Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an army and normal folks. And we continue now a part two of our conversation with Gabby Larmp, right after these brief messages from our general sponsors. So you go through this craziness, yes, you survive it. It's like it's like one in a million kind of miracle things that both you and Lewis are now healthy and everything else, and you decide, you know, why don't we just go adopt. Also, let's just add some more flavor to this life of ours.

Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an army and normal folks. And we continue now a part two of our conversation with Gabby Larmp, right after these brief messages from our general sponsors. So you go through this craziness, yes, you survive it. It's like it's like one in a million kind of miracle things that both you and Lewis are now healthy and everything else, and you decide, you know, why don't we just go adopt. Also, let's just add some more flavor to this life of ours.

I've only been pregnant one time in my life, and that one time I also had cancer. I was not taking that chance again.

I've only been pregnant one time in my life, and that one time I also had cancer. I was not taking that chance again.

Do you think the pregnancy spurred the cancer?

Do you think the pregnancy spurred the cancer?

Well, no one can tell me this, but you know when you are making a baby, you make a lot more blood in your body. So maybe there's a chance that there was some kind of dormant situation going on in my body, and as my body was making more blood to make the baby, maybe it sparked it.

Well, no one can tell me this, but you know when you are making a baby, you make a lot more blood in your body. So maybe there's a chance that there was some kind of dormant situation going on in my body, and as my body was making more blood to make the baby, maybe it sparked it.

Bit about stressors also, because stressors can be part of that too. Yeah, well yeah, okay, so you're thinking not doing that again, not doing that again.

Bit about stressors also, because stressors can be part of that too. Yeah, well yeah, okay, so you're thinking not doing that again, not doing that again.

We had always wanted to adopt. That was always yes. We both in college had worked in like children's homes in Guatemala and in Costa Rica because our we went to this small university where they were very into like short term mission trips, So it was always like orphan care was always a big thing for us, and we just thought, hey, we always always wanted to adopt, let's just start the process so our kids can be closer in age. Yeah, so we started the adoption process as soon as we could. And about two years.

We had always wanted to adopt. That was always yes. We both in college had worked in like children's homes in Guatemala and in Costa Rica because our we went to this small university where they were very into like short term mission trips, So it was always like orphan care was always a big thing for us, and we just thought, hey, we always always wanted to adopt, let's just start the process so our kids can be closer in age. Yeah, so we started the adoption process as soon as we could. And about two years.

After, you realize that's kind of crazy.

After, you realize that's kind of crazy.

Is does that sound crazy?

Is does that sound crazy?

A little bit? Nuts? Do you a near death experience for both you and your job? Seven months of all of that, you're having to probably restart life now, and said, hey, let's go get a kid.

A little bit? Nuts? Do you a near death experience for both you and your job? Seven months of all of that, you're having to probably restart life now, and said, hey, let's go get a kid.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I guess on the one hand, that's crazy. On the other hand, when you've truly contemplated and stared death in the face, I guess you just want to get on with life too. I mean, right right.

I guess on the one hand, that's crazy. On the other hand, when you've truly contemplated and stared death in the face, I guess you just want to get on with life too. I mean, right right.

When I move forward, we were young. I was twenty six when I had Lewis. By the time we brought Jack home, I was thirty. I mean that's young. Yeah, not even midlife yet. You know, we're ready to get back to normal. That was crazy. We were like, that's we kind of compartmentalized it. That's that's then the we're now new, we're made whole. We're ready to just drink our family.

When I move forward, we were young. I was twenty six when I had Lewis. By the time we brought Jack home, I was thirty. I mean that's young. Yeah, not even midlife yet. You know, we're ready to get back to normal. That was crazy. We were like, that's we kind of compartmentalized it. That's that's then the we're now new, we're made whole. We're ready to just drink our family.

Okay, So here in lies where first of all your whole that whole thing is just insane. But we've often talked about you don't have to be part of some big five OHO one C three to be part of the army of normal folks. You can serve right in your community. And I can't imagine a greater face of service than adopting, because often kids that you don't get adopted as infants end up in austra cair and everything else. So you know, you're making a life for someone who didn't ask to be brought into this world, a much better life than what the other trajectory as a high likelihood would be. So awesome, good for you. So y'all decide to adopt, yes, and tell me how that went?

Okay, So here in lies where first of all your whole that whole thing is just insane. But we've often talked about you don't have to be part of some big five OHO one C three to be part of the army of normal folks. You can serve right in your community. And I can't imagine a greater face of service than adopting, because often kids that you don't get adopted as infants end up in austra cair and everything else. So you know, you're making a life for someone who didn't ask to be brought into this world, a much better life than what the other trajectory as a high likelihood would be. So awesome, good for you. So y'all decide to adopt, yes, and tell me how that went?

Okay, So it was. You know, I thought, after having been praying with cancer, that things couldn't get harder. What could be harder or even difficult? Everything else should be downhill, right right? So we start smooth sale Salem. So we start the process and and I'm green. I'm green to the world. You know. I grew up in a small town so loved. Nothing really bad ever happened to me, like just so safe. My whole life had been safe. And we start this process and I realized there are a lot of people in the world who did not have that, and that was a stark reality for me. And it just made me so thankful for my parents that they protected me and loved me. And that's the best gift to be given.

Okay, So it was. You know, I thought, after having been praying with cancer, that things couldn't get harder. What could be harder or even difficult? Everything else should be downhill, right right? So we start smooth sale Salem. So we start the process and and I'm green. I'm green to the world. You know. I grew up in a small town so loved. Nothing really bad ever happened to me, like just so safe. My whole life had been safe. And we start this process and I realized there are a lot of people in the world who did not have that, and that was a stark reality for me. And it just made me so thankful for my parents that they protected me and loved me. And that's the best gift to be given.

Which is what you're giving a child when you.

Which is what you're giving a child when you.

Adopt them, exactly so, and knowing that we have that love to give, you have to you know. So we start the process with a like private Christian organization that they really care for birth moms and take care of them and give them everything they need and help them find a placement for their baby, or they can choose to keep the baby and not place it if they want to, it's up to them. It's a really neat organization. Bethannye Christian Services is the name of it, and so basically it's like one way online dating. That's funny, you made the profile like online. Yeah, and the prospective birth moms. They get to look through all these families and say, Okay, this family already has kids. I like that, or this family doesn't have kids. I want my kid to be an only child. You know, they get to make these decisions. It's wonderful.

Adopt them, exactly so, and knowing that we have that love to give, you have to you know. So we start the process with a like private Christian organization that they really care for birth moms and take care of them and give them everything they need and help them find a placement for their baby, or they can choose to keep the baby and not place it if they want to, it's up to them. It's a really neat organization. Bethannye Christian Services is the name of it, and so basically it's like one way online dating. That's funny, you made the profile like online. Yeah, and the prospective birth moms. They get to look through all these families and say, Okay, this family already has kids. I like that, or this family doesn't have kids. I want my kid to be an only child. You know, they get to make these decisions. It's wonderful.

