Gorgeous, gorgeous girls, do NOT date F*CK Boys! Zuri’s back at it again with her girls from the Group Chat (Ashlee and Cleo) for an honest convo about sex and relationships. They’re sharing their personal stories on how to tell if he’s a f*ck boy and the red flags to watch out for! They break down the difference between situationships and friends with benefits (and what are the rules?!), and how to avoid catching feelings for your f*ck buddy!
Listen for the laughs and tips as they share if they’d rather be dominated, the perks of walking home naked, and *someone* shares what happened when another girl showed up at her f*ck buddys’ house!
If you’re ready for a good time, hit play and get ready for a hilariously honest convo with Z and her close friends!
Share this episode with a friend NOW + let us know your favorite part of the convo: @ZuriHall and @HotHappyMess
Don’t forget to hit up hothappymess.com for all the show notes mentioned in this episode and for ALL the deets on how to join our exclusive Facebook group!
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Hot, happy mess, celebrate your magic in the middle of life's messes. Happy that I'm zeriall and this is hot, happy mate, shoot Happy Wednesday if you are listening to this on the day that it uploads, downloads, whatever loads. But what's up. I'm Zuri and this is not happy mess. We are bringing you another episode. We've got a super fun, super chill one. I've got my group chat girls with me today, and today is all about love and the relationships boys, because it's all one right, you gotta go through the boys to get to the love. Um friends with benefits, all the things. So this is clearly I'm pretty sure we're gonna have to mark this one explode sit but only because of the obvious, which is that the title is a little bit more than PGT. We'll see where it goes. Maybe this ends up arm maybe we keep it cute. Who knows? Uh. First up, let's introduce today's ladies back to the group Chat. I've got Ashley and I've got Cleo. It's season two, So for anyone who might be joining us for the very first time, let's do a quick debrief. Remind them who you are, what you do, and then what you've been up to in the last I don't know a few weeks. Ashley, let's kick it out with you. What up, y'all. My name is Ashley Ray. I live in Phoenix, Arizona. I am a people operations executive in the text space, working out of Silicon Valley. I also am a career coach. I own my own business. I'm married, love and life. I'm your friend that is down for whatever. If you want to fly to China tonight, called me sis. I actually just got back from North Carolina. I was at my alma modern wake Forest, where I played tennis there, and I did a panel with wake Forest and ESPN w UM celebrating the fifty and anniversary at women's Athletics at wake Forest University. So that was really fun and I'm still recovering. It's nice, all right. Our former pro tennis player here played tennis at wake Forest first before going Crows, So that's a fun fact for all of y'all listening. Cleo, reintroduce everyone to you. Who are you? How do we know each other? What's your vibe? How you been doing? Okay, y'all? My name is Cleo Ellis. I live in Toronto, Canada, Toronto for the rest of the world. Everyone else's Toronto. I work as the director of brand Partnerships. I have a PR agency and the digital agency that I co own with my business partners, and I managed talent in that position, and then I also co own an all female DJ booking agency and the Spin corporate and private events all around North America. You name it, we take care of it. Um and I get In the last couple of weeks, girl, we have been like spin your head off, busy, book busy and blessed, but to the point where it's been like verying overwhelming. So luckily we are back on track. Things are calming down, making my way to l A next week for a little Coachella fund and some vibes. I am single and uh in the streets if you will, right it dropped the relations um and I'm Zuri and I'm here again, and I'm pretty sure I'll have a general idea, so I'll spare you the detail. But what's been happening in the last few weeks for me? So I just I've been going through the house for renovation, as everyone who's listened consistently knows, and I'm finally um in the tail end and like the main levels of the kitchen, the living room, that's all done. Lola was like, this is my house, you're just living in it, and I'm just like, you don't pay the mortgage, and she doesn't care. So really, I am a prisoner to my very adorable puppy, um and she is living her best life. She's totally house trained, which is awesome. And I'm about to start finally sharing like the home design stuff really soon, so that'll be coming to social media and Instagram soon. But I've partnered up with some really cool brands. I've done a lot of stuff just on my own, completely out of pocket. But it feels good to come into two from a place of peace and calm. Like I'm very overwhelmed. I'm not gonna lie. It's been a stressful few weeks. I let out a really loud, aggressive over the top screen in my car, like right before we got on here, and I thought no one heard. And then I walked out in my garage and the photographer from the living room was still there and I was like, hey, sometimes you just a day. I want to do a quick rapid fire before we get into some other stuff. Um. One we'll start with Cleo. Who's the last person you called? What'd you guys talk about? Who the last person I called? I called Coco and we just talked about our very sudden plans to go to Coachella, literally that we're decided today and our trip to Miami tomorrow that we probably wouldn't have agreed to going on had we known we were going to Coachella next week. So that's what we discussed, and basically, how are we going to survive? Are you going to the bigcoin conference while you're down there in Miami? No, we're going for a friend of a friend's wedding. Okay, Ashley, who's the last person you called? Would you guys talk about I called my sister and she was just I was just giving her an update on the weekend in North Carolina. So yeah, we talked. We talked every day. Love it tell her, I say. The last person I called was Leah actually of group Chat, and she is in Germany right now, living her best life. And we were comparing notes because we're trying We're probably going to cross paths in the south of France in like June, so we're trying to figure out what we can do maybe like check out a couple of new towns together. Um. So that's what I was talking to. Uh, what is your favorite song to sing in the shower right now? Cleo? I jammed to Thames and Drakes Mountains and like, basically every day. I love it. Ashley, Oh my god. Yah, I don't even have a jam right now. Um, I don't know. I've been meditating in the shower. I have been listening. My jam in the shower right now has been earth tone meditation music every single day. That's what I listened to. A car rides so I can just zin out instead of getting worked up in the l a rush hour. That's good, you know. My I was talking to my therapist, um uh a few sessions back, and she was saying the same thing. You know. I was just saying, how I've been a little bit overwhelmed these last couple of weeks and I'm trying to get back to what I was feeling like at the top of this year, which was zinned out and floating. And she was like, what can you do for you? And like what time can you carve out for that? And she was like what about the shower? And I was like you never really think about that as an opportunity to be intentional. You're just like I'm gonna wash and I'm going to piece out. But you can completely meditate. It's not like you have to be asleep. You don't have to be laying down just to be without bond or to be mindful. It's something you can absolutely do in the bath. Yeah, it's like a cleansing of like the whatever stresses I had the day before, what I'm thinking