The last performance I saw before COVID was Michael McIntyre live at Radio City Music Hall in New York. Radio City is actually a small venue for Michael. He's one of the world's most successful stand up comedians, and he usually does venues the size of stadiums. These past few months have been a bit stressful, so I decided I needed a bit of a laugh, and so I called Michael, and that's exactly what we did. We laughed about many things, including his shitty WiFi. This is a bit of optimism, So I force quit Savvy. I'm gonna just start force quitting hold on, okay, i'll tell you what I'm I'm now force quitting Adobe flash Player in school Manager. I don't even know what that is. Oh yeah, you don't really need that, Moore. I'm going to force quit the calculator. Okay, that's that's not doing anything either. I'm going to force quit my scanner. Basically, I just scan signed in voices so that I can't do during this podcast, no messages, no more opinion Excel never used it. Why it's open. I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do either. This is live, right, this is going out live, all right, I am so tell me when you want to start the past and I'll try and be optimistic. That's what The only requirement is, you have to be optimistic. So we're going to start now, are you ready? All right? Michael McIntyre, the indefatigable hang on, what does that mean? There's it means you don't get fatigued. Oh fabulous. But I have also put some way to the endless energy of Michael back and tire. That's what That's what endless eating will give thees of this lockdown weight. So yes, sorry you were introducing me. Give me a big, big intro, because to be honest, I need it as much as ladies and gentlemen. All Right, you haven't done a show. When was the last time you did a show? Wait? Is that my big introduction? Ladies and gentlemen. This is an American thing. You have to give me a big up. You've got to tell everybody how it's sensation. I am no. Michael McIntyre is perhaps one of the greatest comedians that has ever lived. He's unbelievably famous, he's unbelievably funny, and I cannot believe that he agreed to come on my little podcast. This is the most humbled I've felt with any guest ever. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Michael McIntyre, thank you very much, Simon. It's actually a pleasure to be with you today on your wonderful podcast and interruptionist. We're going to have to have a lot of optimism with regards to the quality of Wi Fi currently at my house. I hate to tell you, I actually missed a lot of that intro, so I'll need you now. I'll take your word for it. It was it was really. I mean, I big up to you big time. I said, you're one of the greatest comedians that ever lived. Ever. Yes, And I love the way you're using the past tense, because the greatest comedian living I was. I used to be a comedian, Simon, as you well know. And you came to one of my last ever performances I did in New York. No, it's amazing to think back at what used to happen and performing because it's been well, it's been over years. That's been on stage. I dream about it sometimes and I have tried assume gig. That's been an absolute catastrophe. And why was it a catastrophe because you didn't have the audience energy you need that time. And it's really a set that laughter is real because that's why you do it right. You do it for the land. And I can't tell you how encouraging laughter I took it for granted, but sitting at my desk trying to be funny and there was like thousands of people watching and I had no idea whether they're enjoying it. And also the CEO of the company, he made a speech before me, and he was the only person I could see, and I didn't realize but he had gone. He had actually signed off. He wasn't watching the gig, so in what remained was the final shot of his face before he signed off, but I thought he was still there. And I'm here to tell you that final shot was not a smiley one. He looked incredibly upset because he was obviously looking you know that face you make when you're looking for the leave button, so it's sort of frowning looking down. Then I started laying into him for not laughing. He wasn't even there. It was just an image of him. So, yeah, these are very taxing times. How's it been for you. I adjusted with my work. Also, feedback matters, and so I stopped giving speeches. I prefer interviews because then I can actually engage with someone even though I don't have an audience. But you're very good with an audience, Simon, and you you're very funny as well. You have a good sprinkling of laughter in your You're very kind, and you need that. It breaks a room. You need to sprinkle. The best speakers will sprinkle comedy in there, just to bind the audience together at key moments. It's vitals. I think that comedians play a more vital role than people realize. Stephen Colbert said once that you can't be angry when you're laughing. I think, overlooking tickling, I think you have an enormous amount of rain. That's actually true. Still you're laughing your head off. But other than tickling, you can't be angry and you can't be sad when you're laughing. And I remember when COVID first happened, when we first went into lockdown, all these funny videos and all these memes just sort of pouring out that we were all forwarding to each other and laughing out loud, and it sort of really did help when we hit so much uncertainty is what was going to happen? And can we touch the milk we just bought for fear of death period. I think we've sort of come to terms of the fact that you can't get it from services. Correct. But yes, shopping and cleaning while you were shopping and then cleaning and buy cleaning equipment and then using other cleaning equipment to clean the cian, then working the cleaning equipment all over the table, then rolling the cleaning equipment. It was sort of man, it sort of go on ad in forn item. You've got to clean the next one, and then you've got to buy that one to clean that one is going to clean this one. There was endless cleaning and rubber gloves and it was a very well, it still is very scary, but yes, you're right, there was a lot of comedy. It took me a while to engage comediateally. I didn't find it particularly funny for a for a long time. Still don't have you avoided it? Son? I have fortunately avoided COVID. Yes, I have not had it. Have you had a vaccine? I have. I just had my second shot last week. Fully faxed fully. I mean it's a thing. My favorite thing is like when somebody says, did you get fact, I'm like yeah, And then they always ask Maderna a Pfizer like it matters, and I do the same thing. I go which ones you get? And they go Johnson and Johnson like okay cool, Moderna okay cool. Like I have no opinion. You say okay, cool, but then you walk away and delete them from your phone. That is an unfortunate follow up question. It's almost like we're slightly worried that the future of society is going to be divided into these subsets of like like pizers can only marry fiers. It's exactly right. Be like a moderna singles night, they're having a mixed wedding. It's a Maderna and Pizer. Yeah, when you it's in a bridal groom. Okay, piss