Be confident. Build your self confidence. We're always told when we're growing up, confidence is attractive. Confidence helps you get a job that you're applying for. But where does confidence come from? Are we born with it? Absolutely not. We can learn confidence. And Sarah Blakely, the founder of Spanks, she absolutely learned how to build her confidence. And it's that self confidence that helped her build a company without any debt, without any investors, and she became a billionaire. Confidence is a powerful thing. This is a bit of optimism. This is such a treat for me because I'm such a fan of yours. I wanted to talk to you there. This is one of my face things about you. You have a kind of confidence that few people I know have. But you have this sort of quiet calm about you, this sort of self deprecating sense of humor. And yet I know how much you believe in yourself and believe in the things that you do. And it's that sort of belief in your direction that I find just well magical. Thank you. The question I have is were you always that way or did it build over time. I was born with it to a certain degree, and then there was a lot of work I did throughout my life to cultivate it even more so, like like when I was sixteen, Do you see how this is going to go? Right? Yes, I've been working on mindset since I was sixteen. I can really say honestly, I've been a student of not what to think, but how to think. And I had this revelation at the age of sixteen. You know, I had two things happened to me at that time in my life. One of my very close friends was run over by a car and killed in front of me, and my dad left home, and my parents got separated and ultimately divorced. And when my dad left home, he came into my bedroom and he handed me a cassette tape series called how to Be a No Limit Person by Wayne Dyer, and he said, Sweetie, I wish I was your age when I discovered this instead of forty. And then he left. And I think those sixteen year olds at Clearwater High on Clearwater Beach probably would have chucked that middle aged guy with the bushy mustache telling me how to be an no limit Person in the bottom of my closet. But I was hurting so much that I was open to it. And that's the hidden blessing for that, you know, there's always a hidden gift in the darkest of times, and my openness to listening. And I just started crying, was sitting in my bedroom as I put these cassette tapes in because I realized I'd spent sixteen years plus in school being taught what to think, but no one had ever taught me how to think. And I had this epiphany of, oh, my god, wait, I can control how I think, Like I can actually work on this and become a student of how to think. So I really started getting as much as I could outside of school that was teaching me how to not fear failure, how to you know, take risks, the law of attraction, visualizing my own success, manifesting what I wanted in my life, and then really, I think, more than anything, learning how to respond to what comes at you in life, Like there's so much stuff that's going to come at you in life, and the way that you think about it is either going to hold you back or propel you forward. And learning that was really enlightening for myself. So how did you learn to respond to things that don't go quote unquote according to plan? I feel like the combination of how I came into the world. I have had a deep center, like a deep sense of confidence about believing in myself if I feel like it feels right to me. And maybe it's a real connection to gut and intuition, because there's a knowing inside of all of us, and we get distracted from the knowing. But if I'm in connection with that knowing, it's almost like nothing can rattle meeh. One of the other things. I know that you have a mission to empower women as well, tell me about how you found yourself wanting to advance that mission in the first place, right, So I cannot pinpoint where that comes from. I sometimes joke it must be a past life passion. I didn't grow up in a family that was like, we need to support women. I think a lot of it had to do actually with watching my mom and my grandmother's limited options and sort of absor being that I felt they were being held back, whether they even acknowledged it out loud or said it, it was just this feeling that I had, and I just plainly see that the balance between the masculine and the feminine is so out of whack, and so I want to help it, and I entered an arena in business that the masculine really ruled. The feminine has really only been honored in this space. Not that long ago, when I started spanks, I had two guys come up to me and say, you invented something, Sarah, congratulations. You know, I hope you're ready. Business is war And I went home that night to my apartment and I was so sad, and I remember sitting on the floor of my apartment and saying, why is it war? Like, why does it have to be work? And I'm vowed to myself that night. I was like, I'm going to do it differently. I don't want to go to war. And I just honored very feminine principles in how I conducted myself and grew my business. And in the back of my mind, I was thinking, maybe I'll end up successful, And if I do, wouldn't that be cool? Because then I can show there's another way. Yeah, what are some examples of those principles? I mean, using vulnerability. I've been very guided by my intuition. I'm in a business group with guys and I would say things like, well, I'm gonna talk to the universe. I'm going to consult with the universe, and they like literally thought I was insane. And then as my business continued to grow, around year four or five, I found out later I'm still in the business group with them twenty years later. They're like my brothers. But they all told me they were placing bets how long I would last in