From Schwartz Media. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am. Most Australians have been targeted by a scam attempt from spamy text messages to intricate love fraud, with billions stolen. But behind these attacks is a highly organized and secretive industry fueled by human trafficking. It's believed hundreds of thousands of people are being held against their will in so called scam factories across Southeast Asia, in Nyanmar, Cambodia and the Philippines. Many are run by Chinese linked gangs operating in border regions where laws are weaker. Ben Yo has seen firsthand how these compounds operate. In early twenty twenty four, he was kidnapped trapped in a Cambodian based scam factory. Today, Ben Yo on how he escaped the scam compounds and why so many others struggle to get out. It's Tuesday, March eleven. Well, first of all, thank you again for coming on the show and for talking to me. I really appreciate it.

From Schwartz Media. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am. Most Australians have been targeted by a scam attempt from spamy text messages to intricate love fraud, with billions stolen. But behind these attacks is a highly organized and secretive industry fueled by human trafficking. It's believed hundreds of thousands of people are being held against their will in so called scam factories across Southeast Asia, in Nyanmar, Cambodia and the Philippines. Many are run by Chinese linked gangs operating in border regions where laws are weaker. Ben Yo has seen firsthand how these compounds operate. In early twenty twenty four, he was kidnapped trapped in a Cambodian based scam factory. Today, Ben Yo on how he escaped the scam compounds and why so many others struggle to get out. It's Tuesday, March eleven. Well, first of all, thank you again for coming on the show and for talking to me. I really appreciate it.

You're welcome, we'll welcome. Sorry, I'm a bit nervous this morning.

You're welcome, we'll welcome. Sorry, I'm a bit nervous this morning.

No, that's okay, it's very understandable. So to begin with, had you ever heard about scam compounds before.

No, that's okay, it's very understandable. So to begin with, had you ever heard about scam compounds before.

I have heard of these compounds, but I didn't know that it was so widespread. But I didn't know there was like few hundred thousand people working in the industry there, so not until I actually got into one myself.

I have heard of these compounds, but I didn't know that it was so widespread. But I didn't know there was like few hundred thousand people working in the industry there, so not until I actually got into one myself.

Yeah, and I suppose you would never have thought something like this would happen to you.

Yeah, and I suppose you would never have thought something like this would happen to you.

Oh, of course never.

Oh, of course never.

Ben's ordeal started in early twenty twenty four, shortly after he got married. Ben's Malaysian and his new wife is Filipino, and they were looking for a change in scenery in a third country. Until that point, Ben was a freelance business consultant who had worked across Southeast Asia, but after that work began to dry up during COVID, he was open to something new.

Ben's ordeal started in early twenty twenty four, shortly after he got married. Ben's Malaysian and his new wife is Filipino, and they were looking for a change in scenery in a third country. Until that point, Ben was a freelance business consultant who had worked across Southeast Asia, but after that work began to dry up during COVID, he was open to something new.

So what happened was me and my wife we decided to, you know, go to Cambodia to start our life over there. And so my wife, she was a croupiers, she's a casino dealer. She does like black jack and poker, and she got a friend who introduced her to this job posting on a human resource agency. One of the ads was croupier and the other says business development. So we responded to the ad. They did a first interview, second interview. They were quite convincing. They asked all the right questions which a normal hit shiveled us, you know, and they talk about our salary and stuff like that.

So what happened was me and my wife we decided to, you know, go to Cambodia to start our life over there. And so my wife, she was a croupiers, she's a casino dealer. She does like black jack and poker, and she got a friend who introduced her to this job posting on a human resource agency. One of the ads was croupier and the other says business development. So we responded to the ad. They did a first interview, second interview. They were quite convincing. They asked all the right questions which a normal hit shiveled us, you know, and they talk about our salary and stuff like that.

Ben also looked into the company who owned the casino and saw they had all the right government of provals and licenses. There was nothing to suggest the job wasn't real.