about, and then it's also my time to like take care of my body, take care of my skin. It just feels like very rejuvenating. M M, I love it. Um my go to song right now, I'm just loving. Do y'all know Tiana Major nine? She is so dope. She's a black British R and b old singer, little Leo soulish, a little bit of pop um. But I'm obsessed with her song with Lucky Day, which is older now it probably came out a year ago called am red Um. But also her new EP is like a four song EP. I think she has a song called try Piece about being a complete self saboteur and low key avoidant me and then being like, oh there's this new person in my life, and it feels good and peaceful and right. Maybe I should try peace instead of all the normal bullshit that I that I engage with, or that I you know, entertained, um, and what it means to consider that. So I love her music because it's a vibe, it's super catchy, but she also really is exploring herself and her emotions and why she behaves the way she does, which I really respect. We have another game, it's would you rather? It's a fun, slightly naughty version of it. Um. I'll throw a few out just to get us a little saucier before we get into the nitty gritty. But this we're gonna keep it super fast. So just give me your answer. Don't even explain why, Um, Ashley. Would you rather clogged the toilet on a first date or the first day at a new job? First day at a new job? Cleo job? Sam? Um? Would you rather be dominant or dominated? Cleo dominated? Ashley? Yeah, with my man dominated. I love how you had to put the disclaimer in there, like yas about to beat up? Right? Depends on the situation, right, right, Um? Depending on the situation that I would say dominated too. I feel like I'm just so dominant with life. So, okay, would you producer star? Oh my goodness, she is asking some questions. I'm like, I don't even know if I want to answer these. Okay, would you either have to be naked at work for an hour or be dropped off two miles from your house while naked and you have to try to get home? Um? I'll answer first. I would rather two miles is a long way to walk, but naked to my house. You know what, I think it's weird to say naked at work. I would say naked at work too. I don't want to be naked anywhere. You would say naked at work, Cleo, I'm just like, I gotta see you all tomorrow. But if it's two miles from my house, I'm like, whatever, These are just like random people driving Zuri be and Zuri Hi. My thought exactly. Yeah, Okay, okay, let's see we got one more good one. Okay, Okay, I'm gonna ask this one of Cleo. Because you're single. Would you rather find the love of your life or find three million dollars tax free? I have a context question, though, Okay, give us an um. Is it like it's I would never I take this three million, and I would never find the love of my life ever or just like tomorrow. That's a great question. No, it's just like it's not guaranteed. You might never find them, and maybe you will find someone that works. But this is hidden, like this is love of your life, like spiritual so made what every rom com ever is written about, like the stuff that barely exists for a lot of people like that type of love. Um forever, for as long as you live, you in that person will experience that together. You know what do think three million? I'll risk it because I think I'll take that money and then I'll risk that. It's because I think I can find the person after I have that. Like I think I can find the person. I'm confident that I can find that person later in my life, true that you never know. I like the confidence I am in. I think I'm more of a romantic than I give myself credit for. I try to act like I'm all big and bad, but deep down I just and putty. I can't to think I don't want the love of my life if I have it written in blood that we're not gonna be on that boom, and we're just get enough be happy and in love. You know that's the key, that's the key. Yeah, we together later and it will just make the three million, you know, tax free, which means I guess we got to come up with six million, right, so I might have to sleep on this actually, exactly right, Not that easy, right right right? Okay, let's get into it. Um. Today we are talking about f boys. We're talking about friends with benefits. What does a successful relationship like that look like? I'm curious to know if either of you have ever had one before? Okay, so first off set the scene for me. I have either of you had a friends with benefits situation? Yes, tell us what you're gonna tell us? Oh? Multiple? What do I know? Every wait? Wait wait, I'm sorry, I'm thinking of situation ships. But I've definitely had yeah, like I've had multiple situation ships. But I've definitely had um too, friends with benefits situations that have happened um and they for me, they've always like started off fun and it started off as a good idea initially because when you're friends, ideally, like if you spend so much time together, you become attracted to each other and like, when you're in a serious relationship, the best part of a relationship to me as your friendship. Um. But then as you go down the line, like it never can stay friends with benefits, at some point at least one or both people, at least one person is gonna want to take it farther and they're gonna, you know, have feelings, and it just never it never works out. So I've never had a successful one. And that's the thing. I'm like, what is a successful one? I look at the success rate as how long did it last? And it was good for both people? And that's it, because I feel like there's this unspoken understanding that eventually this is going to go left, because that's how those relationships always ends. It's because someone gets bored and just doesn't have an interest in hooking up with you anymore, or vice versa, or someone falls in love or decides I want to pursue a romantic relationship with someone else, or someone catches feelings and the other friend with benefit doesn't catch the feelings, and now it's awkward and weird, and so you have to kind of dissolve what it was and that's always uncomfortable. But I don't know anyone who's like, hey, this has been so great, what do you say? We just kind of quit while we're ahead and go back to being friends. Like you don't do that, because if you feel that wonderfully and everything is going so smoothly with that person, that's the person you want to call up when you just want to you know, good to it. So you kind of have to wait for things to get a little weird before it ends, otherwise there's no reason for day. Yeah, I've had it both ways, Like I've had it where I'm the person who was catching feelings and I was just kind of like, where is this going? And I've also had it where the person was feeling himself a little bit too much and was letting people know like bumping his gums and was like, yeah, actually really feeling me. And I'm like, I'm not you know you were you literally just said no, I don't like you know, being useder, Like I will literally talk to you today and I will never talk to you again, like please, I'm like, I'm on you like that and I will never talk to you again. Girl, when I tell you we are the same person. I was just thinking this today, like there will be a guy who will swear I am just head over hills in love, whatever the things are right, and I could be giving you that energy I'm scott that I'd be picking up when I'm putting down. When I tell you lick at me a little bit sideways, breathe a little funny to say something that felt a little slick, and I didn't really like it. If I sit with myself and my thoughts for five minutes, when I tell you r I P, and you may never even hear from me to know that I just put you to rest. It's like a light switch. It is so night and day, and it's so extreme because it's opposite into the spectrum. I could literally be cuddled up with someone one day and