Pushkin, we're back bringing this thing in for a landing. I think we can now all agree. It's not just the law that changed when the US allowed states to legalize sports gambling back in twenty eighteen. An entire region of the American brain has been wipe clean and replaced with new software. Somehow, sports gambling went from this slightly naughty activity you had to go out of your way to engage in to smack dab in the center of American culture. It's very obviously overrun American colleges. It's less obviously overrun American high schools too.

Pushkin, we're back bringing this thing in for a landing. I think we can now all agree. It's not just the law that changed when the US allowed states to legalize sports gambling back in twenty eighteen. An entire region of the American brain has been wipe clean and replaced with new software. Somehow, sports gambling went from this slightly naughty activity you had to go out of your way to engage in to smack dab in the center of American culture. It's very obviously overrun American colleges. It's less obviously overrun American high schools too.

What happened to one of my friends was that one of his friends tried to abandon this bookie, and then he sent him his house addressed oh my God, which she had never given to him. He distracked his ipea address from how he's placing bets.

What happened to one of my friends was that one of his friends tried to abandon this bookie, and then he sent him his house addressed oh my God, which she had never given to him. He distracked his ipea address from how he's placing bets.

That's Andrew Mitchell, now at College Junior, but remembering his high school gambling ring and a bookie on Snapchat named Foco. He's talking to LJ, my producer, who ran down so many similar stories from boys all over the country that she no longer asked them whether their high school has a sports gambling ring. Instead, she asked them who runs it? Andrew she found in upstate New York.

That's Andrew Mitchell, now at College Junior, but remembering his high school gambling ring and a bookie on Snapchat named Foco. He's talking to LJ, my producer, who ran down so many similar stories from boys all over the country that she no longer asked them whether their high school has a sports gambling ring. Instead, she asked them who runs it? Andrew she found in upstate New York.

So there's kind of this informal insurance that it's really just a threat to kids that I don't know how much you can do with the house address or what the stakes actually would have been, but it's a pretty scary thing when you're already doing something you know is illegal and then you sent your address after you try to pull a fast.

So there's kind of this informal insurance that it's really just a threat to kids that I don't know how much you can do with the house address or what the stakes actually would have been, but it's a pretty scary thing when you're already doing something you know is illegal and then you sent your address after you try to pull a fast.

One on someone.

One on someone.

My high school is just like one part of it. I know in the public schools in our area there were huge betting rings for kids were losing so much money and betting so much money.

My high school is just like one part of it. I know in the public schools in our area there were huge betting rings for kids were losing so much money and betting so much money.

It occurred to me that Andrew's old problem is my new one. I have a seventeen year old son. His name is Walker. At some point i'd need to have the talk with him. Now, I say this as someone who is not a big fan of having the talk. I didn't really want to have the talk with him about sex back in the day, but that was all right because in middle school he had an entire class on the subject that went into such graphic detail. I had to keep my eyes covered with a pillow. I did say something to him, like anything you want to know about sex, just ask me. Of course he never did. He's way too smart. The gambling talk is different than the sex talk, and maybe more necessary because his school doesn't have a class called sports gambling education. Plus there's no generally accepted body of knowledge on the subject. So I wasn't even clear in my own head what this talk should consist of. I mean, apart from telling him how dumb it is to hand your lunch money to DraftKings, that would only make him want to do it more. Even if somehow I knew exactly the right thing to say to inoculate my child against this new threat to his well being, or at least prevent him from being kneecapped by some bookie, he'd be unlikely to listen. In my experience, if you want your seventeen year old to listen to you, you have to say something that could be used against you in the court of law. Then they hear every word you say and record it for future use by the prosecution. And so while I saw that I needed to have the talk, I also realized that the talk was pointless. Walker was already too old, too dismissive of me. I had to find some other way to teach my son the tools he needs to navigate a world in which sophisticated corporations will try to lead him to his ruin. Anyway, that's my excuse for why I did what I did.

It occurred to me that Andrew's old problem is my new one. I have a seventeen year old son. His name is Walker. At some point i'd need to have the talk with him. Now, I say this as someone who is not a big fan of having the talk. I didn't really want to have the talk with him about sex back in the day, but that was all right because in middle school he had an entire class on the subject that went into such graphic detail. I had to keep my eyes covered with a pillow. I did say something to him, like anything you want to know about sex, just ask me. Of course he never did. He's way too smart. The gambling talk is different than the sex talk, and maybe more necessary because his school doesn't have a class called sports gambling education. Plus there's no generally accepted body of knowledge on the subject. So I wasn't even clear in my own head what this talk should consist of. I mean, apart from telling him how dumb it is to hand your lunch money to DraftKings, that would only make him want to do it more. Even if somehow I knew exactly the right thing to say to inoculate my child against this new threat to his well being, or at least prevent him from being kneecapped by some bookie, he'd be unlikely to listen. In my experience, if you want your seventeen year old to listen to you, you have to say something that could be used against you in the court of law. Then they hear every word you say and record it for future use by the prosecution. And so while I saw that I needed to have the talk, I also realized that the talk was pointless. Walker was already too old, too dismissive of me. I had to find some other way to teach my son the tools he needs to navigate a world in which sophisticated corporations will try to lead him to his ruin. Anyway, that's my excuse for why I did what I did.

Next, Okay, let me give you guys the assignment formally, which is that Michael's going to give you, guys five thousand dollars and you can spend it however you want on sports betting. But you're supposed to win, like you're supposed to make more.

Next, Okay, let me give you guys the assignment formally, which is that Michael's going to give you, guys five thousand dollars and you can spend it however you want on sports betting. But you're supposed to win, like you're supposed to make more.

That's always a goal, right.

That's always a goal, right.

Yes, that's Walker, who, by the way, in his English class the other day, asks the twenty five other kids for a show of hands, who here is a sports gambler. All the boys except one those zero of the girls raise their hands, even though all of them were under the age of eighteen and sports gambling is still illegal in California. Anyway, I love him, even if he doesn't listen to me. His immune system is like the immune system of all teenage boys. What I want to create in him I think of as a vaccine. I'm going to hand him a sum of money that'll get his attention for him to use to bet on sports. He can keep the winnings, but there won't be any winnings, of course, just humiliation. The humiliation will create the antibodies. I won't be directly involved. If I were, he wouldn't be as interested. My producers will supervise his education and record it.

Yes, that's Walker, who, by the way, in his English class the other day, asks the twenty five other kids for a show of hands, who here is a sports gambler. All the boys except one those zero of the girls raise their hands, even though all of them were under the age of eighteen and sports gambling is still illegal in California. Anyway, I love him, even if he doesn't listen to me. His immune system is like the immune system of all teenage boys. What I want to create in him I think of as a vaccine. I'm going to hand him a sum of money that'll get his attention for him to use to bet on sports. He can keep the winnings, but there won't be any winnings, of course, just humiliation. The humiliation will create the antibodies. I won't be directly involved. If I were, he wouldn't be as interested. My producers will supervise his education and record it.

