And that's what you really missed With Jenna and Kevin an iHeartRadio Podcast, Welcome too, and that's what you really missed. I'm Jenna, I'm Kevin, and today we are joined by the mastermind of Glee again, Ryan Murphy. We just can't keep him away. He keeps coming back. Goodness, thank goodness. I every time Ryan comes on, like I talked about, like every time he's been on, you know, once before, but it feels like a lifetime when we talk to him. It feels like we like it fills up this like crazy bowl and overflows and you get so much information that you didn't know. We talk about a reboot, We talked about his Baby Passion episode Madonna, which kind of changed the course of Glee forever in many of our minds and hopefully you're and also the how those things logistically on like a business side work, like how do you get the rights to doing whatever you want with Madonna's music? That's absolutely crazy? And did Ryan have to bang Madonna? Did he? Does Ryan beg anyone? Now we'll find out. Enjoyed this conversation. We could talk to him for hours and hours. Brian came on again and chatted with us. Thank you, Ryan, and we hope you enjoy this conversation again with the one and only Ryan Murphy. Thank you for doing this again. I know it's good to see you. Good to see you, guys. I have to do this one because it was my my big directorial thing that I loved doing that first season, other than the pilot. So before we get into Madonna, congrats on the Carol Burnette Award. That was a beautiful, beautiful thank you. It was an hour to do and it was an honor to be a part of some clips and that tribute. You're welcome. That's what's so crazy is you know, you're sitting there and I wouldn't say I'm young, but I'm relatively on the young side to get some sort of lifetime achievement awards. So you're sitting in here, like for so much of it. When I was looking at it and watching it for the first time, I was just like, I had to fight, like to get this stuff on the air. So much of it was a battle, and then halfway through I'm like, oh yeah, then it got easier right around here, and I was overwhelming, and I had taken a clear in d that morning, so when I got up to speak after talking like this, I'm like, oh my god, this could go so wrong. I got through it. I got through it. I did my breathing, and I got through it. My beautiful speech. It was a great speech. Yeah, it's beautiful. It made us think of when we went to the Golden Globes for the first time, and one after what half the first season had aired. This seems absurd. Did you think we were going to win? You know, that was a really interesting time where broadcast TV hit some real oomp, you know, and I remember going in and I didn't really care because I liked my clothes so well. I was on the Shevan sheet talks that I've loved, and I remember people saying it was between us and Modern Family. I think, yeah, that was like, you know, those were the two big broadcast juggernauts, and Dana Walden, who I'm very close with, those were both of her shows, so I knew she'd have a good night either way. But I wasn't really surprised, I guess about the first year because it had become such a cultural juggernaut at that point. I was surprised the next year when we did the back to back. That was surprising to me. But I was shooting the Madonna episode right around the time of the Golden Globes, so I remember it was just such a you know, a big moment for you, for you guys and for the show, and it really had taken off. It was nutty. Yeah. Did you feel sort of vindicated winning because you know the show Convincing the network in the studio to actually make the show in the first place is sort of like a thing. And then you win this award? What happens? Then the show's a juggernaut. You win Best Comedy and then you're getting picked up for the back nine. What does that whole since this has look like on your end of it, Oh gosh, um, well, I had one. It wasn't my first trip to the rodeo. You know, that's been there before with Nicktuck before. I think for me that period of time, there were so many people who did support the show against a huge group of people at the network that did not want it to go forward. But Dana really fought for it, so I felt she was very vindicated. I have a theory about awards, which is, you know, if you get nominated for award much More important than the win is the fact that you probably can stay on the air now for five years. That's kind of how it works because once you get in that rarefied air win loser draw, it's a sign that the show is popular or critically loved, and then you get a future. So for me getting nominated and then winning with a musical, I was like, well, this has this can go four or five seasons, which it did, and that's what the win was, more than the actual trophy. But I remember the thing I remember the most is the win. I remember thinking Barbara streisand in some bizarre way, it was kind of an out of body experience. And to be quite blunt, we were all incredibly drunk in that room youtubecluded I remember, And then I remember what I really remember was in that still exists, was you know, you win, and you could tell the room was really rooting for us because of the musical theater thing. And then we all went backstage and I remember that incredible photograph, yes, of all of you guys and Brad and I and maybe Brad wasn't there, ian Um reaching for the statue and I think somebody was whoever was behind me was was tickling me. Um, so I had I smiled unexpectedly when the photograph was taken, but um, yeah, I have fun memories of that unexpected it was. Yes, yeah, there was a lot of joy that night. There was a lot of joy, and there was a lot of joy in that whole period of the show, which I love and remember. Finally, do you want to talk about about some Madonna? I mean I want to talk about some season one stuff as well, but I think Madonna is like the Mecca. Tell us about the the idea for the first tribute episode and was it not even the succession like a planned was it just a Madonna episode that was kind of on the forefront of your mind? How did that kind of what was what was that like? You know what was interesting? Because there was two things about that, which was you know, we made as we talked about the first chunk of that show in a real bubble. The pilot it aired in May, did okay? Was on after the American Idol finale that I pushed for It did okay, and we made them and we didn't have the back half picked up. And then I went off to Rome with Julia Roberts, right, So I was off making Eat, Pray, Love with Julia, and I was all flying oh over the world, and I'm not someone who does well with that, so draftling. But she and I had a great time, and Cass was great and Billy Crude was great. We just had a ball and you know, so it was interesting for me that it started to air and I was not in the country. I was in Rome, and I will never forget it. Like, after the second episode aired, it did well, and then I think it was after the Christian Channa with the Roads Not Traveled episode, which was three I think, or was it four. It was in that group time. I got a call from Jennifer Sulky, who now runs Amazon, and she said, I just got the ratings in for that episode, and you're not going to believe how big they are. Something is happening. It's a big hit. And it kept growing every week, which is a real sign. And so I wasn't there. And you know, this was really before the Internet and before social media where you could log in, so it was all happening in a vacuum, and I never really read reviews, so I didn't get sent that packet. So they called me when by the time I got to India. They called where No, Yeah, India, they called and picked up the back half and we had to start writing, you know, because we had to start shooting because they were really wanted it to go on the air quickly. And we remember what happened. But I remember getting a call from I think it was Peter Lagori or Kevin Reilly or somebody saying me saying, well, what are you what are you interested in for the rest of the show, And he said something like, I really want a lot of you in there. I want I want a lot of you. Because at that point I was picking all the songs. Yeah, I did for several seasons, and I thought, okay, well, and I thought, well, what do I want to do? Yeah? Who do I want to pay tribute to? And it wasn't even the idea that I wanted to do a whole episode, but I thought, well, I want to. I want to. I want to do some more Madonna a because she meant so much to me coming up, you know, and I have a funny story about that. And then also because I had worked with her and I thought it would be impossible to do and I like doing things that are scary, so um, That's how that started. And I do think that that episode changed the show hugely because before I remember one review that I read very early on in the run of Glee was I think like a duets episode and it was about just very simple staging and two people singing songs to each other in a choir