be like, oh my gosh, like is this my future husband, and seven hours later be like buck him. Honestly, when I think about it, I just like I don't know, Like I don't know, I don't I just don't know. Like I like being alone. I just like being my dog. I need I need space. It was so bad with this person that I blocked. I blocked everything right. I had one mutual friend was like, yeah, so and so was that he was really feeling him. He was all on it, but I was like, word blocked everything. The last dress that I had that I went out with him in threw that away. Like I was like, wait, not punishing the dress threw away, it was justlinder. Yeah. Day. I was just like, this never happened. This whole situation never happened, and it was all from loving hip. Hop. I have to receive right here him. I never do him. I don't know his name. I did not know who this man is. Sorry to that man, right exactly. Okay, cleo, give it to me. What's what's your I've got a couple of thoughts. I think it was good to make a distinction between situationship and friends with benefits. First of all, Um, I would challenge both of you. I don't think that there's um it necessarily like if you decide you're going to end one of those, that it means that it failed. I don't think that like coming to the end of a situation, ship or relationship of any kind is always implicit of failure. I think it sometimes just means a closed chapter. UM. And I think you know it, it works for the people as long as it works and everybody is good and happy with it. So I've had one successful friends with benefits situation UM with someone who like years ago. We've known each other since I was like seventeen, and like we did have like a mutual like for each other back in the day. Nothing ever came of it, um And as we got older, like their safety and awesomeness, and we eventually, like ten years later after the facts, slept together and now from time to time we'd lea see each other. We have sex, and it's great. He lives like where in my hometown. I live across the country and everything is gucci. UM. I've had many situation ships. I have one literally right now that I decided, actually last night is about to be dead in um and and it's yeah, yeah, yeah, we're dead. It's not And again, like it's not even a failure. They haven't done anything wrong. It's not a situation where like some big crazy thing happened. It's just not serving me anymore. I'm not feeling aligned with it. And I ultimately know, like I knew from the beginning he and I were not a love match. I knew we were very different people. And now I'm like, no, I don't want it. So yeah, they work as long as they work and as long as everybody in those relationships or eyes wide open, right, I I respect you know that you can be like, oh, this isn't working for me anymore, is not serving me, and so it's time to move on. Um, yeah, that's good sex for this man is unlikely. Yes, he is going to get a call. That's exactly true. Like I won't ghost him. He's he's been break up with it, like why do you and how do you civilly end friends with benefits situation? I actually thought about this all day. I'm gonna like, I'm gonna come back to town. I'm gonna like be like, hey, let's go out, and I'm gonna tell him face to face. I don't want to do it on text. Like he's been kind to me, he's been a good person. It's not in my ethos to like just text and be like, hey, that's not gonna work. And I wouldn't do that to someone in real life, even if we weren't in an intimate relationship. Like, if something's not serving me, I think you know, it's always kind of to like close it and send it. If if this situation calls. Now I will dead somebody if they've done me dirty. I'm not sending anything or being kind, but this is not that situation. He's always been respectful and and you know, generous, and he works hard and he tries and all the things. So I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna put it to bed properly. And there's a place where it sounds like you guys could just go back to being friends without right. I mean, we hear that the situation ship, we're situation ship, not I would not call us friends and doing abused. This one is a situation ship. Like he and I, we weren't friends to begin with. This is the difference. This is we like came together under the understanding we were just we're saying friends of benefits, situation ship. The differences what what? What is the difference to you between the situationship? To me is when okay, I would like for this to be going somewhere else. I'm trying to keep it cute until we figure out if we're taking it to the next level or not. Maybe it's the guy who's trying to play it cool until he convinced his me to go all in but there's a romantic undertone, but we're not committed. So if I catch you out with someone else, I technically can't be mad, even though I absolutely will be mad and vice versa. So that's the situation ship to me, friends with benefits is come through, all right, have a nice day, let me know how that promotion goes. Let me know if you get blackly in a few weeks. You know, like, there's no there's no faking intimacy because that's not that's not what that's about. So that's what it is for me. Does anyone have a different definition or would you agree? No? I I completely agree, And like sometimes friends with benefits can be like we knew each other before and we were actually cool, and then we did cross the line, not trying for it to go anything further than just like we have a sex whatever, um, and that's what it is. And then yeah, situation ships to me is the same as you s. It's like we're talking, we're dating, but we don't have the like we're not fully committed, Like I'm not your girlfriend, you're not my boyfriend. But if I do see you out, I'm gonna be pissed. If I see you out with somebody else. I'm gonna be pissed. And I don't care if I'm on a date with someone else. That's none of your business. Exactly, my man, And I see you with a new chick. You're fake. I shouldn't known. I couldn't have trusted you. Don't ask your business, and now you're dead to me exactly. Oh my god, that's so funny. I don't feel like a situationship is like that, at least not for me. Like friends with benefits is like we were friends and then we decided at some point we were gonna have sex, and as everybody's like, hey, we're agreed on this, and then situation ship. To me, I just call it a ting. But like I don't I truthfully with the guy that is my situation ship, I do not give a funk at all. I do not care go talk. In fact, I'm like, please go talk to other people, Please go do something I would never and it would never bother me if he was. And to be honest with you, he doesn't ask me if I am because I don't think he wants to know the answer. But we're very clear, like it's nothing that to me benefits if neither one of the anything more because the situationship to me is like I mean it's a little situation and like it's complicated, or like I mean we're in the middle of something. Friends with benefits is exactly or at least to me, it's like he's not asking me questions. I'm not asking him questions because we're friends and sometimes we enjoy benefits. Like that's it. The situation ship is like, it's the ship of it all, like that applies. I don't even have another word for this, So that's fair. I might know what I might then adjust all of my language. I will call all of my situations friends with benefits that I've had. Okay, Cleu has like ten dudes and situation ship that she didn't even know she's in. She's like, no, we're super cool and chill and they're over there like at the house, like, m it's a situation ship right now. I want to take it to the next level, you know what. So you thinks they're like chilling, They're just gonna have to work harder. She a football. You know, we've been I've been locked up for two years later, sins been COVID, so I'm here for