A few years ago, I did an interview talking about millennials in the workplace that went well, It went a little viral. But now the most common question I get is what about this latest generation in the workplace gen Z. So I thought I would call David and jonas stillman. David is a gen X dad with his gen Z son, So let's talk about gen Z in the workplace. This is a bit of optimism. Let's talk about gen Z. So there was a period of time when I would stand on the stage or have meetings that one hundred percent of the time, I kid you, not one hundred percent of the time, the first or second question I got asked is what's with millennials? Right then that kind of went away for a little bit, and now one hundred percent of the time somebody will raise their hand and say, I'm struggling with this newist generation that's entering the workforce. Gen Z, you are a father and son. Jonah, you are gen Z. David you are not. And you have learned to help interpret the generations, in other words, for the younger generation to understand the older generation, the older generation to understand the younger generation. And the reason I wanted you on the podcast is because the world desperately needs whatever it is, you figure it out. You know. It's interesting because so I've had a whole career studying all the generations and for years Simon at literally every speech I would have, someone would come up to me afterwards goes, have you heard Simon Sinnet's talk on millennials? Have you heard Simon Sinus talk? I'm millennials. So it's so funny that, like to your point, we've had so much attention on millennials that no one was paying attention to a new generation gen Z. And so we knew this conversation was, you know, needed to be had, and thanks to you for helping us put it out there. Jonah. So people know how old are you. I'm twenty three, so I'm right, I'm kind of like dead smack in that gen Z population. That's a whole nother thing, which is there's no consistent definition of what a generation is. Yeah, you know, I take the old anthropological thing, which is a generation is twenty years. Yeah. Yeah, we look at it now, so you'll see ninety five to twenty twelve. You'll see ninety seven to twenty ten. And I think that you know why this topic is so interesting, like when we talk about it, is that gen Z is, like, you know, it goes far beyond just the birth years, as you know, So it's about the events that took place when we're kids, during our formative years that make each generation unique. Some people say it's every fifteen years that you can have different ones. Twenty years. It's still definitely a theory, but it changes. So that's kind of the biggest thing, Like what people are always hung up on birth years, but it really is what shaped the generation that makes it unique. So how would you define the iconic events or the state of the world that helped shape a gen Z mind A gen Z point of view. A couple of the biggest ones right off the top, right, it's the first generation to grow up in a post nine to eleven worlds, so not knowing a pre nine eleven world for their entire lives. A generation that lived through the core aspect of the two thousand and eight two thousand and nine recession at their most vulnerable age with their parents. Right, So you look at gen X parents, their net worth was cut in half statistically right around the times where most families are having dinner together. The conversations were about you know, where's the next meal coming from, how our companies sting right in the core of gen Z, a global pandemic, And most importantly and the biggest one in my opinion, would be just the era of technology, never knowing a world without smart technology always being there with anything's possible, Innovation is always happening, and technology has never not been there for this generation. How have those things shaped your worldview? I'll take a few of them, and one of them's kind of a bigger in depth rabbital, which is a good thing for a podcast. But the first one is gen Z approaches life with intense realism. Okay, so you have the millennials, who are often criticized in almost any scenario is entire you know, overly optimistic, and then you have gen Z that's intensely realistic. We know how much money we need to make, we know when we're gonna get raises, you know how much a raise is going to be. We're focused on financials, So approaching life with a very realistic attitude statistically at a young age, and then with intense competitive spirit, so like we're constantly looking for ways to get ahead in life, stand out, be different, get to that end goal faster. What is one of the negatives. So the intense pressure, Right with intense realism comes intense self pressure. So you take this idea that I have to make more money, I have to be competitive. When it doesn't happen, you feel that immense amount of pressure. So it's one of the most anxious written generation. So very stressed all the time, a lot of social pressure, tons and tons and tons of fomo. Gen Z is plagued by the fear of missing out. Initially, people kind of laugh at this idea of like, oh, just put your phone away, but it you know, research shows brain institutions are showing that, you know, gen Z has diagnosed signs of anxiety when removed from the outside world. So like with all this world with technology, sure there's endless benefits, but the downsides I would say it would be, you know, overarching stress to get to that end goal. You know, tons of conversations around mental health and what that has done for gen Z. And then I would say the inability to slow down constant change, constant innovation. Very hard for gen Z to just like stop and chill and not want something to continue to move forward brilliant. Thank you. So let me share some of the scenarios I've heard in the world, help me help people navigate these real challenges. Here's one. It's a generation that seems to be conflict avoidant, where they're more comfortable quitting a job without another job lined up than having a conflict with a boss, for example, like asking for a raise. I've heard many examples of someone who's too afraid to ask for a raise, so they quit, and sometimes with an email that says you don't value me, And very often the leaders are blindsided, like what we would totally would have given you a raise, we love you. A is that valid? And B if it is, how do we help both sides of that equation in that situation. I think it's important just to get started. The people who are probably complaining to you about it are gen xers and boomers. Part of the challenge is that they never came of a world where there's options. You know, you would never quit a job without finding out one because you didn't have things like LinkedIn no rate in front of you all the time, putting new job opportunities in front of you. So I think part of it to understand is that I don't know if they're conflict avoidant, as they're more quick to seize an opportunity because opportunities are put in front of them every single day. And so to me, a lot of it is less that they're avoiding conflict, is that they're seizing opportunities because they just can and they'll always have those opportunities in front of them. This is very specific where people quit with no opportunity lined up, but they're not worried about finding one. I mean they can find jobs or they're and it's the era of the side hustle. They can go make their own money if they want to sell something on Facebook marketplace. I mean, it's a whole thing that we have not seen with any other generation. Is this, you know, notion of side hustle. For people like you and me, it was called moonlighting and you did it on the hush hush just to make little extra dollars. But this generation has side hustles all day long. And in fact, a big aha for employers would be I guarantee you majority of