When should you start?

When should you start?

I'm ready to go right now.

I'm ready to go right now.

I think you're supposed to have like a learning period.

I think you're supposed to have like a learning period.

It's like, Michael is.

It's like, Michael is.

Interesting those actual skill to it?

Interesting those actual skill to it?

Are you asking that?

Are you asking that?

I guess I was walking into this hope and it was just like, I don't know. I'm walking into this hoping to learn, but I just I doubt. I mean, you see people winning, but like, I don't know.

I guess I was walking into this hope and it was just like, I don't know. I'm walking into this hoping to learn, but I just I doubt. I mean, you see people winning, but like, I don't know.

That's the wrong attitude.

That's the wrong attitude.

And that's Tom, not his real name. We've also disguised his voice because well, I don't want to get Tom into any trouble. He's a good kid, three years older than Walker and now a student at a very fancy college. But he and Walker used to play basketball together and Walker really likes him. I roped Tom into this experiment mainly because he'd been gambling on sports since he was in high school, and I thought whatever he's learned might rub off on Walker. But as it turns, out. The main thing that Tom learned was how to evade the laws that forbid children from gambling on sports.

And that's Tom, not his real name. We've also disguised his voice because well, I don't want to get Tom into any trouble. He's a good kid, three years older than Walker and now a student at a very fancy college. But he and Walker used to play basketball together and Walker really likes him. I roped Tom into this experiment mainly because he'd been gambling on sports since he was in high school, and I thought whatever he's learned might rub off on Walker. But as it turns, out. The main thing that Tom learned was how to evade the laws that forbid children from gambling on sports.

There's an Alpha Fliff and I don't know exactly what the rules are around it, but I know that legally, on that app I can use it because I had to submit that I picture of my driver's license and then and I guess had to say that I was from California.

There's an Alpha Fliff and I don't know exactly what the rules are around it, but I know that legally, on that app I can use it because I had to submit that I picture of my driver's license and then and I guess had to say that I was from California.

Yes, if you're a teenager who wants to lay down five grand of your dad's money on sports, you don't even need an illegal bookie anymore. You might not be able to get an account with DraftKings or fan Duel, but you can get onto any one of a number of shady gray market apps. Fliff turns your money into fliff cash, and gambling with Fliff cash somehow makes it all legal. But since you can turn your fliff cash back into dollars, it's hard to see why cool.

Yes, if you're a teenager who wants to lay down five grand of your dad's money on sports, you don't even need an illegal bookie anymore. You might not be able to get an account with DraftKings or fan Duel, but you can get onto any one of a number of shady gray market apps. Fliff turns your money into fliff cash, and gambling with Fliff cash somehow makes it all legal. But since you can turn your fliff cash back into dollars, it's hard to see why cool.

And I asked you this before, kind of like, well, like how you thought you were going to do.

And I asked you this before, kind of like, well, like how you thought you were going to do.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I hope to like plus five ten percent. I don't know. I guess I'll send an expectation of plus is Isa Golbank plus.

I hope to like plus five ten percent. I don't know. I guess I'll send an expectation of plus is Isa Golbank plus.

Two hundred percent plus two hundred percent.

Two hundred percent plus two hundred percent.

Yeah, that's the most.

Yeah, that's the most.

Again, their goal is to turn five grand into fifteen. My goal is for them to learn the insanity of their goal. I think my goal is admirable, but I do have a sense that not everyone in my house agrees confirmed when my producer, Catherine Gerardeau investigates.

Again, their goal is to turn five grand into fifteen. My goal is for them to learn the insanity of their goal. I think my goal is admirable, but I do have a sense that not everyone in my house agrees confirmed when my producer, Catherine Gerardeau investigates.

So I understand Michael has been encouraging Walker to engage in sports betting, and I wanted to talk to you about how you feel about that.

So I understand Michael has been encouraging Walker to engage in sports betting, and I wanted to talk to you about how you feel about that.

The idea is that Walker will be exposed to sports betting and get guided through the process so he understands the winds as well as the losses, since that probably happens more often than not.

The idea is that Walker will be exposed to sports betting and get guided through the process so he understands the winds as well as the losses, since that probably happens more often than not.

That's Walker's mother, my wife, Kabitha.

That's Walker's mother, my wife, Kabitha.

And it's supposed to be a learning experience. That's that's the glasses half version. And what's your perspective on that. I'm not an expert in all teenage boys, but from the anecdotal information I have from other mothers with teenage boys, I think that the attraction and the addiction to the dopamine response that you get from video games is complete parallel to the addiction response to sports betting.

And it's supposed to be a learning experience. That's that's the glasses half version. And what's your perspective on that. I'm not an expert in all teenage boys, but from the anecdotal information I have from other mothers with teenage boys, I think that the attraction and the addiction to the dopamine response that you get from video games is complete parallel to the addiction response to sports betting.

So to me, that is not a good thing to encourage.

So to me, that is not a good thing to encourage.

I hope that he walks away from it feeling like it's not something he wants to partake in.

I hope that he walks away from it feeling like it's not something he wants to partake in.

But I can't control that.

But I can't control that.

He's almost eighteen and he doesn't listen to a word I say.

He's almost eighteen and he doesn't listen to a word I say.

When our son won't listen to my wife, she often turns to me and says, can you please talk to him, as if his unwillingness to listen to her somehow imply as a desire to listen to me. As I say, it doesn't. My son won't listen to me either, but maybe you will. Since I'm Michael Lewis and this is against the rules, So I've set my child loose in the sports gambling markets with five thousand dollars. I've told him that I'm leaving him to figure it out for himself, but that if he wants help, I know some experts he can call. Because here's another funny thing about trying to teach your seventeen year old son anything. He might not listen to a word you say, but so long as you are nowhere in sight, he will listen to your friends. I don't know why this is, but it's true. I gave Walker our phone number for Rufus Peabody. Rufus is the pro sports gambler who starred in some of our earlier episodes. What makes Rufus great as a teacher of child gamblers is that, even though he's made millions gambling on sports, he doesn't think gambling on sports is a noble way to spend your life life. What makes rufe Is less great as a teacher of child gamblers is that he's worried about breaking the law sports.

When our son won't listen to my wife, she often turns to me and says, can you please talk to him, as if his unwillingness to listen to her somehow imply as a desire to listen to me. As I say, it doesn't. My son won't listen to me either, but maybe you will. Since I'm Michael Lewis and this is against the rules, So I've set my child loose in the sports gambling markets with five thousand dollars. I've told him that I'm leaving him to figure it out for himself, but that if he wants help, I know some experts he can call. Because here's another funny thing about trying to teach your seventeen year old son anything. He might not listen to a word you say, but so long as you are nowhere in sight, he will listen to your friends. I don't know why this is, but it's true. I gave Walker our phone number for Rufus Peabody. Rufus is the pro sports gambler who starred in some of our earlier episodes. What makes Rufus great as a teacher of child gamblers is that, even though he's made millions gambling on sports, he doesn't think gambling on sports is a noble way to spend your life life. What makes rufe Is less great as a teacher of child gamblers is that he's worried about breaking the law sports.