Ben also looked into the company who owned the casino and saw they had all the right government of provals and licenses. There was nothing to suggest the job wasn't real.

I felt hopeful at that point, you know, I thought we were going to a country which I know, I'm familiar with, I speak the language, so you know, I was kind of confident. Before leaving for Cambodia. We gave up the house, you know, I saw my car. We thought that we'll be there for a couple of years, you.

I felt hopeful at that point, you know, I thought we were going to a country which I know, I'm familiar with, I speak the language, so you know, I was kind of confident. Before leaving for Cambodia. We gave up the house, you know, I saw my car. We thought that we'll be there for a couple of years, you.

Know, okay, And so then what happened next.

Know, okay, And so then what happened next.

So we got on a plane, we flew down to Cambodia. They told us there would be pick up at the airport. And when they picked us up and drove to this place called Bavette, which is about three three to four hours drive away. It's just right at the Vietnam border. So another reason why we felt that the job was real was because Bavett is a especial economic zone for casinos. But when we got to Bavette, they brought us to a compound which is behind the casinos. The archers to the compound was about two stories high, barbed wired. It was heavily guarded, just like a prison, you know. So they told us before going in. They told us it was just like the staff quarters, you know, And so we believed him and we walked in just like that. And when the dog closed on us, it brought us to our quarters. And from there they told us that the job that you applied for it was just a lie. You are now in a scam camp. And if he wanted to go home and we want to leave, we have to pay them to the tune of ten thousand US dollars.

So we got on a plane, we flew down to Cambodia. They told us there would be pick up at the airport. And when they picked us up and drove to this place called Bavette, which is about three three to four hours drive away. It's just right at the Vietnam border. So another reason why we felt that the job was real was because Bavett is a especial economic zone for casinos. But when we got to Bavette, they brought us to a compound which is behind the casinos. The archers to the compound was about two stories high, barbed wired. It was heavily guarded, just like a prison, you know. So they told us before going in. They told us it was just like the staff quarters, you know, And so we believed him and we walked in just like that. And when the dog closed on us, it brought us to our quarters. And from there they told us that the job that you applied for it was just a lie. You are now in a scam camp. And if he wanted to go home and we want to leave, we have to pay them to the tune of ten thousand US dollars.

That must have been a very frightening moment for you and for your wife realized that you couldn't leave the compound.

That must have been a very frightening moment for you and for your wife realized that you couldn't leave the compound.

Yes, it was quite quite shocking, and you know, we couldn't sleep for about three days. I think we tried to take all of it in. You know, watch how other people behave.

Yes, it was quite quite shocking, and you know, we couldn't sleep for about three days. I think we tried to take all of it in. You know, watch how other people behave.

Were other people also tricked like you?

Were other people also tricked like you?

I think half of them at least were scamming to the compound, but most of them was from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal. Some of them applied as a nurse, some of them are as teachers, I think engineers, it workers. Most of them didn't have a choice. Most of them are stuck there.

I think half of them at least were scamming to the compound, but most of them was from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal. Some of them applied as a nurse, some of them are as teachers, I think engineers, it workers. Most of them didn't have a choice. Most of them are stuck there.

You know, they were stuck inside a self contained city. It even had its own grocery store. The compound had around two hundred bungalows which each housed about fifty people. And it's from these compounds that workers are forced to run cyber scams on grueling shifts with tough targets. Each compound specialized in a different scam. For example, there are entire compounds dedicated to scamming Australians using love fraud. But Ben says he and his wife found themselves in a compound of targeting people in India with a credit card scam and that some local police were in on the scam.

You know, they were stuck inside a self contained city. It even had its own grocery store. The compound had around two hundred bungalows which each housed about fifty people. And it's from these compounds that workers are forced to run cyber scams on grueling shifts with tough targets. Each compound specialized in a different scam. For example, there are entire compounds dedicated to scamming Australians using love fraud. But Ben says he and his wife found themselves in a compound of targeting people in India with a credit card scam and that some local police were in on the scam.

