Hey, what a welcome, and I'm Doug Gottlieb and this is All Ball. I'll talk a little bit about my experience in college hoops and some of these articles that are that are coming out, which is interesting, and then we'll get you a very special All Ball guest. Our All Ball guest is actually a head college football coach and a really really good one, and I just think that his journey, his story. Lanthley pulls our guest on these next two All Ball pods. I just think we can all if you're a sports fan. I mean, that's what All balls about. This is kind of deep dive inside sports, and a lot of it for me is as you guys know, I use it to learn. It's like it's like a professional I don't know, consulting hour or so. So Lanceley pulls our guest on this version of All Ball. At the time of this recording, we've just won our second conference game, and obviously a lot of the weight has been lifted off our players back, some off of my back, and now that we've gotten to four wins on the season, we still have one more home game before we head on the road to begin the Horizon League Tournament. And as we've told people, hey.

Hey, what a welcome, and I'm Doug Gottlieb and this is All Ball. I'll talk a little bit about my experience in college hoops and some of these articles that are that are coming out, which is interesting, and then we'll get you a very special All Ball guest. Our All Ball guest is actually a head college football coach and a really really good one, and I just think that his journey, his story. Lanthley pulls our guest on these next two All Ball pods. I just think we can all if you're a sports fan. I mean, that's what All balls about. This is kind of deep dive inside sports, and a lot of it for me is as you guys know, I use it to learn. It's like it's like a professional I don't know, consulting hour or so. So Lanceley pulls our guest on this version of All Ball. At the time of this recording, we've just won our second conference game, and obviously a lot of the weight has been lifted off our players back, some off of my back, and now that we've gotten to four wins on the season, we still have one more home game before we head on the road to begin the Horizon League Tournament. And as we've told people, hey.

There's.

There's.

We have eleven games left, you know, on our schedule, actually still twelve games left, I guess, right, right, because one and then you got to win four games to win the conference tournament, and then we'd have to win seven games to win the NCAA tournament. So it's still some meat on the bone out there for us. But there is something really special about a group coming together when so many have frayed apart. And I would guess if you listened to this podcast, you like my work, whether you like me personally, and I just I think it's really really interesting in many ways. The misperception of what we do on pods, what we do on radio. You know, it's like even the lebron Bronnie take, like I'm not some fucking hot take artist, right. And my analysis of Bronnie going back to high school was I thought it'd be a damn good college player. He was not a McDonald's All American. He wasn't close. Nobody thought that. Nobody thought that. And then at USC he'd looked like a freshman. And my advice was, go play a duquane for one of your best friends. Have a great college career and if then you want to play in the NBA and you know your dad can help you, like great, But the shoehorning him in JJ Reddick saying he's you know, he's earned all of this, like all of that, it's just so fake. It's like one of those don't you have real friends that you're like, I don't know if I like this now to look for Lebron's Lebron's credit, like maybe he doesn't care what anybody thinks. This is he wants to do what he wants to do and what better way to end your NBA career? And I would be surprised if he wants to have Bryce play with him.

We have eleven games left, you know, on our schedule, actually still twelve games left, I guess, right, right, because one and then you got to win four games to win the conference tournament, and then we'd have to win seven games to win the NCAA tournament. So it's still some meat on the bone out there for us. But there is something really special about a group coming together when so many have frayed apart. And I would guess if you listened to this podcast, you like my work, whether you like me personally, and I just I think it's really really interesting in many ways. The misperception of what we do on pods, what we do on radio. You know, it's like even the lebron Bronnie take, like I'm not some fucking hot take artist, right. And my analysis of Bronnie going back to high school was I thought it'd be a damn good college player. He was not a McDonald's All American. He wasn't close. Nobody thought that. Nobody thought that. And then at USC he'd looked like a freshman. And my advice was, go play a duquane for one of your best friends. Have a great college career and if then you want to play in the NBA and you know your dad can help you, like great, But the shoehorning him in JJ Reddick saying he's you know, he's earned all of this, like all of that, it's just so fake. It's like one of those don't you have real friends that you're like, I don't know if I like this now to look for Lebron's Lebron's credit, like maybe he doesn't care what anybody thinks. This is he wants to do what he wants to do and what better way to end your NBA career? And I would be surprised if he wants to have Bryce play with him.

Now.

Now.

Bryce is not nearly this accomplished as Brownie, and you know he's going to Arizona. I don't see him playing very much in Arizona. But maybe the plan there is don't worry about it, go there for a year. Come and dad wants to play for two years. Then you'll play with both your boys. And there is something really cool about like I'm playing in the NBA and watching my sons grow up, Like that's very cool. But what it doesn't say is, hey, we want to win championships when they take up roster spots of guys that you need because they're not capable of playing. But none of it is like hot, Like a hot take to me is like an out of nowhere something that is not so over the top in terms of a statement that that it's it's not based upon real life. You know, it's like, uh, what is the We had somebody on Fox Sports Radio say that, like when Lamar Jackson was in a contract kind on a dispute or whatever with with the Baltimore Evens, Like mar Will never played for the Baltimore Evens. Again, it was a couple of years ago. He's playing for the Baltimore Evens. Like, do you have any factual information to that? No, if not, that's a hot take. So the misperception of how we do what we do, Like I'm not gonna say I'm milk toast. I have opinions, but they're all based upon sports, and they're all relatively reasonable, I think. But the part that I don't know I take the most pride in first is I have a team. We lost twenty two games in a row. It doesn't it doesn't seem possible we did, and yet we kept him together, kept him fighting, and they're closer now than they've ever been. There a really, really good group of kids. So I take great pride in like I had. There was one article that was written that said we didn't have great culture, and it was from somebody who had never been to Green Bay, never been to a game, hadn't seen my team or whatever, like, hey, we we had some growing up to do as a staff, as a roster, as a program, but we have grown up and that I would challenge anybody to be around our group and think we don't have good culture.

Bryce is not nearly this accomplished as Brownie, and you know he's going to Arizona. I don't see him playing very much in Arizona. But maybe the plan there is don't worry about it, go there for a year. Come and dad wants to play for two years. Then you'll play with both your boys. And there is something really cool about like I'm playing in the NBA and watching my sons grow up, Like that's very cool. But what it doesn't say is, hey, we want to win championships when they take up roster spots of guys that you need because they're not capable of playing. But none of it is like hot, Like a hot take to me is like an out of nowhere something that is not so over the top in terms of a statement that that it's it's not based upon real life. You know, it's like, uh, what is the We had somebody on Fox Sports Radio say that, like when Lamar Jackson was in a contract kind on a dispute or whatever with with the Baltimore Evens, Like mar Will never played for the Baltimore Evens. Again, it was a couple of years ago. He's playing for the Baltimore Evens. Like, do you have any factual information to that? No, if not, that's a hot take. So the misperception of how we do what we do, Like I'm not gonna say I'm milk toast. I have opinions, but they're all based upon sports, and they're all relatively reasonable, I think. But the part that I don't know I take the most pride in first is I have a team. We lost twenty two games in a row. It doesn't it doesn't seem possible we did, and yet we kept him together, kept him fighting, and they're closer now than they've ever been. There a really, really good group of kids. So I take great pride in like I had. There was one article that was written that said we didn't have great culture, and it was from somebody who had never been to Green Bay, never been to a game, hadn't seen my team or whatever, like, hey, we we had some growing up to do as a staff, as a roster, as a program, but we have grown up and that I would challenge anybody to be around our group and think we don't have good culture.