business four or five years into its Simon, they all individually were pulling me aside and they were like, so, how do you talk to the universe? Tell me what you mean? But so vulnerability. I'll give you an example. I started spanks. I make butts look better, starting with my own. I took a picture of my own butt with cellulite and a pane in my pants, and then put my product on and showed it side by side and laminated it at Kinko's and stood in Neiman Marcus right like this store with the most impeccably dressed women, and I'm showing this image of myself. And over and over again, I had people say, you know, if you're the founder and the owner, and you probably should use someone else's, but like, why are you using you know? They couldn't wrap their head around the fact that I wasn't trying to say you need me, I'm perfect, I have a product for you. I was kind of like, we're in this together. This is what this does for me, And that was a real shift. At the time. As a consumer, I always felt like companies were talking at me and not to me. And I feel like there was a real fear among companies that if we put our guard down, like if we acted real human or kind of at the level of our customer, they might not believe we're credible, like that we're not the expert, and that they don't need our products. So I just stripped that all away, and then I had such a deep connection with consumers as a result. Simon Spanks didn't advertise for sixteen years. I became a global household name without ever advertising, and I truly believe it's because there was this approach to the consumer, that the women were feeling something so different and sharing it with all their friends, and that's the ad campaign. But this taps into this confidence that I adore. I think there's an irony here, which is people think confidence is being strong. Well, that's because there was no place in the workplace for vulnerability. Vulnerability was seen as a weakness to me, vulnerability takes great strength and it's the deepest way to connect with another human being, you know, Like I love deep connecting, whether it's a customer or a friend, and I find that happens the most when I'm authentically who I am right. How old were you when you met Jesse, your husband? I was thirty five. I got married at thirty seven. Did you want to get married prior? I wanted to get married and had you had a couple of full starts. Will you ever engage prior to Jesse? Yes, I was engaged before Jesse. I had many, many relationships that weren't right. I really wanted to be married, I really wanted children. I had a lot of this conflict inside of my body in my twenties because I would meet men. They would be really nice, they would want to get married, and I would feel like if I married them, I might not figure out my full potential. So if you married them, you wouldn't fit back up this. So I had, you know, all these opportunities to marry men who were very interested in taking care of me or just you know, very successful whatever. I would have this inner conflict that was so intense that would say but if you do that, you might become content and you might not ever learn your full potential of what you're capable of and what you could do. And it was like a knowing inside of myself that I almost knew that that would happen to me. I just was like, I need to find my way first, kind of. I was very determined to be financially independent. My mom and dad got divorced. My mom had been a stay at home mom all her life, and then I'm sitting at home with her and I'm a freshman in high school. When it all makes sense to you, I said, well, mom, you know what's your savings? You know I don't have any savings. Do you have a four to oh one K? Do you have a pension? No, I've been a stay at home mother. I was like, okay. And it was a really intense time for me, as a fifteen and sixteen year old girl to kind of absorb all of that. So you resisted marriage for a long time, So what was I resisted it, but I wanted it. I could spend time on a therapy couch about that. But it's all worked out. I found my husband in Vegas at a poker tournament. Naturally, go on, I don't think i've read in the story of how you and Jesse met. I met Jesse in Vegas at a poker tournament, and neither one of us played poker. And wait, so you were both in the poker tournament. Yes, that's even better. And then I just kind of knew. I was like, oh boy, I was like, this guy's in my movie. I never could see any of the guys I was with prior to Jesse in my movie. And as soon as I met Jesse, you know, he lived in New York, I lived in Atlanta, we were in Vegas. The whole thing was, you know, he was a non newer. I had started spanks, but I just I just saw him in my movie. I absolutely love that terminology. You know what it is. It's a very clever device to trust your gut. Because I've dated people and I've you know, I've liked them, and I thought, could I could I end up with this person? You know, I could I end up with her? And I play this game like, well, she has these qualities, but these qualities, but if I simply say, can I see her in my movie? The answer is no. Amazing human being right, but not in my movie right. And it allows someone to not have to explain why it doesn't feel right, but rather accept that it doesn't feel right exactly. It's a clever device. Yeah, you talked earlier about the law of attraction. How do you know that it exists? How have you been able to follow the law of attraction and listen to the universe. I have been calling on the universe to help me. It's visualizing. I will see something before it happens, and I will then fill in the blanks. In college, I visualized myself on the Oprah Show. I with one hundred percent certainty, saw myself sitting on stage with Oprah and we were talking and I was certain of it. And the next