And that's what you really missed with Jenna and Kevin and I Heart Radio podcast and welcome back to and that's what you really missed Part two with the one and only Ryan Murphy. We know we left you on a cliffhanger last week when Bryan dropped that little nugget that when they created Will Schuster, they apparently were interested in Justin timber Like playing the part. So why don't we we gotta go back. We gotta go back and check check out what he's deep on that one. I don't even think justin Timberloke knows this, but there was like a one week window and talking to his people where I thought maybe he was interested, but maybe that meant we interested in having a script dropped off at his front door. I don't remember. I wasn't as fastile at the Star casting back then, but that was our idea for Mr Shoe was justin Timberlike. And then it was very quickly like um yeah, just in his book for tours through Ton threeteen or something. It's like okay, no, justin Timberlake. So when that happened, I was like, well, let's just let's just find everyone and the only person that we just straight out offered it to. Was We kept talking about a Jane Lynch type of Jane Lynch type, and finally I was like, let's just offer it to Jane. She's probably gonna say no, um, but to my shock and thrill, she said yes instantly. So she was the only real name. And then we just had this magical period where for six months we we um went all around the country and anybody who wanted to audition could send in tapes, and we looked at everybody and everybody and everything, and you know, and then had narrowed it down to for each of the parts, three roles. And then we brought all of those actors, and I believe there were fifty actors in total were brought to l A. And you guys remember walking into these hideous, fluorescently lit rooms with like all of these people that you staring at you with notepads with pins ready to judge. It was. It was the most like cliche we're gonna get suits. It was. They were actually all in black suits, sitting in this teared room staring at you with no expression. And I had no power back then, like I was, I I really was just like a voice in the Wilderness. But there was a moment in the casting of that show where I kind of would be the first person to speak. I would make sure like I would would talk first, and in both of your cases, I was I remember saying, it's Jenna, or I don't want to do it, it's Kevin, it's Kevin, or I can't go on. I would say something like that, because what are they going to say? Um? And you know, there were other people who were considered for for your parts, and I don't really like to talk about that, but many of them I've worked with. You know. The weird thing about it is like you meet the people when you get to that far in a casting process. People don't know, like you meet the person that you're up again, you're sitting in the room with you're against yourself, Like, yes, that was written for him based on his he did a tremendous audition. Yeah, I mean it was interesting, Like I do remember that I would be not telling the truth if I didn't tell you, Like, you know, when I was working with Johnny Groth and Pretty Handsome, that's when I first met Leah and so Jonathan and I were filming Pretty Handsome and Leah came out to visit Jonathan, and you know, that was also a period in time where the ideal look were people who are on like, you know, quote unquote, look, we're on c W shows totally, And I remember Leah saying like, oh my god, I can't even get an audition on a goddamn c W show, Like it's really gonna be hard for me, because you know, so I remember thinking like, oh, she'd be a really good Rachel and I in the writing. I think we would all start to I don't think Brad and Ian new Lea then, but I would kind of right in things Lee and I had spoken about. So she kind of always was the front writer for that part. Like you know, I do remember her auditioning and me sneaking her sides I think really early, so she was very familiar with what she was doing and Kevin Riley saying, well, thank god we've found that actress because it almost looks like it was written for her, and I was like, kind of was, but it was. It was, Um, it was really really really fun to do the casting of that part and for all of your parts, and um, and I was directing it too, so I kind of was thinking like, well, you know, and I had worked with Amber. Amber was um little baby Amber came in, was on my delta, broke failed pilot another thing. And I always say that from every tragedy comes re birth. But I never forgot Amber and how great she was. And I think we kind of thought of Mercedes for Amber, to be quite honest, but um, there were other contenders, but just you know. But it was also like one of those things that once you guys got into the room and read and you don't know this as actors because again, no one ever tells you and sit you down and looks you in the eye and said, you know what, you were phenomenal. That was the best moment I think in many of your auditioning lives, because you just walked in and and you nailed it. And also even if you didn't kind of get some things right, it was sort of like, well, that's the person I want to hang out with. That's the essence of that character. The spirit of who you all were as young people was the thing that I'm like, well, I want to I want to showcase that. I want to showcase and of course you know the great Irony Kevin is you were the big dancer and the cast and we put you in a wheelchair. So well, the show was made today. You couldn't cast me anyway, No, we couldn't. And that's another interesting thing to think about, and that I talked about, like that would not have happened. There were many things that would not have happened, but um, it was. It was a really magical, protected experience that was about um talent and the love of talent and the love of actors and wow. And also like you guys had to read two scenes and sing a song as I recall, and Kevin, I recall that your song was let it be am I wrong, And so you and I used to have that joke, right, just be like Kevin, just let it be bad. You just walk up out of nowhere and I'd like this, let it be Kevin, But you were just so But also what so cute is everybody was really nervous and it was hard. And what was it like when you guys got the call? Who called you? Guys? Did I call? You know? It was my age, my manager? Yeah, Oh that's right. I wasn't allowed to because that was corporate policy where the casting person had to call the agent, Yeah, because you remember you came in. Are you going to tell yeah, well you came in, so I had already been in two days before. For it was the network. What was first studio network studio was first network, so I had a studio and then by network, you had flown all the people in from New York that we were testing with or against. And then that's when Jenna was there, had already met Chris, and you stuck your head in the room and I had never tested for anything, and I was shocked. I had made it to the fourth audition. And I have terrible nerves, especially one auditioning, and you stuck your head in the room and you go hi. Everyone, You're like hi, and you're like a nervous, dumping nervous and you are and I remember you shut the door and you it was sort of like popping an inflated balloon because you released like the tension and we all start of laughing like he's nervous, Like are you kidding me? Like we have no his show is getting made, but it was I was like, that's very so nice of him to come in here and acknowledge that, like they also have to pick someone and they're also nervous about finding the right people. It's like, all right, we have here everyone, like just id I kind of instinctively knew, like maybe in the back of my lizard brain, like this was my chance. This this show was my shot. And I've never prepared or worked harder than anything. And then in the preparation of directing that pilot, like pilots phenomenal. I watched it yesterday. It is hold up, It's very good from every detail. It's like, you're just so it worked hard. Thank you. I mean I I of making it, and it was like it was such a wonderful experience. We made it in the fall, it was beautiful weather, I think, you know, I remember shooting on Halloween, right around Matt Morrison's birthday. That was the day that was the end, and it was just so fun. I remember, and I was, you know, it was in my head. And nobody had ever directed in our world or made a musical. So the you know, the the Andrew Mitchell and I um and Chris Baffa who was doing the who was our DP? Like we were trying to figure out how do you what is the language of making a musical? And like we kind of were I had a very strong sense of what I wanted to do, but it was just joy. It was really fun. And and then Jenny, you had asked me about the casting of the other the other Yes, you know, the guest star cast. Like, I'm trying to even think how that star did. Um. Who was our first celebrity, Kristen Channa with that was written for