Why do people commit white-collar crimes? And how has the way we think about — and prosecute — white-collar criminals changed over time? As part of the background research for his next book, which is about Sam Bankman-Fried and FTX, Michael Lewis wants the historical view of financial fraudsters, embezzlers and Ponzi schemers. So he speaks with Eugene Soltes, professor at the Harvard Business School and author of Why They Do It: Inside the Mind of the White-Collar Criminal.

If you have a question for Michael Lewis about his writing process, head to atrpodcast.com.