Chatbots are everywhere these days - your bank, your phone company, your facebook... your therapist? Well actually, they were therapists first... 

Rod tells Will the story!

The Wholesome Show is Dr Rod Lamberts and Dr Will Grant, proudly brought to you by the Australian National Centre for the Public Awareness of Science!

Sources:

https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-eliza-effect/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666827020300062

http://www.jabberwacky.com/j2convbydate-N6641part2

https://www.historyofinformation.com/detail.php?id=4137

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna23615538

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Weizenbaum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA_effect

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/therapy-chatbot-depression-app-what-its-like-woebot-2018-1

https://news.mit.edu/2008/obit-weizenbaum-0310

Chatbots are everywhere these days - your bank, your phone company, your facebook... your therapist? Well actually, they were therapists first... Rod tells Will the story! The Wholesome Show is Dr Rod Lamberts and Dr Will Grant, proudly brought to you by the Australian National Centre for the Public Awareness of Science! Sources: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-eliza-effect/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666827020300062 http://www.jabberwacky.com/j2convbydate-N6641part2 https://www.historyofinformation.com/detail.php?id=4137 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna23615538 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Weizenbaum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA_effect https://www.businessinsider.com.au/therapy-chatbot-depression-app-what-its-like-woebot-2018-1 https://news.mit.edu/2008/obit-weizenbaum-0310

From tales of historical idiocracy and scientific genius to weird and wacky cultural phenomena, Dr Rod Lamberts and Dr Will Grant are here to take you on a wild conversational journey, deep diving into the crevices of science, history and culture that you never knew existed. 

From tales of historical idiocracy and scientific genius to weird and wacky cultural phenomena, Dr Rod Lamberts and Dr Will Grant are here to take you on a wild conversational journey, deep diving into the crevices of science, history and culture that you never knew existed.

Bizarre science history from academics with beers

A Little Bit Of Science

Chatbots are everywhere these days - your bank, y…

A History and Future of Chatbots!

A relaxing trip to Japan turns into an accidental run down a double black diamond, a mathematician solves “impossible” problems because nobody told him they were impossible, and missing scientists get pulled into UFO flavoured rumours. This week, Will and Rod bounce between snowboarding psychology, statistical legend, conspiracy culture, and the strange ways expectations shape what we think we can do.

We start on the slopes, where fear is sometimes just signage, then jump to George Dantzig, who solved famous unsolved statistics problems after mistaking them for homework. Same theme, different setting: not knowing the odds can be a weird kind of advantage.

Then things get darker with disappearances, military secrecy, and the internet’s favourite genre, plus a look at the gluten conundrum and why non coeliac gluten sensitivity is still messy science. Bodies are complicated, and belief can play a bigger role than people like to admit.

Finally, we head to the Marshall Islands, where a concrete dome covering radioactive waste from US nuclear testing sits in the Pacific like a “temporary” fix that has to survive storms, rising seas, and time.

CHAPTER MARKERS

00:00 Science Snack Intro

00:43 Snowboarding The Hard Way

02:48 Expectations And Limits

03:16 Dantzig And The Simplex

06:02 Accidental Unsolved Problems

09:26 Never Tell Me The Odds

10:04 Missing General UFO Links

12:52 List Of Scientist Cases

16:28 Politics And FBI Probe

18:07 Conspiracy Dots And Anti Gravity

21:05 Flood The Zone Meteorology Tease

22:10 Hurricanes Go Backwards

23:02 Weather Control Conspiracies

25:02 Meteorologists Under Threat

27:47 Lessons From Misinformation

28:40 Nuclear Tests In Paradise

30:34 Inside The Runit Dome

34:20 Cracks Leaks And Sea Rise

36:57 Good Gluten News

40:19 Gluten Sensitivity Reality Check

42:35 Nocebo FODMAPs And Advice

46:16 Wrap Up And Listener Callout



SOURCES:

https://futurism.com/conspiracy-meteorologists-hurricanes

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/07/marjorie-taylor-greene-hurricane-helene

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/hurricane-milton-misinformation-meteorlogist-death-threats-1235130352/

https://futurism.com/space/fbi-investigating-deaths-disappearances-top-scientists

https://futurism.com/space/another-military-ufo-guy-died

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fbi-investigating-possible-links-between-deaths-and-disappearances-of-at-least-10-scientists/

https://www.sciencealert.com/this-infamous-radioactive-tomb-is-leaking-and-experts-are-worried

https://theconversation.com/your-gluten-sensitivity-might-be-something-else-entirely-new-study-shows-267098