the gen zers that are working for you have a side hustle going on. Guarantee it. I hear everything you're saying, David, I think that's fair and I think it's all true. But when there's opportunities, when you have a good team and good employment, where the conflict is simply I think I'm deserving of more to know how to have that conversation. Jonah mind missing something here. We know they want it right, They're hungry to get promoted. We know that the number one way to keep gen Z in a job is to show them the path to promotion. So I'd just be curious what those cultures look like. They are those gen Zers that are too you know, not willing to ask for that promotion being invited into any other conversation. Are they being checked in on are they gaining relationships within that culture, because to me, I would think that the answer that would be no, And those are the places where that's happening, and that brings up Actually, I guess kind of an extension and tell me, Simon, if you for anything about this is this idea of gen Z's lack of social capital, especially in the early stages of her careers, meaning especially if you were a gen Zer that was onboarded and started working at a company in COVID in a remote or hybrid culture, the inability to make relationships with key people in your company. Right. So, Simon, let's say we work together at a company. You're my manager. Our relationship over the past years, has been very quote unquote transactional. Right, you give me assignments, we have a zoom call, you tell me what I need to do, I go do it, you hang up. I guess we're both lucky if either one of us even turn on our camera. But we're not building that relationship that you know, my dad always says in the early stages of his career, happened around the water cool the proverbial water cool or thing like gen Z. Isn't getting that, so maybe they feel that disconnect and saying, you know, I don't even know who I ask. That's a great point. And I think your point also is a very good one, which is when I was young in my career, nobody talked about their salaries. We never compared salary. We're here a team of young kids. They all impair their salaries. Talking about money is not taboo like it was her older generations. I think you're right. With access to things like glassdoor and other resources where they can look up average salaries for a job spec. Let me play Devil's advocate for a moment. That's all fine and good, but then you're forming a narrative based on somebody else's experience and then making a decision for your own career based on what's happened to somebody else. Maybe when badeling for somebody else was the company didn't think they were deserving of it. I agree with you, like, I genuinely agree. Like resources like Glassdoor are very A to B right, Like you might have had a very different perspective just based on who your hiring manager was. But it goes, you know, earlier than that. It's like, in a way, it's always just been for gen Z the end of the traditional expert. It wasn't we got you know, we decided what movie we're going to see on based on Rotten Tomatoes, based on what my friend the common person thought about it. I could choose a college class based on the professor, not the course, right, Like right, there'd be hundreds of reviews at a public university saying, oh, you might not be interested in them, but take this class. This professor's awesome. Right. So, like we've had access to all that information before knowing an average salary. So it's like so rooted in our makeup that we can just make decisions based on other opinions. Great point. Great point. One of the things that is said about gen Z is that they struggle to deal with stress, that there are fewer coping mechanisms than older generations. Clearly it's not only this generation, but it seems to be the case for this younger generation. You touched upon it a little bit before A is it true? And B If it is true, how do we help gen Z better deal with stress and teach them coping mechanisms. Well, let me ask you what you said, they're less able to cope. How's that showing up, Jenna. I think you touched upon this earlier, which is we tend to see higher levels of anxiety and stress related issues, you know, anxiety, depression. Yes, it's a generation that's Thank goodness, the world is more comfortable talking about mental health and so some of it may just be that they're more open about it, which is great. That was kind of going to be My first point is yes one to answer question. Yes, statistically, gen Z is struggling with stress more than the other generations. It is the most stressed out generation. Like if you look at different research studies from different brain institutions, crossword is the most stressed generation. The positive side of it is that it's being talked about, right, mental health awareness, whether it be mental health days in schools, workplaces, across the ward, it's being talked about. It's being addressed. And the third aspect to answer question the solution. The first thing that we've seen work and I think it's so important just through research studies and focus groups with gen Z is help prioritizing. And what I mean by that is we talked about initially a little bit about FOMA, the fear of missing on when you're a generation that has had access to a smartphone with at any time on my smartphone, I could get an email from my boss saying urgent, need this done. I could get a text saying a family member sick. And I could also find out that France is winning the World Cup and my friends are excited about that. Right, Like all of these different aspects, how do I prioritize all that information as a mentor, as a manager? What resources can you help gen Z tap into in order to prioritize I think that that's something we've seen be really important. Of the levels of anxiety, I hear from the other generations the complete opposite. I hear like, I am so sick and tired of everyone saying, gen Z, they're so stressed out. My god, When I was young, they have no idea what it was like to compete with eighty million others. We didn't have all these tools and we didn't all these things. And I think the main thing to realize is that there's been a big shift from talking about your life. I mean, for exers and boomers, you left your life at the door and you went to work from nine to five, and you did not talk about home. And they all had mental health and they all had issues you used to talk about. So a lot of it is we're talking about a lot more because you know, work is at nine to five, it's all the time, So lives have been blended more into the workplace. And so I think it's really important for all your listeners that are older to be like, no, we understand they also had it. There's this a lot more permission to talk about it now, and there's a lot more resources to help gen Z than there were in the workplace, so where I think there's some validity. And again Jonah pushback in the argument that the generation has fewer coping mechanisms come also in a struggle to form deep meaningful relationships that because so many interactions with friends are via text and now picking up the phone and calling somebody is considered rude, and the single best thing we have to help us deal and manage with stress are our friends, somebody we can go to and say I am struggling. Broadcasting our feelings standing by yourself with your phone and posting it on social media is not managing stress or dealing with your struggles. But saying those exact same words that you're saying by yourself in your room to a camera to your friend is not happening. One could make the strong argument that, yes, there is struggle to cope because the strength of deep meaningful relationships is fewer and far between. I'm probably not even gonna push back because I align with most of what you said. A couple