this year. Obviously people are talking about the will smith slap and they have been referring back to your speech.

this year. Obviously people are talking about the will smith slap and they have been referring back to your speech.

Well, I have one thing to say about that.

Well, I have one thing to say about that.

I didn't do it.

I didn't do it.

Glad you made that clear. This is Sacheen little feather whose appearance at the 1973 Academy Awards on behalf of Marlon Brando recently went viral in reaction to will smith slapping chris rock at the 2022 Academy Awards ceremony.

Glad you made that clear. This is Sacheen little feather whose appearance at the 1973 Academy Awards on behalf of Marlon Brando recently went viral in reaction to will smith slapping chris rock at the 2022 Academy Awards ceremony.

But there was a threat of violence that you faced that evening

But there was a threat of violence that you faced that evening

and I wonder if you're open to talking about that

and I wonder if you're open to talking about that

backstage, behind me,

backstage, behind me,

John Wayne

John Wayne

was very incensed, he attempted to assault me on stage. He had to be restrained by six security men in order to prevent him from doing exactly that

was very incensed, he attempted to assault me on stage. He had to be restrained by six security men in order to prevent him from doing exactly that

there is no footage of john Wayne, the Hollywood actor famous for playing cowboys reacting to session speech. But several people, including the Director of that evening's awards, have confirmed these accounts

there is no footage of john Wayne, the Hollywood actor famous for playing cowboys reacting to session speech. But several people, including the Director of that evening's awards, have confirmed these accounts

that night Marlon Brando was nominated for Best Actor for his role as Don Corleone in The Godfather. He had asked Sachin to attend the ceremony in his place and if he won to refuse the award on his behalf accepting the award for Marlon Brando in The Godfather

that night Marlon Brando was nominated for Best Actor for his role as Don Corleone in The Godfather. He had asked Sachin to attend the ceremony in his place and if he won to refuse the award on his behalf accepting the award for Marlon Brando in The Godfather

Before session went on stage that night, the producer of the ceremony told her that she would be arrested if she did not keep her speech to under a minute. The standard speech time.

Before session went on stage that night, the producer of the ceremony told her that she would be arrested if she did not keep her speech to under a minute. The standard speech time.

I knew I had to do everything in 60 seconds or less. I saw the police officers waiting in the wings to take me in handcuffs off the stage.

I knew I had to do everything in 60 seconds or less. I saw the police officers waiting in the wings to take me in handcuffs off the stage.

Here is the speech that made john Wayne so angry that he needed to be restrained from charging the stage. Hello, my name is Sacheen little feather. I'm Apache and I'm president of the National Native American Affirmative Image committee. I'm representing Marlon Brando this evening. He very regretfully cannot accept this very generous award.

Here is the speech that made john Wayne so angry that he needed to be restrained from charging the stage. Hello, my name is Sacheen little feather. I'm Apache and I'm president of the National Native American Affirmative Image committee. I'm representing Marlon Brando this evening. He very regretfully cannot accept this very generous award.

And the reasons for this being are the treatment of american indians today by the film industry,

And the reasons for this being are the treatment of american indians today by the film industry,

excuse me

excuse me

and on television, in movie reruns

and on television, in movie reruns

and also with recent happenings at wounded knee.

and also with recent happenings at wounded knee.

I beg at this time that I have not intruded upon this evening and that we will in the future. Our hearts and our understandings will meet with love and generosity. Thank you On behalf of Marlon Brando.

I beg at this time that I have not intruded upon this evening and that we will in the future. Our hearts and our understandings will meet with love and generosity. Thank you On behalf of Marlon Brando.

I carried myself as a dignified indian woman would carry herself.

I carried myself as a dignified indian woman would carry herself.

I spoke with courage with dignity with honor. I did not use my fist. I did not use profanity and I did not use a loud and egregious voice. I spoke from my heart because the heart and the heartbeat is the voice of all indigenous people everywhere. And that is exactly what happened

I spoke with courage with dignity with honor. I did not use my fist. I did not use profanity and I did not use a loud and egregious voice. I spoke from my heart because the heart and the heartbeat is the voice of all indigenous people everywhere. And that is exactly what happened

In 60 seconds or less

In 60 seconds or less

in this week's episode. We are going to tell the behind the scenes story of Sachin speech and break down the political and cultural forces at play. That led to that moment

in this week's episode. We are going to tell the behind the scenes story of Sachin speech and break down the political and cultural forces at play. That led to that moment

And later in the episode, we'll hear from singer songwriter and the first indigenous person to win an Oscar Buffy Sainte Marie. She tells us about her reaction to Sachin speech as well as what she believes the academy's role should be in relation to social justice movements.

And later in the episode, we'll hear from singer songwriter and the first indigenous person to win an Oscar Buffy Sainte Marie. She tells us about her reaction to Sachin speech as well as what she believes the academy's role should be in relation to social justice movements.

In 1973, Sacheen Little Feather was both an activist and an actress. She says what inspired her to begin acting in part was the fact that her father was deaf. I couldn't communicate with him in sign language like my mother did. So I had to communicate through

In 1973, Sacheen Little Feather was both an activist and an actress. She says what inspired her to begin acting in part was the fact that her father was deaf. I couldn't communicate with him in sign language like my mother did. So I had to communicate through

other ways and basically had to act out for him the messages. So you you were performing out of a kind of necessity. Family necessity. Yes, absolutely. And when I was in grade school

other ways and basically had to act out for him the messages. So you you were performing out of a kind of necessity. Family necessity. Yes, absolutely. And when I was in grade school

I got to play several parts in several different plays

I got to play several parts in several different plays

and enjoyed the experience. Of course there was a lot of racially, you know, prejudice back then as well.

and enjoyed the experience. Of course there was a lot of racially, you know, prejudice back then as well.

