Chris and Alicia talk to Elizabeth Paige of Native American Land Conservancy and Save Our Springs.  Podcast episode photo by John Fowler.

Chris and Alicia talk to Elizabeth Paige of <a href="https://www.nativeamericanland.org/">Native American Land Conservancy</a> and <a href="https://www.saveoursprings.org/">Save Our Springs. </a> Podcast episode photo by John Fowler.

Join Chris Clarke and a variety of guests as they explore the challenges and opportunities of the American Southwest's fragile ecosystems. Engaging interviews with experts, activists, and advocates on conservation, land management, and environmental justice. Science and sentiment, politics and philosophy, hiking and history, culture and creativity all go into defending the desert. Be forewarned: We are out to recruit you to the cause.

Join Chris Clarke and a variety of guests as they explore the challenges and opportunities of the American Southwest's fragile ecosystems. Engaging interviews with experts, activists, and advocates on conservation, land management, and environmental justice. Science and sentiment, politics and philosophy, hiking and history, culture and creativity all go into defending the desert. Be forewarned: We are out to recruit you to the cause.

Vital info on protecting our irrepaceable deserts

90 Miles from Needles: the Desert Protection Podcast

Join host Chris Clarke and guests as they explore the challenges and opportunities of the American Southwest's fragile ecosystems. Engaging interviews with experts, activists, and advocates on conservation, land management, and environmental justice.

Join host Chris Clarke and guests as they explore the challenges and opportunities of the American Southwest's fragile ecosystems. Engaging interviews with experts, activists, and advocates on conservation, land management, and environmental justice.

S2E8: Native Activism in the Desert (Part 1)

Chris discusses the intersection of environmental activism and political challenges with activist and investigative journalist David Helvarg. The discussion revisits Helvarg's prescient 1994 book, "The War Against the Greens," exploring the evolution of anti-environmental movements from the Wise Use agenda to current political dynamics. They examine threats to democracy, public lands, and global environmental activism amid escalating misinformation and violence. Listeners are given a break mid-episode with serene sounds recorded in Grapevine Canyon, Nevada.

Investigative journalist David Helvarg talks to us about threats to democracy, public lands, and global environmental activism amid escalating misinformation and violence.

S4E17: The War Against The Greens, Updated

About the Host: 

Chris Clarke is the host of "90 Miles from Needles: The Desert Protection Podcast." With an extensive background in environmental journalism, Clarke has covered renewable energy developments in California's deserts for KCET, a public television station in Los Angeles. His work is driven by a passionate commitment to environmental conservation and protection, bringing to light the complexities and challenges of implementing renewable energy projects in sensitive desert habitats. Clarke's expertise and dedication continue to inform and inspire as he navigates the intricacies of desert ecosystems and environmental policies.

Episode Summary:

In this episode of "90 Miles from Needles: The Desert Protection Podcast," host Chris Clarke offers a critical analysis of "Abundance," the new book by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson. The episode unpacks the book's treatment of environmental regulations and sustainable development, particularly questioning the authors' thesis of liberal states allegedly hindering renewable projects due to stringent regulations. Clarke, drawing on his years of experience as a renewable energy reporter, counters this narrative with on-ground insights, advocating for the significance of environmental laws. Clarke critiques Klein and Thompson's perspective that liberal regulations are obstacles to progress, especially in solar energy projects. With examples from California's renewable energy history, he underscores how the actual challenges often stem from corporate dynamics rather than regulatory frameworks. Clarke highlights the pitfalls of Klein and Thompson's book, arguing that it oversimplifies complex issues by selectively presenting data, ultimately asserting the need for a grounded understanding of environmental policies. 

Key Takeaways:

Environmental Regulations' Role:
Clarke challenges the notion that environmental regulations, like CEQA, are the main barriers to renewable energy progress, presenting evidence from California's solar energy projects.

Corporate Influence:
The episode points out the critical role of corporate influence, particularly from utility companies, in shaping the renewable energy landscape, rather than blaming public regulations.

Complexity in Policy Discussions:
Emphasizes the need for detailed and nuanced discussions about housing and energy development, contrasting with the book's broad brush critiques.