her? Um. I loved her. Um, I mean everybody from like Stay Moos you know who we loved too, I mean Gwyn. I mean I would imagine that a lot of people were like, hey, like by the time the show had kind of taken off, people were like, Ryan, please put me in this show. Yeah. Yeah, I got a lot of phone calls and um, you know, oh this is another hot piece of dish. I've never talked about this. Okay, So do you remember that the role that Eve played love Eve almost Whitney Houston had agreed to play that part. Um, so you've given you some Justin Timberlake tea. Again. I don't know if Justin Timberloke ever knew about that, but I thought, but Whitney Houston, that actually made it pretty far down the line. And I had a phone call with Whitney about that part. You to Whitney about it, Yes, oh my god, and that's what well? That lovely and charming and sweet. And I don't I don't think she was in the right place and time to do it as all I'll say. But I remember even with her her agent at the time, like she just loved that it was about kids in choir and she was like, this is phenomenal, like that you're doing a show about show choirs and you know, she was in a choir. Whitney, and I just said, I think you as a teacher would be a great kind of thing for you to play and she said, I agree, um, and yeah, and then we talked about I don't know, it was just but she she didn't end up doing it, and Eve was phenomenal. But I think that Eve was fierce. But I think at the moment that I got close to Whitney Houston, I was like, well, there's other there's people that we can put in here. And then you know, um, I spent years trying to write a role for Jennifer Lopez, who's a friend. I could never figure out the right part, and her schedule was and Anne Hathaway, like there were always people who wanted to do it, but we can never figure out the timing that I called the one that got away. But they were lovely and great after love, like I just wanted to be on it and I was like, please, can you please of them? But every everybody, like there was a moment in time where because people wanted to come and show off, like normally you see actors and they're just acting and they're like, I mean, like all of them, they're incredible. Yes. And I would also like to speaking of Sarah Jessica, do you know that I've gotten death threats about the Turkey Lurkey number. I would just like to say that I don't care and I love that. I love let's have a Kiki Turkey Lurkey one of my faiths, and I did not deserve the death threats. I had a friend last night randomly text me about that number in particular and said, do you remember this number? And I was like yes, He's like I was walking my son with with my husband and I thought it was a dream I had and when I played it for my toddler and he was like, huh, I stand by it. But the but the But the thing about that was, you know, again, it was it was a moment in time where you could turn on television and there was Adele on Entertainment at night talking about the Glee episode like it was just something that people loved and wanted to be a part of it and UM wanted to like I can sing, We all like it was. It was fun. Sometimes I would do it. Sometimes I would search for um, you know what I like. With Anne, I could never the timing was off, and with Jennifer, we can never find the right part. But it was always but it meant a lot that people at that level would reach out and say, we see what you're doing, and we love what it's about, and it's cool and god, you know what, I wouldn't have killed to have been a kid and been able to see something like that on the air. That was always the running thing, like I wish this had been on the air when I was a kid. And I felt that too, and that was the reason why, you know, But for a while there, I did have a really lucky Golden Rolodex. I really did, and it was it was fun special for us too. We got to meet all these really awesome people who came in and were like, I'm a fan of you, and you're like, wait, is that you're a fan of the show first, but like also, and I got to have moments that remained with me, like, um, when I was growing up, one of my idols was Carol Burnette and that show aired at ten o'clock and my father used to get so mad that I would sneak out of bed and watch it. And I get to have a moment with Carol Burnett on the set of Glee where I got to hold her hand and say, when I was a child, I felt completely like an alien and you made me laugh and I recognized in you some energy that I wanted to have. And then of course I broke down and she rubbed my back. But I got to have moments like that with people that I grew up loving, and I got to say, like, you know, Burt back Rack, like I got to say thank you. You meant something to me. You influenced my life in other people's lives. And you know the moving thing about that is nine out of ten times those icons would say wow, Really they have no idea how people feel about them, because people are too exhy in expressing love and expressing you meant this to me, you know, So I got to have those moments as I'm sure you guys did, you know, so many of them with so many great icons. You know, Stevie was one, and that started up relationship with me and her and that continues to this day, which is it was. I was lucky and I'm very humbled by it. And I think now, like what if if Glee were on the air, Like who do you who would you guys like to put on that you have a bucket list? Well? Beyonce? Yes, obviously, I know you guys were always mad that I never did a Beyonce tribute episode. I feel like I feel like Lizzo would have been like the newer um like also would have done as right, would be great to get start. Oh yes, she would be good, you know. Like my only regret the I only have one regret musically, which I I wish she probably wouldn't have done it then, but like I really wanted to do a Taylor Swift tribute episode. Um, we kind of tried a little bit. We certainly did Taylor songs, but I think she's so amazing and those songs would have worked so well on Glee, Taylor Swift was kind of the one that got away back. God, there's so many Beyonce we should have. I wish we could figure it out. But fiance it's hard though, Like that was like doing the Micael episode where it's like, who can sing all these songs? Michael episode, which almost killed us, that's what That's what tore us apart. That was the worst shoot of all time because it was so long, it was so hard. Oh God, I just remember that. I was so paranoid about like because I was obsessed with Michael and you were like, Okay, you can come in and pitch us songs. Yeah, tell me what you want. Right. He was like, what Michael was my breaking point? I wasn't in the Michael episode. That's right, you got fired. I got fired for an episode. Really, I didn't get fired for an episode. I was. I was told to go take a vacation. It was and honestly, we've never talked about this, but it was like my mental it was like my mental health episode. Was that right after you did the video with Gaga? I think when was that? It was right around that time, Kevin. Yes, that's right, that's right. When called you Ryan to ask Jenna could do the video. Yes, when Gag got called and said, Hi, you need to release Jenna for three weeks something like that, and like, I'll do anything you say. It was like two nights got me out. But yeah, there was nothing. But yeah, you know what, I think that, Yeah, you look back on those moments, right that we all had, and they seemed so overblown, and Michael was a big one, you know. And of course, now, Jennet, if you had said, you know what, I'm a young person who is not loving or adjusting well to the schedule, to the limelight, to trying to figure out who I am as a person. I need a minute, that would have been it would have been like, you know what, Jenna, here is two tickets to Hawaii, paid for by the corporation, and please do it. But back then there was no language or so it was like just it was just um, you know, keep it down, keep it down, keep it down. And then you explode and everybody says, what's wrong with you? Know what? What's going on? And as like your roommate at the time, I think I also didn't even recognize what was going on because I was still tired and just going to work, and like, to me, it was surprising too because you just didn't know to look for these things like, oh, we're all doing the same thing. We're fine. If I'm fine, she's fine. Well, And then like you have like these crazy episodes with these massive things that every the press is talking about, and you know you're going all of these like social pressures are now like pushing down on you externally that you're like you don't even have the time or energy to actually looking inward and say like I need a second, right, it's just you act out or you act or you explode or whatever it is, and you know your an emotional meth and you don't know how to quite regulate what you're feeling or you know, tell anybody what's going on. And I think the other thing at the time was there was just