Introductions and welcome

Julie and the ups and downs of City Council

Bob Hathcock joins the fight to recall her

Bob and Julie meet face to face

The campaign turns ugly

Election night and the aftermath

From recall to a standing ovation

Bob and Julie put the campaign behind them

Moni and April unpack the lessons

Closing and credits

How do you fight hard against someone *and* still care for them?

In Republican Mesa, Arizona, Julie Spilsbury was known for her council seat and her cinnamon rolls. When she endorsed Democrats, friends and neighbors who’d known her for decades launched a historic effort to kick her out of office. The man leading it did what few others would: sit down with her and talk.

In this special episode of A Braver Way, Moni brings you a powerful story from Dispatches from the Divide, a limited podcast series she hosts about ordinary people who make extraordinary choices. Then, she and April Lawson pull out four strategies for anyone navigating pain and conflict this midterm election season — from staying in a community that hurt you to getting close to the people you defeat.

Show notes with credits and full transcript can be found here: https://www.reclaimcuriosity.com/post/a-braver-way-episode-30

Dispatches from the Divide is a co-production of BYUradio, Disagree Better and Braver Angels. You can find the rest of the episodes of this series here: https://www.byuradio.org/dispatches-from-the-divide/episodes

How do you fight hard against someone *and* still care for them?
In Republican Mesa, Arizona, Julie Spilsbury was known for her council seat and her cinnamon rolls. When she endorsed Democrats, friends and neighbors who&rsquo;d known her for decades launched a historic effort to kick her out of office. The man leading it did what few others would: sit down with her and talk.
In this special episode of A Braver Way, Moni brings you a powerful story from Dispatches from the Divide, a limited podcast series she hosts about ordinary people who make extraordinary choices. Then, she and April Lawson pull out four strategies for anyone navigating pain and conflict this midterm election season &mdash; from staying in a community that hurt you to getting close to the people you defeat.
Show notes with credits and full transcript can be found here: <a href="https://www.reclaimcuriosity.com/post/a-braver-way-episode-30">https://www.reclaimcuriosity.com/post/a-braver-way-episode-30</a>
Dispatches from the Divide is a co-production of BYUradio, Disagree Better and Braver Angels. You can find the rest of the episodes of this series here: https://www.byuradio.org/dispatches-from-the-divide/episodes

They betrayed you. Now what?

Becoming American: We the people

Centering the good and our civic duty

Small r republicanism and dangers of passivity

Acting together when we don’t think alike

Why tone matters and it’s not to be nice

Is foreboding doom an American constant?

Lightning Round

If the founders saw America today

What do we owe each other when we can’t stand each other?

Recorded live at the Braver Angels Convention 2026 — in front of 1,000 people split evenly between red and blue — this episode brings that key question to a renowned civic scholar whose work gives Moni the most hope. Yuval Levin of the American Enterprise Institute has a surprising answer to what's really threatening the country — and it isn't division. It’s passivity: treating ourselves as spectators instead of citizens. Together, he and Mónica dig into why conflict is our solution rather than our problem, what it actually means to be "responsible" for a country, and — because Levin can't resist a good historical tangent — which founding father would love America today, and which one would be horrified.

Guest: Yuval Levin, director of Social, Cultural, and Constitutional Studies at the American Enterprise Institute

Show notes with credits and full transcript can be found here: https://www.reclaimcuriosity.com/post/a-braver-way-episode-29

What do we owe each other when we can&rsquo;t stand each other?
Recorded live at the Braver Angels Convention 2026 &mdash; in front of 1,000 people split evenly between red and blue &mdash; this episode brings that key question to a renowned civic scholar whose work gives Moni the most hope. Yuval Levin of the American Enterprise Institute has a surprising answer to what's really threatening the country &mdash; and it isn't division. It&rsquo;s passivity: treating ourselves as spectators instead of citizens. Together, he and M&oacute;nica dig into why conflict is our solution rather than our problem, what it actually means to be "responsible" for a country, and &mdash; because Levin can't resist a good historical tangent &mdash; which founding father would love America today, and which one would be horrified.
Guest: Yuval Levin, director of Social, Cultural, and Constitutional Studies at the American Enterprise Institute
Show notes with credits and full transcript can be found here: https://www.reclaimcuriosity.com/post/a-braver-way-episode-29

Division isn't the danger. Here's the fix. | Yuval Levin LIVE

Have your parents ever doubted Trump?

Who would be hardest for you to talk to?

Staying curious without being overwhelmed

Was our nation's founding a bridging failure?

How do you help someone see their ‘privilege’?

When she says her views aren't your business

Does compromise make you a moderate?

What keeps Moni up at night?