Betting is I leave you in California?

Betting is I leave you in California?

How the fuck am I using Cliff then?

How the fuck am I using Cliff then?

Because Fliff isn't sports betting, that's what they claim. It's the sweepstakes. Oh my god, I know it's yeah.

Because Fliff isn't sports betting, that's what they claim. It's the sweepstakes. Oh my god, I know it's yeah.

And kids are allowed to do it or whatever. Why is there so much?

And kids are allowed to do it or whatever. Why is there so much?

Why?

Why?

Why was I allowed to put my own money from my bank account in the app?

Why was I allowed to put my own money from my bank account in the app?

Because you don't have to be what You don't have to be twenty one, you only have to be eighteen.

Because you don't have to be what You don't have to be twenty one, you only have to be eighteen.

I'm seventy.

I'm seventy.

Yes, great, really, yeah, that's that's fucked up.

Yes, great, really, yeah, that's that's fucked up.

That's yeah.

That's yeah.

But didn't you need to put your social security in Walker?

But didn't you need to put your social security in Walker?

Your social Security number? I don't even know it. I don't know my social Security number.

Your social Security number? I don't even know it. I don't know my social Security number.

It was.

It was.

At that point, you can almost hear Rufus make one of his expected value calculations. He's working out that the expected value of taking a minor on a sports gambling journey in a state where sports gambling is illegal is negative.

At that point, you can almost hear Rufus make one of his expected value calculations. He's working out that the expected value of taking a minor on a sports gambling journey in a state where sports gambling is illegal is negative.

I'll connect you with Captain Jack. Have you talked to him in the pastor now?

I'll connect you with Captain Jack. Have you talked to him in the pastor now?

No, I don't know him.

No, I don't know him.

I think this is right in his wheelhouse.

I think this is right in his wheelhouse.

And with that, Rufus passed Walker and Tom off to another sports gambler, someone called Captain Jack.

And with that, Rufus passed Walker and Tom off to another sports gambler, someone called Captain Jack.

So I mean, off the bat, I'll let you guys know that like ninety eight percent of sports betters don't make money in the long.

So I mean, off the bat, I'll let you guys know that like ninety eight percent of sports betters don't make money in the long.

Run, and that's Captain Jack.

Run, and that's Captain Jack.

It's very easy to go on like Twitter x and find somebody that says they are winning eighty percent of the time, and you go, okay, I'll just follow this guy. Most of those people aren't. In fact, I would say all of those people aren't winning eighty percent of the time because truth of the matter is, it's very tough to win fifty five percent of the time, and fifty five percent isn't sexy, So they're not trying to sell you fifty five percent. They try to sell you some unattainable number.

It's very easy to go on like Twitter x and find somebody that says they are winning eighty percent of the time, and you go, okay, I'll just follow this guy. Most of those people aren't. In fact, I would say all of those people aren't winning eighty percent of the time because truth of the matter is, it's very tough to win fifty five percent of the time, and fifty five percent isn't sexy, So they're not trying to sell you fifty five percent. They try to sell you some unattainable number.

Captain Jack tells them some stuff that listeners to this season already know why. In order to make money gambling on sports you need to make it even more miserable than an ordinary job. How the professional gambler needs to constantly scour all the world's sports books in search of odds that are out of whack. Captain Jack was inadvertly raising some obvious questions for the teenage sports gambler.

Captain Jack tells them some stuff that listeners to this season already know why. In order to make money gambling on sports you need to make it even more miserable than an ordinary job. How the professional gambler needs to constantly scour all the world's sports books in search of odds that are out of whack. Captain Jack was inadvertly raising some obvious questions for the teenage sports gambler.

Is it possible to make money just off of one site like Fliff?

Is it possible to make money just off of one site like Fliff?

With Fliff?

With Fliff?

It's possible because Fliff isn't the sharpest sports book in the world. You can find edges at Fliff.

It's possible because Fliff isn't the sharpest sports book in the world. You can find edges at Fliff.

Just for us, Like, how do you recommend us trying to find these edges? How do you recommend us we're looking for these?

Just for us, Like, how do you recommend us trying to find these edges? How do you recommend us we're looking for these?

There are situations that it's called arbitrage where you're guaranteed to win.

There are situations that it's called arbitrage where you're guaranteed to win.

Captain Jack explains that you can win systematically at sports gambling only by having either better information or better ways to analyze the information. But there is one exception. If you can find different prices for exactly the same bet at different sports bookies, then buy the low one and sell the high one.

Captain Jack explains that you can win systematically at sports gambling only by having either better information or better ways to analyze the information. But there is one exception. If you can find different prices for exactly the same bet at different sports bookies, then buy the low one and sell the high one.

But you guys only have one out. You guys only have fliff, So you're not going to find a situation where you can bet both sides of the game at fliff.

But you guys only have one out. You guys only have fliff, So you're not going to find a situation where you can bet both sides of the game at fliff.

Do you maybe I feel like, well, I feel like it'd be possible for us to, like, I don't know, use someone who is out of state or not even out of state, but just like says they're out of state and it's above the age of twenty one to like get onto all these.

Do you maybe I feel like, well, I feel like it'd be possible for us to, like, I don't know, use someone who is out of state or not even out of state, but just like says they're out of state and it's above the age of twenty one to like get onto all these.

So most of these are regulated books in other states, and they all use geolocation software that make sure you are geographically in the state that you say you are, so it's tough to fool them.

So most of these are regulated books in other states, and they all use geolocation software that make sure you are geographically in the state that you say you are, so it's tough to fool them.

Can you just use a VPN?

Can you just use a VPN?

No, these use basically like location services on your phone, which actually knows where you are really for a site like fandol or DraftKings or Caesar's at MGM ESPN bet. They definitely put a lot of attention into geolocation because they would be a violating the Federal Wire Act to allow people to bet across the state line, so they take it pretty seriously.

No, these use basically like location services on your phone, which actually knows where you are really for a site like fandol or DraftKings or Caesar's at MGM ESPN bet. They definitely put a lot of attention into geolocation because they would be a violating the Federal Wire Act to allow people to bet across the state line, so they take it pretty seriously.

Ish, I sense we're a little fucked.

Ish, I sense we're a little fucked.

I sense we're a little fucked. That's my child doing me proud. Seeing the world as it is rather than how he would like it to be.

I sense we're a little fucked. That's my child doing me proud. Seeing the world as it is rather than how he would like it to be.

One word of advice is you probably do not want to create a audible record of you guys violating federal law.

One word of advice is you probably do not want to create a audible record of you guys violating federal law.

Yeah, I still have to get into college, don't It's not worth it.

Yeah, I still have to get into college, don't It's not worth it.