things that I'll kind of point out there. So in our most recent study, we found that nearly just under eighty five percent of gen Z say that they prefer face to face communication right this idea that if I'm going to communicate with something, my ideal way to communicate with them is face to face. And it's shocking when I tell this a speeches and different events, people always assume it's texting, you know, talking on the phone and all these different things. But it brings up this incredibly deep conversation. And like this idea of something that you hinted at, is in today's world, can a FaceTime conversation with your friend if you have an hour and you're uninterrupted and it's just the two of you be considered a face to face conversation. You are going to get crazily different answers amongst the different generations. A wild percentage of Gen zs would say yeah, I would say, ideally it can be done in the same room. But that's a face to face communication. I can see you, you can see me. We're talking to each other. Now, I get that that to the lot of people, that's a crazy concept, but it's it's tapping into you know, this idea of where and when communications happening, and you know, it is interesting to your point, like you're saying, the idea of voice almost No, that's not a conversation. But what if it is on FaceTime? What would you consider that? I'm curious to your perspective there. I think we're conflating looking at a picture of a human being and the intense nuance of body language, sure, the social languages that are ingrained in us as human beings, and how we learn to read each other. That when someone's arms are folded, you can't even tell that my arms are folded right now. So you're not getting any cues that I'm giving off to you that I'm disconnected or I'm putting up barriers. But changes with the friendship. If you know somebody and it's a would you consider different I'm out of curiosity if if you were having a face on conversation with a friend, would you consider differently than you know? Of course, because a FaceTime conversation with somebody with whom I've hugged and I've cried with, and I've joked with and I've accidentally offended and I had to apologize to their face. Yes, of course, there's nothing wrong with technology. Where this argument goes sideways as people blame technology. Technology is an amazing tool, but that's all it is, and it has strengths and it has weaknesses. It has opportunities, and it has costs. And I think where old generations think it's all broken and young generations think it's all perfect, the answer is neither. I'm glad to hear the research. The youngest generation would rather have a face to face conversation. But let us not confuse the ability to form a deep, meaningful relationship, the ability to pick up the phone and call a friend and say I am struggling, rather than send an eight page text. Yes that says I'm struggling. I would rather meet with you face to face, not because I think the conversation will be better, but because my feelings towards you and your feelings towards me would be better. This is a transactional medium. We are recording a podcast. We're having a good time, We're learning a lot. But at the end I'll turn it off and be like, oh, nice kid, smart. You know, whereas I'm sitting with you, you get all of the loveliness you know, and I agree with you, And I think that the difference for a gen zer, it's a little bit closer to an in person conversation than it is for somebody you know outside of gen Z. Isn't that what we need to communicate? Yes, of course it's a little bit closer, but it's not the same. I agree with you. So how do we help the youngest generation who may be struggling with mental health challenges? There were just daily stresses of life or friendship or relationships to know how to or find the courage pick up the phone and say can I talk to you? I'm struggling, or to knock on someone's door across the dorm room and say do you have a minute. And I think it's among yourself to make sure that that's happening right. If you have friends that you haven't checked in on, it's as simple as sending that text initially, yes, eventually pick up the phone, but thinking of you making sure you're doing okay, Hey, let's connect later this week. Know you're busy, happy holidays, whatever is staying on the radar is in today's world, we have no excuses not to do it right, to make sure people are okay. Do you have any data that compares different nations? Am I all studying Of all the generations, gen Z was the most globally similar, So that was actually pretty cool. And a lot of the reasons is, you know, events and conditions are sort of shared amongst them. For a baby boomer in the US, does something happened, you know, it wasn't happening in Europe or they didn't couldn't relate to it. But right now something were to happen really big in Europe or Asia, Jon and his generation room feel it's happening to them as well. So there is this sort of shared notion for sure. The only country that was less interested in face to face compared to this was in the UK. For whatever reason, gen zers in the UK were behind every other country in terms of wanting face to face communication. I don't know why, but that was the only one that was definitely uniquely different. This idea of shared experience around the world that makes you more similar to people around the world as you is really interesting and I guess the last generation that had that in spades was the Greatest Generation. We call them the Greatest Generation because they went through the Great Depression in World War Two. There was a common experience around the world, and you know, especially going through COVID and lockdowns, it produces common experience that maybe is lost on older generations, and the optimist in me says, if you have that clear understanding of people around the world as you maybe your generation as you grow older, like you're going to be the reason for world peace because you can actually relate to each other better, where for too long we've been very different and not able to understand each other. Could not agree more with that. I will say one thing that's very different though around the world about gen Z is that they're still being raised by different parents. Because one of the key factors Jonah talked about the economy, and he talked about technology and all these things that shape gen Z, well, probably the biggest influence on a generation is how they were raised. And XER in the US is still going to be radically different than an X or in other parts of the world. So that's where we start to see some differences, especially in places like Asia and some of these others, because one of the biggest influences on a generation was the parents. I mean, Boomers raised Millennials and gen X raised gen Z on the whole. And that's why you see big differences amongst them is because our two generations are so different. So clearly the relationship you guys have is fantastic. You work together. You've gone on this mission together to help the generations better relate and understand each other. David Parenting advice. How to help somebody of a young generation not struggle as much with some of the things that are universal struggles, or to have a competitive advantage because they have certain skill sets, like they're better at face to face conversations, for example, one hundred percent. You know, I think, first of all, it's understand you know, it's not right or wrong. The generation is just going to be different. I mean, it's sort of a fundamental piece. But the other thing too, I will say, it's I mean, give me an example. After a speech, someone will come up to me like, oh my god, my daughter sits on the couch. She's watching TV, she's talking to her friends, she's got her laptop going, she's listening to music, you