Hi, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb and you have downloaded, hopefully subscribed and rated. Write a review for All Ball Reminded. The Doug gottlib Show is daily three to six Eastern, twelve to three Pacific, Fox Sports Radio, Fox Sports Trader dot Com, the I Heart Radio app, or you can download it as a podcast, just like you did this one, All Ball as I think most of you know who continue to download it, and the numbers are obscene and we really appreciate it. All Balls of place where you know, generally we keep you a basketball I've done, We've done football. I I encourage you to look through the archives. Teacher Hush Benzato was amazing, amazing, share with this his story. UM. But you know, in addition to sometimes commentary about basketball and specific things going on, you know like Rutger's upsetting per due at the buzzer and a half court shot doesn't really dissuay me from thinking produce a final four team, um or you know, going Zaga and their dominance over U c l A, their losses to Alabama and the loss to Duke again doesn't dissuay me does don't get put some caution in it. Uh, you know, you look at how Duke has looked for the most part, Like I think we see the gathering and and we'll know more about Butler, We'll know more about Arizona here in the coming weeks. So the thing is this, um, this podcast is not just reserved for any one thing. But what I do like to incorporate is long form interviews with people that have Everybody has a story, right, get their story, and sometimes you get really colorful stories and colorful backgrounds. If you're a hoop guy and you hear the name Max Good, You're like, oh yeah, am Max Good? You're like, what is your what is your impression of him? What? What is his name bring to mind? Of course, he was twice interim coach interim head coach in college UNO V and l M. You end up taken over at at loy La Mery mount Um, both times for Billy Byo. By the way, he's extremely close with bay No. There's a lot that goes into how he became Bayno's assistant. He was also a head coach once upon a time at Eastern Kentucky University, and of course the longtime head coach at Maine Central Institute. Which is at least when he was there an incredible prep school program in Maine, his home state, which is where he joins us from. I am going to put this out there. Okay, if you're driving for the holidays and it download this podcast. This is one to keep the earbuds in. Um I we we don't put any sort of boundaries on guests. This is a safe zone, if you will. And by his own accounts, he's inappropriate. But what you're gonna find in this first part of my Max Good interview is he's amazing personality. He's just enjoyable to listen to, and he does. He gives zero fs at all for what anyone in society thinks. He just has strong opinions based upon a lifetime built around basketball. So, without further ado, the legendary coach Max Good, Max um Man, it's been quite a journey for you in basketball. You're you grew up where like where Gardner, Maine is just outside of a gust of the state capital. So what was what was basketball like for you as a kid. Well, I was a decent high school player. I average sixteen seventeen a game, but that was in Maine, you know, and it was totally different. Although ironically there's a kid in in Maine this year this rank in the top six players in the country and he's just a freshman, Cooper Fly. Oh no, he's terrific. Um. So let look, I spent a lot of time in Maine, so I understand, like what it's like. And you and I were discussing that Portland likes to describe itself as North Boston, but we're talking, uh, sixty five years ago or so, what was basketball like? What was your basketball life like the rest of us? We could go down and I was back when kids play pickup ball? Right? Um? For you, like, what was it like? Was it you in a w rec center? Was it you with your dad? Like? Where was it that you're back? Because you clearly love this game. You've made a life out of this game. Where was that formed? Well, the Celtic I lived in a I actually grew up in Holton, Maine, which is about ten miles from the Canadian border, and the Celtics used to tour through there through a little small burghs in in in Maine and New England, and the Celtics came to town. And I've never seen any black athletes ever, and of course Bill Russell came and Sam Jones and Ksey Jones and those guys, and so I saw them play, and I absolutely fell in love with basketball the first time I saw them. And uh, I just you know, I said, this is somehow or another, I got to find a way to be associated with this the rest of my life. So you play in high school, and then how do you decide what you're gonna do in college? Well, I went to Transylvania for one year, and Transylvania is a very good academic school, and I managed to take every elective my first year and had a two point oh. I liked college. I hated school, and I surely wasn't gonna let college get in the way of my education. But I ended up. My brother went to Eastern Kentucky University on a golf scholarship, and I visited him, and so I went there and finished. So what what what was it like to to grow up in Maine and end up your in Eastern Kentucky. Now, one thing about mean and I think all of New England that people don't realize is there's plenty of its country. It's redneck, it's it's just it's a different accent, but there's it's actually it's probably a lot like Kentucky or I wrong? What was It's ironic? You said that because some political person said that there's no two states further apart that are more closely aligned than Kentucky and Maine. I thought it was very ironic. Now we're talking Maine north of Augusta. Augusta South is a little more, you know, a little more sophisticated. In other words, people from Augusta South voted for uh Biden. They don't vote for Trump. And if I'm letting my true feelings be known, so be it. Yeah. So people will ask me if so and so voted for Trump, and I'll say, oh, no, they graduated from elementary school, so they would have. And I don't know what your political feelings are, but I'm not afraid to let anybody know what mine are. I'm not either. That's that's an incredible line. Um ay one I made up. I'm not very original, but I made that one up myself. That was that was really good. I graduated from elementary school. So you, uh so you're east as you played Eastern Kentucky. Yes, No, I didn't play at Eastern Kentucky. I played at Trampsylvania. Who'd you play for? Uh, Lee Rose? We'll see C. M. Newton and Lee Rose Newton. Yeah, two pretty good people. Yeah, and I played baseball and we actually went fifteen and one. And uh I was probably a better Well I wasn't probably I was. I was small, but I was also slow. You know two things. That and that isn't original. I got that from somebody else. So so why don't you played Eastern It wasn't good enough? Okay, see, just a regular students, a regular student, and I became This is the reason I picked Eastern Kentucky. Now this tells you how much faith I put in education. I listened to the state tournament and Cawood Ludford did the Kentucky Games did the state tournament, and I listened to that. In Maine, I listened to on W H. A. S. And he was saying if he were to integrate at Kentucky, the player he would take would be Bobby Washington, who was a guard at Dunbar, and Joe Hamilton was on the team. And both of those guys are six ft in under and played in the NBA or played professional basketball. So I I was thinking about going to Western Kentucky, but I wanted to see Bobby Washington played basketball. That's why I picked them to go to school. That's a good valid reason, isn't it. First secret? Yeah, so you go there? Are you? Are you involved in the basketball program at all? You know? I used to sneak into practice and Guy Strong was an extreme He actually guy coach at Oklahoma State at one time, but he was a very very strict. And I go to practice, and uh, because I got close with Bobby Washington and tok Coleman and Garfield Smith who played for the Celtics, and uh Willie Woods, and I would I go up in the bleachers and I would hide and watch practice. He uh, he saw me up there one day and he said to the assistant Jackiss, and he said, who in the hell is that up there? He said, coach, he knows more about our team than we do. And he said, well, you have that son of a bitch come over and see me. So I came over in Simon. He told me, you know, I told him I'd love to do any and he said, so he wanted