We were called the N word in grade school

We were called the N word in grade school

and when I went to visit Mississippi Alabama and the Southern states, I was made to drink out of the black drinking faucet

and when I went to visit Mississippi Alabama and the Southern states, I was made to drink out of the black drinking faucet

and use the black bathrooms and I felt heard saw and knew that there were great injustices going on

and use the black bathrooms and I felt heard saw and knew that there were great injustices going on

not only as an indian person

not only as an indian person

but with all people of color. Were you thinking that acting could be a way that you could

but with all people of color. Were you thinking that acting could be a way that you could

make a difference in terms of these issues. I think in terms of acting,

make a difference in terms of these issues. I think in terms of acting,

I felt that there should be

I felt that there should be

native people. Black people asian people, chicano people.

native people. Black people asian people, chicano people.

I felt that there should be an inclusion of everyone,

I felt that there should be an inclusion of everyone,

a rainbow of people that should be involved in creating their own image.

a rainbow of people that should be involved in creating their own image.

I want to ask you about some of the ways that you

I want to ask you about some of the ways that you

you know, encountered images of indigenous people on screen. I mean, did you have strong feelings about the western when you were growing up? Did you immediately see this as a problem?

you know, encountered images of indigenous people on screen. I mean, did you have strong feelings about the western when you were growing up? Did you immediately see this as a problem?

I think that everybody who saw Westerns who was native wanted to be a cowboy.

I think that everybody who saw Westerns who was native wanted to be a cowboy.

I think that there is

I think that there is

a desire to be identifying with the winner. You know, who wants to identify with the loser?

a desire to be identifying with the winner. You know, who wants to identify with the loser?

Well, I saw native people as being stereotyped. There was a Hollywood indian, the movie indian and then the real indian,

Well, I saw native people as being stereotyped. There was a Hollywood indian, the movie indian and then the real indian,

there were two indians, one that was not real and one that was real

there were two indians, one that was not real and one that was real

and I knew the one that was real, that had nothing to do with the screen. Indian with the Hollywood indian

and I knew the one that was real, that had nothing to do with the screen. Indian with the Hollywood indian

and under the domination of that stereotype. We couldn't get jobs in the industry and represent ourselves as we really are. There was job discrimination and the movie industry basically looked like Clorox factory. I mean, it was so white, it was ridiculous. What sorts of opportunities were there for you when you were starting your acting career? Well, very few

and under the domination of that stereotype. We couldn't get jobs in the industry and represent ourselves as we really are. There was job discrimination and the movie industry basically looked like Clorox factory. I mean, it was so white, it was ridiculous. What sorts of opportunities were there for you when you were starting your acting career? Well, very few

except I got a few jobs with italian film crews

except I got a few jobs with italian film crews

because in those days I was considered exotic and that meant that you didn't get employment very often because you were too exotic for mainstream. You heard that rather than we won't hire you because you're a person of color,

because in those days I was considered exotic and that meant that you didn't get employment very often because you were too exotic for mainstream. You heard that rather than we won't hire you because you're a person of color,

no matter what your credentials were,

no matter what your credentials were,

no matter how good you were. Period, especially in ads and advertising, you didn't use a bar of soap, you didn't use laundry detergent,

no matter how good you were. Period, especially in ads and advertising, you didn't use a bar of soap, you didn't use laundry detergent,

you didn't drink coca cola. We were just non existent and no one ever questioned that.

you didn't drink coca cola. We were just non existent and no one ever questioned that.

I questioned it.

I questioned it.

I questioned it when I refused the Academy Award for Marlon Brando in 1973.

I questioned it when I refused the Academy Award for Marlon Brando in 1973.

I want to talk a lot about what happened that night. But I think part of the important context is your work as an activist and your interest as an activist. You had participated in the Alcatraz occupation

I want to talk a lot about what happened that night. But I think part of the important context is your work as an activist and your interest as an activist. You had participated in the Alcatraz occupation

And you brought awareness to what was happening at wounded knee, the occupation there. And it would be really helpful I think to hear you talk about what that moment was like in the early 1970s in terms of native struggle and organizing

And you brought awareness to what was happening at wounded knee, the occupation there. And it would be really helpful I think to hear you talk about what that moment was like in the early 1970s in terms of native struggle and organizing

many native americans have parents who went to american indian boarding schools, whether they were run by the government or run by the churches because the churches were instrumental in grabbing indian land from indians and keeping that land for themselves.

many native americans have parents who went to american indian boarding schools, whether they were run by the government or run by the churches because the churches were instrumental in grabbing indian land from indians and keeping that land for themselves.

And this is a way

And this is a way

That making child napping legal was taking Children away at the age of four and 5 from the parents

That making child napping legal was taking Children away at the age of four and 5 from the parents

and keeping them in boarding schools

and keeping them in boarding schools

In the US there were over 400 boarding schools operating from the late 1800s up until as recently as the 1960s with the express intention to assimilate indigenous Children by removing them from their families,

In the US there were over 400 boarding schools operating from the late 1800s up until as recently as the 1960s with the express intention to assimilate indigenous Children by removing them from their families,

keep the child but destroy everything about the indian, destroy everything about the culture, destroy the language, destroy the native american spiritual belief system and turn the native american into a dominant society, person with dominant society values.

keep the child but destroy everything about the indian, destroy everything about the culture, destroy the language, destroy the native american spiritual belief system and turn the native american into a dominant society, person with dominant society values.

So in the late 60s, in the early 1970s

So in the late 60s, in the early 1970s

was there a particular way in which folks were coming to consciousness that they were organizing in a way that was especially important at that time.

was there a particular way in which folks were coming to consciousness that they were organizing in a way that was especially important at that time.

There was the american indian movement

There was the american indian movement

and its followers

and its followers

and they were the ones that were wounded knee. In South Dakota. The american indian movement was a militant civil rights group similar to the black panthers or militia that was raising consciousness and fighting for indigenous issues. A month before solutions appearance at the Academy Awards members of the American Indian movement along with 200 oglala Lakota activists seized control of the small town of wounded knee. South Dakota taking citizens hostage

and they were the ones that were wounded knee. In South Dakota. The american indian movement was a militant civil rights group similar to the black panthers or militia that was raising consciousness and fighting for indigenous issues. A month before solutions appearance at the Academy Awards members of the American Indian movement along with 200 oglala Lakota activists seized control of the small town of wounded knee. South Dakota taking citizens hostage

and demanded the U. S. Government make good on treaties respecting indigenous land ownership.

and demanded the U. S. Government make good on treaties respecting indigenous land ownership.