on the left. Did you were you able to avoid it? I didn't avoid it. I got it in November. I mean it wasn't awful. I was very fortunate because it's it's scary as many people obviously more than many people know because you go through it and then there's that sort of weight to see if you either get a lot worse or get best. Right. So, yeah, I got it. It lingered a really long time. Thankfully I was the only one who got it in my house. Weirdly I got it. My housekeeper got it and my wife didn't. So you can read into that. Let's just say a lot of questions which I coughed away. Yeah, I just I'll tell you in a minute. I got my way through that, and luckily I think I got away with it. But yes, and I'm getting the vaccine, I think on Sunday. So this is happening. Which one are you getting? Well, I'm going to get the I think the I think you don't get to chew, but I think it's the fighter. My wife's had the astroseneca last week. I'm just hoping the housekeeper gets the fire. One of the things that's been impressed me, you've been really actually productive during COVID. You wrote a book. Yeah, I've actually it's been all right. I wrote a book. I wrote a second autobiography. I mean what it begs the question, how does one write a second Orto biography? Well, it's exactly the same as the first, Or you're just picking up with the last one left off. No, it's the same. It's actually the same words, it's just a different cover. That's why it was so easy. Yes, it picks up where the last one left off. My Life Volume two. Well, yes, because the first one was called Life and Laughing, and I wanted to call it more Life and more Laughing, with a view to follow up still alive and still the final incomplete. It's my death bed, nearly done, barely alive and dribbling. But the publisher thought it wasn't good to do that. So at the moment it's called a Funny Life and they like it, so that's good. That's good at the moment. It's all the grammar and stuff, which is like I didn't realize. I was so hopeless, like words, I literally had an idea. I've spelt wrong the whole book Lead. I didn't know Lead was led. Yeah. I think we were taught it was la d wasn't it. Maybe. I mean I write books on leadership and I'm actually not one hundred percent sure. Well, I wrote it book on lettership. I've got this thing I like doing when I just put things on their own line. I hate too much text. Yeah, you and me both it just take a breath and take this in, so I'll just put it on its own line. Also, it means I end up with more pages. It's like a poem. I like writing in a manner that helps people read it the way I want it said. You know, ellipses and spaces and gaps, so that you're forced to take the breath, so you're forced to take in whatever the line is the next line. I love doing that when it reflects the way you speak, and it's your voice, and people need your voice and everyone can write, Simon, Let's be honest. I mean, writing is just it's just saying stuff, but written down. I mean it's not it's no great shape. No, I think it's different because otherwise everybody would just talk into a tape recorder and then have it transcribed, and that that would be a book, and those make bad books. Right. Well, I'm sorry, I wish I hadn't have done it that way, but that's one of Well, I think that's so fantastic that you spent the time to write a book and you developed a TV show, Like, how can you say you've been unproductive? I don't know how I know it On paper, it looks like I've been very productive. I had an idea for a TV show in the bath. I don't know why I always mentioned that I was in the bath, just because I was in the bar. I literally thought, I'm going to come up with a TV show idea. I wanted to come up with a game show, so I came up. When I came up with two, one of them was awful. Is it something you can talk about publicly? Well, yes, it's on the back burner. I mean we can can bring it off the bat. It was just a quiz show where the other person has to quickly ask the question and know the answer. So it would be me versus you. I would just give you a subject. You have to come up with a question. Let's try it. Let's try it. Okay. So you're gonna give me a subject and I have to come up with a question and an answer for myself. Yes, but I've got to answer it. But you have to know the answer. You've only got five seconds to do here. Is that under pressure, you're going to say something silly? Okay, to be honest, this is an idea I've not voiced outside of once after this bath. Okay, so I'll give you the subject. Okay, okay, you see it's even hard to think. I'm gonna give you the subject of, Oh, my goodness, of podcasts. You've got five seconds. How many podcasts have you done since before this one? You know you have to know the answer. I know the answer. You know how many podcasts I've done before this one? You know that. Now I'm gonna have to guess. I don't know. Three one as you can do. This idea doesn't necessarily have legs. I would like to try one. Okay, so now let me do it to you. Okay, I've got one for you. Okay, let's do zoos. The name zoo in London, the London Zoo. That's the correct answer. There could potentially be fun in this game. So you're winning. This is the idea. It didn't go for. The other one is called the Wheel, and so we made ten of those. We're making sixteen more and it's going to be on NBC I think early next year. Oh that's fantastic. Oh I have to see if I can watch it on BBC I Player or something like that. It's a really really fun show. We're going to, as I say, we're making more in a couple of weeks. That's really good. So I want to understand how you wrote a book, devised and produced and executed a TV show. Are you sitting writing jokes like you used to. I don't write jokes. I tend to write notes of things that make me laugh and then I just performed them over and over again in little gigs and build them up. So home life has always been very relaxed and you know, not high pressure and only creative. And I've just sort of dad and a husband here. Know that sort of disappeared, which is awkward, and I really wanted to come back. And with regards to working, I need to keep busy. And now that I finished the book and finish the TV show, I can feel myself getting a bit sort of confused about stuff and inarticulate and going slightly mad. But yeah, everybody was forced to a pivot. That's an American. We're all pivoting. Yeah, yeah, I didn't know about pivoting until an American mentioned it was a possibility. So I pivoted away from stand up and started doing the TV show. And yeah, I went back to writing a book. And writing is a lovely thing because your cocooned in your ow bubble and you can write rubbish but then fix it the next day, and it's a different type of creativity. Do you want to go back to life as you had it before COVID or do you think that this will permanently change the way you live your Showba's life. Well, we have to appreciate things more. I mean, it would be criminal not to appreciate everything. Should the world come back, because I think everyone was quite excited about appreciating the small things at the beginning, But now it's going on and on and on. It's getting really really