me keeping stats and practice and I had the ability. Now I can't remember my phone number today is obvious how I got on this podcast. But I could watch eight transitions and I could recall after eight transitions are the next stop and play. I could remember every turnover, every steel, every game, every assist, you know, every you know, all that stuff. I had a gift for doing that. Well, I certainly don't today. So you do that for three years, uh two or three? You get you get done with college? Well, I went to Madison coach down at Madison High School was just down the hill. We had there were a hundred and ten students there, and I eventually became the head coach at Madison High because if Eastern was playing, they weren't practicing. Consequently, I'd go down to the high school and what's in practice every day? When I said I love basketball, it was beyond love. You know, I'm speaking you fromistically When I say love. I had an unbelievable passion for just to you know, be around it. And they had they were had a hundred and ten students and they beat every When when I went there, we beat every team in Lexington. All of them had, you know, twenty five hundred more students. We had fifty two boys and fifty eight girls, but all of that fifty two boys we had the right seven or eight. You know. It was an inner city school. And and uh, the first seven years I coached, I never had a white player because there weren't any there. So what what what was that? What was that like? Though you're your guy who grew up, as you pointed out, you've never seen black athletes except when the Celtics came to town in Maine. Now you're at Eastern Kentucky and you're in Kentucky, or a white guy coaching a black athlete. What was what was that experience like for you? How did you? How did you? How did you? Oh? It came very easily. Really. As a person from main sometimes growing up in Maine, you feel a little self conscious or you don't have greatest confidence. You know, you're you're you're kind of treated like an outlier, so to speak. Well, I was determined to overcome that, you know, and I got along extremely well with those kids from the first day I was ever with him, without patronizing them. The thing that was amazing was how hard I got on them, how they responded and respected it. You know, I mean, I was I had an assistant to worked with me. That showed his wife had his wife listened to when night got after perdue and he said to her, what do you think of that? She said, oh, that's outlandish. Well, he said, coach goods about times that ten, you know, And I took it as a compliment. But it's amazing. To this day. I get calls from former players daily, and the ones I got on the hardest are the ones that I got, you know that I get the most uh respect or or connection with Why do you think? Why do you think we're in this era? And it's interesting. So I'm coaching youth kids and I have parents who pushed back, and I'm not. I don't crush them, you know, you just it's it's obviously different, but I do. I will get onto them far harder than most coaches will. And for the most part my I have parents are like, that's what they need. But you have a good portion of people that you know, they that's not how they believe their child should be coached. Right, these are middle school kids. Know they don't want them to be coached. They want them to be pampered. They want you to rub baby oil and baby powder in their asks every night. But I don't I don't understand why. I like, again, what you're saying is accurate. The coaches who get on you, teach you, grind you, those are the ones who resonate the most, so that now we're all adults, you would think we want that for our kid, you know, especially if as long as you're fair, right, that's that's really it's. It's the coaches that aren't fair. They just you're on a kid for no reason, or you're on a kid trying to make them quit. But if you're fair in terms of like, hey man, how many times have I told you to box? Like I've literally told you to box out fifty times. I'm tired to hear myself think you know, and or calling or telling kids when they're playing soft because they are planning soft. Um, I don't understand why. Why do you think we've gotten to that point? You're just your personal perspective having lived through these various generations. Well, I think every generation a man gets a little softer anyway, and I think there's some natural inclination to do that. And parents aren't really concerned about the team. They're concerned about their child, and they're not realistic. And it used to be doug where parents took took care of kids. I think we're in an age now, especially with the you know, with the the uh, the really talented ones, where they expect the kids to take care of the parents. They're looking for that golden horseshoe and they want somebody that's gonna, you know, hit it big. And of course, for everyone that hits it big, we know, the stats are a hundred that don't and uh. I think some parents resent the fact that they can get on their own child and their child doesn't respond very well, but the coach gets on them and they do respond to the coach, And I think the sinnatural resentment there. And I never, I never, I never fucked with parents. I would tell them that I'll talk to your I'll talk to you about your son's academic or social pro progress at any time, but basketball's off limits. You know, Hugh Durham, who I really admired when he was at Florida State, he went into Florida State. You know, they become they become all black almost overnight, and people on his own press role, we're pulling against him. And yet they reached heights that they never had before, and he would have he would have kind of a meeting with parents and fans before the season. He'd bring out a white board, well probably a black boarder a green board at that time, but a white board, and he'd say, all right, here's my players. Deploy them in a two to one defense, and give me their responsibilities. And then conversely, show me how you would beat that, how you would counter that. And of course I'd sit there and like in the seventh grade, when you were in class and you didn't know the answer, you're ducking behind the person in front of you because you didn't want to be called on. He'd make the very cogent point that you don't only know what the hell you're talking about. You know, you're you're not knowledgeable enough. I'll talk to you about these things, but I can't talk to you about basketball because we're not on the same wave length. Well that didn't endere to them anymore, but I think they would start keeping their distance, you know, I just parents mean, well, but you know, it's just just like Alonzo Ball's dad. Hell, the kid just now is learned to shoot with the ball off his right shoulder, not off his left shoulder, you know, and he had him all those years, and now he's preaching about his other son, who you know, he was averaging about eight points a game in the G League, thinking he said, I sent Charlotte a gym and and uh, you know he should be you know, he should be up with the varsities in the G League now. And I don't mean to you know, to mean them, because overall, I guess you could say he's done a reasonably good job with those kids, is they you know, the two of them have been highly productive. But everybody thinks, say, no basketball, nobody would walk in the doctors or a lawyer's office and profess to know what they're doing because they've never practiced doctor and a lawyer. And but they they have played, and you know, some of them played fifth fifth grade in the mineral, so they think that puts them at the top of the list. You know, it's funny. They wouldn't walk into a doctor's office. Never. Never, they would cower and run. