All The SmokeShawn Kemp Opens Up On Downfall of 90’s Sonics, Bond with Gary Payton, Facing MJ in 1996 Finals
One of the greatest dunkers the world has ever seen joins ALL THE SMOKE for an incredible episode. 6x All-Star, Shawn Kemp, sits down with Matt and Stak to reflect on his highlight filled career, including his chemistry with Gary Payton, facing off with MJ in the Finals, how he got his athleticism and dunking ability, and why he thinks Bill Russell is the GOAT. Plus, 'The Reignman' explains why he thinks he deserves to be in the HOF, discusses his relationship with Bobby Knight and why he snubbed Indiana for Kentucky, and shares an amazing story about getting sh*t talked by Larry Bird.
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This is Matt Barnes. You're listening to All the Smoke before you dive in. If you want to listen to uninterrupted episodes, you can unlock ad free listening right now with the subscription of Black Effects Plus. Just click to subscribe at the top of the All the Smoke Show page on Apple Podcasts. Hmmmm, welcome back All the Smoke the La Run.
Jack's been a hell of a day, man, hell of a day. He started with Reggie Bush, then we did Nate Diz yep, and now, like I don't get too excited, like I like appreciate and respect everybody that comes to the show, but this one got me excited.
This one got an nounce out of bed. She's six months pregnant.
Yeah, we don't have too many big homies. Come on off our big homies.
The one and only man.
Welcome to the show, Sean kemp Man oh Man, Thanks, thank you, Thank you man. It's truly an honor. You know, Jack and I both started hitting on the DM, like, yeah, one of us, He's going to respond to one of us. Let's both keep pressing him. But just huge fan obviously, fourteen year pro six time All Star, uh I was talking about you the other day before I even knew he was gonna come on the show, Like, you made Dunkin look cool for big dudes, because it's hard for big dudes look sweet like you was out there and looking like a six ten guard. Someone called you a six ten Vince Carter Alonzo morning called you a six of course, yeah, talk about where that Just the veracity and your athleticism and all that came.
From manly, just it comes from from early on. I think, you know, playing ball in Indiana first of all, and it is a good state to play basketball. But what happens is when you're a big kid, when you grow up and you're tall, generally you want to play and you want to do other things and just run and shoot hook shots and stuff. So my goal, my goal growing up, man was kind of I want to do kind of all the things that the little guys did. You see what I'm saying, But I really couldn't. You know, I grew up with leg braces on because I kind of grew it was very very uncoordinated growing up a lot of people don't know that almost goofy to the point. And then you know, as I got towards junior high and high school. My coordination kind of caught up to it. And you know, hard work pays off, man. You know, seriously, when I tell you guys this, I mean that as one of those kids who just dream, come from the ghetto, come from nothing, and just dream. You know, my mom didn't play ball, my dad didn't play no ball. So everything that I that I came up with was had to be earned and had to be you had to go out there and work on those skills.
Man. So it was.
About learning how to dribble the basketball left hand right, hen, being able to shoot the ball left hand right, hen, being able to do everything. And then when you grow up, man, and you start to realize you got some athleticsism and you're like, man, I can really do some things. You know, this is this is this is this is kind of fun.
You know.
You know, I was already playing against some NBA players when I was in ninth grade, eighth and ninth grade, and it was kind of was giving them the business, you know. So I kind of knew that my talent, so I just worked on it.
You know.
So my high school coach would bring me into the gym every day before school about five thirty in the morning for me to work on big man drills, footwork drills, dribble the ball left hand right.
How tall were you in high school? So freshman year the senior?
How much did you grow then?
I started off high school as a freshman man. I started off at six seven, six eight. By the time I was a senior, I was six ten and a half almost sixty eleven. How to do everything and playing against Alonso, a guy likelives of morning since seventh grade, Alan Houston since seventh grade, Billy oh And since seventh grade. So you know, uh, the talent was out there. You know it was you had to earn. It wasn't like it was just given these guys. Was these guys was very talented.
You know.
Two of the best guys that I grew up playing against man was Materio Green and and uh Muhammad a roof. Chris Jackson say, we're all the same age with them boys right there, you play some serious basketball.
Man Moved.
Mike Move was a real good player, you know, he was real talented. Bro.
A lot of you appears from the nineties in the Hall of Fame, Miss Richmond, Grant Hill, Chris Webber, Tim Hardaway all in the Hall of Fame? Is it time in the Hall of Fame?
But I think so. You know, I've always said that, you know, those first eight or nine years that I had was was was pretty good, pretty solid, you know, pretty solid. And and also I will tell you this, I'm a six time All Starry So that's you know, those six times, those six games that I started. You know who I had to beat out? You know, that was Charles, That's Karl Malone. That's every year. Yeah, so that's pretty consistent basketball.
You know.
I will say this sough me going through some problems and stuff that I went through in my career also hurts you at the end. But I think when you look at the good side of it and you compare the numbers and stuff, I'm right there with some of the best ones. Absolutely.
Would you mind opening up and sharing and talking about them problems. We don't have to if you don't want to.
But well, I'm not afraid to talk about it. I mean, obviously, I think when anytime that you you go your body shape goes from this to that, and you gain weight, or you have some drug problems in any any anything like that is always going to be highlighted. You know what I'm saying. So I understand those you have those marks against you, But the dominance I think of what I played with through those early years of my career, I think it should definitely be highlighted, without a doubt.
I came from two parents that were functioning drug addicts.
I grew up in it, seen it, dad sold it.
Were there are times where you were out there at your best, making all Star appearances and being great leading your team when you were on drugs.
No, not necessarily on drugs, I believe. I believe when my drug where drug issues probably came, and it was more when being started to go sideways, when I was having some problems with the organization. So I think, you know, as far as I was concerned, when you put so much into the game of basketball, when you when you say that you're going to become the best, when you say that you're going to become dominant, it takes a lot of time, man, a lot of effort, right, And I don't think what people realize. I don't and I don't even try to make them realize this. When I would just say this at the time of playing basketball in the nineties was a very physical sport, right, It wasn't. It wasn't a weak mass for only the strong chavaz right. And you know, as you want to compete at those best at those best levels. So I don't think drugs really came into factor to me until probably when I started to lose. You know, when you start to lose your life.
Change, you know. So you know.
The one thing and I tell you, guys, just the one thing that I kind of regret about back then is that I'll say this is that you know, playing with Gary Payton, we had this great friendship, this great camaradi where we won so many games, winning fifty sixty games a year. You sometimes when you start to look at things far as it's financial, sometimes you put that ahead of what you have chemistry wise.
You know.
I tell Gary this all the time. If I could go back and change a few things we were, probably both of us would probably work on being with each other, playing with each other a little bit longer.
Than what we did.
Absolutely, What's the Story out? So I did voiceovers for this show called What's Real Stories of Basketball? And it was when they brought Old Boy and that average like four points and two rebounds anything maclvain. So I did the voiceover for that seed you talked on it and everything, So I did the voiceover for that, and I didn't obviously I was younger when that happened, so I didn't realize, like.
Damn, why would he leave?
But I read how you know they came in four years on note like they came in and gave Jim mcavain, someone who didn't play, didn't do anything, a bunch of money. This dude led the team every in rebounds, scoring, to the to the playoffs, to the and he was making more than Sean So that you at the time, right, so that maybe some more things. But like I said, that's the kind of what I got.
But I think you know, to me, it wasn't necessarily about the money.
It's more about the respect, right, come on, man? Like it, Come on, man.
It takes a great effort, absolutely the best every day, and when you do that consistently for year after year, order for that. Yeah, But absolutely I think and I'm just telling you this when I look at it now, I look at it back and I'm probably as a young man you're going through that, you probably take it personally, YEA in life and in business, one of the things that you don't do is take things personally. Once you take it personally, it's going to affect not only who you are, but also what you do.
But I assume, with all due respect, it's hard not to And I in no way do I want people to make it think like you were mad about someone else get money.
That wasn't what I got from. What it was was it was the respect factor. But you would.
