How to Change Your Energy to Change Your Stress Levels

Published Mar 7, 2019, 6:34 PM

In this interview, author and scientist Joyce Whiteley Hawkes opens up about her near death experience, and how it changed her career and connection to science. She also reveals how energy work and prayer can tap into our soul to encourage emotional healing.

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I feel like I'm walking a line stretched out in front of me, and my right foot is in the material world and the world of science, and my left foot's in the world of spirit. And so I try and walk close to the middle line to dance between those two because I've had experience in the spiritual arena of this, in the mode of thoughts of working to promote energy healing that I can't explain as a science. Everyone, I'm doctors and this is the Doctors Podcast. As much as like as I can operate on someone's heart when they're about to have a heart attack, the real issue is could I have intervened earlier my figuring out what's energetically within them? Now, this seems sort of soft touching and feelate to a lot of folks out there. Uh, And so I thought we sort of come through the literature and see who some of the nation's experts are, scientists who spent a good part of their career in conventional science and figuring out why adams work and cells function or whatever, and try to see what work has been done seriously looking at energy at the level of the cell, trying to figure out if there's anything there, and there are a few people who are better candidates. Talk to us about this, and then not to George Hawks, who, besides being a biophysicists and cell biologist by training, is someone who's a fellow at the American Association for Advancement of Sciences, which is the nation's premier scientific body. It's the most prestigious. I would argue, I don't know how one becomes a member, but it's tough. I know you're elective. I don't know how they even picked to elect you. It's it's it is a mystery. But this is a wonderful society that that prides itself bringing together some of the leading thinkers of science. And Doc Talks a member of that group, um and she is. She written about her experience at the Love to Cell with the book called Cell Level Healing The Bridge from Seoul to Sell. Thank you for joining us. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you. Let's go back to which is when I understand you first began to think about to sell in a very different way than you had been trained. What happened, Well, I had a near death experience a few years before that, and in eighty four I changed careers. Not all of a sudden, I had about a six seven year runway after my near death experience. What was near death experience, by the way, I was hit on the head with a leaded glass window that fell off of something unexpectedly and it shouldn't have And I was an atheist at the time, and all of a sudden, here I'm shooting down the long dark tunnel towards the light. My mother and grandmother greet me, and experience I had never read about. Indes were not popular at that point in time. Deceased, They were deceased. If they weren't there, it wouldn't be near death. I guess, yes, you're right, But it was one of those amazing experiences of being able to communicate with them, to feel their love, and passing into a place that was full of light, where everything was lit from itself is what it seemed like. The blades of grass had this extraordinary color of light and vitality. Then I was in the presence of a being of light for it felt like a long time, and I had no specific life review. I just knew there weren't any secrets, and there was no opportunity to waste time thinking about having secrets or coming or going, and then I was back on the floor. Apparently after about an hour, I had a big scar of my head and dried blood all over my head, so I wasn't out just a second or two. So why why do you think experiences are so frequently described like that. I've had my share of patients who have who have experienced these events, and they have come back, and it's almost always sort of seen that same way. It's curious because I have traveled other parts of the world old where people have had near death experiences, but they're different. In Bally, for example, the healer that I worked with walked down a long path in the middle of a forest. She arrived at a place that felt like a tribunal. Someone came and pled her case and then foom, she came back into her body. Her whole family was grieving because she was out so long they were sure she was dead. It changed her life. She became a healer. That was one of the reasons I was attracted to talking with her. People in other parts of the world also may go down a river, so it's fairly common in our culture to do the tunnel. Why I don't know what precedents there is for it. So it's understandably a life changing experience totally, and seven years later you change your career. I did after I had started meditating, started working with a healer, all of a sudden experience this amazing feeling of energy moving through my body and to other people. And in that sense, they were describing to me how much it helped them all of a sudden, you know, diseases they had, particularly inflammatory diseases like arthritis, were receding, or they felt tremendous well being during that time that I was working with them. The feedback was really strong. What do you what do you think is happening? It's a good question. There's a place of mystery with this. Even as a