room, and someone like I think it was Matt Rouch just wrote and said, why can't all the episodes be like this? Meaning simple, nice, quiet? But that was never what the show was about. I was always shocked that people never understood the anarchy of the show. And then it truly was a satire. I mean it struck me once I got deeper into what people were thinking of it, because I had to ask. I was like, so people didn't have trouble with the Susie Pepper story, and people didn't have trouble with the ejaculation and the hot tub story. No, it was always very subversive and Ian and Brad and I really wrote it as a satire. That's what it was. Yeah, long story short, I called up Brad and Ian and I said, Okay, we have to get we have to get writing. The good newses were picked up. The bad news is I'm in Bali and you have to come over to be with me and Bali and write these episodes. Y Ian was like great, and Brad was like, um, I have children, and I said, well, I don't know what else to do. There was no zooms, There was nothing we tried doing and it wasn't working. And all of us had always done the episodes together. So Brad made it work and they flew over to m Bali and the worst places to have to go work there were, you know Julia, I remember we were under my days off, we would just be sequestered in a hotel room overlooking a beautiful beach and Julia Roberts would drop off snacks. And I was literally trying to teach Brad and Ian about Madonna because they were straight and they really did not know. I think I think I played that name that tune thing once with Brad and I would play a song and he would be like, like a virgin, but no, this is material girl. So it was a learning curve. But I showed was that because for me, I was an underdog as a kid, and I was an underdog growing up. And there was a seminal moment for me where I went to a college party my freshman year, and it was at some dude's house. It was kind of like a frat group, and there were a lot of women there are young women, and there was a couple of gay guys there, and all these straight dudes holding up the wall, you know, just talking, and I really think they were playing like Black Sabbath or something. It was really bad. And I had a Madonna cassette in my car and I'm ready to got it ready, and I was just like, well, let's get this party started. So I put it on and I put on dress you Up. And the next thing I know, everyone was on the dance floor and it really changed the room. And this one on for an hour, and then finally the straight guy took out the cassette and ripped it. He broke it because we had hijacked his party. And I thought, oh, that's a real memorable feeling for me that I know well, being a gay guy moving in the world. And I never forgot that moment of what she meant to a group of people who could come together who all kind of felt like underdogs or minorities or outcasts. That's really how that episode started. But the other thing that changed the show at that point. Once we made it, it went from being a show that was kind of a quiet, lovely little satire to a true spectacle, you know, to a true pop culture thing where we really started to pay a lot more attention to pop culture things and movements and people. But I remember, I just remember that that episode is I think when I changed the show, changed people's perception of the show changed. It was an interesting moment in the history of a show. And if you look back on it, for better or for worse, that is the episode you know now, I think that I probably would not have done something so big. I probably would have kept it small and I would have kept it more about ordinary kids in ordinary circumstances. But I was very proud of that episode. I mean, watching it back, it's you can tell the difference of when we get to that episode, when we get to the back nine, all of a sudden, there is this Shakey's shift. But that episode is phenomenal, is good, so good, and you all those things that you were just talking about. The entire episode feels like that feeling of that straight kid tearing up that cassette and having the juxtaposition of it meaning so much to one group of people than having this other group completely not get it and fight against it because other people are enjoying it, right, and you feel that do the whole thing. I mean it kind of mirrors like the Actuality Too, which you directed, which we just watched as well. It feels similar. Yes, wow, it's all about the Gagay thing happened because of you guys, because and started a really wonderful relationship that I have with her to this day. But I remember there was a real generational divide between us. You guys were young and very current, and you were the first person to talk to me about Twitter, the first person to talk about Lady Gaga. You had been on some press tour. I think she had been there or you were we were on an MTV show with her, But you talked about her and how unique and strange, and I remember Kevin saying, I think you would like her. She's very unusual or something. Well yeah, yeah, so, but in that she was wonderful. But the thing about the tribute episodes were interesting because they did have a life of their own. And for me, I will tell you, like, the most validating thing was from the kid who had his Madonna because set ripped out by the straight bro. Then to direct that episode, and then for it to be such a highly rated episode, and then for I think the album hit number one, the Madonna album that we did that accompanied the episode. Yeah, it was just very sort of a big full circle moment for me where I also love moments where I get to say to people who I loved, like Madonna or Barbra Streisan or Stevie Nicks or on and on and on Gaga, like just to say thank you. You know, I'm a fan and I always did that show specifically the music from a place of fandom. But you said it was it felt impossible, like Madonna felt impossible? What about it was so scary to you? Because for us, like you know, and to your credit, like we didn't feel that fear, Like we just felt like, okay, right, as good as we're doing this, like this is awesome. We don't know behind the scenes of how do you get her to agree, how do you get the catalog? And then how right? Well I had worked with her before, which is a great story, which is my beginning of my career. Was Madonna? Really I had just sold a script to Steven Spielberg called why can't I be Audrey? Hepburn. That was the first script I ever wrote, really and he bought it, which you know, and then I was thrust into this on the cover of the Trades and all this stuff, and I would have these amazing weekly tutorials with Steven Spielberg about this is how you write a script and you should be thinking about this a very bizarre way of introduction to the business. And it got a lot of publicity, not because of me, but because of that title, like it was just a great title. Yeah. Yeah. So the next thing I know, I got a call from this guy at Lake Shore, a lovely guy named Tom Rosenberg, and he said, hey, I'm doing this producing this movie with Rupert Everett and Madonna. And you used to be a journalist, didn't you. And I said I was and he said, but you're now a screenwriter and I said, I'm trying to And he said, well, I'm looking for somebody who could interview Madonna about her life and her views and put those feelings into the script. And he said will you do it? And I said, well, what does that mean? And he said, I want you to go to New York for a couple months, once a month, and I want you to sit with the tape recorder and talk to her about her life and then put that into the next draft of the script. So I was like what I was absolutely couldn't say quick yes enough and actually would have done it for free. Yeah, And this was Ray of Light Madonna. This was like wow, this was like nineteen ninety eight. It was her world and we're all living in it. Yeah. So I flew to New York and this is a true story that no one ever believes me and the elevator ride up to meet Madonna for the first time with Tom. He turned to me and said, I forgot to ask you when is your birthday? And I said what? And he said when is your birthday? And I said I'm November ninth, and he goes, are you a scorpio? I said yeah, and he goes, you can't tell that to her because she won't hire you. And I said, what do you mean? He said, I don't know, but just don't say you're a scorpio. Say you're something else. So lo and behold, I meet her. She's lovely. The last question is when we were born? And I gave her my mother's birthday of September third, and she said, oh virgo, okay, that's my mom's birthday. Oh yeah, Wow, We're connected deeply, Kevin, I got By the time we got down to the lobby, it came word that I was hired. So I had this incredible five or six month period where I'd flied to New York. I would be ushered into a beautiful room in her home. I would sit under this amazing Tamera did them pinkup painting, and she would come out smelling like Pachuli oiled with her drowned world hair, and