The american indian movement wanted to bring attention to the broken promises of the US government and the impoverished living conditions. Indigenous peoples were forced to endure.

The american indian movement wanted to bring attention to the broken promises of the US government and the impoverished living conditions. Indigenous peoples were forced to endure.

Here's russell means one of the leaders of the occupation talking about those conditions from wounded knee at the time,

Here's russell means one of the leaders of the occupation talking about those conditions from wounded knee at the time,

we are suffering starvation, hunger, inadequate shelter, inadequate warmth in climate type of weather,

we are suffering starvation, hunger, inadequate shelter, inadequate warmth in climate type of weather,

there was a great injustice there

there was a great injustice there

the way that native american indian people were treated.

the way that native american indian people were treated.

And so the american indian movement came there within hours of the occupation police had surrounded the town

And so the american indian movement came there within hours of the occupation police had surrounded the town

and as a result the FBI came in and there was a media blackout at wounded knee. Federal officials were blocking press from speaking to the indigenous activists as part of their military tactic to squash the occupation. Now when I came up on the podium to represent Marlon Brando,

and as a result the FBI came in and there was a media blackout at wounded knee. Federal officials were blocking press from speaking to the indigenous activists as part of their military tactic to squash the occupation. Now when I came up on the podium to represent Marlon Brando,

I mentioned in my speech, wounded knee,

I mentioned in my speech, wounded knee,

Let's talk about how you um arrived at that moment

Let's talk about how you um arrived at that moment

of going on stage and giving this speech.

of going on stage and giving this speech.

When did you meet Marlon Brando? How did how did you connect with him and how did this plan develop that you would stand in for him at the Academy Awards. I lived in san Francisco not far from Francis ford Coppola Francis ford Coppola is of course the director of the Godfather trilogy. And I used to walk the hills of san Francisco

When did you meet Marlon Brando? How did how did you connect with him and how did this plan develop that you would stand in for him at the Academy Awards. I lived in san Francisco not far from Francis ford Coppola Francis ford Coppola is of course the director of the Godfather trilogy. And I used to walk the hills of san Francisco

which is quite a feat because they're very steep. But that was my exercise and I used to walk by Francis ford Coppola's house every day and he used to sit out on his porch. I had read many articles about Marlon Brando being interested in native american indian people but I had wondered if Marlon Brando was very sincere in his interest in native american indian people

which is quite a feat because they're very steep. But that was my exercise and I used to walk by Francis ford Coppola's house every day and he used to sit out on his porch. I had read many articles about Marlon Brando being interested in native american indian people but I had wondered if Marlon Brando was very sincere in his interest in native american indian people

or was he just studying up for a film role.

or was he just studying up for a film role.

So I wrote a letter to him but I didn't know where to send it.

So I wrote a letter to him but I didn't know where to send it.

And it was a very sincere letter and I knew that Francis ford Coppola had directed him and The Godfather.

And it was a very sincere letter and I knew that Francis ford Coppola had directed him and The Godfather.

So I asked Francis ford Coppola when I was walking by one day

So I asked Francis ford Coppola when I was walking by one day

as an attractive young woman,

as an attractive young woman,

I called out to him and I said hello and I introduced myself and he asked me to come up on his porch. And I did and I began a conversation with him

I called out to him and I said hello and I introduced myself and he asked me to come up on his porch. And I did and I began a conversation with him

and eventually I told him I had this letter from Marlon Brando

and eventually I told him I had this letter from Marlon Brando

and I said but I don't know where to send it.

and I said but I don't know where to send it.

So he helped me to send that letter.

So he helped me to send that letter.

I waited a year. I was working at the radio station K. F. R. C. Finally one day a year later at the radio station

I waited a year. I was working at the radio station K. F. R. C. Finally one day a year later at the radio station

I got this very mysterious call.

I got this very mysterious call.

So they put the call through

So they put the call through

and he said to me

and he said to me

in his voices that he had

in his voices that he had

oh I bet you don't know who this is.

oh I bet you don't know who this is.

And I said sure I do. And he said well who is it?

And I said sure I do. And he said well who is it?

And I said it's Marlon Brando.

And I said it's Marlon Brando.

And he he laughed and I said well you sure beat indian time all the hell I told them

And he he laughed and I said well you sure beat indian time all the hell I told them

And he laughed again and we laughed

And he laughed again and we laughed

and we just talk like we're old friends

and we just talk like we're old friends

about everything that was native, if he was playing a part of the native or if he was really interested in native american indian people

about everything that was native, if he was playing a part of the native or if he was really interested in native american indian people

and we had a great conversation

and we had a great conversation

and from then on we just became phone buddies,

and from then on we just became phone buddies,

he used to call me at home and then I would fly down and spend time with he and his family as a house guest.

he used to call me at home and then I would fly down and spend time with he and his family as a house guest.

And uh, I just knew him as a human being.

And uh, I just knew him as a human being.

I was interested in him

I was interested in him

as a fellow activist and also as just a person period. It sounds like you got to a place where you did feel that he was sincere in the interest that he was showing. Absolutely yes, I did. So when did he start to talk to you about the plan? The possibility that you would accept the Oscar on his behalf if he were to win. And he was clearly a frontrunner for winning the academy Award that year.

as a fellow activist and also as just a person period. It sounds like you got to a place where you did feel that he was sincere in the interest that he was showing. Absolutely yes, I did. So when did he start to talk to you about the plan? The possibility that you would accept the Oscar on his behalf if he were to win. And he was clearly a frontrunner for winning the academy Award that year.

So he called me on a saturday

So he called me on a saturday

and the academy awards was the next day,

and the academy awards was the next day,

That's how fast it happened.

That's how fast it happened.

And he swore me to secrecy not to tell anybody which I did not.