So they were called the Indian people do a spam call and informed the victim that he has a outstanding balance with his credit card. So from credit card department, they were passed to the police and the police were frightening them saying that you know their bank account has been linked to drugs or murders and things like that, and that's how they you know, pray on the week.

So they were called the Indian people do a spam call and informed the victim that he has a outstanding balance with his credit card. So from credit card department, they were passed to the police and the police were frightening them saying that you know their bank account has been linked to drugs or murders and things like that, and that's how they you know, pray on the week.

At first, because of his language skills, Ben was asked to teach the other workers English, but he says after two weeks it was his turn to pick up the phone and start scamming. But Ben refused to cooperate, and that's when the guards turned violent.

At first, because of his language skills, Ben was asked to teach the other workers English, but he says after two weeks it was his turn to pick up the phone and start scamming. But Ben refused to cooperate, and that's when the guards turned violent.

They isolated us, me and my wife. They finally brought me into a room which especially made prison, so they cuffed me to the floor. They handcuffed me to the floor so I couldn't stand of didn't give me water and food. It was really it was really challenging and at time, because I'm worried for my wife. You know, I was handcuffed, there were so many.

They isolated us, me and my wife. They finally brought me into a room which especially made prison, so they cuffed me to the floor. They handcuffed me to the floor so I couldn't stand of didn't give me water and food. It was really it was really challenging and at time, because I'm worried for my wife. You know, I was handcuffed, there were so many.

Guards and what were they saying to you about what they wanted you to do to make that end?

Guards and what were they saying to you about what they wanted you to do to make that end?

They wanted me to pay twenty thousand US dollars for them to release me and my wife. All I could do was pray, you know, in the darkest hours. I think that's where you know, I found God.

They wanted me to pay twenty thousand US dollars for them to release me and my wife. All I could do was pray, you know, in the darkest hours. I think that's where you know, I found God.

Coming up after the break, how Ben and his wife escaped.

Coming up after the break, how Ben and his wife escaped.

Hi, I'm Daniel James seven Am tell stories that need to be told. And journalism is founded on trust and independence, and now we're increasing our coverage. Every Saturday until the election, will bring you an extra episode to break down the biggest political moments of the work. If you enjoy seven Am, the best way you can support us is by making a contribution at seven am podcast dot com dou slash support. Thanks for listening and supporting our work.

Hi, I'm Daniel James seven Am tell stories that need to be told. And journalism is founded on trust and independence, and now we're increasing our coverage. Every Saturday until the election, will bring you an extra episode to break down the biggest political moments of the work. If you enjoy seven Am, the best way you can support us is by making a contribution at seven am podcast dot com dou slash support. Thanks for listening and supporting our work.

Ben, You were held in isolation for ten days because you refused to do any scams. You were essentially held to ransom. How did you actually manage to get out?

Ben, You were held in isolation for ten days because you refused to do any scams. You were essentially held to ransom. How did you actually manage to get out?

We managed to hate a pull so that we would be able to give my parents the location of the police and you know what to tell the embassy on where we are at. So I believe the communication through the full between my parents and my wife, and that's how he managed to get the police to come.

We managed to hate a pull so that we would be able to give my parents the location of the police and you know what to tell the embassy on where we are at. So I believe the communication through the full between my parents and my wife, and that's how he managed to get the police to come.

But the police coming to the compound was just the beginning. The whole ordeal of trying to get home would take months before the compound guards released him to the police. They forced him to record a video saying he had been well treated, that he hadn't been kidnapped. Once he'd done that, he was able to go with them, but again at the police station. He was made to sign a statement again saying he hadn't been trafficked. Ben says a representative from the company was there in the room as they demanded his sign.

But the police coming to the compound was just the beginning. The whole ordeal of trying to get home would take months before the compound guards released him to the police. They forced him to record a video saying he had been well treated, that he hadn't been kidnapped. Once he'd done that, he was able to go with them, but again at the police station. He was made to sign a statement again saying he hadn't been trafficked. Ben says a representative from the company was there in the room as they demanded his sign.

