In this powerful episode, Jenn sits down with Gary DeVercelly, whose son Gary Jr. tragically died in a fraternity hazing incident nearly 20 years ago, and Daniel, director of the new documentary film 4000, premiering next week at the Tribeca Film Festival. They discuss the devastating realities of hazing culture, the silence that protects it, and the families who have turned unimaginable loss into a movement for change. Through Gary’s personal story and Daniel’s reporting, the conversation explores why awareness must start long before college and how breaking the cycle of hazing “tradition” could save lives.