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app. Search f s R to listen live. So you're you're coaching. What was next? When did you get out of Kentucky? Well, I went to I I end up being the head coach at Eastern Kentucky and I amically. I've had nineteen different players that I've associated with that have made the NBA, But the best player I ever had there was a kid at Eastern Kentucky. He was more talented than all of them, and he didn't play in the NBA because he was very laid back, unbelievably talented. Came down to Eastern Kentucky, Illinois and Cincinnati, and he chose us. The weekend he came to visit the girls state tournament was there, so we put him in the dorm with my manager, and his manager had gerbils and snakes in the room. The next day, I take him to breakfast at McDonald's. Then I leave at noon to go watch Kentucky Louisville in that Landmark game in Knoxville, Tennessee. And I said, Tony. The kid's name was Tony Parris. He averaged twenty one points a game as a freshman. You know, he had thirty four against Auburn, twenty nine against Memphis State. UH the second half against Louisville in this day and age, guess what he probably would do after his freshman year at Eastern Kentucky. But I said, I said, Tony, how can you turn us down? I put you in the Richmond Zoo, I feed you fucking McDonald's, and I'm saying, fuck you. I don't care enough about you. I'm going to watch Louisville and Kentucky play. He looked at me and he grant. He said, coach Eastern can I mean McDonald's is my favorite restaurant. I said, well, we're golden. I get a call Sunday night. He commits to US. Now. He visited Illinois and Cincinnati, and ironically we played Illinois. Uh in his sophomore year. We played in their tournament and they had that they had four black kids and they you know, welch and I mean they were really good, and they had one white kid that was a great defender, about a six four kid. Well Tony got thirty four against him. You know, he gave him thirty four and he couldn't guard him. In the phone book let alone note on the floor should have been an NBA player. But he I ran into John Lawyer, John lawyer was assistant at Acclina Hugginson. I saw him out at l m U and I passed him in front of my assistance. I said, John, how good, how talent throughs Tony Paris. He said, NBA superstar good. He was six one and had to have eight stitches taken in his head because he followed up a rebound once and hit his head on those loops that hold the nets and and and scratched, you know, put a cotton his head. I've never seen anybody more talented than he is. Ever, he did things that were Jordan's, Like his hand time was maybe even better than Jordan's. I know that sounds crazy. And by the way, I don't think it's even close with Jordan and Lebron, you know. I think Jordan's invested, separate played, his competitive nature separates him from all these people. Kobe was really you know it was it was the other night to Celtics, and I go off. I digress all the time. I can't help myself. But the the other night, Lebron's playing and they're getting beat badly, and uh, they showed him on the bench and he's sitting there grinning, and I said, can you ever. I sent a tweet up, can you ever imagine Michael Jordan getting beat by twenty and sitting on the bench grinning? Or better yet, can you ever see Michael Jordan's left j J Barea, who I had tremendous respect for holding eight points. Well, I have hit dump burrier and the ball, bray and the ball and see what's hit the ground first. You know, Jordan is a psychopath, but I mean that as a compliment. Yeah. I talked to Tom Conchowski about him. He said he came to their camp and he said, nicest kid in the world. Pull you threw the ball up and he said he was just, you know, just crazy competitive, that he'd never seen anything like him. I said, who's better him or Lebron? He said, oh, from the neck down, probably Lebron because he's bigger than all He's not nearly his fluid as Jordan's. I don't think he has his footwork. And people think I'm trapping on Lebron when I say, you know, he's a top five player. Hell, that's pretty good. Yeah, you know, Max Maxum nailed something right there that I've I've dealt with ever since I've covered basketball, which is saying somebody's a top five player in the history of the game is an incredible compliment. It may not be if you think you're the greatest ever, but remember we're putting you in the air of Bill Russell. And I mean Larry Bird and Magic Johnson somehow have disappeared from this debate. You know, I was, I was, I'm old enough to know it. But you're you are alive. That is the prime of your your basketball existence. Like they were basketball, Larry Bird and Michael Jordan's Larry Bird Mattic Johnson were they were basketball. That's it. It was every year waiting for those two to play in the finals. And they were just better than everybody else. And while yeah, I mean, that's that's that's that's that's my feeling about. And that was also the golden era of the NBA. Oh Jordan's said, people didn't have a clue how good Larry Bird was, said, try garden his ass. And I made this up, and somebody called because I said Larry Bird was probably a step slow and two steps ahead, you know, because because of his savvy and I saw him play in the high school Indiana, Kentucky All Star Game. He played a minute in twenty nine seconds. Quit didn't play the second game. You know, he went to he didn't just go to Indiana State and he went to Rohose Hallman for a while. But he you know, he perfected his craft playing against prisoners of the state prison in uh French slick. He became tougher. You know, Larry Bird is a bitch, and I mean he's he's really good. And uh Lebron anointed himself as the best player a few years ago. And Jordan's you know, whether he was in sincere and he said that's disrespectful to Wilton and and and Rustle them and those guys. And he said, I would never say that. Well, I'll say it for me. You watch films of Jordan's footwork and his ability to hang and and you know his development as a mid range post player, and you know he toyed with people. He toyed with people. I mean, to me, he's not even it's not even close. He's the best player that ever played. That's me. Everybody's welcome to their opinion. And mind's probably wrong, but I know, damn well it's right. Why Why did it ended, Kentucky? Why did it end? You know, listen to this. We had a president and he's dead now, and I'm not terribly sad about that. But he came in and he wanted he wanted me to cheat, and Doug, I'm not going to try to be you know what's the word? Uh? I mean holier now and actually yeah, holier. And I've never cheated anywhere I've been. Don't believe in it. I'm not gonna start at the forty yard line and run a guy in the end zone and be, you know, go on a sixty yard gonna beat him and say I beat somebody. You haven't beat anybody, You've oouth cheated them. You know, I wouldn't. There's no way I could coach the kids I did and the way I did and cheat. They'd be holding that over my head. I mean not, I wouldn't have lasted a day. Let me tell you what now, my wife is right here. I'll tell you what ended my career coaching a you here, My grandson was in the eighth grade at the time. He threw the ball away in the game. I called time out. I said, listen here, you little motherfucker, you throw the ball away again, I'm gonna break your fucking jaw. Now he was an eighth grader. Now you know now that that you know that there's no way that's acceptable, no way. And on the way home, my wife let me, not so kindly, said, my coaching career was over. You know, I'm crew coaching, and uh, you know that kid calls me three times a week, you know, because he's taught. He wants to go to West Point and they'll be screwing up if they don't take him. I'm not talking as a basketball player, as a human being and as a tough kid. And I mean he goes on political marches, he did when he was in the eighth grade. But just you know, my wife's waving at me because I digress and get off on these tangents. How long did this show? Does it go to too this afternoon? Get whatever whatever you want? We can we this is I want to. I want to. I want to get through mean and get to Vegas and get to Loyal Merymount and get to thoughts. Now, so you're you're allowed to digress. That's what this is. It's just kind of want I want. I coached. I went to m C I from Eastern. Well, let me back up at Eastern Kentucky. We're the only team in the league that made the final four four straight years in our league to go to the conference tournament. And yet we won nineteen one year and eighteen. That's the most did won in back to back seasons in forty years. And we were playing a pretty steady diet of West Virginia's and Cincinnati's in Memphis States and Tennessee. And I believe that I thought we could recruit a little better player if we played against those kinds of teams. Well, and we only had two non guarants, I mean to guarantee games. Now a lot of teams will play four. Well, the big difference between two and four. You know, you can take out an eighteen win season and turn that into two with those games. But anyway, the president wanted me to cheat, and