serious. It's like, how far into this are we is this year one of five? Is it year one of ten? Is it? Are we nearly out? You know, every time you get a bit of good news, suddenly there's a triple mutated something coming in from in the year. It's coming in from Brazil, and it's just terrifying. It's humanity versus Mother Nature, absolutely is, and there's so much to learn from it. But whether we will I'd love to find out, which means it would be over. But you want to go back to sort of doing your gigs and doing your shows. You like you're craving going back to the way life was, or do you think that something happened, Because for me, I realized that I was on this hamster wheel and I was enjoying the speed that I was running. But one of the things that Covid did for me is I looked. I was like, oh my god, I wasn't running fast. I was just trying to keep up, and Covid stopped the wheel. The terrible thing is when you're trying to keep up with other people and you can't be doing that, What a waste of life that is. And that's the lesson I've tried to learn, because competition is a natural instinct. It's a drive, which is good, but ultimately it's kind of meaningless because, like you said, if you're always chasing something, if you're always I think that people struggle with is how much people need something to look forward to, and not knowing the future is really damaging to that because living in the here and now, in the presence, it's not an easy thing to do. We're not used to that. What we're used to doing is knowing something good is coming or thinking it's going to be good, or even if it's a goal, it could be a holiday or it could be I need to achieve that. That's such a great insight. That's like telling your kids, we're going to Disneyland on this date, and like the kids count the days down the excitement. You know, they have to get their chores done and get certain things so that they can go to Disneyland, because there's conditions put on the trip. But if you just said we're going on holiday one day, it's kind of a little unnerving, actually, And that's what we have. We keep being told we're coming out of this, and then the target keeps moving with regards to holidays. It's fascinating how that is what people are desperate for. But what is a holiday? It's something to avoid, it's it's a change, it's a break. And every single person who came on my game show, when I said to them, what would you do if you want that's every single person not to the holiday. They wanted to go to where you just said, Disney. They wanted to go through those gates into fantasy Land. If everyone's smiling at you, saying welcome home, smiley characters, and just stay there for a bit to not have to worry. That was what Disney's vision, which is a place to escape depression and sadness and the drudgery and grayness of real life and come to this place that was always bright and sunny and fine. I mean, that was his vision. Whether it's a reality or just a fantasy where he keeps people going, that's one of the many things have been taken away. But you still haven't answered the question do you want to go back to the life you had before COVID or do you think that there will be changes to the cadence or the way you live your life because of COVID. It's weird because I'm always complaining, so when I'm working, I want to be at home, and when I'm at home, I want to be working, you know. But that's also how I function. It's also what, you know, how I find things funny. It's it's that kind of mania in neurosis that creates comedy. I know, because I've had a lot of time to think that I'm happy. I'm happy as when I'm being creative and I've come up with something good. And I was able to do that a bit under these circumstances. But really nothing beats live performance and the instantaneous reaction because it's very cathartic because it washes everything away. You know, everybody worries about how they're being perceived, Are they on conform are they thinking right? To people like me, nothing is more magical than just saying something to an audience of people, and everybody you know confirms it and laughs with you. And it's just it's instant feedback. It's not like you have to write a book and you have to put it out. There's one person likes it, another person doesn't. Why you know you're on an Amazon Why is that person give me a two star review? It's just like that I said something funny. I thought it was funny, it was they're all laughing. Then I followed it up with more stuff that just came out of my head and I didn't mean to think about it. And it's just joyous and it fuels me. It keeps me going, and without it, I always go a bit weird. And now I've been forced to be without it, so I've had just sort of self confidence. I'm here to tell you still looking. I wonder if comedy will work socially distanced, because one of the things that happens when somebody laughs everybody laughs is like, things are funnier when you're with a friend. My test is something is really funny is if I can watch by myself and laugh out loud. That's like the greatest test of something really funny, because things are funnier with your friends, and so if you're socially distanced, the question is is will the laugh to spread across the audience like it does in a packed house? But it's obviously going to be more difficult, and of course the funnier you are, the more dangerous it is, because if you're physically laughing at you know, if you're not funny, if you're not super spreading right, you're sitting there slowly and calmly, breathing in and out, and then you're leaving early. No, that's standing ovation. It costs us seriously. So that but I mean, look a, it's a nightmare simon. I mean, and then think about masks. I mean, you're performing to people you can't even see them smiling. You just hope they have smiling eyes. And I'm a huge one for resting faces. I mean, I'm always scanning the audience and if anybody looks miserable, I starts. Really I focus in on them. Why are they not smiling, Why they're not on the edge of their seat, Why they are they why are they even here? Do they hate me? I start to lose my mind over it. But now you know that you can't even see their face. You know their faces are behind the mass. They're socially distant. I mean, it's like all my worst things in regards to before. You and I have different strategies. When I'm on a stage, and of course I'm scanning and I can see somebody looking very angry and disapproving, and then I see somebody else who's nodding and smiling and agreeing with everything I'm saying. I fixate on the person who's nodding and agreeing with me because it makes me I'm like, oh, this is going great, and my my energy goes up and my confidence goes up. When I focus on the person who's scowling at me, I'm like, this is over. I can't do this, And then I spend my whole time trying to convince one person. Well. I can't COVID when people go to the loo because I waiting for them to come back, because I'm always thinking they might walk out. Sometimes I accident, There'll be a mid joke and they'll come back in and go yes, because I was thrilled that it was they were so desperate to go to