you know, ten to twelve years I called filling in the blanks. I had no idea what I was going to be on Oprah, and I actually was so excited. I remember in my twenties being like, I can't wait to find out what I'm talking to her about. And I mean I ended up at Disney World because I failed the el fat to be a lawyer. I was too short to be goofy. I'm the height of Chippendale, the height of a chipmunk. Then you know, then I sell Fax machines door to door for seven years. I mean I get kicked out of every office building all day long, every day in Claarwater, Florida. I'm living with my mom, like I'm dating the wrong guy after the wrong guy. And if you had told me off the side of the road in my Honda at any given moment in that time, I would have been like, with one hundred percent certainty, I'm on Oprah. It's going to happen. And then all of these things started happening, and I was on Oprah. If anyone whispered in my ear as a twenty year old at the you know in Florida that you're going to be talking to her about a new product you create as an undergarment, you know, It's like I would have thought they were insane. You know, I'd never taken a business class, I've never worked in fashion or retail. But that was a one hundred percent visualization. I love this because a lot of people. Look, a lot of people have told themselves they're going to be on Oprah right. A lot of people have said themselves, and a lot of people have believed it but after the second year or third year of selling fax machines, they start to doubt the vision. The confidence starts to go sideways because the timing isn't as they expected. And you sold set tax machines for seven years, it's a long time. That is al I mean the average person at that company lasted like six months. It was so intense. I mean you you got kicked out of buildings all day long. I mean I got escorted out of buildings because I had to do one hundred percent cold calling. So every morning I would get in my car and walk into businesses unannounced and try to sell them a fax machine. Clearly, you figured out how to sell somebody a fax machine. If you lasted seven years, it was brutal. Though, you know, what did you learn from that that has benefited you? Now? Oh my god, what didn't I learn? It's like one of the best things you could ever do to prepare for life. I learned how to get my foot in the door. You're really only given about thirty seconds to a minute, and I figured out how to approach someone in those first thirty seconds to a minute to get a possible chance. It was true sales, and I think sales is a really important part of life. I think, no matter or what you do in life, there's sales, right, selling yourself in a job interview, you're selling your kids to eat the broccoli at night, you know. And I got really good at understanding customers and how to communicate and listen to them and deliver and not taking rejection personally. Right, Oh my god. I mean I cried a lot. I mean I would get in my car after being like yelled at. You know, a lot of receptionists used to rint my business card up in my face as I handed it to them, and I just have to like take a deep breath and go, well, thank you very much, you know, if anything comes up, call me. And then I'd get in my car and I'd cry. But I was listening all the time to Wayne Dyer, Tony Robbins, zig Ziggler, Brian Tracy, Like you couldn't have been in my car in the nineties without you know, putting your feet on like fifty different cassette tapes that were people talking about, you know, how to think and goal setting. And I don't know, I just really I just was really drawn to all of that. I actually took it to my principal at Clearwater High and said, can we please teach this? I said, this is changing my life and he kind of laughed at me and was like no. I said, can we just maybe get rid of home mec like an elective, you know, like do we really need homec anymore? Could we make it mindset? And could we just play these cassette tapes? Because I couldn't get over what the impact had had on me and all of my friends, you know, Simon and I went Clearwater High, like I went to a public high school. They were always fighting over who had to be in my car after a party because they're like, she's going to make you listen to that shit, and it was always playing. And then you know, fast forward, like you know, ten or fifteen years and I'm on the cover of Forbes and I got all these texts from my friends at Clearwater High and all they wrote was, damn should have listened to that shit. That's so funny. You teach all that stuff to the folks who work with you. Yes, every new hire gets a how to be a no limit person because that tape series. That's fantastic. And do you still cry? Yeah? I still cry. I still doubt myself. I have days where I'm like, oh my god, I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah, so I have had to push myself really really hard to do what I've done. I've been terrified. I've been scared. I mean at every turn I was scared. But I always say, when you make what you're doing about something other than yourself, if your why is bigger than you, and for me, my why is about women and the feminine being raised. And so I found courage I never knew I had, and that propelled me to do things that didn't feel as natural for me, especially as a woman. But literally it sounds dramatic, but when I was like sitting in my rental car in Dallas and deep breath to go into the Nieman Marcus headquarters to make my first banks call, I just remember, I was always like, you're doing this on behalf of women. You're walking through that door for your mom and your grandmothers who didn't have this choice and this opportunity. You're walking through that door for all the women around the world who still don't have this opportunity. So get your ass