she would sit and I would talk. So I had this great experience with her. And I cannot say enough good things about Madonna, how nice she was. I never understood the scorpio thing, and maybe it was a joke between them, but it was funny, and she was so cool and kind. And I asked her very first personal questions about her life and her childbirth because that was the point of the show. So I did a draft and Tom loved it. The next thing I know is Rupert Everett read the draft and was like, this is supposed to be a two hander, and I feel the entire thing is now about Madonna's character. So I was I had got to help Tom and Rupert and Madonna work and choose the director, which was John Slessinger who directed Midnight Cowboys. So I was like this young punk and I never understood why they were saying, well, who would you hire? I was like John Slessinger. So anyway, I was systematically after that draft fired from that project. And I think some of it that Madonna's yoga teaching stuff made it into the movie. But she was kind and wonderful. So when I came up with this idea to do the tribute jumping ahead to Glee, I had had an experience with her and I knew her manager, Guy Osiri, a little bit, so I called him and said, I have a really crazy idea and it's a real leap of faith because to do it, I just need permission and I can't really be told which songs to choose, But will you? Asked Madonna if we can do a tribute episode to her, which was kind of the first so it was kind of whoever was going to be that person was going to have to take a leap of faith and give me the rights to your catalog and let me record an album, and let let me interpret your music the way that we want to ask ask for a show that also was, like you said, it was building in success every week, like the numbers. We've been tracking the numbers too, where it still wasn't gigantic, but it was getting it was getting substantially bigger every single week. When you're asking one of the biggest artists of all time, have free reign of everything. Yeah, And so he asked her, and much to my surprise, until she said yes. And I think the reason she said yes was because she I don't know that she'd watched the show or knew that much about it. I think she was aware of it, and I think when it was explained to her that these were kids who were in a show choir dance group thing, it's kind of touched a nerve for her because she had come up in that world. You know, she had gone to in Michigan, um kind of a she was a dancer, so I think she she had a real appreciation for kids making it and trying to do it. So then that's how I got the rights, and I was I could not believe it actually, and from Madonna's generosity and kindness came so many other people, Paul McCartney, you know, Barbara Stratt, just Legends and Gaga. Um So that started our absolutely insane tribute series. And you asked, how did I pick the songs? I don't really remember. I remember, you know, you start with, like, okay, who were the characters. There was a story, there was the there was the Leah Corey story, there was the um um, well, I love the thing that the person who was the world's biggest Madonna fan was Susol Faster, which I thought would be absolutely true. So that was kind of the jumping off points. Yeah, and I but it was so much fun to write, and um, I think we really did shoot our first draft. I mean the fun thing about it was I did a Madonna boot camp for Brad and Ian and tried to explain to them my obsession with Madonna. And then we've wrote the script and that was it, and and then we were thinking of well, who could direct it? And I remember Brad saying, You've got to be kidding, You're like nobody else understand how to do with this. And then I loved the challenge of there's one shot that I was rewatching the episode in anticipation of this wonderful meeting with you too. And there was one shot that I remember Leah and Corey were running down the hallway singing and they passed like the ten different Madonna. That's what I want to have been dying to ask you about this. Please explain all of that. It made absolutely no sense, but it was so. It was cinema, Ryan, that was cinema was cinema. It was the thing I loved about her that she meant so much to me and continues to mean so much to me, which is that she never got pigeonholed and she changed. And I really wanted to do that in my career, and I really kind of had tried, and I think I have done it, which is always doing the opposite thing nobody expects you to do whatever. So I wanted to pay tribute to the quality in her that I love the most, which was all of these different looks and in a very short amount of time. So when you see that there's like ten people in these different I think I even did it. Who's that girl? Shout out with the bowler? And like I was nutty And I remember Lou and I the costumer spending hours trying to figure out our favorite Madonna looks. And she had a say in that too, and I love that was so much fun, the two of you being able to talk about your favorite Madonna looks. Yeah, it was fun and it was a real tribute, and so we shot it and did it, and it to this day has one of the most fun things that I've ever done, which is directing Jane Lynch almost in a side by side in comparison beat by beat tribute to Madonna in Vogue, which Jane won the Emmy Award I think for that episode. So um, that was nuts and I don't and again an example of the show really like we had not done something like that before, and it was kind of looking back, I'm glad I did it. Should I have done it? Probably not, but you know, who knows. But I wanted it to beat beat by beat and Zach Woodley and I the choreographer, and Chris bath Of the cinematographer, and we had to get permission from the studio to do a black and white segment because you just didn't do that right. Um, some countries wouldn't carry it, or it was just a whole big thing. Um things you don't think about. So we had the video and we had we recreated we looked at it like the Zapruder film, like you know, it was just like constant looking at it, poppying the sets. Yeah, we had Jane check everything we had. Yeah, Madonna was Jane was actually a gigantic Madonna fan as well. She was, and so she was saying how fortunate she got to do that too, like how how cool that is and like what world would you ever get to do something like that? And also, Adam, you give that to change some of the lyrics too, where she got to say will I hate you and things like that, which is crazy, and Madonna had Madonna had to approve that. So again it was me calling Hi, it's me again, and they're like, who is this Will Schuster? What are you talking about? But um, yeah, I remember you guys. I remember everybody in the cast dropping by to watch that being shot. I remember you guys coming by. Oh yes, um we had to Yeah, it was. It was really kind of an amazing thing. And you know, Jane had said that before the Your show but which I watched or listened to, where she talked about a lot of the props that David Fincher you used in the original Volk video. We found so we got to do all of that um stuff and in a real tribute not only to Madonna but to David Fincher because that that video was still I think the number the best video ever made. And yeah, so we got to do all of that stuff and it was incredible, and also it was incredible that the studio let me shoot that for two days. That was two days of work that was not just okay, we're gonna and it was expensive and then it looked eve it was and it was very st thirty five millimeter and literally we had there was the crazy thing a shot with Jane floating over what looked like a fabric yes, and you know in that so we had to figure out, well, how did how did they do that? And they had Madonna on sort of a like a lever that was supporting her neck from the back and it was like a chiropractor table. So we had to build that and it was all just like a great learning technical experience. I've never done anything so technical. And Jane was a trooper and I take after take, Jane, move your head an eighth of an inch. If we looked at the monitor. Now back, raise your eyebrow, and I would always kind of let her do a take for herself, right, und Dad, out of your system, here's what actually need. Yeah, and we had fun. And about what I remember about it was at the beginning, like we keep talking about, of a feeling of oh, this is going to be people are going to lose their minds when this airs, and they did. It was a really really big rating success. He got nominated and won mini many awards. Jane won the Amy for this. I believe I was nominated for the Director's Guild Award for this episode, which was hilarious to me. And it was just yeah. And then the fun part was we finished. And that was back in the days too, where I would finish a cut and you guys would all come into the editing room which was literally a trailer and I'm sure covering those pestos or something, and it was a trailer. It was okay. I remember it giving I remember giving you