the a D told me that. I said, I'm not doing it. I said, there's no way I'm doing that. I said, you need to get somebody else in Well, they proceeded to get somebody else. So I go to m c I. And we had way better talent at m c I than he did at Eastern Kentucky. So so this is N nine he come back home Baigne. Now you hadn't been there in twenty years, right, Okay, how did how did m c I become the place? Was? Was m c I a basketball factory before you got there? A little bit? But they didn't have a lot of discipline. And I don't like to despare. And again that's what people told me, and I don't like to rely on what people tell me. They said the coach, would you know, he'd get a lead and then he'd start sucking on a lollipop or something. Literally, it was his the red oar back cigar, you know, and we'd be one year we had Damar Johnson and Karn Butler. Now those are two pretty good players for a prep school team. Tom Consolski said, the two prep school teams the last two years I was there. Another, Hey, my last year, we had Eric Barkley, Kevin Braswell, Bobby Smith, three point guards. One went to Villanova, one went to Georgetown, went one one to St. John's, all three starters in the Big East as freshman. That's how much talent we had. And how did you get How did you get kids to come to prep school and play for you and get motherfucked in made you know what? He well, skip to my Lula was supposed to come and I told him, you're not coming to main stand on the street corner Swington Do. I scared the ship out of lamar odom. Uh. He was supposed to come, he didn't show up. I called him. I'm at a Clippers game years later and he saw me and came over. He said, the worst mistake I ever made was not coming to m C. I and uh because people had told him that, you know, he would never he would never last there. Trevor Diggs, who I had a U N l V, was supposed to come and he wouldn't come. And Trevor told me said he had a stuttering problem, which endeared him too many people because he would always show up to prost postgame interviews. And he said he'd say he came in he could cook. And I'm not making fun of him. I love Travis, he said, Coach. They told me they wanted me to come to MC. Said I can't walk there and play for that crazy motherfucker. He said. He said, I guess I got no choice now. I said, no, you damn sure don't. But if you don't start playing better defense, you won't be playing for me either. Well, his last game in college, he had forty nine points against Wyoming, who won the league. Now, that year we couldn't go to the you know from U N l V. When I took over and Billy Bano got Railroad, and I think to this day, I don't think he should have you know, gotten let go. But we we beat Wyoming twice that year. It's the only two losses they had in the conference. We beat him at third place, we beat him at our place. And they had two pros on their team, you know, and and uh. The year before I got there, they had Tyrone Nesby, Keon Clark and Shawn Marion won seventeen games. And next year we won and didn't have you know what, we had Casper's Kambala. Yeah, well play both. I played both those teams, both in Vegas. By the way, Hey, you let me tell you how I You were my scout the second year. I said, we're gonna guard the ship out of Doug golt Leap until he passes it. Then we're gonna drop off because he'll never touch the ball again a second time in the possession. Was I accurate? Yeah? And I know the year before you had a bookos assist. Let me tell you something. I saw you play at Laguna Beach on that half court, and I said, I don't know that I've ever seen a bigger prick play basketball, and like got it. You were cocky and talking ship and they couldn't do anything with you, and you weren't doing it scoring. You were doing it with defense, toughness and passing. I was fascinated watching you play. I said, goddamn, that guy's an asshole, but in a good way. Patrick Beverley is a prick. Marcus Smart asshole and they got on him because he jumped on Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown. Well, he had to. Nobody else had nuts enough to say anything to him. You know, they tiptoe throw the tulips slightly. You know, they look like a Shetland ponies at a stud firm, and Marcus Smart jumped their ass and justifiably so. People in Boston don't like Marcus Smart that much? Are they nuts? Cutting loose? And see how many teams in the NBA will take him? Now? They might say, you know you're not gonna shoot these crazy ass threes that he has on time ship Marcus Smart will win games for you, and uh, I had a pro scout telling me that Marcus Smart he signed. One night in the game, Jalen Brown and Mark Eas Morris and him got in an argument and Smart was in the game. He got off the bench and threatened to whipball three. Of them's asked right there, he said, I'll whoopball three. You fucker's right here in front of God and everybody. They said, I said, what happened? He said, they got correct. You know, I love Marcus Smart and you know we went to Oklahoma State. But he oh, those are the type of guy I mean we talked about I talked about all the time with people. It's like, you know, t J. McConnell and and and and Delhi and all these guys that are you know, undersized, Like, yeah, I'm making the NBA unless you're a bad motherfucker, unless you think you have to be the absolute toughest dude, you know, in two states if you want to make it, and then I make it in the NBA making college, Like you know, it's funny you mentioned J. J. McCollum Baron davis is on one night and they asked him about J. J. McCollum. They showed t J mc p J. Yeah, yeah, there's a there's a J. J. And here in May who coaches in Hell. I can't separate the two of them. Ones in Indiana. Is McConnell still in Indiana or is he? Yeah? Yeah, he just got hurt. He's after the year. Yet well, you know he he picks up full court, the only one he takes a charge in back court. You know, he cuts off penetration forces, the past forces of turnover, and Baron Davis says, I'm not impressed with that. Anybody can do that well, last to damn point, anybody can, but anybody won't well in in all honesty and look, Baron Davis was probably the most talented point guard out of California in the last twenty five years. But the reason he's not in the Hall of Fame, it's right there. You know, that's it. Hey, I tweeted about that. I said, yeah, a lot of people more can. I don't think anybody can do that. It's not that easy to take a charge garden a guy full court. You know, you've got to make them change direction and uh, and there's you've got to have good anticipatory skills, good footwork, and toughness. When people say all it takes is you just gotta hustle to play defense, that sells defense so short. That's not true, you know, And and but I said, yeah, that's exactly the point. T J mcconnor is it j J again? Is it t J or JJ, TJ t J McDonald JJ bare? But they might and they're they're different than the JJ's score, But it's the same in that they're they're they're unbelievably tough and smart and their will and their will is is this greater than other people? That's it. That's that's the point. People will pick an all star team and said, well, I want Wilt Chamberlain, and I want Jordan's and I want you know, and they'll pick five all stars. I say, who in the hell is gonna give up shots, who's gonna run the team, Who's gonna get their ass back on defense? Jayson Tatum is old talented, but about a third of the time he every time he gets touched or breathed on, he throws his arms up, runs at the referee, beers off, and doesn't get back on defense, and they lay it in on the heather and und Well, that's my thing with with Jason Tatum is you know he wants to be Kobe Bryant. Does he understand that Kobe Bryant was a hardcore defender and the type of tough competitor that that that the world has rarely seen. Like just because you can get the ball and go one on one and score and some of your moves look like Kobe's moves, that ain't it. That's that's a that's his weakness. You know, he thinks he can take You know, last night they got beat in the game. They should have won. Hell of Clippers don't have George or don't have Kwai Leonard. And I love Kuai Leonard when he's healthy. I used to argue, I thought he was a good a player if there wasn't an NBA, And well he's a great two way player. I said, that's why some he said Tom Brady is the greatest football player ever. Really does he play a defense in baseball and in in basketball you gotta play