out of the car and walk through the door. And like shaking in my boots. You know, this is significant because ultimately human beings are animals of service. You know, we're social animals, and to do something in the service of others we find courage. Where to do it for yourself, it's much more difficult. I like to joke that I'm very happy to let myself down, but I don't like letting other people down, right, But I also like how you thought about your mother and your grandmother. You know, the Marine Corps talks about this. They talk about those who came before us, that we cannot let the sacrifices of those who came before us go in vain completely because it's too difficult to talk about the abstract future. You know, do it for our children. Nobody makes the right decisions their children, that's interesting. But rather we're actually much more beholden to the past because the past is tangible. And so you kept invoking your mother and your grandmother. You cannot let their sacrifices and the things they gave up for you go in vain. You had to work harder so that their sacrifice was worth it. Yes, how do we teach girls to have your confidence? You know, I think that for one the more female examples out there that are really authentically vulnerable and not perfect and living a life that they might aspire to. You know, I want young girls to see themselves in me. Like when I was on the cover of Forbes, They're like, we want you in a suit, we want you with your arms crossed. I'm like, why does ultimate success have to look so serious? Yeah, and so not enjoyable, Like I really like representing my house is a mess. I'm trying to figure it out. And I put the cookies on the wax paper by accident instead of the parchment paper, and like all of this stuff. But then I feel like I have a chance for younger girls to see themselves in me. And if they see themselves in me and I'm not putting on a real front, then I feel like they might tap into something and say why not me. The irony is is that we need men to act more like you. Also, you're empowering women, but I think men have this tremendous pressure to put on the airs. You know, this is war, act tough, and I think one of the things that your example provides is no, no, just have fun, be yourself, let the guard down. All that artifice, let it go. And by the way, this is beneficial to a human being. I feel it's happening. Yeah, don't you feel it? Yeah? I feel a shift for sure happening for men. I think men are getting more and more comfortable and there's more permission because men have feminine and masculine energy. I have both in me. I honor both. Yeah. I could not have done spanks without the masculine energy inside of me. I just didn't want to do it by saying I will play by these rules and completely annihilate and squash the feminine. Yeah. You know, there are these traditional male characteristics as you talked about, like aggression, decisiveness, you know, and there is these traditional female characteristics like patience and empathy. And it's not so much that we need more female leaders. It's that we need more leaders to act like females, and women just happen to be better at that. I just think it's about balance. It's balanced, It's exactly right. I think our society is over indexed on masculine energy. To our detriment, rugged individualism and aggression and all this stuff. We just over indexed. It's not that it's unnecessary, it's that the balance is too far off. We need to recalibrate our society to find a rebalance of energy completely and everything you embody is not feminine, it's balance, right. And you know, as a woman entering the workforce, the women that came before me, they had to act like men to have even a remote chance to be accepted in that arena. So when you say in the Marines or in the military, you honor the people that come before you. I have so much gratitude for those women because those women played in the arena. They all had to look and dress and act like men. You know, got their hair shorten wear a pantsuit, right, But they paid the way for me to be where I am, and I was determined to wear a dress when I wanted to, and to paint my nails. I've done my journey very feminine and honoring that. I know. It's because people paid their dues before me. And when I think about timing, Simon, I mean, my mother is twenty two years older than me. So you think about timing, human beings have been on the planet. You know, depending on who you ask and what you believe, thousands of years or millions of years, either way, it's been a while and I made the cut. By twenty two years my mom was expected to be a homemaker. Her options were really, really, really limited. I mean the fact that twenty two years later I could start my own business and have this opportunity. You know, I have a board game hanging at Spanks that says the Exciting Game of Career Women, and it was Mattel. I think that came out with the board game in the mid to late sixties, right when my mom was getting married and everything, and there were five options. It was teacher, nurse, ballerina, social light, and flight attendant. Social Light was a career option, like, oh no, those were the options. So it's hanging here at Spanks because we have lots and lots of women that work here and there. A lot of them are in their twenties, and so just having them see that board game, they're kind of like, what is that? Like that wasn't that long ago? True? Sarah, thank you so much for taking the time. You're welcome, Sarah. Such a joy, such a joy, such a joy. Wishing you only the best and we'll talk real soon, all right, Thanks for having me. Bye. If you enjoyed this podcast and you'd like to hear more, Please subscribe wherever you like to listen to podcasts. Until then, take care of yourself, take care of each other.