snacks, and I remember showing you guys the episode are rough cut of it, Yes, And your reaction was the reaction that people had because it just kept building and building. It was a spectacle. It was nutty. It was about something. I remember shooting the Express Yourself number. How fun was that? That was really fun? And Jenna, I remember you were the only one who could ever do the monocle correctly of it, so if that was a big thing for me and I kept and then I remember you kept getting it right and everyone else was like, oh my god, it flew a wreck get people in the face. You were a dancer and you knew how to keep your shoulders. I don't know, but you were the thank you, thank you MVP with the monocle, the monocle actor as we called it. Yeah, yeah, we in our episodes we have best performances and best you know, superlatives, and we do the best performance by a prop and the monocle one for that was there's a lethal weapon. It was it really also just you know, doing it. It just made you you know, I think that's another moment we're doing Express Yourself and I remember the boys were directed to kind of be bored and kind of look off, and you guys were anything but you know, And that was also the beginning of something on the show where people would show up to watch those numbers, like we should built the auditorium and people all over the Paramount lot would show up. That was one of those days and one of those challenges because it was like, how can we be miserable during this The girls are kicking ass good and it was so good and the constance was hard. Yeah, every number was full of joy and excitement for us to get to do in every department. That's what it felt like. And I could tell that because you guys really put yourself into it and not even watching it. It has a level of energy from the actors that was new to watch because you could tell that you were also doing an in tribute to Madonna in some weird way, I felt, and everybody loved it. Everybody, even Corey loved it, like you know, yes, I loved the loved the tribute to her and the energy and thought it was about shit crazy what we were doing. And I mean there are so many numbers in it too, it's like, what was your did you have a favorite? You know. The other thing the pressure of doing this because at that point we knew that the artists a lot of the time responded to what we did in the episode. So I think knowing that Madonna was probably going to see it. It seemed unlikely, there's no way, but I was going to see this. But we also knew like if I sing this, I have to like do it's because she will probably I can't butcher what it feels like for a girl, right, yeah, I don't know when she thought, but my favorite number honestly was and maybe it's because we did it on tour, maybe because it has like nostalgia and sentimental feelings now, but like a prayer, right, like those numbers, it's like the feeling that I get that I remember doing with such joy and like Amber's mom being in the choir on stage with us and just like you're like just dance, you know, just like go, and that that to me is like what emulated the US, you know, as a as a group of new directions. But then also like I mean ray of Light when you have like people on stilts, it's like it's crazy, it's crazy. It was crazy, and those to remind me you were just saying what it feels like for a girl. That's such a beautiful arrangement. I mean, I think Anna Mandrew's did incredible arrangements throughout that whole episode. I thought it was really bold that you picked that song because it was not one of her biggest songs, but it was one of her the video being controversial, shocking her having a controversial video, and how you used it in having the sort of gender reverse perspective singing it was really powerful. Yeah, I only chose songs in that episode that meant something to me. Again, that feeling of what it feels like for our girl you could put what it feels like for a blank. Yeah, And it reminded me of me in college getting the single ripped apart, you know, like the cruelty of the world sometimes and how hard it is to be a woman or to which I think has changed so much. But you know, yeah, I was those songs were personal to me and I think you can tell. And but yeah, there was the moment of reckoning where I had to send it to her to watch because I do believe that the only caveat that they had was if she didn't like something. You know, she gave me complete freedom, but if she didn't like something, she politely said, I would like to have a discussion about it if it rubs me the wrong way, Because these are my songs, these are my children, my life and I said yes. So again throughout the entire process, I cannot express to you how kind she was about it and open about it, and then when she saw it even more kind and open. She didn't have a note, she didn't ask for anything to be changed. She loved it. She um wow. She was so supportive of it that at one point I thought I was being punked or like, really, this cannot be real. And then she put out a press release I believe the day the show aired, saying how much she supported it and what the show was about and doing for the world, and that her doing that at that moment in time also made the show be further recognized because a lot that letter got so much attention and that set the standard. Also like, okay, if we do a tribute episode part of the gig as you, we hope you like it enough to say something nice but right. And then the album hit number one. That was a big thing for me that I wanted her to get as a tribute from us to her, which happened. I remember getting a call from Jeff Bywater about you hit number one kid, yeah, smoking. So it was just all a Nutti Nutti Nutti experience. And then things were different in every way on that show. Yeah, how we need it, had the amount of money we were given to make it, how people viewed it. How in many cases things that I did in that episode that really were nuts and went off the rails um kept happening, you know, And I think in a different world it would um it would not probably have gone so crazy. And then you know, there was also the creative difficulty of well how do you top that? And we kept trying to top and top and top it with um right with Gagay, with Britney Spears, with Michael Jackson. The Michael Jackson episode is the one I believe that made both of you lose your minds or something happened around that time. Yes, we you survived, you did. I made it. You made it. And also I remember, didn't you guys walk off the set? Wasn't weren't we shooting something in a parking garage that went nutty? We didn't walk off. We didn't shoot something in a parking garage and had that was crazy because technically speaking, we had no time to rehearse in the parking garage and we were using an actual parking garage on the Paramount lot. So we don't wait for all the employees to leave, and so we would poor Zach Woodley would take whoever was in that section of the dance and we would sort of just map it out and shoot it as we were going, So we never rehearsed the whole thing. We could just do it bits. How did that happen? Why is that? Why did that happen? I think we were behind I think shooting that day already and then whenever Zach got us, it was so late that the crew was then moving over already, and you know, it was one of those technical things where you have to wrangle eighty of us, change us, redo our everything. This was when Sebastian was getting hit with rocks in the slushy and that was Gran Augustine and I believe at this time this is when I lost my mind a little bit. I wasn't there for the second part of Michael, but we were shooting two episodes at the same time, I believe, and that's why I was in some of Michael and not in the second half of Michael. We were doing what episode was before Saturday Night Fever, if I maybe correct, it was the one with Saturday Night fever. At the end of the episode, we're all inmost white suits. I don't remember what it was, but we were doing two at once and crossing over and then I think Bad was like a night shoot and we went in and like you'd be like, car Well, that's also funny to talk about that episode and Madonna, because you know, my life changed between those times, right right. I was very, very, very very you know, we've talked about this, but I was very very in that show the first two years, really really in it, and then I had a baby, and then American Horror Story happened, and then I sort of went to having a bigger overall deal with more responsibilities and more development, and yeah, it was it was a much different world. And I do think the the now, it just seems like the idea that we did twenty two episodes a year of a musical is insane. How was that even allowed to happen? The schedules, like you know now you would do if you would do twelve, and I would say that's too much, But you know, there was no there was no protection for any of us. It was hard on you. I remember it was incredibly difficult with the writing