Accomplish with that team you deserved more than what you were.
Well, I think that's I think that's what you do when you're a player. You're working, You're working for that, that's what you those steps, those are the things that you're working for. And man, I was one of those guys who who who kind of went in there was just like, hey, what do I need to do to become you know, the best? What do I need to do to become one of the highest paid you know? And I can remember the conversation the general manager. The general manager came to me and he was like, well, if you if you want to be the one of the highest paid, then all yeah I do is go out there. I played Michael Jordan and I was like, okay, well, well, a couple of years later we play in the championship, and uh, I look at it as an opportunity. That's an opportunity for me to shine, and it's also an opportunity for you to make more money. As they said, I mean, if I could outscore Michael Jordan this series then and also play well and help our team achieve what we try to achieve, then I'm gonna put myself in a pretty good position. Well I played well done those little things. But when it kind of when it came time for payday, there was no phone call. When you lose the series, that's what they do to you sometimes, man. You know, it's like, hey, I kind of forgot about that conversation before ahead, So you know, I think you know, and I say this, man, as a young man, you sometimes you take those things personal without a doubt. Those same things that you take personal, you sometimes don't take personal. And that's kind of what makes you, that's what kind of drives you. So you know, there were things that I probably didn't take personal that drove me, but that one right there definitely hurt me.
What's the biggest misconception about Sean Camp? Uh?
Biggest misconception is I have to be about UH would probably be about that or either about UH. I guess with the drugs and the things of that session. Like I said, those things really didn't come and play man until a little bit later in the game. But I think the miscommunication that I think with the public was just me wanting to have a personal relationship and not being broadcast with myself. And I think that's what really hurt me when you and I just say this man at the time, as a young man, you want to protect not only your image but kind of your life. Yeah, those people want to get inside your life. They want to know more about you. I had that wall up, and when you put that wall up, it definitely hurts you. I realized that.
Now let's get to your upbringing in El Card Indiana, who was to state basketball was crazy. The urban legend is you dunked on the Pacer center when he was fourteen.
That's true, very true. Who wasn't it, Who wasn't I caught the big fellow. It was No, it wasn't Rich Swiss. It was a big seven footer. I have to look back, but he actually came to my school and we we played one on one in front of the kids. So you were a freshman probably eighth grade. Oh, you know, it was a My coach gave me to not. He had already told me you don't get him, you don't get him good. So my coach gave me to not. He was like attacking, So I just went to dunking on him. Man left.
Eighth grade.
Yeah, eighth grade, bro, you know so I mean, And I'll tell you guys this, Me and my coach actually had talks with We were talking to colleges and NBA teams in ninth grade. I was saying, I was trying to tell them that I was ready in ninth grade. They were trying to tell me that I needed some more maturity, you know what I'm saying. So we were talking to schools and stuff early on. I was I was definitely a little bit ahead of my time far as a strength and conditioning. And you know, they just come from growing up on the streets, bro, you know, from milk Hard, Indiana. We don't claim any fame to be anything. That's kind of the gunner of the world really when you think about it. But I will tell you this, man, when you grew up around that area between Chicago, Detroit, Indianapolis, Ohio, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Louisville. When you grew up in the middle of all those places, you see things. Those things make you tough, they make you, or they break you. The average kid that I grew up with usually went to jail or dead or dead and went out a doubt, probably seven out of ten. So I always felt great just making it through, being able to represent the city of Elkharre, the state of Indiana in the positive way and then the best way possible. And that's just to be successful in life.
Bobby Knight mob Ties pulled away your mister basketball because you didn't want to rock with him?
Absolutely, yeah, very true.
Man.
You know I was very close to Coach Knight at one time. You said, we had a great relationship, you know whatever. There was things I said, Coach Knight, do you can rock with did? I didn't like. Now I will say this, he didn't do those things to hurt you. He didn't do those things to to you know, to discriminate them. Things was done just just to push you. That was his way of motivation. It was an old school way of doing things, and he was still doing it and I made the decision late in the game, but very late in the game, to switch schools, switch schools and go to Kentucky. Coach Knight was very upset about that. And that's because we had a great relationship. One off it sounds Patrick. We actually grew up playing AAU basketball together, so I was able to spend time with some time with the Sun, time with Coach Knight. We had a you know, a great relationship. But you know, I've seen a few things that made me question when you're a young man, when you see some of them things, you know, you like damn coaches out there.
Yeah, I can't deal with that.
Yeah, I can't deal with that. It's an easy way to do things. So you know, I thought by going to Kentucky that would be better. But you know, once I went to Kentucky, they actually went on probation. Man. That's what the problem was. They went on probation before I even got to school to go to school there. You know, one of my good friends is Chris Mills. M you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, Chris Mills. Me and Chris Mills. Well, I grew up. I played my AE basketball out here now Los Angeles. I played for cine Monica. I played out in the Valley cine Monica. I played with Mitchell Butler, Chris Mills, you know, Chris daddy was my daddy.
Did you ever come up here and play in the U c. A Men's gym in the summertime?
Absolutely?
I missed.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah absolutely.
Was it true that you almost went to un O V with Larry Johnson?
Absolutely? So basically I was actually when I was at Trinity Valley and that was it was a decision, But I go to Trinity Valley, I do I go to UH out of the Western Texas and go to school with Larry Johnson. Well, I actually called I actually called him, got a hold of magic and talk to him and ask him his opinion. And then he told me. He told me he thought, you know, he thought I was ready. Well he played with me in the summertime and he thought I was ready. So you know, by that time, I went to Trinity Valley just for a few weeks, and then I moved out here to LA. I was training. I was actually living here in Los Angeles, playing in U c. L A every day.
What year was that?
This would have been nineteen eighty eight, This would have been nineteen eighty eight and the Sonics owner son was going to UCLA. At UCLA for a long time. Boy, Yeah yeah. Magic was the king of the courts at the time. Magic was may we come down court. Magic will kick you and one qualifoul every time down court.
You know you can't argue with its true, you know you can't.
He can't argue with Magic.
So he was doing was he was.
He was working us at the gym every day.
Man, he was doing that. Ten years later, ninety eight, when I came down here. It's funny.
We had a show with him, a live show with him, and I went to the bathroom real quick, and Paul Pierce came up on stage because he's in the crowd. He started talking about Magic. He was cheating on them runs.
Yeah yeah, I mean that's like around the table he had the he started to create the Midnight Uh yeah, I got chance to open that stuff. That Magic. No no, no, no, no, yeah no.
No, that that's so l A l E n least summer nights.
Absolutely. I mean as I as I came into the NBA and I looked at this whole the whole NBA league, I was looking at Magic mid summer nights. I was looking at what Magic was doing, how he played the game, what he did. I was looking at everything. I was studying Magic when he was in Michigan State. I was studying his game. One of the guys I grew up playing with is Scott Skoules, Jack Love Scottscotts.
I don't don't.
Scott Scouts is a bad boy man, different dude.
Man.
He get under eat your skill.
He got up under mine where I stayed home.
You know, man, I'm saying, say, I used to watch man. I tell you, I used to watch Scott Scouts when I was in seventh grade. And he would come and play against the all black schools and they was trying to knock him out and stuff. And he would tell these brothers, man, I'll get y'all forty five, and he would hit forty five and he wouldn't score no more.
Like that.
He probably would have whooped your ass too. Jack.
I don't know about that. I don't know about that. I don't know about that.
He turned Jack.
Jack went on a mixtape tour that season with the Bucks. Yeah, I couldn't play them. So is this an urban legend? You got your first practice through a radio dunk contest?
