They say that with age comes wisdom, but there is a lot to learn from our young generations too. That's why I invited Elizabeth English to share what she's learning. She is the head of school at the Archer School for Girls, one of the most forward thinking schools in the country. Archer is constantly experimenting with new and better ways to teach, as well as how to equip young people with the interpersonal skills they need to thrive as adults. I ask Miss English to share her thoughts on the problems facing parents today, boundary setting, why kids need and thrive from rules, phone addictions, and how her students make her hopeful for the future. This is a bit of optimism. I'm very, very excited to have you here. You and I met, actually met many years ago because a parent whose kids went to Archer School invited me to come, and I talked to the upper school and got a tour of the school and met you all those years ago, right, and here we are now, all these years later. So thank you so much for coming. You have a unique insight. Politicians and parents and speeches at birthdays, they always say you are the future, you know whatever that means, And you actually have probably more insight about what the future could look like with this young generation in your case of girls coming through the school system, are you confident making any predictions about what the future of leadership could look like as you look through the lens of the students you have? Now?

They say that with age comes wisdom, but there is a lot to learn from our young generations too. That's why I invited Elizabeth English to share what she's learning. She is the head of school at the Archer School for Girls, one of the most forward thinking schools in the country. Archer is constantly experimenting with new and better ways to teach, as well as how to equip young people with the interpersonal skills they need to thrive as adults. I ask Miss English to share her thoughts on the problems facing parents today, boundary setting, why kids need and thrive from rules, phone addictions, and how her students make her hopeful for the future. This is a bit of optimism. I'm very, very excited to have you here. You and I met, actually met many years ago because a parent whose kids went to Archer School invited me to come, and I talked to the upper school and got a tour of the school and met you all those years ago, right, and here we are now, all these years later. So thank you so much for coming. You have a unique insight. Politicians and parents and speeches at birthdays, they always say you are the future, you know whatever that means, And you actually have probably more insight about what the future could look like with this young generation in your case of girls coming through the school system, are you confident making any predictions about what the future of leadership could look like as you look through the lens of the students you have? Now?

Yes, actually I am confident.

Yes, actually I am confident.

Okay, Now I'm curious.

Okay, Now I'm curious.

Our students, teenagers in particular, are so acutely aware of the failures that they see in those who are quote unquote leading. They understand stand what's happening. They are so much more sophisticated than we give them credit for, and somehow they remain hopeful about their ability to make an impact. I think we not only have a generation of kids who are injured by what's happening. They're burdened, but they're all so angry and it's powerful, and they're determined to do something with that anger. They understand that they don't really have a choice. They can be disaffected and give up, but that's not what they're choosing. That's not what I see them choosing. Our kids are so mindful of all of these things, including screen addiction and climate change and gun violence and political dysfunction. The fact that they can continue to be mindful. I am hopeful.

Our students, teenagers in particular, are so acutely aware of the failures that they see in those who are quote unquote leading. They understand stand what's happening. They are so much more sophisticated than we give them credit for, and somehow they remain hopeful about their ability to make an impact. I think we not only have a generation of kids who are injured by what's happening. They're burdened, but they're all so angry and it's powerful, and they're determined to do something with that anger. They understand that they don't really have a choice. They can be disaffected and give up, but that's not what they're choosing. That's not what I see them choosing. Our kids are so mindful of all of these things, including screen addiction and climate change and gun violence and political dysfunction. The fact that they can continue to be mindful. I am hopeful.

Let's delve into a few things there. You say they're injured, describe their injuries.

Let's delve into a few things there. You say they're injured, describe their injuries.

Psychic injuries.

Psychic injuries.

They just stress burden, Yeah, burden.

They just stress burden, Yeah, burden.

It's just they It's two things. One as a world we are facing and as a country, I'll narrow it down, we are facing an existential crisis, whether you're talking about the environment, whether you're talking about political tribalism or other types of tribalism, or just lack of leadership. Maybe in another time these students would not have been as conscious of it, but because they are switched on to their media feed, they can't get away from it. They can't get away like if their parents are talking, if your MSNBC is playing in the background, or Fox News, if.

It's just they It's two things. One as a world we are facing and as a country, I'll narrow it down, we are facing an existential crisis, whether you're talking about the environment, whether you're talking about political tribalism or other types of tribalism, or just lack of leadership. Maybe in another time these students would not have been as conscious of it, but because they are switched on to their media feed, they can't get away from it. They can't get away like if their parents are talking, if your MSNBC is playing in the background, or Fox News, if.

You're in social media and you're just doom scrolling, even if they're not people you're following. You know, this is the worst thing about social media, which is they show you things that aren't things that you're following, and you will be hit with polarizing images, images of destruction, of war, of all these things. They kind of avoid it.

You're in social media and you're just doom scrolling, even if they're not people you're following. You know, this is the worst thing about social media, which is they show you things that aren't things that you're following, and you will be hit with polarizing images, images of destruction, of war, of all these things. They kind of avoid it.

Yeah, exactly. And it's funny because another head of school sent out an alert saying all students and families must delete TikTok and Instagram or something to that effect, because of course there is this propaganda going around images of violence in Israel and Gaza, et cetera. And our take on that is like, we can't tell them to delete these things. That's their reality. Delete your reality. Now we have to do consciousness raising. We have to teach them civil discourse. We have to help them acknowledge their feelings while also managing them enough to engage in a rational way.

Yeah, exactly. And it's funny because another head of school sent out an alert saying all students and families must delete TikTok and Instagram or something to that effect, because of course there is this propaganda going around images of violence in Israel and Gaza, et cetera. And our take on that is like, we can't tell them to delete these things. That's their reality. Delete your reality. Now we have to do consciousness raising. We have to teach them civil discourse. We have to help them acknowledge their feelings while also managing them enough to engage in a rational way.

Okay, I mean I don't even know where to begin. So how do you teach consciousness raising? How do you teach civil discourse? You know, they're also teenagers and that comes with the whole host of stresses and problems, of which civil discourse rarely fits into that. You know, how do you teach awareness being able to manage stresses that they have no control over, like war and far away lands. Where do you even begin?

Okay, I mean I don't even know where to begin. So how do you teach consciousness raising? How do you teach civil discourse? You know, they're also teenagers and that comes with the whole host of stresses and problems, of which civil discourse rarely fits into that. You know, how do you teach awareness being able to manage stresses that they have no control over, like war and far away lands. Where do you even begin?

You have norms of discourse that we review at the beginning of every kind of conversation, and we distinguish for example, listen on Channel two, listen actively, don't simply wait for your turn to speak. Remember that empathy is one of our core values. Remember that we can sit in a room and disagree, but there's no place for shaming, for blaming, for shutting down. And we just have a whole list of things and the kids all know what they are. I mean, I think, Simon, if you were to come in and see a group of our students actively engaged in debate over things they genuinely personally don't agree on, you would be optimistic too.

You have norms of discourse that we review at the beginning of every kind of conversation, and we distinguish for example, listen on Channel two, listen actively, don't simply wait for your turn to speak. Remember that empathy is one of our core values. Remember that we can sit in a room and disagree, but there's no place for shaming, for blaming, for shutting down. And we just have a whole list of things and the kids all know what they are. I mean, I think, Simon, if you were to come in and see a group of our students actively engaged in debate over things they genuinely personally don't agree on, you would be optimistic too.