the loo, and it's not that they've literally just walked out. And not only that, I see sometimes they're in a couple. I'm like, I'm so awful they've left the show, They've left their part. Walk Oh no, they're back. I'm fine. No, I'm definitely viewing it in a more negative way, which is why, honestly, I've had the best gigs of my life. When I can't see the audience, I always ask for the spotlights just hit me in the face. I don't want to see anything. I mean, especially when I do the bigger rooms, I can't see a single person, and you just you relax, and you just you just you're dealing now with one noise. It's like you're one animal is laughter as opposed to lots of individuals. I find this so fascinating because we are the total opposite. I always request the house lights as bright as possible so I can see the people, so that I can make eye contact with somebody, so I can talk to a person. If I'm talking to a blank voice, what I want to do. My worst gigs are when the spotlights on them and the house lights are off. Well, you're obviously a much more positive person. Hence the your podcast that I would like to pug mine a bit of pessivism, which is also on iTunes or whatever it is. Also, the pandemic has cut short a burgeoning friendship. I mean we've only met a few times. You saw me in New York after my show, and of course that's when this was all. That's right. I came to see your show, right, what was it in March of the last year, Right, it was February February, so it's right when this thing was just beginning and we were just hearing the first report of it in the West, and I came to see your show at Radio City, which by the way, was fantastic. That was the last show I did, and I started that show by saying, as a joke, this could be the last show I do, and it was for a for a long long time and ongoing. I mean, I mean, it's absolutely wild, but it's an experiment, you know, if you look at aspects of it like an experiment and try and get the positives out of it, like when I finally get back on stage, and you know, and like I said earlier, we've we've got to learn from it, and you're going to help people do that. That's why you're so brilliant, is that you can get people thinking about the right things, which is so important. And also, let's not forget that the world didn't seem to be going that great anyway before as well. It's not like things everyone was flying, everyone was quite stressed, not really understanding social media's going crazy. I do think that when there's this kind of massive disruption, I'm a great believer in balance. In all clouds, there are silver linings. And for all of the stresses and strains that we've gone through because of COVID and the murder of George Floyd and what that started, that good comes out of things. And even though I think we're in a period of extreme stress and we don't know how things are going to pan out, there's a momentum and an appetite for things like police reform in the United States and really focusing on race relations in the United States and other places around the world. And what does happiness mean? I think, you know, I think that this is a big opportunity for us to reevaluate. Happiness is not just how much money we make in the promotion we get, but it's the time we spend with our families and the time we have to ourselves and doing creative things. The balance to too far for COVID, But I think it forced us to reevaluate, and I think that's ultimately. I think a lot of good will come out of this period of darkness and uncertainty. But that's the optimist in me. That's very optimistic. But having said all that, when we are allowed to leave our homes for good and this is all over, I'm going to feel like such a loser if I'm ever staying in. Can you imagine having I mean, I feel like I have to go out everybody. Can you imagine having to say the words, YEA, I'm just going to stay in and have a quiet one. I was like, I think we've got our fix. Well, I'm an introvert, so I've been planning my whole life for this pandemic. I always like talking about phones to you, how are you feeling about that? The whole obsession with mobiles because the problem of call to the pandemic is we've been forced onto our phones and to give up any sense of rules with kids and stuff. It's just like, what else are you going to do? Your usage got I mean your screen time, my person. I like the phone. I saw. One of the things that was great about COVID is people actually picked up the phone, Like people who would never dream of phoning and would just text. We're actually making calls to hear the voice of another human being. I love that, So that I think is great. You know, I don't think technology is bad. I mean I don't have a I'm not antiphone. I think it's the balance of technology in our lives and I think a lot of people were spending times with their family and watching TV, you know, which is great, and people didn't have the phone at the dinner table. They put it away. Well, I've certainly been on my phone a lot more than well it's are you texting friends? Are you playing games? What do you don't know? I'm just sort of scrolling around the internet, I mean at night. But the terrible thing is I'm sort of embarrassed about my wife and I have both on our phone. So something that wake up in the night and just start looking at my phone and I'll catch her doing it. There's a sort of glow you get to sort of give away bedtime glow in the middle of the night, and I sort of build a sort of pillow wall between us so that I can hide the fact that I'm on my phone for ages. Sometimes I'm holding it lying down over my head, reading and I fall. This is a leaf for ogageon. I fall asleep and the phone drops out of my hand. You know. Sometimes the immortal hands on my face wakes me up and then I just carry on scroll. I think that is addiction. By the way, my son his bedroom is above us, and we know that he's gone to sleep, because this is terrible. The phone falls out of his hand and lands on the floor. We can hear it the ceiling and I'll be like, oh, Luke's just gone to sleep, and we hear it go crash, and it's like, oh he's gone. Oh bless him. It's terrible. It is terrible, But you know, isn't it all? But you know will address that. Michael. It's such a joy to talk to you. I just I adore it. This has made my week. I just love the way you see the world. I just love talking to you. It's a constant, constant giggle. I just adore it. It's been very fun. I'm sorry about the Wi fi, but I think it just look I think we've all become a lot more patient with people's children running through meetings and frozen wi fi and turning on cat filters and not knowing how to turn them off, because you know, I think it's actually made us just a little more empathetic, and so I have empathy for your shitty WiFi. Thank you so much for having me on. And you're brilliant and you help people think it the right way, and you're an excellent person. And on that note, thanks, You're the best. You're the absolute best. If you enjoyed this podcast and you'd like to hear more, please subscribe wherever you like to listen to podcasts. Until then, take care of yourself, take care of each other.