know, and I tell her to turn it off because she's got to do homework. And I'll be like, how's she doing in school? Well, she's a straight A student. But it was like, I want to change a thing, you know. And so often I think people focus on the how, and you got to focus on the what, you know, Like how are they doing just because they'll do it differently than you, And so first and foremost focus on the what if there's a result you're not liking, then you can dig in a little bit deeper. But nine out of ten parents are trying to do is control how their kids go about something versus looking at the end result. And so that's sort of first and foremost and a fundamental that I find when it comes to parenting. So Junah, going back to you, do you fit this mold that you're talking about? What makes you the same as your friends and what makes you different than your friends? Where are you getting frustrated with your friends? Where are you looking at your friends going dude, we are behind? Or look how much of an advantage we've got. The biggest thing that I will get frustrated about is just the initial desire to complain about something without first fight figuring out if there's a solution when it's oftentimes like solvable, like I hear, whether it's in a snapchat group, a text group friends, and on a casual ever you name, it's just like I feel like oftentimes people are eager to just be like this sucks. Why can't we just do this way when it's like not that big of a deal. We could just solve it, you could just figure out the solution. I think that's like the one thing that I see that bothers me. And then I also think it like the thing that I'll say that I've I truly believe I'm good at is being present in the moment and when I'm doing something. You know, if I committed to hang out with a friend and hit in doing it, I'm I'm I'm content with that decision and not feeling like I'm missing out in a million different other aspects. I think that it's like that. I don't see that oftentimes with all my friends, Like your friends are not good at being present? I guess I wouldn't say, maybe being president just like being content with, you know, not knowing what's next, you know what I mean? Like I guess, so maybe it is present, like if we're doing something like Okay, we're here now, what's gonna happen, you know after dinner tonight or tomorrow or on Saturday, doesn't necessarily matter. We're doing this now, and whoever's here is here, and who's not here isn't here? Do you have your phone? With you the whole time you're with your friends. It would depend like if I if I'm if it's a Sunday and it's we're watching football and I'm with a couple buddies in the couch, Yeah, I'm probably on and off my phone texting. No, I mean when you're with a friend, where you're at dinner or when you're not talking to them. I would also say I'm really good about that, especially if it's a meal. That's something I was raised by, and I would give credit to my mom and my dad on this, as I was always if I took my phone out side, if I took my phone out at the dinner table growing up, it was like the end of the world. It was not only was the phone gone for much longer than you could imagine it, other things we're getting taken aways Like I've always valued, especially if it's around a meal, not being on your phone, not checking your phone, and if you have to check it, if it's so richly, you got to excuse yourself. Do your friends think that they're good at multitasking, that they can listen to you and be on texting at the same time. Yeah, probably, And I think that there's a big difference between being able to, you know, multitask and switch between tasks. And I think that's right. I think a lot of people think they're good at multitasking. They're actually good at just switching. But you're not present at both. You're not. I'm sorry, but no one's good at texting and setting an actual text and also listening to somebody. The data shows such thing as multitasking. I agree that, totally, totally agree. There's a couple of things that I love about your generation that's very different than older generations, my generation and older, which is one, you're very inclusive. Your default is I don't care what your sexuality is, what your gender identity is, what the color of your skin is, where you're from. I just don't care. The fact that you know that gender identity and sexuality are different things like that still confounds older generation, that those things are different. You just don't care, Like whatever, right. I love that it's and I try to hammer this all anytime. I like talk to people because people always ask what's the importance of, you know, diversity and inclusion for gen Z, whether it's like they're choosing a school or a job and it's like to your point, it sounds like initially like such a shock, Like you're right, you could have said it better. We just don't care. Just an underlining expectation, right, like if I go work somewhere and you're not representing people in the proper way, like we're just we're gone, right, It's just like an expectation. It used to be companies could hang their hat on that, and cultures would be like, would they hang their hat on diversity inclusion and you know, all these different things that we're responsible with the environment, And now you can't get away with that with the younger generation because it's just an underlining the expectation that those things are being taken tow Yeah. The other thing that I like about your generation that's very different from the accusations that are loved against millennials. Millennials were accused of being sort of slacktivists. You know, they complained about things well, you know, sitting in the back of their uber tweeting on their way to brunch. When you talk to people like, what are you going to do about it? When we're driving the conversation. For many years, that's what it was, We're driving the conversation, which you know, conversations don't change things. Action takes changes things. And your generation is a very activist generation. You organize, you protest, you're out there, you're boycotting. You know, your very very activist generation, which I find action is more likely to affect change than talk. Talk is cheap. Here's what I've learned from this conversation. Of course, every generation is different for all the reasons we've already discussed. And the best thing that we can do is lead with empathy instead of judging a generation based on how we see ourselves, and that goes up and down the generations. Rather to lead with empathy. And the older generations have been around a little longer, so you should know how to be curious and empathetic more than somebody who's nineteen or eighteen and still figuring it out. And so there is an onus. There is a responsibility in older generations to set the tone of what curiosity and empathy looks like and to try to understand where that point of view or behavior is coming from, rather than judge that point of view or behavior. And I hope those who have listened will be a little more empathetic and am a little more curious to those younger generations, and I hope that this work has helped them connect better with those who grow up differently. And I think the most important thing for us to learn is there are characteristics and attributes for every generation, but they're not strengths or weaknesses. Agreed, this has been wonderful. Thank you. If you enjoyed this podcast and would like to hear more, please subscribe wherever you like to listen to podcasts. And if you'd like to learn more about the topic you just heard, please check out the Optimism Library at Simon Sinik dot com, where you can get access to more than thirty five undemanded classes about leadership, culture, purpose, and more. Until then, take care of yourself, take care of each other.