It's funny you say that because I've been involved with some groups who are sort of education reform and education experts, you know, and they say government is a bit of the problem. Principles are a bit of the problem. You know, teachers are a bit of the problem. But the biggest problem is the parents. You know, every parent wants you to change the education system. Just don't experiment on my children. Tried it at another school and then let me know what you what you bring over or what I've heard, like principles and heads of school have attempted to ban cell phones at their school, and it's the parents who put extreme pressure and say absolutely not. You know, we have to get a hold of our kid in an emergency because the old system of calling the you know, the front of the front office, and they know exactly where your kid is. You know, doesn't work anymore for some reason. Say more about that when you say it's the parents, like say more.

It's funny you say that because I've been involved with some groups who are sort of education reform and education experts, you know, and they say government is a bit of the problem. Principles are a bit of the problem. You know, teachers are a bit of the problem. But the biggest problem is the parents. You know, every parent wants you to change the education system. Just don't experiment on my children. Tried it at another school and then let me know what you what you bring over or what I've heard, like principles and heads of school have attempted to ban cell phones at their school, and it's the parents who put extreme pressure and say absolutely not. You know, we have to get a hold of our kid in an emergency because the old system of calling the you know, the front of the front office, and they know exactly where your kid is. You know, doesn't work anymore for some reason. Say more about that when you say it's the parents, like say more.

I think that parents are genuinely worried about their kid's future, understandably, understandably, not not just not just for the socio political things that we mentioned, but also because income inequality, for example, in this country is unavoidable, undeniable. And it used to be that there was sort of a comfortable middle class. I mean, my parents never worried that I would surpass them, right, my dad was an immigrant, I had a good education. They were not worried about my future. I think today parents are genuinely and probably justifiably worried about their kid's capacity to do well. They know there's a whole generation of young people who can't afford to buy a house and can't you know, will not live at the same standard of living. And so I I am, I am empathetic, but at the same time that breeds this anxiety and desire to sort of micro manage the school and strategically plan the kid. And we see a lot of crazy stuff like sixth grade parents with college consultants, you know, and oh yeah, I just I know. I have to respectfully tell people like, well, think about the message you're sending you to your kid. You know you're not enough. We've got to strategically plan you. And it's just that people can't help themselves.

I think that parents are genuinely worried about their kid's future, understandably, understandably, not not just not just for the socio political things that we mentioned, but also because income inequality, for example, in this country is unavoidable, undeniable. And it used to be that there was sort of a comfortable middle class. I mean, my parents never worried that I would surpass them, right, my dad was an immigrant, I had a good education. They were not worried about my future. I think today parents are genuinely and probably justifiably worried about their kid's capacity to do well. They know there's a whole generation of young people who can't afford to buy a house and can't you know, will not live at the same standard of living. And so I I am, I am empathetic, but at the same time that breeds this anxiety and desire to sort of micro manage the school and strategically plan the kid. And we see a lot of crazy stuff like sixth grade parents with college consultants, you know, and oh yeah, I just I know. I have to respectfully tell people like, well, think about the message you're sending you to your kid. You know you're not enough. We've got to strategically plan you. And it's just that people can't help themselves.

There were well, okay, so we're going to talk more about the kids in a moment, But so, how do you help the.

There were well, okay, so we're going to talk more about the kids in a moment, But so, how do you help the.

Parents tons of parent education. We don't do your typical parent association meeting. Every time we bring parents onto campus, it's around educating them. It's around a topic and you engage with them. Oh yeah, yeah.

Parents tons of parent education. We don't do your typical parent association meeting. Every time we bring parents onto campus, it's around educating them. It's around a topic and you engage with them. Oh yeah, yeah.

How do you teach parents civil discourse?

How do you teach parents civil discourse?

When they disagree, We talk about it openly. We show them this is what we're teaching your kids. Oh, I say, clever, yes, And then we ask that you uphold these values at home. Help us. We're partnering. We have something called the Archer School for parents, and when they come for a college meeting, when they come for back to school day, it's all designed to educate them.

When they disagree, We talk about it openly. We show them this is what we're teaching your kids. Oh, I say, clever, yes, And then we ask that you uphold these values at home. Help us. We're partnering. We have something called the Archer School for parents, and when they come for a college meeting, when they come for back to school day, it's all designed to educate them.

If we go back in time, people got their sense of belonging from church, and they got their sense of community from the bowling league, and they actually on the weekends, had barbecues with their neighbors, and work was a place you went to get paid, just to live a life and pay your bills. And as time progressed, bowling leagues disappeared, church attendance has declined. We don't really have barbecues with our neighbors anymore, and so we're now asking our companies to fill the void. We want all our sense of community, all our sense of belonging, all our sense of purpose, our social lives community. And now the new one is and my work also has to reflect my politics all in one place, which is it's not a good thing or a bad thing, It just it is. And so are you finding the same pressure, is what I'm hearing. Are you finding the same pressure that now parents who are looking for their companies to fill it in their lives are pushing the school to provide all those things for their kids' lives.

If we go back in time, people got their sense of belonging from church, and they got their sense of community from the bowling league, and they actually on the weekends, had barbecues with their neighbors, and work was a place you went to get paid, just to live a life and pay your bills. And as time progressed, bowling leagues disappeared, church attendance has declined. We don't really have barbecues with our neighbors anymore, and so we're now asking our companies to fill the void. We want all our sense of community, all our sense of belonging, all our sense of purpose, our social lives community. And now the new one is and my work also has to reflect my politics all in one place, which is it's not a good thing or a bad thing, It just it is. And so are you finding the same pressure, is what I'm hearing. Are you finding the same pressure that now parents who are looking for their companies to fill it in their lives are pushing the school to provide all those things for their kids' lives.

Parents and employees.

Parents and employees.

Oh oh that's a true too. Yeah, yeah, you know.

Oh oh that's a true too. Yeah, yeah, you know.

I'm getting emotional as I'm listening to you because I grew up outside of Boston, and as I mentioned, my dad was an Italian immigrant. My mother didn't go to high school, My siblings didn't graduate from high school. I'm the first not only my family to go to college, but apart from my father, to graduate from high school. I had a fantastic public school education. There were social programs in my town where we had free act access to healthcare. There were summer programs where I would get to go to the Boston Museum of Fine Arts. It was all free. I'm emotional because now we're such a transient society, and I think that's where you see the disappearance of the barbecue and the bowling league, and then furthermore, I remember my dad. He was a union man and felt very taken care of by AT and T, which was his employer for forty five years. And people don't feel that sense of security either coming from their place of work or in their community. It's like the neighbor you had yesterday is moving out tomorrow. It's really destabilizing for our kids. They don't feel secure for lots of reasons, but that's one of them, and that's why we do try to provide that sense of security at school. We're happy to do that, but there's a limit to how much one institution can provide, you know, for all the folks who are affiliated with it right now?