Be confident. Build your self confidence. We're always told when we're growing up, confidence is attractive. Confidence helps you get a job that you're applying for. But where does confidence come from? Are we born with it? Absolutely not. We can learn confidence. And Sarah Blakely, the founder of Spanks, she absolutely learned how to build her confidence. And it's that self confidence that helped her build a company without any debt, without any investors, and she became a billionaire. Confidence is a powerful thing. This is a bit of optimism. This is such a treat for me because I'm such a fan of yours. I wanted to talk to you there. This is one of my face things about you. You have a kind of confidence that few people I know have. But you have this sort of quiet calm about you, this sort of self deprecating sense of humor. And yet I know how much you believe in yourself and believe in the things that you do. And it's that sort of belief in your direction that I find just well magical. Thank you. The question I have is were you always that way or did it build over time. I was born with it to a certain degree, and then there was a lot of work I did throughout my life to cultivate it even more so, like like when I was sixteen, Do you see how this is going to go? Right? Yes, I've been working on mindset since I was sixteen. I can really say honestly, I've been a student of not what to think, but how to think. And I had this revelation at the age of sixteen. You know, I had two things happened to me at that time in my life. One of my very close friends was run over by a car and killed in front of me, and my dad left home, and my parents got separated and ultimately divorced. And when my dad left home, he came into my bedroom and he handed me a cassette tape series called how to Be a No Limit Person by Wayne Dyer, and he said, Sweetie, I wish I was your age when I discovered this instead of forty. And then he left. And I think those sixteen year olds at Clearwater High on Clearwater Beach probably would have chucked that middle aged guy with the bushy mustache telling me how to be an no limit Person in the bottom of my closet. But I was hurting so much that I was open to it. And that's the hidden blessing for that, you know, there's always a hidden gift in the darkest of times, and my openness to listening. And I just started crying, was sitting in my bedroom as I put these cassette tapes in because I realized I'd spent sixteen years plus in school being taught what to think, but no one had ever taught me how to think. And I had this epiphany of, oh, my god, wait, I can control how I think, Like I can actually work on this and become a student of how to think. So I really started getting as much as I could outside of school that was teaching me how to not fear failure, how to you know, take risks, the law of attraction, visualizing my own success, manifesting what I wanted in my life, and then really, I think, more than anything, learning how to respond to what comes at you in life, Like there's so much stuff that's going to come at you in life, and the way that you think about it is either going to hold you back or propel you forward. And learning that was really enlightening for myself. So how did you learn to respond to things that don't go quote unquote according to plan? I feel like the combination of how I came into the world. I have had a deep center, like a deep sense of confidence about believing in myself if I feel like it feels right to me. And maybe it's a real connection to gut and intuition, because there's a knowing inside of all of us, and we get distracted from the knowing. But if I'm in connection with that knowing, it's almost like nothing can rattle meeh. One of the other things. I know that you have a mission to empower women as well, tell me about how you found yourself wanting to advance that mission in the first place, right, So I cannot pinpoint where that comes from. I sometimes joke it must be a past life passion. I didn't grow up in a family that was like, we need to support women. I think a lot of it had to do actually with watching my mom and my grandmother's limited options and sort of absor being that I felt they were being held back, whether they even acknowledged it out loud or said it, it was just this feeling that I had, and I just plainly see that the balance between the masculine and the feminine is so out of whack, and so I want to help it, and I entered an arena in business that the masculine really ruled. The feminine has really only been honored in this space. Not that long ago, when I started spanks, I had two guys come up to me and say, you invented something, Sarah, congratulations. You know, I hope you're ready. Business is war And I went home that night to my apartment and I was so sad, and I remember sitting on the floor of my apartment and saying, why is it war? Like, why does it have to be work? And I'm vowed to myself that night. I was like, I'm going to do it differently. I don't want to go to war. And I just honored very feminine principles in how I conducted myself and grew my business. And in the back of my mind, I was thinking, maybe I'll end up successful, And if I do, wouldn't that be cool? Because then I can show there's another way. Yeah, what are some examples of those principles? I mean, using vulnerability. I've been very guided by my intuition. I'm in a business group with guys and I would say things like, well, I'm gonna talk to the universe. I'm going to consult with the universe, and they like literally thought I was insane. And then as my business continued to grow, around year four or five, I found out later I'm still in the business group with them twenty years later. They're like my brothers. But they all told me they were placing bets how long I would last in