scientist, I look at on the right side of the field of science and factual stuff what is happening, And on the other side there is an entry into the mystery of simply moving compassion, skill, wisdom of moving some kind of energy that I'm not sure as measured jet to another person which affects them in a healing way. But you know, because you're a scientists, I wanted to probe you a bit more help all of us understand what's happening at the granular level. So I know that life is defined by cells. And most of us think that when we get sick is because one of our cells got sick, right, and virus got into the cell, replicated and burst out, or the cell got crushed by a carcinogen or became a cancer itself. But what is it about the energy that would flow into our body that would influence the cell. What do you think it's actually doing there? The subcellular parts are so small, they work in such quick modes that if you want to bring the word quantum, and there's probably a quantum field. There's a interaction with energy at a mitochondrial level, at the power pack of the cell, at the action level of the cell where endoplasmic reticulum makes the enzymes and the structural proteins, at the information level of the cell where DNA is coding for what's needed next, and at the communication level of the cell that it may in cell membrane, which receives information from hormones, from proteins, from glycoproteins, and from other cells. There's nanotubes that are ultrasmall that touch each other. So one cell communicates to another in some amazing ways. So these very small parts are very sensitive two energy, to frequency, to magnetic fields probably, and to who knows what in the level of consciousness that may touch those cells. It would seem to me that in the twenty some years since you switch careers, we've made such huge progress in understanding what's happening within a cell. Beautifully articulated, these little micro tubas that cells talk to each other, the magic of the membrane, the ability of the end particulum to make substances that the cell uses. We understand these so much better than when I was in medical school that we would have also by now tested the role of very subtle amounts of energy. If you if the sun shines and a cell except for drawing it out, I mean, doesn't deltrobolot radiation changed the ability of the membrane to talk to the membrane. That who's doing that kind of research. There's not as much research going on along those lines as one would think. The research is still at how does that basic cell operate? You know, recently scissor RNA was discovered, so that when the nucleus is telling the enterplasmic reticulum what to make and it's made enough, there's a feedback loop inside of the cell and a whole separate molecule that comes up called scissor rn A clips it off and says, okay, that's enough. That's fairly new stuff. The complexity of the interactions, the feedback loops inside of cells and between cells is still a huge area of research. And do you think that in the next decade, for example, will have a pretty good amount of data around the fact that willing yourself to be well might play a role energetically. I hope so. I truly hope so, and I h is now funding some of those studies. But it's another one of those places where the funding stream also designates how much we know about whatever is going on. As a scientist, you have insights into what's mechanistically going on, but as a healer, you're not confined by that knowledge. How do you reconcile the two and you get frustrated by the reticence of either side to talk about what's happening in the middle. I do and their days when I feel like I'm walking a line stretched out in front of me and my right foot is in the material world and the world of science and my left foots in the world of spirit, and so I try and walk close to the middle line to dance between those two because I've had experience in the spiritual arena of this in the mode of thought of working to promote energy healing that I can't explain as a scientist, but I know it works because I've seen it. I've heard the feedback and it lasts. So I would love to have a full clear explanation, and I don't, but I know both work and both are important to human life. So if someone were to ask you to describe the bridge between a cell and the soul, would you describe it? The bridge is an energy bridge, and it is a bridge that contains mystery, and it's a bridge that's very effective. It's positive, It enables life, it brings vitality, it supports repair and renewal. So my descriptions are active descriptions of how it works. They're not descriptions of the mechanism of one molecule to another. And there's a whole area once again in there of mystery. But do you have this term soul signature that you've coined? What does that mean? What I found, what I worked with people, is that some people have a certain kind of energy or vibrational energy that's different from others. Can almost tell people like a fingerprint. It's there's a uniqueness about it between among people, and each person is a little bit different. For example, I mean they differences that are tenfold differences. Are they so subtle that you really can't differentiate it with a scientific tool. We just have to sense it. I'd say they're more subtle. They're much more in the subtle arena. There's last part where that came from. But first a quick break. So then the question that I've always wanted to ask you someone who was an expert as a heart transplant surgeon, I take out of