I was pretty afit on that day itself.

I was pretty afit on that day itself.

What did you do?

What did you do?

Well, we had no choice but to sign it, and it was from there. I tried to get some legal support, but it was really expensive and we really lost everything going there, So it was quite tough. There were so many things going through our minds. Are we going to be safe even in police custody?

Well, we had no choice but to sign it, and it was from there. I tried to get some legal support, but it was really expensive and we really lost everything going there, So it was quite tough. There were so many things going through our minds. Are we going to be safe even in police custody?

Ben was right to be afraid. Later that day, a car came to pick him and his wife up to take them to the bigger provincial police station and hopefully one step closer to home. But on their way there, the police car broke down, or it seemed to. Ben realized something was up and he started recording.

Ben was right to be afraid. Later that day, a car came to pick him and his wife up to take them to the bigger provincial police station and hopefully one step closer to home. But on their way there, the police car broke down, or it seemed to. Ben realized something was up and he started recording.

They faked a car breakdown. They took a car that wasn't working and a car broke down halfway. No problem, No problem. I found that that police station was already compromised, and I was just a few minutes away to being so back to the company.

They faked a car breakdown. They took a car that wasn't working and a car broke down halfway. No problem, No problem. I found that that police station was already compromised, and I was just a few minutes away to being so back to the company.

Now go to police, But what chager?

Now go to police, But what chager?

Go to police? Okay?

Go to police? Okay?

Ben was able to use his phone to call for outside help to intervene and put pressure on the police. From there, he and his wife Moira spent nearly three months living in housing supported by an ango in Cambodia. He was constantly questioned by the government and made, he says, to feel like a criminal rather than a victim.

Ben was able to use his phone to call for outside help to intervene and put pressure on the police. From there, he and his wife Moira spent nearly three months living in housing supported by an ango in Cambodia. He was constantly questioned by the government and made, he says, to feel like a criminal rather than a victim.

The line of questioning of the police, you know, wasn't who were these people? How do they connect you? They were basically asking like, okay, so when you were there, did you do any transactions? Do you ask money from anyone? There was no mention of the perpetrators and you know how they look like and things like that.

The line of questioning of the police, you know, wasn't who were these people? How do they connect you? They were basically asking like, okay, so when you were there, did you do any transactions? Do you ask money from anyone? There was no mention of the perpetrators and you know how they look like and things like that.

Okay, So no interest in pursuing the people who trafficked to you and kidnapped you and kept you in the compound against your will.

Okay, So no interest in pursuing the people who trafficked to you and kidnapped you and kept you in the compound against your will.

Correct.

Correct.

Ben and his wife made it out of Cambodia, but the experience left him destitute with no home to go back to. Ben was it first living in a church, and he lived in fear.

Ben and his wife made it out of Cambodia, but the experience left him destitute with no home to go back to. Ben was it first living in a church, and he lived in fear.

Sometimes I'm worried for my life. You know, we get treads sometimes.

Sometimes I'm worried for my life. You know, we get treads sometimes.

What sort of threats do you get?

What sort of threats do you get?

I get very funny calls on my phone. Sometimes I have a feeling that someone from the compound is trying to reach out to me. Maybe it's just my PTSD, you know, Yeah, but but yes, I'm afraid sometimes that you know, they will come after me. They have all the financial results to do that.

I get very funny calls on my phone. Sometimes I have a feeling that someone from the compound is trying to reach out to me. Maybe it's just my PTSD, you know, Yeah, but but yes, I'm afraid sometimes that you know, they will come after me. They have all the financial results to do that.

It's rare to hear from people. You don't often hear from people like you who have been in these compounds. Why do you think that is?

It's rare to hear from people. You don't often hear from people like you who have been in these compounds. Why do you think that is?