I'm getting emotional as I'm listening to you because I grew up outside of Boston, and as I mentioned, my dad was an Italian immigrant. My mother didn't go to high school, My siblings didn't graduate from high school. I'm the first not only my family to go to college, but apart from my father, to graduate from high school. I had a fantastic public school education. There were social programs in my town where we had free act access to healthcare. There were summer programs where I would get to go to the Boston Museum of Fine Arts. It was all free. I'm emotional because now we're such a transient society, and I think that's where you see the disappearance of the barbecue and the bowling league, and then furthermore, I remember my dad. He was a union man and felt very taken care of by AT and T, which was his employer for forty five years. And people don't feel that sense of security either coming from their place of work or in their community. It's like the neighbor you had yesterday is moving out tomorrow. It's really destabilizing for our kids. They don't feel secure for lots of reasons, but that's one of them, and that's why we do try to provide that sense of security at school. We're happy to do that, but there's a limit to how much one institution can provide, you know, for all the folks who are affiliated with it right now?

Yeah. Yeah, the thing that I'm and this is where I find what your work is so interesting. The thing that I'm trying to teach to adults is how to make friends because the only stable thing that you can rely on it it's not going to be a work, and it's not going to be where you live, and it's not going to be you know, you can go down the list is make sure you really really take care of people, so that people really take care of you. And yeah, I'm very curious how, especially in a day and age where adults struggle to hold each other's attention because we pull out our phones and you know, you feel disconnected in your own home with your own partner, how are you able to manage young people who have more addictive personalities than adults. When it comes to dopamine, it requires even more dopamine for that good hit, which means they're getting more of it running through their veins. Phones and distractions and teenager noess, how are you teaching? I mean literally, what are the steps that you're using to teach kids how to rely on each other when they feel sad, angry, bad, to turn to another person, not a device, how do you teach that.

Yeah. Yeah, the thing that I'm and this is where I find what your work is so interesting. The thing that I'm trying to teach to adults is how to make friends because the only stable thing that you can rely on it it's not going to be a work, and it's not going to be where you live, and it's not going to be you know, you can go down the list is make sure you really really take care of people, so that people really take care of you. And yeah, I'm very curious how, especially in a day and age where adults struggle to hold each other's attention because we pull out our phones and you know, you feel disconnected in your own home with your own partner, how are you able to manage young people who have more addictive personalities than adults. When it comes to dopamine, it requires even more dopamine for that good hit, which means they're getting more of it running through their veins. Phones and distractions and teenager noess, how are you teaching? I mean literally, what are the steps that you're using to teach kids how to rely on each other when they feel sad, angry, bad, to turn to another person, not a device, how do you teach that.

We explicitly teach self regulation. It is to my mind, one of the most important skills that any kid can leave school.

We explicitly teach self regulation. It is to my mind, one of the most important skills that any kid can leave school.

So define self regulation first of all.

So define self regulation first of all.

Right, So, first of all, the ability to know when you are emotional.

Right, So, first of all, the ability to know when you are emotional.

I am sad, I am angry.

I am sad, I am angry.

Yes, and I'm observing it. I know this about myself. I'm not quote unquote out of my mind. I may be out of my mind, but I have enough metacognition to know, and therefore I can acknowledge it and not do harm in the midst of it.

Yes, and I'm observing it. I know this about myself. I'm not quote unquote out of my mind. I may be out of my mind, but I have enough metacognition to know, and therefore I can acknowledge it and not do harm in the midst of it.

How do you teach that?

How do you teach that?

In human development? We teach it. We have these periods in the schedule where we have a block and we'll have someone come in and talk about it. We have the older students talk about it with the younger students. We talk about addiction, opamine, screen addiction. I think it was you who said this, Simon, and I have repeated it so many times since. When you are on your phone in the midst of someone else, it's a sign of not caring about them.

In human development? We teach it. We have these periods in the schedule where we have a block and we'll have someone come in and talk about it. We have the older students talk about it with the younger students. We talk about addiction, opamine, screen addiction. I think it was you who said this, Simon, and I have repeated it so many times since. When you are on your phone in the midst of someone else, it's a sign of not caring about them.

That's true.

That's true.

When you say that, they know because they have been across from a parent, a sibling, a friend who's like an addict. That is literally what it feels like. It feels like you're in the presence of an addict. Anyway, the point is this, we teach them very very explicitly what happens to their brains and that they are in thrall to these things they know. And it's funny, like we said to them at the beginning of the year, huge push around not looking at your phones, not being in the hallways on your phones, et cetera. And we say to them, when you get stressed, when the homework starts to pile up, when the assessments start to come, do you're gonna want to pick up that phone more than ever. Right, So we're going to check in with you. We're going to have phone free from you. Got to give them practice. They don't even know what a quiet mind is.

When you say that, they know because they have been across from a parent, a sibling, a friend who's like an addict. That is literally what it feels like. It feels like you're in the presence of an addict. Anyway, the point is this, we teach them very very explicitly what happens to their brains and that they are in thrall to these things they know. And it's funny, like we said to them at the beginning of the year, huge push around not looking at your phones, not being in the hallways on your phones, et cetera. And we say to them, when you get stressed, when the homework starts to pile up, when the assessments start to come, do you're gonna want to pick up that phone more than ever. Right, So we're going to check in with you. We're going to have phone free from you. Got to give them practice. They don't even know what a quiet mind is.

I talked to some parents not too long ago who were struggling with their fourteen year old boy who had so much social anxiety and so much phone addiction that when the doorbell rang, he couldn't answer the door in case there was a person there. The family was very concerned, and they tried many things to get the kids off the phones, and they just they couldn't they sort they couldn't do it, and so what they decided to do is they went on vacation and they took one phone for the family. You know, one of the parents brought their phone, and the kids were forced to leave their phones at home, which that didn't go well. They said, the first two or three days of the vacation were absolutely awful, and there was complaining and there was why did you take my phone? And then after about three or four days, it settled and they connected and they talked, and they joked, and they sang songs and they looked out the window, and they said it was the single best vacation they've ever had in their lives because they went, I mean obviously, because they went as a family, not as me talking to the person who's back home, you know while I'm away. The things that you're talking about. One of the things you talked about there was that you have these phone free fridays and you have these outbounds. These are things that parents can do for their kids without a school. These are things that we can do with the people we love. These are things that we can do at work. You can have no phones and conference rooms like we can do these things. Yeah, And I think what's so interesting is you're building practices and structure as opposed to just shaming, like we don't offer help to people, Like I think we all know it's bad, and yet we're all still doing it. What other practices are you offering structure? Because I know you're a great believer in structure and rules to help people learn.

I talked to some parents not too long ago who were struggling with their fourteen year old boy who had so much social anxiety and so much phone addiction that when the doorbell rang, he couldn't answer the door in case there was a person there. The family was very concerned, and they tried many things to get the kids off the phones, and they just they couldn't they sort they couldn't do it, and so what they decided to do is they went on vacation and they took one phone for the family. You know, one of the parents brought their phone, and the kids were forced to leave their phones at home, which that didn't go well. They said, the first two or three days of the vacation were absolutely awful, and there was complaining and there was why did you take my phone? And then after about three or four days, it settled and they connected and they talked, and they joked, and they sang songs and they looked out the window, and they said it was the single best vacation they've ever had in their lives because they went, I mean obviously, because they went as a family, not as me talking to the person who's back home, you know while I'm away. The things that you're talking about. One of the things you talked about there was that you have these phone free fridays and you have these outbounds. These are things that parents can do for their kids without a school. These are things that we can do with the people we love. These are things that we can do at work. You can have no phones and conference rooms like we can do these things. Yeah, And I think what's so interesting is you're building practices and structure as opposed to just shaming, like we don't offer help to people, Like I think we all know it's bad, and yet we're all still doing it. What other practices are you offering structure? Because I know you're a great believer in structure and rules to help people learn.