like I said, of it, there was no there was no corporate language like you are an employee and you signed a contract and we're shooting, and what do you mean you don't feel like going in, which is going to require rewrite. But it was just a different time and I don't think that any anybody knew the vernacular about But I'm glad that you got that time and I don't you know, it's all a blur, like I just remember, like what do you I don't really want to do a super Bowl episode. I really don't want to because it's like, why are people who people who watched the Super Bowl are not going to watch Glee and we're just going to get attacked and picked on. And it took a month, and it took a month to shoot that episode. It did and there was great things that came out of it, like there was there and there are moments that remain indelible. But it was a lot of pressure and um that's when I had bron critis and the flu. Well, we kept getting canceled. The night shoots um to for Thriller kept getting canceled because everybody kept getting strapped or passing it around and we have to cancel the night shoot if somebody couldn't show up. Yeah, they were in the Michael Jack in the State was very very particular about you know how we were going to you know, when I suggested we were going to mash up Thriller with heads Will Roll, it was it was hours of of conversations and they didn't like it was just a lot, and I do really think that that probably was the apex that we were all like, you know what, this has got to calm down now because this this cannot sustain physically, this is too much. And was that season three? Yes, to Michael Jackson, I don't think was too Jackson was three. But super Bowl is too super bowls Okay wait what was our super Bowl episode? So that? Okay, right, Okay, that's why I'm confused. So it's a blur. Yeah, yeah, twenty two episodes, like it's it all is just a blur, But it was. It was at that end of season two. I'll never forget it. It was at the end of season one. It was like, yeah, we get to go on a tour to a mall. What do you the radio city? Yay, oh my god, look there's a T shirt. And then at the end of season two, what we don't want to do that? We didn't We call you into like a rehearsal room to have a talk with you, to like I don't think we can do this. Yes you did, because there were many moments like that. There was a moment where we're like we can't do this, and I'm like, well, I don't know what to do, like I'm an employee to here. But I will say that our bosses had they really they were great and they had great compassion. And it was one of those things where this had never happened before. So there was no roadmap for any of us in any way to understand anything that we were doing. Um, it was sort of like, you know, stumbling towards the next and and there's just like diconomy of like we don't want to say no, they don't want to say no. Nobody knows how to kind of say like I'm at my ropes at and like we just don't know how to We didn't know how to do that. There was no roadmap for it. And so I look back at it now and it's like, Okay, so you have these group of actors who've given you ten months of their year to shoot twenty two episodes, and now you want them to go on a musical tour. I wish I could have gone to tour with fresh eyes, because going stepping into any arena now to see an artist perform, you're like, God, they're so lucky. This is so cool. And I say that to Kevin every time I'm like, I wish I appreciated tour more, but how could you? You were like, you know, we were all kind of being just It was a nutty time and had three days off in between wrapping the season before we went to Veggas to start. How are those three days? Because I didn't have three days off? Did you enjoy them? Episodes? Kevin, we slept. I was the one that enjoyed the tour of the most. I had a great time. It was all dream true. Oh yeah. We got to London and the girls disappeared. They all just fell off the face that they were crying in their room and why were you crying? Like everybody wanted to go home and see there. We had sold out seven shows in a row at the O two in London and walking up to the stage like take our places for the first show, I had my arm around Leah. I'm like, Leah, isn't this amazing. We're at the most famous arena in the entire world and we're going to do seven sol And I was genuine like that was my dream and she was like, I just want to see my family. Okay, okay, you know, youth has wasted on the young. It's very true. But when I understood it, I understand like that people didn't have the same dreams I had, Like I wanted to be a music pop star, and this was the only way I was going to get to be able to do it. Ryan, you said you wanted to be editor in chief of Vogue growing up. But like you, your fashions have always been very um iconic, if you will um talk about like your your love for costumes and the details of like all of that going into the pilot and the show because it was so specific and it was also so telling of our characters. That's it. Yeah, I was just talking to somebody about that. You know. The thing, the thing that I loved the most in my life is creating a world and then entering into it. And that was always evidenced by my childhood. You know. I grew up in Indiana. Literally in the backyard was a cornfield in a church, and I would be reading articles in the local paper, the Liz Smith column about Studio fifty four, and I couldn't go there. So I turned my bedroom into Studio fifty four. I found reference photos, and I made a disco ball, and I made my room look like like I made my room look like Studio fifty four. Then, for example, when Grace Kelly died, I took a photograph of Grace Kelly to the local hardware store and said, see the color of her eyes. I want to paint my room the color of Grace Kelly's eyes. Can you make me this color? And they were like what, but they did. So I always did that and that was a way to escape my pain. I think, you know, a tortured, picked on, little gay kid. So once I started to do things in Hollywood, and I started off writing movies and none of them got made. And then I did a television show and I instantly loved it because I'm like, oh, I can make a world. I can create something that is in my head and other people can kind of have a porthold so to do it. So everything that I do, um, you know. I spent a lot of time um on the costumes, on the sets, on the colors. And when I was doing Glees specifically, I thought it had to be so bright and poppy and inviting, from the sets, to the costumes to the way it was lit. Because maybe people wouldn't hang around in a musical number, but they would if it was like a candy box, so I was. It was always that level of detail. And you know, I do have really bad O c D. I've been treated for it. I've been on medication for it, and it does not go away no matter what I do. It becomes less as I get older, but it becomes a way to put my anxiety. So I one of the things about my life that I love is is that I will stay up until two in the morning researching and referencing different patterns and colors. Like I'm working on a thing right now about Truman Capodi and I'm doing that, Like so it's like, well, I want to go to Lacote bass v, a famous restaurant in New York, So let me fall into that wormhole. I've loved that part of my life, but that's also been a torment for me because anybody who has O c D knows that it's very difficult. And but it was I think that looking back on it, it's all been a place to put my anxieties, but more than that, my hopes and optimism. But I love that, and I spent a lot of time on all of it. Like just I remember painting the lockers in those hallways of Glee, the hours of research about the exact right shade. Of course, I can't remember what Michael Jackson episode it was, so that's growing old. But um, I did spend a lot of time and energy on and I spent a lot of time and energy on the the the costumes that you guys wore, and that that began the phase of my career that I call my funko pop doll phase, where if you're going to have a character, you have to instantly think about how do I make that character a doll so that it's instantly iconic and has its own iconography. So you know, Tina had her own likes and dislikes, already had his own, well, he would never wear that. Like, it's just things that I instantly just I had mood boards and all of those things. And I do think that that was a way in from many people. The clothes sets, the it just was kind of a delicious um world, the Glee world. It wasn't the real world. And I always say, like, I don't want to live in the world the real world. I want to live in my world and I get to create my World's how lucky am I am? I to do that, Like, I have very specific rules when I create things. You know, I just did this show about Jeffrey Dahmer that's very popular and people are kind of obsessed with why so much yellow? What's up with the yellow? And when I made that show, it was based on I saw one picture of of a hallway and Jeffrey