The last performance I saw before COVID was Michael McIntyre live at Radio City Music Hall in New York. Radio City is actually a small venue for Michael. He's one of the world's most successful stand up comedians, and he usually does venues the size of stadiums. These past few months have been a bit stressful, so I decided I needed a bit of a laugh, and so I called Michael, and that's exactly what we did. We laughed about many things, including his shitty WiFi. This is a bit of optimism, So I force quit Savvy. I'm gonna just start force quitting hold on, okay, i'll tell you what I'm I'm now force quitting Adobe flash Player in school Manager. I don't even know what that is. Oh yeah, you don't really need that, Moore. I'm going to force quit the calculator. Okay, that's that's not doing anything either. I'm going to force quit my scanner. Basically, I just scan signed in voices so that I can't do during this podcast, no messages, no more opinion Excel never used it. Why it's open. I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do either. This is live, right, this is going out live, all right, I am so tell me when you want to start the past and I'll try and be optimistic. That's what The only requirement is, you have to be optimistic. So we're going to start now, are you ready? All right? Michael McIntyre, the indefatigable hang on, what does that mean? There's it means you don't get fatigued. Oh fabulous. But I have also put some way to the endless energy of Michael back and tire. That's what That's what endless eating will give thees of this lockdown weight. So yes, sorry you were introducing me. Give me a big, big intro, because to be honest, I need it as much as ladies and gentlemen. All Right, you haven't done a show. When was the last time you did a show? Wait? Is that my big introduction? Ladies and gentlemen. This is an American thing. You have to give me a big up. You've got to tell everybody how it's sensation. I am no. Michael McIntyre is perhaps one of the greatest comedians that has ever lived. He's unbelievably famous, he's unbelievably funny, and I cannot believe that he agreed to come on my little podcast. This is the most humbled I've felt with any guest ever. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Michael McIntyre, thank you very much, Simon. It's actually a pleasure to be with you today on your wonderful podcast and interruptionist. We're going to have to have a lot of optimism with regards to the quality of Wi Fi currently at my house. I hate to tell you, I actually missed a lot of that intro, so I'll need you now. I'll take your word for it. It was it was really. I mean, I big up to you big time. I said, you're one of the greatest comedians that ever lived. Ever. Yes, And I love the way you're using the past tense, because the greatest comedian living I was. I used to be a comedian, Simon, as you well know. And you came to one of my last ever performances I did in New York. No, it's amazing to think back at what used to happen and performing because it's been well, it's been over years. That's been on stage. I dream about it sometimes and I have tried assume gig. That's been an absolute catastrophe. And why was it a catastrophe because you didn't have the audience energy you need that time. And it's really a set that laughter is real because that's why you do it right. You do it for the land. And I can't tell you how encouraging laughter I took it for granted, but sitting at my desk trying to be funny and there was like thousands of people watching and I had no idea whether they're enjoying it. And also the CEO of the company, he made a speech before me, and he was the only person I could see, and I didn't realize but he had gone. He had actually signed off. He wasn't watching the gig, so in what remained was the final shot of his face before he signed off, but I thought he was still there. And I'm here to tell you that final shot was not a smiley one. He looked incredibly upset because he was obviously looking you know that face you make when you're looking for the leave button, so it's sort of frowning looking down. Then I started laying into him for not laughing. He wasn't even there. It was just an image of him. So, yeah, these are very taxing times. How's it been for you. I adjusted with my work. Also, feedback matters, and so I stopped giving speeches. I prefer interviews because then I can actually engage with someone even though I don't have an audience. But you're very good with an audience, Simon, and you you're very funny as well. You have a good sprinkling of laughter in your You're very kind, and you need that. It breaks a room. You need to sprinkle. The best speakers will sprinkle comedy in there, just to bind the audience together at key moments. It's vitals. I think that comedians play a more vital role than people realize. Stephen Colbert said once that you can't be angry when you're laughing. I think, overlooking tickling, I think you have an enormous amount of rain. That's actually true. Still you're laughing your head off. But other than tickling, you can't be angry and you can't be sad when you're laughing. And I remember when COVID first happened, when we first went into lockdown, all these funny videos and all these memes just sort of pouring out that we were all forwarding to each other and laughing out loud, and it sort of really did help when we hit so much uncertainty is what was going to happen? And can we touch the milk we just bought for fear of death period. I think we've sort of come to terms of the fact that you can't get it from services. Correct. But yes, shopping and cleaning while you were shopping and then cleaning and buy cleaning equipment and then using other cleaning equipment to clean the cian, then working the cleaning equipment all over the table, then rolling the cleaning equipment. It was sort of man, it sort of go on ad in forn item. You've got to clean the next one, and then you've got to buy that one to clean that one is going to clean this one. There was endless cleaning and rubber gloves and it was a very well, it still is very scary, but yes, you're right, there was a lot of comedy. It took me a while to engage comediateally. I didn't find it particularly funny for a for a long time. Still don't have you avoided it? Son? I have fortunately avoided COVID. Yes, I have not had it. Have you had a vaccine? I have. I just had my second shot last week. Fully faxed fully. I mean it's a thing. My favorite thing is like when somebody says, did you get fact, I'm like yeah, And then they always ask Maderna a Pfizer like it matters, and I do the same thing. I go which ones you get? And they go Johnson and Johnson like okay cool, Moderna okay cool. Like I have no opinion. You say okay, cool, but then you walk away and delete them from your phone. That is an unfortunate follow up question. It's almost like we're slightly worried that the future of society is going to be divided into these subsets of like like pizers can only marry fiers. It's exactly right. Be like a moderna singles night, they're having a mixed wedding. It's a Maderna and Pizer. Yeah, when you it's in a bridal groom. Okay, piss