defense. Tom Brady might be the greatest quarterback, although I don't think he's as talented as is Rogers. But you can't take away how much he's won. But to say he's better than Lawrence Taylor, please, you know, I mean, he said, and people get upset. Well, it's not good enough. He's named the greatest quarterback. He's got to be the greatest player ever. Well did his pay grade go up another ten million because we can say that about him? I don't know. I get I get upset very easily. Sometimes I'll sign off. I said, as time for this grouch, you old bitch to go to bed yet. Okay, so how did Billy get you to leave? Being central? She kind of had your own fief to him, right, Yeah. The last two years there, Tom Concholsky said, we have the best prep school team ever ever. He said, because we had talent, plus we played harder than everybody else. I can't speak to that. We had great talent. I'll let somebody else judge how hard we played. I know this. Those fuckers played harder. They didn't pledge. But anyway, he I Billy talked, And I've been there ten years at m c I. The first year I was there, Leonard Hamilton's brought me to Florida State. Or wasn't Miami Miami? I guess it was yeah, And I got off the plane. It was ninety degrees and at Humidit d at ten o'clock at night. I said, there's no way I can live with the snow. We got three inches of snow on the ground here in Maine from yesterday. But I can live with that morning. I can extreme heat and humidity. But anyway, I uh, I've been there ten years and we hadn't had a wreck, and we're driving the bands, and uh, we we lose at St. Thomas Morland. I'm I'm doing a pretty good job of trying to convince you I'm not quite all there. Well, we play at St. Thomas More and we make one of our last five free throws and they beat us by one. We drove and I didn't feed them if we got beat at m C. I they didn't need after the game, I didn't give a damn. If we were New Orleans, we'd drive back from there, and we weren't ever in New Orleans. I'd rolled down the windows and turn the air conditioning off, so I I think the same cold and I didn't need either, you know. And I'll tell you what they learned to win games that they wouldn't have by not feeding them after a loss, which you can't get away with that, and probably shouldn't, but no, I guess I got to remove them. Probably you absolutely shouldn't all substitute absolutely from for probably, But but I know this, those kids tell me all the time. Mike Boyd went to West Virginis a coach. We won at least five games we wouldn't have if we if we'd gotten need after a loss, you know, And that's I didn't need. So so so, how did Billy convince you to go to Vegas? Well, I've been there ten years and we hadn't had a wreck in the bands, and I'm driving the vans, and you gotta understand I probably drove them sixty two and if we got beat, which we you know, our records two d and ninety and twenty five, and we played the vast majority of our games on the road, and we didn't have the same officials. You know, you go to St. Thomas More, you'd get to St. Thomas More officials. They didn't reciprocate. They wouldn't play us at our place. And I love Jerry Quinn. I think he should be in the Hall of Fame. Great coach, great person, couldn't standing. Uh. We coached together in Indiana, and I'm gonna I'm gonna get back on what you said. He's rooming with me, and he comes in. He's got wide wale chord rays on birken stops and some of those big gray socks with red tops. Takes his pants off, and he hasn't got any drawers on. I said, my man. Yeah. I immediately started really liking him. I love him today, and we're very close, you know. I through Tom Kinshawski, who's a saint. Tom Kinshawski said, you know, I would talk to him for a half hour, and when I got through with him, I felt more whole and more decent. And just by talking just through osmoses of talking to him, Well, I got a good friend in Kentucky and coach. He said, Well, if he makes you feel more old, you need to call him every half hour. He said, you could use that. But Billy, you know, we I was afraid we were going to have a wreck. Did the odds were against us, you know, because I would drive ninety miles an hour back home. I'd be so mad, you know, and they wouldn't talk. Hey, we lost it. We played down at Fletcher Eric's tournament. We got beat at the butt. We had a kid hit a shot to put us up for and and he came in and the referees got together and they came running, and I said, oh, this isn't gonna be He said, coach, we got even with a fowl before hit the basket. They looked up at the scoreboard. Well, hell so now all of a sudden we're up to and he's shooting a free throw and he misses. And they had a kid Dean that went to I want to say North Carolina State, Virginia. He was harolding. Yeah, he comes down, he charges, and then to keep him stepping on our player steps over his knee. It's a three. I went down. I put my fist through a wooden door that was about three inch or thick. Broke my hand. I broke my hand six times in ten years at m c I, and that was the only one we lost. I broke it five times in Winds in ten years. But I just I thought, well, you know, I need to get out of here before we have a wreck. And I cause it by my insane behavior. You know, I'm certified, and I know it. You know I don't have any problem with it. I don't know that I'd let me coach one of my own kids, So you know I can come to grips with that. So so uh, Billy said, so Billy convinced you hate You haven't had a wreck yet. Get out. You didn't say it, he said, you know you need to get out of there. Well, why I loved him? Ce I I I mean I made the same amount of money the first year as I did and ten years later and they did a seven page story on us in Sports Illustrated was most flattering, talking about how disciplined, how tough, how you know study halls they weren't allowed to act up or act to fool or I'd walk around campus and step in the rooms and I just you know, I had an Airdale Terrier and Koran said, damn that door, don't need step in need say oh, Jick, and I'd I'd say, hey, if he gives you any trouble, you let me know. I got the answer for that. It's a four o'clock a m practice. And uh, and you know I felt like Boss Cartwright and what does Bonanza or whatever the show he was on. I was ahead of my thief him. But I made the same amount of money ten years later. I never got a race, and I could care less about money. When I took over at l m U and and and you will, they called me in they said, what do you want to do about Sarah. I said, hell, you can cut me ten thousand dollars. I didn't come here to be the head coach. Of course, my wife wasn't too happy about that, you know, because I threw a lot of money away. But but I didn't care about that. But I went with Billy, and of course he puts me in charge of fast break, offense, defense and discipline. Discipline. I said, now, Billy, I'm all, I'm all too well to you know. I'll be glad to do that, but you know that really should come from you. And Billy was the nicest guy. And he said, I know how I was when I was their age, and I just have a hard time justifying being this hard on him, knowing how I was at their age. And uh, but I I love Billy Banham and he was a far better coach. And people realize, but whoever heard of given assistant coach from a prep school? The discipline he listened to this story. Casper Scambala, who I think you remember? He looked like the damn Russian and Rocky he said, Coutch. I heard, you're pretty tough, I said, Cass. I'm a fat, old white man, old white man. He said, I'm not tough at all. I hear if you're tough, and if you come, we will sooner or later we will fight, I said, cast and then if that happens, you'll whip my ass. But understand this, Sooner or later you're gonna fall asleep. And when you do, I'm gonna do. You have an ice pick and one fucking ear, and the point's going to come out the other and will be eaten with a drool cup and in a wheelchair the rest of your life. Well, they put that in ESPN, the magazine. He told Mark Dickles. He said, Mark, this man crazy. He's crazy, he said, I think he means that. Well, we won one one time. We we wanted uh Colorado State. No, we lost at Colorado State, and then we went up and beat Wyoming. And when we got back, Billy said, anybody you know, we'd gather up before we got our study. Anybody got something to say? I said, yeah, I got something to say, and I threw my coat. Now, I said, I'd like to fight every one of you cocksuckers. I