A relaxing trip to Japan turns into an accidental run down a double black diamond, a mathematician solves &ldquo;impossible&rdquo; problems because nobody told him they were impossible, and missing scientists get pulled into UFO flavoured rumours. This week, Will and Rod bounce between snowboarding psychology, statistical legend, conspiracy culture, and the strange ways expectations shape what we think we can do.
We start on the slopes, where fear is sometimes just signage, then jump to George Dantzig, who solved famous unsolved statistics problems after mistaking them for homework. Same theme, different setting: not knowing the odds can be a weird kind of advantage.
Then things get darker with disappearances, military secrecy, and the internet&rsquo;s favourite genre, plus a look at the gluten conundrum and why non coeliac gluten sensitivity is still messy science. Bodies are complicated, and belief can play a bigger role than people like to admit.
Finally, we head to the Marshall Islands, where a concrete dome covering radioactive waste from US nuclear testing sits in the Pacific like a &ldquo;temporary&rdquo; fix that has to survive storms, rising seas, and time.
CHAPTER MARKERS
00:00 Science Snack Intro
00:43 Snowboarding The Hard Way
02:48 Expectations And Limits
03:16 Dantzig And The Simplex
06:02 Accidental Unsolved Problems
09:26 Never Tell Me The Odds
10:04 Missing General UFO Links
12:52 List Of Scientist Cases
16:28 Politics And FBI Probe
18:07 Conspiracy Dots And Anti Gravity
21:05 Flood The Zone Meteorology Tease
22:10 Hurricanes Go Backwards
23:02 Weather Control Conspiracies
25:02 Meteorologists Under Threat
27:47 Lessons From Misinformation
28:40 Nuclear Tests In Paradise
30:34 Inside The Runit Dome
34:20 Cracks Leaks And Sea Rise
36:57 Good Gluten News
40:19 Gluten Sensitivity Reality Check
42:35 Nocebo FODMAPs And Advice
46:16 Wrap Up And Listener Callout 
SOURCES:
<a href="https://futurism.com/conspiracy-meteorologists-hurricanes">https://futurism.com/conspiracy-meteorologists-hurricanes</a>
<a href="https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/07/marjorie-taylor-greene-hurricane-helene">https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/07/marjorie-taylor-greene-hurricane-helene</a>
<a href="https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/hurricane-milton-misinformation-meteorlogist-death-threats-1235130352/">https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/hurricane-milton-misinformation-meteorlogist-death-threats-1235130352/</a>
<a href="https://futurism.com/space/fbi-investigating-deaths-disappearances-top-scientists">https://futurism.com/space/fbi-investigating-deaths-disappearances-top-scientists</a>
<a href="https://futurism.com/space/another-military-ufo-guy-died">https://futurism.com/space/another-military-ufo-guy-died</a>
<a href="https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fbi-investigating-possible-links-between-deaths-and-disappearances-of-at-least-10-scientists/">https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fbi-investigating-possible-links-between-deaths-and-disappearances-of-at-least-10-scientists/</a>
<a href="https://www.sciencealert.com/this-infamous-radioactive-tomb-is-leaking-and-experts-are-worried">https://www.sciencealert.com/this-infamous-radioactive-tomb-is-leaking-and-experts-are-worried</a>
<a href="https://theconversation.com/your-gluten-sensitivity-might-be-something-else-entirely-new-study-shows-267098">https://theconversation.com/your-gluten-sensitivity-might-be-something-else-entirely-new-study-shows-267098</a>

Real Life Good Will Hunting, Suspicious Scientist Deaths, and The Runit Dome Is Leaking

Crystals have been fascinating humans for hundreds of thousands of years, chimpanzees might share the same shiny object obsession, and mushrooms may be sending electrical signals through their underground networks. This episode bounces between ancient archaeology, animal behaviour, and the weird possibility that fungi are doing more than just quietly existing in the forest.

We dig into evidence that early humans collected crystals long before cave paintings, then look at research showing chimps will pick crystals over plain pebbles and carry them around like prized possessions. It is either a shared cultural quirk or a shared ancestor who also could not walk past a sparkly rock without grabbing it.

Then we head to Japan, where scientists have been measuring mushroom electrical activity with electrodes to see how fungi respond to things like water and chemical signals. It is not “mushrooms are speaking English”, but it does hint at complex, responsive systems in the mycelium that we are only just starting to understand.

Finally, we get into the modern tech mess: AI powered toys like teddy bears that can be prompted into wildly inappropriate conversations, plus a brilliant detour where medieval Japanese poetry helps researchers track solar proton events using tree rings. 