the streets. I had my own before, so I've listen before I got locked out. So as I feel you, what are the rules for you guys? Do you have any like you must do this, can never do this? Like, what are the rules for a successful friends with benefit relationship? If you even have any? Yeah, I mean I don't. I think you can't. It's hard to have rules, right, like unless you just want to be like, hey, if you are out here in these streets, for the protection of both of us, please let me know. Um. But outside of that, I think if you are both agreeing that this is a friends with benefit situation, then it's fair on both sides not to ask questions like it is what it is, right mm hmmm. I think it depends on you as the person. So I have my own personal like guidelines that I generally abide by. So back in the day, when I was much younger, if I had these situations, I would make sure that I wasn't like spending the night or doing things with that person that were like very boyfriend girlfriend uh things. Because I feel like I had gotten myself into like one or two situations where I was like, oh, this is something more because we're spending this kind of time together. That's changed over the years because now I'm older and I can cuddle you and go and we can have sex and it's fine and go home. And I know that that still doesn't mean anything. But UM, I always try to just be transparent about our sexual health in particular, so there's I always have that conversation up front. I always uh like, show I asked for tests. I get my test done regularly. UM. And we always have a conversation about protection, just because I know if I'm sleeping with other people and they're sleeping with other people, which I don't care about. I never asked, It doesn't matter to me. Um. I just want to make sure that we're always safe and and that we're not taking anything for granted. So I don't just take someone at their word when they're like, yeah, I'm clean, I'm like, great, get me that test though, and like, let's let's be serious about that, because I take my sexual health very serious. Plea. So those are the rules. And and then the only other thing I always tell them is to just like if something changes in the dynamic where you're like, hey, I'm not feeling it whatever, just let me know, and it's no problem amen of that. Safe sex. Guys sexual so important and I feel like we've all been their experience that you hear. Good, Now, it's fine. I'm not doing anything with anybody if they would like to their whole partner. They're committed spouses of years and years and years, they're allowed to you, okay, especially if you you're in a situationship friends with benefit situation like health is so important and safety and you really have to take that into your own hands, Like that is not a joint decision to me, right, Like we can negotiate the rules of whatever else and how we interact with each other or whatever that is, but like you don't get to dictate or get me to just like accept whatever because you told me something or you promised me. I'm good absolutely running those pagures. Yeah, I think to like just to like reiterate what Klio said, like do not do boyfriend girlfriend things with the friends with benefits because that's just that's where now it's starting to get into a situation ship And it's like, is that where you want this to go? Like, because now it's it's changing into something that it was not originally intended to be. Now I want you to clarify. I'm like afraid of what. I'm not afraid, but I'm like, I feel like this get specific, But what is the difference? What is a boyfriend girlfriend thing versus a friends with benefit? Then, like we're not about It's funny, right, because like I am such a guy's girl, Like I have a lot of guy friends and I grew up with and I still have guy friends, and I'm still friends with people that I've actually dated, um, even even as a married woman. And so is my husband's friends with a couple of friends with a couple of people. He said it before, but like if we go out, I'm not don't pay. I'm not letting you pay for anything. Like this is not a date. This is just us going to dinner. Um, I don't know if cuddling would be in there. I've been out of the game for a long time, so I'm sure even the fact that you're like maybe it's off limits. Wow, yeah, Like I don't just want to make that like a clear distinction. Yeah, Like you know how on Jersey Shore is like the calfs here, Like let's just make you dis station calves. Here's like catch me, yeah, because I don't want to bar those lines people cut it with like the Best Season cut it with dogs. You know, it's just different person though. It depends on the person. Some people can like separate that stuff with ease, Like I'm one of those people, Like I can cuddle you, we could do like all that, I could spend the night whatever. And then I'll be like douces and I'll see you in public and be like I don't know you, yeah, Like I just want to keep myself in line, and then I would want them to keep themselves in life. I don't think this is anything more than what it is, right, I'm not about to invite you as a plus one for like as a couple's thing, you know what I'm saying, Like, I just think that's starting to I think I'd just be so crazy because I would be like, yeah, do you want to go to go with me to like this rig carpet gala. There's like a photo walk and we can say pictures separately, like I just do the most and again we'll just like never see you again, Like I don't have to see you tomorrow slash ever for the rest of my life. It just doesn't mean anything to me unless it means something. And then sometimes I think people confuse it or they're like sometimes they get hyped like oh my god, does this mean more? Like are we going somewhere else? Sometimes they might get freaked out, like oh my god, she invited me where like what does this mean? I'm not trying to do all that, but either way, for me, it's just like I'm going to this thing. There's free food, you want to roll. It's the same as inviting like one of my homies, like one of you guys do a thing. But I get that the implications like intention and option or two very different things. So I've even had to realize that because then also like with social media, like I'll share things that to me are not a big deal, and then people are reading tea like tea leaves, like is this her new booth? She posted a photo or story with someone, so like, god forbid, someone have a penis and be anywhere on my Instagram like we have to be dating, And I'm just like, I'm sorry, what can I have? Friends? Is that not a thing? Um? But I guess I get it. I guess I get why some people might I might want to draw that line so they don't, you know, blur them. And that's just for anything that would be like a couple's ish type thing, Like I think it was just like, oh, we're going out, You're trying to go to this party with me, like whatever, let's row. But if it's just something that it's like, oh, it's all couples, you're trying to do my plus one, it's like, oh, she invite me to this party and it's all couples, like a couple's date. Like I'm not about to do that. Yeah. Have you guys ever had of friends with benefits situation that turned into or that actually turned into like a relationship for a little while, or something that was unexpected but pleasant. No, I have not, Cleo shaking her head, no inside, no night. Okay, So I feel like I kind of got finessed into it, and like I have attempted. I'm more than one occasion to you know, not a lot, but I've tried at least a couple of good times to have a friends of the benefits situation. And I this is why guys smoking mirrors like they act big and tough and like they can just move on and drop whatever. It's alive for more men, at least than society would have us believe, because I have very much negotiated the terms of agreement with someone before and thought we were on