said, you bitch made punk ass And and uh there was Dave Callis was a cop there, and some lady said she called special security. She said there's some middle aged man. Well, god, I want to kiss her for saying middle age is threatening to fight the U n l V team. He said, no, that's coach good and he's justified. And I said, Cass, I want to start with you. You're the one I want first. Right now, we'll go through the whole team. Well, hell, I walked home from the airport to Thomas and Mack. I had two bags. I'm walking down over the hill with bowlers and the bus transport and the players is they drive by and they're staring straight ahead. Well I get there. Trevor Diggs came in and dick on. They said, coach, I said, Fellas, I shouldn't have said that. I was on the line. No, you weren't on the line. If you care that much, I guess we should start. And we won seven straight games and went to the n C Double A after that. Now I am not trying to make a connection between the two. Maybe if I'd have been a little more you know, accepting earlier than that, we might have been on fifteen wins in a row. But Billy came down and thanked me. He said, no, coach, you should have done that. You should have done that. He said, although it's a good thing, we don't have tape on it. You get arrested, We get arrested. So so here's my here's my cast for Gamebot. By the way, Mark Dickle, I had last weekend. I took my team to Vegas, but I had a game Saturday, Colorado State against they play St. Mary's. So I had actually fly to Denver, drive to flour Collins, then flew back. So I I was gonna get coaching kids in the morning and then fly and our we we got our games with the afternoon. So Mark Dickle actually coached for me, and and you want, some of the nicest guy ever, and my kids loved him anyway. So but but I told Dickle this story that my the year before you got there. We're playing Vegas. And as you point out, Kevin Simmons was super talented. Uh, Brian Keith was course coach in the NBA Sean coach Brian so um Uh. And so the game, it's it's like five minutes ago when we're up double double figures, it's a wrap and we're at the free throw line and Casper was like, well do you getting into tonight? And I was like what, Like I'd never never had a conversation with opponent ever over like what we're doing after the game. And I was December and we had had a miserable game at Craighton where we all you know, I wanted to transfer. I didn't start the first half or the second half, and I had fifteen assists and one turnover and coach still brought me out the bench because I was in the doghouse. And anyway, so he's like, what do you what do you guys getting into tonight? Were like, what are you talking about? Like we go out, Okay, We're going to the Circle bar at the hard Rock, right that's the only place we knew. So we met about how we went out and we went and I and I've never seen a college basketball player drink that much. And but he was he was unbelievable, like he was he wanted he wanted to kill everybody when he played, and then he'd hang out with you after the game. And he did the same thing the next year we beat you. It was like we go out tonight. They were like, this guy is unbelievable. I'll tell you I got. I wasn't if I got. If I got smoked on national TV. I'm going out with anybody, hanging out with them, pretend like we'd like each other. No fucking way, No, he said, Coach, we played by the rules here, I said. Cast The fact you're saying that tells me we don't get the funk out of here. I don't want to hear all that bulleishit. You know. I didn't look the other way, but I just didn't get involved in that any way, shape or form. I I can't stand that. If you got it, I just don't like it. And I'll tell you what. I got so much respect for Coach Sutton. I said, Andrew Williams played for me. M C I who up the state and I called coach Sutton because the judge was the assistant. And yeah, yes, the judgment, for people who don't know is Paul Graham. He of course wanted to be the head coach at Washington State. And he was a high school coach in Dallas. I think he retired this year. Last year, pauls a jim. Anyway, go ahead and see you're talking to Paul. You're talking to coach. He talks me into taking Andrey Williams. And the guy that helped him was the guy that was helping the kids at Kansas. But anyway, so Andrey comes, and Andrew's blocking every damn shocked. And I had Wesley Wilson on the team, a seven foot kid that went to Georgetown, had a much bigger name. But Andrey was much better player. I mean, he fit in way better with our players. And uh. I called Paul Graham. I said, Paul, you under rated this fucker. I said, you need to close your door. I said, this motherfucker blocks everything that wiggles. He plays harder than shipped. I can't shoot, but knows it and doesn't try to. I said, he will be a bitch for you. Just couldn't he couldn't see, and he couldn't catch exactly. And you know what, he had an s a t of liket and a g p A of about one point nine. Yeah, very right, too bright, but he you know, he uh he didn't do well in school, and he didn't care about it really. He just you know, he wants he had he had, and he had a really really terrible upbringing, tough up, but but he was he was the only here's here's something no one's ever heard before. Okay, So we called him Andre Sutton. And the reason we called him Andrea Sutton was that kid was a freshman. We had seven seniors, and he could get away with ship. None of us get You don't understand, right, So it was so uh my senior year. I'm sure you remember Jimmy Williams us another gem, right. So Paul Leaves gets the head coaching job at Washington State and Andre comes in anyway, and Jimmy Williams, the son of John Williams, is our assistant coach and Jimmy's great Now Jimmy is not. Paul was more negative and would would He was the only guy, you know, he the assistants with dog custy coach never cursed, and and Jimmy was getting onto Andre, and Andre turned him clear his day and said, Jimmy sucked my dick, motherfucker. And he's like, suck my dick, and we're like what like, like, look, I've done a lot of ships in my life. I have never ever thought of telling a coach to suck my dick ever like that, Like there's there's lots of gray areas. Ship that is way over the like we all and you know, it's like one of those. All of a sudden, you could hear a pin drop in Gallagher, Riva. We're like, what is coach can do? And and coaches made him go run the stairs and we're like then he came back into practice and we're like we were just like what the what do we just see? How did that? How did that happen? How did he He just told a coach the second stack and all he had to do is run the steps, Like, dude, I want to do that. If I did that, I would be I would I would just pack your ship, go to California. We'll let you know if we need write that. And that was It was unbelievable, So Dre, and I don't know it is because of how tough his upbringing was or how hard because we were hard on him too, because that fucker couldn't catch, but he could really play, and and uh that was That was Andre Williams, and he again he was like he was like coaches Coach's other son. You know. He had Sean, Steve Scott and Andre. That's how we looked at him. Oh so that's that's Andy fucked up. And he funked up the Oklahoma game. Co We had a nine point lead last gaming old Galaghariba and Coach puts him in for me because he thought they'd start fouling me because I couldn't shoot free throws like Andre can shoot free It was Andre. He dropped the ball like three times a row, you know, and he just sucked up. But man, he could block some shots and he could catch when when he caught it, he could dunk on. He was he'd be great in the dunker and if he worked on it. Once he got once he got his eyes, I didn't got some new glasses because he had those when he came in he had those Kareem goggles and then he and then he'd get mad at him and take him off and he couldn't see anything. He was like Mr McGoo um. But once he got the eyesight thing, he was he was a hell of a player. He was really really. He comes to practice one morning of course. Now we had phones, two phones in the hallway. This is before cell phones. And if they rang after ten thirty, I told him those phones w off book. I lived in the dorm. I lived in the damned dorm with him, and other people were bitching about having to live in a dorm there. I said, hell, I'm fifty five and I'm thriving on it. There's no way you could