CHAPTER MARKERS

00:00 Introduction

00:42 Hippie Crystal Deodorant

01:59 Ancient Crystal Obsession

05:22 Chimpanzees Love Crystals

07:43 Crystal Plinth Experiment

09:55 Crystal Hoarding And Tradeoffs

11:41 Why Crystals Allure

13:30 Do Mushrooms Signal Pee

16:38 Urine Experiment Setup

18:48 Results And Dont Pee Dont Tell

20:17 Poetry Break And Limericks

21:25 Solar Proton Events Explained

22:23 Poetry Meets Space Weather

23:46 Kyoto Aurora Clue

24:07 Trees Confirm Proton Event

25:29 Trouble in Toyland Report

27:08 AI Toys Under Test

29:01 Guardrails Fail Over Time

35:49 Addictive Design Tricks

36:28 Privacy and Always Listening

 

SOURCES:
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2026.1633599/full?ref=404media.co
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-026-42673-y
https://publicinterestnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/TOYLAND-2025-11-14-7a.pdf
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/medieval-aurora-poetry-provided-clues-to-historic-solar-storms/ 

Crystals have been fascinating humans for hundreds of thousands of years, chimpanzees might share the same shiny object obsession, and mushrooms may be sending electrical signals through their underground networks. This episode bounces between ancient archaeology, animal behaviour, and the weird possibility that fungi are doing more than just quietly existing in the forest.
We dig into evidence that early humans collected crystals long before cave paintings, then look at research showing chimps will pick crystals over plain pebbles and carry them around like prized possessions. It is either a shared cultural quirk or a shared ancestor who also could not walk past a sparkly rock without grabbing it.
Then we head to Japan, where scientists have been measuring mushroom electrical activity with electrodes to see how fungi respond to things like water and chemical signals. It is not &ldquo;mushrooms are speaking English&rdquo;, but it does hint at complex, responsive systems in the mycelium that we are only just starting to understand.
Finally, we get into the modern tech mess: AI powered toys like teddy bears that can be prompted into wildly inappropriate conversations, plus a brilliant detour where medieval Japanese poetry helps researchers track solar proton events using tree rings.&nbsp;
 
CHAPTER MARKERS
00:00 Introduction
00:42 Hippie Crystal Deodorant
01:59 Ancient Crystal Obsession
05:22 Chimpanzees Love Crystals
07:43 Crystal Plinth Experiment
09:55 Crystal Hoarding And Tradeoffs
11:41 Why Crystals Allure
13:30 Do Mushrooms Signal Pee
16:38 Urine Experiment Setup
18:48 Results And Dont Pee Dont Tell
20:17 Poetry Break And Limericks
21:25 Solar Proton Events Explained
22:23 Poetry Meets Space Weather
23:46 Kyoto Aurora Clue
24:07 Trees Confirm Proton Event
25:29 Trouble in Toyland Report
27:08 AI Toys Under Test
29:01 Guardrails Fail Over Time
35:49 Addictive Design Tricks
36:28 Privacy and Always Listening
&nbsp;
SOURCES:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2026.1633599/full?ref=404media.co">https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2026.1633599/full?ref=404media.co</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-026-42673-y">https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-026-42673-y</a></li>
<li><a href="https://publicinterestnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/TOYLAND-2025-11-14-7a.pdf">https://publicinterestnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/TOYLAND-2025-11-14-7a.pdf</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/medieval-aurora-poetry-provided-clues-to-historic-solar-storms/">https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/medieval-aurora-poetry-provided-clues-to-historic-solar-storms/</a>&nbsp;</li>
</ul>

Chimps Hoard Crystals, Talking Mushrooms and the Teddy Bear That Knows Your Kinks

Robot wolves are now being used to scare bears away from Japanese schools, scientists have grown mini Neanderthal brains and plugged them into little robots, and snakes are quietly topping the lethality leaderboard while everyone keeps blaming sharks. This week, Will and Rod bounce between wildlife deterrence, prehistoric brain tech, and a public health reality check that hits harder than any movie monster.

We start in Japan, where bears have been wandering into supermarkets and school grounds, and the solution is peak Japan: “monster robot wolves” with sensors, lights, and loud noises designed to scare bears off without harming them. They look like an 80s horror prop, but the goal is serious, keep people safe and avoid lethal control.

Then we head into the lab, where researchers have grown tiny Neanderthal brain organoids, nicknamed Neanderoids, and connected them to small crab like robots. It is fascinating, slightly unsettling, and a reminder that science will always find a way to make the past feel uncomfortably present.

Finally, we look at snakes as one of the world’s biggest killers, with India carrying a huge share of snakebite deaths, and we end with a cybersecurity story where a pen tester talked IT into handing over access on a phone call. Not ideal.