So you're presenting yourself to the birth mothers, yes, so that they can actually try to choose the best what they feel like would be the best path for their child. Yes, well that's interesting. I like that. Actually, that's pretty cool. So just kind of make it easier for a birth mother to give up a child and they feel like they're doing the best they can for the Yeah.

So you're presenting yourself to the birth mothers, yes, so that they can actually try to choose the best what they feel like would be the best path for their child. Yes, well that's interesting. I like that. Actually, that's pretty cool. So just kind of make it easier for a birth mother to give up a child and they feel like they're doing the best they can for the Yeah.

There's power in that, right. Yeah. So we make this book, we you know, put all these like we love being outside and talked about how I was the survivor of cancer and gives us this fervor for a life. And this family wants to meet us. We go to meet this family and and that's the only family we ever met. One one couple. They chose us, and I didn't understand right away what was happening, but we were able to be together a couple of times, and I was able to go to her doctor's appointment with her to be able to see the baby on the sonogram and kind of have that experience and its adoption. Is this really mysterious thing where you feel connected to that baby even though it's not inside your body.

There's power in that, right. Yeah. So we make this book, we you know, put all these like we love being outside and talked about how I was the survivor of cancer and gives us this fervor for a life. And this family wants to meet us. We go to meet this family and and that's the only family we ever met. One one couple. They chose us, and I didn't understand right away what was happening, but we were able to be together a couple of times, and I was able to go to her doctor's appointment with her to be able to see the baby on the sonogram and kind of have that experience and its adoption. Is this really mysterious thing where you feel connected to that baby even though it's not inside your body.

I get that, But when you just said what you said, I also can't help. But wonder is it?

I get that, But when you just said what you said, I also can't help. But wonder is it?

Wow?

Wow?

I gotta be careful here. I want to choose this right. And I don't mean I really mean. This is a question, please hear me. It's curiosity. How does that birth mother feel sitting there pregnant, looking at her baby on a sonogram, accompanied by the woman that is going to now take rais of That has to be that has to be challenging.

I gotta be careful here. I want to choose this right. And I don't mean I really mean. This is a question, please hear me. It's curiosity. How does that birth mother feel sitting there pregnant, looking at her baby on a sonogram, accompanied by the woman that is going to now take rais of That has to be that has to be challenging.

Maybe, But the idea of it is for this family, there is no world where they would get to keep that baby.

Maybe, But the idea of it is for this family, there is no world where they would get to keep that baby.

It's their background problem.

It's their background problem.

So addiction, homelessness, just vicious cycles that they could not get out of, and there was no way that they would be able to if they didn't connect with this agency. DCS would take the baby from birth and place it in foster care, and that's how that would go.

So addiction, homelessness, just vicious cycles that they could not get out of, and there was no way that they would be able to if they didn't connect with this agency. DCS would take the baby from birth and place it in foster care, and that's how that would go.

So that's horrific in and of itself.

So that's horrific in and of itself.

Right. So this was a beautiful thing for them because they were getting to choose us.

Right. So this was a beautiful thing for them because they were getting to choose us.

I get it, okay, so that I get it, And so they were completely aware of that reality as well. Yes, this maybe's going away one way or another. At least this way we have control over the hopefully a better future for our child than we're able to and that we had as children ourselves.

I get it, okay, so that I get it, And so they were completely aware of that reality as well. Yes, this maybe's going away one way or another. At least this way we have control over the hopefully a better future for our child than we're able to and that we had as children ourselves.

Probably yes, they were seeing that. They were seeing our love, they were seeing our care for our Lewis, and they wanted debt for their son. And she said the name she had picked out with Jackson, and we said, that's great, we love it, so we call it. His name's Jackson.

Probably yes, they were seeing that. They were seeing our love, they were seeing our care for our Lewis, and they wanted debt for their son. And she said the name she had picked out with Jackson, and we said, that's great, we love it, so we call it. His name's Jackson.

So you even allowed her to name. Yeah, good for you, Good for you. That's awesome. So you go to the onograms and.

So you even allowed her to name. Yeah, good for you, Good for you. That's awesome. So you go to the onograms and.

See what's going on with the baby. It feels good. Eventually we get to call it it's time time to go to the hospital.

See what's going on with the baby. It feels good. Eventually we get to call it it's time time to go to the hospital.

Hold on, well, I'm sorry, I'm going. I'm behind you a step so I'm catching up, so my slow brain is just getting up to you. Then you know this child, this woman has done drugs and stuff while pregnant. There are inherent risks and danger and the developmental possibilities and deficiencies for this child. Are you wide ayd to that at this point.

Hold on, well, I'm sorry, I'm going. I'm behind you a step so I'm catching up, so my slow brain is just getting up to you. Then you know this child, this woman has done drugs and stuff while pregnant. There are inherent risks and danger and the developmental possibilities and deficiencies for this child. Are you wide ayd to that at this point.

At that point, yes, I was like this, this, this is happening. The term for this is NAS. I know the lady, the previous guest you had, I don't think she ever mentioned that, but we use the term NAS. It stands for neonatal abstinence syndrome.

At that point, yes, I was like this, this, this is happening. The term for this is NAS. I know the lady, the previous guest you had, I don't think she ever mentioned that, but we use the term NAS. It stands for neonatal abstinence syndrome.

So this is all about syndrome.

So this is all about syndrome.

Yes, so this is kind of the umbrella term that covers any child that's exposed to opioids in utero, and there's not a ton of research on that even And we had this feeling in our heart.

Yes, so this is kind of the umbrella term that covers any child that's exposed to opioids in utero, and there's not a ton of research on that even And we had this feeling in our heart.

That so you're willingly adopting a child that might be messed up.

That so you're willingly adopting a child that might be messed up.

Yeah, he needs a homesick.

Yeah, he needs a homesick.

Why wouldn't you want This is a little rhetorical, but why wouldn't you want a baby that you know is going to have all ten fingers, all ten toes and no problems? Would that be easier?

Why wouldn't you want This is a little rhetorical, but why wouldn't you want a baby that you know is going to have all ten fingers, all ten toes and no problems? Would that be easier?

You never know what's going to happen. And we already had gone through this experience of Lewis exposed to chemotherair be and in that moment we knew there's gonna be some similarities when we adopt a baby, Like we had this feeling in our heart. We knew that that was all it was going to come, and you were not deterred. We're ready, and it was really hard. He like you have. I mean, I could not believe when that episode dropped, because now you know, you know what these babies go through. They are born and they are going to have to detox like an adult. So he was born. I was in the room and at our hospital at Children's in Knoxville, they had to build a whole wing of the hospital for these babies because there's.