Yeah, well, okay, first of all is consciousness raising. Second of all, teaching of skills, like what do you do to help yourself? Parents? What do you do to help your kid? But also like boundaries people, you know, like it's hard for our parents to parent. Oftentimes they really want to be friendly with their kids kids. They don't want the conflict. They're tired, they're working hard to get ahead. And I just said to our parents, like, your kids need you to be the parent, and they need boundaries. That's what helps them feel safe. So a lot of what we do is coach parents to feel okay about being the parent, and we bring them together in these circles where parents of older students will literally like coach younger parents.

Yeah, well, okay, first of all is consciousness raising. Second of all, teaching of skills, like what do you do to help yourself? Parents? What do you do to help your kid? But also like boundaries people, you know, like it's hard for our parents to parent. Oftentimes they really want to be friendly with their kids kids. They don't want the conflict. They're tired, they're working hard to get ahead. And I just said to our parents, like, your kids need you to be the parent, and they need boundaries. That's what helps them feel safe. So a lot of what we do is coach parents to feel okay about being the parent, and we bring them together in these circles where parents of older students will literally like coach younger parents.

You know, so many similarities to what you're attempting to do in the school with parents and students as I see in the corporate world with leaders and the folks who work with them, where they're responsible for them. And I definitely made this mistake as a young leader myself, which is I wanted to be the best leader, and I was going to be friends with my one direct report and with my first leadership position. And then I asked her to do something and she basically said no. And I didn't know what to do because I'd made the mistake of making her my friend. And so the boundaries of the fact that I'm responsible to getting this work and I need your help to get this work done became blurred and difficult to enforce. If a parent's not supposed to be friends with their kids or the friend, what is the analogy? What are they supposed to be Like when you say they're supposed to be the parent, I get that, But what does that mean? Some parents over index unfriend so they struggle to enforce rules or protocols or decorum or you know, go down the list.

You know, so many similarities to what you're attempting to do in the school with parents and students as I see in the corporate world with leaders and the folks who work with them, where they're responsible for them. And I definitely made this mistake as a young leader myself, which is I wanted to be the best leader, and I was going to be friends with my one direct report and with my first leadership position. And then I asked her to do something and she basically said no. And I didn't know what to do because I'd made the mistake of making her my friend. And so the boundaries of the fact that I'm responsible to getting this work and I need your help to get this work done became blurred and difficult to enforce. If a parent's not supposed to be friends with their kids or the friend, what is the analogy? What are they supposed to be Like when you say they're supposed to be the parent, I get that, But what does that mean? Some parents over index unfriend so they struggle to enforce rules or protocols or decorum or you know, go down the list.

Well start with why, I mean, like, what are your values as a family? Yeah, you know, even when parents don't think their kids are listening to them, they absolutely are, especially when it comes to the values. I've heard my kids say so many times, like I just don't do things like that, Like I just don't treat people like that. Or here's a perfect example, like you're in a grocery line and the cashier gives you twenty dollars too much back and you see it and you notice it, and my kids will be like, you give it back because that's going to come back on that person who's probably making minimum ways, Like, we don't do things like that. And so the first thing I would say to parents is like, make your values clear. That's good, like being present and having real friendships and being connected and putting your own need to be on that phone second to the person who's in your presence, Like that's a value we have. Yeah, and you can go right down the list. Not every family's going to have the same set of values, but be clear about them.

Well start with why, I mean, like, what are your values as a family? Yeah, you know, even when parents don't think their kids are listening to them, they absolutely are, especially when it comes to the values. I've heard my kids say so many times, like I just don't do things like that, Like I just don't treat people like that. Or here's a perfect example, like you're in a grocery line and the cashier gives you twenty dollars too much back and you see it and you notice it, and my kids will be like, you give it back because that's going to come back on that person who's probably making minimum ways, Like, we don't do things like that. And so the first thing I would say to parents is like, make your values clear. That's good, like being present and having real friendships and being connected and putting your own need to be on that phone second to the person who's in your presence, Like that's a value we have. Yeah, and you can go right down the list. Not every family's going to have the same set of values, but be clear about them.

One of the other things that I don't know if you seeing this trend younger kids, but I'm starting to see in young kids entering the workforce is that there's a lot of talk about boundaries and the expectation that work reflects their boundaries. You know, the boundaries that they've said of how they like their boundaries, but they don't seem to yeah, obey other people's boundaries. Do you see that as well? Which is a demand for respect for my boundaries. But I'm not even asking what your boundaries are.

One of the other things that I don't know if you seeing this trend younger kids, but I'm starting to see in young kids entering the workforce is that there's a lot of talk about boundaries and the expectation that work reflects their boundaries. You know, the boundaries that they've said of how they like their boundaries, but they don't seem to yeah, obey other people's boundaries. Do you see that as well? Which is a demand for respect for my boundaries. But I'm not even asking what your boundaries are.

There used to be an understanding that, you know, there are the needs of the individual and the needs of the community, and you know, as you became an adult, became aware of that, like I can't do whatever I want because there are other people relying on me, or because there are rules, you know. And it was fascinating. I was sitting on a panel with someone who ran daycare chain and she was saying how attentive they were to the needs and emotions of the little kids. And she said, for example, if a four year old doesn't want to wash her hands after we come in from playing outside, we ask her, when do you think you'll you'll be ready to wash your hands? When will you feel okay washing your hands? And of course I'm sitting there like the old lady on the panel and like steam is coming out of my ears, and I was like, wait, wait a minute, it's four, the kids of four, and there's a reason we wash our hands, and there are other kids there, wash your hands. It's time to wash your hands. It's a directive.

There used to be an understanding that, you know, there are the needs of the individual and the needs of the community, and you know, as you became an adult, became aware of that, like I can't do whatever I want because there are other people relying on me, or because there are rules, you know. And it was fascinating. I was sitting on a panel with someone who ran daycare chain and she was saying how attentive they were to the needs and emotions of the little kids. And she said, for example, if a four year old doesn't want to wash her hands after we come in from playing outside, we ask her, when do you think you'll you'll be ready to wash your hands? When will you feel okay washing your hands? And of course I'm sitting there like the old lady on the panel and like steam is coming out of my ears, and I was like, wait, wait a minute, it's four, the kids of four, and there's a reason we wash our hands, and there are other kids there, wash your hands. It's time to wash your hands. It's a directive.

As a non parent, I hear all the parenting tropes around me. Yeah, and I keep hearing that kids needs structure. So what is the downside? And I know this is the opposite, right, but A why do kids need structure? And B what's the downside of asking the kid if they want to sit down or wash their hands? What are the ripples that this kid will then suffer in later life as a result of you know who cares? Let them choose when they want to wash their hands.