Is that crazy at what? Man? Yeah, I'm gonna keep I'm gonna tell you what the truth too. Now I'm in college and Trinity Valley and we ain't but two damn restaurants there. It's a dairy Queen and the McDonald that's your choice of restaurants. You go out too, Bro and uh in Eastern Texas and they came on the radio and they was like this. They say, Hey, there's a dunk contest next Friday night and the winner and the winner the dunk contest gets to practice with the Mavericks all week here. Three practices, yes, they said, three practices if you win the on contest. So everybody in the every junior college around Texas was trying to get in their motherfucker man. I mean you name it, Sino Tyler, you every every last school man. We was down there after the Dallas Na then was probably six contestants, man, and I want the dunk contest that night, and Uh, I got a chance to practice with the Mavericks. Now I get to the Mavericks practice and guess who's on the damn team My teammates that the strip Sam Perkins. They on the They on the team, and I am. I come in and I guess you get a chance to practice with him? Where they let me practice one day? I bullshit you not, So if you don't. There's a guy that works for the Mavericks man light skinned guy, Chris. His name is Chris something. Man. I can't take to Chris's last name. He still works for the Mavericks. I believe their TV guy.
We'll find him.
He was on the radio. He was on the radio. He actually they sent me to the locker room. He actually came in the locker room. And this is where it kind of started at. This is the night where the shit started at you know, Juny College. You h get the motherfucker. He ain't ship popping off. You ain't in Kentucky no more. Chris Arnold, Chris Arnold. So Chris Arnold comes back in the locker room and he was like, hey, well what he's like, you ain't got no agent? And I was like, man, He's like he was like that, let me be your agent. Man, you go you gonna go hardship tomorrow. And then I was like, man, you taking him ready?
Shit?
I didn't know if I was ready then, But by the time I got back to Trinity Valley, I knew my ass was ready. He just told me that, and that's when I started making these inquiring phone calls.
Man.
You know, at the time eighteen, I still needed my mom's signature to kind of get me into the league. At the time, they was doing it like that. So yeah, man, that's that's really where it started off at bro. Yeah, it was like I was like, Okay, don't want me to practice with him, and I played with Delft and Sam and we never talked about that because they knew I was in the ass.
That's crazy, bro, Absolutely, Yeah.
You went to the league seventeenth pick. He was a mentor by Xavier McDaniel.
X Man, how was that, man, the best, best, best when the best thing that happened to me is getting drafted by Seattle. Seriously, you know, and uh Sean Kellri sives a lot of praise, but the truth of it is this, man, I got drafted by Seattle. They had some dogs on their team. Man, they had their x Man Dale Ellis. You know, they had Nate McMillan, they had Derrick McKee, Olden Polonies. Yeah, man, they had they had they had a whole They have some good ass ballers. Bro it was all about the same size. So you know, these guys tried to kick my ass at first, but we battled, ended up having a brotherhood and they end up teaching me. It was so you know at the time, man, let me I tell you this. At the time, you know, shit has changed in the NBA at the time that I came into the n b A, I was the first of these guys that come in. They didn't believe shit that you said. They didn't believe anything anything that you told them. They didn't really want to believe. You had to show them. Motherfuckers didn't believe you. Read they here's a piece of packer. Read this. I started, what you feel what I'm saying? And then, uh, I mean some of the teams was crazy, man, some of the there's one team motherfuckers put me in the gym with one of their best seven foots and uh, I guess they thought he was gonna timidate me and should they was? I guess they was skinny. He go, we won't put him in there with this seven two ugly motherfucker. He gonna timidate he We gonna run his ass back to college. Well, we got he got a little physical, he got a little physical up in there. Yeah, yeah, and uh and they seven two center was bleeding all out the mouth of those and ship by the time we got there playing, they had to come in there and stop that their workout. They had to stop the workout. So I had him Lincoln. So that was yeah, man, I'm a I'm you know, I I shouldn't even say this. It was the Phoenix Suns at the time. Man, But they put me in the gym with this big ass, monky ass and then they expected my fucking not to come out. They thought I ain't gonna come out to gym. Put him through these drills. I could tell they was like rough his his ass up. So I was like, lookude, you keep ruffing me up a fucking old ass up in this gym. That's exactly what happened, you, exactly what happened. So at the time, you know, at the time of coming into the league, at that time, brou there was no background. Man. I mean, I said, it was child to be it's what they was doing. So but I definitely needed I benefit off the practice of it. So I was going two hours in the morning, two hours at lunchtime, two hours in the evening, two hours later. May that's how much footwork and drilling that I needed.
Does the name Andrew Lang sound for me?
Yeah? Yeah, absolutely, Oh my god. Yeah, a lot of a lot of drilling, man and I needed at the time.
Bro.
But I think.
Greg wasn't there already. Greg was at un l V me and had a great me and had a great relationship. You know, while I was in high school. You know, un l V was a school that I really wanted to go to, but it was too far away from home. Okay, yeah, it was just too far away. Yeah, me and ger go back. I met gerg and Tark at e l V.
Yeah.
Man, they was, they was. They was very good friends of mine. Used to help me out, used to look out for me and give me words of you know, confident wisdom. Also with the players man at the time, Greg Anthony, guys of that sort. So you know, I benefit off talking to these guys.
Early on, X Man told a story on Tim Thomas The School Beast podcast about Library talking ship to you saying, yeah, I'm the best motherfucker man.
Dianna put it three into my balls. That's true.
It is very true. You know Larry hey Man, he first of all, we got to Boston and like he had this, he has some, he has some me pay and I was like for you to come over with me. I ain't going tonight.
You got.
Exactly. I look at the boy, I'm like, so you know, I look at the mirror. I'm like, well, ship, this mother fucking fits out here in the work. So I was before the game. I was over there rubbing my hands looking at him. I'm about to get your ass.
What year was this for you?
This was my first year?
Okay?
And that day they came out with that morning, they came out with a USA USA Today article and they said that Larry didn't have it no more. So he came out that night to make a statement and I was just the prime candidate. Yeah, before the game he told me, he was like he just shook his head and he said, man, it's gonna be a fucked up night for you.
So what do you put up?
I think he gave me what he gave me. I think he gave me forty forty six three?
What did you do?
But I end up found out, But I was on his mask. I'm gonna tell you this. I'm gonna tell you this way. I was on it. He was actually calling out bank shots. He would say, next time bank shot left side, I'm ana pump fake you your dumb ask you gonna go for it. He would tell you that, And it happened, and I said, I said, first of all, I'm gonna be so close to if you if you shoot the ball. Next said, I wanna try to rip your fucking arm off your shide what you take he did? Man, I clicked perfect dogg and you know for that ship here at you man, come on? Many was how cold? I don't think when I guarded his ass so tough. I guarded his ass so tough that after the game he came he sent the little letter over there to me. He was like, he was like, I've had nobody play defense that hard on me. I appreciate you playing out here that. He was like, I got a little All Star game. Whytn't you come work out women? Come to the All Star game? Man, let me see that summer. I was like ship that met everything to you guys, became a friend absolutely. So it went from him whooping my ass to him teaching me a few things. I surely appreciate that. And that's that's the old NBA. That's how I used to supposed to be. That's how it used to be.
Man.
That's why I think in the league the league suffers there because they don't have enough veterans. You gotta have two or three veterans on the bitch. They should they should have had in the in the bargaining contract. Always keep a couple of vets the bitch at least times called words of wisdom. Words of wisdom to them on the court.
Bridge the gap between the coaches, keep them out the pitfalls of the court. Like we've been saying this ship for the five years we've been on this show. We've been saying it.
But I played with a guy man years ago.
Man, it's.
I think he taught Michael Jordan how to play. It was Quentin Daily, you know. I think he was the one that kind of helped Michael Jordan, you know, balance his offensive game when they was in Chicago. When I played with Quentin Daily in Seattle, and Quintin Daly was a beast man.
You know.
He used to say little things to me, you know, instead of shooting the ball, get to the pay put a body on him. And what was work on your mid rage game? All that little shit?
You know?
You know nowadays they just running down shooting threes, finger over it. You know, the old school game. It used to be working that spot, getting into that mid rage, getting them solid jump shots off, shooting a high percentage. Now they just you know, if you shoot thirty percent, that's great.
How long did it take you to develop that mid range?