I think the first problem would be it's really hard to stand up for yourself as a victim over here because there were so many stigma that goes around, you know, survivors. Even my own government and my own police. When I got back, you know, they thought that I was a scammer and I just needed help to get out. So I think there's not many much support. That's why not many people would actually be brief enough to come and talk about it.

I think the first problem would be it's really hard to stand up for yourself as a victim over here because there were so many stigma that goes around, you know, survivors. Even my own government and my own police. When I got back, you know, they thought that I was a scammer and I just needed help to get out. So I think there's not many much support. That's why not many people would actually be brief enough to come and talk about it.

But it's the testimonies of survivors that have forced governments to act. In the last few weeks, seven thousand people were rescued from scam factories in Myanmar by Thai authorities. A week later, two hundred and fifteen more people were freed by Thai and Camodian police from a town along their shared border. What would you want the people in Australia who are getting these scam calls, what would you want them to know and to understand about the reality of what's actually going on and the people who are placing these calls.

But it's the testimonies of survivors that have forced governments to act. In the last few weeks, seven thousand people were rescued from scam factories in Myanmar by Thai authorities. A week later, two hundred and fifteen more people were freed by Thai and Camodian police from a town along their shared border. What would you want the people in Australia who are getting these scam calls, what would you want them to know and to understand about the reality of what's actually going on and the people who are placing these calls.

For the Australian people, scam cams are real. The people who are calling most likely they are victims as well, and they were forced to do their jobs right. But for the average Australian citizen, I would suggest to you, if there was any call pretending to be a bank or a post office, you know, basically anything that requires registration, please go to the branch itself and chat before committing financially to any of these scams, and don't fall for anyone online unless you know them for years.

For the Australian people, scam cams are real. The people who are calling most likely they are victims as well, and they were forced to do their jobs right. But for the average Australian citizen, I would suggest to you, if there was any call pretending to be a bank or a post office, you know, basically anything that requires registration, please go to the branch itself and chat before committing financially to any of these scams, and don't fall for anyone online unless you know them for years.

Thank you for sharing your story and I'm glad that you managed to escape at good luck with everything.

Thank you for sharing your story and I'm glad that you managed to escape at good luck with everything.

Thank you. Thank you so very.

Thank you. Thank you so very.

Much for more of Ben's story plus others have a Listen to Scam Factories, a three part investigation from The Conversation Weekly. Search for The Conversation Weekly wherever you get your podcasts. Also in the news today, people who have lost income as a direct result of x Tropical Cyclone Alfred may be eligible for up to thirteen weeks of income support. The Prime Minister has announced starting today at two pm, workers and sole traders in thirty one local government areas impacted across Queensland and New South Wales will be able to apply using MyGov or the Services Australia websites. Income support will be available at the job seeker level. Former Central banker Mark Carney will be sworn in as Prime Minister of Canada within days after winning a party contest to succeed Justin Trudeau. Trudeau announced in January that he would be stepping down after his approval rating plummeted. He's been Prime minister for more than nine years. Fifty nine year old Carney has never held political office, but argues his banking background makes him well placed to lead Canada through its current trade war with the US. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am. Thanks for listening.

Much for more of Ben's story plus others have a Listen to Scam Factories, a three part investigation from The Conversation Weekly. Search for The Conversation Weekly wherever you get your podcasts. Also in the news today, people who have lost income as a direct result of x Tropical Cyclone Alfred may be eligible for up to thirteen weeks of income support. The Prime Minister has announced starting today at two pm, workers and sole traders in thirty one local government areas impacted across Queensland and New South Wales will be able to apply using MyGov or the Services Australia websites. Income support will be available at the job seeker level. Former Central banker Mark Carney will be sworn in as Prime Minister of Canada within days after winning a party contest to succeed Justin Trudeau. Trudeau announced in January that he would be stepping down after his approval rating plummeted. He's been Prime minister for more than nine years. Fifty nine year old Carney has never held political office, but argues his banking background makes him well placed to lead Canada through its current trade war with the US. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am. Thanks for listening.