And he swore me to secrecy not to tell anybody which I did not.

And I flew down to his house

And I flew down to his house

and I asked him about my wardrobe because I really didn't have anything to wear except for my pow wow dress, a northern style buckskin dress

and I asked him about my wardrobe because I really didn't have anything to wear except for my pow wow dress, a northern style buckskin dress

and moccasins and hair ties. So you could say basically he chose my wardrobe for me because he did,

and moccasins and hair ties. So you could say basically he chose my wardrobe for me because he did,

I didn't have any evening gown or evening where? And I went down to his house and he was very busy and his secretary typing up this acceptance speech should he win.

I didn't have any evening gown or evening where? And I went down to his house and he was very busy and his secretary typing up this acceptance speech should he win.

And I was kept basically in the dark.

And I was kept basically in the dark.

So it was really late in the day when his secretary gave me this long speech to read like eight pages, right, eight, Yeah.

So it was really late in the day when his secretary gave me this long speech to read like eight pages, right, eight, Yeah.

And so I I said to myself, wow, this is pretty long, I don't think I could do this.

And so I I said to myself, wow, this is pretty long, I don't think I could do this.

And when I got to the Academy Awards, Howard Koch, who was the producer of the Academy Awards Show itself, said to me,

And when I got to the Academy Awards, Howard Koch, who was the producer of the Academy Awards Show itself, said to me,

If you read that speech or go over 60 seconds, I'm going to have you arrested. That's when Sachin knew that she would have to improvise and not read off of the statement Marlon Brando and his secretary had written and his name was called as best actor.

If you read that speech or go over 60 seconds, I'm going to have you arrested. That's when Sachin knew that she would have to improvise and not read off of the statement Marlon Brando and his secretary had written and his name was called as best actor.

And so I knew what I had to do

And so I knew what I had to do

and I was praying beforehand the whole time for the strength and the courage

and I was praying beforehand the whole time for the strength and the courage

to do what I needed to do.

to do what I needed to do.

And my ancestors were with me,

And my ancestors were with me,

50 million people were watching the broadcast that night.

50 million people were watching the broadcast that night.

The immediate reaction in the room was mixed as we noted, john Wayne was furious and people reacted with a mixture of booing and applause

The immediate reaction in the room was mixed as we noted, john Wayne was furious and people reacted with a mixture of booing and applause

According to Sachin, there were consequences. You have said that after giving your speech that you were red listed

According to Sachin, there were consequences. You have said that after giving your speech that you were red listed

and could you talk about what you mean by that, what that meant in terms of your career

and could you talk about what you mean by that, what that meant in terms of your career

in the industry, the FBI, I found out, went around to studios, I have a friend who was with a particular studio and she told me Sachin the FBI were just here and they told us that if we would ever hire you they would shut us down. Shut our production down. So

in the industry, the FBI, I found out, went around to studios, I have a friend who was with a particular studio and she told me Sachin the FBI were just here and they told us that if we would ever hire you they would shut us down. Shut our production down. So

there were lies that were printed about me in the press. There were lies going around about me altogether. Said I rented my buckskin dress that I was an indian. I was a mexican actress that it was all a publicity stunt etcetera etcetera etcetera. Nothing could be further from the truth.

there were lies that were printed about me in the press. There were lies going around about me altogether. Said I rented my buckskin dress that I was an indian. I was a mexican actress that it was all a publicity stunt etcetera etcetera etcetera. Nothing could be further from the truth.

But ultimately Sachin was not concerned about what Hollywood or the government thought about her or her speech. People who sent me notes of congratulations were Coretta scott King, the widow of martin Luther king and also cesar Chavez also my own people

But ultimately Sachin was not concerned about what Hollywood or the government thought about her or her speech. People who sent me notes of congratulations were Coretta scott King, the widow of martin Luther king and also cesar Chavez also my own people

and others

and others

who counted in my life who I admired and I knew that I had done the right thing irregardless of what other people had said or did to me.

who counted in my life who I admired and I knew that I had done the right thing irregardless of what other people had said or did to me.

I knew I had done the right thing

I knew I had done the right thing

coming up, legendary folk singer, songwriter Buffy Sainte Marie,

coming up, legendary folk singer, songwriter Buffy Sainte Marie,

Buffy Sainte Marie was the first indigenous person to win an Oscar.

Buffy Sainte Marie was the first indigenous person to win an Oscar.

The winner is Jack Cichy Buffy Sainte Marie,

The winner is Jack Cichy Buffy Sainte Marie,

She won for Best Original Song in 1983. She co wrote up where we belong for the movie and officer and a gentleman. It was performed by Joe Cocker and Jennifer Warrants.

She won for Best Original Song in 1983. She co wrote up where we belong for the movie and officer and a gentleman. It was performed by Joe Cocker and Jennifer Warrants.

Thank you for me too,

Thank you for me too,

marty Stuart Levin joe conquer jennifer warren's kurtz over my mom, my little boy Cody

marty Stuart Levin joe conquer jennifer warren's kurtz over my mom, my little boy Cody

and most of all, my husband Jack nature gave me the chance to be a part of opportunity. Gentlemen, thank you very much.

and most of all, my husband Jack nature gave me the chance to be a part of opportunity. Gentlemen, thank you very much.