We have great culture.

We have great culture.

And then we have a really young group. But the part I take most pride in is and I think they're out of a place of honesty because they don't have to. But coach is pulling you aside, saying because you're doing a good job, because they're getting better, which means they think we know what we're doing. And I don't care about outside noise of people on social media. I actually don't really care about media people because not the analysts, but most of the media people. They weren't athletes, they weren't coaches, they haven't really been inside it. They don't actually know shit either. But people that matter that watch the games and they're like, oh, getting better or not getting better and alfer hous feedback, those are the ones I take most pride in because they're giving good feedback that we are getting better.

And then we have a really young group. But the part I take most pride in is and I think they're out of a place of honesty because they don't have to. But coach is pulling you aside, saying because you're doing a good job, because they're getting better, which means they think we know what we're doing. And I don't care about outside noise of people on social media. I actually don't really care about media people because not the analysts, but most of the media people. They weren't athletes, they weren't coaches, they haven't really been inside it. They don't actually know shit either. But people that matter that watch the games and they're like, oh, getting better or not getting better and alfer hous feedback, those are the ones I take most pride in because they're giving good feedback that we are getting better.

Be sure to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.

Be sure to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.

But part of my professional development series is reaching out to people who I am fascinated with what they've been able to do at different places, how they've been able to build it going through good years, bad years, tough places to coach. And our guest this week is Lanslee Poll. When you hear his story, you'd be like, wow, that's crazy crazy. He was a Division III player, Division three coach. He did have some Division one, Division two opportunities and did some other things, but at the end of the day, he was at Whitewater and could have been just a legendary Whitewater and coach there for his entire life. But instead he took a shot on building it at Buffalo and then eventually now at Kansas, and he's done some remarkable things. So let's catch up with the head coach of the Kansas Jayhawks and Football, Lance Sleepold. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is All Ball and welcome in this version of All Ball is our part two of Lance Sleepold. He's a head coach at Kansas Football. And in this portion of our discussion, we'll get to KU, right, what was it like to take over, how you built it, how you've been able to build, what feels like it's sustainable. And first we'll get to why take the KU job? Why leave Buffalo after he had built that one? So we'll get to all that. A little basketball within this is, you know, we talk a lot about my college team, and we can talk about the journey and what Championship Week is like, because that comes up this coming week and we'll start our journey on Tuesday. That'll be the first game in the Horizon League Tournament. Of course, those are hom sides first two rounds or home sites. We did not get a buy obviously, were the last seed, so we'll play the sixth seed on the road, and then if we win, we played the one seed on the road, which is Robert Morris. But I do think before we depart from the NBA because that's March. We like forget about the NBA for a month. You know, the most underdiscussed portion of the Luca trade is that Anthony Davis. He's not Luca. I think Luca's awesome. I think Luca's the best offensive player in the league. But Anthony Davis was pretty special and I may have even underrated him, undersold him for most of his career and the last year and a half that he's been healthy with the Lakers and you go back to win they won the championship. I mean, he's he's a motherfucker. He's a motherfucker. So I'm personally excited to see what that group looks like when he gets healthy, because now you have Kyrie, remember you're gonna have Derek Lively and what's the kid from Arkansas defending the rim? And that allows Anthony Davis to play mostly the four, and man, I mean he just killed dudes. So excited to see what it looks like. And it's like the least discussed portion of the trade is you know, Anthony Davis is really really good. I still think the Mavericks need a point guard. Kyrie's not really a point guard, but there should be incredible defensively, and they do have a lot of shooting, and they do have riom protection and they were in the NBA finals last year. All right, let's get back to some football discussion. Why would you leave your first Division one job a couple of years in to go take on the Kansas football issue. Kansas football has been good like two years in the past thirty Why would Lance Leopold do it? And how has he turned this sing around? And what was that first year like when they won two games? Let's get to that discussion right now with Landsleep. He's the head coach of the Kansas Jayhawks. And we always joked in the Big Twelve and those of you who listen to the pod, no, I'm a Big twelve alum. I haven't played oklhand State that wait till Kansas goes Division one and football. We used to joke, right because KU for the life of my existence within the Oklahoma State family, which is nineteen ninety seven until now, there was a like a two or three year spurt there where they were really competitive and obviously, you know, you talk about competing for an Orange Bowl, but outside of that, the stadium hadn't been updated and it just didn't feel like at the level of the rest of the league. With all that changed when our guest in today's pod took over. He's the head coach, and he's taken Kansas not only to consistent success in the Big Twelve, but so much so. New stadium is right on the horizon, and everyone I think used Kansas football at a completetive and Mighty's Lance Leopold. He joins us now on the All Ball podcast.

But part of my professional development series is reaching out to people who I am fascinated with what they've been able to do at different places, how they've been able to build it going through good years, bad years, tough places to coach. And our guest this week is Lanslee Poll. When you hear his story, you'd be like, wow, that's crazy crazy. He was a Division III player, Division three coach. He did have some Division one, Division two opportunities and did some other things, but at the end of the day, he was at Whitewater and could have been just a legendary Whitewater and coach there for his entire life. But instead he took a shot on building it at Buffalo and then eventually now at Kansas, and he's done some remarkable things. So let's catch up with the head coach of the Kansas Jayhawks and Football, Lance Sleepold. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is All Ball and welcome in this version of All Ball is our part two of Lance Sleepold. He's a head coach at Kansas Football. And in this portion of our discussion, we'll get to KU, right, what was it like to take over, how you built it, how you've been able to build, what feels like it's sustainable. And first we'll get to why take the KU job? Why leave Buffalo after he had built that one? So we'll get to all that. A little basketball within this is, you know, we talk a lot about my college team, and we can talk about the journey and what Championship Week is like, because that comes up this coming week and we'll start our journey on Tuesday. That'll be the first game in the Horizon League Tournament. Of course, those are hom sides first two rounds or home sites. We did not get a buy obviously, were the last seed, so we'll play the sixth seed on the road, and then if we win, we played the one seed on the road, which is Robert Morris. But I do think before we depart from the NBA because that's March. We like forget about the NBA for a month. You know, the most underdiscussed portion of the Luca trade is that Anthony Davis. He's not Luca. I think Luca's awesome. I think Luca's the best offensive player in the league. But Anthony Davis was pretty special and I may have even underrated him, undersold him for most of his career and the last year and a half that he's been healthy with the Lakers and you go back to win they won the championship. I mean, he's he's a motherfucker. He's a motherfucker. So I'm personally excited to see what that group looks like when he gets healthy, because now you have Kyrie, remember you're gonna have Derek Lively and what's the kid from Arkansas defending the rim? And that allows Anthony Davis to play mostly the four, and man, I mean he just killed dudes. So excited to see what it looks like. And it's like the least discussed portion of the trade is you know, Anthony Davis is really really good. I still think the Mavericks need a point guard. Kyrie's not really a point guard, but there should be incredible defensively, and they do have a lot of shooting, and they do have riom protection and they were in the NBA finals last year. All right, let's get back to some football discussion. Why would you leave your first Division one job a couple of years in to go take on the Kansas football issue. Kansas football has been good like two years in the past thirty Why would Lance Leopold do it? And how has he turned this sing around? And what was that first year like when they won two games? Let's get to that discussion right now with Landsleep. He's the head coach of the Kansas Jayhawks. And we always joked in the Big Twelve and those of you who listen to the pod, no, I'm a Big twelve alum. I haven't played oklhand State that wait till Kansas goes Division one and football. We used to joke, right because KU for the life of my existence within the Oklahoma State family, which is nineteen ninety seven until now, there was a like a two or three year spurt there where they were really competitive and obviously, you know, you talk about competing for an Orange Bowl, but outside of that, the stadium hadn't been updated and it just didn't feel like at the level of the rest of the league. With all that changed when our guest in today's pod took over. He's the head coach, and he's taken Kansas not only to consistent success in the Big Twelve, but so much so. New stadium is right on the horizon, and everyone I think used Kansas football at a completetive and Mighty's Lance Leopold. He joins us now on the All Ball podcast.