on the left. Did you were you able to avoid it? I didn't avoid it. I got it in November. I mean it wasn't awful. I was very fortunate because it's it's scary as many people obviously more than many people know because you go through it and then there's that sort of weight to see if you either get a lot worse or get best. Right. So, yeah, I got it. It lingered a really long time. Thankfully I was the only one who got it in my house. Weirdly I got it. My housekeeper got it and my wife didn't. So you can read into that. Let's just say a lot of questions which I coughed away. Yeah, I just I'll tell you in a minute. I got my way through that, and luckily I think I got away with it. But yes, and I'm getting the vaccine, I think on Sunday. So this is happening. Which one are you getting? Well, I'm going to get the I think the I think you don't get to chew, but I think it's the fighter. My wife's had the astroseneca last week. I'm just hoping the housekeeper gets the fire. One of the things that's been impressed me, you've been really actually productive during COVID. You wrote a book. Yeah, I've actually it's been all right. I wrote a book. I wrote a second autobiography. I mean what it begs the question, how does one write a second Orto biography? Well, it's exactly the same as the first, Or you're just picking up with the last one left off. No, it's the same. It's actually the same words, it's just a different cover. That's why it was so easy. Yes, it picks up where the last one left off. My Life Volume two. Well, yes, because the first one was called Life and Laughing, and I wanted to call it more Life and more Laughing, with a view to follow up still alive and still the final incomplete. It's my death bed, nearly done, barely alive and dribbling. But the publisher thought it wasn't good to do that. So at the moment it's called a Funny Life and they like it, so that's good. That's good at the moment. It's all the grammar and stuff, which is like I didn't realize. I was so hopeless, like words, I literally had an idea. I've spelt wrong the whole book Lead. I didn't know Lead was led. Yeah. I think we were taught it was la d wasn't it. Maybe. I mean I write books on leadership and I'm actually not one hundred percent sure. Well, I wrote it book on lettership. I've got this thing I like doing when I just put things on their own line. I hate too much text. Yeah, you and me both it just take a breath and take this in, so I'll just put it on its own line. Also, it means I end up with more pages. It's like a poem. I like writing in a manner that helps people read it the way I want it said. You know, ellipses and spaces and gaps, so that you're forced to take the breath, so you're forced to take in whatever the line is the next line. I love doing that when it reflects the way you speak, and it's your voice, and people need your voice and everyone can write, Simon, Let's be honest. I mean, writing is just it's just saying stuff, but written down. I mean it's not it's no great shape. No, I think it's different because otherwise everybody would just talk into a tape recorder and then have it transcribed, and that that would be a book, and those make bad books. Right. Well, I'm sorry, I wish I hadn't have done it that way, but that's one of Well, I think that's so fantastic that you spent the time to write a book and you developed a TV show, Like, how can you say you've been unproductive? I don't know how I know it On paper, it looks like I've been very productive. I had an idea for a TV show in the bath. I don't know why I always mentioned that I was in the bath, just because I was in the bar. I literally thought, I'm going to come up with a TV show idea. I wanted to come up with a game show, so I came up. When I came up with two, one of them was awful. Is it something you can talk about publicly? Well, yes, it's on the back burner. I mean we can can bring it off the bat. It was just a quiz show where the other person has to quickly ask the question and know the answer. So it would be me versus you. I would just give you a subject. You have to come up with a question. Let's try it. Let's try it. Okay. So you're gonna give me a subject and I have to come up with a question and an answer for myself. Yes, but I've got to answer it. But you have to know the answer. You've only got five seconds to do here. Is that under pressure, you're going to say something silly? Okay, to be honest, this is an idea I've not voiced outside of once after this bath. Okay, so I'll give you the subject. Okay, okay, you see it's even hard to think. I'm gonna give you the subject of, Oh, my goodness, of podcasts. You've got five seconds. How many podcasts have you done since before this one? You know you have to know the answer. I know the answer. You know how many podcasts I've done before this one? You know that. Now I'm gonna have to guess. I don't know. Three one as you can do. This idea doesn't necessarily have legs. I would like to try one. Okay, so now let me do it to you. Okay, I've got one for you. Okay, let's do zoos. The name zoo in London, the London Zoo. That's the correct answer. There could potentially be fun in this game. So you're winning. This is the idea. It didn't go for. The other one is called the Wheel, and so we made ten of those. We're making sixteen more and it's going to be on NBC I think early next year. Oh that's fantastic. Oh I have to see if I can watch it on BBC I Player or something like that. It's a really really fun show. We're going to, as I say, we're making more in a couple of weeks. That's really good. So I want to understand how you wrote a book, devised and produced and executed a TV show. Are you sitting writing jokes like you used to. I don't write jokes. I tend to write notes of things that make me laugh and then I just performed them over and over again in little gigs and build them up. So home life has always been very relaxed and you know, not high pressure and only creative. And I've just sort of dad and a husband here. Know that sort of disappeared, which is awkward, and I really wanted to come back. And with regards to working, I need to keep busy. And now that I finished the book and finish the TV show, I can feel myself getting a bit sort of confused about stuff and inarticulate and going slightly mad. But yeah, everybody was forced to a pivot. That's an American. We're all pivoting. Yeah, yeah, I didn't know about pivoting until an American mentioned it was a possibility. So I pivoted away from stand up and started doing the TV show. And yeah, I went back to writing a book. And writing is a lovely thing because your cocooned in your ow bubble and you can write rubbish but then fix it the next day, and it's a different type of creativity. Do you want to go back to life as you had it before COVID or do you think that this will permanently change the way you live your Showba's life. Well, we have to appreciate things more. I mean, it would be criminal not to appreciate everything. Should the world come back, because I think everyone was quite excited about appreciating the small things at the beginning, But now it's going on and on and on. It's getting really really