Buffy Sainte Marie. It's wonderful to see you always. Thanks jackal and you two in 1983 you became the first indigenous person to win an Oscar. Could you talk about that experience? Did it really uh, strike you that you were making history at that moment when your name was called and you went up on stage. Oh no, I never know. I never thought about that until recently when people have been phrasing it like that. No,

Buffy Sainte Marie. It's wonderful to see you always. Thanks jackal and you two in 1983 you became the first indigenous person to win an Oscar. Could you talk about that experience? Did it really uh, strike you that you were making history at that moment when your name was called and you went up on stage. Oh no, I never know. I never thought about that until recently when people have been phrasing it like that. No,

yes. I was the first indigenous person to win an Oscar and it was up where we belong from an officer and a gentleman. I wrote the melody for them. So when it came to be that we had been nominated and we knew we were going to go to the Oscar ceremony. Oh, I had this pink sparkly sequined dress. I mean it was so wonderful but we didn't really expect to win. And then we did. And it was just, it was just astounding

yes. I was the first indigenous person to win an Oscar and it was up where we belong from an officer and a gentleman. I wrote the melody for them. So when it came to be that we had been nominated and we knew we were going to go to the Oscar ceremony. Oh, I had this pink sparkly sequined dress. I mean it was so wonderful but we didn't really expect to win. And then we did. And it was just, it was just astounding

the previous time an indigenous person was on the Academy awards stage with Sacheen little feather. 10 years earlier, Buffy had caught it on tv at the time. She didn't know session personally. What was your reaction to her speech? Of course I knew marlin And this was 1973 for Pete's sakes, 1973 there was a war against indigenous people in south Dakota wounded name was going on.

the previous time an indigenous person was on the Academy awards stage with Sacheen little feather. 10 years earlier, Buffy had caught it on tv at the time. She didn't know session personally. What was your reaction to her speech? Of course I knew marlin And this was 1973 for Pete's sakes, 1973 there was a war against indigenous people in south Dakota wounded name was going on.

So what we had to deal with was a little bit different from everybody else in that studio audience or most of the people watching television. And I was very proud of Sachin and I was totally surprised of course. And he was proud of marlin too because let me tell you how it is. Sometimes the american indian movement or some of the group would invite a celebrity, you know, someone of the level of jane fonda or Marlon brando and they would show up all heart, you know, they would really, really want to help and all.

So what we had to deal with was a little bit different from everybody else in that studio audience or most of the people watching television. And I was very proud of Sachin and I was totally surprised of course. And he was proud of marlin too because let me tell you how it is. Sometimes the american indian movement or some of the group would invite a celebrity, you know, someone of the level of jane fonda or Marlon brando and they would show up all heart, you know, they would really, really want to help and all.

But what do you think the dog on media is going to do? They're not there to see our issue and we wind up with a great big story about our celebrity who was there to help the indians and the issue isn't even portrayed accurately, which kind of was the point.

But what do you think the dog on media is going to do? They're not there to see our issue and we wind up with a great big story about our celebrity who was there to help the indians and the issue isn't even portrayed accurately, which kind of was the point.

So for Sachin to get up there in front of the whole wide world and to represent marlin in that way, I thought, I thought it was great. But you know, there's a lot to say. We should probably give people kind of a feeling about how it was in Hollywood for indigenous people, you know? Yeah, yeah. Because that's the first thing she said, she talks about the treatment of the american indian, maybe you could help us to sort of get a sense of the picture that she was describing.

So for Sachin to get up there in front of the whole wide world and to represent marlin in that way, I thought, I thought it was great. But you know, there's a lot to say. We should probably give people kind of a feeling about how it was in Hollywood for indigenous people, you know? Yeah, yeah. Because that's the first thing she said, she talks about the treatment of the american indian, maybe you could help us to sort of get a sense of the picture that she was describing.

Well, it's kind of weird. If you, if you look at movie history, I guess probably the first thing that you would come up with involving indigenous people would pay thomas. Edison, I mean he made, he made one of the first movies and you know, they were colorful things and interesting things. So we started showing up and being portrayed by other people in the movies right out of the gate

Well, it's kind of weird. If you, if you look at movie history, I guess probably the first thing that you would come up with involving indigenous people would pay thomas. Edison, I mean he made, he made one of the first movies and you know, they were colorful things and interesting things. So we started showing up and being portrayed by other people in the movies right out of the gate

too Short. Edison films made in the late 18 hundreds, Buffalo dance and Sue ghost dance featuring Sioux tribes members are considered to be the first instances of indigenous peoples caught on film

too Short. Edison films made in the late 18 hundreds, Buffalo dance and Sue ghost dance featuring Sioux tribes members are considered to be the first instances of indigenous peoples caught on film

From Robert Flaherty's Nanook of the north in 1922 to educational films from the mid-20th century. Indigenous communities have long been of interest to documentarians, but the films were almost never told from indigenous points of view.

From Robert Flaherty's Nanook of the north in 1922 to educational films from the mid-20th century. Indigenous communities have long been of interest to documentarians, but the films were almost never told from indigenous points of view.

The University of Arizona's American Indian Film Gallery includes nearly 500 documentaries. They featured narration that the project's archivists described as condescending at best and racist and inaccurate at worst. So Buffy was naturally skeptical of projects aimed to capture indigenous history. But anyway, in 1967 or 68, I was invited to take a role in the Virginia.

The University of Arizona's American Indian Film Gallery includes nearly 500 documentaries. They featured narration that the project's archivists described as condescending at best and racist and inaccurate at worst. So Buffy was naturally skeptical of projects aimed to capture indigenous history. But anyway, in 1967 or 68, I was invited to take a role in the Virginia.

The Virginian was a television series set in late 1800s Wyoming and I was offered a role in an episode. But I said if you want me Buffy Sainte Marie who got hit records and is known as an indigenous person to show up in your movie. What I want is real easy. All the indigenous parts are to be played by indigenous people

The Virginian was a television series set in late 1800s Wyoming and I was offered a role in an episode. But I said if you want me Buffy Sainte Marie who got hit records and is known as an indigenous person to show up in your movie. What I want is real easy. All the indigenous parts are to be played by indigenous people

and of course they said oh no that uh we've got, I forget what the number was 32 extras or something and we've got some leading parts to they can't all the indians and I said well then I'm not gonna do it because I know they can

and of course they said oh no that uh we've got, I forget what the number was 32 extras or something and we've got some leading parts to they can't all the indians and I said well then I'm not gonna do it because I know they can

so they were going to use makeup right to make people look like indians. Huh? Yeah they said they said don't worry about it. We've got Filipinos, we've got Italians, we've got jews, we've got Koreans and besides that we've got makeup artists that can turn a dog into a cat And my reaction to that was you know it's more important than just fooling white people.

so they were going to use makeup right to make people look like indians. Huh? Yeah they said they said don't worry about it. We've got Filipinos, we've got Italians, we've got jews, we've got Koreans and besides that we've got makeup artists that can turn a dog into a cat And my reaction to that was you know it's more important than just fooling white people.