Let's start with.

Let's start with.

You before you took over the job. And I usually like to go in chronological order and start with growing up in Wisconsin. We'll get to that. But when you were a Division three head coach at Whitewater, your alma mater, did you ever think about Kansas football in reality?

You before you took over the job. And I usually like to go in chronological order and start with growing up in Wisconsin. We'll get to that. But when you were a Division three head coach at Whitewater, your alma mater, did you ever think about Kansas football in reality?

No, no, Doug, not at all. I had spent ten of the previous thirteen years in Omaha, Nebraska coaching Division two ball. I think when I went to Whitewater, my wife's from Omaha. I thought, if there was ever another move, maybe the coach that i'd worked for all that time, when he retired, maybe I'd be a Division two head coach. There wasn't any big grand plan to try to be an FBS head coach in the MAC or the Big twelve or anything. I think I'm probably living a when you really look at it, Oh, no question.

No, no, Doug, not at all. I had spent ten of the previous thirteen years in Omaha, Nebraska coaching Division two ball. I think when I went to Whitewater, my wife's from Omaha. I thought, if there was ever another move, maybe the coach that i'd worked for all that time, when he retired, maybe I'd be a Division two head coach. There wasn't any big grand plan to try to be an FBS head coach in the MAC or the Big twelve or anything. I think I'm probably living a when you really look at it, Oh, no question.

But I mean even when you thought of Big twelve, like Kansas was so far down the list of schools that you'd want to talk about. You know, it's like, I know, you worked in Nebraska for a little bit, like Nebraska, like Okay, that was that's big time college football. Oklahoma it's big time college football. And then and then there's Kansas. It's very unique that you take over at Kansas and you stay at a Kansas when you've got success.

But I mean even when you thought of Big twelve, like Kansas was so far down the list of schools that you'd want to talk about. You know, it's like, I know, you worked in Nebraska for a little bit, like Nebraska, like Okay, that was that's big time college football. Oklahoma it's big time college football. And then and then there's Kansas. It's very unique that you take over at Kansas and you stay at a Kansas when you've got success.

Right well, you know, I joked. I joked as we were having success in the twenty two and twenty three season that sometimes our communications staff would you know, they give you those little tidbits before you do an interview about this is the first time since whatever year and whatever time that something had been accomplished and some of those things had gone back into the nineteen thirties or something. I said, if I really would have done a good job doing my research, I probably would have interviewed for the job. But there were some things there, and there's some tough times, but you know, the things that really aligned well of opportunity. You know, when we went into Buffalo, we took on a rebuilding project, and you know, we've always felt that, whether it be a Division III or in the MAC, that we could assemble a staff and build a program and maintain consistency. And that's what we've been striving for. And now that you know we've been able to have success, we have commitment, we have new things on the horizon, and in this new era of college athletics, I think anybody has a chance in any given year.

Right well, you know, I joked. I joked as we were having success in the twenty two and twenty three season that sometimes our communications staff would you know, they give you those little tidbits before you do an interview about this is the first time since whatever year and whatever time that something had been accomplished and some of those things had gone back into the nineteen thirties or something. I said, if I really would have done a good job doing my research, I probably would have interviewed for the job. But there were some things there, and there's some tough times, but you know, the things that really aligned well of opportunity. You know, when we went into Buffalo, we took on a rebuilding project, and you know, we've always felt that, whether it be a Division III or in the MAC, that we could assemble a staff and build a program and maintain consistency. And that's what we've been striving for. And now that you know we've been able to have success, we have commitment, we have new things on the horizon, and in this new era of college athletics, I think anybody has a chance in any given year.

I completely agree with you. Let's start back going to college.

I completely agree with you. Let's start back going to college.

Right.

Right.

You went to Whitewater's Division III program. What was it like for you in terms of deciding on a school growing up in Wisconsin?

You went to Whitewater's Division III program. What was it like for you in terms of deciding on a school growing up in Wisconsin?

Well, you know, I grew up my parents went to Whitewater, my sister went to everybody. I grew up about fifteen minutes from Whitewater. I originally was going to go to Western Michigan and then my mother had been diagnosed with cancer that summer and decided to kind of re reevaluate, stay closer a home. Had a lot of good friends there. You know. The unique thing about Division three athletics and maybe you see it a little bit in your time Dow in Green Bay is that the Division three state schools in Wisconsin probably play a Division two type level of athletics. Based on that, there's really not Division two athletics in in Wisconsin. There's not FCS football, so there's a good, good brand of football there. So kind of went there and after after college, decided I wanted to try to explore the coaching route. About nineteen ninety out a chance to meet Barry Alvarez at the State Coaches Clinic in Madison, and was fortunate to get hired as a graduate assistant after his first year and be part of that building process and from the ninety one ninety two ninety three seasons.

Well, you know, I grew up my parents went to Whitewater, my sister went to everybody. I grew up about fifteen minutes from Whitewater. I originally was going to go to Western Michigan and then my mother had been diagnosed with cancer that summer and decided to kind of re reevaluate, stay closer a home. Had a lot of good friends there. You know. The unique thing about Division three athletics and maybe you see it a little bit in your time Dow in Green Bay is that the Division three state schools in Wisconsin probably play a Division two type level of athletics. Based on that, there's really not Division two athletics in in Wisconsin. There's not FCS football, so there's a good, good brand of football there. So kind of went there and after after college, decided I wanted to try to explore the coaching route. About nineteen ninety out a chance to meet Barry Alvarez at the State Coaches Clinic in Madison, and was fortunate to get hired as a graduate assistant after his first year and be part of that building process and from the ninety one ninety two ninety three seasons.

Okay, well, let's let's go back to what were you like as a player?

Okay, well, let's let's go back to what were you like as a player?

You know, I don't know. I was probably if I look at it, probably drive myself crazy as a coach. Probably I probably had a decent arm. I had pretty good mobility. Not the fastest guy, but I could avoid a rush. Probably didn't have enough pocket patients in my early days.

You know, I don't know. I was probably if I look at it, probably drive myself crazy as a coach. Probably I probably had a decent arm. I had pretty good mobility. Not the fastest guy, but I could avoid a rush. Probably didn't have enough pocket patients in my early days.

But you guys run it like this is eighties, you guys running power high.

But you guys run it like this is eighties, you guys running power high.

Yeah, we will go back then. It was some power eyes of my senior year of high school. After our first four games we struggled, and the head coach kind of abandoned that. We actually went to the shotgun and and uh and and when four receivers start spreading some things out and we started evolved to that in my junior year, my first full year as a starter. And at Whitewater there's a game against River Falls. We threw fifty seven times, so there were some times that we had chance to air it out. But yeah, that football back then in the eighties versus what we see now is completely different.