business four or five years into its Simon, they all individually were pulling me aside and they were like, so, how do you talk to the universe? Tell me what you mean? But so vulnerability. I'll give you an example. I started spanks. I make butts look better, starting with my own. I took a picture of my own butt with cellulite and a pane in my pants, and then put my product on and showed it side by side and laminated it at Kinko's and stood in Neiman Marcus right like this store with the most impeccably dressed women, and I'm showing this image of myself. And over and over again, I had people say, you know, if you're the founder and the owner, and you probably should use someone else's, but like, why are you using you know? They couldn't wrap their head around the fact that I wasn't trying to say you need me, I'm perfect, I have a product for you. I was kind of like, we're in this together. This is what this does for me, And that was a real shift. At the time. As a consumer, I always felt like companies were talking at me and not to me. And I feel like there was a real fear among companies that if we put our guard down, like if we acted real human or kind of at the level of our customer, they might not believe we're credible, like that we're not the expert, and that they don't need our products. So I just stripped that all away, and then I had such a deep connection with consumers as a result. Simon Spanks didn't advertise for sixteen years. I became a global household name without ever advertising, and I truly believe it's because there was this approach to the consumer, that the women were feeling something so different and sharing it with all their friends, and that's the ad campaign. But this taps into this confidence that I adore. I think there's an irony here, which is people think confidence is being strong. Well, that's because there was no place in the workplace for vulnerability. Vulnerability was seen as a weakness to me, vulnerability takes great strength and it's the deepest way to connect with another human being, you know, Like I love deep connecting, whether it's a customer or a friend, and I find that happens the most when I'm authentically who I am right. How old were you when you met Jesse, your husband? I was thirty five. I got married at thirty seven. Did you want to get married prior? I wanted to get married and had you had a couple of full starts. Will you ever engage prior to Jesse? Yes, I was engaged before Jesse. I had many, many relationships that weren't right. I really wanted to be married, I really wanted children. I had a lot of this conflict inside of my body in my twenties because I would meet men. They would be really nice, they would want to get married, and I would feel like if I married them, I might not figure out my full potential. So if you married them, you wouldn't fit back up this. So I had, you know, all these opportunities to marry men who were very interested in taking care of me or just you know, very successful whatever. I would have this inner conflict that was so intense that would say but if you do that, you might become content and you might not ever learn your full potential of what you're capable of and what you could do. And it was like a knowing inside of myself that I almost knew that that would happen to me. I just was like, I need to find my way first, kind of. I was very determined to be financially independent. My mom and dad got divorced. My mom had been a stay at home mom all her life, and then I'm sitting at home with her and I'm a freshman in high school. When it all makes sense to you, I said, well, mom, you know what's your savings? You know I don't have any savings. Do you have a four to oh one K? Do you have a pension? No, I've been a stay at home mother. I was like, okay. And it was a really intense time for me, as a fifteen and sixteen year old girl to kind of absorb all of that. So you resisted marriage for a long time, So what was I resisted it, but I wanted it. I could spend time on a therapy couch about that. But it's all worked out. I found my husband in Vegas at a poker tournament. Naturally, go on, I don't think i've read in the story of how you and Jesse met. I met Jesse in Vegas at a poker tournament, and neither one of us played poker. And wait, so you were both in the poker tournament. Yes, that's even better. And then I just kind of knew. I was like, oh boy, I was like, this guy's in my movie. I never could see any of the guys I was with prior to Jesse in my movie. And as soon as I met Jesse, you know, he lived in New York, I lived in Atlanta, we were in Vegas. The whole thing was, you know, he was a non newer. I had started spanks, but I just I just saw him in my movie. I absolutely love that terminology. You know what it is. It's a very clever device to trust your gut. Because I've dated people and I've you know, I've liked them, and I thought, could I could I end up with this person? You know, I could I end up with her? And I play this game like, well, she has these qualities, but these qualities, but if I simply say, can I see her in my movie? The answer is no. Amazing human being right, but not in my movie right. And it allows someone to not have to explain why it doesn't feel right, but rather accept that it doesn't feel right exactly. It's a clever device. Yeah, you talked earlier about the law of attraction. How do you know that it exists? How have you been able to follow the law of attraction and listen to the universe. I have been calling on the universe to help me. It's visualizing. I will see something before it happens, and I will then fill in the blanks. In college, I visualized myself on the Oprah Show. I with one hundred percent certainty, saw myself sitting on stage with Oprah and we were talking and I was certain of it. And the next