the same page. And so I'm, you know, moving about the cabin in the way that we agreed to, and everything's fine. And you know, over the weeks that come, they start feeling some type of way about my posts or what I'm doing, and it's not even that I'm with someone else. I'm just giving single energy and that makes them feel some type of way and I'm like, I'm single, Like I don't know what you do was And at that point it becomes awkward and you have to figure out how to extract yourself from the situation. But I think a lot of guys also, because so many of us, not just men, men and women, have commitment issues. The way that we drop our guard and even become comfortable enough to get to know someone and experience intimacy is only if they promise, ironically not to try to get too intimate, not to expect anything of us, not to try to lock us into a commitment. And so I have found in my experience that more often than not, when I am, you know, just casually enjoying a guy's company and genuine expecting nothing else. That's when their guards starts to drop. That's when they start telling me stuff about their mom and their daddy in the past, and this and that's and things that they normally would hold to their chest if it was a woman across the table from them who was looking for a husband. Which is ridiculous that they would do that, right, because I think so many of us want love deep down in partnership, but we're so afraid of it, and so something about their friends with benefit label just makes them think, oh, like whatever, I'm not going to see this girl in a few months, so I'll share of myself. And then in the end, the sharing obviously makes it a little more complicated and a little more messy. So I've certainly ended up in some like month long, six month long situation ships because I thought it was friends with benefits situation and then I have to break up with them three times even though I never committed to them, and I'm just like, this is crazy. Yeah, they like listening. We I'm about to proposed They about proposed that. You're like, wait, but we're not even dating. Speaking of egos, what is enough boy to you? What are the signs? Who? Who are these men running around freaking havoc innocent folks lives? You want me to start because I can actually get in there, get in there. I've dealt with a few, you know what I'm saying. So, um, well, the one that I was dealing with, what is I'm pretty like ninety nine percent. I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist. Pretty sure he's a narcissist, but um, I would say anybody that falls in that court category. Um, yeah, just like playing with your emotions, right, it's like doing girlfriend things. Yes we're dating, Yes we're in a relationship. However, no, I'm not dating anybody else. I'm not seeing anybody else. But very clearly they're out here for the streets lying with other girls. You literally catch them cheating with your own two eyeballs or your own two ears, and you confront them about it and it's like, I'll never do it again, and so you get back in and then they're just still doing f boy ship Like it's just like it's games. They're they're not serious about anything. They're playing with your emotions. Um, maybe they got two or three kids out here. Um, maybe they handed the d out on a platter, like you know what I'm saying. It could just be in a ray of things. But basically, at the end of the day, being serious about you, you are not the one. At the end of the day, you aren't the one. Um. And so I think us as women just have to recognize that earlier. Um, you can't change anybody. Everybody's not for you, and you have to move on. But that's a boy to me, that's a amen. I feel like there are two different types, two different types. They're the super low level. You just fine, fine, fine, fine, fine as hill. You know it. I know it, Your mama know your daddy know what. Everyone you have ever met knows it, and you just can you can just live in the forty and we'll deal with it because you find we know we're dealing with you. We're stupid for doing it. Our friends are judging as it doesn't matter. I'll see you tonight. Like that's what category, right, And it doesn't take much emotional intelligence or maybe even intelligence period to be that kind of F boy. And then you have the other f boy, which is the dangerous one, that is the guy who is very emotionally intelligent EQ is through the roof. He knows how to sell you a dream. He's smart enough and emotionally in tune enough to know what you might want to hear and you can give that to you. So basically, this guy has the power to be a very present, emotionally available partner. But maybe not for you, or maybe not for any woman, but the competence is there, and instead of using those powers for good, he's using it to keep you hooked and rilled in. So that's the guy who's doing the bait and switch. The other dude is just like, you're coming through or not, I'm outside, like whatever. He knows what it is you either dealing with him or not. Like he might run your credit through the mud. He might take the car and bring it back without gas. Right. But then this other guy is the one who will say, oh my god, you are just different and amazing and I've never i haven't felt like this is so long, and you know, starts gassing you what you might not even be looking for that, But he knows how to let those heart strings to where you start to you know, kind of let the walls down. He can start coming and going with a little more you know, freedom, you know, and um, maybe you're starting to get a little emotionally invested. So if you given it, he'll take a mile, and he knows that you're gonna give them mile. And I think those are the dangerous ones because when you finally come to your senses and call them out, they're really good at gas lighting, at being like, wait, no, that's not what this was, or what no, you know how I feel about you? Like either way it goes, it's one end of an extreme and you're somewhere in the middle, like why does this feel so inconsistent? Why do I feel like I'm the queen of your world one day and like I'm losing my mind the next day? Um? And they just kind of seamlessly bounced back and forth between those two so that it's just enough to keep you hooked. So those are the boys that our hardest, in my opinion, to let go of, because they're giving you tastes, like little samples of who they could be at their best, but they either are not emotionally ready to give it to you or they just don't want to give it to you, but they won't say that they won't be man enough to just let you go. They'd rather string you along and enjoy the perks of your presence. They feel like ladies. You. I don't have anything to add. You both gave that the most distinct understanding of what enough boy is. My preference for boys is obviously the first ones, he described, because at least everyone's on the same page. You know you're enough boy. I know you're enough boy. It's fine, we're all Gucci over here. That second type, that narcissistic one, though, debt it. Debt it as quickly as you can. Don't ever, yeah, because it's like when it's good, it's like amazing, right. So it's like those little bits of goodness that you do see and the time that you spend together, and even like maybe the sex that you'll like, it's like amazing, right, And so it like overshadows the and yes, and that's what makes it super hard. Right, tell me about the time and F boy broke your heart or I'll say bruise, because we're not giving them that much credit. And there has not been a single one that I have not bounced back from within dirty days. So what who is someone who kinda took you through it? What were this sign when did you first start seeing the signs? Or this is f boy behavior? Why did you stay? Why did you keep putting up with it? What was so charming about it? And then how did it? How did it play out? Man? I feel