Yeah, we will go back then. It was some power eyes of my senior year of high school. After our first four games we struggled, and the head coach kind of abandoned that. We actually went to the shotgun and and uh and and when four receivers start spreading some things out and we started evolved to that in my junior year, my first full year as a starter. And at Whitewater there's a game against River Falls. We threw fifty seven times, so there were some times that we had chance to air it out. But yeah, that football back then in the eighties versus what we see now is completely different.

Whitewater's biggest rival.

Whitewater's biggest rival.

Is here Lacrosse Wisconsin Cross was always the rival, still is to this day, and it's good, healthy rivalry of two good programs.

Is here Lacrosse Wisconsin Cross was always the rival, still is to this day, and it's good, healthy rivalry of two good programs.

How far what's the distance between the two places, the.

How far what's the distance between the two places, the.

Two and a half maybe something like that, you know what each side of the state there on the on the border over there on on the on the western side. But uh, you know, I think just the way that league set up, you know a lot of a lot of competitive people about both schools have good education programs, and you know a lot of back in the back in the seventies eighties, a lot of a lot of guys that want to be teachers and coaches that end up in the state went to those schools, so it is always very competitive.

Two and a half maybe something like that, you know what each side of the state there on the on the border over there on on the on the western side. But uh, you know, I think just the way that league set up, you know a lot of a lot of competitive people about both schools have good education programs, and you know a lot of back in the back in the seventies eighties, a lot of a lot of guys that want to be teachers and coaches that end up in the state went to those schools, so it is always very competitive.

We got to have that conversation. Do people I have one kid who wants to be a coach, but do kids still want to be coaches? Does anybody go like, hey, I just I just want.

We got to have that conversation. Do people I have one kid who wants to be a coach, but do kids still want to be coaches? Does anybody go like, hey, I just I just want.

To be a coach? Well, yeah, I think we have to worry about today. Sometimes at this level, you got to make sure people want to coach for the right reason and making impacts and and love of the game. I think, you know, at our levels now, the money's the money is excellent, and sometimes you got to make sure that you're going to go into it. And you know, I say to some of our younger coaches now that I'm on the older side of things about paying your dues and a lot of times about you know, having to you know, do do some of the things of lining fields and doing laundry and doing things at the smaller college level sometimes right now, you know, some some people want to be coordinators before their even position coaches. So I think there is I think there's people that love the game and do some things. But like you're saying, is I think sometimes guys dip their toes in the water and I find out that there's a lot of hours and a lot of things go into it, and just showing up for practicing games right.

To be a coach? Well, yeah, I think we have to worry about today. Sometimes at this level, you got to make sure people want to coach for the right reason and making impacts and and love of the game. I think, you know, at our levels now, the money's the money is excellent, and sometimes you got to make sure that you're going to go into it. And you know, I say to some of our younger coaches now that I'm on the older side of things about paying your dues and a lot of times about you know, having to you know, do do some of the things of lining fields and doing laundry and doing things at the smaller college level sometimes right now, you know, some some people want to be coordinators before their even position coaches. So I think there is I think there's people that love the game and do some things. But like you're saying, is I think sometimes guys dip their toes in the water and I find out that there's a lot of hours and a lot of things go into it, and just showing up for practicing games right.

Well, they also think what the head coach at the high major level makes is uh, it's a quick transition to that which you remember once you mad your first year, you get down to college and your quarterback coach at your all the monor so, by the way, that had to be awkward because there's a lot of guys you're coaching who you had played with previously.

Well, they also think what the head coach at the high major level makes is uh, it's a quick transition to that which you remember once you mad your first year, you get down to college and your quarterback coach at your all the monor so, by the way, that had to be awkward because there's a lot of guys you're coaching who you had played with previously.

Yeah, I didn't, you know. At first, I kind of skipped a little bit of story. I was going to go into law enforcement. I was taking the state exams to be a police officer and things like.

Yeah, I didn't, you know. At first, I kind of skipped a little bit of story. I was going to go into law enforcement. I was taking the state exams to be a police officer and things like.

State police or local police as well.

State police or local police as well.

It was more I just wanted to kind of get into law for so I was taking state exams for different police departments and around the state. I actually ended up in my hometown working part time and went to the academy. Part what were you doing? Hold on, what were you what were you doing part time? Back then they let you in a squad car. I was like, you know, well, you were a part time with the police. Yeah, and I was going to Yeah, back then, it was almost like you know, one bullet Barney Fife and they give you a car and you're kind of shadowing with people. And I would I would do these the segments of the academy at Waukee Shaw Tech and and they're outside of Milwaukee and and and do some things. But but I didn't have any full time gig. As Paul Camp rolled around, and I went down and talked to my former head coach, Bob Breswitz, and he's like, hey, if you if you want to come hang out and help coach Camp, you can. And I went down there and start helping and I never left. And I think you're kind of saying, what do you get paid and stuff? I think I got five hundred dollars my first year. And I tell people this all the time, Doug is I never made over fifteen thousand dollars until I was thirty years old. And it's it's been a long it was a long ride, and and you know.

It was more I just wanted to kind of get into law for so I was taking state exams for different police departments and around the state. I actually ended up in my hometown working part time and went to the academy. Part what were you doing? Hold on, what were you what were you doing part time? Back then they let you in a squad car. I was like, you know, well, you were a part time with the police. Yeah, and I was going to Yeah, back then, it was almost like you know, one bullet Barney Fife and they give you a car and you're kind of shadowing with people. And I would I would do these the segments of the academy at Waukee Shaw Tech and and they're outside of Milwaukee and and and do some things. But but I didn't have any full time gig. As Paul Camp rolled around, and I went down and talked to my former head coach, Bob Breswitz, and he's like, hey, if you if you want to come hang out and help coach Camp, you can. And I went down there and start helping and I never left. And I think you're kind of saying, what do you get paid and stuff? I think I got five hundred dollars my first year. And I tell people this all the time, Doug is I never made over fifteen thousand dollars until I was thirty years old. And it's it's been a long it was a long ride, and and you know.

You'd have to apologize to nobody coach zero zero people you have to apologize to here, So why keep doing the coaching and not go to law enforcement? Were you a mad top. That was that your problem?

You'd have to apologize to nobody coach zero zero people you have to apologize to here, So why keep doing the coaching and not go to law enforcement? Were you a mad top. That was that your problem?

Well, I'll tell you it was twofold one. It was hard to get full time employment just going through all the state exams and the procedures at the time. But you know, even back in my in my small hometown, you know a lot of those things. In those I was the only person in the department, even as part time, that had a college degree. But yet it was seniority based. And and I'm working third shift. A lot usually was just filling shifts. There would be vacations, and you know, a guy take a week or two whatever, or somebody goes to the academy for some special training, and and then somebody does a fill in, and the guys working third shift want to work second or first. So and then there's one night in a small town of about six thousand people at the time where a car hasn't gone by in three hours and I and I'm sitting there thinking to myself, I thought I went to college, not to work third shift. Yeah, and I and instead of going home and sleeping right after my shift was done, I drove back to Whitewater and I got an application to graduate school.

Well, I'll tell you it was twofold one. It was hard to get full time employment just going through all the state exams and the procedures at the time. But you know, even back in my in my small hometown, you know a lot of those things. In those I was the only person in the department, even as part time, that had a college degree. But yet it was seniority based. And and I'm working third shift. A lot usually was just filling shifts. There would be vacations, and you know, a guy take a week or two whatever, or somebody goes to the academy for some special training, and and then somebody does a fill in, and the guys working third shift want to work second or first. So and then there's one night in a small town of about six thousand people at the time where a car hasn't gone by in three hours and I and I'm sitting there thinking to myself, I thought I went to college, not to work third shift. Yeah, and I and instead of going home and sleeping right after my shift was done, I drove back to Whitewater and I got an application to graduate school.