You never know what's going to happen. And we already had gone through this experience of Lewis exposed to chemotherair be and in that moment we knew there's gonna be some similarities when we adopt a baby, Like we had this feeling in our heart. We knew that that was all it was going to come, and you were not deterred. We're ready, and it was really hard. He like you have. I mean, I could not believe when that episode dropped, because now you know, you know what these babies go through. They are born and they are going to have to detox like an adult. So he was born. I was in the room and at our hospital at Children's in Knoxville, they had to build a whole wing of the hospital for these babies because there's.

So many because though scotten so big.

So many because though scotten so big.

So bad there, so they get their own room. So it was really fun listening that they have their own room so they can control for noise and lie and have huddlers like these little old so they are doing a lot of it.

So bad there, so they get their own room. So it was really fun listening that they have their own room so they can control for noise and lie and have huddlers like these little old so they are doing a lot of it.

I have figured out that to recap in case you haven't listened to the Terra Sundem episode is in a very brief deal, what we're talking about here now is best described as think of the worst migraine you've ever had, times one hundred. Is what withdraws from opioids feel like. And a child born to an opioid addicted mom. The child the first twenty four hours or thirty six hours out is fine, not screaming, none of that, because they're still addicted. Then when they start to withdraws, these little two day old infants are having migraines times one hundred and light and noise and everything, and they are literally going through the same with a grown adult does. And this is their introduction to the world. And it takes sometimes eekes for these brand new newborn children who never did anything wrong to get over the addiction that their mother lost them. And so you experienced that as a mom, as an adoptive mother.

I have figured out that to recap in case you haven't listened to the Terra Sundem episode is in a very brief deal, what we're talking about here now is best described as think of the worst migraine you've ever had, times one hundred. Is what withdraws from opioids feel like. And a child born to an opioid addicted mom. The child the first twenty four hours or thirty six hours out is fine, not screaming, none of that, because they're still addicted. Then when they start to withdraws, these little two day old infants are having migraines times one hundred and light and noise and everything, and they are literally going through the same with a grown adult does. And this is their introduction to the world. And it takes sometimes eekes for these brand new newborn children who never did anything wrong to get over the addiction that their mother lost them. And so you experienced that as a mom, as an adoptive mother.

Yes, So we're having some photos. A friend came and took the photos of him, and it was in that photo session my husband had his hand on him for a photo and he felt it the tremors start and he was just shaking. His little body was just shaking. And we told the nurse and they said it's time. And I mean, they have a whole process, they know what to do. You know, we're you know, we're there, just so green to it. We don't know what's happened, but you knew this.

Yes, So we're having some photos. A friend came and took the photos of him, and it was in that photo session my husband had his hand on him for a photo and he felt it the tremors start and he was just shaking. His little body was just shaking. And we told the nurse and they said it's time. And I mean, they have a whole process, they know what to do. You know, we're you know, we're there, just so green to it. We don't know what's happened, but you knew this.

Was going to happen, or at least knew the possibility.

Was going to happen, or at least knew the possibility.

We figured that it would. But also it's our first rodeo, so we don't know what was happening.

We figured that it would. But also it's our first rodeo, so we don't know what was happening.

We don't know what that actually looks.

We don't know what that actually looks.

Yes, So they from the hospital where he was born. There's a tunnel where you go under a street to children's hospital just across the street. So they said, meet us over there. We'll take him, and got checked into this little sweet room and I would stay all day and I would hold him and I would cuddle him, and we weren't going to leave him, you know, like we needed us there with him. A lot of adoptive families choose to not be involved until the birth of the parents' rights are terminated, but we could not handle the idea of him being alone there. So I would be there during the day, and then Joseph would come from work and we would switch out and he would sleep there to give him all of his bottles during the night, and then we'd switch back in the morning and he would go to work and I would come be with Jack and my parents were with Lewis at our house. And we did that for two weeks, yikes. And then and then he finally said they wean him off the thing, and she talked about that day's morphine to wean him off of all the things he'd been exposed to, and then we just had access to so much. Early intervention people came to our house. They taught us how to take care of him. I had to replicate the Nikki in our home, Like I made a room really dark and had a rocking chair in there, and I would put Lewis on an iPad because I needed to be able to care for jack and him not be screaming and stuff. So you know, you do what you have to do to get through. And took him to therapy, you know, we did. We've just I think that my army of normal folks, my family, my people that were holding me up, gave me what I needed to be able to care for both of my boys. I mean, I got a master's in school counseling, you know, like I was ready to take care of my boys.

Yes, So they from the hospital where he was born. There's a tunnel where you go under a street to children's hospital just across the street. So they said, meet us over there. We'll take him, and got checked into this little sweet room and I would stay all day and I would hold him and I would cuddle him, and we weren't going to leave him, you know, like we needed us there with him. A lot of adoptive families choose to not be involved until the birth of the parents' rights are terminated, but we could not handle the idea of him being alone there. So I would be there during the day, and then Joseph would come from work and we would switch out and he would sleep there to give him all of his bottles during the night, and then we'd switch back in the morning and he would go to work and I would come be with Jack and my parents were with Lewis at our house. And we did that for two weeks, yikes. And then and then he finally said they wean him off the thing, and she talked about that day's morphine to wean him off of all the things he'd been exposed to, and then we just had access to so much. Early intervention people came to our house. They taught us how to take care of him. I had to replicate the Nikki in our home, Like I made a room really dark and had a rocking chair in there, and I would put Lewis on an iPad because I needed to be able to care for jack and him not be screaming and stuff. So you know, you do what you have to do to get through. And took him to therapy, you know, we did. We've just I think that my army of normal folks, my family, my people that were holding me up, gave me what I needed to be able to care for both of my boys. I mean, I got a master's in school counseling, you know, like I was ready to take care of my boys.

We'll be right back. So I'm want to read something from your book about this time he'd been exposed. Jackie been exposed to various substances in Urdu, and once he was born, he had to detox himself, which we're talking about. He did not know a life without drugs. We held him in niek you as he detoxed talked about. Here's what we haven't talked about. The hate in my heart for his birth bomb Annah just grew and grew, and I think it grew because I really needed someone to blame for the pain that Jack had to go through and for the difficulties that would come his way in life. I wasn't even sure what was coming, but I just knew someone really needed to take the blame. Jack's infant months were difficult. He could not have any external stimuli, especially when he was eating, or he wouldn't even be able to eat, so we just had to swaddle him tight and feed him in her dark room so that he could get his calories. We had just made it through the baby months. He was about a year old and we got a call. It was from the adoption agency. They said that Jack's first mom was in the hospital. They asked if I wanted to go visit, and I did. I went to visit once and she asked me if I could come back again, and she asked me, this is the person that you hated. And she asked me if I could bring her a Bible so that she could understand, and I brought her in the Jesus Storybook Bible the next time and read to her a little bit from the New Testament. About a week later, Jack's birth mom died and it had actually been cancer that killed her. And it was really that full circle moment, as you can imagine, for me having been a cancer survivor and then Jack's birth mom dying for cancer. Wow, she quite haden sorry, did him?