serious. It's like, how far into this are we is this year one of five? Is it year one of ten? Is it? Are we nearly out? You know, every time you get a bit of good news, suddenly there's a triple mutated something coming in from in the year. It's coming in from Brazil, and it's just terrifying. It's humanity versus Mother Nature, absolutely is, and there's so much to learn from it. But whether we will I'd love to find out, which means it would be over. But you want to go back to sort of doing your gigs and doing your shows. You like you're craving going back to the way life was, or do you think that something happened, Because for me, I realized that I was on this hamster wheel and I was enjoying the speed that I was running. But one of the things that Covid did for me is I looked. I was like, oh my god, I wasn't running fast. I was just trying to keep up, and Covid stopped the wheel. The terrible thing is when you're trying to keep up with other people and you can't be doing that, What a waste of life that is. And that's the lesson I've tried to learn, because competition is a natural instinct. It's a drive, which is good, but ultimately it's kind of meaningless because, like you said, if you're always chasing something, if you're always I think that people struggle with is how much people need something to look forward to, and not knowing the future is really damaging to that because living in the here and now, in the presence, it's not an easy thing to do. We're not used to that. What we're used to doing is knowing something good is coming or thinking it's going to be good, or even if it's a goal, it could be a holiday or it could be I need to achieve that. That's such a great insight. That's like telling your kids, we're going to Disneyland on this date, and like the kids count the days down the excitement. You know, they have to get their chores done and get certain things so that they can go to Disneyland, because there's conditions put on the trip. But if you just said we're going on holiday one day, it's kind of a little unnerving, actually, And that's what we have. We keep being told we're coming out of this, and then the target keeps moving with regards to holidays. It's fascinating how that is what people are desperate for. But what is a holiday? It's something to avoid, it's it's a change, it's a break. And every single person who came on my game show, when I said to them, what would you do if you want that's every single person not to the holiday. They wanted to go to where you just said, Disney. They wanted to go through those gates into fantasy Land. If everyone's smiling at you, saying welcome home, smiley characters, and just stay there for a bit to not have to worry. That was what Disney's vision, which is a place to escape depression and sadness and the drudgery and grayness of real life and come to this place that was always bright and sunny and fine. I mean, that was his vision. Whether it's a reality or just a fantasy where he keeps people going, that's one of the many things have been taken away. But you still haven't answered the question do you want to go back to the life you had before COVID or do you think that there will be changes to the cadence or the way you live your life because of COVID. It's weird because I'm always complaining, so when I'm working, I want to be at home, and when I'm at home, I want to be working, you know. But that's also how I function. It's also what, you know, how I find things funny. It's it's that kind of mania in neurosis that creates comedy. I know, because I've had a lot of time to think that I'm happy. I'm happy as when I'm being creative and I've come up with something good. And I was able to do that a bit under these circumstances. But really nothing beats live performance and the instantaneous reaction because it's very cathartic because it washes everything away. You know, everybody worries about how they're being perceived, Are they on conform are they thinking right? To people like me, nothing is more magical than just saying something to an audience of people, and everybody you know confirms it and laughs with you. And it's just it's instant feedback. It's not like you have to write a book and you have to put it out. There's one person likes it, another person doesn't. Why you know you're on an Amazon Why is that person give me a two star review? It's just like that I said something funny. I thought it was funny, it was they're all laughing. Then I followed it up with more stuff that just came out of my head and I didn't mean to think about it. And it's just joyous and it fuels me. It keeps me going, and without it, I always go a bit weird. And now I've been forced to be without it, so I've had just sort of self confidence. I'm here to tell you still looking. I wonder if comedy will work socially distanced, because one of the things that happens when somebody laughs everybody laughs is like, things are funnier when you're with a friend. My test is something is really funny is if I can watch by myself and laugh out loud. That's like the greatest test of something really funny, because things are funnier with your friends, and so if you're socially distanced, the question is is will the laugh to spread across the audience like it does in a packed house? But it's obviously going to be more difficult, and of course the funnier you are, the more dangerous it is, because if you're physically laughing at you know, if you're not funny, if you're not super spreading right, you're sitting there slowly and calmly, breathing in and out, and then you're leaving early. No, that's standing ovation. It costs us seriously. So that but I mean, look a, it's a nightmare simon. I mean, and then think about masks. I mean, you're performing to people you can't even see them smiling. You just hope they have smiling eyes. And I'm a huge one for resting faces. I mean, I'm always scanning the audience and if anybody looks miserable, I starts. Really I focus in on them. Why are they not smiling, Why they're not on the edge of their seat, Why they are they why are they even here? Do they hate me? I start to lose my mind over it. But now you know that you can't even see their face. You know their faces are behind the mass. They're socially distant. I mean, it's like all my worst things in regards to before. You and I have different strategies. When I'm on a stage, and of course I'm scanning and I can see somebody looking very angry and disapproving, and then I see somebody else who's nodding and smiling and agreeing with everything I'm saying. I fixate on the person who's nodding and agreeing with me because it makes me I'm like, oh, this is going great, and my my energy goes up and my confidence goes up. When I focus on the person who's scowling at me, I'm like, this is over. I can't do this, And then I spend my whole time trying to convince one person. Well. I can't COVID when people go to the loo because I waiting for them to come back, because I'm always thinking they might walk out. Sometimes I accident, There'll be a mid joke and they'll come back in and go yes, because I was thrilled that it was they were so desperate to go to