So you go to graduate school and you're a grad coach.

So you go to graduate school and you're a grad coach.

What was the experience like, Yeah, you know, I was a graduate. I was a grad coach at at Whitewater for a bit and doing my I kind of took us. And then I took a job in a small private school in Nebraska where I think, you know, you've gone through your father to coach. You take those small jobs. And I was running a dorm and coaching football and doing intermarals and actually learned a lot through that experience. And then I went back to Whitewater finished my masters.

What was the experience like, Yeah, you know, I was a graduate. I was a grad coach at at Whitewater for a bit and doing my I kind of took us. And then I took a job in a small private school in Nebraska where I think, you know, you've gone through your father to coach. You take those small jobs. And I was running a dorm and coaching football and doing intermarals and actually learned a lot through that experience. And then I went back to Whitewater finished my masters.

But don't don't skip over create Nebraska, now, I don't skip out. So okay, So your two years in grad school and you're coaching quarterbacks, wide receivers, your own manor how did how did doan job come to be?

But don't don't skip over create Nebraska, now, I don't skip out. So okay, So your two years in grad school and you're coaching quarterbacks, wide receivers, your own manor how did how did doan job come to be?

Well, one of my best friends of this day, who's actually was Roger Hughes, who's the coach that was end up being the head coach at Princeton. He started the program back up at Stetson. He's actually now the president of Doan University. From football coach to president like a Jim Tressel. But we worked together in nineteen eighty eight in Whitewater and we became really good friends and that was his alma mater, and he kind of connected me with the head coach. He knew I wanted to try to move up levels, but he told me, Lance, you've been at Whitewater too long. You need to go to experience something else. And he was one hundred percent right. So I went and I and I did it, and you know, it was again a good learning experience.

Well, one of my best friends of this day, who's actually was Roger Hughes, who's the coach that was end up being the head coach at Princeton. He started the program back up at Stetson. He's actually now the president of Doan University. From football coach to president like a Jim Tressel. But we worked together in nineteen eighty eight in Whitewater and we became really good friends and that was his alma mater, and he kind of connected me with the head coach. He knew I wanted to try to move up levels, but he told me, Lance, you've been at Whitewater too long. You need to go to experience something else. And he was one hundred percent right. So I went and I and I did it, and you know, it was again a good learning experience.

Okay, give me one thing.

Okay, give me one thing.

One memory of coaching at Doan and Create Nebraska.

One memory of coaching at Doan and Create Nebraska.

Okay, Well, I remember, like we had this small, small stadiums and you know they're shared with high schools, and you know, we're fortunate at white Water. I have good facilities and stuff. And we have this little press box there and at the at the school and I asked the guy one of the I asked the secondary coach. I said, so, what side of the press box are we on? And he said, we're on top of the press box. I go, what do you mean we're on top of the press but he goes, yeah, we sit on folding chairs on top of the press box. So my parents had come down to watch me coach my first game, and here I come walking up the stands with a folding chair and I had to carry the folding chair up the ladder to go coach. And I'm like, here, I am a big time college, big time inn Ai coach, here carrying a carrying a chair up a ladder right before kickoff.

Okay, Well, I remember, like we had this small, small stadiums and you know they're shared with high schools, and you know, we're fortunate at white Water. I have good facilities and stuff. And we have this little press box there and at the at the school and I asked the guy one of the I asked the secondary coach. I said, so, what side of the press box are we on? And he said, we're on top of the press box. I go, what do you mean we're on top of the press but he goes, yeah, we sit on folding chairs on top of the press box. So my parents had come down to watch me coach my first game, and here I come walking up the stands with a folding chair and I had to carry the folding chair up the ladder to go coach. And I'm like, here, I am a big time college, big time inn Ai coach, here carrying a carrying a chair up a ladder right before kickoff.

What'd your parents say?

What'd your parents say?

Yeah? Then, you know they you know, it's one of those things where your parents are waiting for you to find direction and get a job and kind of get on it, you know, find it. But they they knew from my time at Whitewater that it was something I was passionate about and wanted to do, and they were very supportive through the years.

Yeah? Then, you know they you know, it's one of those things where your parents are waiting for you to find direction and get a job and kind of get on it, you know, find it. But they they knew from my time at Whitewater that it was something I was passionate about and wanted to do, and they were very supportive through the years.

Yeah, my dad, he loved to tell the story that his first college job he was a he was a high school coach. He replaced Huge Brown at fair Lawn High School in New Jersey. That was his first job, and then he was at Dylanvale, Ohio. He went to Ohio State John Howich, he was a JV player, John Hawichack Bob Knight. Those guys were star varsity players and Hondo helped him get a job close to his hometown in Dylonville, Ohio. Then he was at Colorado Springs High School.

Yeah, my dad, he loved to tell the story that his first college job he was a he was a high school coach. He replaced Huge Brown at fair Lawn High School in New Jersey. That was his first job, and then he was at Dylanvale, Ohio. He went to Ohio State John Howich, he was a JV player, John Hawichack Bob Knight. Those guys were star varsity players and Hondo helped him get a job close to his hometown in Dylonville, Ohio. Then he was at Colorado Springs High School.

For a year.

For a year.

Then he was at Death Valley High School where he drove the school bus, picked kids up, had had taught history, had basketball practice, drove the kids home. The all timer.

Then he was at Death Valley High School where he drove the school bus, picked kids up, had had taught history, had basketball practice, drove the kids home. The all timer.

Right.

Right.

And then when his first college job was at Quinnipiac, which is now Division one, was then an AIA and he was the freshman head coach, the varsity assistant, the head soccer coach, and the head golf coach. And he'd never hit a golf ball. He knew nothing about soccer. And so he learned about soccer by buying a begetting a uh, checking out a book at the library. And then he had to learn to line in the field and he learned.

And then when his first college job was at Quinnipiac, which is now Division one, was then an AIA and he was the freshman head coach, the varsity assistant, the head soccer coach, and the head golf coach. And he'd never hit a golf ball. He knew nothing about soccer. And so he learned about soccer by buying a begetting a uh, checking out a book at the library. And then he had to learn to line in the field and he learned.

All the rules of soccer. That that's how he did. Had no idea, and that's that's what you did back in the day, and and and they and he loved every minute of it.

All the rules of soccer. That that's how he did. Had no idea, and that's that's what you did back in the day, and and and they and he loved every minute of it.

Probably no question, no question, never a bat, never a bad word said about Burt Kahn or Quinnipiac or or or anything. Okay, So but one year was enough. You're like, I'm out, I got to go back home.

Probably no question, no question, never a bat, never a bad word said about Burt Kahn or Quinnipiac or or or anything. Okay, So but one year was enough. You're like, I'm out, I got to go back home.

Yeah it was. You know. Bob Breuswiz, head coach at Whitewater, asked me to come back and help him, uh run the offense, they had taken a dip, and uh so I went back, finished up and and and completed my masters. And then and then I had a chance to, like like I said, to meet Barry Alvarez that spring, and and uh so I started driving up the Madison a lot during during spring practice. And finally, after about my fourth trip, he he asked me what I had gone and I said, well, I really like to be in Madison and he said, well, as far as I'm concerned, you got the job if you wanted. So it ended up being the life changing, uh opportunity for me.