Why is infighting with allies so hard?

What got Monica into bridgebuilding work?

Talking to neighbors on the other side

Closing thoughts and how to reach us

What do you do when someone on your own side lets you down — or a family member says their politics are “none of your business”? In our second mailbox episode, Mónica and producer Jessica Jones tackle listener questions about whether America’s founding was a failure to bridge, how to recognize our own blind spots, and what Mónica’s parents really think of President Trump. Plus, April Lawson joins in with advice for approaching a firmly closed door. Want to send us your question? Email abraverway@reclaimcuriosity.com!

Show notes with full credits, reference links and transcript can be found here: https://www.reclaimcuriosity.com/post/a-braver-way-episode-28

What do you do when someone on your own side lets you down &mdash; or a family member says their politics are &ldquo;none of your business&rdquo;? In our second mailbox episode, M&oacute;nica and producer Jessica Jones tackle listener questions about whether America&rsquo;s founding was a failure to bridge, how to recognize our own blind spots, and what M&oacute;nica&rsquo;s parents really think of President Trump. Plus, April Lawson joins in with advice for approaching a firmly closed door. Want to send us your question? Email <a href="mailto:abraverway@reclaimcuriosity.com">abraverway@reclaimcuriosity.com</a>!
Show notes with full credits, reference links and transcript can be found here: https://www.reclaimcuriosity.com/post/a-braver-way-episode-28

Mailbox: Your questions on Trump, ‘privilege’ and compromise

Why Jamie studies political anxiety

How your heart reacts to political discussion

Can we regain agency of our physical response?

The 4D Framework of political conversation

Detection and our underlying assumptions

Weighing the social costs of speaking up

Can I soften the tendency to fight or freeze?

Social media vs. face-to-face conversations

Would findings differ in today's climate?

The hope question: reasons for optimism

Closing thoughts and credits

Researcher Jaime Settle has found that just anticipating a political conversation with someone who disagrees can send your heart rate soaring — sometimes by as much as it rises during a panic attack.

Will this damage a relationship? Will I be judged? Is it safer to hide what I believe? Those calculations happen fast, often pointing you toward the exit. So what does it take to make the riskier choice?

Jaime joins Mónica to explore what to do when your body hits the alarm, why admitting "I'm nervous about this" can lower the temperature, and how talking about the conversation before having it can make honest disagreement a whole lot easier.

This episode's guest: Jaime Settle, Department Chair and Professor of Government at William & Mary

Show notes with full credits, reference links and transcript can be found here: https://www.reclaimcuriosity.com/post/a-braver-way-episode-27

Researcher Jaime Settle has found that just anticipating a political conversation with someone who disagrees can send your heart rate soaring &mdash; sometimes by as much as it rises during a panic attack.
Will this damage a relationship? Will I be judged? Is it safer to hide what I believe? Those calculations happen fast, often pointing you toward the exit. So what does it take to make the riskier choice?
Jaime joins M&oacute;nica to explore what to do when your body hits the alarm, why admitting "I'm nervous about this" can lower the temperature, and how talking about the conversation before having it can make honest disagreement a whole lot easier.
This episode's guest: Jaime Settle, Department Chair and Professor of Government at William &amp; Mary
Show notes with full credits, reference links and transcript can be found here: https://www.reclaimcuriosity.com/post/a-braver-way-episode-27

How to talk politics when your body says ‘run’

Introductions & welcome 

Ground rules for this debate episode 

Is NYC's socialist experiment a good idea?

Is it ok to pull grants from blue states?

New Jersey's voter registration cover-up

Trump, Israel, and the war with Iran

Debrief: learning and lingering questions

Closing thoughts & credits 

Moni is liberal. Travis Tripodi is conservative libertarian. Much of what he supports terrifies her… and vice versa. But when Trump returned in 2025, they knew they had to talk. In a new A Braver Way experiment, the two friends let you in on what’s become a critical exercise: bringing each other the headlines that bother them most, saying what they really believe, and having it out.

This isn’t a tidy debate or performance of “civility”. In good faith clashes over everything from socialism to political retaliation, Moni and Travis push, challenge, and *try* to listen even when they hate what they hear. Then, they debrief: Did Moni get too mad — or not mad enough? Did Travis listen, or just assume he did? And in all that heat, did they find any light? Note: This conversation was recorded on July 30.