because it was three of us doing it, and so many nights we'd be at the Chateau of Marmat in the lobby until the wee hours, like really struggling and how do we feel up these episodes? And it became you know, and then it became such a business that um and people wanted more, more of it, and the world wanted more of it at that point, So you know, the philosophy of my career has always been asked me, what my favorite word is, Kevin, what's your favorite word? Ryan? Yes, my favorite word is yes, because I always was like, yes, yes, I'll do more, Yes, I'll yes, we'll do because you never think that you're from Yes come as many joys. And at that point I felt like such a minority in the business and so lucky to be there, and thinking, well, this is never going to happen again, so sure we'll do a tour. Sure, why not? Like I just kept wanting to be a people pleaser and Um, looking back now, I mean that period of the Madonna episode, followed by all those awards, followed by that tour, we were grumbling about it, but I mean it was really one of the best times in my life. I was special to get to do that. I don't think we're sling yet. I don't think that we were quite there yet. Oh I was. I remember being like, I can't, I can't the scripts, like how do I do twenty two of a musical? Right? And then three of you doing that? Is that's crazy. I don't know how the three of you could write to you two full seasons just the three of you. How do you tune out like the pressure or do you not? Or did you feel or how do you tune out now? Like the pressure of like what the fans want when they went the expectation? Yeah? Um, yeah, that was That was that. That show was a learning curve in so many ways because it was also we've spoke about this privately, but it was sort of like me um at the beginning. You know, I felt very much like everybody else. I was working for a company, you know, I didn't feel like your boss. I felt like we were having fun. I was your peer. Yeah. You know, not only was I writing some of them a lot a lot of them with the guys, but I was directing a lot of them. And these are the days where I would go to every dance rehearsal yeah, I would go to every you know, cost him fit. I was so involved, and it was I felt so much pressure because who knew that this little fun thing that we did, that we did for us in a bubble would become such a worldwide success. And it was a worldwide success. So it was I've never had anything culturally bigger than that at that moment in time. And then you know what had started to happen was it was Niah who introduced me to the wonderful world of social media, which, in a weird way was like, Oh my god, why did I do that? She helped set up my Twitter account and she tweeted, now you something like now you all be nice to him, or I'm gonna get you or something funny. Remember that, And I remember you guys were like, I really don't know if you have the stomach to be but you guys loved it because you were young, and it was like and stand feedback and they were nice to you. Those first two seasons, I think we were the most tweeted about TV show in the world. Yeah, I'm sure. And then you know, I would start to read the tweets from the fans and I'm like, oh, they want X to be with why they want they don't they don't like what we're doing. Okay, well I will serve that. So then we became you know, then we started to service the relationships, probably not from an organic place, but from a fan place, which is the kiss of death, which I learned you can never do. And then you know, and now there's just rules in my life that I follow. I don't read reviews. I don't read what people say about the shows. I don't um. I don't let that into my head because I'm writing it first and foremost for me. And I remember we were encouraged by the company to have tweet parties and actively engage with the fans and try so that was that was a young learning curve for corporations too. Yeah, where they were like, yeah, like make the fans for like more people will watch. So yes, that probably was true. But yeah, I mean I had in the second year of the show, particularly it was dark, I had death threats. I had to get security. I had people showing up at my door. You guys, remember that the people showing up at the door upset about something that happened with Brittany and Santana. Somebody with a knife and the cops came and it was just it was just out of control and it was scary, and so I quickly learned, yeah, don't do that, and I don't do that anymore. And now my rule is Glee was written in a very place of love. You know, when people talk about their parents, their parents get divorced, but you were born of love when you were conceived. You should know even though mom and dad got a divorce, we loved you in that moment you were made. That's how I felt about Glee, because that's what it was, particularly us first two years. I'm until my life changed and yeah, and then you know, I couldn't. I was torn into many directions both from my family and my work obligations and what I was trying to accomplish. And I also felt driven to do more that put more things like whatever whatever you want to call the Madonna episode. It had a queer sensibility, it was and I wanted to do more things like that, for more more shows with more people. And so then that became a driving force in my life to sort of leave the world in a different place than it was when I came in. Again, the kid you had the madonnaa single ripped apart. So everything just changed and you got there. You know, I'm as busy and hard as it was, I guess saying yes all the time. But by doing that, you did build yourself into a position to get to put queer stories and queer media on so different networks with several different TV shows concurrently, So you know, you built this empire. You know, to circle back to what the kil Burnett Award is about, and what your speech was about was to put to give spotlight to underserved communities and groups, because you know what that personally feels like. And so I mean, it seems like with Glee you were able to see how hungry people were for that and how when given the opportunity to see themselves people appreciated it. And so then you got to I mean, and you did amazing things as well after or you made sure women in the workplace, women got to direct and got to shadow directors on your shows. Yeah, so behind the scenes, you immediately even you must have been exhausted, you had a family, you had eight billion shows, but you still were, you know, making time to make sure that other people. It was sort of like the Oprah model. If I come up, everybody else gets to come up to give you know, to help the people below come up to meet you. Otherwise, I mean I did feel I did try and do that, and I also wished, you know, I feel like coming on your show is great because it's like therapy sessions where we can really but I wish I wish some of it. I never would have changed some of it. I would have changed, like, um, a lot of stuff that was going on. It had become such a business and like you're talking about shooting in a garage with cars coming and no time to rehearse, and I'm like, how did that? How was that allowed to happen? I wasn't front and center at the show at that moment in time, and I don't think that should have happened. I think we were doing it. I wish that there had been more time and um, things put into like how are you feeling? How is your mental health? Like you said you had a moment Jen like, of course you did. We all did. But but but back then there was no conversation. You never could do that because then they'd be like, Okay, well, I remember hearing us story about a showrunner who the pressure was so bad that he went missing for three days and they found him in a car. He had had a nervous breakdown and he was in a car shaking uncontrollably. And I remember reading that and thinking I know that, feeling yeah, I really do get that. The pressure of, you know, show business, it's a show, but it's also a business was just really too much to take on. And it's I don't think there's any There's never been another show like Glee that was like this multiheaded hydra where you're a TV show, but you're also a stage show, and you're also a soundtrack business, and you're also a merchandise business, like and big in each of those departments, not just like phoning it in, big in every sector like that. Yes, And it got so nutty that at one point I got a call about doing a Glee Haunted House thing at Universal something for Halloween. And I was like, well, this this is really insane. The show has nothing to do and you want to make it a horror show. And then I thought, you know what, I should have done that, like, how fun for all of you guys to be amazing they wanted to do. It was around the time of the the the much maligned Heads, Will Rolls, Zombie Number Glee, Dead with Knives, and our I guess I don't know, but only this certain group of us who have been through that experience will ever know what