Dahmer's a apartment that had this very weird fluorescent lighting. And I kept trying to figure out where is that color from? And I finally found that color and it was in a urinal cake, the exact same shape of yellow. So I kept holding up this thing saying this is the color, and everything then bounced off that like how lit it the clothes? What does that mean? It's just a concept, and so I'm very um those those kind of things matter to me, and I'm always know before I sell any show, I have learned, like there's so much stuff that you kind of have to design the poster, and you have to design the typography on the poster. You kind of have to have a concept before you make something, because that's you have to or else you're gonna get lost. So all those things I spent a lot of time on, but thank you for noticing that. I mean, I never get to talk about these sort of weird things, but it is the two am decisions, you know. Yeah, I mean I think being on sort of like the receiving end of some of those things where anytime we'd go in with Lou who did the costumes and an incredible team that everything was so specific where she knew the rules, like if you set up the rules of like this is she she got it, she speaks the same language. Yeah. Yeah, it's about having her, who's an expert completely just play within that with each of us. Yeah, there's I think that, Like, I think people want rules and boundaries, both his viewers and his department hasn't even as actors like okay, well this is the box that I get to be in. Great Like there's there's a discipline to it, you know. And I don't know how you guys felt, but I think as soon as I saw you in those costumes, I was like, well, there you go, there's your character. You knew what to do. It influenced everything. Well, there wasn't and there wasn't a lot about like Tina in the pilot, right, like even in my audition, you were like, can you improval at all? Can you just tell me who she? And I had done work on the plane to l a of like figuring out who she was. So I walked in and thin a very specific um idea of who you know and her intent. But like with the costumes, my first fitting, I looked like Artie and I had mom jeans and these very like right, I remember those pictures letters And Luke called me and she said, so we're taking a turn, I hope, and Ryan thinks you look too much like Artie. Let's let's switch it up. And I come in and I see all this chains and black and I was vampire music. I mean I was game, but like walking stepping into those outfits, I was like, oh, this is this is who she is. This makes sense to me now. And then my audition song changed right away, and like everything just kind of like clicked, you know, and and that you know it was it started with the costume, you know, yeah, because we I just remember thinking Ian was always obsessed with Tina's stutter and the pilot and like idea, and I was like, what is that about? Like is that even real? I mean could we even do that today? Could you could we even have done in that this day and age, could we have a character? I don't know, I don't know, but it just became sort of a like I always imagined her as someone who was shy and yet also secretly tough and had an armor, which is where that look came from. And once Lou and I I remember saying like, also, I think Jenna would look really good and a lot of purple, and and that became a thing, and then like we just built it and became ye yeah, and then you know, you watch that pilot and you're like, well, these are all funko dolls, like they just are like they're all every one of you, everybody from Jane and with the track suits, yeah who I mean, that was your idea of the track se and that was was it the plan to always have her in track suits always? Like you know, some things were like you figure out when you're building something, like all the inspiration doesn't come at once, and sometimes you need to put something next to something to make a decision. But I just remember thinking that Sue Sylvester would never would always be ready to jog and ready for like so um yeah, and I really I and I remember talking to Jane and the making of the pilot, and I'm like, I think this is kind of the best role ever because you're always going to be comfortable. You're always just going to be in like a track cozy track suit. And she was like, please layers of sweaters. I know you suffered butts. And also you had a lot of like there was a lot of b York and and and Tina, Like that was another influence. Like that was a thing like we couldn't find her. We were like, we want to do them. I follow we can't find York, New York had fallen off the face of the earth. Gladly we found her. Um, yeah, I don't know. It's it's a toyous process. And also it's really fun, you know when you guys were all playing misfits. So the idea that I always had is this is a group of people who were literally the Island of Lost Toys. And when I was a child, that Christmas musical that had the where the Island of Lost Toys number, I was like, I should be on that island, and I related, and I remember all of their outfits were so singular in their looks, and I'm like, I don't want to be something else, other like remember the doll with the jelly thing, was that it was all these weird things that I and I never wanted them to change. I wanted them to keep their misfit chet because I thought it was so great. Don't be something else. But it's kind of fun how we are able to do that in this business. Well, and also the tidbit I'm sorry, Kevin, the weird thing talking about this morning, Like that iconic scene in the pilot of being you know, being a part of something special makes you special. That was shot in a different costume for Rachel, right, and you are like, he's not working, can't we can't have it like that? No, because she looked like, um, a flamingo dancer. Like it was just like this weird costume. And then we looked at it like, okay, well this is the most this is the thesis statement of the show. And she's not relatable at all. It's like people, she looks like Lola Flana, so we we we shot it. And you know that was also things like that I I, um, I didn't know, you know, I didn't have kids then. So a lot of those, a lot of those that moment came from Dana Walden and Jennifer Sulky seeing the rushes and saying like no, and also like what I had originally planned for Don't Stop Believing was completely out to Mars, and it was. It was those two women who said they should just be real people, simple girls and boys who were wearing like clothes from the gap relatable. That's their version of a uniform. And I was like, oh, yeah, right, let's do that. So it was a very fluid process, um, the making of that pilot and little things that we would shoot and then throw away and then re shoot, and sometimes I would sneak on the lot and do them without permission, which I would pay for later. But um, I just it was always a living, breathing organism until it wasn't like I just kept working on it. I was obsessed with that. Yeah, I mean even if something is simple like you watch Don't Stop Now and it seems so simple, like we rehearse that for weeks and I filled in for Corey because Corey didn't have a work Pieza yet. There were like five different versions of that number that remember, you could like Ryan would come in, you come in and be like I want something twilight arms up, I want lots of arms up. Yeah, I mean the thing. I did have a vision, but I also didn't my vision was yes or no, So like I remember you guys, I do remember. We worked on it a lot, and I also knew you know. Also, I will tell you no one wanted to do Don't Stop Believing Brad in the studio. No one wanted to do it because it had just been done on The Sopranos, and I kept saying, I don't care. I just know it's this song because it meant something to me as a kid, and just the phrase don't stop believing um. And also when I was working on it, more important than the number was the look on Mr. Shoes face watching it, remembering his own dreams. And I remember we did one take and Matt just kind of started to cry and then like that's it. That's what I wanted, and he was like, no, no, that was a mistake. I was like, no, that's what I wanted. Like that idea of looking back at your life and thinking I wish I had done something differently and move towards the person that I was afraid to be. That's what that song was for. Me. So in terms of seeing it, it was you know that that Mike Nichols quote of this is, you know the elephant dancing on the head of a pin. That was what that number was. And if it didn't if that number wasn't working and didn't make you cry, I'll probably cry talking about it, like it's not gonna work. So there was the big exuberant don't stop believing, and then there was the middle of the road one, and then there was the one where I think it was like you know, movement shots where it was like blue man, I don't know what you were doing, and I just remember, we have to distill this down to make it feel like relatable kids