They're not going to violate the Federal Wire Act. They'll just use Fliff and then do what the vast majority of other sports gamblers do, which means that every bet they make will be less likely to win than to lose. For this reason, Captain Jack thinks they should just make one giant bet and be done with it. Put the entire wad of my five thousand dollars on a single game or even a single player, and live with the results. Maybe they'll get lucky. But before he waives them goodbye, Captain does offer one tiny glimmer of hope.

They're not going to violate the Federal Wire Act. They'll just use Fliff and then do what the vast majority of other sports gamblers do, which means that every bet they make will be less likely to win than to lose. For this reason, Captain Jack thinks they should just make one giant bet and be done with it. Put the entire wad of my five thousand dollars on a single game or even a single player, and live with the results. Maybe they'll get lucky. But before he waives them goodbye, Captain does offer one tiny glimmer of hope.

Different types of sports betting are easier to beat than other types of sports betting. So if you were to go onto the Fliff app and you were to pull up a baseball game for tonight, you could bet on which team will win. You could bet on how much they'll win by, you could bet on the total runs scored in the game. But then you can also bet on player performance in the game, how many strikeouts the pitcher will have, how many hits a certain player will have, will this player hit a home run or not. Those are called prop bets, and those prop bets are far easier to beat than how many total runs are going to be scored or which team is going to win. So for you guys, I would focus on those prop bets player performance. It's also more fun.

Different types of sports betting are easier to beat than other types of sports betting. So if you were to go onto the Fliff app and you were to pull up a baseball game for tonight, you could bet on which team will win. You could bet on how much they'll win by, you could bet on the total runs scored in the game. But then you can also bet on player performance in the game, how many strikeouts the pitcher will have, how many hits a certain player will have, will this player hit a home run or not. Those are called prop bets, and those prop bets are far easier to beat than how many total runs are going to be scored or which team is going to win. So for you guys, I would focus on those prop bets player performance. It's also more fun.

Are there greater than prop bets, like getting into an exact probit, Like having like Kitlyn Clark score like eight threes in the game. Seems pretty exact, Is there like four more?

Are there greater than prop bets, like getting into an exact probit, Like having like Kitlyn Clark score like eight threes in the game. Seems pretty exact, Is there like four more?

Exactly?

Exactly?

They're usually Katelyn Clark over under two and a half three pointers in the game. Yeah, it's over unders. In fact, the exact ones are very hard to hit. That was a good good example Walker. The average sports better loves to see things happen, Okay, so they tend to bet overs. So there's usually a little more value in the under than the over. But in your brain you're always going to be wired because you want to see things happen. Nobody likes to root for an under. They don't like to root for like no, no, no, don't get a hit. No, no, no, don't get a strikeout. They tend to like to see things happen, So try to find value in some unders.

They're usually Katelyn Clark over under two and a half three pointers in the game. Yeah, it's over unders. In fact, the exact ones are very hard to hit. That was a good good example Walker. The average sports better loves to see things happen, Okay, so they tend to bet overs. So there's usually a little more value in the under than the over. But in your brain you're always going to be wired because you want to see things happen. Nobody likes to root for an under. They don't like to root for like no, no, no, don't get a hit. No, no, no, don't get a strikeout. They tend to like to see things happen, So try to find value in some unders.

Find value in the unders. That's it. That's all they got that in five bands.

Find value in the unders. That's it. That's all they got that in five bands.

I'm kind of annoyed that we're in California because now we really can't game the system.

I'm kind of annoyed that we're in California because now we really can't game the system.

I don't know. I guess what I was saying was like, oh, when you said like the five thousand dollars and like one the it's like going for it. But then he was also like, you can't do that with Flip because you only bet like two or two or fifty folks at once.

I don't know. I guess what I was saying was like, oh, when you said like the five thousand dollars and like one the it's like going for it. But then he was also like, you can't do that with Flip because you only bet like two or two or fifty folks at once.

And then if we win, we're like double is cool, right, we can claim its skill as well.

And then if we win, we're like double is cool, right, we can claim its skill as well.

Yeah, and then we can start our own masterclass.

Yeah, and then we can start our own masterclass.

People will come to us a master class for teenage sports gamblers. You don't have to have the talk. You can just PLoP your kid down in front of a master class. Now that's an idea. Your teenager might not listen to you any more than mine listens to me. But if they were to stumble online across a master class or a podcast very like this one, who knows, maybe they learned something maybe it would save them, But what would you want your child to know.

People will come to us a master class for teenage sports gamblers. You don't have to have the talk. You can just PLoP your kid down in front of a master class. Now that's an idea. Your teenager might not listen to you any more than mine listens to me. But if they were to stumble online across a master class or a podcast very like this one, who knows, maybe they learned something maybe it would save them, But what would you want your child to know.

I think a lot of people look at sports betting as you're betting into a machine. You're betting into the computer. The computers on the others. You know that that the software, the sports beans software, is on the other side of the bet, right, But the any any gambling, any bet takes two sides, and somebody's on one side of the bet and somebody else or some entities on the other side of the bet.

I think a lot of people look at sports betting as you're betting into a machine. You're betting into the computer. The computers on the others. You know that that the software, the sports beans software, is on the other side of the bet, right, But the any any gambling, any bet takes two sides, and somebody's on one side of the bet and somebody else or some entities on the other side of the bet.

In my own masterclass on teenage sports gambling, this guy would be front and center. His name is Matt Davidoo. He's a professional sports gambler who co wrote what amounts to the industry's founding text, The Logic of Sports Betting. Captain Jack actually recommended it to Walker and Tom, but I don't think they read it. They were too busy betting the unders.

In my own masterclass on teenage sports gambling, this guy would be front and center. His name is Matt Davidoo. He's a professional sports gambler who co wrote what amounts to the industry's founding text, The Logic of Sports Betting. Captain Jack actually recommended it to Walker and Tom, but I don't think they read it. They were too busy betting the unders.

The reality is that's somebody, whether it's a trader who's ego or job or bonuses on the line, or an actual person with their own money, is you know, like that's who you're you're you're playing against them. You need to be better than the other player. It's the same as poker. It's the same as those the financial markets.

The reality is that's somebody, whether it's a trader who's ego or job or bonuses on the line, or an actual person with their own money, is you know, like that's who you're you're you're playing against them. You need to be better than the other player. It's the same as poker. It's the same as those the financial markets.

And these other players often know things that you don't.

And these other players often know things that you don't.

Not correct.

Not correct.

That's d Miller, Matt's co author, who oddly went to the same high school I went to in New Orleans.

That's d Miller, Matt's co author, who oddly went to the same high school I went to in New Orleans.

Here are the two things I think ar true about sports fanning.

Here are the two things I think ar true about sports fanning.

One is that there are people who are trying to win, and they have different.

One is that there are people who are trying to win, and they have different.

Ways of winning.

Ways of winning.

They have something going on when they put a bet down there.

They have something going on when they put a bet down there.

Yeah, so there's a lot of information in the prices. Yes, and the prices are dynamic.

Yeah, so there's a lot of information in the prices. Yes, and the prices are dynamic.