Show notes with full credits, links and transcript can be found here: https://www.reclaimcuriosity.com/post/a-braver-way-episode-26

Moni is liberal. Travis Tripodi is conservative libertarian. Much of what he supports terrifies her&hellip; and vice versa. But when Trump returned in 2025, they knew they had to talk. In a new A Braver Way experiment, the two friends let you in on what&rsquo;s become a critical exercise: bringing each other the headlines that bother them most, saying what they really believe, and having it out.
This isn&rsquo;t a tidy debate or performance of &ldquo;civility&rdquo;. In good faith clashes over everything from socialism to political retaliation, Moni and Travis push, challenge, and *try* to listen even when they hate what they hear. Then, they debrief: Did Moni get too mad &mdash; or not mad enough? Did Travis listen, or just assume he did? And in all that heat, did they find any light?&nbsp;Note: This conversation was recorded on July 30.
Show notes with full credits, links and transcript can be found here: https://www.reclaimcuriosity.com/post/a-braver-way-episode-26

‘Explain yourself’: A Trump voter and Trump critic let you in

Welcome & introducing producer Jessica Jones 

Is political division too big to bridge?

What nature teaches us about curiosity

Being the bridge in a divided family

Is our political identity nature or nurture?

Why Moni put an American flag on her house

When Moni lost her temper with her Dad

What changed Moni more than any book 

How to differentiate real from imaginary fear

Lightning round: hobbies & fun facts 

Closing thoughts: share your story

In this special episode, Mónica and producer Jessica Jones explore questions from curious listeners about fear, family conflict, patriotism when we’re so at odds, and the unforeseeable ways we come to believe what we believe. Also on deck: Advice to a mom caught in a political rift between father and son, what happens when Moni loses her temper, and bridging tips from Mother Nature. Want to send us *your* question? Email abraverway@reclaimcuriosity.com! 

In this special episode, M&oacute;nica and producer Jessica Jones explore questions from curious listeners about fear, family conflict, patriotism when we&rsquo;re so at odds, and the unforeseeable ways we come to believe what we believe. Also on deck: Advice to a mom caught in a political rift between father and son, what happens when Moni loses her temper, and bridging tips from Mother Nature. Want to send us *your* question? Email abraverway@reclaimcuriosity.com!&nbsp;

Mailbox: Your questions on hope, betrayal and losing your temper

The brain science behind human connection

The viral phone booth experiment

The need to study happiness

Axel's personal journey through depression

What is the biomarker for happiness?

Science behind conversations with strangers

Primitive emotions and the human brain

The science of happiness

Emotions are more contagious than viruses

Social interactions and diversity of emotions

Can emotions prevent us from seeing the truth?

Practical habits for a healthier mind

Why spreading surprise positivity is a win-win

Axel’s current research and experiments

Final reflections and goodbye

“Happiness” is the last thing many of us expect to find on a call with a stranger from the opposite political side. But when Axel Bouchon and his team placed one very unusual phone booth in deeply liberal San Francisco, California, and another in deeply conservative Abilene, Texas, that was exactly what they were hoping to spark. 

Bouchon, a neuroscientist driven to understand our strongest emotions, joins Moni to expose their power in our politics and beyond. Together they explore how emotions are far more infectious than viruses, how we humans can avoid reacting from the most primitive parts of our brains, and how disagreeing can be better for us than we think.

Show notes with full credits, links and other information can be found here: https://www.moniguzman.com/post/a-braver-way-episode-24

&ldquo;Happiness&rdquo; is the last thing many of us expect to find on a call with a stranger from the opposite political side. But when Axel Bouchon and his team placed one very unusual phone booth in deeply liberal San Francisco, California, and another in deeply conservative Abilene, Texas, that was exactly what they were hoping to spark.&nbsp;
Bouchon, a neuroscientist driven to understand our strongest emotions, joins Moni to expose their power in our politics and beyond. Together they explore how emotions are far more infectious than viruses, how we humans can avoid reacting from the most primitive parts of our brains, and how disagreeing can be better for us than we think.
Show notes with full credits, links and other information can be found here: https://www.moniguzman.com/post/a-braver-way-episode-24

Can political disagreement make you happier?

Intro: A story of love across deep divides

Why Sharon & Anne Marie are sharing

Growing up in an unusual family

How faith and life experiences shaped them

A family in crisis

“I never once questioned whether they love me”

Breakfast conversations to cross the divide

Learning another level of love

Accepting a gift while rejecting a worldview

Building the capacity to talk about anything

Reflections and lessons that offer hope

Conclusion: Thank you and good bye

Anne Marie Denman was the “angel” of the family: obedient, attentive, with plans to become a nun. When she came out as gay to her conservative Catholic parents, a deep rupture drove them apart.

How do you stay close to people who won’t share your worldview? Can love exist while someone feels rejected? And can you invest in the relationship without condoning the other’s convictions? These are some of the questions Anne Marie and her mother, Sharon, wrestled with over the years, as they fought to protect a connection that was threatened by their differences.