who don't know what they're doing, but it's kind of good and it's just like this, you know. I remember, I remember the moments and shooting that number where something would matter to me more than other things. I wasn't so much interested in some of the steps as I was was was interested in Jenna, like how you would fling your hair around or Leah would like do that, or like what that meant, like youth, the exuberant of being free in a space. You're free on that stage, You're not free in the hallway so you can fling your body around. I remember being so moved by your hair acting like things like that. That hit and then we did an episode based by bursting into tears that the youthfulness of hair being flung. But it was like, um, it was just it was such a great um. We worked really hard on it, and we we we were given the time to rehearse and to work things out and for me to say yes, no, not that, more of that, do more of that? Um. I was obsessed with the way Amber would pat her leg at the beginning, like little moments that probably no one ever cared about. These are the things that I obsessed over because for me, they represented hope, youth, freedom, safety. I remember when I was in drama club. It was the only place in the world where I felt that I could be me and not be judged. So I was looking for things like that and and those were powerful moving things that And I almost also have this rule in my career where which I learned from Glee, which is the most the more specific something is, the more universal it becomes. So we're making like no one thought a show about show choir would ever work. But the reason it did is because everybody knows what it's like to be misunderstood, unseen and bullied everybody, and that is the thing that people glommed onto. And um, I've never forgot it. I've never forgot the the the shooting of that episode and the specificity. And I kept, you know, I don't know how many takes we would do, sometimes fifteen and also I will I will be honest, like it was so sometimes you guys would be doing numbers. You have to remember that we built that auditorium on stage right, and we would be doing and I'll like, for example, when we were doing them troubled Tones, mashup of the Adele songs, Rumor has It? And what was the other song, Jenna? What was that song? Someone like you? That was a moment where you guys, we're just doing it and Adele was you know Adele. And that was a day where I think I said, we're going to shoot the whole day this number, that's what doll we're doing, and everyone on the lot, from all of these different departments at Fox, we just came and we sat in the audience and it was so magical that I think you guys maybe had to run it like fifteen times before we kick people out. People would you got standing ovations in the rehearsal. I remember like it was just moving to see young people performing at that level and being able to be creative, and the lighting and it was just kind of nutty and magical. But that's what I remember, the joy of seeing you guys kill it. And also like when we did wheels that episode in the first season, that number all of you in the wheelchairs. Again, probably not something we could do today, but I remember enjoyed shooting that. Yeah, and I remember Paris and I sitting in that director sitting in the auditorium just marveling, like I can't believe, like that these kids get to sing this song and talk about um, yeah, you know, disabilities in this way, and it sometimes you just felt like you were outside watching it, like you couldn't believe what we were getting away with and like, okay, but I knew when we were doing it the reaction that the audience would feel that way, and they did, maybe not Tom style, but I think we felt that within it too though even telling it, especially those first third team where like you said, we had the time and had the care like even when we go into the recording studio later on, we'd have to record a song basically in thirty minutes, but we had half a day to figure out with Adam Ander's like what are the three parts gonna sound like? And b Mary we didn't know because our voices are so different. We were still figuring all that out, and there was so much excitement from every department to figure it out and make it all work together, and having you know, people who were designing the sets come out and finally see like what it looked like as everyone's performing, as Andrew Mitchell was shooting it, you know, with these beautiful steadicam shots and seeing the joy it brought so many different people for so many different reasons, and it just magically working over and over again, Like I remember Don't Stop, which was maybe this one of the simplest umbers we've ever done. We should I think we shot it for day and a half. Yes, we get like seventies something takes and you watch it like, well, this is very simple, but had you not taken the care big musical number we had done like that, and also like directing a musical, do you know how hard it is to get a light flare to go off at the exact moment Lia Michelle puts her head. It was hard, like we've never done anything like that, so we had the space to be like and I just kept saying, that's not it, that's not it, that's not it, that's it. And then when that took a while, but I just it was it was like, Um. One of my favorite moments in the show was when we were doing the Vitamin D number. And you know, the story of the Vitamin D number was because at that point, you know, we were in the middle of shooting in and I was so tired, and um, we noticed that whenever I took a claret and d from my allergy, suddenly we had the energy to continue one with the screenwriting. But I remember, I remember the day that we were doing I didn't like the boys part of it. I'm sorry, Kevin, but I was obsessed with the Halo walking on Sunshine part of it. I remember thinking, like, how are these girls going to do this number because I had not seen the rehearsal, and just how insane you guys were and how much fun you had. That was another day where we just sat there and laughed and watched it all day, and there were so many times where even if we were in the scenes, we would all just go watch each other's numbers so impressed. There were days where you guys would not be filming and you would come in to watch other cast members perform, just to sit there and say like, well, what are they gonna do? You know how often I'd sit in that choir room and be like, I'm getting paid to sit here and watch these people get up here and perform their asses off real and respond to it. Yeah, you know. I was like, you guys are so talented, and like you would have ideas that would push us, Like you would have me doing songs I never would have picked for myself or given. Amber never used to like do the like yellow singing sort of like that. She's like, I've never done that before, and now can you imagine hearing her not do that? Where we were all pushed to challenge ourselves, and then I think you also saw that and then started to sort of implement some of those changes into the characters, like from our real lives, and I felt sometimes it was great. Sometimes we're like this seems familiar, but it was. It all came from us being able to just push ourselves and that Yeah, that's first thirteen, even into year one and two. Like I remember that I would never ever do anything on Friday nights because most of the time we would be shooting in that choir room until four in the morning Friday night, and it was you know, we would all sit around in a huddle in our crappy director's chairs and that have given me years of back problems, and we would just like shoot the ship and talk and like make jokes and um and a lot of the things that we would write would come from those moments of like, wait a minute, why are Naya and um Amber singing the boy's mind? Well, we got to put that into an episode. Like it was like Heather, the whole character was, Yeah, the dolphins have yet like moments just hanging out and they were Hi, It's Bethany Frankel. My time on the Wheelhousewives of New York is a few years behind me, and now I'm ready to put the wheel back into the Wheelhousewives. That's where my new podcast, We Wives comes in. Isn't your typical rewatch podcast. I'm watching only the most iconic episodes from all cities. I'm sharing never before heard stories of what happened behind the scenes. And I'm not just pulling in cast members for postgame analysis. I'm doing something a little more interesting. If you've ever seen an episode of The wheelhouse Wives, you know the drill, But beyond throwing drinks and legs, there are lessons about marriage, divorce, friendship, money, parenting, and fame if you have the right minds, analyze and dig deeper. So I'm bringing on unexpected thought leaders and celebrities to get their take on the chaos this season. I sit down with Elizabeth Moss, Kevin Neal and Zusie Orman, Griffin Johnson and more. You think that there isn't much to learn from flipping tables and yanking