We'll be right back. So I'm want to read something from your book about this time he'd been exposed. Jackie been exposed to various substances in Urdu, and once he was born, he had to detox himself, which we're talking about. He did not know a life without drugs. We held him in niek you as he detoxed talked about. Here's what we haven't talked about. The hate in my heart for his birth bomb Annah just grew and grew, and I think it grew because I really needed someone to blame for the pain that Jack had to go through and for the difficulties that would come his way in life. I wasn't even sure what was coming, but I just knew someone really needed to take the blame. Jack's infant months were difficult. He could not have any external stimuli, especially when he was eating, or he wouldn't even be able to eat, so we just had to swaddle him tight and feed him in her dark room so that he could get his calories. We had just made it through the baby months. He was about a year old and we got a call. It was from the adoption agency. They said that Jack's first mom was in the hospital. They asked if I wanted to go visit, and I did. I went to visit once and she asked me if I could come back again, and she asked me, this is the person that you hated. And she asked me if I could bring her a Bible so that she could understand, and I brought her in the Jesus Storybook Bible the next time and read to her a little bit from the New Testament. About a week later, Jack's birth mom died and it had actually been cancer that killed her. And it was really that full circle moment, as you can imagine, for me having been a cancer survivor and then Jack's birth mom dying for cancer. Wow, she quite haden sorry, did him?

I had to it was it was her cancer diagnosis was just this normalization and I say, I control all delete, Uh, you forget about everything else, and you know that she's in this terrible pain and something that our family knew, and it just really it just broke me. You know. It was breaking, a breaking time for me, because, Uh, I don't want to hate anyone. I don't want to have to hold on to hate, especially the person who held my son and her body for nine months. And I was holding on to all this and maybe I needed to at that time because he was dealing with things that no baby should have to deal with. And in my heart, previously I'd felt like it's all her fault. If she wouldn't have made these choices, he wouldn't have been exposed to these things and he could have the best life possible, because who knows what's going to happen in the future, you know, at that time, when he's just struggling even to eat. And when I got that call and then she passed away, it was like this shift in my brain and I just thought about the naughtiness of human life and how we all are facing these battles and we all have these things and issues that we deal with. And I really did not have a concept of addiction at all. I've never been around anyone who's was.

I had to it was it was her cancer diagnosis was just this normalization and I say, I control all delete, Uh, you forget about everything else, and you know that she's in this terrible pain and something that our family knew, and it just really it just broke me. You know. It was breaking, a breaking time for me, because, Uh, I don't want to hate anyone. I don't want to have to hold on to hate, especially the person who held my son and her body for nine months. And I was holding on to all this and maybe I needed to at that time because he was dealing with things that no baby should have to deal with. And in my heart, previously I'd felt like it's all her fault. If she wouldn't have made these choices, he wouldn't have been exposed to these things and he could have the best life possible, because who knows what's going to happen in the future, you know, at that time, when he's just struggling even to eat. And when I got that call and then she passed away, it was like this shift in my brain and I just thought about the naughtiness of human life and how we all are facing these battles and we all have these things and issues that we deal with. And I really did not have a concept of addiction at all. I've never been around anyone who's was.

Just bad and bad people did it.

Just bad and bad people did it.

Yeah, I didn't know anything. And the more I learned and dug into it, and especially like your podcast, learning how all these people have all these aces, those adverse childhood experiences up against them. They didn't have what I had, you know, they were fighting their own battle. And when I started writing my memoir, I mean even more my mind shifted because I had never made the connection until I was writing my memoir. She and I did the same thing.

Yeah, I didn't know anything. And the more I learned and dug into it, and especially like your podcast, learning how all these people have all these aces, those adverse childhood experiences up against them. They didn't have what I had, you know, they were fighting their own battle. And when I started writing my memoir, I mean even more my mind shifted because I had never made the connection until I was writing my memoir. She and I did the same thing.

This is the part said when you wrote me hammered me and it made me tear up. We both exposed our babies to toxins and substances that no baby should come into contact with. It was the only way for both of us to survive.

This is the part said when you wrote me hammered me and it made me tear up. We both exposed our babies to toxins and substances that no baby should come into contact with. It was the only way for both of us to survive.

I could have chosen to not expose Lewis. That was a choice that I made and I'm here today because of it. But that was a choice I made, and she was making choices that she needed to make for her survival.

I could have chosen to not expose Lewis. That was a choice that I made and I'm here today because of it. But that was a choice I made, and she was making choices that she needed to make for her survival.

That is profound and gut riaching simultaneously. And we have to remember what Terra taught us, which is there's a lot of people that get exposed to opioids in the medical world, but you have to have a predisposition toward addiction for take hold of your life, and in this case it did. She was sick, She had an addiction sickness. It was no different than your cancer. And you arrived at that conclusion.

That is profound and gut riaching simultaneously. And we have to remember what Terra taught us, which is there's a lot of people that get exposed to opioids in the medical world, but you have to have a predisposition toward addiction for take hold of your life, and in this case it did. She was sick, She had an addiction sickness. It was no different than your cancer. And you arrived at that conclusion.

Actually, yes, I had never made that connection.

Actually, yes, I had never made that connection.

So what is writing about it do for you? And what do you want the reader reading about this to understand about this evolution of thought and the revelation of this understanding.

So what is writing about it do for you? And what do you want the reader reading about this to understand about this evolution of thought and the revelation of this understanding.

I want people, first of all, I had to like forgive myself or the previous thoughts that I had had.

I want people, first of all, I had to like forgive myself or the previous thoughts that I had had.

You still tear up when you say it, have you?

You still tear up when you say it, have you?

I have? I had to I had to forgive myself for the feelings that I had of hate, for her in my heart when he was struggling so hard, because I was a mama bear. I mean, you don't want someone to hurt your child, and if you have a thought of someone who's hurt your child, You're going to have negative thoughts about that person.

I have? I had to I had to forgive myself for the feelings that I had of hate, for her in my heart when he was struggling so hard, because I was a mama bear. I mean, you don't want someone to hurt your child, and if you have a thought of someone who's hurt your child, You're going to have negative thoughts about that person.

You know, Boy, at least it would, I guarantee you.

You know, Boy, at least it would, I guarantee you.

And then I had to come to terms with boy, that was also me, And that's like that's the gospel, you know, like that was me. I was that person I put Lewis in a harmful situation.

And then I had to come to terms with boy, that was also me, And that's like that's the gospel, you know, like that was me. I was that person I put Lewis in a harmful situation.

Some people would say, yeah, but you got cancer. You didn't do you didn't engage in activity that led to it. What's the answer to that? Because I think I know, but.

Some people would say, yeah, but you got cancer. You didn't do you didn't engage in activity that led to it. What's the answer to that? Because I think I know, but.