It took me, man, It took mean for about three four years, you know, three three four years. Yeah, I'm should I tell y'all, man, Man me Gary played. I played my first year by myself. Gary came in the second year. Uh, we was bawling, dunking, running on everybody. You see the highlights. And then my mother was like, fun that we're gonna start sagging off to go otherfuckers. We ain't gonna go for all that ship. So then, uh we started struggling. Me and Gary both were struggling. He couldn't get them layoups. I couldn't get the dunks. The teams was playing against us, so we you know, uh, the signing starting to trade both of us really is what happened.
Many they've been three year three.
Right after Casey Jones left Seattle. They was they were streighting to trade by me and Gary Damn.
Yeah.
So that summer when we had that, we went up. We was like, well, ship, well if they we ain't gonna we ain't gonna go out unless it's a fight. We're gonna were about to show they as something this year. So we went the whole summer and that's kind of when we started working out in Vegas with Gerd working on our game in Vegas, working on that mid range game. Just mid range two points, two points here, two points there, bouncing left hand, right hand off the glass, and then that's what made my game take off. Bro, That's that's what really did. Once once I learned how to bounce and started making that mid range, then I was able really to get to some dunks and do some explosive plays.
Oakland and Indiana came together. Yeah, absolutely, GP talked to us. I mean, obviously I want to hear about on the court, but I want to hear off the court. I mean, you guys captured a basketball and inspired and I played on that Lob City team.
Yeah.
I used to talk about you guys, and when we talk about us with Blake and DJ with you and GP used to do so, I mean, you guys just kind of captivated the world.
What was that?
What was that like on air?
It's good. Me and Gary clicked from day one, bro, you know, so we was able to click, not just on that court, but off the court, hang out, shoe pool together. And still to this day we still work with each other and do stuff with each other. All the graph sessions, uh, you know, should I sell his weed products in my stores? All all that ship So we we still look out for each other and work with each other. But you know, at the time, the thing with Gary is that we can motherfuck each other. You know what I'm saying, Look, get your mother fucking shit together, get your shit together respected, you know. And he would get in my face, He's like, look, mother fuck, get your ship together. Yeah, you're playing against David Robinson until Duncan fucked him, you still got to go up in there dunk on the mother And that's just how it was. And he was the first player that I played with that we could have that type of relationship, you know what I'm saying. He would call me out on my ship and I could call his ass out on the ship.
You know.
I remember a night in Philadelphia, Dog, we was cossing each other out so bad man. You know, you know, if you you to taught, we hated each other, but we came back in the second half of worship. I feel you see what I'm saying, that's what that's what type of relationship we had. Definitely fed off that. You know, we off that. My mom and his mom before she passed away, was good friends. H You know, I'm glad I've been with around his kids. He's been around my kids all day life. So I respect you shit out, Gary, Man. I'm happy for him. He's always been a smart, intuitive player, but definitely I was the one that's always been pushing him on that court, and it truly showed after we didn't play with each other. I think both of our careers, you know, went a little sideways.
So that was one thing you wish if you can go up, that would be the one thing that yeah.
Man, if the one thing, no doubt about it, man, the one thing if I go back, Man, we don't break that relationship. We don't break that relationship. Matter of fact, like when I tell him, now, say we go back, man, we're supposed to go up in there in the office and tell them to make that shit work instead of getting mad and getting upset about this and that, we're supposed to go up in there and be like, yo, this is what we need, you know, because that's what they do to us when.
We was y'all, I mean not to cut you off. I know players later on we're going in and talking to manager like that where you guys ask players doing that at that time, that was early.
On absolutely, man, we was. We was very intuitive with the coaches and ship in the management, telling them what we wanted, you know, to go back and like to tell y'all, I was the reason Michael Vain came to Seattle because of me. I was the one that noticed him on the court. I ain't gonna say, paid this my fucking sixty something points, but I like I told Jim Man, don't turn down no free fucking money, right, don't don't you turn out? And I love him to death as a friend, still do. He didn't make a bad decision at all. That was a team's fault for that, So I don't hold anything against Jim Man. Jim was a great guy when we played with each other. We worked out with each other in the morning. I respect him, but that was the team's decision to do that, so it wasn't personal.
Tell us a story about GP going at MJ in the preseasonn you.
Know, uh, Man, Like like with myself, Man, I'm one of them guys who always believe in motivating cats man. You know, like they said, people got different ways of motivating, and in the hood, we motivate. We motivate people differently, you know. We we don't always slap you on your ass and tell you a good job to motivate you.
You know.
You know when I used to see Michael Jordan and I would see Gary, I would go over and whisper some ship in Gary's ear. There he is, he's about to kill your ass because I know that's gonna get I know that's gonna get underneath the skied man. But I know that's gonna bring the best out of it. That's the only reason I do that. Make And at the time, at the time when I would do this to Gary, it wasn't because I didn't think less of man. It's because I knew this boy could play.
Some serious des could he could he push your buttons. He would, Man, he knew exactly what. But yeah, he knew exactly we kind of you know, and he you know, spa come on if we planned it against one of these singers, he's Patrick going, yeah, oh yeah, come over, don't let me figure don't let me go to the hole and finger rolling.
Yeah we figure over, No, saw Ship.
We finger roll in the night.
Yeah, he was tearing around down there. You got these boy man. Yeah, absolutely, Man, we had that type of relationship.
I love to hear.
I love to hear.
So Saw This went fifty five plus games, five years in a row, ninety three to ninety seven. Ninety three lost in game seven to Charles Barklay and the Suns. Barkley shot twenty two. God damn free though, Yeah cheat, I think you cheat a lot of three. Yeah, who was wrapping? Remember who was reffing back then?
Tim was he?
Yes, he was Donny.
He was on that game.
God damn Tim. You just fuck there a boy? The ship up.
Cut it out.
They shot down their fifty free throws. We think we shot eight or nine free throws. They shot They wanted they wanted Phoenix to get to the championship. Yeah, but you know, I will say this though too.
Man.
You know it's still it's just in the game today, aggressive play wins. You know, whoever gets to the free throw line the most of the time, who's gonna be the first one, the first one to create contact and the first one to get to that free throw line, that's gonna win the game. It still goes to today's game. There ain't nothing changed.
Years later, ninety first round exits in ninety four, you become the first one seed to lose to an eight seed demper if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah, man, you gotta have the right chemistry. You know, when when you look back at our at our at our years that we had bro you know, the year with Michael Jordan going to the championship, that was okay, but we actually lost that. We lost before that, man, our years of winning the championship came when Michael was retired and Houston win those two championships. That's when we were supposed to take advantage of we were supposed to get one of them Marines right there. But what happens is when you when you're making so many changes on the team and the chemistry gets off, marn sometimes you bring in them. Well, they don't take but one or two bad people to bring in. Don't pike up the chemistry. Mothers, don't want to pass the ball later in the game, get to shoot that ship. You know when when somebody do that, the next person started doing that. So, uh, I think in a couple of years when we have some problems with some selfish play with some players and stuff, and uh, the result is that is that you up three zero and if you if you don't bring it, you're gonna lose four four straight in which we did. And there were some young boys with dinner, some young dogs. It was hungry, and they was motivated by beating some some veterans, some savvy veterans, and they just whipped our ass like they were supposed to.
You finally break through, You sweep Dream and Clyde beat Stocking them alone in seven you get to Mike, You're revenue twenty three and ten in the finals.
What was that?
We got GP start. We had GP a couple of years ago.
GP said if GP said, if they would have put him on our MJ earlier, y'all would have won it.
Yeah, Gary was having had They had a couple of little injuries he had, so they didn't want to exert him. At first, they put that lia on Michael Jordan, which didn't go well. I mean, I mean, look at it. Dedland is a great player. I mean he is man. I don't think it was fair to him all of a sudden. You know, you come on, you know what I'm saying. If anything, you pull somebody off the bench and pull on Michael Jordan, they can just waste files and be physical with him. But you know, you come out there being soft with Michael, He's gonna take advantage of you. And that's exactly what happened. But Michael wasn't the reason he didn't beat us in the championship. He did not beat us. Man was on his ass, but he didn't beat us. Dennis Robbins the one who we had no answer for. His ass man. Really, we had no answer for Dennis Robbins. I mean, every time that they needed a second shot or something special, extra rebound or chippion, this motherfucker was flying and weaking, and I mean he said winking and winking and tisting and ship frustrating everybody on the team. Man's not even like that. He just do that Ship just just doing that ship. He had my team just flustered.