As a non parent, I hear all the parenting tropes around me. Yeah, and I keep hearing that kids needs structure. So what is the downside? And I know this is the opposite, right, but A why do kids need structure? And B what's the downside of asking the kid if they want to sit down or wash their hands? What are the ripples that this kid will then suffer in later life as a result of you know who cares? Let them choose when they want to wash their hands.

With My needs and feelings are always primary. Yeah, my boundaries are primary. Work boundaries are not consequential. They don't matter as much as my needs and boundaries. So it's when I think you were.

With My needs and feelings are always primary. Yeah, my boundaries are primary. Work boundaries are not consequential. They don't matter as much as my needs and boundaries. So it's when I think you were.

So let me say it back clear, which is by giving young kids so many options at such an early age, they forget that there are other people in the world. They forget that they don't get to decide everything all the time based on just them.

So let me say it back clear, which is by giving young kids so many options at such an early age, they forget that there are other people in the world. They forget that they don't get to decide everything all the time based on just them.

Yeah. I mean, sometimes things aren't a choice. And what I find disingenuous about all the questions asking is the parents don't actually mean it as a question. Yeah, so it's confusing for kids, I.

Yeah. I mean, sometimes things aren't a choice. And what I find disingenuous about all the questions asking is the parents don't actually mean it as a question. Yeah, so it's confusing for kids, I.

See, and in some sense, by being black and white about what the rules are, they're learning the values. Yes, thank you, because without being black and white, the values and norms of behavior and social behavior become very fuzzy. Yes, which when you grow up and then enter life, you can have serious problems because you don't have choices. If there's a deadline to get some work done, you don't get to change the deadline because you just don't feel like working, right, we don't feel like coming to work.

See, and in some sense, by being black and white about what the rules are, they're learning the values. Yes, thank you, because without being black and white, the values and norms of behavior and social behavior become very fuzzy. Yes, which when you grow up and then enter life, you can have serious problems because you don't have choices. If there's a deadline to get some work done, you don't get to change the deadline because you just don't feel like working, right, we don't feel like coming to work.

And like most things, it's complicated. There's always discernment, Like we believe that kids do need choices, but as adults, it's our job to discern what they can make choices about and what they can't make choices about. It's a human need to make choices, but it's also a human need to live in a safe, civil society.

And like most things, it's complicated. There's always discernment, Like we believe that kids do need choices, but as adults, it's our job to discern what they can make choices about and what they can't make choices about. It's a human need to make choices, but it's also a human need to live in a safe, civil society.

This conversations causing me stressed.

This conversations causing me stressed.

I know it's complicated.

I know it's complicated.

I think that's what you're touching on, which is the realization that you will learn this lesson the easy way or the hard way, that you live in the world with other people. And this is why this is stressful though, why this is so stressful is because then it immediately leaks into conversations about mental health that if somebody feels stress about something, that the boundary I am putting up is to protect my mental health, and by you overstepping my boundary, you are now not considered of my mental health. And these notions of what do I prefer to call mental fitness, because mental health sounds like a standard that if you don't reach there, you somehow a failure, where mental fitness is something you should always be working on. But now these things are becoming blurred because there are boundaries that involve someone's mental fitness, in someone's mental health, and there are real cases of social anxieties, but not all discomfort is a social anxiety or mental health correct issue. And sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do, and sometimes we have to do things that are uncomfortable, and sometimes we have to like, oh, I don't really want to do this, but I have to do this. And then there are actually genuine times where you are mentally depleted and you can hunt and you do get to raise your hand and say I need help. I can't do this. But those boundaries ironically have been so blurred that I don't know anymore, and parents and teachers and companies are so afraid to offer anything other than just like that parent saying, is it okay if you come to work today? Are you comfortable coming to work today? Are you okay? Like that? Now, the way you're describing the way parents talk to a four year old has now almost become somewhat normalized in the workforce, not because we agree with it. It's because everybody's so scared of doing the wrong thing and hurting somebody who is actually struggling.

I think that's what you're touching on, which is the realization that you will learn this lesson the easy way or the hard way, that you live in the world with other people. And this is why this is stressful though, why this is so stressful is because then it immediately leaks into conversations about mental health that if somebody feels stress about something, that the boundary I am putting up is to protect my mental health, and by you overstepping my boundary, you are now not considered of my mental health. And these notions of what do I prefer to call mental fitness, because mental health sounds like a standard that if you don't reach there, you somehow a failure, where mental fitness is something you should always be working on. But now these things are becoming blurred because there are boundaries that involve someone's mental fitness, in someone's mental health, and there are real cases of social anxieties, but not all discomfort is a social anxiety or mental health correct issue. And sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do, and sometimes we have to do things that are uncomfortable, and sometimes we have to like, oh, I don't really want to do this, but I have to do this. And then there are actually genuine times where you are mentally depleted and you can hunt and you do get to raise your hand and say I need help. I can't do this. But those boundaries ironically have been so blurred that I don't know anymore, and parents and teachers and companies are so afraid to offer anything other than just like that parent saying, is it okay if you come to work today? Are you comfortable coming to work today? Are you okay? Like that? Now, the way you're describing the way parents talk to a four year old has now almost become somewhat normalized in the workforce, not because we agree with it. It's because everybody's so scared of doing the wrong thing and hurting somebody who is actually struggling.

Right, if we're creeping into Jonathan height territory, right, And.

Right, if we're creeping into Jonathan height territory, right, And.

This is why I'm so stressed because I don't know.

This is why I'm so stressed because I don't know.

Yeah, I'm not stressed. I'm not stressed because again it comes to discernment, who are the adults in the room. Can I say a bad word?

Yeah, I'm not stressed. I'm not stressed because again it comes to discernment, who are the adults in the room. Can I say a bad word?

You can say many bads.

You can say many bads.

I called bullshit on a lot of this stuff, because I think sometimes some of this gets weaponized. And so absolutely, do we have kids and teachers who may be suffering mentally and emotionally that we need to support, Yes, but it can very easily get weaponized, as you're saying, And this is this concept or scope creep around what safety is and it's hard for me.

I called bullshit on a lot of this stuff, because I think sometimes some of this gets weaponized. And so absolutely, do we have kids and teachers who may be suffering mentally and emotionally that we need to support, Yes, but it can very easily get weaponized, as you're saying, And this is this concept or scope creep around what safety is and it's hard for me.

I mean again, their overlaps are thick. You know. I talk about the paradox of being human, which is every moment of every day, we are both individuals and members of groups. You are you, but you are also a member of a team, a school, a community, a church, a neighborhood, a family, a friend group. And there's the debate, do I put myself first at the expense of the group or do I put the group first to the expense of me. And there's a whole school of thought that believes one and a whole school of thought that believes the other, and the answers you're both right and you're both wrong. It is a paradox, which is you have to manage both simultaneously, and it is complicated, and sometimes we er too far one way and sometimes we are too far the other way. But it is something we manage our lives. And I think the pendulum has seemed to have swung towards one side, which is you put yourself first at the expense of the group. But then what ends up happening is the group suffers. And we see that, we see fractured community, and we see that we can't get along even though we disagree. Civil discourse, to your point, is part of putting community first and sometimes putting myself second, letting someone speak, giving someone a safe space to feel heard, even though I vehemently disagree with them.