have coached those kids. I had at him, say unless you were with him twenty four hours, so the phone would ring after ten thirty, I'll just get in the hallway and I'd say five thirty, fellas, and we'd have a five thirty am practice. So he comes down to practice one day and he's got blue jeans. He said his stuff was wet, his practice gear was wet. I said, motherfucker, we're playing tomorrow, and you're not playing unless you practice. He had boat or dop shoes on. He took his blue jeans. I pulled him up and pinned them and proceeded to block about six shots in a row. But Andrea would come in my room. See I'd cuss him in practice, but I'd cuss him in games. But then at night he'd come in my room because he have be in bed at ten thirty. He'd come in there in about eleven. I'd say, now, Andre, you get your long goofy asked to funk up and get out of here. He ain't standing in here. He was just trying to stay up. See he was find a way to beat h I loved him. You know, he was like a hound dog. You didn't know that scratching behind his ear or kick him in his asks, but you know he was. He started one time to say something back to me because I went on a dialogue or a monologue. It wasn't a dialogue. For about a minute and a half he got ready to say something back. Charm Butler reached around him and cupped his hand over his mouth and and you know, so he wouldn't say anything. And uh see, Karen had great leadership. And his story is incredible. You know, he was the rest of fifteen times by the time he's fifteen years old. Well, he wasn't on him, but he sold him. He got caught with a magnum of three fifty seven and you know, a bunch of cocaine and twenty thousand dollars in his pocket. There was a cop there in in Racine that really liked him because he was amazingly honest and opened. He and I when he called he called me three times and never called collect and that was very unusual. Now I snuck him into him c I if they had known this from through past, they wouldn't have let him in. And I told I told the admissions person, I said, I'll take the heat for this. Well, I knew they weren't getting rid of me. We'd won two hundred and nine games and lost what was what was karn? Like? How did you? How did how did he straighten it out? Because now he's you know, coaching, he's one of the most respected for players in the NBA. Like you say, you know touch Jews and you never have a problem, not one problem with him. Now listen. I picked him up at the airport. I said to you, butler, and he said yeah. I said, how many bags you've got, boy? He said four. I said, good, that'll take you two trips And I went back out on the van. Well, he comes out, he takes two trips. I didn't offer to help him. He starts to get in the front seat and I got a Narrowdale Terrier named Gentry. I named him after Steve Gentry, who was an unbelievable defender. Xavier He who's the kid that played at Indiana the left hand kid six seven Brian Evans. No, no, he he was a black kid. He was. He played He played for my dad from from Miami. I think he Charlie Miller. Charlie Miller. No, no, Charlie Miller went to uh he was from Miami. But I think he played at Kentucky. No, Charlie Miller was Maysville, Kentucky. They did have a kid, Charlie Miller from Masville. That's why Tom loved to call me Tom Contarls. She would call me. We talked for two hours because I was the only guy that he could talk to about the Ricketts boys and and say Hugo Green at New Game. You know, because I was such a nerd, and you know, I can't remember my own name. I had a bit of a time getting in this thing today. In fact, I couldn't know. If my wife hadn't been here, I wouldn't be enough. And probably you're thinking, well, I wish she hadn't got you in, But no, this is this is, this is amazing. Hey, we're going Calbercini, Calbercini, Calbert Chaney, Steve. That's where Gentry held him to three for nineteen and Bobby ninth told him he's the best defender he ever he ever had seen. He was the coach of Santa Herb Sundeck goes to Miami and he calls me, said, if you've got any more Steve Gentry's, I want all of them. He said, he took three charges in the backcourt Zigzagon. You know people, he was so good and tough defensively. But anyway, so Karen comes and he gets in the back seat and we're driving. He sees, uh, there's a Wendy's and he says it was some McDonald's. I got into a nice event last year and he came all the way from California to present me. He told his story and Uh, in case anybody thinks it's apocryphal or if it isn't the truth, he says, uh, I said to you hungry boy. And everybody's dropping their head because you know I called black kids boy all the time. It's a b o I boy. You know, hell, not one of them has ever said a thing about it. And the more I cust him out, the more they respect and like it. But anyway, I said, I'm not talking to you, motherfucker. I'm talking to my dog. And I didn't feed it. I didn't feed him. We get them, see I, and we're driving down. He said, doesn't look like this must to do here. We flew into bangor me. All he can see is a silhouette of the pine trees in the dark. It doesn't seem like there's much to do. I pulled that van over. I said, motherfucker, you want to go back to a scene where you had everything in the world to do and got absolutely nothing done. No no, I said, Well, shut the funk up. We get there and we call a practice for eleven thirty at night. I get him out of the dorm. I ran the dorm and he said, why we practicing to night? I said, because if I don't like the way you play, your ass is going right back to a scene tomorrow morning. I'll have you on the first flight the first thing smoking out of here tomorrow morning. Well, needless to say, he he was pretty good. He was really good, but very much a team player, very much a team No, you don't you listen, you don't have to sell me on the players. It's really amazing. Like he's he's a remarkable story and a remarkable guy who does not fit any bill for what you would think considering what his background was before that moment. He's very decent. You know, I think in his heart he's he's thinking about running for governor someday. At Wisconsin, he told me Boogie he was with Boogie Cousins and Sacramento. He was kind of brought into, you know, to kind of mentor him. He called me, he said, coach, he's too much for me. He needed you because see I threatened to fight him. They're not gonna fight me. Goddamn. If you're threatened to fight the whole team, they're not going to do it. All over a couple of times, I think they kind of thought about it, but no, he said Boogie Cousins, he said he needed you badly. But anyway, I go to U n L. Be with Billy, and then I've been all over hell since then. I've never applied for any job I've ever gotten. Every job I've gotten, they've reached out to me. Now I end up in Pratt Junior College and Pratt, Kansas and uh Brad Miller on a podcast a couple of weeks ago. He said, oh, no, coach Goods coaching at some n ai A division to junior college and who nailed. He just likes to coach. He doesn't care about money, and he just like he said, what he likes to do is get somewhere where he can cuss people out. And they said, well on the podcast, he said, oh, on, on, on on, you couldn't have him on the poast, he said. He calls me a couple of weeks ago at three thirty in the morning and I heard him say I picked up the phone. He said, I told you to answer. I told you this crazy sombit and answer. I said, what the fund do you want? He said, coach, I want you to know I didn't like you very much. When I said m C. I I said, well, good, because I didn't like your ass at all. And then he said, but I did want to tell you this. I don't think I would have played at Perdue, and I know I wouldn't have played in the NBA if I hadn't spent that year at m C. I said, good, if you get a sportswriter there wherever you are good. Call let motherfucker and tell him I'm going back to midnight on the phone up. And I don't need to sleep at night. I don't even sleep at night. I'm I got serious issues if you haven't figured that out already. But I love Brad Miller. God damn. He looks like Chris Stapleton. Now he's got a hair half the way down his back, and he got he during the All Star break. He comes to a game at UNLB and I had him talked to our team alfter the game and he starts, does he get mad to spit all over you because he broke his hand yet and sling blood all over you? I said, Brad, Brad, Brad, No, I want you to come in here and talk about