it was like. And yeah, but also I would like to say about the Madonna thing, like I never had more fun ever doing any piece of work other than the pilot, I think for me and um, it was just such a joy and a privilege to be and it was a it was a privilege to do it, to make it. You know, Jenna and I talked about us crazy and big as that episode was when we tell people about how good you are as a director, because I think people you're a known media brand and personality, but as a director, you're so good. And there's that scene and as crazy as that episode was, there's a scene where it's Jenna and I talking at the piano after Larretie has said some very questionable showing a stick things to her and we walk in the choir room to block it, and you go, no, no, no, this doesn't work, because you know there was supposed I was to Lynn we were moving yeah, and you go, no, this isn't right. At all and you stop and you were just quiet for like twenty thirty seconds, like staring off to the distance, and you go, Okay, here's what we're going to do. And you took over the floor and you rewrote the scene in real time, and you go, Kevin, you're here, Jenna, you sit there and you're gonna say this. You're gonna say this, You're gonna that, You're gonna say that. It was the craziest thing I've ever seen. I do remember that we started doing it and then I remember everyone was like, oh, thank god, yeah, oh, the scene is great now. And it was so quiet. We were so silent, there was nothing else going on. And it was a real a really important learning moment for me, and getting to work with you to see how you worked that, and also getting to act and learning how to act better. And I think the brilliance of being able to think on your feet and rewrite a scene and make it even ten times better than it originally was supposed to be was remarkable. It's a really crazy thing to see. Yeah, well, I don't know I feel that about you know, I don't direct anymore, but I've kind of retired from that. But I did love it when I was doing it, and my rule about it was always you know that that phrase, if someone shows you who they are, believe them. And I feel that way about scenes, so you know, we can write it. And then I'm a collaborator with you guys, and I remember that you were really trying to pay tribute to the script and the script was wrong. So it was like, well, if, okay, this has now been revealed to us that this scene sucks, so what do we do? And we I do remember just sitting there and thinking, you know, you two are so talented that there's just too much in your way and what is really what is really the scene about? And when I do lectures or anything for young people, I would say, when you direct, you only need to know three things. You need to know how do you get into this scene, what's your first moment, what's your transition, how do you get out of the scene, what's the last beat? And the most important thing is the tone. What do you want to feel from this scene? And what the three of us came up with was a feeling and then it was just very boom boom boom bom boom, and it was it was and I always feel in service to that, and I also feel very in service to actors because I feel scripts are blueprints and sometimes it was something that you write is absolutely Oh, it's like building a house. This is perfect. But then sometimes you're making a room and you're like, this room is terrible. Why so it's in the architecture. You have to go back and do it. But I do remember that day. I also remember that day. You probably don't remember this, but it was raining so hard and that we had to do one takeover because that we had that crazy roof above the choir room and it was a sound thing. Yeah, so I remember thinking wow about that. I have such a memory of that moment in time. I also remember that I was smoking cigarettes that yes, and Zach Woodley and I would go between. That was my reward if I got a scene right, we'd take I called it smoga smoking in yoga. Yeah. But it was such a vivid time in my life and that that idea, and also just the craziness that I thought I could say this doesn't work, Okay, let's do it without calling the studio or people who would have proved the script, like the use of me to do it. But well, I mean they'd picked you up for a back nine and said we want more of you. So yeah, they did, and I felt very like I was just becoming who I was supposed to become after when I could, was just beginning to show people what I could do, as you two were, as the cast was, so it was all that show was the beginning for so many people and about so many things. Yeah, well I'm glad, I'm glad you liked my directing you guys, thank you? Oh yeah, now we did. Every time you would come in, it was like you knew exactly what you wanted. We made our days. It was clear it felt good when you walked away. I think as an actor a lot of the time like they're like they directors put so much trust than their actors, which is amazing, but there's also a sense of like leadership that has to be driving the ship. And like we knew if when you came in, we were like, this episode it's gonna be great. It's going to be cos if it's going to be streamlined, and I'm going to feel good walking away because we know you're going to get out of us what you want and like, you know, always be like Gena bigger, gena bigger the hair tip flips the things, and it's I look crazy, but it's funny, like it's it's what it's supposed to be, right, and that as an actor is always like God, it feels so good to walk away from something and feel good about your work. Yeah. I always tried to do on that show was to the idea that I would say more, bigger, more bigger, like some crazy fashion photographer. But I really wanted all of you, particularly in that first season, to show what you could do the most and not the least of you. Yeah. It didn't want you to feel edited, and I didn't want you to feel small, and I didn't want you to feel constricted. And I think you can feel that and that those first two seasons, it was people were allowed to be the best of you, the worst least of you. Yeah. You coming in after a couple episodes, you go, I'm over this nerdy thing. We gotta and you would push me to get out of this, like the nerdy thing. I was like, Okay, he's giving me permission. I guess I need to like, yeah, I can change it up, Okay, So like more important than even the making of that episode, for me was the camaraderie and the making of it. Like what I really really loved about that and every time I directed was you know, it was fun to do and I loved it. But I the thing that I treasure and will take to my grave that was it will make me emotional. Was like the moments, like when we were doing something nutty like that, and I remember after that rehearsal, it's a change, and you know then it took a while to get the lighting fixed and change the thing. And so we would just sit off in another room and those horrible director's chairs would throw our backs up and we would just talk and eat, and there was that weird craft service room and it was it was really a rainy season in LA that year, and I just remember we would all hang out and just talk and talk and talk and laugh, and I would see you guys do things in your real life, and I remember thinking, how funny you know you were, Kevin. So I remember saying, we'll just be more like that, or Jenna the same, just be more of the thing that makes you a sparkly person. And that would not have come unless we were all so close and hanging out and joking singing like I can remember you two also always knew what the the hot tunes worth the time finger on the pulse. You know, you're not the only tastemaker out I wasn't and I don't know how it runs. We would do that, um Amber and I would have a lot of fun with her teaching me how to do the runs. And also like I remember you guys turning me onto so much music. Yeah, it's like yeah, like I don't really think I was familiar with the artists known as Genuine and his Hip Pony and so you're welcome. We were thank you until we would be off camera You're like, hey, listen to this and I'm sorry. But some there were weren't people still having like Sony Walkman's then with the with the CDs in it and stuff, and like it was such a long time. They were like the little the little iPods. It was like without first generation Ipodsay iPods, Sony Walkmans. What can I say, I'm older than you? Really fun? Yeah, that was what all those Madonna stories, I had no idea. Did you have any This is the last time I will talk about her, But you have any other Madonna fun facts you want to know. No, did you have you seen her since? Like, have you seen her in person or talk to her since? Um? I had of Again, have you talked about did the episode come up at all? No? So far removed. Madonna is not someone whom I think looks towards the past, gat I mean, which is why her going on tour? All right? Right? Are you gonna go see it? Are you kidding? Of course? And I'm also gonna go to Taylor Swift And