I mean again, their overlaps are thick. You know. I talk about the paradox of being human, which is every moment of every day, we are both individuals and members of groups. You are you, but you are also a member of a team, a school, a community, a church, a neighborhood, a family, a friend group. And there's the debate, do I put myself first at the expense of the group or do I put the group first to the expense of me. And there's a whole school of thought that believes one and a whole school of thought that believes the other, and the answers you're both right and you're both wrong. It is a paradox, which is you have to manage both simultaneously, and it is complicated, and sometimes we er too far one way and sometimes we are too far the other way. But it is something we manage our lives. And I think the pendulum has seemed to have swung towards one side, which is you put yourself first at the expense of the group. But then what ends up happening is the group suffers. And we see that, we see fractured community, and we see that we can't get along even though we disagree. Civil discourse, to your point, is part of putting community first and sometimes putting myself second, letting someone speak, giving someone a safe space to feel heard, even though I vehemently disagree with them.

But you know, I'm old enough to know that things are sicklical. Yeah, And I think this younger generation is sort of looking at those who the generation that directly precedes them, and you know, feeling like, I don't want to be like that.

But you know, I'm old enough to know that things are sicklical. Yeah, And I think this younger generation is sort of looking at those who the generation that directly precedes them, and you know, feeling like, I don't want to be like that.

So I guess what will this young generation, especially you're seventeen and eighteen year olds, what are they rebelling against their parents? Like? What do they see that their parents are doing that they are actively you can see it, and it'll go even worse or more in college. Like what are they rebelling against? Where are they the opposite of their parents?

So I guess what will this young generation, especially you're seventeen and eighteen year olds, what are they rebelling against their parents? Like? What do they see that their parents are doing that they are actively you can see it, and it'll go even worse or more in college. Like what are they rebelling against? Where are they the opposite of their parents?

Consumerism? They see the rampant consumerism as one of the chief reasons for destruction of the climate. They are angry that their parents have not done enough to put responsible people in government so that there is essentially no control on gun ownership or gun violence in this country. I mean, like I said at the beginning, they're angry and they feel that their parents have been so busy earning money and spending money that they haven't tended their communities and their governments, and you know, they're just fed up.

Consumerism? They see the rampant consumerism as one of the chief reasons for destruction of the climate. They are angry that their parents have not done enough to put responsible people in government so that there is essentially no control on gun ownership or gun violence in this country. I mean, like I said at the beginning, they're angry and they feel that their parents have been so busy earning money and spending money that they haven't tended their communities and their governments, and you know, they're just fed up.

What have you learned from your kids that makes you different than your friends? Like your friends have learned their lessons from each other, but you have access to these whole school of wonderful human beings every day who are different. So what about you is different because of your kids, because of your students?

What have you learned from your kids that makes you different than your friends? Like your friends have learned their lessons from each other, but you have access to these whole school of wonderful human beings every day who are different. So what about you is different because of your kids, because of your students?

Oh my, I'm hopeful. I'm more hopeful than I think a lot of my friends who don't hear kids talking in a real context, in a like a very authentic situation. I'm more hopeful because the kids haven't given up. They can't. I think a lot of the existential stuff we see, the anxiety to the depression is that the kids can't see past all of these huge, burdensome problems in our world. And that's what depression is. It's the absence of hope. But what I see more and more, by and large, are kids voicing their hope and determination and then getting involved to change things and the.

Oh my, I'm hopeful. I'm more hopeful than I think a lot of my friends who don't hear kids talking in a real context, in a like a very authentic situation. I'm more hopeful because the kids haven't given up. They can't. I think a lot of the existential stuff we see, the anxiety to the depression is that the kids can't see past all of these huge, burdensome problems in our world. And that's what depression is. It's the absence of hope. But what I see more and more, by and large, are kids voicing their hope and determination and then getting involved to change things and the.

Things that you're teaching all those human skills, will they work in a school with girls and boys. I think we are you kind of cheating a little bit because you have old girls.

Things that you're teaching all those human skills, will they work in a school with girls and boys. I think we are you kind of cheating a little bit because you have old girls.

It's definitely easier. I think it's easier, not because boys are a problem. By the way, I'm very concerned about boys, and we can do a whole podcast on that. Yeah, But I think it's simply that the girls are not distracted by worried about sort of the male gaze that is so pervasive for all women all the time, that they can just be comfortable in their own skin and have real conversations and devote their time and energy to other more important things.

It's definitely easier. I think it's easier, not because boys are a problem. By the way, I'm very concerned about boys, and we can do a whole podcast on that. Yeah, But I think it's simply that the girls are not distracted by worried about sort of the male gaze that is so pervasive for all women all the time, that they can just be comfortable in their own skin and have real conversations and devote their time and energy to other more important things.

Tell me what's your fear for boys?

Tell me what's your fear for boys?

First of all, Developmentally, boys are in a different trajectory than girls. Yes, the brains are different, and I may be controversial for saying that, but girls multitask better, they read sooner, they're more compliant. Whether that's socially or innately, it doesn't really matter. And I think that girls get rewarded for their behavior in school, their compliance. They're socialized to be perfectionistic, so you know, while a boy will figure out the exact least amount of work to do to get the best possible outcome, which, by the way, as Lisa de Moore says is a great skill. I say this the girls all the time. That's a skill you want. There is no point to your revising that essay four times or color coding your notes from today. You could be doing other things. You could be listening to music or practicing your guitar, talking to a friend on the phone. But instead boys get punished for that because girls are socialized to be perfectionistic and they're leaving boys in the dust. And I also think that, you know, obviously, I am very much about empowering girls. But as I say to students all the time, you don't diminish one group in order to elevate another.

First of all, Developmentally, boys are in a different trajectory than girls. Yes, the brains are different, and I may be controversial for saying that, but girls multitask better, they read sooner, they're more compliant. Whether that's socially or innately, it doesn't really matter. And I think that girls get rewarded for their behavior in school, their compliance. They're socialized to be perfectionistic, so you know, while a boy will figure out the exact least amount of work to do to get the best possible outcome, which, by the way, as Lisa de Moore says is a great skill. I say this the girls all the time. That's a skill you want. There is no point to your revising that essay four times or color coding your notes from today. You could be doing other things. You could be listening to music or practicing your guitar, talking to a friend on the phone. But instead boys get punished for that because girls are socialized to be perfectionistic and they're leaving boys in the dust. And I also think that, you know, obviously, I am very much about empowering girls. But as I say to students all the time, you don't diminish one group in order to elevate another.

Scott Galloway actually talks about this. He says, the single most dangerous person on this planet is a lonely maley, you know. And if you look at all of the almost all of the horrible crime that we see perpetrated, it's almost always a relatively young, lonely male. And the vilification of boys, you know, And there's this moral equival andcy that starts happening when you say you can't vilify boys, and they say, well, men have been the patriarchy has been suppressing women for generations. So now they know what it feels like. I'm like, it's not a moral equivalency, Like, we're not condoning the past, correct by recognizing the imbalances of the present.

Scott Galloway actually talks about this. He says, the single most dangerous person on this planet is a lonely maley, you know. And if you look at all of the almost all of the horrible crime that we see perpetrated, it's almost always a relatively young, lonely male. And the vilification of boys, you know, And there's this moral equival andcy that starts happening when you say you can't vilify boys, and they say, well, men have been the patriarchy has been suppressing women for generations. So now they know what it feels like. I'm like, it's not a moral equivalency, Like, we're not condoning the past, correct by recognizing the imbalances of the present.