Correct.

Correct.

Here's the first masterclass tip, and it sounds deceptively simple. Anytime anyone offers you a bet, or a trade, or an item for sale, or even a night of passion, they have some reason for offering it, and you may be wholly unaware of whatever they know that you do not. The fancy name for this is adverse selection. A market price, like the odds on a football game, isn't some random thing. It's the result of lots of people who know lots of stuff you don't know, offering other people the chance to make a bet. You might think you know more than the market, but you better ask yourself what you know that the market doesn't Because the market knows a huge amount. But and there is another But the market is not an omniscient god. It never knows everything.

Here's the first masterclass tip, and it sounds deceptively simple. Anytime anyone offers you a bet, or a trade, or an item for sale, or even a night of passion, they have some reason for offering it, and you may be wholly unaware of whatever they know that you do not. The fancy name for this is adverse selection. A market price, like the odds on a football game, isn't some random thing. It's the result of lots of people who know lots of stuff you don't know, offering other people the chance to make a bet. You might think you know more than the market, but you better ask yourself what you know that the market doesn't Because the market knows a huge amount. But and there is another But the market is not an omniscient god. It never knows everything.

Nobody could ever really figure out the true odds because there's at the end of the day an all Blomde ball bouncing around. There's many humans who are participating, both physically and mentally. It's as opposed to say, chess or go.

Nobody could ever really figure out the true odds because there's at the end of the day an all Blomde ball bouncing around. There's many humans who are participating, both physically and mentally. It's as opposed to say, chess or go.

Sports gambling is not like chess. The real world is never that predictable. In sports gambling, just like in life, you can never know the true odds. You're always just making your best guess. The difference with sports gambling is you have this thing called the house. The bookie who sees the best price someone else will make him and then makes you an even worse one. So by far the most important skill, yeah, is meticulous price shoper.

Sports gambling is not like chess. The real world is never that predictable. In sports gambling, just like in life, you can never know the true odds. You're always just making your best guess. The difference with sports gambling is you have this thing called the house. The bookie who sees the best price someone else will make him and then makes you an even worse one. So by far the most important skill, yeah, is meticulous price shoper.

Okay, that is the most important sports panting skillful.

Okay, that is the most important sports panting skillful.

Stop by price shopping, he means finding the sports bookie who takes the smallest cut. You'll always start with the odds stacked against you. But if the bookie is only taking five percent, you'll go broke more slowly than if the bookie is taking fifteen percent. As fan duel and DraftKings do on their three legged parlays. Ed and Matt offer up a bunch of practical tips for the young sports gambler gamble on less popular sports, For instance, with fewer fans following what's going on, it's easier to find useful information than no one else knows. But before you go off and investigate the Russian rugball championships, they offer a warning, even the Russian Rugball Championships are going to be very hard to beat. Whatever you think you know about some sport is highly unlikely to give you enough of an edge against the bookie. Yet people do not get this. That's maybe what Ed and Matt find most perplexing about this boom in online sports gambling.

Stop by price shopping, he means finding the sports bookie who takes the smallest cut. You'll always start with the odds stacked against you. But if the bookie is only taking five percent, you'll go broke more slowly than if the bookie is taking fifteen percent. As fan duel and DraftKings do on their three legged parlays. Ed and Matt offer up a bunch of practical tips for the young sports gambler gamble on less popular sports, For instance, with fewer fans following what's going on, it's easier to find useful information than no one else knows. But before you go off and investigate the Russian rugball championships, they offer a warning, even the Russian Rugball Championships are going to be very hard to beat. Whatever you think you know about some sport is highly unlikely to give you enough of an edge against the bookie. Yet people do not get this. That's maybe what Ed and Matt find most perplexing about this boom in online sports gambling.

My son, he's a my eight year old who can't watch a sporting event without becoming convinced that everybody knows who's gonna win, or everybody could beat sports betting him just by picking keeps. I've been teaching him actual becambiing. I've been teaching him sports gambling. He was starting to think that he could pick the winner because look, everybody else can, right.

My son, he's a my eight year old who can't watch a sporting event without becoming convinced that everybody knows who's gonna win, or everybody could beat sports betting him just by picking keeps. I've been teaching him actual becambiing. I've been teaching him sports gambling. He was starting to think that he could pick the winner because look, everybody else can, right.

The marketing of sports gambling is teaching bad mental habits every time my own son turns on his TV or computer, some celebrities spokesman is trying to make him even less aware of his own limitations than he naturally is. He's going to learn humility the hard way by losing. I was counting on this.

The marketing of sports gambling is teaching bad mental habits every time my own son turns on his TV or computer, some celebrities spokesman is trying to make him even less aware of his own limitations than he naturally is. He's going to learn humility the hard way by losing. I was counting on this.

So now we're up one thousand dollars or more like nine hundred and seventy or something. But I think I want to bet everything I own now.

So now we're up one thousand dollars or more like nine hundred and seventy or something. But I think I want to bet everything I own now.

Producers checked in on Tom and Walker a few days into our experiment. I expected them to find chaos and contrition. Instead, they found an even bigger pile of money.

Producers checked in on Tom and Walker a few days into our experiment. I expected them to find chaos and contrition. Instead, they found an even bigger pile of money.

How does it feel to kind of start off on a wind streak and your situation now?

How does it feel to kind of start off on a wind streak and your situation now?

Like, what's going on?

Like, what's going on?

Oh yeah, so every family dinner is it's the exact same time that the US Olympics are going on. So I'll be like betting at the dinner table, or I'll put in a bet and then I'll be watching it the entire time and refreshing my feed. I got like gambling fever at the dinner table, and my sister is visibly upset, and yeah, no one likes it, and I think I think they're jealous. They're like, oh, oh, he's up like one point five k. I can't do that, you know. And my dad is like kind of uneasy because he's like he's like, oh god, this is like my fault. I've got him into this, And he's every time I make a bet or every time I talk about making a bet, he talks about how I probably should have lost basically or not that. But he's like, he's like he argues back at it. He's like, well, this is blah blah blah blah. This is wrong because blah blah blah blah blah. And I was like, dude, the only time I've been wrong was today. I made a dumb bet and I lost this one hundred dollars. But it's okay.

Oh yeah, so every family dinner is it's the exact same time that the US Olympics are going on. So I'll be like betting at the dinner table, or I'll put in a bet and then I'll be watching it the entire time and refreshing my feed. I got like gambling fever at the dinner table, and my sister is visibly upset, and yeah, no one likes it, and I think I think they're jealous. They're like, oh, oh, he's up like one point five k. I can't do that, you know. And my dad is like kind of uneasy because he's like he's like, oh god, this is like my fault. I've got him into this, And he's every time I make a bet or every time I talk about making a bet, he talks about how I probably should have lost basically or not that. But he's like, he's like he argues back at it. He's like, well, this is blah blah blah blah. This is wrong because blah blah blah blah blah. And I was like, dude, the only time I've been wrong was today. I made a dumb bet and I lost this one hundred dollars. But it's okay.