Yeah it was. You know. Bob Breuswiz, head coach at Whitewater, asked me to come back and help him, uh run the offense, they had taken a dip, and uh so I went back, finished up and and and completed my masters. And then and then I had a chance to, like like I said, to meet Barry Alvarez that spring, and and uh so I started driving up the Madison a lot during during spring practice. And finally, after about my fourth trip, he he asked me what I had gone and I said, well, I really like to be in Madison and he said, well, as far as I'm concerned, you got the job if you wanted. So it ended up being the life changing, uh opportunity for me.

Okay, but when you got there again, help me out if I'm wrong. The year before you got there, they were terrible, right, that was very his first year they were one in ten, Yes, sir, yes, sir, yep. So, so what was what was? Because Barry Avas now is like a godfather, right, it's just the ring. This guy's done everything. What was he like then?

Okay, but when you got there again, help me out if I'm wrong. The year before you got there, they were terrible, right, that was very his first year they were one in ten, Yes, sir, yes, sir, yep. So, so what was what was? Because Barry Avas now is like a godfather, right, it's just the ring. This guy's done everything. What was he like then?

No? Again, extremely confident and confident in the plan that they could get it done. I mean there were times where I'm sure was you know, things could waiver a little bit, but he had such an excellent staff, Dan McCartney, who ended up being a head coach. You know j Norbel, the current head coach at Colorado State, Brad Schilders, who was the NFL head coach, Bill Callahan. You know there's some I look back the coach Bill Callahan. Yeah, yeah, Like Bill was head coach of the Raiders Nebraska, but he's probably the best offensive line coach that there is. And I look back at just the opportunity, the people I sat in the room with and just listened to about football and experiences. But we're five and six the first the next year, five and six the next year, then we won the Big Ten and won that first Rose Bowl. But watching it come together and watching his confidence, the work ethic of the of the staff, all those things were because you know, he always referred to things between really three people. He talked about Bob Devanny, who he played for at Nebraska. He talked about Lou Holtz, and he talked about Hayden Fry, and he talked about those people and what they were able to do in building programs. I was always a great foundation. But as you know, Barry had a plan and he was awful confident in how he did and stuck to it.

No? Again, extremely confident and confident in the plan that they could get it done. I mean there were times where I'm sure was you know, things could waiver a little bit, but he had such an excellent staff, Dan McCartney, who ended up being a head coach. You know j Norbel, the current head coach at Colorado State, Brad Schilders, who was the NFL head coach, Bill Callahan. You know there's some I look back the coach Bill Callahan. Yeah, yeah, Like Bill was head coach of the Raiders Nebraska, but he's probably the best offensive line coach that there is. And I look back at just the opportunity, the people I sat in the room with and just listened to about football and experiences. But we're five and six the first the next year, five and six the next year, then we won the Big Ten and won that first Rose Bowl. But watching it come together and watching his confidence, the work ethic of the of the staff, all those things were because you know, he always referred to things between really three people. He talked about Bob Devanny, who he played for at Nebraska. He talked about Lou Holtz, and he talked about Hayden Fry, and he talked about those people and what they were able to do in building programs. I was always a great foundation. But as you know, Barry had a plan and he was awful confident in how he did and stuck to it.

Be sure to catch live editions of the Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.

Be sure to catch live editions of the Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.

Okay, let's talk about the nineteen ninety three Rose Bowl team, right where he had Daryl Belvill, who's been an outstanding offense, the coordinator in the NFL, is the quarterback. What did you know? And that's a weird year too, because actually the only loss in the year was to Minnesota, right of all teams back when they played in the Dome. Right, you've been around there a couple of years. Did you know that that team was going to be something special?

Okay, let's talk about the nineteen ninety three Rose Bowl team, right where he had Daryl Belvill, who's been an outstanding offense, the coordinator in the NFL, is the quarterback. What did you know? And that's a weird year too, because actually the only loss in the year was to Minnesota, right of all teams back when they played in the Dome. Right, you've been around there a couple of years. Did you know that that team was going to be something special?

Well, if I'd back it up the year before, Doug was we're five and five, and if we beat Northwestern last game of the year, we're going to go to one of them. We're either going to go to the free eat them bull or I forgot the other one. And we were driving down to kick a game winning field goal and we end up fumbling. And it was heartbreaking loss because we really looked at as that going to be the year that we could we could kind of take take the leap into Bowld thing. But we knew we had enough coming back and there was enough things that we could get off to a good start. The pieces were in place, there was enough returning talent, and there was a good confidence to win it all. Probably not, but you know, we we had that stretch where we we upset Michigan, we we tie Ohio State, and the place was rocking. And then we had to go to Tokyo, Japan to play the last regular season game to to to clinch the Rose Bowl berth against Michigan State.

Well, if I'd back it up the year before, Doug was we're five and five, and if we beat Northwestern last game of the year, we're going to go to one of them. We're either going to go to the free eat them bull or I forgot the other one. And we were driving down to kick a game winning field goal and we end up fumbling. And it was heartbreaking loss because we really looked at as that going to be the year that we could we could kind of take take the leap into Bowld thing. But we knew we had enough coming back and there was enough things that we could get off to a good start. The pieces were in place, there was enough returning talent, and there was a good confidence to win it all. Probably not, but you know, we we had that stretch where we we upset Michigan, we we tie Ohio State, and the place was rocking. And then we had to go to Tokyo, Japan to play the last regular season game to to to clinch the Rose Bowl berth against Michigan State.

That's crazy, Okay, So then what's next? Like, what what is it like to then be a part of this meteoric rise at Wisconsin. You're from Wisconsin and you have all of these different other future head coaches that when you go to Rosebull you know it works. You're dealing with it. In the last couple of years, everybody plucks guys off staff. What were your conversations with coach al res like and how did it affect your plan?

That's crazy, Okay, So then what's next? Like, what what is it like to then be a part of this meteoric rise at Wisconsin. You're from Wisconsin and you have all of these different other future head coaches that when you go to Rosebull you know it works. You're dealing with it. In the last couple of years, everybody plucks guys off staff. What were your conversations with coach al res like and how did it affect your plan?

Well, you know, at that time, you know, there were starting to be rumbles about a few guys being involved with stuff. Actually, the job I ended up taking it opened up while we were at the Rose Bowl, and I'll always be grateful for Barry Is. We're in a staff meeting, and Pat Burns is a gentleman I worked for for a long time to brask Omaha. He said to Jim Hubert are running back coach at the time, that hey, did you see that that Pat got the Omaha job? And Barry's wife is from Omaha. And he's like, that could be a good job. And Jim's like, yeah, I'm gonna try to get Lance in on that. And then Barry goes, we're gonna call it right after this meeting, So so you know, coach made phone call, try to help me out there. I think that it was about a year away before the guys really started and Dan McCartney got the Iowa State job, and and and and Brad Childers went to the NFL, and then Bill followed shortly thereafter. You know, there's a lot of rumbles, a lot of things going and and and guys you could see were starting to get their plan to take the next career move. Coach Alvarez was mentioned for NFL jobs as well as others. So it's probably the first time you got to you got to just keep your head down, keep working hard. You know, there was an opportunity for to stay and work behind the scenes and in some ways, but I wanted to I wanted to coach and coach a position. So it worked out for me to make the move to Omaha.