We're giving you a gift here.

We're giving you a gift here.

We had so much to bring to the table and see Marlon had been in indian country. He knew that he knew we weren't just one little two little three little indians to be exploited when somebody needed something in feathers to act like a villain or a victim he knew so we appreciated marlin. So Sachin you know she looked so beautiful. She was wearing her traditional clothes and yet we're all quite you know any anybody that I've ever talked to about that evening. You know we were all totally surprised of course

We had so much to bring to the table and see Marlon had been in indian country. He knew that he knew we weren't just one little two little three little indians to be exploited when somebody needed something in feathers to act like a villain or a victim he knew so we appreciated marlin. So Sachin you know she looked so beautiful. She was wearing her traditional clothes and yet we're all quite you know any anybody that I've ever talked to about that evening. You know we were all totally surprised of course

but bravo to both of them, you know, they they did something

but bravo to both of them, you know, they they did something

and I was hoping that you could also talk about some of your activism during that period, part of the Alcatraz occupation for example, because that period

and I was hoping that you could also talk about some of your activism during that period, part of the Alcatraz occupation for example, because that period

is so critical in terms of the american indian movement and uh do you have some, you know, any reflections on the legacy of that movement today? Well, Alcatraz was very important at the time and I still think that Alcatraz is important because Alcatraz was not done just by a bunch of people who were ticked off because their rights are being denied. It wasn't, there was a lot more to it than that.

is so critical in terms of the american indian movement and uh do you have some, you know, any reflections on the legacy of that movement today? Well, Alcatraz was very important at the time and I still think that Alcatraz is important because Alcatraz was not done just by a bunch of people who were ticked off because their rights are being denied. It wasn't, there was a lot more to it than that.

Um the history of Alcatraz itself, I mean Alcatraz should have come to indigenous people, it should have come back to us when they were finished using it for what they were using it for at the time, Alcatraz sat on public land. And so when the infamous Alcatraz prison was shut down and a development plan for a casino was announced, indigenous activists decided to occupy the island and reclaim it.

Um the history of Alcatraz itself, I mean Alcatraz should have come to indigenous people, it should have come back to us when they were finished using it for what they were using it for at the time, Alcatraz sat on public land. And so when the infamous Alcatraz prison was shut down and a development plan for a casino was announced, indigenous activists decided to occupy the island and reclaim it.

Buffy never lived on the island, but she helped bring clean drinking water to the occupiers.

Buffy never lived on the island, but she helped bring clean drinking water to the occupiers.

We wanted to turn it into cultural centers and you know, we had, we had done our homework, but I mean we, I don't mean me particularly, but it was john Trudell and a lot of other people who are in the next world now who really did that work. But the reason why it was important. Alcatraz was one of many, many building complexes campuses that were created on indigenous land with the blessing of indigenous people

We wanted to turn it into cultural centers and you know, we had, we had done our homework, but I mean we, I don't mean me particularly, but it was john Trudell and a lot of other people who are in the next world now who really did that work. But the reason why it was important. Alcatraz was one of many, many building complexes campuses that were created on indigenous land with the blessing of indigenous people

with contracts and when they were no longer going to be used for that specific purpose, they were supposed to come back to us.

with contracts and when they were no longer going to be used for that specific purpose, they were supposed to come back to us.

I mean I wound up ducking bullets. I'm running running through the woods in Russian Wisconsin over this medical facility built on MMA nominee land and it was supposed to be returned to the people. I mean it was built by the catholic church

I mean I wound up ducking bullets. I'm running running through the woods in Russian Wisconsin over this medical facility built on MMA nominee land and it was supposed to be returned to the people. I mean it was built by the catholic church

with the agreement of the Menominee people and then it was supposed to revert back to the tribe and the local vigilantes were not having any of it. They wanted it for themselves and they were shooting at us. So there were things going on before and after Alcatraz, Although I'm glad you bring it up.

with the agreement of the Menominee people and then it was supposed to revert back to the tribe and the local vigilantes were not having any of it. They wanted it for themselves and they were shooting at us. So there were things going on before and after Alcatraz, Although I'm glad you bring it up.

What kind of bothers me a little bit is that it's like every 25 years there's an Indian uprising and we get our names in the paper and then everybody forgets about us because you know, just the way of the world in Canada indigenous people are quite prominently represented in just about any field or profession you can think of. I mean, you know, from, from, from television broadcasters and lawyers.

What kind of bothers me a little bit is that it's like every 25 years there's an Indian uprising and we get our names in the paper and then everybody forgets about us because you know, just the way of the world in Canada indigenous people are quite prominently represented in just about any field or profession you can think of. I mean, you know, from, from, from television broadcasters and lawyers.

There's a huge, huge mix of professions and there are a few people, you know in the academy, there are a few indigenous, I'm not the only indigenous person in the academy, there are other indigenous people, but it's tricky right now, you know, with the academy because just our way of voting, you vote in your own field, like I only vote, I'm in the music branch,

There's a huge, huge mix of professions and there are a few people, you know in the academy, there are a few indigenous, I'm not the only indigenous person in the academy, there are other indigenous people, but it's tricky right now, you know, with the academy because just our way of voting, you vote in your own field, like I only vote, I'm in the music branch,

but and I'm the only indigenous person in the music branch

but and I'm the only indigenous person in the music branch

and you have to have two people in your branch to nominate somebody.

and you have to have two people in your branch to nominate somebody.