The same dud's tapping at my house. I blisal mad me and my girlfriend wasn't really mady because I've always on my phone. She made me second phon. Then come become the record.

The same dud's tapping at my house. I blisal mad me and my girlfriend wasn't really mady because I've always on my phone. She made me second phon. Then come become the record.

You'll need these days.

You'll need these days.

Sorry, you stop feeling it for all the time.

Sorry, you stop feeling it for all the time.

In any masterclass, there should be this one breakout session you discuss the effects of your sports gambling on your friends and family. If you gamble on sports, you can't do much about your odds against the bookies, but you can torpedo your odds of ever having a girlfriend. Walker and Tom already sort of know this. Every teenage boy has spent lots of his childhood on screens while surrounded by people shouting at him to get off his screens. There as prepared as two young men ever were to cope with the fallout from a life of sports gambling. Anyway, they started out on this freakish winning streak. Our whole family had gone to Paris for the Summer Olympics. Then Walker and I took a bus for three hours to lele to catch the USA basketball team playing Serbia. It was the first Olympic basketball game I'd ever seen in person, and it was fascinating. When you put a dozen superstars on one team, weird things tend to happen. But Walker barely noticed any of it because he was on his phone gambling.

In any masterclass, there should be this one breakout session you discuss the effects of your sports gambling on your friends and family. If you gamble on sports, you can't do much about your odds against the bookies, but you can torpedo your odds of ever having a girlfriend. Walker and Tom already sort of know this. Every teenage boy has spent lots of his childhood on screens while surrounded by people shouting at him to get off his screens. There as prepared as two young men ever were to cope with the fallout from a life of sports gambling. Anyway, they started out on this freakish winning streak. Our whole family had gone to Paris for the Summer Olympics. Then Walker and I took a bus for three hours to lele to catch the USA basketball team playing Serbia. It was the first Olympic basketball game I'd ever seen in person, and it was fascinating. When you put a dozen superstars on one team, weird things tend to happen. But Walker barely noticed any of it because he was on his phone gambling.

I I got the over in the under. If it's under one eighty four, I make nine hof another three Oh my god. If it's under one eighty four, I make nine hundred and fifty thousand flip coins if it's if it's if it's over, I lose eighty three thousand.

I I got the over in the under. If it's under one eighty four, I make nine hof another three Oh my god. If it's under one eighty four, I make nine hundred and fifty thousand flip coins if it's if it's if it's over, I lose eighty three thousand.

Come just said, I hope they stopped trying.

Come just said, I hope they stopped trying.

Well, there's three minutes left in USA is obviously one. There's I think for the just to preserve the players health, there's no need to continue trying.

Well, there's three minutes left in USA is obviously one. There's I think for the just to preserve the players health, there's no need to continue trying.

How do you feel about your bests? I think there were smart bets.

How do you feel about your bests? I think there were smart bets.

They were perfect bets. I'm not even worried.

They were perfect bets. I'm not even worried.

The algorithm seems smarter than you.

The algorithm seems smarter than you.

No, that's not true. I knew what I was doing.

No, that's not true. I knew what I was doing.

He could end up.

He could end up.

You could. You could actually lose both bets.

You could. You could actually lose both bets.

I could lose if I if it hits one eighty five, I lose both. That's not gonna happen, though.

I could lose if I if it hits one eighty five, I lose both. That's not gonna happen, though.

He's bet the over and the under. But as Captain Jackett told him, no one really likes to root for things not happening, and now Walker's stuck doing it.

He's bet the over and the under. But as Captain Jackett told him, no one really likes to root for things not happening, and now Walker's stuck doing it.

Oh my god, Oh my god, I swear god, anybody shoots the ball and at least my floather and oh thank god Labrone.

Oh my god, Oh my god, I swear god, anybody shoots the ball and at least my floather and oh thank god Labrone.

Were it appears his bets didn't work out.

Were it appears his bets didn't work out.

That's the sound of a sick man.

That's the sound of a sick man.

That's a sound made by a six sick man. I'd already said too much. Anything more would only make it worse.

That's a sound made by a six sick man. I'd already said too much. Anything more would only make it worse.

I'm the best, I'm the best. I'm the best fucking gamble.

I'm the best, I'm the best. I'm the best fucking gamble.

Other is if what we're talking about is sports bets made by my son. Okay, and he's made eight sports bets and five of them have come out. He's come out successful, he's won. How confident should he be that he's a really good sports better?

Other is if what we're talking about is sports bets made by my son. Okay, and he's made eight sports bets and five of them have come out. He's come out successful, he's won. How confident should he be that he's a really good sports better?

He should not be confident.

He should not be confident.

Joe Harden, statistics professor at Pomona College, a member of a growing movement in California to add stats to the high school curriculum because without a basic grasp of the subject, human beings are easy meat for many predators in modern life, including sports gambling companies.

Joe Harden, statistics professor at Pomona College, a member of a growing movement in California to add stats to the high school curriculum because without a basic grasp of the subject, human beings are easy meat for many predators in modern life, including sports gambling companies.

Five out of eight is your data value? Is your sample value?

Five out of eight is your data value? Is your sample value?

Right?

Right?

And we're trying to say, is five out of eight you know a good measure of the value that's going to be over your lifetime. So it doesn't really matter how good he is internally, he's probably not going to end up making much money.

And we're trying to say, is five out of eight you know a good measure of the value that's going to be over your lifetime. So it doesn't really matter how good he is internally, he's probably not going to end up making much money.

So what it is in the young male mind and it causes it to say, I'm three for three. Yeah, this industry might be really hard for other people, but I'm good at it. I'm not like other people. What's going on there? I mean, we're all like that, right, which is why statistics are so essential, both in gambling and in life. Stats give you the tools to reason from evidence instead of constantly spinning dubious stories to yourself, and education and statistics makes you aware that the world it's probabilistic, the total certainty is idiotic, that the most any of us will ever be is less uncertain.

So what it is in the young male mind and it causes it to say, I'm three for three. Yeah, this industry might be really hard for other people, but I'm good at it. I'm not like other people. What's going on there? I mean, we're all like that, right, which is why statistics are so essential, both in gambling and in life. Stats give you the tools to reason from evidence instead of constantly spinning dubious stories to yourself, and education and statistics makes you aware that the world it's probabilistic, the total certainty is idiotic, that the most any of us will ever be is less uncertain.

One of the other big.

One of the other big.

Things that I think is really important is sometimes it's called confusion of the inverse, and it's it's about conditional probability. So if I ask you, what is the probability that, given that you play in the NBA, what is the probability that you're six feet tall? And I don't know the actual it's like ninety five ninety six percent, right, ninety five ninety six percent of the guys who play in the NBA are at least six feet tall.

Things that I think is really important is sometimes it's called confusion of the inverse, and it's it's about conditional probability. So if I ask you, what is the probability that, given that you play in the NBA, what is the probability that you're six feet tall? And I don't know the actual it's like ninety five ninety six percent, right, ninety five ninety six percent of the guys who play in the NBA are at least six feet tall.