Grounded Evidence: 
Advocates for the significance of ground truthing and environmental laws in preventing unforeseen project impacts, contrary to the book's implications.

Desert Habitat Challenges: 
Explores the environmental and cultural challenges of renewable projects in the California desert, highlighting systemic issues outside mere regulatory concerns.

Notable Quotes:

"In Klein and Thompson's telling of how liberal regulation is getting in the way of renewable energy development, the actual history of renewable energy development in the desert never showed up."

"The function of these laws is to ground truth projects, to reduce the number of unanticipated consequences."

"[Rooftop solar in California] is having some issues because the utilities don't like it." 

"This book is a testament to the power of selective cherry picking of data in order to bolster an ideological argument."

"Abundance is essentially a polemic, an extended OP-ed, and in this climate, it's just not helpful."

Resources: 

90 Miles from Needles Website: http://90milesfromneedles.com

California Distributed Generation Stats: https://www.californiadgstats.ca.gov/

"Rooftop Solar Reduces Costs for All Ratepayers" report by the California Solar and Storage Association: https://mcubedecon.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/calssa_rooftop-solar-reduces-costs-for-all-ratepayers-2025.pdf

Mehdi Hasan and Derek Thompson discussing "Abundance": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTC5jKpYYNU

Zeteo (Mehdi Hasan's new news network): https://zeteo.com/

Rose Foundation report on CEQA and housing: https://rosefdn.org/wp-content/uploads/CEQA-California_s-Living-Environmental-Law-10-25-21.pdf

CEQA and Housing Production: https://www.califaep.org/docs/CEQA_and_Housing_Report_1-30-19.pdf

About the Host: 
Chris Clarke is the host of "90 Miles from Needles: The Desert Protection Podcast." With an extensive background in environmental journalism, Clarke has covered renewable energy developments in California's deserts for KCET, a public television station in Los Angeles. His work is driven by a passionate commitment to environmental conservation and protection, bringing to light the complexities and challenges of implementing renewable energy projects in sensitive desert habitats. Clarke's expertise and dedication continue to inform and inspire as he navigates the intricacies of desert ecosystems and environmental policies.
Episode Summary:
In this episode of "90 Miles from Needles: The Desert Protection Podcast," host Chris Clarke offers a critical analysis of "Abundance," the new book by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson. The episode unpacks the book's treatment of environmental regulations and sustainable development, particularly questioning the authors' thesis of liberal states allegedly hindering renewable projects due to stringent regulations. Clarke, drawing on his years of experience as a renewable energy reporter, counters this narrative with on-ground insights, advocating for the significance of environmental laws. Clarke critiques Klein and Thompson's perspective that liberal regulations are obstacles to progress, especially in solar energy projects. With examples from California's renewable energy history, he underscores how the actual challenges often stem from corporate dynamics rather than regulatory frameworks. Clarke highlights the pitfalls of Klein and Thompson's book, arguing that it oversimplifies complex issues by selectively presenting data, ultimately asserting the need for a grounded understanding of environmental policies.&nbsp;
Key Takeaways:
Environmental Regulations' Role: Clarke challenges the notion that environmental regulations, like CEQA, are the main barriers to renewable energy progress, presenting evidence from California's solar energy projects.
Corporate Influence: The episode points out the critical role of corporate influence, particularly from utility companies, in shaping the renewable energy landscape, rather than blaming public regulations.
Complexity in Policy Discussions: Emphasizes the need for detailed and nuanced discussions about housing and energy development, contrasting with the book's broad brush critiques.
Grounded Evidence:&nbsp; Advocates for the significance of ground truthing and environmental laws in preventing unforeseen project impacts, contrary to the book's implications.
Desert Habitat Challenges:&nbsp; Explores the environmental and cultural challenges of renewable projects in the California desert, highlighting systemic issues outside mere regulatory concerns.
Notable Quotes:
"In Klein and Thompson's telling of how liberal regulation is getting in the way of renewable energy development, the actual history of renewable energy development in the desert never showed up."
"The function of these laws is to ground truth projects, to reduce the number of unanticipated consequences."
"[Rooftop solar in California] is having some issues because the utilities don't like it." "This book is a testament to the power of selective cherry picking of data in order to bolster an ideological argument."
"Abundance is essentially a polemic, an extended OP-ed, and in this climate, it's just not helpful."
Resources: 
90 Miles from Needles Website: <a href="http://90milesfromneedles.com">http://90milesfromneedles.com</a>
California Distributed Generation Stats: <a href="https://www.californiadgstats.ca.gov/">https://www.californiadgstats.ca.gov/</a>
"Rooftop Solar Reduces Costs for All Ratepayers" report by the California Solar and Storage Association: <a href="https://mcubedecon.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/calssa_rooftop-solar-reduces-costs-for-all-ratepayers-2025.pdf">https://mcubedecon.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/calssa_rooftop-solar-reduces-costs-for-all-ratepayers-2025.pdf</a>
Mehdi Hasan and Derek Thompson discussing "Abundance": <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTC5jKpYYNU">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTC5jKpYYNU</a>
Zeteo (Mehdi Hasan's new news network): <a href="https://zeteo.com/">https://zeteo.com/</a>
Rose Foundation report on CEQA and housing: <a href="https://rosefdn.org/wp-content/uploads/CEQA-California_s-Living-Environmental-Law-10-25-21.pdf">https://rosefdn.org/wp-content/uploads/CEQA-California_s-Living-Environmental-Law-10-25-21.pdf</a>
CEQA and Housing Production: <a href="https://www.califaep.org/docs/CEQA_and_Housing_Report_1-30-19.pdf">https://www.califaep.org/docs/CEQA_and_Housing_Report_1-30-19.pdf</a>