Correct.

Correct.

And I think to separate those two is, for some reason I don't know, become difficult, and moral equivalencies have become a standard to justify apparrent views or apparent behaviors. Absolutely, and in particular, now you know the me too movement is right and good because it's struck at the heart of absolutely at the lowest level, unethical and abhorrent at the worst level I legal behaviors. But all men are not those men, correct, And even if all men do stupid things, or people do stupid things, people and say stupid things, and we accidentally make each other uncomfortable on dates like, it's all It's happened and will continue to happen for the rest of time. And I think it's very interesting and difficult, as you said, And I'm very curious how schools are managing that. Yeah, helping one group be seen does not mean making the other group unseen. I will say the fact that your students are having an effect on you, that you are more hopeful and optimistic about the future. You know, I am more hopeful and optimistic about the future when I talk to you. So, for what it's worth, your students are having an outsized impact on the world. There are you know, heads of schools principles who get together and have their own industry associations. How many schools are embracing some of the techniques. And I'm going to give one example that I know about, which is when COVID struck, a lot of schools simply did school online. So you know, if you had fifty minute classes and you had seven of those in a row, they just turned on zoom and had seven in a row, fifty minute classes and they never changed anything. And when we went into lockdown. One of the things I know about Archer is you reinvented school so that it would be conducive to online learning. I don't know all the details, but I know you shortened classes something like twenty minutes, and then you had like learning pods where the students would get together. You reinvented school completely for this new medium. And I'm so curious why other schools didn't that they thought they could just do school but online. That never occurred to them that an eight year old, that is an untenable situation.

And I think to separate those two is, for some reason I don't know, become difficult, and moral equivalencies have become a standard to justify apparrent views or apparent behaviors. Absolutely, and in particular, now you know the me too movement is right and good because it's struck at the heart of absolutely at the lowest level, unethical and abhorrent at the worst level I legal behaviors. But all men are not those men, correct, And even if all men do stupid things, or people do stupid things, people and say stupid things, and we accidentally make each other uncomfortable on dates like, it's all It's happened and will continue to happen for the rest of time. And I think it's very interesting and difficult, as you said, And I'm very curious how schools are managing that. Yeah, helping one group be seen does not mean making the other group unseen. I will say the fact that your students are having an effect on you, that you are more hopeful and optimistic about the future. You know, I am more hopeful and optimistic about the future when I talk to you. So, for what it's worth, your students are having an outsized impact on the world. There are you know, heads of schools principles who get together and have their own industry associations. How many schools are embracing some of the techniques. And I'm going to give one example that I know about, which is when COVID struck, a lot of schools simply did school online. So you know, if you had fifty minute classes and you had seven of those in a row, they just turned on zoom and had seven in a row, fifty minute classes and they never changed anything. And when we went into lockdown. One of the things I know about Archer is you reinvented school so that it would be conducive to online learning. I don't know all the details, but I know you shortened classes something like twenty minutes, and then you had like learning pods where the students would get together. You reinvented school completely for this new medium. And I'm so curious why other schools didn't that they thought they could just do school but online. That never occurred to them that an eight year old, that is an untenable situation.

You know, one thing I say to my faculty every year is you got to take the Hippocratic oath annually. Oh that's cool, do no harm?

You know, one thing I say to my faculty every year is you got to take the Hippocratic oath annually. Oh that's cool, do no harm?

I did it come from that? Okay, we're going to lockdown. We have to reinvent how school works.

I did it come from that? Okay, we're going to lockdown. We have to reinvent how school works.

Yeah, because it's the way we do business generally. If something's not working, and we're constantly like, the kids tell us, parents will tell us, and if there's a pattern, we pay attention to the pattern. I don't know why schools are so defensive. We just are not a defensive school. So we knew our kids were suffering. We could see it with their eyes. They were telling us, parents were.

Yeah, because it's the way we do business generally. If something's not working, and we're constantly like, the kids tell us, parents will tell us, and if there's a pattern, we pay attention to the pattern. I don't know why schools are so defensive. We just are not a defensive school. So we knew our kids were suffering. We could see it with their eyes. They were telling us, parents were.

Telling grades go down.

Telling grades go down.

I mean yeah, yeah, no, I mean, and adults were suffering.

I mean yeah, yeah, no, I mean, and adults were suffering.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, it didn't take a genius. You know the kids are teachers. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, I don't know, we've just always rolled that way. If something's not right or good, or it's causing harm, let's do it differently. I don't know, and.

You know, it didn't take a genius. You know the kids are teachers. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, I don't know, we've just always rolled that way. If something's not right or good, or it's causing harm, let's do it differently. I don't know, and.

Strong opinions loosely held.

Strong opinions loosely held.

There's an absence of fear in our school, and probably for me I'm not afraid that things aren't going to be okay. Does that make sense, Like, like, if they aren't okay, then we'll do it differently. And I have a really awesome team. We have very broadly distributed leadership. So there's no teacher in the school who wouldn't walk into my office and say, hey, I was thinking, it's not high stakes that way, like, so what if we make a mistake, So what if this doesn't go well, or if we're hearing it's bad, we just change it.

There's an absence of fear in our school, and probably for me I'm not afraid that things aren't going to be okay. Does that make sense, Like, like, if they aren't okay, then we'll do it differently. And I have a really awesome team. We have very broadly distributed leadership. So there's no teacher in the school who wouldn't walk into my office and say, hey, I was thinking, it's not high stakes that way, like, so what if we make a mistake, So what if this doesn't go well, or if we're hearing it's bad, we just change it.

It must be very enlightening for kids to see their school willing to change, and they're head of school willing to listen to their complaints, and then a month or two later they would see change in the school based on their voice, their collective voice.

It must be very enlightening for kids to see their school willing to change, and they're head of school willing to listen to their complaints, and then a month or two later they would see change in the school based on their voice, their collective voice.

Yeah, and it's funny they don't abuse it. Yeah, sometimes I wish they would. Sometimes I say to them, like, you guys are so respectful all the time, Like I sometimes expect you to do things that are more rebellious. It is curious, and I don't know, maybe it's that they're girls, but I think they feel respected. I feel we take some of the desire to lash out away from them by being consultative, and well.

Yeah, and it's funny they don't abuse it. Yeah, sometimes I wish they would. Sometimes I say to them, like, you guys are so respectful all the time, Like I sometimes expect you to do things that are more rebellious. It is curious, and I don't know, maybe it's that they're girls, but I think they feel respected. I feel we take some of the desire to lash out away from them by being consultative, and well.

They feel like they have a voice.

They feel like they have a voice.

They do.

They do.

Lashing out usually happens when I feel Unhurvery correct, you don't have to take a large group of schools. Just take an interpersonal relationship, friendship, or a romantic relationship that if I feel unheard I'm going to be very difficult the next couple of days.

Lashing out usually happens when I feel Unhurvery correct, you don't have to take a large group of schools. Just take an interpersonal relationship, friendship, or a romantic relationship that if I feel unheard I'm going to be very difficult the next couple of days.