And so although we have directors and producers and actors and actresses and we have people in, in, you know, a lot of the professions, there are not two indigenous people

And so although we have directors and producers and actors and actresses and we have people in, in, you know, a lot of the professions, there are not two indigenous people

in any profession

in any profession

familiar enough with what the indigenous talent scene is in film to be able to properly bring those people forward. We have to discuss that it is a lot of talented people, structural issue that you're pointing to, You might have bigger numbers, but if people are isolated in their branches, then what's the impact that they can have? Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Right. Do you think the Academy can or should have a stronger presence in terms of

familiar enough with what the indigenous talent scene is in film to be able to properly bring those people forward. We have to discuss that it is a lot of talented people, structural issue that you're pointing to, You might have bigger numbers, but if people are isolated in their branches, then what's the impact that they can have? Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Right. Do you think the Academy can or should have a stronger presence in terms of

weighing in on social political issues, activists work?

weighing in on social political issues, activists work?

Oh Gosh, that's that's so hard. You know, I try very hard not to tell anybody else what to do. And when it comes to a question like that, I would I would certainly be willing to be part of a discussion, but I do see many sides of many questions I told you as a philosophy major. So I can look, I can look at things from six or 10 points of view at the same time and have fun with that.

Oh Gosh, that's that's so hard. You know, I try very hard not to tell anybody else what to do. And when it comes to a question like that, I would I would certainly be willing to be part of a discussion, but I do see many sides of many questions I told you as a philosophy major. So I can look, I can look at things from six or 10 points of view at the same time and have fun with that.

I don't know the way I look at it. Jacqueline is that there's a whole lot of good work left to be done in the world, including in the movie industry. And that's why we're here. Yeah. So I don't take your your question about you know, whether the academy ought to be doing more,

I don't know the way I look at it. Jacqueline is that there's a whole lot of good work left to be done in the world, including in the movie industry. And that's why we're here. Yeah. So I don't take your your question about you know, whether the academy ought to be doing more,

everybody ought to be doing more. Everybody's ripening and growing and understanding and learning at the same time. So just as for myself, I'm just gonna keep on producing good stuff. And if somebody sees it great and if they don't see it, not as great, but still great because I'm a creative

everybody ought to be doing more. Everybody's ripening and growing and understanding and learning at the same time. So just as for myself, I'm just gonna keep on producing good stuff. And if somebody sees it great and if they don't see it, not as great, but still great because I'm a creative

the movie industry is one of the places that I've been allowed to, you know, do My little dance is, you know, scoring movies and being in things and encouraging people and just being involved with the academy is it's it's a great privilege and we can make good change and we should and it shouldn't be a chore and it shouldn't hurt. It shouldn't hurt. We can do this enjoy. I mean, we're creative people and we certainly have the resources.

the movie industry is one of the places that I've been allowed to, you know, do My little dance is, you know, scoring movies and being in things and encouraging people and just being involved with the academy is it's it's a great privilege and we can make good change and we should and it shouldn't be a chore and it shouldn't hurt. It shouldn't hurt. We can do this enjoy. I mean, we're creative people and we certainly have the resources.

Yes, absolutely. Yes. I have 11 more question for you

Yes, absolutely. Yes. I have 11 more question for you

take a little step back when you hear the term indigenous representation Buffy, what does that mean to you?

take a little step back when you hear the term indigenous representation Buffy, what does that mean to you?

I would have to say I would have to ask for details.

I would have to say I would have to ask for details.

I'm not exactly sure what you're going out but I'll take a stab at it. But I've gotten out of being a concert artist and you know, folk singer songwriter, however you want to describe has been airplane tickets and those airplane tickets not only have taken me to London and paris and Hong kong and Sydney, you know, but also to the indigenous corners of the world where Michael, Jackson and Madonna would not want to go and

I'm not exactly sure what you're going out but I'll take a stab at it. But I've gotten out of being a concert artist and you know, folk singer songwriter, however you want to describe has been airplane tickets and those airplane tickets not only have taken me to London and paris and Hong kong and Sydney, you know, but also to the indigenous corners of the world where Michael, Jackson and Madonna would not want to go and

I would not even be invited to go. It's just a different world. So the world of indigenous people, whether you're talking about indigenous people like Maoris in new Zealand or aboriginal people in Australia and all the different kinds of people in africa. Whether you're talking about the Sami people, the indigenous people of Scandinavia. I mean I've spent lots of time with other indigenous people.

I would not even be invited to go. It's just a different world. So the world of indigenous people, whether you're talking about indigenous people like Maoris in new Zealand or aboriginal people in Australia and all the different kinds of people in africa. Whether you're talking about the Sami people, the indigenous people of Scandinavia. I mean I've spent lots of time with other indigenous people.

So when I hear the word indigenous, I don't just think of Canadian indians or american indians. I don't, I think about first, I know this is actual. When you say the word indigenous first, my brain takes a trip from the arctic circle all the way to to the bottom of south America, all those different people, they're all indigenous.

So when I hear the word indigenous, I don't just think of Canadian indians or american indians. I don't, I think about first, I know this is actual. When you say the word indigenous first, my brain takes a trip from the arctic circle all the way to to the bottom of south America, all those different people, they're all indigenous.

And I've traveled enough in both the glamorous world of show business but also a lot with indigenous people and I know I know how it, I know how it is and indigenous people in the world, what we have in common is a lot of really, really good stuff.

And I've traveled enough in both the glamorous world of show business but also a lot with indigenous people and I know I know how it, I know how it is and indigenous people in the world, what we have in common is a lot of really, really good stuff.

Indigenous people had different systems. Indigenous people sometimes still but not as much as we wish had languages that were quite different from the concept of language is that most people have.

Indigenous people had different systems. Indigenous people sometimes still but not as much as we wish had languages that were quite different from the concept of language is that most people have.

I mean if you talk about spanish and italian and Portuguese and french, you know they're all kind of related and if you look at your hand, each one of those is like a finger. But an indigenous language doesn't come from that part of exercising the brain doesn't come from there. It's like a thumb, it has a different function.

I mean if you talk about spanish and italian and Portuguese and french, you know they're all kind of related and if you look at your hand, each one of those is like a finger. But an indigenous language doesn't come from that part of exercising the brain doesn't come from there. It's like a thumb, it has a different function.