hearts from people who are injured in traumatic events, frequently put them into others who were just clinging to life, just trying to crawl their way back up out of the abyss of death, and sometimes you see these personality shifts. And colleagues of mine, Paul Pierce All being one in particular, have written about the concept of cellular memory, the idea that we don't just have memory up here, we have memory at the level of the individuals sell in our body. Do you think it's possible. I think it is possible, and I think that people have described it people who have had heart transplants. Obviously there's a whole literature, and I'm sure you've heard many of those stories of people that suddenly have an experience of some other consciousness or reality than what there was in them before they had this new heart. I've also worked with people for whom there's trauma, and we're trying to help release trauma, which is really seated somewhere at a very physical level, not just a memory level, not just a blocked a migdala, but somewhere in the body. Let me tell you one story of this. There was a gentleman who came to me some years ago who had broken his ankle in a soccer game, and he had um bone spurs. His physician had done everything he could for him, and he still was somewhat immobile and in pain. As I started to work on him, he was lying on my table and I and his sock and shoe was off, and I just began to move my hand above his leg, and when I got to the place where the break was, all of a sudden, that flesh turned ghostly white. Gray and running was sweat. None of the rest of him was. It was clearly a trauma response from that original accident that had never left. So part of my work with him was to clear that somatic memory and the bone spurs resolved themselves, they went away, he was able to go back to soccer. It was this amazing. I'm I'm struck with this in part because you have such a deep grounding in the way the seals work, and I personally struggle a lot with how energy works, and you're sort of pulling me a little bit that way. I get it, but there. But the example of solar memory is a wonderful one. I bet you that at the level of the cell, memory is much more subtle then. Hey, I used to like Hamburger, Now I like French fries. And that's how people tend to interpret sellar memory, that you just take the personality of the donor. I would suspect that cells talk to each other at at a much more subtle level then one would appreciate. Just at this level, when you were a talking here I talk about the role of God, you mentioned that when you were hit by the pain glass, that this is from a church ceiling No, it was actually in my house. I was cleaning house, which at that point in time, being a very busy scientist, it was a rather rare occasion, and this thing was decorative. And then I was kidding you. Actually you mentioned that, but I was thinking that it was a stained glass window falling out, you know, Peter Peter falling off, you know, one of the disciples. Yes, but you mentioned that actually changed you from being an atheist. Do you think the prayer if it works? And I want to give everyone out there the benefit because you know, it's hard to prove that it works. There are a lot tons of anecdotal information. Is just the kind of double line, randomized trialgy that convinces everybody is still not there. But if prayer works, do you think this is how it works. I think prayer taps something in people which allows healing energy that's universal. If you call it from God, from the universe. People have lots of different names for it. But yes, I do think it works, and the anecdotal studies are pretty powerful. And there are people who don't have a particular religious bet who also receive healing out of something, whether you call it meditation or prayer centering, or being quiet, or going into the solitude, into the emptiness. It works. So my wife Lisa went often got her her racky training, and now she comes home every once in a while when I don't feel well or did she used it on the kids a lot and does And actually I feel the heat, yes, that she generates when she does this. Uh, and I she's not here to ask these questions. I'm gonna pose them to you. If you have to explain to a skeptical individual why Ricky might be possible, What's how would you go about painting that picture? It's the answer for that has got to come from the experience of people, because there's nothing really measured yet. Now, a Japanese film crew came to Seattle and filmed me working, and they brought a thermographer who had a fancy thermography camera and they filmed my hands, which get red hot when I'm working. It blew this thing off the scale and so I can't just sit here and think about making my hands hot. But they do that when my compassions engaged and when I'm actually working with someone. In fact, my whole body gets hot. So Lisa's does too. What is that energy that flows through us. All of us who experience it describe it as a sacred energy, a place where compassion and skill come together. But the precise kind of energy and exactly how it interacts with the cells for healing is still in the realm of mystery. It's unsolved. You've traveled all over the world. You've seen ricky masters, you've seen shaman's, you've seen healers from ancient traditions and modern communities. What are some of the interesting ties that pulled them all together? Are there any uniform elements that you see, Yes, there are some bottom line similarities. There is always a great appreciation and devotion