Man, what kind of ship would he do?
Uh, I'm gonna tell you what. Frank mcconsky. Man then this month and dinner started wearing color contacts. The championship, he started wearing color color contacts in the Championship with some lip ship on man. He would be like he was trying to kiss Frank's arm and the ship, and then Frank just couldn't take it. Man, it was just the man and him just couldn't allow it. Dinn's new buttons to push, man, we need to freak the rebound. He got him all discombobulated.
Man.
So yeah, my god, absolutely, man, Dennis Robert, he I was his defense man's well me, I mean his defense was good. It wasn't. I mean, he wasn't just too big for dinner, right, you know what I'm saying, I'm a little bit too big for dinner. I don't think that's a fair agile too. But his defense was great.
Man.
Like I said, he was just tipping the ball and rebounding high knee and doing all this silly ship man, all all the ship that you hate to see, and they needed. Yeah, that's exactly what they need.
Man.
Scotty Pipping is great man. You know, I play with Pipping in Portland. I just say this, but sometimes the people don't get Pipping his props. But Scottie Pippen was gonna be good ball player without Michael Jordan. He would have been a quality ball player without Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan definitely made him a little bit better. But my man, Scottie Pippen was still balling when he was in Portland.
You know.
He wasn't no match for Kobe when we were playing back then. Yeah, yeah, but Scotty was still balling.
Man.
He could still play the pass and lanes. He never been a great shooter, but he's just been athletic to do a lot of different things, you know, pass, scoring, rebounding, that's his game.
Talk.
What was Mike like in those finals? Talking just straight about business?
What was it like?
And well, we played Mike in the finals. Were trying to engage with him a lot, man. We really wanted him. We wanted physicality, We wanted to uh. We was trying to test him, but he wasn't. He wasn't going forward. He was focused all right.
Here was a picture right there.
No that's that's Gary. Gary was letting him know that he was getting in his ass. Because that's when they didn't put they took Gary. They took dadla f off. Michael put Gary on. So Gary, you know, I used to run down court and I'd be like, shortened the glove. I'd be like the glove can't give his back the ball away and gave him flashy glove to But that's you see Michael looking back. He flashing that glove side. He didn't like that ship. That's the ship. That's the ship. That's the ship there. That's you. You get Michael going. Man, when you see that look right there, you got some problems coming back because now he don't want to talk to you. Now he got something to prove to you. You got another problem.
Get a chance to know Mike off the court, not so much off the.
Court, but definitely battles on the court, man, definitely battles on the car respecting. I got a lot of mad respect for the man. You know, I've seen people be physical with Mike. I've seen him have a game plan to stop him. He altered his game plan every night. He couldn't stop him. Is he the best to ever played the game.
No, who is.
I mean, people get mad at me when I say this, spell but Bill Russell, Bill Russell, Bill Russell. You know what I'm saying. The best they ever played the game is not gonna be the league scorer. Best to play the game is gonna be one. It's gonna be in the middle doing a lot of different things because he's gonna be able to help people out. Keep the ball in play. Bill Russell was the first one blocking shots. Keep the ball in play. You know, we was blocking shots doing that shit, seventeen rolls up in the stairs. He was actually blocking shots and they was actually getting fucking layups off of him. So absolutely, man, I you know, as I look through the years of basketball, I think Will Chamber was a beast. But ship Bill Russell was wearing his ass up. So let's keep it real. If you're talking about the all around best player of the game, you look at and see how many championships they won, how long they did it, He's got to be up there, bro. So with that think, you know, I think unfortunately people forget about the age a little bit. People didn't get a chance to see those guys play. They don't really know the history of some of these older players played in the game back then, Elgin Baylor and some of these guys, but they didn't get a chance to see some of these guys. All they see is a couple of clips and now they forced to be able to look at Michael and Kobe and Lebron.
So with that said, Lebron is someone that was in a mix of doing everything. Where do you kind of have him in the hierarchy?
Man, I think Lebron is right up there. I don't think he's the best. Well, I don't think he has to be the best. And I don't think Lebron should be compared to Michael Jordan either. I think Lebron should be compared to Magic Johnson. Right. I think that you know, whoever started that ship up got it totally wrong.
Man.
Lebron is not no damn Michael Jordan's. Kobe is more like Michael Jordan, Bron is more like Magic Johnson. It's like they wanted to make a story for the news or something, I guess, so they just do their name up in there. But absolutely, man, I don't see how you could you really compare those two. He's such a bigger stronger person than what Michael Jordan was the most forceful person. You know. I just well, Lebron, I wonder. I don't know if he could have done that back when we played with all those big bodies. I don't I don't know. I'm not saying that he wouldn't have been a very good player, but I think his game would have had to change. He would have play, had to play more like he did in his younger years.
Yeah.
Absolutely, you saw m J at his peak and you you got you saw Kob a young Coke getting going.
Compare and contrast those two, man.
You know, with Kobe Man, it was I man, it was it was different.
Man.
I I used to uh, you know with Coche. You know, I had got this chance to play against Michael Jordan bruh. And when I got a chance to go against Kobe late in the season, I really wanted to test his ass.
Man.
I want to see if he was as strong as Michael was. So I used to uh. I used to have Ruben Pattison on my team, man, and I used to shake water and stop. I used to go around and just gas these guys up to play against Kobe man.
But it was.
Just I mean, I mean, and the thing about it, man, Kobe got mad at me for doing that ship and he was he was here.
Yeah, got asked pride out there. You gotta fake. I got Bonzie fried to you got as pride to Absolutely. I think that's what the game is about. If anything, man, did I miss about the game?
Is that locker room?
Yeah?
Yeah, fight bus ride card games. You remember, just tough ass press. You're sitting that motherfucker two three hours, that's right. No, just in your town, no shower yet, chopping it up.
Chopping it up. That's what about that.
Yeah.
The relationships that you have with the players and stuff. Absolutely, What does Duncan mean to you? Man?
You know.
Duncan. It didn't mean that much to me at first, man, But you know, I think, uh, I tell you all this, man, I wasn't really dunk in the basketball when I first got into the NBA. The motherfucker wasn't playing me enough. And I would sit on there, goddamn bitch late in the game and I'd be so furtherfucking man, and I'd be like the I mean, fuck, who was your coach at the time. It was Bernie Bickerstaff. And then that Uh, you know, I got. I got. My coach was one of those old black professional going straight by the book coaches, and Bertie used to have this, uh, this rule he used to tell me. He'd be like, look, he I'm gonna put your young ass in the game. You know what you use. You're playing right back tonight. When the motherfucking veterans throw the ball back, you throw it right back to the ass and go set a pitch. If it ain't a dunk, if it ain't a dunk, don't shoot it. Look look at me. If it ain't matter of fact, if it ain't a dunk, if you shoot that motherfucker, you run your ass right right back over here and shit your ass. Then that's what you do. I have to play like that, boy, man, it's tough to play like that. And then he knew what he was doing there. One night he came to me, man, and he was just like, well, Ship, I'm gonna let you loose, my baby boy. That's sweet whiter finger roll ship you be doing. I want to see all that ship you make. I'm gonna let you loose. Don't fucking embarrass you. Don't go crazy on me, he said. But yeah, it's my rookie season too. And then that was against uh that would have been that had been against Charles Barkle, no doubt. So that was like the first would have been the first twenty point game that I got against that against yourself, Philadelphia, And then they got a little more trust.
Than me and did that game kind of change and start.
Man, it was a tough game because at the time, you know, when I came in, theyoul having me into two guard. I'm skinny, I'm playing the two guard in the three.