A few years ago, I did an interview talking about millennials in the workplace that went well, It went a little viral. But now the most common question I get is what about this latest generation in the workplace gen Z. So I thought I would call David and jonas stillman. David is a gen X dad with his gen Z son, So let's talk about gen Z in the workplace. This is a bit of optimism. Let's talk about gen Z. So there was a period of time when I would stand on the stage or have meetings that one hundred percent of the time, I kid you, not one hundred percent of the time, the first or second question I got asked is what's with millennials? Right then that kind of went away for a little bit, and now one hundred percent of the time somebody will raise their hand and say, I'm struggling with this newist generation that's entering the workforce. Gen Z, you are a father and son. Jonah, you are gen Z. David you are not. And you have learned to help interpret the generations, in other words, for the younger generation to understand the older generation, the older generation to understand the younger generation. And the reason I wanted you on the podcast is because the world desperately needs whatever it is, you figure it out. You know. It's interesting because so I've had a whole career studying all the generations and for years Simon at literally every speech I would have, someone would come up to me afterwards goes, have you heard Simon Sinnet's talk on millennials? Have you heard Simon Sinus talk? I'm millennials. So it's so funny that, like to your point, we've had so much attention on millennials that no one was paying attention to a new generation gen Z. And so we knew this conversation was, you know, needed to be had, and thanks to you for helping us put it out there. Jonah. So people know how old are you. I'm twenty three, so I'm right, I'm kind of like dead smack in that gen Z population. That's a whole nother thing, which is there's no consistent definition of what a generation is. Yeah, you know, I take the old anthropological thing, which is a generation is twenty years. Yeah. Yeah, we look at it now, so you'll see ninety five to twenty twelve. You'll see ninety seven to twenty ten. And I think that you know why this topic is so interesting, like when we talk about it, is that gen Z is, like, you know, it goes far beyond just the birth years, as you know, So it's about the events that took place when we're kids, during our formative years that make each generation unique. Some people say it's every fifteen years that you can have different ones. Twenty years. It's still definitely a theory, but it changes. So that's kind of the biggest thing, Like what people are always hung up on birth years, but it really is what shaped the generation that makes it unique. So how would you define the iconic events or the state of the world that helped shape a gen Z mind A gen Z point of view. A couple of the biggest ones right off the top, right, it's the first generation to grow up in a post nine to eleven worlds, so not knowing a pre nine eleven world for their entire lives. A generation that lived through the core aspect of the two thousand and eight two thousand and nine recession at their most vulnerable age with their parents. Right, So you look at gen X parents, their net worth was cut in half statistically right around the times where most families are having dinner together. The conversations were about you know, where's the next meal coming from, how our companies sting right in the core of gen Z, a global pandemic, And most importantly and the biggest one in my opinion, would be just the era of technology, never knowing a world without smart technology always being there with anything's possible, Innovation is always happening, and technology has never not been there for this generation. How have those things shaped your worldview? I'll take a few of them, and one of them's kind of a bigger in depth rabbital, which is a good thing for a podcast. But the first one is gen Z approaches life with intense realism. Okay, so you have the millennials, who are often criticized in almost any scenario is entire you know, overly optimistic, and then you have gen Z that's intensely realistic. We know how much money we need to make, we know when we're gonna get raises, you know how much a raise is going to be. We're focused on financials, So approaching life with a very realistic attitude statistically at a young age, and then with intense competitive spirit, so like we're constantly looking for ways to get ahead in life, stand out, be different, get to that end goal faster. What is one of the negatives. So the intense pressure, Right with intense realism comes intense self pressure. So you take this idea that I have to make more money, I have to be competitive. When it doesn't happen, you feel that immense amount of pressure. So it's one of the most anxious written generation. So very stressed all the time, a lot of social pressure, tons and tons and tons of fomo. Gen Z is plagued by the fear of missing out. Initially, people kind of laugh at this idea of like, oh, just put your phone away, but it you know, research shows brain institutions are showing that, you know, gen Z has diagnosed signs of anxiety when removed from the outside world. So like with all this world with technology, sure there's endless benefits, but the downsides I would say it would be, you know, overarching stress to get to that end goal. You know, tons of conversations around mental health and what that has done for gen Z. And then I would say the inability to slow down constant change, constant innovation. Very hard for gen Z to just like stop and chill and not want something to continue to move forward brilliant. Thank you. So let me share some of the scenarios I've heard in the world, help me help people navigate these real challenges. Here's one. It's a generation that seems to be conflict avoidant, where they're more comfortable quitting a job without another job lined up than having a conflict with a boss, for example, like asking for a raise. I've heard many examples of someone who's too afraid to ask for a raise, so they quit, and sometimes with an email that says you don't value me, And very often the leaders are blindsided, like what we would totally would have given you a raise, we love you. A is that valid? And B if it is, how do we help both sides of that equation in that situation. I think it's important just to get started. The people who are probably complaining to you about it are gen xers and boomers. Part of the challenge is that they never came of a world where there's options. You know, you would never quit a job without finding out one because you didn't have things like LinkedIn no rate in front of you all the time, putting new job opportunities in front of you. So I think part of it to understand is that I don't know if they're conflict avoidant, as they're more quick to seize an opportunity because opportunities are put in front of them every single day. And so to me, a lot of it is less that they're avoiding conflict, is that they're seizing opportunities because they just can and they'll always have those opportunities in front of them. This is very specific where people quit with no opportunity lined up, but they're not worried about finding one. I mean they can find jobs or they're and it's the era of the side hustle. They can go make their own money if they want to sell something on Facebook marketplace. I mean, it's a whole thing that we have not seen with any other generation. Is this, you know, notion of side hustle. For people like you and me, it was called moonlighting and you did it on the hush hush just to make little extra dollars. But this generation has side hustles all day long. And in fact, a big aha for employers would be I guarantee you majority of