Joy isn’t optional for leaders, it’s what keeps you connected to the story that makes your work matter.

In this episode, Andy sits down with Kate Bowler to explore why joy isn’t a distraction from leadership—it’s what sustains it. Joy doesn’t come from solving every problem or achieving every goal. Instead, it reconnects leaders to the deeper story behind their work—the reason it matters in the first place.

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Here's what they cover in this episode:

• The difference between happiness and joy and why it matters (04:30)
• Why joy shows up in hard moments—not just easy ones (06:40)
• Burnout isn’t just exhaustion—it’s losing the story (10:45)
• How busyness crowds out joy (and what to do about it) (11:30) 
• Can you actually practice joy? (14:30)
• Why leaders need joy to stay connected to purpose (17:10)
• Three ways to become more open to joy: do, love, hope (20:45)
• The danger of worshiping productivity (22:00)
• Toxic positivity vs. honest joy (25:00)

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Recognized as one of Forbes' 6 Leadership Podcasts To Listen To In 2024 and one of the Best Leadership Podcasts To Stay in the Know for CEOs, according to Industry Leaders Magazine.

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