Yeah.
Man, it was tough. It's not yeah, So you know, and uh, back then they was they give you that jad it was jabbing you went to two steps, and man, it was. It was a tough catch up for me.
Man.
So I felt like I was getting on a lot of foul property. Absolutely. So you know, I I said to myself one night, man, we ain't getting no rebounds. Let me just go ahead and just start grabbing motherfucking rebels. So once I did that, I got some rebounds, right, so I realized I could rebound the basketball. Well, my mom had told me something, man, she said, well, don't do none of that fancy ship until you get to uh somewhere big. So I waited till we got to New York. We got to New York and I told we're sitting on the end of the bench, and I told Daniel Barrows, I said, man, if you see me tonight, start my fucking in the middle something. Man, just throw it anywhere. I don't get where you throw it. Get that, he's like anyway, I said, just throw that day they just throw it up there. It's like that anywhere. I don't care where you threw it. And then you know, I made this one dunk, double pump, reverse dunk in New York.
Garden.
Stop bro, referee, stop, the ball just mounts. Pat Riley called the time out. You don't let this players because nobody was moving. It was in ad a little bit. Uh you know, I felt the crowd, I felt the ship. Well, I'll tell you all this man. In the next thirty days, I think I had fifty four dunks. So it just created a beast. I mean, when when I said about dunk and it wasn't, I went from duncan, I was trying to fucking rip it. I made this, no man, I would make this now. So on my bathroom mirror, every and my partners man, every anybody that was played. It was like a seven footer. We would cut a picture off of it, literal my damn mirror in my bathroom and then and I was like, you know, they was like you gotta get this, You gotta get this big fucking my boys would be like, you gotta get this big. I was like, won don't we just get everybody guards, big man, anybody there, whoever, It didn't matter. So it was just like my mindset, man, was just like I could just dump on any and everybody. It didn't matter. Five ft away, three feet away, double punt, reverse, double windmill, anything possible.
Man. It was like double wind It was just like just kept talking double windmill. Yeah. Man.
So it was just like, you know, trade was all statements, Yeah, do you have some do you have some favorites? Obviously the old listed one is big and we've.
Seen Ratland Gallon was a good one because he listen the story do I'm saying, But the truth of it is he is he tried to hurt me. That was a playoff game. He actually tried to hurt me before that. So he basically hit threw me to the ground kind of slammed me to the ground. I told his ass, we get your old ass back. We'll get you back. I know how to get you back. I ain't gonna fight you because we get kicked out, but I know how to get your ass. I'm gonna put you one of these posts, the ratling Gatlin. This is the one of my favorite ones because I couldn't believe this nigga really gave me that. I loved it, man. I was just man, well, he gave me that right there. I was just like, man, you know, and we were partners too, and I was just like, damn, got me. He's like damn, you know. And then that's what you're doing.
That what you lose how long?
Man? That's when they this was the first compression shorts they made, the first compression shorts they made.
Damn.
It came below your kneecap. You used to have to pull him up, man, It wasn't it. It was just your balls falling out on the side of Yeah. Man, come on, you've seen them clips. You got to come funk. When he's on balls, it's falling all out on the side of your shorts and ship. That's how it was.
Yeah, they wear them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I forgot to ask us when we was talking about GP when what was there a moment that clicked when the lib ship came together?
Absolutely? Absolutely, Man.
It was.
Boston Celtics playing out East.
One year and you're his his rookie year, his second year.
Second his second year. And Gary was like, uh, he said, for now, man, I don't give a funk if you run down corner. I'm just gonna start throwing this motherfucker because you bullshit, he said, So when I get the ball, look here, I'm just gonna throw the ship up to the realm. You just go go up there and get the ship. I don't get fucked. So it was like two or three places from Crock the ball. Just threw the ball up there, and I was like, let he said, go get.
The mother fucking ball.
Man.
You know he won't go jump up there. So then I was just like, man, should all right? All right? Come on. So we got to says this game we had particularly I think we had six lob duks, which is a lot we can running play. Then we started running the same play on the opposite side, and then he just started Then he just started just you know, running down court, just throwing the ship up anywhere and everywhere, and then the ship got fun. It was then it is really fun then at that point in time, man, cause the chemistry is there. Like I said, man, my mindset at that time.
Is that.
I mean, I'm coming from an area of el Current, Indiana, and you have no room not take sel. You can't. When you come from areas them country areas like some of us come from, there is no turning back. There is there is there's none of that. It's about figuring this shit out right. And that's how it was. Now these days, these kids got a lot of bigger, much opportunity because they're trained better. They got multiple early on where they teams and AAU and stuff. But back then is when you really had to put this work in because you didn't have all of these opportunities at hand in front of.
You like that.
What was it like when you guys were at the top of your game, U and G.
It was great. We was rockstar as well, basically traveling around and I tell you all this, man, The best thing about that is this is that being able to go to anybody's gym and match their energy and beat them knowing that you're going to win. Uh means everything, you know. With myself and Gary, I was the ball. I was on the ball, pressure on the ball up the court. He was behind me for he could get the stills. If he got the steals, then I was already on their place for these lobb dark. So we that's kind of we was kind of absolutely was playing cat mouse and just pressure and using our energy.
You know.
Like I said, at the time, we wasn't the greatest shooters at the time.
Uh.
That really took a lot of time man for us to get our shot and ship together. Coach Greg would We basically would go shoot every night, brou That's how much it meant to us. We went shot every night. We we did all all the little ship that the player gotta do to make himself better.
Can I get you a little shot? Yeah, sir, I love your storyteller. I just wanted ship to go on for the whole night. Where's your cup at, bro? You need to get out the bottles going on our new cut. Here's the more cup fright here. We appreciate your time, Bro. This is dope gg gg.
While my cups got out.
Greg was the he was the first coach man to be able to uh relate to the person.
You know.
The relate. A coach's relationship has got to be strong with you and your work ethic. You work your workhouse, you feel what I'm saying. Different Gerdy was different man. So he would actually study your game and then tell you what you need to work on, you know, and that looks absolutely Yeah. So basically giving you options, man, instead of like doing this, If you do this, you got you go left or right, staying more in the middle of the court. You got more options, y'all. Keep going baseline, you're killing yourself. So it was just all like a lot of little things, man, shooting the ball with a little art, shoot what your left hand shoot the ball, same way with your right hand. Just basically all fundamental of stuff man, Just capitalizing off the things you can do. Strip wise. Yeah, he first assistant coach, you making a million dollars in NBA. First assistant coach you making a million dollars. So he was he was definitely well worked.
It a.
You goodes me.
The long day.
Come on, let's finish strong, Jesse. You got this all for what you got this? I'm showing this tour. Sure, Okay, that's all. I ain't coming up nothing. I'm just showing all smoke toys.
Yeah.
Someone someone said, you chet about yourself and and still some ketchup on yourself.
No I didn't.
I just I'm just I'm just discovering that a catfish is too good. Go ahead, give me your five, you know, your list of your five most.
Ferocious dunkers of all time.
Man, I Daryl Dawkins. I try to say it wrong. Daryl Dawkins. People forget about chocolate.
Chocolate can't here.
He was naming and dunk. He was dunking the breaking back boys, breaking back boys, and you never really heard about it, but.
Dryl Dawkins, doctor Duncanstein.
Doctor Duncan Starn or Terrence Stansbury. A lot of these old guys. These are the guys I used to watch Dunk and the Basketball. David Thompson. David Thompson was one of the baddest, coldest donkeys ever. He was glad from the freak dunk in the sideways, dun two balls at one time. Come on, man, absolutely, absolutely absolutely, you know you know I realized that I could jump in high school when I could touch the top of the backboard.
It was yeah.
Once I could do that off a vertical leap, and my coach would have this drill where I would have to do a drop step, touch the backboard, top the top of the back board, run on the other post to drop step, touch the top of the backboard again. So you have to do this consecutive times, man. And like I said, it was just it was great. It just made me stronger. Absolutely, did you did you get it?