the gen zers that are working for you have a side hustle going on. Guarantee it. I hear everything you're saying, David, I think that's fair and I think it's all true. But when there's opportunities, when you have a good team and good employment, where the conflict is simply I think I'm deserving of more to know how to have that conversation. Jonah mind missing something here. We know they want it right, They're hungry to get promoted. We know that the number one way to keep gen Z in a job is to show them the path to promotion. So I'd just be curious what those cultures look like. They are those gen Zers that are too you know, not willing to ask for that promotion being invited into any other conversation. Are they being checked in on are they gaining relationships within that culture, because to me, I would think that the answer that would be no, And those are the places where that's happening, and that brings up Actually, I guess kind of an extension and tell me, Simon, if you for anything about this is this idea of gen Z's lack of social capital, especially in the early stages of her careers, meaning especially if you were a gen Zer that was onboarded and started working at a company in COVID in a remote or hybrid culture, the inability to make relationships with key people in your company. Right. So, Simon, let's say we work together at a company. You're my manager. Our relationship over the past years, has been very quote unquote transactional. Right, you give me assignments, we have a zoom call, you tell me what I need to do, I go do it, you hang up. I guess we're both lucky if either one of us even turn on our camera. But we're not building that relationship that you know, my dad always says in the early stages of his career, happened around the water cool the proverbial water cool or thing like gen Z. Isn't getting that, so maybe they feel that disconnect and saying, you know, I don't even know who I ask. That's a great point. And I think your point also is a very good one, which is when I was young in my career, nobody talked about their salaries. We never compared salary. We're here a team of young kids. They all impair their salaries. Talking about money is not taboo like it was her older generations. I think you're right. With access to things like glassdoor and other resources where they can look up average salaries for a job spec. Let me play Devil's advocate for a moment. That's all fine and good, but then you're forming a narrative based on somebody else's experience and then making a decision for your own career based on what's happened to somebody else. Maybe when badeling for somebody else was the company didn't think they were deserving of it. I agree with you, like, I genuinely agree. Like resources like Glassdoor are very A to B right, Like you might have had a very different perspective just based on who your hiring manager was. But it goes, you know, earlier than that. It's like, in a way, it's always just been for gen Z the end of the traditional expert. It wasn't we got you know, we decided what movie we're going to see on based on Rotten Tomatoes, based on what my friend the common person thought about it. I could choose a college class based on the professor, not the course, right, Like right, there'd be hundreds of reviews at a public university saying, oh, you might not be interested in them, but take this class. This professor's awesome. Right. So, like we've had access to all that information before knowing an average salary. So it's like so rooted in our makeup that we can just make decisions based on other opinions. Great point. Great point. One of the things that is said about gen Z is that they struggle to deal with stress, that there are fewer coping mechanisms than older generations. Clearly it's not only this generation, but it seems to be the case for this younger generation. You touched upon it a little bit before A is it true? And B If it is true, how do we help gen Z better deal with stress and teach them coping mechanisms. Well, let me ask you what you said, they're less able to cope. How's that showing up, Jenna. I think you touched upon this earlier, which is we tend to see higher levels of anxiety and stress related issues, you know, anxiety, depression. Yes, it's a generation that's Thank goodness, the world is more comfortable talking about mental health and so some of it may just be that they're more open about it, which is great. That was kind of going to be My first point is yes one to answer question. Yes, statistically, gen Z is struggling with stress more than the other generations. It is the most stressed out generation. Like if you look at different research studies from different brain institutions, crossword is the most stressed generation. The positive side of it is that it's being talked about, right, mental health awareness, whether it be mental health days in schools, workplaces, across the ward, it's being talked about. It's being addressed. And the third aspect to answer question the solution. The first thing that we've seen work and I think it's so important just through research studies and focus groups with gen Z is help prioritizing. And what I mean by that is we talked about initially a little bit about FOMA, the fear of missing on when you're a generation that has had access to a smartphone with at any time on my smartphone, I could get an email from my boss saying urgent, need this done. I could get a text saying a family member sick. And I could also find out that France is winning the World Cup and my friends are excited about that. Right, Like all of these different aspects, how do I prioritize all that information as a mentor, as a manager? What resources can you help gen Z tap into in order to prioritize I think that that's something we've seen be really important. Of the levels of anxiety, I hear from the other generations the complete opposite. I hear like, I am so sick and tired of everyone saying, gen Z, they're so stressed out. My god, When I was young, they have no idea what it was like to compete with eighty million others. We didn't have all these tools and we didn't all these things. And I think the main thing to realize is that there's been a big shift from talking about your life. I mean, for exers and boomers, you left your life at the door and you went to work from nine to five, and you did not talk about home. And they all had mental health and they all had issues you used to talk about. So a lot of it is we're talking about a lot more because you know, work is at nine to five, it's all the time, So lives have been blended more into the workplace. And so I think it's really important for all your listeners that are older to be like, no, we understand they also had it. There's this a lot more permission to talk about it now, and there's a lot more resources to help gen Z than there were in the workplace, so where I think there's some validity. And again Jonah pushback in the argument that the generation has fewer coping mechanisms come also in a struggle to form deep meaningful relationships that because so many interactions with friends are via text and now picking up the phone and calling somebody is considered rude, and the single best thing we have to help us deal and manage with stress are our friends, somebody we can go to and say I am struggling. Broadcasting our feelings standing by yourself with your phone and posting it on social media is not managing stress or dealing with your struggles. But saying those exact same words that you're saying by yourself in your room to a camera to your friend is not happening. One could make the strong argument that, yes, there is struggle to cope because the strength of deep meaningful relationships is fewer and far between. I'm probably not even gonna push back because I align with most of what you said. A couple