you know, ten to twelve years I called filling in the blanks. I had no idea what I was going to be on Oprah, and I actually was so excited. I remember in my twenties being like, I can't wait to find out what I'm talking to her about. And I mean I ended up at Disney World because I failed the el fat to be a lawyer. I was too short to be goofy. I'm the height of Chippendale, the height of a chipmunk. Then you know, then I sell Fax machines door to door for seven years. I mean I get kicked out of every office building all day long, every day in Claarwater, Florida. I'm living with my mom, like I'm dating the wrong guy after the wrong guy. And if you had told me off the side of the road in my Honda at any given moment in that time, I would have been like, with one hundred percent certainty, I'm on Oprah. It's going to happen. And then all of these things started happening, and I was on Oprah. If anyone whispered in my ear as a twenty year old at the you know in Florida that you're going to be talking to her about a new product you create as an undergarment, you know, It's like I would have thought they were insane. You know, I'd never taken a business class, I've never worked in fashion or retail. But that was a one hundred percent visualization. I love this because a lot of people. Look, a lot of people have told themselves they're going to be on Oprah right. A lot of people have said themselves, and a lot of people have believed it but after the second year or third year of selling fax machines, they start to doubt the vision. The confidence starts to go sideways because the timing isn't as they expected. And you sold set tax machines for seven years, it's a long time. That is al I mean the average person at that company lasted like six months. It was so intense. I mean you you got kicked out of buildings all day long. I mean I got escorted out of buildings because I had to do one hundred percent cold calling. So every morning I would get in my car and walk into businesses unannounced and try to sell them a fax machine. Clearly, you figured out how to sell somebody a fax machine. If you lasted seven years, it was brutal. Though, you know, what did you learn from that that has benefited you? Now? Oh my god, what didn't I learn? It's like one of the best things you could ever do to prepare for life. I learned how to get my foot in the door. You're really only given about thirty seconds to a minute, and I figured out how to approach someone in those first thirty seconds to a minute to get a possible chance. It was true sales, and I think sales is a really important part of life. I think, no matter or what you do in life, there's sales, right, selling yourself in a job interview, you're selling your kids to eat the broccoli at night, you know. And I got really good at understanding customers and how to communicate and listen to them and deliver and not taking rejection personally. Right, Oh my god. I mean I cried a lot. I mean I would get in my car after being like yelled at. You know, a lot of receptionists used to rint my business card up in my face as I handed it to them, and I just have to like take a deep breath and go, well, thank you very much, you know, if anything comes up, call me. And then I'd get in my car and I'd cry. But I was listening all the time to Wayne Dyer, Tony Robbins, zig Ziggler, Brian Tracy, Like you couldn't have been in my car in the nineties without you know, putting your feet on like fifty different cassette tapes that were people talking about, you know, how to think and goal setting. And I don't know, I just really I just was really drawn to all of that. I actually took it to my principal at Clearwater High and said, can we please teach this? I said, this is changing my life and he kind of laughed at me and was like no. I said, can we just maybe get rid of home mec like an elective, you know, like do we really need homec anymore? Could we make it mindset? And could we just play these cassette tapes? Because I couldn't get over what the impact had had on me and all of my friends, you know, Simon and I went Clearwater High, like I went to a public high school. They were always fighting over who had to be in my car after a party because they're like, she's going to make you listen to that shit, and it was always playing. And then you know, fast forward, like you know, ten or fifteen years and I'm on the cover of Forbes and I got all these texts from my friends at Clearwater High and all they wrote was, damn should have listened to that shit. That's so funny. You teach all that stuff to the folks who work with you. Yes, every new hire gets a how to be a no limit person because that tape series. That's fantastic. And do you still cry? Yeah? I still cry. I still doubt myself. I have days where I'm like, oh my god, I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah, so I have had to push myself really really hard to do what I've done. I've been terrified. I've been scared. I mean at every turn I was scared. But I always say, when you make what you're doing about something other than yourself, if your why is bigger than you, and for me, my why is about women and the feminine being raised. And so I found courage I never knew I had, and that propelled me to do things that didn't feel as natural for me, especially as a woman. But literally it sounds dramatic, but when I was like sitting in my rental car in Dallas and deep breath to go into the Nieman Marcus headquarters to make my first banks call, I just remember, I was always like, you're doing this on behalf of women. You're walking through that door for your mom and your grandmothers who didn't have this choice and this opportunity. You're walking through that door for all the women around the world who still don't have this opportunity. So get your ass