like I was young when this happened. This was one of my first like this was like a cornerstone one where it was like the learning the learning lessons. So we would spend time together. We would hang out, we would go eat, we would have sex, I would stay at his house all of these things, and he and I had like great conversation and um. But then I would notice, like when we would go to the club, he would kind of just like ignore me, like we would't go together because but we always see each other out because really we're one of the same places. He kind of just ignored me, but then find his way back to me, like at the end of the night, like, well, can I get a ride home? Because I at the time just I drove everywhere and I never drank. And so it started to get to this thing where like before he would want to see hang out with me in the day and like do these things. And then it only became a nighttime thing, and then there were like little things that just kept happening. And I actually remember one time. This is so crazy, you guys. Uh we were at his house literally in the middle of doing something, and there was a knock at his patio door and watched me when I tell you, it was a woman. It was like another woman like knocking down since patio door. And he tried to tell me it was nothing. He's like, it's my cousin. I'm like what what. I'm sorry. I could see with my actual two eyeballs and like actually said was my actual two eyes, like I'm not blind. So he tried to tell me like it was nothing, it was his cousin. He's like, I'm just gonna ignore it. And it was a whole other woman knocking down his door. Why would you ignore your cousin. That's just like they just the lines are so ridiculous. Let your cousin in the house. Can I meet your cousin? Like, I'm gonna ignore it. Yeah, I'm gonna ignore it because I was like, yo, opened the door. He's like no, no, no no, it's fine. They're gone. So that was one of those cornerstone ones and I was. You know, I think I was so young. I had never had a boyfriend before. I really liked him, and you know, I would think I was maybe nineteen or twenty or something, just fresh to the game. And that was the quarterstone one where I was like, oh no, And to be fair, that actually probably set me up for a lot of the reason I am the way I am now, which is one of those unfortunate ones. God bless therapy. We learned from our mistakes. Um, but yeah, yeah, wow, his cousin was on the patio. We're gonna leave her outside though, right, I'm like, smote, break, I don't even smoke. I want to go out to the patio, right, right, exactly, Let's go patio, right, Let's check it up, Ashley, Do you have one for him? Do you know? I was gonna say, like watching some of them because literally, um, yeah, you know, mine were younger, and I feel like this is like what your twenties are for, you know, because you learn from these situations. And I think every I think everybody needs to have at least one, you know, for experience, because like it sets you up to appreciate the good, the good partners that that you do come across right that maybe your potential spouses. UM. But yeah, I was younger and met this person. I'm not even gonna give like super big context and don't want to get no body credit. But anyways, I met this person. I was younger. Um. They we actually started off his friends. Uh. They were very um like pursued me super hard. I was like, not, I don't want it. He whatever, we're friends, UM try it. A couple of times, like we kissed and it was like terrible and I was like no, not like, we're not across that line. Um. But long story shore, we actually did cross the line, and we end up um dating and it was really fun, really great. Became very close with this person and like some of their family. UM. And then it became very like emotionally abusive. And I didn't know at the time that that's what it was. So it was just like catching him with other girls or catching him talking to other girls. UM. Things I would see with my own life literally, things I would see with my own two eyes, like other women showing up at parties for this person, um, telling me that they're with this person, and then me confronting him and then him being like okay, yeah, like we messed around a couple of times, but it's nothing, and me just being on the floor like of my apartments, brought out, devastated, can't eat, losing weight, like it was all bad, Like I literally was strong out and it was so bad that I was like, I feel like I'm digging myself a grave every time I go back, and I'm not able to like dig myself out of the grave. Um. It was like it was a lot, but it was just like me not believing my own eyes, letting him talk me out of things that I knew were true, but I didn't want to believe it. Um. And it became like I mean, it was just like so many like girls in situations. Um. It became very disrespectful at the end, to the point where almost it started to become physical, Like one time and then I never talked to this person again, but talk about the ultimate boy. Like I could walk outside and be like this guy is blue, and he'd be like this guy is red, and I'd be like maybe it is red, Like maybe it is red. Um, And so I you know, it was a young stage in my life. Therapy really helped me to like get over a lot of the shame that I felt for not trusting myself. And you know, it's like you have to trust yourself again to make sure that you know the signs of like what a boy is right, um and quite literally a narcissist at this point. Um. But yeah, that's my experience with it. But it's also helped me to appreciate like my husband now and it helped me to like realized when I met him, um that like, Okay, this is a really great guy, even though I was still like, we'll see after six months, we'll see after a year, Okay, so like the last two years, he's gonna mess up after three Like okay, we're married, Yes, we're like right, I mean just because we're married don't mean nothing. Actually he's literally in the context me right now exactly. Um, No, that that's a rule. And I remember, I remember the updates of that one. It was a lot um. And you're right, they're so narcissistic too, like, and they're so good at convincing you that you're the one who's tripping. And I say this often. I've said it on the podcast quite a few times. We so often extend our sanity and our grace and our good nature to the people we interact with. We assume that everyone moves like us, acts like us, treats people the way that we would treat people. When they don't. In the most abusive or manipulative or dangerous of people will know that about you and use it for their own selfish gain and not think twice about the fact that that's what got them what they wanted, then really taking advantage of your kind heart or um or your good nature for me, like I've certainly dealt with if you have boys, I feel like the one that was the most gut ranching was the first time when I didn't realize in the moment, and it was only in hindsight after I had cried my tears and healed and started learning about what the red flags and the warning signs are, I was like, oh my god, I can't believe I cried for him at all. Like this man is definitely a narcissist. And I don't mean it in the general like, oh, he's selfish way, like I mean it in manipulative gas lighting. Lyne to you about black being white, white being black two plus two equals seven and if you don't agree, then you're the crazy one. I remember we were he was so fine. Are they all? They really always are are? Time has not been kind to him, so that makes me happy. I'm not gonna I lied and caught up to him or kick in. But um, he was so fine, gorgeous, and he played the role of gentlemen like it was so sweet, whispering sweet nothings. We were in separate spaces, so it was long distance, um for a significant amount of time. But he was like, I would love for you to come out and hang out with me and like me my family