things that I'll kind of point out there. So in our most recent study, we found that nearly just under eighty five percent of gen Z say that they prefer face to face communication right this idea that if I'm going to communicate with something, my ideal way to communicate with them is face to face. And it's shocking when I tell this a speeches and different events, people always assume it's texting, you know, talking on the phone and all these different things. But it brings up this incredibly deep conversation. And like this idea of something that you hinted at, is in today's world, can a FaceTime conversation with your friend if you have an hour and you're uninterrupted and it's just the two of you be considered a face to face conversation. You are going to get crazily different answers amongst the different generations. A wild percentage of Gen zs would say yeah, I would say, ideally it can be done in the same room. But that's a face to face communication. I can see you, you can see me. We're talking to each other. Now, I get that that to the lot of people, that's a crazy concept, but it's it's tapping into you know, this idea of where and when communications happening, and you know, it is interesting to your point, like you're saying, the idea of voice almost No, that's not a conversation. But what if it is on FaceTime? What would you consider that? I'm curious to your perspective there. I think we're conflating looking at a picture of a human being and the intense nuance of body language, sure, the social languages that are ingrained in us as human beings, and how we learn to read each other. That when someone's arms are folded, you can't even tell that my arms are folded right now. So you're not getting any cues that I'm giving off to you that I'm disconnected or I'm putting up barriers. But changes with the friendship. If you know somebody and it's a would you consider different I'm out of curiosity if if you were having a face on conversation with a friend, would you consider differently than you know? Of course, because a FaceTime conversation with somebody with whom I've hugged and I've cried with, and I've joked with and I've accidentally offended and I had to apologize to their face. Yes, of course, there's nothing wrong with technology. Where this argument goes sideways as people blame technology. Technology is an amazing tool, but that's all it is, and it has strengths and it has weaknesses. It has opportunities, and it has costs. And I think where old generations think it's all broken and young generations think it's all perfect, the answer is neither. I'm glad to hear the research. The youngest generation would rather have a face to face conversation. But let us not confuse the ability to form a deep, meaningful relationship, the ability to pick up the phone and call a friend and say I am struggling, rather than send an eight page text. Yes that says I'm struggling. I would rather meet with you face to face, not because I think the conversation will be better, but because my feelings towards you and your feelings towards me would be better. This is a transactional medium. We are recording a podcast. We're having a good time, We're learning a lot. But at the end I'll turn it off and be like, oh, nice kid, smart. You know, whereas I'm sitting with you, you get all of the loveliness you know, and I agree with you, And I think that the difference for a gen zer, it's a little bit closer to an in person conversation than it is for somebody you know outside of gen Z. Isn't that what we need to communicate? Yes, of course it's a little bit closer, but it's not the same. I agree with you. So how do we help the youngest generation who may be struggling with mental health challenges? There were just daily stresses of life or friendship or relationships to know how to or find the courage pick up the phone and say can I talk to you? I'm struggling, or to knock on someone's door across the dorm room and say do you have a minute. And I think it's among yourself to make sure that that's happening right. If you have friends that you haven't checked in on, it's as simple as sending that text initially, yes, eventually pick up the phone, but thinking of you making sure you're doing okay, Hey, let's connect later this week. Know you're busy, happy holidays, whatever is staying on the radar is in today's world, we have no excuses not to do it right, to make sure people are okay. Do you have any data that compares different nations? Am I all studying Of all the generations, gen Z was the most globally similar, So that was actually pretty cool. And a lot of the reasons is, you know, events and conditions are sort of shared amongst them. For a baby boomer in the US, does something happened, you know, it wasn't happening in Europe or they didn't couldn't relate to it. But right now something were to happen really big in Europe or Asia, Jon and his generation room feel it's happening to them as well. So there is this sort of shared notion for sure. The only country that was less interested in face to face compared to this was in the UK. For whatever reason, gen zers in the UK were behind every other country in terms of wanting face to face communication. I don't know why, but that was the only one that was definitely uniquely different. This idea of shared experience around the world that makes you more similar to people around the world as you is really interesting and I guess the last generation that had that in spades was the Greatest Generation. We call them the Greatest Generation because they went through the Great Depression in World War Two. There was a common experience around the world, and you know, especially going through COVID and lockdowns, it produces common experience that maybe is lost on older generations, and the optimist in me says, if you have that clear understanding of people around the world as you maybe your generation as you grow older, like you're going to be the reason for world peace because you can actually relate to each other better, where for too long we've been very different and not able to understand each other. Could not agree more with that. I will say one thing that's very different though around the world about gen Z is that they're still being raised by different parents. Because one of the key factors Jonah talked about the economy, and he talked about technology and all these things that shape gen Z, well, probably the biggest influence on a generation is how they were raised. And XER in the US is still going to be radically different than an X or in other parts of the world. So that's where we start to see some differences, especially in places like Asia and some of these others, because one of the biggest influences on a generation was the parents. I mean, Boomers raised Millennials and gen X raised gen Z on the whole. And that's why you see big differences amongst them is because our two generations are so different. So clearly the relationship you guys have is fantastic. You work together. You've gone on this mission together to help the generations better relate and understand each other. David Parenting advice. How to help somebody of a young generation not struggle as much with some of the things that are universal struggles, or to have a competitive advantage because they have certain skill sets, like they're better at face to face conversations, for example, one hundred percent. You know, I think, first of all, it's understand you know, it's not right or wrong. The generation is just going to be different. I mean, it's sort of a fundamental piece. But the other thing too, I will say, it's I mean, give me an example. After a speech, someone will come up to me like, oh my god, my daughter sits on the couch. She's watching TV, she's talking to her friends, she's got her laptop going, she's listening to music, you