wigs, but that's where you're wrong. Listen to Rewives with Bethany Frankel on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Ryan, Like, this show has had so much impact on like everybody right around the world. But you know, we talked about us in the bubble and you, um, like, there's so much media out there they raises us, brings us down, but like, what what do you want this show to leave? And and how do you want it to imprint on people, on you, on us, Like, what is it that you want this show's legacy to be? You know, I for me personally right it. I said this at the Coreries memorial service, where I said, you know, Glee was the best of times and it was the worst of times in all of our lives. I think that's true because of the tragedies, because of things. But also the thing that I have learned the older I get is lean into the best of times. And I look at that show and what it did, and um, how we don't we don't read remember, but I'd remember because I forced myself sometimes to go back that first season when Glee came on. I think attendance and show choirs left something in this country. There was some article I remember cutting it out and showing it to you, back when there was newspapers. I remember things like that, the legacy of m a love for music, a legacy of looking at social issues. UM like UM, so many episodes that we did that were very heavy and we're really about something that young kids. I think that the legacy of UM examining you know, high school bullying was was a big thing coming out was a big thing. Drug addiction was a big thing. There were just so many things that we covered to me that were important. But the legacy that I want to last, which I think is lasting, is the show celebrates music of all kinds and it is a love letter to musical artists and to um misfits in high school who can express what they're feeling from song. And that was the conceit that you would just be walking down the hallway and you'd burst into song. But that's kind of what life is always felt to me, Like, I just care now about you know, young kids watching the show who can feel the thing I'm embarrassed about myself is the very thing I should be celebrating. That to me is what the show was about and will always be about. And I'm at the phase now with that show, you know, where it's like, well, there's been enough time, Like maybe we should really re examine it as a brand, you know, should we do um a reboot of it in some way? Should we do a Broadway musical of it? In some way? Like it's sort of like an interesting legacy see that I'm interested in doing in a positive way. After sort of pausing for a while, but I don't know. I just love what it says and what it did, and there will never be in my life another Glee anything close to it in terms of me feeling so close to it and the feeling that I really did have when I made it, which was just pure love and feeling that I, as a misunderstood, unloved kid, had a moment where maybe I was understood. That's what it means to me. It was it's very much that show about how I felt as a kid and how I wish I had a friend like that show, Like if that show had aired when I was a kid, it would have been my friend. And I find that really moving, and I find it so important that so many young kids do see that show as that, And that's what I love about it, and that's what I'll always love about it. And well, that's what I think we all tried to do with it. Are we all crying now? I see tears. I mean, that's that's how it feels for me. And I think I don't speak for Dinner, but it was it brought us all together, it made us. It was you know, meta in that way where yeah, we were playing characters, but we were those kids, and we did get brought together and did get to have this incredible, wild experience where we felt appreciated and that we belonged, and how around the world people got to connect with that, connect with us, connect with you. And it's incredible that anything can last that long and still have that that much meaning. And so it's incredible to be a part of something that has and still does mean that much to people. Yeah, it's sweet, it's it's um I look at it in just such a different light, like it's the thing that never should have worked, that worked, and it work just because of the group of people who made it and how much we all believed in it and we just we had no idea and like, I've never had that feeling again of let's roll up art literally like that. That's the reason why you go into show business. First of all, you do. Anybody in show businesses in show business because you are in love. That's just the truth. And you go into that to try and get this universal feeling of acceptance and love and that you're missing, which show business and success gives you. Right, That's what I've learned from my decades of therapy. But um, I just feel like it was such a wonderful time, and I'm glad that we get to, you know, have conversations like this where we're we're able to look back in it in a fond way, like we're not in the pressure cooker of making it, and when you're in the pressure cooker, it's hard. But now we're like, um old enough and we have an a distance that I hope everybody who did it could see that it really was made with pure love and great intent. But I'm just curious to you guys, have any because I'll never talk about this again. Do you have any undying questions you've always wanted to ask me about the show? Because I feel like there has to be something we didn't talk about or have we talked about everything? Um, I have something dark I was going to ask about, like we were to do it, we were talking about now we're talking about Corey, and we were talking about but I don't think we ever got to talk about like the decision and the conflict of like actually making the quarterback right, Like we obviously were very we were contracted and we were going to make it whether we wanted to or not, right, Like we were a part of that. But we were given the option to not do it, but yeah, I think I remember Ryan or somebody saying like, you don't have to do this, but it felt like I feel like everyone's gonna do it. I don't want to be the one person who's not right. And then I think a part of it was like we did it for Cory in some way, um, in hopes that we would get some sort of closure within in some weird way. So I'm just curious, like we never really got to hear about your guys side of that decision to like actually doing yeah, and make that decision, like how Finn was going to exit the show. That's a really good question because I've thought a lot about that recently, and I would not have done that show now. I just would not have done it. I would never have. I felt like it was way too raw and way too soon. And but this is what happened. So Corey died, and the months leading up to that were very fraught and emotional and difficult to love someone. And and I had no idea that he had a drug problem. Um, I was naive. I didn't no, Um, I don't. Yeah, And then you know I was the person who had to lead the intervention, not knowing what to do or what to say, Like I was just like desperate for him to live, you know, and it was again I had no training for that. So when he passed, you know, there was a decision that we had to make about, um, do we cancel the show or do we go on? And it was a difficult decision. And I had a conversation with Leah about it because she was dating Corey and was very you know, involved in in the thing, and it was like, well, what do you want to do? And it was it was it was a big corporate decision. And there was a decision after a couple of of weeks of well, there's a crew here that's been with us from day one, there are many jobs on the line the show. The show was still doing well, Um, do you keep it going or do you cancel it? Of course there's no right answer, um, And I didn't really know what to do, so I just sort of I remember, after many conversations from a lot of people weighing in, we made the decision to well, let's keep it going. And if you're going to keep it going and keep these jobs going, how do you address what happened because the male lead of the show, you know, died, So what do you do? Do you just pretend it didn't happen. You can't do that. Did he die off camera? That didn't feel right to me? Um, And I just think that with a lot of conversations, we decided to pay tribute to him. Yeah, And it was something that I remember even then thinking, Okay, well, if we're gonna do this, people are going to have a lot of feelings. And I don't even remember. I was in such a blur of grief, to be honest, and so devastated by his death that you know, I don't know if I told you guys the story, but you know I helped him in his intervention and he seemed to have gotten through it in a good way. And then I went off to make The Normal Heart and I was always talking to him every day, and he came to the set of The Normal Heart to be with me, and he was like my child, and I remember thinking like, oh my god, thank god he made it, thank