and we it was too much, too soon, and I was young, and it was just kind of like whatever, let's see where it goes. And so we were in this. It sounds ridiculous to even saying, hindsight, quote unquote committed relationship after only gosh like a few weeks of talking like whatever. It felt so high school in hindsight, But in the moment you're caught up, he's so fine you can't believe, like, oh my god, he's into me, Like this is great. So this was what I should have known f voice sign number one. So I was broke at this point in my life, right like working my butt off, employed always have been, but money was tight. I was still in local news, I was young, I was in my early twenties. UM and you know, literally toilet tissue from the work from the workplace to my house because that's one less thing I had to try to pay for it in my house. And he was like, I would love for you to come out and visit me. Like he initiated this offer, ask request or whatever. And he was like, get a flight. I'll pay for it, like I'll cover it. I really want to spend time with you. And I was like, okay, like I've never bought a flight to go see anybody before. I really wasn't trying to do it in but he was the one who wanted to see me. He brought it up and I was like okay, he said, don't pay me back whatever. So I spent a few hundred dollars on this flight, which is not a little bit of money for someone who was literally taking toilet tissue from her television station to go to the bathroom at her UM. And I got to his location in his state that we will not name unless we identify the f boys UM and as we're there, the first day is cool, like we're having fun, and up until this point we've been talking NonStop. I'm talking hours on the phone, face time, like we're talking about real stuff. So emotionally it feels like he's giving and taking UM. By day two things got weird. He started and I realized now on hindsight for context, he it was and probably still is so afraid of emotional intimacy, even though it seems to be the thing that he wants the most. But because of some of his personal history that I won't go into, he has been scarred and hurt people, hurt people, hurt people. So that's the part of me that still, even though he doesn't deserve my compassion or empathy necessarily, UM is there because that's just who I am, and that's my heart, and I don't ever want that to change about myself. I can love me from a distance, and I don't love him at all, so I can I can have compassion for that. So we I got to his place, and by day two he was chipping away at little bits of me, like my physical appearance. I remember he made fun of UM, like my hair. At one point he said something slick about like my skin, like little things, and then peppered in between a bunch of compliments to where I started to become confused. I was like, wait, he just said these two or three really nice things, but then he said this really mean, unkind thing that like I had, like even my enemies or people that I don't really deal with having said stuff like that to me. But he says, it's so slick, and it's like chipping away at my security. Right. So I'm starting to build insecure on this trip, and now I'm in my head about my skin or my hair, or my feet, or my this or my clothes or whatever, to where I can't even enjoy it. And the more I got in my head, I could feel him almost enjoying the feeling of knowing that he had me in my head, knowing that suddenly I was policing my behavior, my appearance, what I said, so that I could get out of each interaction unscathed. It wasn't about just getting to know someone anymore. It was about rising to the occasion and impressing him enough to not have him chip away at Loki, who I was as a person super toxic, didn't realize it in the moment, and again buttoned up with a lot of really, Oh my god, this is so much fun. Oh my, you were so beautiful. Oh my god, Like, what are we hanging out next? So after this weird three days, I go to the airport and I'm on the I'm on the little rollie sidewalk head into my gate and I can't wait to get back to the Midwest. I don't want to give any more details, but I can't wait to get back home. And I'm like, oh, it was like a load was lifting the farther I got from his house. And then this man texts me and he's like, I miss you already, and I was like, wait what. He barely paid attention to me while I was there. There were moments when like a couple of people close to him were like I was in uncomfortable situations, and instead of diving in to save me from that awkward social moment, he sat in silence and kind of watched me squirm like it was torture. It was cruel and unusual, honestly. And as soon as I get to the plane, he's like I miss you. I was like, you see joking. I never felt more confused. I was like, is it me? Like this is maybe I misread all of the weird stuff, and in the weeks that followed, he would go between being super sweet and kind to talking with girls on Twitter. Mind you were in this quote unquote relationship, rolls eyes but tweeting girls gorgeous women back and forth, blatantly flirtatious. I remember I got on the phone with him once and was just like, look, I'm not like I'm so chill. I really am such a living letlin person. I have guy friends. I don't care if my guys have girlfriends, but like, you don't know these women, and you are blatantly making the connection in real time, and I'm watching you engage with new half may get chicks on Twitter. And when I tell you, he literally was like, Zuri, are you serious right now? You know what You're about to lose me. You're about to lose me because this is crazy. I'll hear a question to me. I'm with you like it's Twitter, it's Twitter. I will never forge. I was in the parking lot of like Walmart, and I remember being so confused and like near tears because I was like, am I tripping I'm about to lose him? Maybe I shouldn't ask that question. I got off the phone with him and resolved to call my friends when I was feeling alienated, insecure, belittled, and I was like, I'll just vent to them and hopefully that'll get it out so that I don't have to address it with him, because maybe I am tripping the fact that my mind ever got there. It breaks my heart right that to be that young and that naive. I believed him for even half a second, and even still a few weeks later it imploded. God was like, girl, okay, just time out, Like you're clearly not catching the hands, so I'm just gonna literally pull you out of this. But the fact that he was so good at it is what threw me. And it took years to fully process that I was being manipulated and that he was gaslighting me, and that I wasn't being unreasonable in my requests. And it was fuckery because it was peppered in with all the sweet stuff. I'm like, just be a douchebag, so I can label you a douchebag. But he would always keep me on this like baited hook, and then as soon as we got close he would pull away. It was pretty pretty shitty. I just realized who that was, and I'm like, oh my god, it was a lot. You never tell me who it is, because if you ever point this dude out in public, it's it's on on site, on site again. Now you have to hop a light to the middle of nowhere to even be on it. I'm Paddy, and I in my head and I'm Harmon has already done done her work. Well now he's ugly. Now he's he's ugly and old. So um and and honestly, since then, like I'm such a person, and like I can forgive. I don't forget, but I'll move on. You don't have that access to me anymore. For you, he tried after that to give me back into his toxic little orbit. It never did. But we were friendly in the years that came to pass. I even linked up with him once or twice, purely platonic. We caught up and he was fine and civil and kind. And it's so sad that it's when someone becomes emotionally open and available to you that that activates your toxicity and your abuse, because he's only acted like he had since