Yep.

Yep.

But then I turn that question around and I say, given that you are above six feet tall, what is the probability.

But then I turn that question around and I say, given that you are above six feet tall, what is the probability.

That you play in the NBA.

That you play in the NBA.

Oh, that's interesting, and.

Oh, that's interesting, and.

It's basically zero.

It's basically zero.

Right, So that confusion paradox, and we see in all sorts of in all sorts of fields.

Right, So that confusion paradox, and we see in all sorts of in all sorts of fields.

How do we apply this to sports?

How do we apply this to sports?

Scambling maybe, like, given that you win, what's the probability you know what you're doing?

Scambling maybe, like, given that you win, what's the probability you know what you're doing?

And given that you know what you're doing, what's the probability that you win?

And given that you know what you're doing, what's the probability that you win?

That's it.

That's it.

That's it, right, because given that you win, there's going to be a lot of false positives.

That's it, right, because given that you win, there's going to be a lot of false positives.

There's gonna be a lot of people who just randomly win.

There's gonna be a lot of people who just randomly win.

That was Walker and Tom. They're still up a bunch of money riding high on false positives. I think they sort of knew it, but sort of knowing it's very different from feeling it. I wanted them to feel it, and soon enough they did.

That was Walker and Tom. They're still up a bunch of money riding high on false positives. I think they sort of knew it, but sort of knowing it's very different from feeling it. I wanted them to feel it, and soon enough they did.

All right, So last night I made a two leg parlay against Schalker's suggestions and against everything I've read online saying the parlays are bad, but I felt like I had to do it to make up for the lost money. So we'll see if it pays out.

All right, So last night I made a two leg parlay against Schalker's suggestions and against everything I've read online saying the parlays are bad, but I felt like I had to do it to make up for the lost money. So we'll see if it pays out.

Hello, I'm a dinner again and I just placed the dumbest bet of my life. I bet the over three thirty or the USA wins by over thirty point spread, or the minus thirty on the point spread for USA. And I put one hundred dollars on it, the daily limit on my debit card.

Hello, I'm a dinner again and I just placed the dumbest bet of my life. I bet the over three thirty or the USA wins by over thirty point spread, or the minus thirty on the point spread for USA. And I put one hundred dollars on it, the daily limit on my debit card.

The losses follow the games. They surely as winner follows fall. When they won, they thought they were sharp desk gamblers in the world. When they lost, they didn't know what to think, so instead they just felt and turned whatever they were feeling about themselves onto others.

The losses follow the games. They surely as winner follows fall. When they won, they thought they were sharp desk gamblers in the world. When they lost, they didn't know what to think, so instead they just felt and turned whatever they were feeling about themselves onto others.

How do you pitch?

How do you pitch?

How do you strike out seven and then decide not to strike out six? You're two? God, pull them honestly. Okay, let's let's talk strategy for like the next bet, because we need to make this back. We need to be on the come up now.

How do you strike out seven and then decide not to strike out six? You're two? God, pull them honestly. Okay, let's let's talk strategy for like the next bet, because we need to make this back. We need to be on the come up now.

Uh do you think it?

Uh do you think it?

We could probably we could probably make six hundred dollars in one bed. I bet you we could. We could be slightly less. No, no, no, no, we can't. No no, no, never mind. Let's not try to do it in one bet. That's a dumb idea. This is how people start losing money.

We could probably we could probably make six hundred dollars in one bed. I bet you we could. We could be slightly less. No, no, no, no, we can't. No no, no, never mind. Let's not try to do it in one bet. That's a dumb idea. This is how people start losing money.

Like most people, these two weren't constrained by some process, because like most people, they didn't really have a process. As LJ found during one of her regular check ins, Oh my god.

Like most people, these two weren't constrained by some process, because like most people, they didn't really have a process. As LJ found during one of her regular check ins, Oh my god.

They can only score ten points now in four minutes. Yeah no, LJ, I'm actually lost.

They can only score ten points now in four minutes. Yeah no, LJ, I'm actually lost.

They have to score ten points or they can only score ten points. They're not gonna score ten points in four minutes.

They have to score ten points or they can only score ten points. They're not gonna score ten points in four minutes.

Yeah they will. Literally, how these guys are running up and down the court on my own, I've scored ten points in four minutes, Like it's not hard. Two teams who are at a professional level, Swear to God, if they don't play the best fucking defense of their life, I'm gonna lose my shit, maybe like a one month later, saying like, you know in movies where it's like where are they now?

Yeah they will. Literally, how these guys are running up and down the court on my own, I've scored ten points in four minutes, Like it's not hard. Two teams who are at a professional level, Swear to God, if they don't play the best fucking defense of their life, I'm gonna lose my shit, maybe like a one month later, saying like, you know in movies where it's like where are they now?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Yeah, it's like, yeah, Walker lost all his money and just don't know where he is because he's like current homeless somewhere in their SF area, Like I live in those viewers.

Yeah, it's like, yeah, Walker lost all his money and just don't know where he is because he's like current homeless somewhere in their SF area, Like I live in those viewers.

Now, I think you might win this. I think you could win this Walker.

Now, I think you might win this. I think you could win this Walker.

Oh j I think you're really really wrong. I actually have one hundred percent lost this.

Oh j I think you're really really wrong. I actually have one hundred percent lost this.

It's interesting that you're just watching the score, like you're not even watching the game, like you're so beyond that.

It's interesting that you're just watching the score, like you're not even watching the game, like you're so beyond that.

Oh god, damn it. How did I let that happen? What is wrong with me?

Oh god, damn it. How did I let that happen? What is wrong with me?

Well, good luck, I'm gonna go have breakfast.

Well, good luck, I'm gonna go have breakfast.

Free of shame and guilt. You didn't just lose one thousand dollars, Yeah, that's true.

Free of shame and guilt. You didn't just lose one thousand dollars, Yeah, that's true.

People pay way too much attention to winners. Winners get books written about them, Winners are constantly being asked to explain how they won. Winners get really good and making other people feel they know something. But losers have more to teach us. Losers have suffered only when you have lost. Have you experienced the deep reality of sports gambling.

People pay way too much attention to winners. Winners get books written about them, Winners are constantly being asked to explain how they won. Winners get really good and making other people feel they know something. But losers have more to teach us. Losers have suffered only when you have lost. Have you experienced the deep reality of sports gambling.

I can't believe that just happened.

I can't believe that just happened.

Oh my god, I lost.

Oh my god, I lost.

It's like one hundred dollars because I pressed the wrong button. Or maybe I lost five hundred dollars like an idiot.

It's like one hundred dollars because I pressed the wrong button. Or maybe I lost five hundred dollars like an idiot.

Oh that was sert.

Oh that was sert.

That's the reality of this new industry. It's not good for you. But it's easy to ignore that fact because we've accepted a wider frame and gotten too used to saying okay to industries that are a lot like it.