God he's gonna be okay. He came to Fire Island and he spent time with me, and I remember thinking like, against all odds, he's going to be okay, and then two days later, three days later, he died, so it was very unexpected and um, anyway, so we decided to do the tribute episode, and I remember that the one thing that I asked for was that there was a grief counselor on set who at any moment could you know? People weren't really doing that back then to my knowledge. But I also remember that not one single person talked to that grief counselor. Nobody was interested in really sharing it. And I think that, um, it's it's an episode. I was able to watch once and at it, never looked at it again. I probably think that it was not right. Two Again, it was complicated because, as I recall it, everybody had the choice do you want to sing? Do you not want to do this? Do you want to be in it? Do you not want to be in it? If you don't want to be in it, I will understand. Um, it just felt like an impossible corner. We were all put in right like there's no right or wrong, there's no it just felt like and it blurred to me to like I don't remember being given the option. I'm which now like I remember briefly, but like it just was one of those things that, like I think the grief counselor was like it was just a sign that it was all too soon, too raw, like nobody was ready to talk about it right, Like nobody was in the place too. And also we were all very very protective of each other, like we were all very close on all levels, and it felt like that we were having to sort of I had never lost anyone before that I was that close with, and I didn't know how to personally deal with it other than like being around all of you guys and being able to talk about it, and because I knew everybody felt the same and so having you know, yeah, we're in a scene talking about a character, obviously we're talking about our real friend, and then there's a camera on you, and it's like when those things happened, like you don't know when you're going to lose it and not lose it and break down. And I remember the camera turned on me and I just got up out of the wheelchair and walked out of the scene and I was just outside stage is just like losing it and crying and and I was like, what is happening? Like what is going on because the separation. I've watched other shows shows do it too since just to see and it is that you know, there's no correct answer, there's no right way to do it. And I just remember feeling like our little group here is being exposed in a way where by that point too, you know, we were constantly in the press or It's like I just wanted to, I think, get even closer and protect ourselves, and it felt like we were sort of opening the thing to the public. And there was also a thing I remember when we had to go to the Teen Choice Awards and accept an award and they wanted us to speak about Corey and there's all this weird stuff like what is like what is happening where you are still managing a brand and a job, but also at the core of it, it's like, okay, one of our closest friends is gone and like and we also, yeah, we didn't know what to do. We had never been in this very peculiar specifics. What do you what do you guys? You know, what do you think we should have done? That's the thing I don't know, because creatively, I don't know how you get around it. As you do address it, and it also feels like an elephant in the room if you don't address it right. Yeah, it was very, very difficult, and yeah, if I yeah, if I could do it all over again, I think, knowing now what I do know, I probably would have said, you know what, we're going to take a year off and then we're going to check in and see how does everybody even six months? Remember, I remember that everybody had time off after he died. I remember we kept moving the shooting date. Um. But you know, the world was a different place than again. It was. It was such a and everybody who were you know, our bosses had great empathy. None of us knew what to do, but I know none of us knew how to handle it. None of us knew how to pay tribute to him. None of us knew what to do with the business. But all of us did know that when that happened, I think our hearts all kind of broke and we were kind of done. Even though it was it was not said, we were like, okay, well that that there, it's gone, that the spirit of joy of it has left the building. And you know, you can keep things going for financial reasons and to keep crew members being paid. And again, the crew that we had was several hundred people who were with us from the beginning who did depend on those paychecks, so that that was a big thing to be thinking about. But I wasn't thrilled with how it was. It just I didn't know what to do. Nobody did, and I think we did the best with what we could. But it was very dark, and you were right to say, like, let's talk about that, because none of us have really talked about it. Um I blocked it out of my memory. I do remember talking to everybody and saying, do you want to sing a song or not? Or what do you want to do? Like I remember Leah was very unsure and that was her ideas to sing that song, and it was like, are you sure? Okay? Like I don't remember. I remember everything being very tender and tentative and not knowing where to move. But if I had to do it again, I wouldn't. I would we would have stopped for a long time and different world, probably not come back. I don't think we would have come back now if this had happened, I would be like, that's the end, because you can't really recover from something like that. And also it wasn't like a normal death where someone was sick and you can see them. It happened so quickly with no warning, and we thought things had been first of all, we had no idea, and then it was sort of dealing with the crisis, and um, yeah, we just have such a young cast to lose so many people that it feels so, I don't know, a bit much bigger and more tragic because it's these people who aren't having lived out their time right or havn't like, had the full experience. They're full time spent here. Yeah, and that's again, to be blunt, I think that's part of the reason why none of us have wanted to do anything else with the show, because of respect for the people who have passed. And like, Okay, well maybe it's fine as it is, and if you bring it up again, it maybe it's not healthy to examine these emotions and feelings, but maybe it is. I don't know the answer. I just know that whenever we talk about it or things like this, like I'm sure you guys have no idea that there were all of these conversations like about should we or shouldn't we? You just thought, like, this is what we're doing. You did not get to see the parent exactly crying in the room on his knees, sobbing, saying I can't go on. You didn't see dad do that. You just saw Okay, here's here's trying to be a leader. Um yes, trying to be stoic in front of us, keep it together. And in some ways we all just wanted to be together. So what what other way but to come and do the show and be together and he'll together, you know. So I remember talking to like Telly was in the writer's building and he was just like, it's really hard to even just be on the lot every day, even to just be in the same places where we were with him every single day, where no matter where we went, it was just a constant remind reminder. Yeah, yeah, I think you're probably right in the the decision probably to have if it happened today that you were just yeah, it's a no brainer, right, like in in hindsight, but like you know, again, we live in a different world. That's why like these new eyes of like watching the show and looking at the show as adults, and you know, with all this time, you know in space between it, like it's it's a different beast now, and like we look back so much more fondly than the the anger and the pain that you know kind of was over shadow over shadowed a lot of it for a lot of time. I also think because a lot of the bad stuff happened towards the end, and so that's the most what what do you like? I'm interested in that, Like, what do you define the bad stuff? Corey? I think you know the mark of it all Naya and so like the things that happened more recently were losing people we were close with, and then I think there were other things that happened towards the end of the show, behavioral things well, and also the core casts that we that grew into this thing, you know, like everybody separated, Like we didn't see half of our friends. They went off to New York and half the show was split into two different shows, and so it felt like our whole family went, you know away, and you're like, I'm you know, Kevin and I are still in the choir room and we're like, what's going over you know, happening in New York And you're hearing of all these things and you know, the media wheel is going and the gossip wheel is going, and it just felt like everybody took the show and ran with it versus like the bubble that we were