Uh huh?
Besides itself, you're there.
Oh and I'm gonna say, uh, Shack, No, I mean Shack is you know shock Shack is a different beast.
Dominique.
But Dominique wilkins Man, Domini Dominique wilkins if you if you watch me dunk, you gotta you gotta see a little Dominique and sign me. I was one of them young kids that was watching the TVs who were.
Doing yeah yeah.
Hawks man. We said it was like Dominque Wilke show. You know, domald Ship, Dominice got that ass curled up in his head. Let's go watch Dominique Wilkins Man. And so absolutely Dominicu Wilkins But.
I got a chance to play against him though, right, Yeah, how cold was he?
Man, he was a cold and I'm gonna tell you all this man, Dominique was so cold when he towards Achilles. He still came back dropping fifties and forties on people. People forget that he was still he was like thirty four, thirty five years old. He still came back. Dominique Wilkins was still dropping thirties and forties on people, fifties on people.
Man.
Absolutely, it was just a crying of shame. But a guy like Dominic didn't get a chance to play for a great team at the interview, Yeah, I always feel like those guys like Dominic should They should always give him at least one chance to play for a veteran team.
Pigeon toe where you're weaing?
A lot of players walk around fake, fake being pigeon toed because you yeah, that's.
What they.
Ship.
That's funny as hell. Man, I used to walk like that. Have to call de Shaun can't walk? Why do you Why did you leave Nike for reebok.
Oh?
Michael Michael and Charles Man had in the contract. Couldn't I could make more money than they could. Absolutely, Yeah, you a no one or you just know okay, okay, he wasn't gonna get and chuck at the time. Yeah, what just wasn't gonna happen. Man, So I looked at Rebok as a there's a way to get back to the hood. Get back in the hood, man, Yeah, you always I'm always my bad.
I don't Did you get what you deserved financially with Rebund?
I think so? Absolutely, I think so.
I do.
I think so, And I would still work with Reebok. But man, right now, right now, I'm trying to develop all shoes coming. I will do some shoes with some hip made out of him.
Interesting is a legendary.
Though, no, no doubt about it. But now you're gonna always be legendary without a doubt. Man. We still they still selling them.
We'll rock you, We'll rock them. Yeah, let us know, make some fourteens were in there.
That's a bet.
Yeah.
Train to do the Cavs in ninety seven, make the All Star Game, Uh, playoffs, first year in Cleveland.
Uh.
Then the lockout happens. Yeah, you show up the training camp overweight, and what happens?
Hey, man, hey, you back then, I'm gonna tell you back then, you didn't you didn't take the chance of hurting nobody on a big contracts. Man, if you heard get hurt during that lockout, that's on you. You know, was there things I probably could have did have gotten better shape? Absolutely absolutely it was. Was I mad about gaining weight, not at all, Not at all.
Man.
I'm playing for a young team in Cleveland. First year I was in Cleveland, Man, I realized I was gonna be gardened. I went from garden uh guys like Dennis Robin, Tony Kook coach. Now I'm guarding people like Patrick Ewing, every big center in the league. That little way helped me down there in Cleveland, Trust me, it did.
Man.
That first year I was in Cleveland, Man, the boys kicked my ass on the Eastern Conference. You don't realize how physical it is until you get out there on different it's a lot different, man. So that wait, that wait, actually, but I played my best basketball with that weight on me. My problem, my problem in Cleveland is I could get no veterans there. I can I you know, I played with ten rookies. Well we still made it to the second round.
M so was on that team.
I had uh Wesley person Bobby Sora, you know, yeah, you know sometimes he casts, Brandon Brandon Knight, now Chris went he had left. He left with the trade when I got when I came in, and uh yeah, just we had ten rookies and three ve three veterans.
That's crazy.
How was your time in Portland? She Bonzie pip ze Bo uh the nickname the jail Blazer. Yeah, what was that time like with that team?
Man? Man, we had some fun. I loved them casting Bonzie Rashid, Like I said, Scottie Man, the whole team, even Steve Kerr was on team. We love all them cats.
Man.
You know, our only problem in Portland was it La was a young Kobe and a young Shaq, and you know, and at the time Kobe and Shaq was competing against each other and it wasn't losing. It's just the truth of it. It was playing some serious basketball. If it wasn't for that, we probably won the championship one of those years.
I got a question when you when you was in Portland, do you remember, yeah, playing San Antonio and all y'all showing up in my house.
Yeah, the whole I talked to Bondis like we're gonna pull up.
I'm thinking she.
Pulled up that's that's how we used to roam bro That's what they used to.
And then what we got it in.
We had a great time. Absolutely, that's what it used to call it. We used to roll the whole squad. We roll together.
The whole team came to that's team was are we believe the same way?
Well, d all my brothers burning it down?
Yeah. Man, That's how the old league was. It wasn't as as you see these young guys today. They little stand offish kind of do their own things. That's let you know that. That money then came into play and everybody got their own ways of doing thing. But the way the old NBA was was guys that was unified.
Man.
Everybody had money too, but everybody had money and everybody was everybody was unique. But they definitely stayed together and communicated.
You know, you had some issues with speaking of money, money, what was what was it like when you were coming up? Was there any kind of guidance once you got that money or they had the NBA have any kind of guidance once you because obviously we all came from nothing into all that. Was there any kind of guidance coming up for you in that process? You kind of just trialing there.
Man. No, man, it was just family, you know, family, I think what my family have always always looked out for me and them them them regards. But absolutely, man, with that money, when you're making that much money, you got to be on top of it, you know. And if you're not on top of it, you better have a hell of a game plan to get back on top, right. And you know, and I always tell people this, man, it's great to play in NBA, and it's great to make that money playing basketball, but when you're done playing basketball, you better have a game plan together to be able to help you out financially. With myself, I'm still living off the money that I played played, So I feel fortunate, you know, I feel very fortunate, and you know, and obviously I'm still making more money on the side, but yeah, I feel fortunate to still be in that position to live off the money that I still played what years ago, I played basketball since two thousand and three, I believe.
So when you hear that after this next collecting bargain to given the max contract, players are gonna be making eighty ninety million per year, what.
Comes to mind? What could you have done in this era.
I mean, I take congratulations to these guys, but I think this is me saying is that these young men need to really be able to look at themselves and and and and handle their business professional wise with this money. When I came into the NBA, I'll say this, when when I came into the NBA years ago, in nineteen eighty nine, nineteen ninety Magic Johnson was probably the highest paid person in the NBA, and he was probably just making three or four million dollars. You understand, three or four million at the time.
I believe.
Around nineteen around ninety nine, ninety nine, two thousand is when the first hundred million dollar contract came in. And I want to I want to say it was either Larry Johnson or Kevin Garnett. You know, so that hasn't been that long. When these contracts have been really big, I had no idea that they were going to expand to where they have expanded to today. Right, So you know, with these with these now comes a great deal of responsibility. With these young guys making this funny, you know, it was a responsibility for us to do that. But now with these guys making thirty, forty fifty, I mean, Lebron probably make fifty something sixty million dollars a year this year. I mean, Colon man, that's it's a lot of money. And uh, now I'm happy for these young guys. But as yet I will say is that's a big responsibility. Uh basketball is not the only thing that they need to focus on. They need to focus on their money off.
So cannabis, let's talk about cannabis plus, Like, we all feel like we had a hand in cannabis being legal for players. Now, what does cannabis mean to you and what was the stigma of cannabis when you was in the league.
Well, the stigma in cannabis is that they was treating it like heroin. Yeah, absolutely, and they made you and if you got caught with it, they made you feel like you was actually a horrible person, you know, the most worst person in the world. I mean, was use a piece of shit. I mean seriously. So it's great to see that they've uplifted some of these laws with the cannabis. I wouldn't have cared about smoking the weed, but I just think with the lotions and the creams that right there would have let me play at least another three or four years along, just if I could have used the lotions. Yeah, even the teachers. Absolutely, So, I think these guys got a great chance right now to be able to have their bodies recover regardless if they use cannabis, if they use something else. But if they are, they just got to make sure that they're using the right thing, whether they smoking it or using teachers or whatever. There's so many avenues of using cannabis these days, you know. So they're having Heller's, they you name it. So there's so many avenues of using these things nowadays that these guys got a big opportunity to be able to make their bodies recover fast.