Use I think that addiction is a disease. And I don't know everything about Jack's birth mom, but I'm pretty sure that she was in foster care and it was just this cycle that would continue and she couldn't get out of it, and everybody she didn't choose that.

Use I think that addiction is a disease. And I don't know everything about Jack's birth mom, but I'm pretty sure that she was in foster care and it was just this cycle that would continue and she couldn't get out of it, and everybody she didn't choose that.

She did not choose, no more than you choose chose cancer.

She did not choose, no more than you choose chose cancer.

And we both did what we had to do when she found out that she was pregnant. Jack's birth mom, her pain medicine doctors. They said, you must continue taking everything that you're taking, because if you stop taking anything, this baby will die in utero because they're used to it. They need help to detail when they're on the outside and they can't do it in utero. And the things that she was taking that he was exposed to are the types of things that are made to keep people alive, just like chemo. They're the drugs that you can't overdose on that help people who have suffered with the opioid crisis.

And we both did what we had to do when she found out that she was pregnant. Jack's birth mom, her pain medicine doctors. They said, you must continue taking everything that you're taking, because if you stop taking anything, this baby will die in utero because they're used to it. They need help to detail when they're on the outside and they can't do it in utero. And the things that she was taking that he was exposed to are the types of things that are made to keep people alive, just like chemo. They're the drugs that you can't overdose on that help people who have suffered with the opioid crisis.

So wrinkles welcome. A cancer survivor's memoir. Wrinkles welcome. Yeah, what's that about. You don't have wrinkles?

So wrinkles welcome. A cancer survivor's memoir. Wrinkles welcome. Yeah, what's that about. You don't have wrinkles?

I want them because you know what it means if I have wrinkles on my face, I'm alive.

I want them because you know what it means if I have wrinkles on my face, I'm alive.

Tell me about the The crisis is the best word I can go to it. It came to you in May of twenty twenty two when that MD Anderson Cancer Center released an article that sent you into a telspin.

Tell me about the The crisis is the best word I can go to it. It came to you in May of twenty twenty two when that MD Anderson Cancer Center released an article that sent you into a telspin.

Okay, So, like I said before, the statistics on AML survivors are just they didn't apply to me, so I didn't have to think about them. Md Anderson decided, well, there's not any research on young adults survivors of leukemia, specifically AML. So they did all this research and their findings were that ten years out from completing your chemo and everything you have to.

Okay, So, like I said before, the statistics on AML survivors are just they didn't apply to me, so I didn't have to think about them. Md Anderson decided, well, there's not any research on young adults survivors of leukemia, specifically AML. So they did all this research and their findings were that ten years out from completing your chemo and everything you have to.

Do, which was what date for you, hasn't.

Do, which was what date for you, hasn't.

Even happened yet happened April April seventh, sorry is my date. This coming April will be ten years. So ten years out from finishing treatment, one in ten will die. That is not a good statistic. And I was really scared, and I was really hurt because I thought, oh, we've made it through this. Every every year goes by, I'm further from all of that. And I'm just gonna because previously I had asked my cologists it's a weird question, but like, what's my life expectancy?

Even happened yet happened April April seventh, sorry is my date. This coming April will be ten years. So ten years out from finishing treatment, one in ten will die. That is not a good statistic. And I was really scared, and I was really hurt because I thought, oh, we've made it through this. Every every year goes by, I'm further from all of that. And I'm just gonna because previously I had asked my cologists it's a weird question, but like, what's my life expectancy?

It's not a weird question. It is exactly what I would be thinking, right, I would be absolutely would be.

It's not a weird question. It is exactly what I would be thinking, right, I would be absolutely would be.

They said it's normal what anybody else's would be. And I was like, okay, great, I'm thinking And then M. D.

They said it's normal what anybody else's would be. And I was like, okay, great, I'm thinking And then M. D.

Anderson drops a study on you two years ago.

Anderson drops a study on you two years ago.

Yeah, and I'm thinking that's not good. I don't like those numbers. I don't like those odds.

Yeah, and I'm thinking that's not good. I don't like those numbers. I don't like those odds.

And my doctors had been fibbon.

And my doctors had been fibbon.

Well, they didn't know. Nobody knew because I.

Well, they didn't know. Nobody knew because I.

Know it's kind of keeping this but yeah, so fase research, this is what you've got to feel.

Know it's kind of keeping this but yeah, so fase research, this is what you've got to feel.

Yeah, I'm just thinking, Oh, that changes things, That really really changes things for me. And the place where I really landed was and you know, many conversations with many trusted, wisdom filled people that you and I all we have is today we're on the same playing field. It doesn't matter what happened nine years ago for either one of us. That even scripture tells us like, don't worry about tomorrow. I have today and this is it. And that is how I've had to move forward in life is understanding that this is the day that I have right now. And I hope that tomorrow comes. I really do, but right now this is it.

Yeah, I'm just thinking, Oh, that changes things, That really really changes things for me. And the place where I really landed was and you know, many conversations with many trusted, wisdom filled people that you and I all we have is today we're on the same playing field. It doesn't matter what happened nine years ago for either one of us. That even scripture tells us like, don't worry about tomorrow. I have today and this is it. And that is how I've had to move forward in life is understanding that this is the day that I have right now. And I hope that tomorrow comes. I really do, but right now this is it.

We'll be right back. Tell me about Jack today.

We'll be right back. Tell me about Jack today.

Jack is so so special. He his brain is not like anyone else's I've ever met. He is more aware of where his body is in the world than anyone else. Like he can run down a mountain and not fall down, like he'll probably be in the Olympics.

Jack is so so special. He his brain is not like anyone else's I've ever met. He is more aware of where his body is in the world than anyone else. Like he can run down a mountain and not fall down, like he'll probably be in the Olympics.

Is he that athletic?

Is he that athletic?

Really so athletic?

Really so athletic?

Really that's cool? Yeah? How old is he? Six? Okay, so he can run down on a phone. He's going to be in the Olympic down mountain running thing.

Really that's cool? Yeah? How old is he? Six? Okay, so he can run down on a phone. He's going to be in the Olympic down mountain running thing.

Yes, yeah, they're going to create a support for him. Right, but he just started kindergarten and he can write his name, and he knows his numbers, and he's just drugging right along. Full of energy?

Yes, yeah, they're going to create a support for him. Right, but he just started kindergarten and he can write his name, and he knows his numbers, and he's just drugging right along. Full of energy?

Is he developing properly?

Is he developing properly?

He is full of energy.

He is full of energy.

That's a second, a second miracle. In writing this memoir, I had doubts about what to share, as this is such a sensitive and difficult subject. However, this is how or true story ours, Jack Lewis and Joseph. What's up, Joseph, Jack Lewis, Joseph, Gabby. This is our true story. This is how our sunside Jack came to in our lives. This is one example of how adoption happened and how our lives were forever changed by Anna and Dustin choosing us to be Jack's forever family. It's also a story about how Lewis oddly saved your life, which the irony to me is that in some sense you could you could argue that Lewis saved you which allowed you to save Jack.