Well, you know, at that time, you know, there were starting to be rumbles about a few guys being involved with stuff. Actually, the job I ended up taking it opened up while we were at the Rose Bowl, and I'll always be grateful for Barry Is. We're in a staff meeting, and Pat Burns is a gentleman I worked for for a long time to brask Omaha. He said to Jim Hubert are running back coach at the time, that hey, did you see that that Pat got the Omaha job? And Barry's wife is from Omaha. And he's like, that could be a good job. And Jim's like, yeah, I'm gonna try to get Lance in on that. And then Barry goes, we're gonna call it right after this meeting, So so you know, coach made phone call, try to help me out there. I think that it was about a year away before the guys really started and Dan McCartney got the Iowa State job, and and and and Brad Childers went to the NFL, and then Bill followed shortly thereafter. You know, there's a lot of rumbles, a lot of things going and and and guys you could see were starting to get their plan to take the next career move. Coach Alvarez was mentioned for NFL jobs as well as others. So it's probably the first time you got to you got to just keep your head down, keep working hard. You know, there was an opportunity for to stay and work behind the scenes and in some ways, but I wanted to I wanted to coach and coach a position. So it worked out for me to make the move to Omaha.

When you went to UH Nebraska, you were at Nebraska for two years? Is that Solos?

When you went to UH Nebraska, you were at Nebraska for two years? Is that Solos?

Yeah? It was Frank Solis. Yeah.

Yeah? It was Frank Solis. Yeah.

Why why didn't they embrace him?

Why why didn't they embrace him?

You know? I I think, you know, expectations, the game was slowly changing a little bit. There was a dip, you know, sustaining as you know most places, to play at such a high level for such a long time is very difficult. I think, you know, taking over for a legendary coach, there was things probably in the staff that he kept everybody that up until for a couple of years, and then he made changes. It was when he was forced to make changes and they won nine games that year and then let him go even after he made the staff changes. I just think there were some things that after it dipped. I think the new athletic director came in and wanted to hire his own person, and a lot of times coaches can fall victim of that. I think when Frank gave up the play calling and just focused on being a head coach, I think he really became a good head coach, and I think his success at Ohio really showed that as well. In a very difficult situation as well. But it was unfortunate because Frank's a very good man. He's become a good friend through our time in the MAC together. Have great respect for him, and he probably gave me an opportunity that has definitely helped me my career.

You know? I I think, you know, expectations, the game was slowly changing a little bit. There was a dip, you know, sustaining as you know most places, to play at such a high level for such a long time is very difficult. I think, you know, taking over for a legendary coach, there was things probably in the staff that he kept everybody that up until for a couple of years, and then he made changes. It was when he was forced to make changes and they won nine games that year and then let him go even after he made the staff changes. I just think there were some things that after it dipped. I think the new athletic director came in and wanted to hire his own person, and a lot of times coaches can fall victim of that. I think when Frank gave up the play calling and just focused on being a head coach, I think he really became a good head coach, and I think his success at Ohio really showed that as well. In a very difficult situation as well. But it was unfortunate because Frank's a very good man. He's become a good friend through our time in the MAC together. Have great respect for him, and he probably gave me an opportunity that has definitely helped me my career.

Two thousand and seven, your life life changed, right, Uh? Your all the matter the job came open. What do you remember about the process in job coming open and getting it?

Two thousand and seven, your life life changed, right, Uh? Your all the matter the job came open. What do you remember about the process in job coming open and getting it?

Well, you know I knew that that. You know, coach Breswis had told me that he was going to be stepping down. They announced it before the year. I had a chance to have an informal conversation with athletic director Paul Plinsky. And then then when the job officially opened, they were still in the playoffs. They're making a deep run. They called set up the interview right before Christmas went the whitewater did it. Didn't really know where it was going to land for me, my wife and I. We went out to Denver to see my wife's sister and family and why we're coming back, and then so Shortly thereafter I got the call and was offered the job, and it was definitely life changing.

Well, you know I knew that that. You know, coach Breswis had told me that he was going to be stepping down. They announced it before the year. I had a chance to have an informal conversation with athletic director Paul Plinsky. And then then when the job officially opened, they were still in the playoffs. They're making a deep run. They called set up the interview right before Christmas went the whitewater did it. Didn't really know where it was going to land for me, my wife and I. We went out to Denver to see my wife's sister and family and why we're coming back, and then so Shortly thereafter I got the call and was offered the job, and it was definitely life changing.

What what's so, what was the first or when you've been in a place as long as you had been at Whitewater some player, an assistant coach, but now you roll back into town as the head coach, what's that experience like?

What what's so, what was the first or when you've been in a place as long as you had been at Whitewater some player, an assistant coach, but now you roll back into town as the head coach, what's that experience like?

Well, it's it's mixed emotions because you know, there's things that you want to put you know, and I'm sure you've done it as a head coach. Are are certain things that you want to you want to do because you believe in them, and if you aways wanted to do it, white Water is still had success and there's there sometimes you know too much about some things that you want to just change. And then there's but there's things that you got to keep in respect tradition, There's there's some uniqueness. So so finding the blend of all of that was probably difficult. You know, you don't have a full staff of full time people. You don't have you know, embracing how to do that, how to how to put a staff together. Not everybody elected to stay all those things, so there's a it was a whirlwind there of a of of some things in that very first year, and then they had played at at a high level. They're the two previous years. Still, it was it was taking over something with high expectations as well.

Well, it's it's mixed emotions because you know, there's things that you want to put you know, and I'm sure you've done it as a head coach. Are are certain things that you want to you want to do because you believe in them, and if you aways wanted to do it, white Water is still had success and there's there sometimes you know too much about some things that you want to just change. And then there's but there's things that you got to keep in respect tradition, There's there's some uniqueness. So so finding the blend of all of that was probably difficult. You know, you don't have a full staff of full time people. You don't have you know, embracing how to do that, how to how to put a staff together. Not everybody elected to stay all those things, so there's a it was a whirlwind there of a of of some things in that very first year, and then they had played at at a high level. They're the two previous years. Still, it was it was taking over something with high expectations as well.

When you finished under and you finished underfeated a couple of years, what are those seasons like? Because it's such a different experience than, for example, when you take over Buffalo, where you take over ku where. And this has probably been the hardest part for me. Obviously we went on a terrible losing streak, right, But you know, when you're when the expectations are to win and now you're like winning every game, you know, winning every game? What is that like from a coaching perspective in terms of managing I don't I would say like coaching anxiety because you now you're everything. You're running right, what's that? What's that like?

When you finished under and you finished underfeated a couple of years, what are those seasons like? Because it's such a different experience than, for example, when you take over Buffalo, where you take over ku where. And this has probably been the hardest part for me. Obviously we went on a terrible losing streak, right, But you know, when you're when the expectations are to win and now you're like winning every game, you know, winning every game? What is that like from a coaching perspective in terms of managing I don't I would say like coaching anxiety because you now you're everything. You're running right, what's that? What's that like?

Yeah, that's a great question and probably one I don't get asked very often. But you're right because you know the anxiety, and you know anxiety could be you know, sometimes it's self induced pressure because you feel it mounting and the games you should win versus the ones that you know are going to be dogfights. All those different things of not letting it down, not letting it slip away. But you've got to find the balance of you can you can't keep everybody locked in twenty four set, you know, and be so tight that you don't play your best. And I do think it's you've got to stick to your routines. You've got to go through your process. You've got to keep your group competing. You've got to find ways to balance practice. And you know, the thing that I probably had to learn along the way is it's okay to be confident and talk about expecting to win and going out and playing with a confidence and swagger, but yet keep them hungry at the same time. And that was probably the balances of you know, we went I think, you know, we won like forty six games in a row and it was like the fis longest win streak. And you're like, and I'll never forget. Like when we lost, my son was our son was really young, and he cried more than any any player because he hadn't seen us lose. And I'm like, you know, son, you got to accept losing sometimes too, you know. But it's it's a different type of anxiety of going through it. But I think when when when you have a good staff, and they're you're making sure that within your staff meetings that you're checking the boxes, we're covering the details, we're practicing at a level of expectation that we're going to win games, and uh, you know, we go through it in such a way.