 

 

00:00 Japan Bear Surge

01:20 Meet the Hosts

02:58 Robot Wolf Deterrents

06:37 Upgrades and Risks

08:27 Neanderthal Mini Brains

12:03 Brains Wired to Robot Crabs

13:31 Fascism and Underlings

15:51 Torture Battalion Data

21:46 Animal Killers Teaser

22:35 Mosquitoes Kill Indirectly

23:30 Snakes Top the List

23:40 Floods and Snake Spikes

24:13 India Snakebite Mystery

25:07 Verbal Autopsies Explained

26:51 Antivenom Access Problem

28:22 Next Deadliest Animals Rundown

28:56 Parasites and Kissing Bugs

31:07 Elephants and Hunter Karma

33:15 Bears Sharks and Big Cats

35:06 Social Engineering Hack Story

38:40 Phone Calls Beat Security

39:05 Podcast Wrap and Callouts

 

SOURCES:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/japan-robot-wolves-high-demand-075406454.html

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/japan-built-robot-wolves-to-thwart-bear-attack-and-theyre-flying-off-the-shelves/

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(25)01533-8/abstract

https://theconversation.com/your-gluten-sensitivity-might-be-something-else-entirely-new-study-shows-267098

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/489067/snakebite-antivenom-deaths

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schistosomiasis

https://elifesciences.org/articles/54076

https://www.science.org/content/article/exclusive-neanderthal-minibrains-grown-dish

https://www.theregister.com/security/2026/05/14/to-gain-root-access-intruder-just-had-to-ask/5239853

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/18/world/americas/actually-democracy-dies-in-hr.html

Robot wolves are now being used to scare bears away from Japanese schools, scientists have grown mini Neanderthal brains and plugged them into little robots, and snakes are quietly topping the lethality leaderboard while everyone keeps blaming sharks. This week, Will and Rod bounce between wildlife deterrence, prehistoric brain tech, and a public health reality check that hits harder than any movie monster.
We start in Japan, where bears have been wandering into supermarkets and school grounds, and the solution is peak Japan: &ldquo;monster robot wolves&rdquo; with sensors, lights, and loud noises designed to scare bears off without harming them. They look like an 80s horror prop, but the goal is serious, keep people safe and avoid lethal control.
Then we head into the lab, where researchers have grown tiny Neanderthal brain organoids, nicknamed Neanderoids, and connected them to small crab like robots. It is fascinating, slightly unsettling, and a reminder that science will always find a way to make the past feel uncomfortably present.
Finally, we look at snakes as one of the world&rsquo;s biggest killers, with India carrying a huge share of snakebite deaths, and we end with a cybersecurity story where a pen tester talked IT into handing over access on a phone call. Not ideal.
&nbsp;
&nbsp;
00:00 Japan Bear Surge
01:20 Meet the Hosts
02:58 Robot Wolf Deterrents
06:37 Upgrades and Risks
08:27 Neanderthal Mini Brains
12:03 Brains Wired to Robot Crabs
13:31 Fascism and Underlings
15:51 Torture Battalion Data
21:46 Animal Killers Teaser
22:35 Mosquitoes Kill Indirectly
23:30 Snakes Top the List
23:40 Floods and Snake Spikes
24:13 India Snakebite Mystery
25:07 Verbal Autopsies Explained
26:51 Antivenom Access Problem
28:22 Next Deadliest Animals Rundown
28:56 Parasites and Kissing Bugs
31:07 Elephants and Hunter Karma
33:15 Bears Sharks and Big Cats
35:06 Social Engineering Hack Story
38:40 Phone Calls Beat Security
39:05 Podcast Wrap and Callouts
&nbsp;
SOURCES:
<a href="https://uk.news.yahoo.com/japan-robot-wolves-high-demand-075406454.html">https://uk.news.yahoo.com/japan-robot-wolves-high-demand-075406454.html</a>
<a href="https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/japan-built-robot-wolves-to-thwart-bear-attack-and-theyre-flying-off-the-shelves/">https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/japan-built-robot-wolves-to-thwart-bear-attack-and-theyre-flying-off-the-shelves/</a>
<a href="https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(25)01533-8/abstract">https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(25)01533-8/abstract</a>
<a href="https://theconversation.com/your-gluten-sensitivity-might-be-something-else-entirely-new-study-shows-267098">https://theconversation.com/your-gluten-sensitivity-might-be-something-else-entirely-new-study-shows-267098</a>
<a href="https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/489067/snakebite-antivenom-deaths">https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/489067/snakebite-antivenom-deaths</a>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schistosomiasis">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schistosomiasis</a>
<a href="https://elifesciences.org/articles/54076">https://elifesciences.org/articles/54076</a>
https://www.science.org/content/article/exclusive-neanderthal-minibrains-grown-dish
https://www.theregister.com/security/2026/05/14/to-gain-root-access-intruder-just-had-to-ask/5239853
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/18/world/americas/actually-democracy-dies-in-hr.html

A History and Future of Chatbots!

In 1 playlist(s)

A Little Bit Of Science

Social links

Follow podcast

Recent clips