I'm I'm very excited about my my Beyonce. I mean, they're all going on tour. I'm going, I know together, that's gonna Beyonce together. I will pay for the tickets because I will die. I am so excited. I'm going to try to go as many times as I've seen her six times already. You've seen Beyonce six times? Yes, I've seen her six times. I went with Gwyneth Knew. I was so obsessed once and she brought me once and I heard he's seen the tour. I'm like, I'll go with you. And then she was late and I showed up to the suite and it was me and jay Z by ourselves for like twenty minutes, and I stood in a corner and didn't speak anyone because I was so scared. You were scared. Why He's so lovely, He's so nice, and I had met him before, but I just really felt like, I'm not supposed to be here. This is Beyonce's family's sweet. You know, she's another one. She was so Beyonce. She was so kind about the show. She gets permission for all of those songs. She was so supportive and sweet. And I had not met her. She's so nice, except I did run into her once, and like what happened was I was at I was in a doctor's office and they were like to get some sort of like vitamin shot, and they were like go down, turn left, and turn to the turn, and so I didn't know what I was doing, and it was like, you know, it was one of those places with hushed music and candles and everyone spoke like this. And I opened up a door and literally lit like an angel. Was Beyonce getting an ivy drip of vitamins. And I was so startled that I just turned the door and I'm like Hi. She's like HI, Like nice to meet you. She's like it's great to meet you. What are you here for I think I'm doing what you're doing. It's okay, great, and it was just you get to meet your idols, you know, and she and usually you know, the big ones are the nice ones. Yeah, you don't being a complete asshole? No, exactly. No. When she you know, she has a reputation with Madonna, I think of being, you know, tough, but I will say again, in the process of working with her, always the most kind, the most generous, really nice. And then I've had some fun, fun um moments with her that you know. Yeah, she's she's a force. Yeah, well, let's go see Beyonce together. I'll go to Taylor with you. I'll go to Taylor. Okay, great, what song do you want to hear the most of these concerts? I want to hear Renaissance from start to finish. That's all I want. That's what you're looking for. Yeah, mastermind, I want to hear Lavender Hayes. I want to hear I want to hear her whole Midnight album. I'm very excited about it, very I'm very excited about that Midnight's album too. I love it. I love her. Yeah, I think all of these women, you know, with what they're doing with their music and how they're you know, influencing women and gay people in other minority groups. It's incredible, Um, you know, for a long period of time, like they're not just flashes in the pan there. But how lucky that you guys get so many of them. You know, I had was Madonna, that was it. She was the only one, which makes her um yeah, what she had to do to right through the system and win and right. So that's what so our summer's planned apparently, Yeah, Taylor Swift and then we're doing Beyonce and then we'll do Maddonna. Yeah right. I'm really happy for us. This is really working. I have one last question for you guys, because since from from you know, I'm very proud of you that your your show you're doing is the cultural gatekeepers of Glee. So I think I've listened to them, and I love them, and I think what you do. What I love is you talk about the positive things about the show yeah, um, and the legacy of the show. But have you guys all as a cast internally, what are your feelings about a reboot like or because you know, what do you how do you what do you think about that should we do it or should we not do it? Or should should it be left alone? Why should ask you? Ryan? Are you toying with this? Are you playing with this in your head? Well? I get asked about it all the time. Do you want to do it? Everybody's been asking that now everybody wants to you know, it's an interesting thing, and um, I think what does that look like to you? I think is the biggest thing? You know? Is it is? I mean, it's it's a format that works in a way where you can take all new people in a different city, in a different state, you know, and show the underdogs and the outcasts and do the same thing. Is it bringing back all the old people who are teachers or something? I don't know. I think it depends on what it is. I think the legacy of the show. Now, what's tough about bringing shows back is does it feel like you're hurting what has already been accomplished or tarnishing whatever? But anything you do I think is great, So I don't you're the mastermind. As Taylor Swift said, Yeah, that's funny that they played that song when I was walking on stage to get that award, which I thought was absolutely hilarious. You know what they wanted to they wanted they wanted to hilariously. They wanted to do um walk, have me walk on. They wanted to play Don't rain on My Prey, And I was like, absolutely burst into gay flames. I can't have that happen. And so they did that as a joke, and I think that she cleared it and sweetly said yes. And so when I heard it, I was like, is this mastermind? You can see in my face? I was walking at under the stage where they thought was that they were making fun of me in a lovely way. But she was sweet to say yes and yeah, But I don't know. I'm of two minds. You know, first of all, you talk about they can't say anything worse than has already been said, so that's off the table. And it also was like the thing that I love about the show now is there are people watching it. They're you know, it's streaming everywhere, and there are people watching it. Young people, my children's age ten, eight nine, who have no knowledge at all of anything we all went through. They only see the very pure work. And somebody told me that their daughter last Halloween went as go Chier Madonna because she had watched the Glee episode of Madonna, and I thought, well, how amazing is that? So those are the things to think about, like it's the work that lasts and all. I never have believed that, by the way, but in this case, I do think it's true. Like it's it's a feeling and they can feel it and it teaches them about something, And part of me feels like, well, wouldn't it be great to do another run of that show and do a lot of other songs that artists pay tribute to things? And how fun would that be? Yeah? I mean, the show's been off what for eight years? There's so much more music too, and I'm like, oh my god, we would have done that in the day. There's just so many What do you think we would have done? Because I have my ideas, I know two things we would have done and would have been we I'm not so sure that would have been good. We would have done Hamilton, yes, is the school musical? Definitely Hamilton or Dear Evan Hansen. Um. We definitely would have done a Taylor uh tribute tribute and maybe a Beyonce tribute since we've done so much Beyonce but like a proper tribute. Um, we almost did a Taylor tribute, which was we had to change it because I couldn't get, you know, the permission. But remember when Chord had it was originally going to be he was going to form a band called the Taylor Swift Experience. That's right, Yes, that then became I couldn't get the rights to everything and do it in the way that I wanted. Then became the John Mayer Experience. John Mayer was like, I don't know if I want to do that yet. I don't even remember what did it end up being? Justin Bieber? Justin Bieber's right. It's also funny, is Chord is good friends with both of them John Mayer and Taylor spid So said yes, so it was kind of fun. Right. What what would we have done that wouldn't have been good? Right? Well, I mean we did we doubt I'm not that it would have been good. Would have been you know, we definitely would have done a Taylor Swift tribute, particularly now because you know the thing about those tribute episodes is there they were you have to have a sort of visual, iconic flair. Yeah, so, um right, I just I just know that Tina would have sung Lavender Hayes. I just God, bless you, let's do bring it back and I'm ready. And for Kevin, I would have had to have done a Beyonce tributal. That we did several Beyonce songs, I mean between Kevin and Namber were good. Yeah, I don't know. We probably would have done. The thing about the show that's so weird is you know I did my cultural things so um. The school musical was the Rocky Horror Picture Show. As a kid, I wanted to do Rocky Horror Picture Show. The very idea that we did something connected to rumors and Saturday Night fever. Your age were like, what is this? But the joy of that is like the Madonna episode when we did the Fleetwood Mac tribute. You know, that album relaunched on the charts and a whole new generation of people got to see it. So yep, yes, it was quite well, that's like