Yeah, that's a great question and probably one I don't get asked very often. But you're right because you know the anxiety, and you know anxiety could be you know, sometimes it's self induced pressure because you feel it mounting and the games you should win versus the ones that you know are going to be dogfights. All those different things of not letting it down, not letting it slip away. But you've got to find the balance of you can you can't keep everybody locked in twenty four set, you know, and be so tight that you don't play your best. And I do think it's you've got to stick to your routines. You've got to go through your process. You've got to keep your group competing. You've got to find ways to balance practice. And you know, the thing that I probably had to learn along the way is it's okay to be confident and talk about expecting to win and going out and playing with a confidence and swagger, but yet keep them hungry at the same time. And that was probably the balances of you know, we went I think, you know, we won like forty six games in a row and it was like the fis longest win streak. And you're like, and I'll never forget. Like when we lost, my son was our son was really young, and he cried more than any any player because he hadn't seen us lose. And I'm like, you know, son, you got to accept losing sometimes too, you know. But it's it's a different type of anxiety of going through it. But I think when when when you have a good staff, and they're you're making sure that within your staff meetings that you're checking the boxes, we're covering the details, we're practicing at a level of expectation that we're going to win games, and uh, you know, we go through it in such a way.

Okay, whileave it's your own manor you can put up ten eleven wins a year, you have, you have one year we lost three games at one right the rest it's you know, forty six game wins streak, no losses, like it's your You're from Wisconsin, You're a legend, you know, Wisconsin Hall of Fame for everything. Why do you even take a Buffalo job?

Okay, whileave it's your own manor you can put up ten eleven wins a year, you have, you have one year we lost three games at one right the rest it's you know, forty six game wins streak, no losses, like it's your You're from Wisconsin, You're a legend, you know, Wisconsin Hall of Fame for everything. Why do you even take a Buffalo job?

Multiple reasons. One is you almost what you pretty much asked. I remember somebody sent me a clip of an article that when we were seven and three. It said Whitewater coming off a disastrous seven and three season. And I think, and I think, as you said that that anxiety and that presser, I didn't I don't think I was enjoying it as much as I probably should have or should have at that time. And I also looked at my career. Of the one we really didn't touch on is when I went to Nebraska, Omaha. We took over a very similar down program that had really struggled, and we we went one in ten, three and eight and ten and two. Wow. And I really found that just like a little bit of that time at going into Wisconsin and doing those things, I really found that Doug to be and and I think you'll you'll you're gonna feel the same way when when when things turned for you and your program is that is very gratifying.

Multiple reasons. One is you almost what you pretty much asked. I remember somebody sent me a clip of an article that when we were seven and three. It said Whitewater coming off a disastrous seven and three season. And I think, and I think, as you said that that anxiety and that presser, I didn't I don't think I was enjoying it as much as I probably should have or should have at that time. And I also looked at my career. Of the one we really didn't touch on is when I went to Nebraska, Omaha. We took over a very similar down program that had really struggled, and we we went one in ten, three and eight and ten and two. Wow. And I really found that just like a little bit of that time at going into Wisconsin and doing those things, I really found that Doug to be and and I think you'll you'll you're gonna feel the same way when when when things turned for you and your program is that is very gratifying.

That is Oh, it's it's amazing you bring that up because it's I actually said this to Jordan McKay's my assistant. He's from Kacana, And I remember our first game we actually end up winning the game, and I said, hey, we're you know, they go through intros. It takes forever. And I just said, hey, I want you to look at the stands now and then remember this conversation in a couple of years. And yeah, and and you know, like our program, like any program, every kid's not gonna be back, even the ones with eligibility. But to the ones who are, like, I'm so excited for them to have been through this because and I'm and I wonder if you feel this way, like, look we're we I had four freshmen and a sophomore out there against Youngstown and we nearly won the game last week, right, And and I know that I've I had a lot to learn, never having been a college coach previously, but trying to take this on with this amount of youth, being this experienced my staffs relatively in experience, I've had to learn.

That is Oh, it's it's amazing you bring that up because it's I actually said this to Jordan McKay's my assistant. He's from Kacana, And I remember our first game we actually end up winning the game, and I said, hey, we're you know, they go through intros. It takes forever. And I just said, hey, I want you to look at the stands now and then remember this conversation in a couple of years. And yeah, and and you know, like our program, like any program, every kid's not gonna be back, even the ones with eligibility. But to the ones who are, like, I'm so excited for them to have been through this because and I'm and I wonder if you feel this way, like, look we're we I had four freshmen and a sophomore out there against Youngstown and we nearly won the game last week, right, And and I know that I've I had a lot to learn, never having been a college coach previously, but trying to take this on with this amount of youth, being this experienced my staffs relatively in experience, I've had to learn.

To be an.

To be an.

Exemplary coach just to be competitive. Right when you call a time out in terms of manipulating it so we get the double timeouts we wanted to be more like eight thirty or more. So then one more dead ball, we get another time out, give our team more rest. You know how we foul intentionally to get to the TV timeouts. We try every little analytic trick we can, because you know, we're we had to move some big things, but now we're to try we got to win on some of the margins. I would guess that your experience at Omaha and which helped you at Buffalo, is you become so much better a coach. And yes, I do think that there's that false hope of show up, win a bunch of games, and know that to build it and build sustainable you kind of got to go through the other stuff first, right, and you're one.

Exemplary coach just to be competitive. Right when you call a time out in terms of manipulating it so we get the double timeouts we wanted to be more like eight thirty or more. So then one more dead ball, we get another time out, give our team more rest. You know how we foul intentionally to get to the TV timeouts. We try every little analytic trick we can, because you know, we're we had to move some big things, but now we're to try we got to win on some of the margins. I would guess that your experience at Omaha and which helped you at Buffalo, is you become so much better a coach. And yes, I do think that there's that false hope of show up, win a bunch of games, and know that to build it and build sustainable you kind of got to go through the other stuff first, right, and you're one.

Hundred percent right on that stuff, and when you do, it's very gratifying. And like I said, I could have stayed, as you alluded to it. You know, when I interviewed for the job, there was a concern I would leave. I said my goal there was there were two coaches in over fifty years. I said, my goal was that there'd be three coaches in seventy five years. I really thought, I really thought I was going there to stay. But then there was something always kind of you know, in the back of my mind about taking something that's down and building it up and something that And after that seven and three season, I really thought that maybe expectations at Whitewater were going to get to more of a realistic type level, and that you know, we could win the league maybe once out every three years, maybe take second another year, make the playoffs two out of three years, and I think that would be you know, running a good program. And then we went undefeated right away the next season, and it was like right back to these undefeated expectations. So it was different and and and then out of the clear blue it was it was in October when when Buffalo Danny White, now the athletic director at Tennessee was was the athletic director at Buffalo, and he let go of the coach at early in October, and they reached out in late October about interest, and it was and to me, it was like from going from Division three to the MAC is pretty unheard of, and it was going to be an opportunity probably too good to pass up, you know, in career wise for my family and a lot of different things. So you know, we we we kept going in that route.