Yeah, exactly on my newspaper, I think is a really good example. There are very few schools in this country that have a free press, a free student truly free.

Yeah, exactly on my newspaper, I think is a really good example. There are very few schools in this country that have a free press, a free student truly free.

Student press, no teacher oversight.

Student press, no teacher oversight.

There is an advisor, but there's no prior review, no prior restraint. There is a student editor and editorial board.

There is an advisor, but there's no prior review, no prior restraint. There is a student editor and editorial board.

They write what they write.

They write what they write.

They write what they write. I have never ever once said no comment. I will always you know. And but the reason I feel good about that is that they are taught journalistic principles, ethics. They know how to conduct themselves as journalists. So you wouldn't just have a free press without giving them the skills. You wouldn't just tell them self regulate without giving them the skills. You wouldn't just say civil discourse without telling showing them what does that look like? Yeah, how do you do that.

They write what they write. I have never ever once said no comment. I will always you know. And but the reason I feel good about that is that they are taught journalistic principles, ethics. They know how to conduct themselves as journalists. So you wouldn't just have a free press without giving them the skills. You wouldn't just tell them self regulate without giving them the skills. You wouldn't just say civil discourse without telling showing them what does that look like? Yeah, how do you do that.

That's a very important insight, which is we're all yelling at each other in schools, parents to schools, parents to teachers, politics, whatever it is. We're all yelling at each other to get something right, and nobody's stopping thought hold on even interpersonal relationships. You know, I'm demanding that you be a better listener. You know, but do you even have the skills and how to listen? Do you know? Do you even have the skills on how to hold space? And I mean, I don't know if you know this, but I started the Optimism Company with a single purpose, which is to teach human skills. I won't call themself skills because there's nothing soft about them, not to mention the hard and softer opposites. And you know, my little joke is, you know, a cat doesn't have to work very hard to be a cat. They're just naturally good at being cats. But it's really hard to be human, and we actually have to study and learn to be good humans. It actually isn't natural, and it's difficult and complex because we are burdened with rational, conscious brains that make life a lot more difficult. Good human beings, like good leaders study being human like you study being a leader. All the best leaders I've ever met are all students of leadership. Even some of the most remarkable people I've ever met. All they want to do is talk about leadership. They love the subject. Yes, and well played. Did you hear that? Yes? And very good technique.

That's a very important insight, which is we're all yelling at each other in schools, parents to schools, parents to teachers, politics, whatever it is. We're all yelling at each other to get something right, and nobody's stopping thought hold on even interpersonal relationships. You know, I'm demanding that you be a better listener. You know, but do you even have the skills and how to listen? Do you know? Do you even have the skills on how to hold space? And I mean, I don't know if you know this, but I started the Optimism Company with a single purpose, which is to teach human skills. I won't call themself skills because there's nothing soft about them, not to mention the hard and softer opposites. And you know, my little joke is, you know, a cat doesn't have to work very hard to be a cat. They're just naturally good at being cats. But it's really hard to be human, and we actually have to study and learn to be good humans. It actually isn't natural, and it's difficult and complex because we are burdened with rational, conscious brains that make life a lot more difficult. Good human beings, like good leaders study being human like you study being a leader. All the best leaders I've ever met are all students of leadership. Even some of the most remarkable people I've ever met. All they want to do is talk about leadership. They love the subject. Yes, and well played. Did you hear that? Yes? And very good technique.

We teach that at Archer. We do to the point where we make fun of it, as you just did. I get so excited when I meet someone that I want to be like. Still at the age of fifty eight. I meet people and I think, oh, I just want to emulate that, because they were so thoughtful, or so gracious, or so humble. Yeah, that's why I think traveling is so important, because there are cultures where those are sort of revered qualities, and somehow those things have fallen away a little bit here, in particular, because we so prize the individual and have so elevated the place of the emotional life.

We teach that at Archer. We do to the point where we make fun of it, as you just did. I get so excited when I meet someone that I want to be like. Still at the age of fifty eight. I meet people and I think, oh, I just want to emulate that, because they were so thoughtful, or so gracious, or so humble. Yeah, that's why I think traveling is so important, because there are cultures where those are sort of revered qualities, and somehow those things have fallen away a little bit here, in particular, because we so prize the individual and have so elevated the place of the emotional life.

Yeah. I think it's the mistake that America has made over the past forty years, forty plus years. We've over indexed on rugged individualism, for sure, and we have forgotten that we live in community, We live with other people, and I think people often confuse offering someone safe space to feel heard doesn't mean you agree or condone. It simply means you allow them to feel heard, and that is determined by the person speaking, not by the person listening. Correct, That's the rub last question for you. Can you tell me something you've been involved in as a head of school A project, a time, doesn't matter specifically, but something you were involved in that you absolutely loved being a part of it, A specific project, or something that if everything were like this one thing, you'd be the happiest person alive.

Yeah. I think it's the mistake that America has made over the past forty years, forty plus years. We've over indexed on rugged individualism, for sure, and we have forgotten that we live in community, We live with other people, and I think people often confuse offering someone safe space to feel heard doesn't mean you agree or condone. It simply means you allow them to feel heard, and that is determined by the person speaking, not by the person listening. Correct, That's the rub last question for you. Can you tell me something you've been involved in as a head of school A project, a time, doesn't matter specifically, but something you were involved in that you absolutely loved being a part of it, A specific project, or something that if everything were like this one thing, you'd be the happiest person alive.

That's a big question. I'm sure I'm going to answer it and then leave here and say why the hell didn't I say something else? Well, last year we had the experience of working with a large group of teachers to come up with sort of a pay transparency like bonus schedule for educators. And I've always been told that you could never have a bonus structure in a school because it hurts feelings and it's you know, the work of teaching is too hard to measure or evaluate, which I don't agree with, by the way. And then California came out with a bill that said you essentially have to make your payscale public, which is something this generation wants anyway again a generational thing. Fine, So we had a task force with our faculty and we said, how do we do this? And the first thing we did was we brought everybody up to the seventy fifth percentile of secondary schools independent secondary schools in southern California. So many people in our school got a significant raise. We're a young school, we don't have a big endowment. It felt good for us to make that a budgetary priority. And then said, beyond that, we're going to have these three tiers of teaching expertise. At each stage, you demonstrate your mastery of certain skills in the classroom, commitment to the community, et cetera, and you will receive, you know, a five, fifteen or twenty five thousand dollars bonus. A lot of people said you can't do this in a school, too many hurt feelings. Our teachers are very very happy about this. They want the recognition, they obviously want to earn more money, and they're going to be part of developing the criteria for being evaluated. And I loved the process because it wasn't a group of workers or teachers or employees saying we want more money, or we want things to be different somehow, and us as leaderships, you know, trying to figure it out over here, how do we play caate or how do we solve for this? We said, okay, let's sit down and let's figure this out. We're right, you are what you do is so highly valuable. I went to the board, I said, this has to be our number one priority over the next decade. There is a shortage of teachers. And by the way, morally, it's the right thing to do. These you know, they're working with our future. And I'm just really really pleased with the process, with how we did it so collaboratively, with how we kept the rest of the faculty informed and did focus groups and got feedback. I just I'm very proud of it, and I think we're one of the few independent schools that has been bold enough to do something like us.