That's a second, a second miracle. In writing this memoir, I had doubts about what to share, as this is such a sensitive and difficult subject. However, this is how or true story ours, Jack Lewis and Joseph. What's up, Joseph, Jack Lewis, Joseph, Gabby. This is our true story. This is how our sunside Jack came to in our lives. This is one example of how adoption happened and how our lives were forever changed by Anna and Dustin choosing us to be Jack's forever family. It's also a story about how Lewis oddly saved your life, which the irony to me is that in some sense you could you could argue that Lewis saved you which allowed you to save Jack.

Yes, and the reason why I know the reason why I made it through having had cancer while's pregnant was because of my parents. And it just goes on. And I write about this, and I use this phrase all the time. It's from a Christmas song, but repeat the sounding joy because there's so many people around me who had really, really terrible childhoods and really sad situations, and they're trying to break free of all these generational traumas. And what I experienced was this inheritance of love and safety. And I know that that is why I was able to go through my treatment without any problems and just felt so secure in who I was that I could focus on Lewis and taking care of him and taking care of my body. And now I get to repeat that to my voice.

Yes, and the reason why I know the reason why I made it through having had cancer while's pregnant was because of my parents. And it just goes on. And I write about this, and I use this phrase all the time. It's from a Christmas song, but repeat the sounding joy because there's so many people around me who had really, really terrible childhoods and really sad situations, and they're trying to break free of all these generational traumas. And what I experienced was this inheritance of love and safety. And I know that that is why I was able to go through my treatment without any problems and just felt so secure in who I was that I could focus on Lewis and taking care of him and taking care of my body. And now I get to repeat that to my voice.

Joseph is an unsung hero here too. He deserves about twenty thousand high fives.

Joseph is an unsung hero here too. He deserves about twenty thousand high fives.

Joseph's the best. He is the best.

Joseph's the best. He is the best.

He's a rock.

He's a rock.

He is the person you want on your team.

He is the person you want on your team.

Yeah, six four bad. I can handle anything, exactly and if you're ungryll walk down the street and get your cheeseburger exactly so.

Yeah, six four bad. I can handle anything, exactly and if you're ungryll walk down the street and get your cheeseburger exactly so.

And I write about this in the book, and I have to tell you this. A couple of months right after the MD Anderson information broke out. And this has really changed my life. How I see things in one day at a time today is a gift. It's beautiful. A lot of cancer survivors are that way, you know. We're just so thankful to be here because things could have gone very differently. And his job is very stressful. He's a CFO of a couple of car dealerships, and he was very feeling very stressed out and wanting to be the best person at work and wanting to be the best husband, son. He's the only child, husband, father, He wants to be all the things to all the people, and that's just a lot, you know. And he was saying, I cannot wait to be retired, and I was like, I don't. I don't get to think about that. I don't think about sixty seven and a half years old. That's not I can't be in the present moment always and be thinking of I can't wait to live this way in some distant future, because I don't know, none of us know if I'm.

And I write about this in the book, and I have to tell you this. A couple of months right after the MD Anderson information broke out. And this has really changed my life. How I see things in one day at a time today is a gift. It's beautiful. A lot of cancer survivors are that way, you know. We're just so thankful to be here because things could have gone very differently. And his job is very stressful. He's a CFO of a couple of car dealerships, and he was very feeling very stressed out and wanting to be the best person at work and wanting to be the best husband, son. He's the only child, husband, father, He wants to be all the things to all the people, and that's just a lot, you know. And he was saying, I cannot wait to be retired, and I was like, I don't. I don't get to think about that. I don't think about sixty seven and a half years old. That's not I can't be in the present moment always and be thinking of I can't wait to live this way in some distant future, because I don't know, none of us know if I'm.

Yeah, but it's it's it's especially king to someone who survived what you've survived, right, So each day probably is a little bit different approach for you than it is for me. And but the richness of that is part of the lesson, isn't it? For sure?

Yeah, but it's it's it's especially king to someone who survived what you've survived, right, So each day probably is a little bit different approach for you than it is for me. And but the richness of that is part of the lesson, isn't it? For sure?

For sure? So I told him I can't, I can't think about retirement this that's not my mind's view. And we made this plan and he took it to his boss and his boss when when I was sick, that's seven months, his boss continued to pay him that whole time.

For sure? So I told him I can't, I can't think about retirement this that's not my mind's view. And we made this plan and he took it to his boss and his boss when when I was sick, that's seven months, his boss continued to pay him that whole time.

His boss is a good dude.

His boss is a good dude.

Boss is a good dude. His name's Adam White.

Boss is a good dude. His name's Adam White.

What's the name of his dealerships? Free Plug?

What's the name of his dealerships? Free Plug?

I know got North Knox Chryslerdad, Deep and Ram and Secret City Christ of Jodge, Deep and Ram.

I know got North Knox Chryslerdad, Deep and Ram and Secret City Christ of Jodge, Deep and Ram.

Just known those places are owned by a good dude and the money is kept up with with the rock. So if you're in at Knoxville, go buy vehicles there.

Just known those places are owned by a good dude and the money is kept up with with the rock. So if you're in at Knoxville, go buy vehicles there.

Yes, So he Joseph came to Adam and said, hey, I're going to make a change. I've got to go to four tenths. And I said, do what you need to do. So now on Fridays we take our kids to school and we live like retired people.

Yes, So he Joseph came to Adam and said, hey, I're going to make a change. I've got to go to four tenths. And I said, do what you need to do. So now on Fridays we take our kids to school and we live like retired people.

Wow, that's just beautiful, right, Gabby. When I first read the title, Wrinkles Welcome, a cancer survivor's memoir. I thought, well, what a wonderful thing for people going through cancer, or for uplifting hope that you're going to survive camphor, or if you've been through cancer and all of that. I saw what this book's about. What is this book about.

Wow, that's just beautiful, right, Gabby. When I first read the title, Wrinkles Welcome, a cancer survivor's memoir. I thought, well, what a wonderful thing for people going through cancer, or for uplifting hope that you're going to survive camphor, or if you've been through cancer and all of that. I saw what this book's about. What is this book about.

This book is about knowing that you can make an impact in your little sphere, your little circle, even if you just live with your little family. I know that I'm okay because my parents took care of me and loved me, and that was going to save me. You don't know what's coming for your kids, and you loving your kids, taking care of them, having a safe environment for them, for all kids that all kids deserve, that that is going to be the thing that saves them when whatever thing's come in for them. Because you don't know what's coming, you need that deep well, it's been dug so carefully and filled up with so much love and safety to draw from. And I just really want to encourage moms and dads to know, like what you're doing matters in the lives of your kids. And I wouldn't be here if my parents hadn't taken care of me.