for however they connect spiritually, and it could be by many different names. There is a great sense of being able to reach the other person, to touch them in a way that is healing and compassionate. So underlying this are those qualities of someone who's empathic, who can even take on someone else's illness, and that sense of compassion. But a skill and wisdom about how to work with energy, not just dumping at all over them. Is a scientist. I'm sure as you watch these these different individuals work through there, they're they're they're different traditions. You must think yourself, I could do an experiment and test that. Why do you think it doesn't happen? Why don't we actually do some of the tests. Is it because it's too subtle for us to be able to tell if it's really happening. Is it because it's too difficult to get our West thinking brains to comprehend that other approaches might be effective. There are some studies, they are small. One of the challenges and working with a scientific study in a shamanic community or out in uh boonies in a place like valley, is that the healers are not used to it and it shuts them down, or do it does, and so that kind of harsh looking at it. Setting up a double blind study is very foreign to them and they don't operate well under it. That's very interesting you mentioned it because we did a series of studies looking at curlion photography, which is this. Yeah, the old technique was developed in late nineteen thirties by a husband and wife team in Russia. Actually was information that was not released to the West, but they developed using photographic plates ways of measuring the body's energy and so in the midst of the of these studies, I would measure our healers. We did the randomized trial compared healers and non healers. Most of the healers we worked with had difficulty reproducing what what they do every day. It wouldn't be influenced by how the trip to the hospital was that day. Was there too much noise outside, what was the attitude of the people doing the studies. It became interesting to me to see how subtle change is in the environment influenced these healers. Now, part of the appropriate criticism some might make is listen, if I take a knife and cut out a boil on your back, that will almost always work. It doesn't matter if it's a lot of traffic outside, what the humidity is, whether you believe it's going to work or not. And I think for many of the therapies that are used with some success in other parts of the world, acupuncture is a good example of that. Once a very wise traditional trans medicine position said acupuncture works, but it won't work in America, And I said, well why not? He said, because some Americans will understand its potential. But if the mind doesn't want it to work, then it can't work. And if your gut instinct is I can't see in this needle in my arm affecting my eyesight or my pain in my back, then you're gonna block it. You'll stop it from happening. Do you think there is a way of studying some of these healers without styming them at the same time, I think there must be, and part of it would be having someone who can make them comfortable and explain what all the equipment is. You know, I went to Japan and was tested in a research lab with my censors recording brain wave patterns while I was doing healing work. I've done this long enough, and I'm not no, I didn't it was wet um, but I asked for someone who was really ill because I knew couldn't just wave my hands around and pretend. And so the brain wave testing showed beta and delta in a waking state, so it was gonna well, beta waves are the the alert clear mind, and delta usually only show up in deep sleep. But they but I run those really strongly during the healing work. They peek all over my head. And so here's one of the routes of looking at how cells respond and activate in a person who's doing healing work. It would be a wonderful route of research in the future. But I also like to make another comment, if I may, about people believing this is going to work or not. Most of the time, clients who come to me are very happy to be there, and they're very great attitude, and they're really receptive to the work. But I had a woman once who had a severe bleeding kalitas. She was due for surgery. Nothing had helped it. Her psychotherapist center to me. She was uncomfortable, she was not happy with it. She stretched out on my table as I started just work above her with my hands, and she was like a board. I thought, you know, I've wasted her time, havn't helped her. She called me later that night the bleeding had stopped. It never returned. It took us about three or four months and all the symptoms of kalitus stopped. Why was she still rigid? Do you think when you were when she was done, she was still just her mind was working. This was not going to work or help her, but the but the energy actually touched her and was a profound healing. But she had a bad attitude, So you know, go figure, you never know. We just got going to stay with us after the break. We're here with Dr Joyce, hawks PhD specialists about physicists as well as a cell biologists, talking about her healing experiences. You wrote a book called Cell Level of Healing, The Bridges from Soul to Sell Why why would you write that book? My clients bugged me for years to write it, and something inside of me said, it's time for this work to be available to people so that they can do this themselves. And that's really the intent of the book, that it guides them to be able to