the virtue of hard work and this funk hard work. He said. They tried to get me to come in this summer and work. I went in there one day and made twenty six out of thirty three. He said, get those non shooting guards ass in here and teach them out of Jude. I don't need this yet. Oh. He was a stubborn. Stubborn, but you talk about a guy that had basketball like you. He was a six one guard and Indiana grew to be six nine between his sophomore and junior year. But oh, I love Brad Miller. Now he was a path that tougher, tougher now to thank you, thank you? Yeah, him and him and him and Brian Cardinal, those those two guys. I mean, hey, I had Chad Austin and Chad Austin said they'd play Michigan and who is the tractor truck trailer would come out there and he'd start talking smack. They'd be on the produced side of mid court, stretching, you know, just to get in their way. Cardinal said, hey, fat boy, get your ass to funk across that line. And he said, I'm gonna kill you tonight. He said, you big, stupid sucker. He said, I'll take three charges on you before halftime. You won't get shipped done and shure up he did, but it would happen. He's taught more shipped to these, you know, multitalented players. But taking charges and being tough, those are skills. Coachability is a skill. There's nothing worse than a talented player without toughness to meet there useless, useless. I don't think you can win with them. I don't think you can win win with them, and you just get frustrated trying and thinking, well, sooner or later they're going to figure this out. Sometimes they do, but most of the time they don't because everybody's kissed their ass from their inception period. The first time they made it right and looked down, lay up everybody's you know, sucking their dead and tell them how wonderful they are. Correct. But it couldn't have said any better. Um, I want to do this. I want to do this again. I want to end this is part one. Can I call you? We do it again one morning next week. Oh that's fine. If you're hey, if you're people that follow you, don't call in say, don't have that stupid ignorant hill billy back on here. I wear my ship with it with honor. I know the type of these are all our type of people that are driving around. I can't say how many assistant coaches I have that they're out recruiting and they listen to Pod and they just this is what they want. Stories, they want basketball guys. I was on Zoom once with Arnold he will you was at St. Joe's and they have like twenty coaches on there. I'll tell you I'm really close with this. Uh. You know Mike Procopio. You worked with Dallas, he was a worker. I know him, I don't. I don't know him. I know you ought to get him on. You talked about crazy. I get down to watch Dallas play one night, and you're gonna have to cut me off because I'll keep talking even when you disappear. I get down there and dirt and which he comes over. He said, hey, Pro they called him Pro for Procope. Should I bet I can hit him threes in a row from this corner. He said, I don't give a fuck. Few makeup thousand in a row. You can't run up and down the floor three times without your knees buckling and you break in your leg. He said, they got a time you with a fucking egg timer. Well, Lyn Brea comes over, he said, Pro, I bet you Swiss five in a row. He said, hey, Midget, the fucking midget legs three doors down. That's how. That's how Sweets talked to him, And oh god, damn, I love him. He's crazy. Almost everybody I associated with this crazy, Well, then I would like to associate with you. That's that's that's that's what people had day story real quick. So, uh, last so I'm coaching last year and I get my code vaccine and we're playing a team I had. They were seventh graders at the time, and there's one team that we just couldn't fucking beat. Our kids just got so mental against them. And we're leading the whole game and then you know, we take help bat shots. It's like six and like bang bang to no calls when on our and and the other end is like touch fouls and uh it gets to ten and then we turn it over and gets the third team and I just lose my ship on this official because you know, it's like AU tournament, the guys not making a past half court and it's literally two different games. You know, that's the frustrat Like at one end, it's tightly officiated. You know, when when we're on defense and we're playing man, they're playing the zone while the fun you're to teach and thirteen year olds play zone, I'm not sure they're playing zone and it shouldn't be should That's terrible of course. So so anyway, so I turned, I turned, and I just motherfucked are you fucking kidding me. You're gonna call that fucking value. Didn't make it past fucking half sucking court? Am I asking that much for a game? You should get your fucking ass pass half court and at least take it. Thank you for these kids, right, So what part of it is? I had that vaccine the night before the day before, and I couldn't sleep, had a steering headache, and I just lost my ship. And I motherfucked this guy up and down and he calls two technical fouls whatever, and I refused to you know, you get a technical ful, you're supposed to sit out, and I'm gonna fucking sitting down, right, So we get down with the game and I go up to the guy and I go, look, man, I apologize. I just lost my ship. You know, we we haven't beaten this team. We should have beaten him. I didn't think they were too particularly good calls. But it's like we're all the same, right, We like in the moment, we're crazy as fuck, and we we have a point that we're trying to make, and it's the right point, just with you gotta have that crazy dream. And I think some of that crazy genie is really good in in sports one gyms are allowed to You gotta break through to the kids. The kids you say, pretty please, pretty please, they just don't do it. They just don't. No one's ever done that where you go, hey please, pretty please? Right? So, um so, I I completely understand the idea of being seen as crazy. You're not crazy, but you that crazy gene that or that switch that you'll flip, that'll be crazy. Everyone saw Billy Han Billy Han alday says every coach and after a certain amount of dribbles, and it varies from coach to coach, they totally lose their mind. He said, I just want you to know, for you, it was long to fuck ago. I said, you're a good one to talk and see. I never got on officials. Now this is gonna be my last story. I'm gonna take it off off. I got Katina Mobili who was a still playing his ass off and that big three, well he plays. He comes down. I never got on officials at m c I. They already thought they weren't capable of making a mistake. They'd had no ability to be critical of themselves. So he comes down and they call it walk. Well, he puts the ball on his hip and does a three sixty and lions on his feet. No, no, no, motherfucker, get the funk out of my game. I said, you don't want to be a basketball player, you want to be a thespian. So after the game he said, coach, you can call me all the copsuckers and motherfucker's you want. I ain't no fucking lesbian. Hey, hey, and Katina will tell you that that I'll sign. I hope you're still on the air tomorrow. We'll still we'll, we'll we'll still be on the air. Actually the best. We'll do part two soon. Thank you. Okay, if you thought that was not safe for work, there were some things that were edited out right, but generally that's an unedited form of of Max Good. That's part one. He's promised to join me. He's like, I'm not going anywhere. He's probably to enjoin me. For part two, we'll have Steve Lapis. If you didn't listen to part one, that was awesome, Well Steve laps part two next week. I can't tell you how much I appreciate you listening. Remember the download, subscribe, rate, writer, review, all the those things help us out, help us get you better content, and I think it will make me a little bit more money. In the meantime, enjoy the hoops good ones. This weekend, we'll talk some Lakers why they're a mess. We'll just try and put together the real tears in college basketball, some of the storylines, like I want to talk about why the PAC twelve I believe starts off so far down this year but will end up being just fine, although it won't be judged a stuff such once they get to March. We'll get to all that in an upcoming episode. In the meantime, thanks to Max Good and for you for listening. I hope you enjoyed that. I sure did. I'm Doug Gottlie. This is all ball