This book is about knowing that you can make an impact in your little sphere, your little circle, even if you just live with your little family. I know that I'm okay because my parents took care of me and loved me, and that was going to save me. You don't know what's coming for your kids, and you loving your kids, taking care of them, having a safe environment for them, for all kids that all kids deserve, that that is going to be the thing that saves them when whatever thing's come in for them. Because you don't know what's coming, you need that deep well, it's been dug so carefully and filled up with so much love and safety to draw from. And I just really want to encourage moms and dads to know, like what you're doing matters in the lives of your kids. And I wouldn't be here if my parents hadn't taken care of me.

In that way, Gabby is a living proof of something we talk about all the time, which is all you've got to do is employ your passion and your abilities where it meets opportunity, and you can change lives and you do not have to start some massive organization to do it, because Gabby has a passion as a loving parent that she got from her loving parents, has a passion for life because she experienced the fear of what not having life would be, and she saw an opportunity and adopted Jack. And there's no doubt his life is far better today than it would have been given its original trajectory. It's just being a normal person, normal folks seeing a place and fill a need. And in the midtime wrote a book that I think everybody should read if you want a perspective on life that should increase your awareness of its richness and the blessing of every single day. Yes, you're amazing. I wish so much people could see your sweet smile and face and how full of life and color you are, and see how just genuinely kind of a soul that you are. If there's somebody out there thinking about adopting and is fearful of what if I adopt a kid with problems, if there's somebody out there that struggling with answer and needs encouragement, I gotta believe you'd be happy to with them.

In that way, Gabby is a living proof of something we talk about all the time, which is all you've got to do is employ your passion and your abilities where it meets opportunity, and you can change lives and you do not have to start some massive organization to do it, because Gabby has a passion as a loving parent that she got from her loving parents, has a passion for life because she experienced the fear of what not having life would be, and she saw an opportunity and adopted Jack. And there's no doubt his life is far better today than it would have been given its original trajectory. It's just being a normal person, normal folks seeing a place and fill a need. And in the midtime wrote a book that I think everybody should read if you want a perspective on life that should increase your awareness of its richness and the blessing of every single day. Yes, you're amazing. I wish so much people could see your sweet smile and face and how full of life and color you are, and see how just genuinely kind of a soul that you are. If there's somebody out there thinking about adopting and is fearful of what if I adopt a kid with problems, if there's somebody out there that struggling with answer and needs encouragement, I gotta believe you'd be happy to with them.

Yes, I would love to talk to anyone about any of these issues.

Yes, I would love to talk to anyone about any of these issues.

And if there's anyboy out there that just wants to know more about your book, yes, how do they reach you?

And if there's anyboy out there that just wants to know more about your book, yes, how do they reach you?

So? You can find me on Instagram at Gabby Larent Rights and you can contact me there. And I've got a website being built right now.

So? You can find me on Instagram at Gabby Larent Rights and you can contact me there. And I've got a website being built right now.

What's it going to be called?

What's it going to be called?

I'm not sure yet?

I'm not sure yet?

All right? How about email?

All right? How about email?

I've got it. I've got a Gmail. You want me to say it? Yeah, yeah, it's Gabby Laurentz.

I've got it. I've got a Gmail. You want me to say it? Yeah, yeah, it's Gabby Laurentz.

I say, oh yeah, so you say you're okay?

I say, oh yeah, so you say you're okay?

All right, Gabby Larent twenty four at Gmail.

All right, Gabby Larent twenty four at Gmail.

There you go, and you can reach out if you're if you or someone who loves dealing with cancer, if you want to hear more about this book, or if you're thinking about adopting and have trepidation. You have just met a person who's been through all of it and would be an amazing point of inspiration. I'm certain, Gabby, tell me your favorite story of Lewis and Jack together of this family you've met or one of your favorite stories about Lewis and Jack's interaction. These two kids, both of whom had an interesting introduction into our world. We are now brothers. How do they interact?

There you go, and you can reach out if you're if you or someone who loves dealing with cancer, if you want to hear more about this book, or if you're thinking about adopting and have trepidation. You have just met a person who's been through all of it and would be an amazing point of inspiration. I'm certain, Gabby, tell me your favorite story of Lewis and Jack together of this family you've met or one of your favorite stories about Lewis and Jack's interaction. These two kids, both of whom had an interesting introduction into our world. We are now brothers. How do they interact?

They are full on brothers. They play together, they go crazy together. We've made our room, sorry, our house very kid friendly, so they can just jump all over everything in the house. All their sensory systems need to be playing at all times. But Lewis is the most tenderhearted kid you ever meet. When he meets a new adult, he always says, where were you on nine eleven?

They are full on brothers. They play together, they go crazy together. We've made our room, sorry, our house very kid friendly, so they can just jump all over everything in the house. All their sensory systems need to be playing at all times. But Lewis is the most tenderhearted kid you ever meet. When he meets a new adult, he always says, where were you on nine eleven?

Where were you on nine eleven? Really? How old is he?

Where were you on nine eleven? Really? How old is he?

He's nine?

He's nine?

Wow, that's crazy. Why does he want to know that?

Wow, that's crazy. Why does he want to know that?

Because he read a book about it? Curious, very curious. Because of Jack and our experience with Jack and him having some needs, Lewis is more tender and aware of other people who have needs, and he befriends the kids who have needs.

Because he read a book about it? Curious, very curious. Because of Jack and our experience with Jack and him having some needs, Lewis is more tender and aware of other people who have needs, and he befriends the kids who have needs.

Empathy, real live empathy.

Empathy, real live empathy.

Real life empathy.

Real life empathy.

So you've got this Jack and Lewis family. Tell me about Jack's other brother.

So you've got this Jack and Lewis family. Tell me about Jack's other brother.

Okay, so Jack's other brother is named Nicholas. He is exactly one year older than Jack. He was adopted through foster care by his mom, Carrie, and they live about twenty minutes from us. Crazy crazy And one of my favorite things about Lewis is that he loves to say, Okay, this is Nicholas is Jack's brother, and Jack is my brother, but Nicholas is not my brother.

Okay, so Jack's other brother is named Nicholas. He is exactly one year older than Jack. He was adopted through foster care by his mom, Carrie, and they live about twenty minutes from us. Crazy crazy And one of my favorite things about Lewis is that he loves to say, Okay, this is Nicholas is Jack's brother, and Jack is my brother, but Nicholas is not my brother.

Does do Are Nicholas and Jack completely aware of one another? Yes?

Does do Are Nicholas and Jack completely aware of one another? Yes?

And they are little twins and their energy level is the same. So when we get together, it's on. It's like wwe like wrestling and just so much energy and it's beautiful.

And they are little twins and their energy level is the same. So when we get together, it's on. It's like wwe like wrestling and just so much energy and it's beautiful.