And people who are interested in this subject will tell you that indigenous languages are sometimes exercising a different part of the brain. Coming up with different ways of thinking different ideas. And when you think of the things that indigenous people, just indigenous people of the Americas have given the rest of the world, you might say, oh they look different or they have different music or different, oh boy we can think differently. We have contributions that have yet to be made to the world and people want to start paying attention.

And people who are interested in this subject will tell you that indigenous languages are sometimes exercising a different part of the brain. Coming up with different ways of thinking different ideas. And when you think of the things that indigenous people, just indigenous people of the Americas have given the rest of the world, you might say, oh they look different or they have different music or different, oh boy we can think differently. We have contributions that have yet to be made to the world and people want to start paying attention.

It's not only survival stuff, it's all kinds of other stuff, artsy stuff stories, ways of telling stories. I spent some time with an indigenous woman from Mexico who came from a small rural group

It's not only survival stuff, it's all kinds of other stuff, artsy stuff stories, ways of telling stories. I spent some time with an indigenous woman from Mexico who came from a small rural group

discovered the spanish language and fell in love with it, went to university and when she went home she had the darndest time explaining to her friends what it was that she did because in her language there's no metaphor. So everything the only thing you talk about is what is therefore there's no lying.

discovered the spanish language and fell in love with it, went to university and when she went home she had the darndest time explaining to her friends what it was that she did because in her language there's no metaphor. So everything the only thing you talk about is what is therefore there's no lying.

But she could not explain what poetry was.

But she could not explain what poetry was.

And she became a poet. So now she's a poet who writes in her own language

And she became a poet. So now she's a poet who writes in her own language

for the first time ever and in spanish. So indigenous people all over the world are a page that most of you have not turned yet. And it is exciting, like a library is exciting. It's about everything and we're about everything, including our stories and how we can portray them. It's all good. You know, it's just all good. Yeah.

for the first time ever and in spanish. So indigenous people all over the world are a page that most of you have not turned yet. And it is exciting, like a library is exciting. It's about everything and we're about everything, including our stories and how we can portray them. It's all good. You know, it's just all good. Yeah.

When you talk the way you're describing this incredible wealth of cultural heritage and thinking, think about that. And then you think about the tiny range of representations of indigenous people on screen. I mean the gap is uh is staggering. There just how limited the representations have been.

When you talk the way you're describing this incredible wealth of cultural heritage and thinking, think about that. And then you think about the tiny range of representations of indigenous people on screen. I mean the gap is uh is staggering. There just how limited the representations have been.

It's staggering. You know, And um, you know, there's one way of looking at it would be to say poor us were not represented. But the other way of looking at it is poor. You you don't know what you're missing.

It's staggering. You know, And um, you know, there's one way of looking at it would be to say poor us were not represented. But the other way of looking at it is poor. You you don't know what you're missing.

So that's always the way I've thought about it.

So that's always the way I've thought about it.

Well, thank you Buffy, thank you so much for these insights. I always enjoy talking with you so much. Thank you

Well, thank you Buffy, thank you so much for these insights. I always enjoy talking with you so much. Thank you

now that your big eyes are finally open,

now that your big eyes are finally open,

how that you're wondering how must they feel

how that you're wondering how must they feel

meaning them? That you've chased across America's movie screens.

meaning them? That you've chased across America's movie screens.

No,

No,

that you're wondering

that you're wondering

how can it be real?

how can it be real?

But the ones you've called

But the ones you've called

propaganda,

propaganda,

they starve in their splendor.

they starve in their splendor.

You've asked for my comment. I simply will render

You've asked for my comment. I simply will render

my country.

my country.

The Academy Museum podcast is written and hosted by me Jacqueline Stewart.

The Academy Museum podcast is written and hosted by me Jacqueline Stewart.

This episode was produced by antonia sarah ito. The Academy Museum podcast team includes Kimberly stevens, victoria Alejandro and antonia sarah ito. The show is a production of the Academy Museum of Motion Pictures in collaboration with L. A Studios mixing and original music by E scott kelly.

This episode was produced by antonia sarah ito. The Academy Museum podcast team includes Kimberly stevens, victoria Alejandro and antonia sarah ito. The show is a production of the Academy Museum of Motion Pictures in collaboration with L. A Studios mixing and original music by E scott kelly.

Our theme music was composed by Nicholas, Patel, Antonio Sarah Edo and Leo G are the executive producers for Elia Studios. Our podcast website Elliott dot com slash podcast is designed by Andy Chitwood and the digital and marketing teams at Elliot's Studios, the Academy Museum Marketing team created our branding

Our theme music was composed by Nicholas, Patel, Antonio Sarah Edo and Leo G are the executive producers for Elia Studios. Our podcast website Elliott dot com slash podcast is designed by Andy Chitwood and the digital and marketing teams at Elliot's Studios, the Academy Museum Marketing team created our branding

thanks to the team at the Academy Museum, including Sean Anderson Peter Castro Stephanie sykes and Mat Younger

thanks to the team at the Academy Museum, including Sean Anderson Peter Castro Stephanie sykes and Mat Younger

and to our Academy colleagues, randy Haber camp and Clare Lockhart.

and to our Academy colleagues, randy Haber camp and Clare Lockhart.

Thanks also to the team at Elliot's Studios, including Taylor Kaufman severe brah Kristen Hayford, Kristin Mueller Andy Orosco Michael Cosentino and Leo G

Thanks also to the team at Elliot's Studios, including Taylor Kaufman severe brah Kristen Hayford, Kristin Mueller Andy Orosco Michael Cosentino and Leo G

Academy Museum Digital engagement platforms including this podcast are sponsored by Bloomberg philanthropies,

Academy Museum Digital engagement platforms including this podcast are sponsored by Bloomberg philanthropies,

support for this podcast is made possible by Gordon and Donna Crawford who believe that quality Journalism makes los Angeles a better place to live

support for this podcast is made possible by Gordon and Donna Crawford who believe that quality Journalism makes los Angeles a better place to live

this program is made possible in part by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, a private corporation funded by the american People.

this program is made possible in part by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, a private corporation funded by the american People.