That's the reality of this new industry. It's not good for you. But it's easy to ignore that fact because we've accepted a wider frame and gotten too used to saying okay to industries that are a lot like it.

I was working in a pretty benign like ad tech job, deciding which ads people saw on Expedia or what have you, some kind of travel website.

I was working in a pretty benign like ad tech job, deciding which ads people saw on Expedia or what have you, some kind of travel website.

That's Kathy O'Neil my son was chasing his losses. But I was still hunting for the final piece of my masterclass.

That's Kathy O'Neil my son was chasing his losses. But I was still hunting for the final piece of my masterclass.

But I realized quickly that the kinds of predictions I was making, which were not that different from predicting markets were really they were really profiling people by wealth, by gender, and by race, and sort of making lucky people luckier and unlucky people unluckier.

But I realized quickly that the kinds of predictions I was making, which were not that different from predicting markets were really they were really profiling people by wealth, by gender, and by race, and sort of making lucky people luckier and unlucky people unluckier.

Back in two thousand and seven, Kathy had gone from being a math professor Barnard to working on Wall Street, where she saw the way math was used to hide the risks that led to the financial crisis. The traders' bonuses were based on the profit they made, divided by the risk they were taking. By hiding the risk, they raised their bonuses. They also orchestrated a disaster for ordinary people. Kathy became disillusioned. She quit her job and went to work at an online advertising firm.

Back in two thousand and seven, Kathy had gone from being a math professor Barnard to working on Wall Street, where she saw the way math was used to hide the risks that led to the financial crisis. The traders' bonuses were based on the profit they made, divided by the risk they were taking. By hiding the risk, they raised their bonuses. They also orchestrated a disaster for ordinary people. Kathy became disillusioned. She quit her job and went to work at an online advertising firm.

And I was like, wait here I am again. What happens?

And I was like, wait here I am again. What happens?

Like how did I get here? Like I'm yet again like making the world worse. So this time I was like, I'm not doing this again. I'm going to tell the public, like what's happening.

Like how did I get here? Like I'm yet again like making the world worse. So this time I was like, I'm not doing this again. I'm going to tell the public, like what's happening.

She wrote a book called Weapons of Math Destruction about the ways people who are good at math use it to disguise the exploitation of people who aren't.

She wrote a book called Weapons of Math Destruction about the ways people who are good at math use it to disguise the exploitation of people who aren't.

When I wrote it, the reception was mixed. You know, some people were like holy crap, Like This really makes me understand my work in insurance much more, and I'm much more.

When I wrote it, the reception was mixed. You know, some people were like holy crap, Like This really makes me understand my work in insurance much more, and I'm much more.

Worried about it.

Worried about it.

You know.

You know.

So there are a lot of people who who were I think rightly concerned, But there are a lot of people are like, I can't believe you know, you've betrayed us. You know, there's a kind of notion that we nerds are supposed to sort of keep the secrets of other nerds.

So there are a lot of people who who were I think rightly concerned, But there are a lot of people are like, I can't believe you know, you've betrayed us. You know, there's a kind of notion that we nerds are supposed to sort of keep the secrets of other nerds.

Those secrets described in Kathy's book are hidden in code that the companies on the other side of your business don't want you to think too much about. It isn't just how Google serves you ads. It's how your credit is scored, your insurance is priced, and your job application is handled. Now it's also how your new sports gambling habit is managed. The ads lead you to the apps, and the apps coax you to behave in certain ways without making it clear what they're doing or why. How would you think about the algorithms, about designing algorithms to take advantage of these people? What kind of things would you build into the algos?

Those secrets described in Kathy's book are hidden in code that the companies on the other side of your business don't want you to think too much about. It isn't just how Google serves you ads. It's how your credit is scored, your insurance is priced, and your job application is handled. Now it's also how your new sports gambling habit is managed. The ads lead you to the apps, and the apps coax you to behave in certain ways without making it clear what they're doing or why. How would you think about the algorithms, about designing algorithms to take advantage of these people? What kind of things would you build into the algos?

Well, it depends on how you're trying to take advantage of them. Right, If you're trying to take advantage of people who are addicted to gambling. Then you get somehow you get money back if you've lost, but it's not really money.

Well, it depends on how you're trying to take advantage of them. Right, If you're trying to take advantage of people who are addicted to gambling. Then you get somehow you get money back if you've lost, but it's not really money.

It's just many more opportunities to bet.

It's just many more opportunities to bet.

And that's exactly the kind of thing you would do if you just wanted to make sure you hook somebody, and you might even lose a little bit of money as a business. But if you hook a statistically large proportion of people that way, then in the long term, you're making a lot more money off of people's addictions.

And that's exactly the kind of thing you would do if you just wanted to make sure you hook somebody, and you might even lose a little bit of money as a business. But if you hook a statistically large proportion of people that way, then in the long term, you're making a lot more money off of people's addictions.

And the beauty of it is how impersonal it is. No individual ever needs to acknowledge what they're doing. The sports gambling industrial complex is just another ab testing machine with a mind of its own.

And the beauty of it is how impersonal it is. No individual ever needs to acknowledge what they're doing. The sports gambling industrial complex is just another ab testing machine with a mind of its own.

They try out a bunch of things and see what works the best. Let's say, let's try to get people to bet on the red sox with green letters, and also let's try the same exact words, but let's try it with red letters and see which ones they are more.

They try out a bunch of things and see what works the best. Let's say, let's try to get people to bet on the red sox with green letters, and also let's try the same exact words, but let's try it with red letters and see which ones they are more.

Likely to click on.

Likely to click on.

And the answer is going to be red letters. Now we know what letters, what about the font, what about the background, what about the pictures? What about exactly what words we use? And you're just constantly you're pummeling the audience with that, but moreover, you're pummeling different audiences with different things because you've profiled different audiences to be vulnerable to different messages, So not just the who's the home team, but like how addicted are you and how much money do you have? And what is your favorite type of betting? So they'll keep track of all those things and they will micro target your vulnerabilities.

And the answer is going to be red letters. Now we know what letters, what about the font, what about the background, what about the pictures? What about exactly what words we use? And you're just constantly you're pummeling the audience with that, but moreover, you're pummeling different audiences with different things because you've profiled different audiences to be vulnerable to different messages, So not just the who's the home team, but like how addicted are you and how much money do you have? And what is your favorite type of betting? So they'll keep track of all those things and they will micro target your vulnerabilities.

So it's taking your past behavior and your response to pass stimuli to try to manage.

So it's taking your past behavior and your response to pass stimuli to try to manage.

Right, it doesn't have to be you, people like you, So it's going to divide you into like a little granular pot and then say, okay, everyone we've seen like you responds to ads like this, and this is how we make the most money from people like you.

Right, it doesn't have to be you, people like you, So it's going to divide you into like a little granular pot and then say, okay, everyone we've seen like you responds to ads like this, and this is how we make the most money from people like you.

And the case of sports betting is to manage my behavior so that I maximize my losses.