out of the car and walk through the door. And like shaking in my boots. You know, this is significant because ultimately human beings are animals of service. You know, we're social animals, and to do something in the service of others we find courage. Where to do it for yourself, it's much more difficult. I like to joke that I'm very happy to let myself down, but I don't like letting other people down, right, But I also like how you thought about your mother and your grandmother. You know, the Marine Corps talks about this. They talk about those who came before us, that we cannot let the sacrifices of those who came before us go in vain completely because it's too difficult to talk about the abstract future. You know, do it for our children. Nobody makes the right decisions their children, that's interesting. But rather we're actually much more beholden to the past because the past is tangible. And so you kept invoking your mother and your grandmother. You cannot let their sacrifices and the things they gave up for you go in vain. You had to work harder so that their sacrifice was worth it. Yes, how do we teach girls to have your confidence? You know, I think that for one the more female examples out there that are really authentically vulnerable and not perfect and living a life that they might aspire to. You know, I want young girls to see themselves in me. Like when I was on the cover of Forbes, They're like, we want you in a suit, we want you with your arms crossed. I'm like, why does ultimate success have to look so serious? Yeah, and so not enjoyable, Like I really like representing my house is a mess. I'm trying to figure it out. And I put the cookies on the wax paper by accident instead of the parchment paper, and like all of this stuff. But then I feel like I have a chance for younger girls to see themselves in me. And if they see themselves in me and I'm not putting on a real front, then I feel like they might tap into something and say why not me. The irony is is that we need men to act more like you. Also, you're empowering women, but I think men have this tremendous pressure to put on the airs. You know, this is war, act tough, and I think one of the things that your example provides is no, no, just have fun, be yourself, let the guard down. All that artifice, let it go. And by the way, this is beneficial to a human being. I feel it's happening. Yeah, don't you feel it? Yeah? I feel a shift for sure happening for men. I think men are getting more and more comfortable and there's more permission because men have feminine and masculine energy. I have both in me. I honor both. Yeah. I could not have done spanks without the masculine energy inside of me. I just didn't want to do it by saying I will play by these rules and completely annihilate and squash the feminine. Yeah. You know, there are these traditional male characteristics as you talked about, like aggression, decisiveness, you know, and there is these traditional female characteristics like patience and empathy. And it's not so much that we need more female leaders. It's that we need more leaders to act like females, and women just happen to be better at that. I just think it's about balance. It's balanced, It's exactly right. I think our society is over indexed on masculine energy. To our detriment, rugged individualism and aggression and all this stuff. We just over indexed. It's not that it's unnecessary, it's that the balance is too far off. We need to recalibrate our society to find a rebalance of energy completely and everything you embody is not feminine, it's balance, right. And you know, as a woman entering the workforce, the women that came before me, they had to act like men to have even a remote chance to be accepted in that arena. So when you say in the Marines or in the military, you honor the people that come before you. I have so much gratitude for those women because those women played in the arena. They all had to look and dress and act like men. You know, got their hair shorten wear a pantsuit, right, But they paid the way for me to be where I am, and I was determined to wear a dress when I wanted to, and to paint my nails. I've done my journey very feminine and honoring that. I know. It's because people paid their dues before me. And when I think about timing, Simon, I mean, my mother is twenty two years older than me. So you think about timing, human beings have been on the planet. You know, depending on who you ask and what you believe, thousands of years or millions of years, either way, it's been a while and I made the cut. By twenty two years my mom was expected to be a homemaker. Her options were really, really, really limited. I mean the fact that twenty two years later I could start my own business and have this opportunity. You know, I have a board game hanging at Spanks that says the Exciting Game of Career Women, and it was Mattel. I think that came out with the board game in the mid to late sixties, right when my mom was getting married and everything, and there were five options. It was teacher, nurse, ballerina, social light, and flight attendant. Social Light was a career option, like, oh no, those were the options. So it's hanging here at Spanks because we have lots and lots of women that work here and there. A lot of them are in their twenties, and so just having them see that board game, they're kind of like, what is that? Like that wasn't that long ago? True? Sarah, thank you so much for taking the time. You're welcome, Sarah. Such a joy, such a joy, such a joy. Wishing you only the best and we'll talk real soon, all right, Thanks for having me. Bye. If you enjoyed this podcast and you'd like to hear more, Please subscribe wherever you like to listen to podcasts. Until then, take care of yourself, take care of each other.