the loo, and it's not that they've literally just walked out. And not only that, I see sometimes they're in a couple. I'm like, I'm so awful they've left the show, They've left their part. Walk Oh no, they're back. I'm fine. No, I'm definitely viewing it in a more negative way, which is why, honestly, I've had the best gigs of my life. When I can't see the audience, I always ask for the spotlights just hit me in the face. I don't want to see anything. I mean, especially when I do the bigger rooms, I can't see a single person, and you just you relax, and you just you just you're dealing now with one noise. It's like you're one animal is laughter as opposed to lots of individuals. I find this so fascinating because we are the total opposite. I always request the house lights as bright as possible so I can see the people, so that I can make eye contact with somebody, so I can talk to a person. If I'm talking to a blank voice, what I want to do. My worst gigs are when the spotlights on them and the house lights are off. Well, you're obviously a much more positive person. Hence the your podcast that I would like to pug mine a bit of pessivism, which is also on iTunes or whatever it is. Also, the pandemic has cut short a burgeoning friendship. I mean we've only met a few times. You saw me in New York after my show, and of course that's when this was all. That's right. I came to see your show, right, what was it in March of the last year, Right, it was February February, so it's right when this thing was just beginning and we were just hearing the first report of it in the West, and I came to see your show at Radio City, which by the way, was fantastic. That was the last show I did, and I started that show by saying, as a joke, this could be the last show I do, and it was for a for a long long time and ongoing. I mean, I mean, it's absolutely wild, but it's an experiment, you know, if you look at aspects of it like an experiment and try and get the positives out of it, like when I finally get back on stage, and you know, and like I said earlier, we've we've got to learn from it, and you're going to help people do that. That's why you're so brilliant, is that you can get people thinking about the right things, which is so important. And also, let's not forget that the world didn't seem to be going that great anyway before as well. It's not like things everyone was flying, everyone was quite stressed, not really understanding social media's going crazy. I do think that when there's this kind of massive disruption, I'm a great believer in balance. In all clouds, there are silver linings. And for all of the stresses and strains that we've gone through because of COVID and the murder of George Floyd and what that started, that good comes out of things. And even though I think we're in a period of extreme stress and we don't know how things are going to pan out, there's a momentum and an appetite for things like police reform in the United States and really focusing on race relations in the United States and other places around the world. And what does happiness mean? I think, you know, I think that this is a big opportunity for us to reevaluate. Happiness is not just how much money we make in the promotion we get, but it's the time we spend with our families and the time we have to ourselves and doing creative things. The balance to too far for COVID, But I think it forced us to reevaluate, and I think that's ultimately. I think a lot of good will come out of this period of darkness and uncertainty. But that's the optimist in me. That's very optimistic. But having said all that, when we are allowed to leave our homes for good and this is all over, I'm going to feel like such a loser if I'm ever staying in. Can you imagine having I mean, I feel like I have to go out everybody. Can you imagine having to say the words, YEA, I'm just going to stay in and have a quiet one. I was like, I think we've got our fix. Well, I'm an introvert, so I've been planning my whole life for this pandemic. I always like talking about phones to you, how are you feeling about that? The whole obsession with mobiles because the problem of call to the pandemic is we've been forced onto our phones and to give up any sense of rules with kids and stuff. It's just like, what else are you going to do? Your usage got I mean your screen time, my person. I like the phone. I saw. One of the things that was great about COVID is people actually picked up the phone, Like people who would never dream of phoning and would just text. We're actually making calls to hear the voice of another human being. I love that, So that I think is great. You know, I don't think technology is bad. I mean I don't have a I'm not antiphone. I think it's the balance of technology in our lives and I think a lot of people were spending times with their family and watching TV, you know, which is great, and people didn't have the phone at the dinner table. They put it away. Well, I've certainly been on my phone a lot more than well it's are you texting friends? Are you playing games? What do you don't know? I'm just sort of scrolling around the internet, I mean at night. But the terrible thing is I'm sort of embarrassed about my wife and I have both on our phone. So something that wake up in the night and just start looking at my phone and I'll catch her doing it. There's a sort of glow you get to sort of give away bedtime glow in the middle of the night, and I sort of build a sort of pillow wall between us so that I can hide the fact that I'm on my phone for ages. Sometimes I'm holding it lying down over my head, reading and I fall. This is a leaf for ogageon. I fall asleep and the phone drops out of my hand. You know. Sometimes the immortal hands on my face wakes me up and then I just carry on scroll. I think that is addiction. By the way, my son his bedroom is above us, and we know that he's gone to sleep, because this is terrible. The phone falls out of his hand and lands on the floor. We can hear it the ceiling and I'll be like, oh, Luke's just gone to sleep, and we hear it go crash, and it's like, oh he's gone. Oh bless him. It's terrible. It is terrible, But you know, isn't it all? But you know will address that. Michael. It's such a joy to talk to you. I just I adore it. This has made my week. I just love the way you see the world. I just love talking to you. It's a constant, constant giggle. I just adore it. It's been very fun. I'm sorry about the Wi fi, but I think it just look I think we've all become a lot more patient with people's children running through meetings and frozen wi fi and turning on cat filters and not knowing how to turn them off, because you know, I think it's actually made us just a little more empathetic, and so I have empathy for your shitty WiFi. Thank you so much for having me on. And you're brilliant and you help people think it the right way, and you're an excellent person. And on that note, thanks, You're the best. You're the absolute best. If you enjoyed this podcast and you'd like to hear more, please subscribe wherever you like to listen to podcasts. Until then, take care of yourself, take care of each other.