amazing things, but we didn't really understand him. He seemed to be like someone who was fundamentally separate. It's kind of like the way Gandolf is written in The Lord of the Rings, Right, Wizards are these like mysterious and kind of frightening figures that you can't ever really get that, Like they're kind of a knowable in certain senses. Right, That's just kind of the way other kids talked about.

Peter seems more Seramone than Gandolph.

Peter seems more Seramone than Gandolph.

He's definitely I mean, he's going to build a company named Palette here, so yeah, that's probably a fair fair note.

He's definitely I mean, he's going to build a company named Palette here, so yeah, that's probably a fair fair note.

No.

No.

As he became a teenager, the bullying changed from physical violence to sillier shit that was also calculated to make him feel unwelcome and othered. One example would be that a group of kids frequently stole for sale signs from around the neighborhood and set them up on Peter's lawn, and then they would harass them about it the next day school, being like, hey, when are you moving right, and like that actually legitimately does suck, Peter, if you're listening, that's like a really shitty thing this kids did to you. I'm sorry, that's a bummer, you know, you can like that's that's kind of like probably more devastating than the physical violence like people stealing lawn signs to like make it clear we want you and your family to leave. Like, yeah, I can see, I can see how that feeds into a guy becoming like Peter is. By the time the high school years come around, You've got this kind of misanthropic genius who spends his free time escaping reality and competing, you know, in order to show everyone how smart he is, right when he's The only times he wants to engage with a people is when he can beat them in a contest of wits. Otherwise he likes to kind of focus on his fantasy worlds. One friend described his general attitude as fuck you world. Now. I think we all knew or were to some degree, kids like that. Right, this is going to sound very familiar, like as a kid who grew up like bullied and nerdy. Aspects of this are familiar to me.

As he became a teenager, the bullying changed from physical violence to sillier shit that was also calculated to make him feel unwelcome and othered. One example would be that a group of kids frequently stole for sale signs from around the neighborhood and set them up on Peter's lawn, and then they would harass them about it the next day school, being like, hey, when are you moving right, and like that actually legitimately does suck, Peter, if you're listening, that's like a really shitty thing this kids did to you. I'm sorry, that's a bummer, you know, you can like that's that's kind of like probably more devastating than the physical violence like people stealing lawn signs to like make it clear we want you and your family to leave. Like, yeah, I can see, I can see how that feeds into a guy becoming like Peter is. By the time the high school years come around, You've got this kind of misanthropic genius who spends his free time escaping reality and competing, you know, in order to show everyone how smart he is, right when he's The only times he wants to engage with a people is when he can beat them in a contest of wits. Otherwise he likes to kind of focus on his fantasy worlds. One friend described his general attitude as fuck you world. Now. I think we all knew or were to some degree, kids like that. Right, this is going to sound very familiar, like as a kid who grew up like bullied and nerdy. Aspects of this are familiar to me.

Sure.

Sure.

Peter also, it's interesting maintains this attitude while managing to be the best student in his school. Right, he is going to be the valedictorian. He's an exceptional student academically, so he has both this kind of anger at normal kids and the world around him, and also this attitude that's reinforced by the social structures of his world, that like he's better than everyone else in an important way. Now, his classmates, interviewed by Chaefgins, seem to suggest that Peter and kind of everyone at their school are obsessed with getting like this. This is a school where the kids, you know, their parents are high achievers. Everyone is obsessed with getting into good colleges. This was seen as the past of success at the time, and Peter's parents, if they were strict, were probably pushing him hard to get the best grades possible so that he could get into the best school. Right. This is and this is going to be important later he grows up being told by all the authority figures in his life what matters most is getting into a good college. Right That is like the number one priority you have to have as a kid. I don't know when I went to school that was the priority that was really rammed home to me by my parents. So I don't have trouble believing that this is the case for Peter, and it's He's going to get very angry at this later in his life. This is going to be a major motivating factor in his life the idea that like he was forced to value higher education, which he fundamentally thinks is not a valuable thing in the same way that his parents did, and he's really angry about it. He's kind of never forgiven the concept of academia for this. He graduates in eighty five as the valedictorian of San Mateo High. During the later years in public school, he had moved on from Tolkien and Asimov to Einrand, And you know, this kind of helps nurse the strain of vigorous anti communist sentiment that would have you know, this would have been a part of his upbringing. Anyway, We're talking like Silicon Valley in the seventies. You know, it's a lot of defense industry stuff is out there. It is not a radical left hotbed. So he probably didn't need the Iron Rand to make him into an anti communist, but this definitely makes him into like a libertarian anti communist. During one article in twenty eleven, he described his ideology as so strictly libertarian that for a time he was against all government spending, which he's not now he's very supportive of like the government spending money to research how rich people can live longer. So that's that's good. It's nice to see that people can grow.