incorporate the link between their physical body and any kind of meditation or prayer or spiritual work for their health. So earlier in the book you talk about clearing block could just and I was struck that you said, if you have blockages, then But how do you know if you have blockages? Many people know because they repeat patterns that aren't healthy for them, and so they notice that or they have an emotional response they wish they didn't have other times. This is one of the ways in which healers work as they can feel blockages, often with their hands, like the energy stopped here, what's going on there. Sometimes where there's pain in the body, there's actually blockage, and acupunctures talk a lot about that. Once you get a flow of energy through the body, it's usually much healthier, people feel better. I'm to take used as an as a jumping point to talk about post traumatic stress disorder. Now you mentioned the word a magdala. It's a m y g d l A right, that's the way I spell it. Those you at home next to the scrapple world you I mean the company they get the y out of the way couple. As the magdala is this sort of relay station in in some ways in the middle of the brain that that allows the emotional center of the brain to talk to the thoughts center, the supertentorial brain, the brain that has all the executive function, and in post traumatic stress disorder, that tends to get blocked according to your writings, and it makes sense to me as what seems to happen. And so because it's blocked, the emotional center can't talk to anybody. No one can can turn it on or off regulated and advise it. So it just begins to cause action. So how is it that the healing processes that that you've been using influences that pathway. And I asked this question because it's so common in war torn areas. It's it's very common for our gis coming back from the Rocket's common in the Postcontrina survivors. And there are many people who have an element to post traumatic stress disorder, and other people have found ways psychologically to help with it, like rapid eye movement. There are other kinds of the rapid eye move Does it work? Nobody knows how it works, but they know that people no longer are reacting just out of the emotion. They're able to process whatever the the trauma was, and so they're beginning to release from that knee jerk emotional response. Explain to me, what what what is this THERAPYLL How do you induce rapid eye movement? You usually only get that when you're asleep. Oh, there's a certain therapy that psychologists use. I'm not an expert in it, where they move their fingers back and forth and have people track with them, and there's something about that that starts to allow the amygdala to link up again. Now, the energy work that I've done and other healers have done with people seem to allow it, and it's more from the results, and then it is from knowing exactly what the function is, and so one sees that emotional response softening, lessening and being able to process what's going on so that a law loud sound is no longer induces hitting the ground as if there was a mortar next to you. You talk also in the book a lot about the flow state, and I sort of sense it actually when I'm in the operating room when the world goes away, I don't know what time it is, and I bue. By the way, the reason that I bring this up is because for many people, they don't have any flow state experience in their day to day life, so it prevents them from reaching that nirvanic condition that I think sort of recharges your energy your cheek. So what is going on the level of the cell when you're in that flow state. I think cells are alive and vital and they're all working together in that state, and so the best of what the body can provide is now working when there's flow through the body. Obviously, we experience our emotions in a certain way, we experience very clear cognitive function, and we're totally present, you know, I suspect in the e are when you're working, there's nothing else going on in your head, completely present. That's one of the um modes of getting to that state of flow. When you can't get into that flow state, it destroys all the harmony within your body, the actual vibrations in ourselves being those alive. For me, I mean, how does the flow that's going through you vibration a ly changing? Can you do that by listening to music or are there mechanical ways of doing it? Some people do it by listening to music, but meditations one of the ways of getting there, of whatever it takes to get to total quiet where your mind is not just chattering at you, and then there is the experience of energy flowing through the body and through the cells from one cell to another. I can imagine that the nanotubes are working away saying, you know, hey, this is going on over here, what's going on over there? So the whole body is resonating with that flow. Have we ever yet look to look at those nanotubes and see cells talk differently into each other? Yeah? Published in the journal Science and what did the show? Because I mean it shows that that one nantitube touches another cell and it sends a tiny packet of some biochemistry. So there's two kinds of information tactle information and biochemical information that goes from cell to cell. That's perfect. Dr George Hawks, thank you very much your book, Cell Level Healing, the bridge from soul to sell let's say, hardcore scientists breaking the ice on energy healing. Thank you joining us

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