Did Nicholas struggle with the same things Jack did? Same things? Is it potential that they would go to school together one day?

Did Nicholas struggle with the same things Jack did? Same things? Is it potential that they would go to school together one day?

No? But he does go to a school where a friend that I have from church is a teacher. No kidding, And I said, listen, Jack's Brother's coming in and she was so excited to see him on the first day.

No? But he does go to a school where a friend that I have from church is a teacher. No kidding, And I said, listen, Jack's Brother's coming in and she was so excited to see him on the first day.

What is Nicholas's mom?

What is Nicholas's mom?

Same Carrie?

Same Carrie?

Carrie? Do you and Carrie and everybody get together and have these big play dates and stuff.

Carrie? Do you and Carrie and everybody get together and have these big play dates and stuff.

Yes, And it's like an extra parent, you know, because you know with your kids, you know you've got one kid. If a kid has an allergy to something, you know to look for.

Yes, And it's like an extra parent, you know, because you know with your kids, you know you've got one kid. If a kid has an allergy to something, you know to look for.

That and the other. That's right.

That and the other. That's right.

So it's super helpful to be able to text her about any little random thing where like sister moms or something. It's amazing, it's a huge blessing for our family.

So it's super helpful to be able to text her about any little random thing where like sister moms or something. It's amazing, it's a huge blessing for our family.

What a crazy, mixed up, beautiful mess going on. It's but it's beautiful, it really is. And again, you know, where would Nicholas be without Carrie? Where would Jack be without Gabby? And you want to make an imprint on this world, there's about a thousand different ways to do it.

What a crazy, mixed up, beautiful mess going on. It's but it's beautiful, it really is. And again, you know, where would Nicholas be without Carrie? Where would Jack be without Gabby? And you want to make an imprint on this world, there's about a thousand different ways to do it.

Starts at home.

Starts at home.

Gabby. What an amazing story, Joseph. I wish you to come and hung out with us, because I know you've got to be proud of this wife of yours. And one last question, given what you've been through and given the unknown about this ridiculous disease that you had to fight at such a young age, not being a seventy year old white dude, right, how do you approach each day in month and each scan or each check up or whatever it is you go through being a mom who clearly wants to be her husband's wife and her children's mother. What sustained you.

Gabby. What an amazing story, Joseph. I wish you to come and hung out with us, because I know you've got to be proud of this wife of yours. And one last question, given what you've been through and given the unknown about this ridiculous disease that you had to fight at such a young age, not being a seventy year old white dude, right, how do you approach each day in month and each scan or each check up or whatever it is you go through being a mom who clearly wants to be her husband's wife and her children's mother. What sustained you.

My faith, knowing that when I was sick, all I had was my hope in God and curious through And if I know that He did that, then I know that He can do that for as long as I can go. And it is scary. Every time I have to have a blood draw to check it. It is scary. It doesn't go away, and I just have to remember that hope. We have this picture of me at the bottom of the stairs in our house. I'm bald, I'm looking out the window and I have my hands under my belly and I call it my ebenezer. It's my touchstone. So I see that and I say, I remember what God brought me through. And when I get scared, I can look at that and say, don't forget. We've been here before. If it comes back, we'll get through it again. And I just have to move forward. And the blood work's always great. And then I take a big sigh of relief and I go back to washing dishes.

My faith, knowing that when I was sick, all I had was my hope in God and curious through And if I know that He did that, then I know that He can do that for as long as I can go. And it is scary. Every time I have to have a blood draw to check it. It is scary. It doesn't go away, and I just have to remember that hope. We have this picture of me at the bottom of the stairs in our house. I'm bald, I'm looking out the window and I have my hands under my belly and I call it my ebenezer. It's my touchstone. So I see that and I say, I remember what God brought me through. And when I get scared, I can look at that and say, don't forget. We've been here before. If it comes back, we'll get through it again. And I just have to move forward. And the blood work's always great. And then I take a big sigh of relief and I go back to washing dishes.

Your lights, your husband, your lights, your kids, but your light to the world. Everybody wrinkles. Welcome a cancer survivor's memoir. It's not about cancer, it's not about motherhood. It really is about approach to life. You know how to reach out to Gabby if you want to. I hope you will. I hope you will read her book.

Your lights, your husband, your lights, your kids, but your light to the world. Everybody wrinkles. Welcome a cancer survivor's memoir. It's not about cancer, it's not about motherhood. It really is about approach to life. You know how to reach out to Gabby if you want to. I hope you will. I hope you will read her book.

September seventeenth.

September seventeenth.

September seventeenth is when it's released. Is that it? So thank you for the I'm glad so September seventeenth. This thing's coming out and buy it, get it, read it, reach out to her. This really isn't a podcast where we intentionally promote books or stuff. I rarely promote my own book, right, But in this regard, I'm not promoting it so Gabby gets royalties. I'm promoting it because I think it is a beautiful example of what being a number of the army of normal folks is really about, and how no matter what your station in life, what you're faced with, or what your abilities are, we can all all effect positive change in this world. And I imagine this book's going to be something special. Gabby, thanks for coming to Memphis, thanks.

September seventeenth is when it's released. Is that it? So thank you for the I'm glad so September seventeenth. This thing's coming out and buy it, get it, read it, reach out to her. This really isn't a podcast where we intentionally promote books or stuff. I rarely promote my own book, right, But in this regard, I'm not promoting it so Gabby gets royalties. I'm promoting it because I think it is a beautiful example of what being a number of the army of normal folks is really about, and how no matter what your station in life, what you're faced with, or what your abilities are, we can all all effect positive change in this world. And I imagine this book's going to be something special. Gabby, thanks for coming to Memphis, thanks.

For joining me, thank you, thank you so much.

For joining me, thank you, thank you so much.

And thank you for joining us this week. If Gabby or other guests have inspired you in general, or better yet, to take action by adopting a child or helping someone through their cancer journey or something else entirely. Please let me know I'd love to hear about it. You can write me anytime at Bill at normalfolks dot us, and I promise you I'll respond. You know what, if you enjoyed the episode, share it with friends on social, subscribe to the podcast, rate it, review it, join the army at normalfolks dot us, consider becoming a Premium member there. Any and all of these things help us grow an army of normal folks. Thanks to our producer, Ironlight Labs, I'm Bill Courtney. I'll see you next week.

And thank you for joining us this week. If Gabby or other guests have inspired you in general, or better yet, to take action by adopting a child or helping someone through their cancer journey or something else entirely. Please let me know I'd love to hear about it. You can write me anytime at Bill at normalfolks dot us, and I promise you I'll respond. You know what, if you enjoyed the episode, share it with friends on social, subscribe to the podcast, rate it, review it, join the army at normalfolks dot us, consider becoming a Premium member there. Any and all of these things help us grow an army of normal folks. Thanks to our producer, Ironlight Labs, I'm Bill Courtney. I'll see you next week.