It shouldn't be what they called it when they're not playing low management all it was weed. Now you shouldn't be low man. Yeah there flying like a kite.
Did you smoke while you played?
Absolutely?
So what would you do the past? The drug test at my house when we were playing, So what would you so? What would you do the past test?
You don't have to pass the test once a year?
So yeah, what was what was your last? What was your last?
Two thousand and three?
So I want to say, was it five?
When it changed? It used to go from one because I came into three. It was one random until like five, and then it was four. It was excuse me, not one one preseason test because we'd all be rolled up in the car waiting for it to get that So you never had the four.
Two thousand and three was going down down.
Yeah.
Yeah, did you take one test and you was good?
What were you talking about?
Yeah, I mean before that it was no test. I mean that that didn't that didn't pop off until ninety nine.
That's when I started.
That's when I started. Yeah, ninety nine. Yeah, before then, they didn't even test for weed. Right after that lockout. Yeah, it was after that lockout, after Berkeley slept ship out Oakley sp.
There.
Yeah, all kind of told us about it.
No, man, that was I mean ship it was a big players meeting. Man, I you know, it happens fast, man. You know, Okay, my boy, man, that's that's my dog, no doubt. He is definitely the big homie. He's one you're not gonna talk and mouth off to know they happened. Man, he's that ship out child Stocktor snaps. You have one of the biggest dispersements in Seattle.
Three. Excuse me, kimp cannabis.
Yeah, kept cannabis were doing it, bro.
It is succeeding. Succeeding in the cannabis space isn't easy. What do you feel like you've done? Correct?
Man? I think just reach out to the community. Be a part of the community. First of all, is what you have. That's who's supporting you. That's who supports you. Say, you gotta you gotta, you gotta reach out to the community. You gotta be there for him. You gotta respect them, you gotta develop a relationship with them, and uh, you gotta have some fire obviously.
So you also got to let them know that you ain't playing because when you steal my ship, I'm gonna pull up and let off a couple of shots.
Yeah that too, that too, Yeah, that too, that too, that too. Mind the motherfucker heartbeat.
You figured out a side?
Yeah that too? Yeah, I love it.
Quick hitters man, first team to come to mind and let you let us know.
We dunk contests, including yourself U plus four dunckers.
Man, you know, I would love to love to see Vince Carter it one. Dwight Howard. Definitely, I got a lot of respect for doing Vin Dominique Wilkins, no doubt about it, bro. Yeah. And the reason I say that is because when we watch these dunk contests. Now, we watched them, but we're not feeling it. We're not feeling that. We're not feeling the thundery. We're not feeling that. Yeah, it's just been you know they we we finger tip Duncan. Now, let's just keep it real, man, we finger tip Duncan now.
Dugging at dunk contest. I was dugging in the gang. I gotta stop it.
Fingertip dunk. You don't feel that power? And I think yeah, with them guys, definitely. I think that's what the fans want to see when it comes to dunk. It's not so much in between the legs. It's not so much all fancy stuff. They actually want to feel that power. They want to see the explosiveness and you attacking the rim and trying to shatter the backboarders. They don't want to see all that cute shit. All these guys are getting so cute. They're cute and then they barely dunked about. They actually want to see. They want to see some thunder man motherfucker down, absolutely man. And I think That's what people had so much respect from my game as being that I played with that aggressiveness, you know, and being able to do this aggressive moves and these aggressive dunks. Not just in the first quarter you're doing but you're doing it in the fourth quarter. You're doing it in the fourth quarter with two minutes to go. When you're able to consistently do those things, then there's going to be attraction.
To you game.
You spoke on Dwhite Howard, and you respect this game. I got a chance to play with him. He was absolutely incredible. Bad situation coming with the Lakers with the hurt back. But what impressed you about Dwhite?
Well, I watched Dwhite Howard for years, and I was always amazed how agile he was to be able to get from one in the court to the other end of court, to be able to control the rebound and be able to get a dunkey and at the other at the other end of the court. And your best big mens used to be able to get from A to B real quick. Nowadays you see your best big man's they slow and methodical. You know, you got your boy from Denver, he slow, you guy from Dallas. I mean, hey, Luka is a great player, but he's really slow with the basketball, man, really really slow. So you know, to see the white back then go from point A to point B man and be able to control the board, get the ball and dunk it so quickly. That was very impressive. Yeah, I was a press vise game.
You have a childhood crush. Who's your childhood crush growing up? Man?
My childhood crush? Well yeah, I mean you know, uh my childhood my childhood crush.
Man.
We actually actually became good friends, man. But uh, Salt pepper Man, no doubt, man, Salt Peppering was always I always had a lot of respect for Salt pepper.
Man, and as we all did.
Yeah yeah, and then we we gotta we got a chance to become friends when I was playing and stuff. So it was definitely without a doubt. I always thought the two sisters is good.
One thing you wish you were better at.
Man, Uh, one thing got be better at man. I take all of us all we we all want to be better fathers to our kids, you know, I tak it's a challenge for all of us always to be a better person in life.
You know.
With myself, I think, uh I have a lot of respect for people. Therefore, you want to make these these changes to yourself. There not only yourself benefit, but the people around you benefit also. So just staying on top of your game, always remind yourself to stay on top of your game, be the best that you can be is a daily reminder from my self. And you know not to not to back down from any challenges, to face them on, work hard as you always have done, and uh and be successful.
Love it. One album you can listen to with no skips?
Oh man, I would have to say Wu Tang Clan, no doubt about it. Yeah yeah, thirty six Chambers and some of my boys right there. Man, you know, I look at them. We started off about the same time. We Yeah, our career started off about the same time.
Yeah.
Yeah, we know each other as well. I actually met the Wu Tang in New York before they even came out with their album. Yeah so I and we still good friends to this day.
Yeah.
So my fiance is best friend with his wife.
Okay, he's a man. Yeah yeah, absolutely guilty pleasure, guilty pleasure.
Man.
Right now, I would probably say my golf.
Game, golfing, Yeah, bring your clubs out golf gametet play my love.
I man I play. I like to play two three times a week. But man, I tell you, I'll tell you right now. I hit the ball along and straight. But I got no short game. I ain't got the patience for this. Be ready to tear half that ship up, the balls all that ship. I'm like, I missed that little short lived the little plutts.
Man.
It's like, come on, man, I got this ball.
All the way down, so you stay sucking up a good drive.
Man, I fuck it up.
Yeah, sir, one guess you would like to see all the smoke, but you have to help us get your answer on the show.
Yeah, man, I think without a doubt. Man, you gotta have me and Gary Paytone over here to say yes, yes, we can do it in Seattle. Well, yeah we can do it. We can do it live.
Don't play game, don't play games with us, bro, we can do this, man. We can do a live show about it.
Yes, live show.
We'll take care of everything.
That's gonna be crazy. Hell yeah it, no doubt about it.
Yeah.
Yeah. Catfish Corner, Yeah, Catfish Corner. Yeah, Fish Corner. They bring us some good corner brand and the green team pulling enough team. Oh my god, we've had everybody in the sun.
Man.
But I really enjoyed this, sir. It's been a blessing. You're someone that don't really get out and talk too much. That's why to me, it was so important to just get out and talk to your ship.
No, thank you, man, I appreciate you guys calling me Man. Proud of y'all too for what you're doing. Man, your game is strong in this business. Just keep doing what you're doing. There's always gonna be some some just keeping what you're doing.
No vision, man, that's a wrap. The one and only Sean Kemp need to be a Hall of Famer.
So with bullshit.
And you can catch this on all the Smoke Production YouTube and the DraftKings Network.
Man, we'll see y'all next week.