know, and I tell her to turn it off because she's got to do homework. And I'll be like, how's she doing in school? Well, she's a straight A student. But it was like, I want to change a thing, you know. And so often I think people focus on the how, and you got to focus on the what, you know, Like how are they doing just because they'll do it differently than you, And so first and foremost focus on the what if there's a result you're not liking, then you can dig in a little bit deeper. But nine out of ten parents are trying to do is control how their kids go about something versus looking at the end result. And so that's sort of first and foremost and a fundamental that I find when it comes to parenting. So Junah, going back to you, do you fit this mold that you're talking about? What makes you the same as your friends and what makes you different than your friends? Where are you getting frustrated with your friends? Where are you looking at your friends going dude, we are behind? Or look how much of an advantage we've got. The biggest thing that I will get frustrated about is just the initial desire to complain about something without first fight figuring out if there's a solution when it's oftentimes like solvable, like I hear, whether it's in a snapchat group, a text group friends, and on a casual ever you name, it's just like I feel like oftentimes people are eager to just be like this sucks. Why can't we just do this way when it's like not that big of a deal. We could just solve it, you could just figure out the solution. I think that's like the one thing that I see that bothers me. And then I also think it like the thing that I'll say that I've I truly believe I'm good at is being present in the moment and when I'm doing something. You know, if I committed to hang out with a friend and hit in doing it, I'm I'm I'm content with that decision and not feeling like I'm missing out in a million different other aspects. I think that it's like that. I don't see that oftentimes with all my friends, Like your friends are not good at being present? I guess I wouldn't say, maybe being president just like being content with, you know, not knowing what's next, you know what I mean? Like I guess, so maybe it is present, like if we're doing something like Okay, we're here now, what's gonna happen, you know after dinner tonight or tomorrow or on Saturday, doesn't necessarily matter. We're doing this now, and whoever's here is here, and who's not here isn't here? Do you have your phone? With you the whole time you're with your friends. It would depend like if I if I'm if it's a Sunday and it's we're watching football and I'm with a couple buddies in the couch, Yeah, I'm probably on and off my phone texting. No, I mean when you're with a friend, where you're at dinner or when you're not talking to them. I would also say I'm really good about that, especially if it's a meal. That's something I was raised by, and I would give credit to my mom and my dad on this, as I was always if I took my phone out side, if I took my phone out at the dinner table growing up, it was like the end of the world. It was not only was the phone gone for much longer than you could imagine it, other things we're getting taken aways Like I've always valued, especially if it's around a meal, not being on your phone, not checking your phone, and if you have to check it, if it's so richly, you got to excuse yourself. Do your friends think that they're good at multitasking, that they can listen to you and be on texting at the same time. Yeah, probably, And I think that there's a big difference between being able to, you know, multitask and switch between tasks. And I think that's right. I think a lot of people think they're good at multitasking. They're actually good at just switching. But you're not present at both. You're not. I'm sorry, but no one's good at texting and setting an actual text and also listening to somebody. The data shows such thing as multitasking. I agree that, totally, totally agree. There's a couple of things that I love about your generation that's very different than older generations, my generation and older, which is one, you're very inclusive. Your default is I don't care what your sexuality is, what your gender identity is, what the color of your skin is, where you're from. I just don't care. The fact that you know that gender identity and sexuality are different things like that still confounds older generation, that those things are different. You just don't care, Like whatever, right. I love that it's and I try to hammer this all anytime. I like talk to people because people always ask what's the importance of, you know, diversity and inclusion for gen Z, whether it's like they're choosing a school or a job and it's like to your point, it sounds like initially like such a shock, Like you're right, you could have said it better. We just don't care. Just an underlining expectation, right, like if I go work somewhere and you're not representing people in the proper way, like we're just we're gone, right, It's just like an expectation. It used to be companies could hang their hat on that, and cultures would be like, would they hang their hat on diversity inclusion and you know, all these different things that we're responsible with the environment, And now you can't get away with that with the younger generation because it's just an underlining the expectation that those things are being taken tow Yeah. The other thing that I like about your generation that's very different from the accusations that are loved against millennials. Millennials were accused of being sort of slacktivists. You know, they complained about things well, you know, sitting in the back of their uber tweeting on their way to brunch. When you talk to people like, what are you going to do about it? When we're driving the conversation. For many years, that's what it was, We're driving the conversation, which you know, conversations don't change things. Action takes changes things. And your generation is a very activist generation. You organize, you protest, you're out there, you're boycotting. You know, your very very activist generation, which I find action is more likely to affect change than talk. Talk is cheap. Here's what I've learned from this conversation. Of course, every generation is different for all the reasons we've already discussed. And the best thing that we can do is lead with empathy instead of judging a generation based on how we see ourselves, and that goes up and down the generations. Rather to lead with empathy. And the older generations have been around a little longer, so you should know how to be curious and empathetic more than somebody who's nineteen or eighteen and still figuring it out. And so there is an onus. There is a responsibility in older generations to set the tone of what curiosity and empathy looks like and to try to understand where that point of view or behavior is coming from, rather than judge that point of view or behavior. And I hope those who have listened will be a little more empathetic and am a little more curious to those younger generations, and I hope that this work has helped them connect better with those who grow up differently. And I think the most important thing for us to learn is there are characteristics and attributes for every generation, but they're not strengths or weaknesses. Agreed, this has been wonderful. Thank you. If you enjoyed this podcast and would like to hear more, please subscribe wherever you like to listen to podcasts. And if you'd like to learn more about the topic you just heard, please check out the Optimism Library at Simon Sinik dot com, where you can get access to more than thirty five undemanded classes about leadership, culture, purpose, and more. Until then, take care of yourself, take care of each other.