Chris Clarke explores Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson's book "Abundance," scrutinizing its stance on environmental regulations.

S4E16: Ezra Klein's New Book Has an Abundance of Problems

Episode Summary: Join host Chris Clarke in this thought-provoking episode of "90 Miles from Needles" as he delves into the crucial humanitarian efforts of Laurie Cantillo and Humane Borders. As the border challenges unfold, Laurie discusses her organization's mission to provide life-saving water stations in the desert for migrants facing extreme peril during their journey to the United States. This episode sheds light on the often-misunderstood realities of border crossings and the humanitarian responses necessary to combat these challenges. Through vibrant storytelling, Laurie Cantillo and Chris Clarke engage in a candid discussion about the evolving landscape of the U.S.-Mexico border, addressing widespread misconceptions and the dire need for compassion and accurate representation of migrants. The conversation highlights the devastating impact of border policies and the unyielding resolve of those risking their lives for a chance at a better future. With insights into borderland human rights, as well as environmental concerns caused by border militarization, this episode offers an in-depth exploration of the human and ecological costs associated with the border crisis.

Key Takeaways:
Humane Borders provides life-saving water stations across the Sonoran Desert to support migrants, hikers, and even wildlife, confronting the severe drought conditions and inhumane border policies. 
Contrary to this administration's narrative, migrants crossing the desert to seek asylum are not an "invasion," but rather families and individuals fleeing violence and economic instability. 
The concept of "prevention through deterrence" initiated by the U.S. government did not deter crossings but instead caused thousands of migrant deaths since its implementation. 
Laurie emphasizes the stark reality that many Americans are misinformed about migrant communities, which are less prone to crime and more likely to contribute positively to society. 
Initiatives like Humane Borders represent nonpartisan, humanitarian efforts focused on human dignity and environmental responsibility amidst geopolitical complexities at the border. 

Notable Quotes:

“We're all human. We all need water.” - Laurie Cantillo

“The government knew at the time that people would die, but did not expect it to occur at the scale that's happening.” - Laurie Cantillo

“I would much rather have as my neighbor someone who would cross the desert to become a U.S. citizen than someone who just wants to slam the door shut on people in need.” - Laurie Cantillo 

“The only fear I ever have at the border is from far right militia and vigilante groups.” - Laurie Cantillo

“The wall will fall down of its own accord. Probably before I do.” - Chris Clarke

Resources:

Humane Borders Website: humaneborders.org
Humane Borders' mortality map: https://humaneborders.info/app/map.asp

Border Angels: Organization mentioned that helps families find missing loved ones. Website:https://www.borderangels.org/

Comparing crime rates between undocumented immigrants, legal immigrants, and native-born US citizens in Texas; Light et al, PNAS.org, https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014704117

Dive deeper into this episode to discover the revealing insights Laurie Cantillo shares about border issues, humanitarian crisis, and the heightened militarization impacting both human lives and biodiversity at the U.S.-Mexico border.