the gift that keeps on giving even you know, like I remember for Journey like that was Don't Stop like was right behind us on the charts as well, when our Don't Stop was up, you know, at number one, And that was another thing I was told not to do. I mean, there were so many things I was told not to do, but that was one song people like, don't do that. The sopranos just did that I talked about. But he then showed up yep, right, and he was there and we got to meet him, and that a surreal special Yeah. Yeah, it's funny now because if you do look. Sometimes I don't read things, but people will send me, like fan site or whatever, roundups of like the seventy five best Glee songs ever, and then it's fun to click through them because they're just one person's opinion to see like, well, what's number what's in the top ten? Right? And it always moves, that always changes. It's never constant from year to year, for sure. And except don't stop believe that always this number one, because like, could you not do that? Right now? I don't know. The reboot is interesting. It's like there's like a feeling that's like I think a lot of people would do it and be a part of it. And what is it that we want to say? Right? What is it that people want to say after all this time? Which I think is important in thinking about it. If there were even an option, right, if there's something that you were thinking about doing, but like, yeah, it would be difficult. But if I did do it, you know, I would want to take it back to the feeling of right the first year, I don't think I would do you know, Outland just tributes right off the bat, although I thought what mister Shoe did or Jane's character Sue did as a learning curve, was like, well, that's a really good instruction. That's a good lesson for kids to like, that's great. Like so it was it was about something, right, so I could see doing it. It would It would. I don't know when or how or why, but no, for sure, everybody's asking about it. That was so funny because there's so many reboots out there. Party's cousin, you know, cousin. Do you too think that you've you've left Ohio? I would, first of all, I would pretend that the last episode, whatever happened, everybody was like not yeah, just yeah, it's dam it was a future dream. Do you two think that your characters are still in Ohio? No, I think we got I think Tina got out. Yeah, where did they go? Well, Tina and to Brown, So I think she got some You know, like she got a little excited and then she became some crazy CEO of some you know, startup company and yeah, you know, travels East West. And I think I would imagine that Tina had like had become like some sort of businesswoman tycoon like Bethany Franklo with her own like mart tales. Absolutely think that. Yeah, And I'm just going to say it. I think her company is called Sober Curious and it's just still a line of effervescent non alkohol ers. And I also think that Tina, who had so much style, like lives like a baller. And I think she's in real good shape. Oh yeah, absolutely, Architectural Digest every other month, and and she looks back on that time when she had a goth phase. I remember that goth phase. I had what I did kill it my steampunk. Yeah. And I think I think Artie is in the music business. Yes, I think, yeah, he's either like an executive in the film or music business. I think for sure he I don't know if you ask me these questions, I'm like, why do I feel he lives in Miami. I would like to see that as Miami. I think there's some Latin music influence that you saw a moment and you went and you and you're connected to Ricky Martin and something's happening. I already signed Bad Bunny, already signed Bad Bunny. That okay, but happen that's great? God, are you talking about it? Like, oh yeah, Ricky Martin was in the show on and on and on, great wonderful people, and yeah you nailed it. Oh man, thanks for spending so much time with us. Yes, of course I'd love to what am I coming back? What episode was the next one to tear apart and discuss and break down. I think the guy, I think the Gaga one would be very very interested to talk to about how that came to be. Yes, let's talk Gaga. What are the other big ones in season two coming? Rocky Horror, love to talk about Bert. Let's see Sylvester shuffle. I mean that was crazy the super Bowl episode. Um, blame it on the alcohol. Oops. I love that one. Born this Way was the Gaga one. That sounds fun. Rumors is right after that we can do maybe we can do back to back, back to mac. We'll do a Born this Way in rumors that's eighteen and nineteen. We also have some fan questions that we can ask you then too. Okay, this is the this is the end, the fan questions. I'm ready, Oh do you want to do some fan questions? Do it hit me great? What was the hardest character to write? The hardest character to write was Sue, But that was Ian Brennan's problem because it was just it was so written in a from his brain context, and I was always so terrified to touch anything because run on sentences, have to run on sentences, and then you'd you'd see Jane do it and you'd be like, oh God, well, of course that was that was the hardest one to write. Um. I also think Mister Shoe was hard to write. I think that I think that mister Shoe has gotten a bad rap um literally, and I think that it was It was hard to be the center of force of a show where you're the moral authority, and sometimes that means that the people are around you were more sparkly and you have to be. But Matt did a great job not doing that. M was Jesse Saint James's name, Jesse Saint James, so Corey could sing Jesse's Girl great. A lot of people ask that, and I mean we knew Jonathan. I had been friends with Jonathan and Leah, and when we decided to come on and we were going to do that thing, we were talking about his name and I'm like, well, obviously it has to be Jesse so that Corey can sing that song. So yes, iconic. Um, if you could go back and change everybody asked this, if you could go back and change any storyline from the show, what would it be. I wouldn't change anything. Um, I would Um, There's nothing I would change there, you know, and no, nothing great. Did an actor ever not like a storyline and ask you to change it? Yes? Did you change it? Yeah? I think so. I mean I still do that to this day. I mean sometimes it got it got a little nuttie there. But if it was a logical reason, like like we talked about how I direct, like, I always feel like, well, tell me what you don't like. Most of you know this character better than I do in some regards, so I would There would always be moments. The one thing about the Glee cast for the most part is people were like, oh, you you want me to do that? Okay, here we go, and then you would just try it. Because some of it was so crazy and nuttie, yes and yeah, true or false? Fun Due for two was a fan idea. You'd have to ask Ian that because he he was connected to that in a way that I wasn't. But as soon as he told me about it, I remember saying, yes, we're doing fun du for two. What would happen if one of the actors got sick and couldn't record the song? Did that ever get up the chain to you? Did you ever have yeah, because you know, we'd have to move scenes around, and it was always you know, we'll get better and we're not doing it and right, yeah, right, there's very rare times that, like Kevin that I remember, like if you were sick, we would just do it and we just record it, and they'd like make us sound good and we'd be like, okay, keep moving. I mean I directed a couple of episodes. I was sick, I had a fever, and you just did it. And then there's last one, last one. It's not a question. She says. I love you, Ryan Murphy, thank you for being a genius and sharing your mind with us. Mister minds so well, thank you. I always love to hear nice things, and I'm so grateful to be able to keep talking about this great experience we had. So thank you too, Ryan, Thank you so so much. Yeah, it's so good to see you, and I'll see you a lot this summer at all of our concert tours. I can't wait our tour, our tour as the beginning. I'm gonna be working on my outfit now. Thanks guys, Thanks Ran, love you bye. Wow wow wow wow. Yeah you said earlier like we could talk forever, like even we know she's a busy lady and yet she's um. I you know, I wish we could to Ryan every week. I know he should be the third the third host of I mean, he is essentially sorry. Yeah, um, thank you again Ryan for doing this, Thank you all for listening. We hope you guys enjoyed it. Apparently we'll have Ryan back again for season two at some point. I love that for us. Talk about rumors, let's talk about lady God, let's talk about all of it. Yeah, thanks for listening. You guys come back next week to recap with us, and we'll have another lovely guest. And that's what you were in the missed. Thanks for listening and follow us on Instagram at and that's what you really miss POD. Make sure to write us a review and leave us five stars. See you next time.