able to experience and the law that we're able to experience in the pilot and in that short you know, in those first couple of years. Yeah, of course, that's the dilemma when you do a high school show, right, It's like, Okay, well they have to graduate, and they have to they have to. And of course when you're I remember hating that idea, it's like, I don't want to leave this choir room. I'm not interested in going to New York. I don't care about that. I only cared about those kids in that room. And um hm, that was a creative decision that maybe, um I should have addressed in the writing. Like I don't know, maybe we had done four seasons and like one of them was like an acid trip, and then you got to repeat your senior years so that all of you and then it should probably have ended once we left that choir room. And I think that you learned, like, you know, you learned that when you're doing a high school show, other people who struggle with that too, you know, Um yeah, I mean there are shows on now that they just replaced entire casts every two seasons. Just like in here, the new people, but also like the characters, you don't want to leave them. I think we live in a world now with television particularly well, where the appetite for a hit show is probably three seasons. That seems to be the streaming model, and there's a reason for that, and I wish, but also we did some great things in those last two seasons that were phenomenal and musical numbers that were great, and so I wouldn't change anything. But I do have regrets, you know. I think what I wish I had really done is to have more, you know, in talking about it with you guys, I wish that we had had more sort of State of the Union's meetings where you were allowed and I was allowed to sit with you guys and say, Okay, this is where I am. What do you want to know? Because I would have told you it was just like we were always in different places and running around and just trying to keep up. I just remember that feeling like I'm trying not to drown. I am. I am paddling as fast as I can. I did not have the resources or the training or the skills to really do it or know what I was doing, and I was faking it till I made it. Of course, now I would be able to handle it in a completely different way, and many relationships in a very different way. Um, and I wish I had. But um, but you're able to do that now, and you're able to be apparently like a more well rounded human, probably because you did go through all of these things. Yeah, I mean I would love to come back on your podcast and really go through some of these later episodes that I did direct and tell you like because I like talking about the joy of it, Like I enjoyed this conversation you tell us when come back, Like I really want to talk about Um, well this is the pilot, but I mean there's so many great I mean episodes like have me back because I want to talk like I love love talking about well the Madonna when we can talk about that right now, but like, yes, like I mean there's so many I will come back from Madonna. But I want to like even talking with you guys about the joy of of the Adele mash up or the vitamin D number or don't stop you leaving, just sitting here talking about God. We had so much fun. We were all just fans like we were fans. And Amber Ley is the one who first turned me onto Adele. She was the one who said, have you heard this singer? Um, Kevin, I think you were the first person who told me about Lady Gaga because you guys were on some show with her and I'm like, who's Lady God? Yeah, yeah we did. And so these were just like um creative moments where we're like, I love this person, listen to this or check out this or remember this. And then you know, it was my job to inform you guys of ancient Barbara streisand songs. I knew that I didn't know any musical theater. You kid. I remember I've told the story of a billion times, but I don't know if you knew this right and that when Chris and Chenowith was doing Maybe this time during between one of the setups, I was walking around the halls with her. I was like, I'd never heard this song before. You sound great, right, yeah, Kevin, no idea? I was like, you cannot fix me. Imagine how heretical and bizarre. It was to be doing a Kandarin Ebb song on a mainstream network television show, like that's just so weird, and we did that. You can do now dance on TV. It was like a dream come true. You know. It's like everything you either have to choose between TV or Broadway, right my whole life, people were like, we have to choose one acting or singing, like no, I can't write, And then here we happened. Yeah, um, please come back Ryan. We well I'm coming back from Madonna. So like, what was that episode fifteen or sixteen of season one? So how are you telling me you guys, how you guys are going to do this show? Because I love when you guys talk about Glee and I have kind of we've had conversations, but I've always been I've never let anybody else do anything like this except for you too, because I do believe that you have a love of the show and that you believe in the message of the show, and I trust you implicit So tell me, like, how do you do how are you going to do this this show that I think people are going to really enjoy? Do you do an episode? One? Episode a week, okay, and we'll go through the episodes and then we're going to obviously go through the actual narrative of the episode, go through the characters and all that our half hour stories memories, and then there's sort of all the other fun things that we can add in, you know, addressing some of the crazy like TikTok rumors and things that dispel some of those sort of things you tell me about those what are those? Oh my god, it's crazy. So this is I think what started the Glee resurgence during the pandemic was TikTok. There's Glee talk because the algorithm can get so specific that people started sharing all of like their favorite or most hated or wildest conspiracies about the show. But also like Glee is still being talked about two thousand twenty two, as you know, and so like let's talk about what people were talking about the show currently and address some of those things. I mean, we also wanted to like bring on some of the actual artists that we covered this time around, Like I'd love to know Steve Perry's view of how our version of Don't Stop, you know, how that affected his career, if at all, And he was he was. He was the first one when I was on my bend or about I have to get this song. He was supportive from the get go, and I remember he came to set. Yeah, I remember meeting. He was very lovely and just got it and got and I think I had a very brief conversation with him about I'm interested in this song because of x UM. Yeah, we may have questions for you too. I should have a segment on your show called true or False where you just asked me questions and I'm only allowed to say true or false. Great, let us let us do on it and come up with some really good ones. It's funny because I'm elderly now, but I do have a nine year old who's who I let watch TikTok sometimes, and he's always saying, like, your show is really popular on here. I'm like, what each And then I try and research it and I can never find anything. I have fallen into the YouTube. They're all of these compilation things where will be like, you know, Sucilvest's greatest moments or one hundred of the most insane things that they actually put on Glee, And I'm like, oh my god, how do we do that, right, Mr Shoes. Creepiest moments, yes, yeah, things that things that didn't age well, the future, yes, predicting the future, yes, yes, yeah, So we'll talk about stuff like that. Okay, I'll come in and do a true and false segments. Okay, we're going to add that. We're gonna add Ryan, You're the best. Thank you, Thank you so much, serious, thank you. I think we should also have a segment called we did this right? And I think we should have a segment called we really this up. Yeah. I think that's right. There were some things you know that you don't know that you just trying to the turn of it, you know, but a lot of things we did right. So we did. Love you guys, thank you for having Okay, by what a conversation with Lady Ryan Murphy. UM, it's no truly incredible. We're just so grateful to him, and UM, we can't wait to recap the pilot with you guys next week. We're going to go back and chat about what really happened. That's what you really missed um in the pilot And so make sure you go watch that this week and join us next week and follow us on Instagram at and that's what you really missed. Pod follow Kevin, follow me for all the Glee insider tips. Are we trading trading tips? We're trading tips, trading stocks, training tips. Thank you so much for your support these first two weeks. Please also let us know who you want us to have on the pod and we'll do our best to try to get all our our friends and fans to come on and talk about this show. So see you next week. Thank you for being here. Bye bye bye,