Episode Summary: Join host Chris Clarke in this thought-provoking episode of "90 Miles from Needles" as he delves into the crucial humanitarian efforts of Laurie Cantillo and Humane Borders. As the border challenges unfold, Laurie discusses her organization's mission to provide life-saving water stations in the desert for migrants facing extreme peril during their journey to the United States. This episode sheds light on the often-misunderstood realities of border crossings and the humanitarian responses necessary to combat these challenges. Through vibrant storytelling, Laurie Cantillo and Chris Clarke engage in a candid discussion about the evolving landscape of the U.S.-Mexico border, addressing widespread misconceptions and the dire need for compassion and accurate representation of migrants. The conversation highlights the devastating impact of border policies and the unyielding resolve of those risking their lives for a chance at a better future. With insights into borderland human rights, as well as environmental concerns caused by border militarization, this episode offers an in-depth exploration of the human and ecological costs associated with the border crisis.
Key Takeaways:
<ul>
<li>Humane Borders provides life-saving water stations across the Sonoran Desert to support migrants, hikers, and even wildlife, confronting the severe drought conditions and inhumane border policies.&nbsp;</li>
<li>Contrary to this administration's narrative, migrants crossing the desert to seek asylum are not an "invasion," but rather families and individuals fleeing violence and economic instability.&nbsp;</li>
<li>The concept of "prevention through deterrence" initiated by the U.S. government did not deter crossings but instead caused thousands of migrant deaths since its implementation.&nbsp;</li>
<li>Laurie emphasizes the stark reality that many Americans are misinformed about migrant communities, which are less prone to crime and more likely to contribute positively to society.&nbsp;</li>
<li>Initiatives like Humane Borders represent nonpartisan, humanitarian efforts focused on human dignity and environmental responsibility amidst geopolitical complexities at the border.&nbsp;</li>
</ul>
Notable Quotes:
&ldquo;We're all human. We all need water.&rdquo; - Laurie Cantillo
&ldquo;The government knew at the time that people would die, but did not expect it to occur at the scale that's happening.&rdquo; - Laurie Cantillo
&ldquo;I would much rather have as my neighbor someone who would cross the desert to become a U.S. citizen than someone who just wants to slam the door shut on people in need.&rdquo; - Laurie Cantillo&nbsp;
&ldquo;The only fear I ever have at the border is from far right militia and vigilante groups.&rdquo; - Laurie Cantillo
&ldquo;The wall will fall down of its own accord. Probably before I do.&rdquo; - Chris Clarke
Resources:
Humane Borders Website:&nbsp;<a href="http://humaneborders.org">humaneborders.org</a> Humane Borders' mortality map: <a href="https://humaneborders.info/app/map.asp">https://humaneborders.info/app/map.asp</a>
Border Angels: Organization mentioned that helps families find missing loved ones. Website:<a href="https://www.borderangels.org/"> </a><a href="https://www.borderangels.org/">https://www.borderangels.org/</a>
Comparing crime rates between undocumented immigrants, legal immigrants, and native-born US citizens in Texas; Light et al, PNAS.org, <a href="https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014704117">https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014704117</a>
Dive deeper into this episode to discover the revealing insights Laurie Cantillo shares about border issues, humanitarian crisis, and the heightened militarization impacting both human lives and biodiversity at the U.S.-Mexico border.

Chris interviews Laurie Cantillo, Chair of Humane Borders. They discuss the organization's critical work in saving lives by providing water in the Sonoran Desert, the challenges faced by migrants, and the alarming militarization of the US-Mexico border.

S2E8: Native Activism in the Desert (Part 1)

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