Mother and daughter join Mónica for an intimate and vulnerable conversation about the ups and downs of that journey — and what it takes to stay connected without demanding agreement.

Show notes with full credits, links and other information can be found here: https://www.reclaimcuriosity.com/post/a-braver-way-episode-23

Anne Marie Denman was the &ldquo;angel&rdquo; of the family: obedient, attentive, with plans to become a nun. When she came out as gay to her conservative Catholic parents, a deep rupture drove them apart.
How do you stay close to people who won&rsquo;t share your worldview? Can love exist while someone feels rejected? And can you invest in the relationship without condoning the other&rsquo;s convictions? These are some of the questions Anne Marie and her mother, Sharon, wrestled with over the years, as they fought to protect a connection that was threatened by their differences.
Mother and daughter join M&oacute;nica for an intimate and vulnerable conversation about the ups and downs of that journey &mdash; and what it takes to stay connected without demanding agreement.
Show notes with full credits, links and other information can be found here: <a href="https://www.reclaimcuriosity.com/post/a-braver-way-episode-24">https://www.reclaimcuriosity.com/post/a-braver-way-episode-23</a>

‘Can you love me if you don't accept who I love?’

For most of human history, offensive speech was equal to violence, and saying the wrong thing could get your tongue chopped off. Today, we aim to use words instead of violence. But what do you do when those words really hurt?

This week on A Braver Way, Moni sits down with Greg Lukianoff, who she fondly calls “the free speech guy.” Greg is an attorney, author and president of the mighty Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE). Together, they explore the complicated relationship between speech and safety, and how what we let ourselves say determines how we let ourselves live.

For most of human history, offensive speech was equal to violence, and saying the wrong thing could get your tongue chopped off. Today, we aim to use words instead of violence. But what do you do when those words really hurt?
This week on&nbsp;A Braver Way, Moni sits down with Greg Lukianoff, who she fondly calls &ldquo;the free speech guy.&rdquo; Greg is an attorney, author and president of the mighty Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE). Together, they explore the complicated relationship between speech and safety, and how what we let ourselves say determines how we let ourselves live.

How to let people offend you

With political tensions at a new peak, the pressure to take a stand — or keep the peace — can be intense. But how do you know the difference between the move that feels right and the one that is right?

In our first episode after a long break, Mónica, a liberal, talks with her conservative friend and fellow bridge builder April Lawson about what it takes to know what’s truly yours to do at this moment. Drawing on ideas from people who’ve seen the best and worst of humanity, along with their own struggles to navigate what feels like an increasingly scary world, Moni and April explore how to step out of the heat long enough to ask: 
How do I avoid using "peacemaking" as a cover for a lack of courage?
What's the line between humanizing someone … and enabling them? 
When it comes to division in my community, my family, and my country: What will I wish I had done when my grandchildren ask what I did?

With political tensions at a new peak, the pressure to take a stand &mdash; or keep the peace &mdash; can be intense. But how do you know the difference between the move that feels right and the one that is right?
In our first episode after a long break, M&oacute;nica, a liberal, talks with her conservative friend and fellow bridge builder April Lawson about what it takes to know what&rsquo;s truly yours to do at this moment. Drawing on ideas from people who&rsquo;ve seen the best and worst of humanity, along with their own struggles to navigate what feels like an increasingly scary world, Moni and April explore how to step out of the heat long enough to ask:&nbsp;
<ul>
<li aria-level="1">How do I avoid using "peacemaking" as a cover for a lack of courage?</li>
<li aria-level="1">What's the line between humanizing someone &hellip; and enabling them?&nbsp;</li>
<li aria-level="1">When it comes to division in my community, my family, and my country: What will I wish I had done when my grandchildren ask what I did?</li>
</ul>

Speak out or work it out: What's yours to do right now?

With political tensions at a new peak, it can be tough — and exhausting — to find a way forward. So what does it take to stay strong, engaged, and grounded in dangerously divided times?

In each episode, host Mónica Guzmán joins guests from across the political spectrum. Together they’ll share tools, insights, and messy real-life stories to help you navigate the challenging divides in your everyday life without losing heart.

With political tensions at a new peak, it can be tough &mdash; and exhausting &mdash; to find a way forward. So what does it take to stay strong, engaged, and grounded in dangerously divided times?
In each episode, host M&oacute;nica Guzm&aacute;n joins guests from across the political spectrum. Together they&rsquo;ll share tools, insights, and messy real-life stories to help you navigate the challenging divides in your everyday life without losing heart.

A Braver Way

A Braver Way with Mónica Guzmán

A Braver Way with Mónica Guzmán

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