ever since then. I don't talk to him at all anymore. Um. But it's so crazy. The people who open their heart to you are the ones you want to treat the most unkind like that's wow, wow, anyways, and I think that's important. I'm sorry, I just want to say, like, I think it's so important to like talk about this things because there are people right now that are in those situations and they have no idea that there's a name to it um and I just didn't know, like you, and like many of us, it's like you think it's a real thing. Like you're like, oh, this must be just how relationships go. This is just what love is. You go through ups and downs, and it's like you get older and you're like, oh, wait a minute, Like no, like my, my, the person I love shouldn't be putting me down or should it be chipping away at my confidence and shouldn't be throwing in peppering in you know, insults in with compliments at the same time. And I shouldn't feel like I'm on a hook and it's a roller coaster ride. Like none of that is normal. And these are important distinctions to make in the context of like also situation ships or friends with benefits or any of those things, because the lines can become blurred so quickly in any of those situations that you should be looking out for what some of those things are like when you're with their friends with benefits situation, you, in my opinion, like you shouldn't be feeling this way about things you shouldn't that person shouldn't be doing in any of these situations treating you like that, whether it's your friends with benefits or your situation ship or you're like so called partner, any of that stuff. But this is why the lines get blurred so quickly, and why it's also sometimes important, depending on who you are as a person, to have clear boundaries about what these what the definitions of these relationships are so that you're able to like better spot those things. You know, you only get better with with age and with time and with life lessons like I couldn't have done you know what I did what I do now when I was eighteen, nineteen or twenty. Obviously, if we all have these like stupid funk boys in our lives doing crazy things, treating us like shit, or you know, having women at the patio door now that I mean I wanted to never happen, but I'm very not likely ever happened to me now, but that's because we lived and we learned. For wrapping up, we're reaching the end of the conversation, but I want to close with like your bits of advice For something that I have said before on the podcast, I'll say it again, do not be the fuck boy of your own life. Like dudes might come in, women might come in and try to mess your stuff up, self set or sabotage you, um throw you for a loop, sell you a dream, and then pull the rug from under you. But if all I can control is myself and how I react to situations, I have signed up for the free for lack of a better phrase on more than one occasion, more often than I care to admit. And at that point I realized, in those past moments it was self sabotage. I could only be so mad at the f boys in my life, at the people screwing me over because I was doing it to myself. I was inviting them in. I had opportunities to learn lessons, and then instead of learning them, I signed myself up for more drama, more toxicity, more of the petty or the messiness they promised. This was different. I knew it wasn't gonna be. I took de bait anyway. And so I think it's so important for us as women to stand in our power, to sit with the lessons we've learned, and also, um, embrace our gut right at a certain At a certain point, you start to learn the lessons, and your gut does sharpen. Now, we get really good at ignoring it. But early twenties something, you're Rosie, she didn't know those were honest mistakes. When these dudes were treating me like crap or selling me a dream or lying to me, I was very confused and conflicted with how to navigate it. Thirty something year old ZERI doesn't really have those excuses anymore. And so when slash, if I continue to engage with that behavior, I'm the f boy now for my life, Like, I can't be mad at anyone but me because I know better. Um, And that doesn't mean I don't give myself grace, And that doesn't mean we don't have hearts. And sometimes someone really good gets in there and tugs at it a little bit and you slip, But you just gotta bounce back, you know what I'm saying. You just gotta dust it off and be like, what would your advice be to your younger self, to yourself even now? I know you're married now Ashley Cleo, you're single, Um, but when it comes to not being the f boyd of your own life, what do you hope the ladies at home listening remember about how not to self sabotage, about how not to set yourself up for failure, and about how not to stay in a situation longer than it serves you. Yeah, I think I would say, like, one of the things I was really intentional about going into my not marriage but like my relationship, was not to bring anything from the past into my new relationship. I never forget things right, So I'm definitely was a lot more guarded in this situation. But I also it's not it's not fair to anybody knew to punish them for the sins of the person that you dated before, right, especially you, especially when you chose to stay in situations like these are all choices. So definitely, like, don't bring past situations into your new your new relationship. Um. But the other thing is like trust yourself. If something doesn't feel right, it's because there's something wrong, And you know that's not to confuse like you're gonna go through growing pains and your relationships, but like your relationships should not be painful. You should not feel like bad about yourself and your relationship. Like you should not feel like I have to change some part of myself or I'm not pretty enough, or I'm not skinny enough, or I'm not whatever enough for my person, Like they should never make you feel like that. And so anytime you're starting to feel like something doesn't feel right for you, then like, please take a pause and figure out where those feelings and emotions are coming from, and trust yourself enough to know that, like, Okay, I'm this probably is not the relationship for me, because anything happening when you're dating amplifies by twenty when you get married. That's one of the things that I've learned and I share with my friends now that I know it. Um, So that for sure is a couple of things, And I think the last one is just like to to hold your power close to you, like even though I am married, like I mean, I'm always going to keep my happiness first. And that's something that like we talk about in our relationship all the time. Like he's going to keep his happiness first, and I'm going to keep my happiness first, because that's how we're going to come to the table as to hold people and be able to function um in like a healthy way. Um. And so anytime that's not working for either one of us, like now we have to have a conversation, right, and so, UM, hold your power. Always protect yourself, like you're still an individual person at the end of the day, like who when you're in a relationship, you're sharing that space with someone else. But never give away like who you are and your power, even if you're in a serious relationship or you're in a domestic partnership or if you get married, Like, never ever ever give that away. So that's what I would say. Yeah, really, Will said really good advice, Cleo, how can me not the asp of our own life? Well, I think there's one question you asked earlier. You said, like, what would you tell your younger self, like younger women. I think the first thing I would say is, um, don't forget that you're worthy. And what changed for me in how I deal with or approach these situations or friends with benefits things is that when I was younger, I was um, very like I'm happy to be here, I'm excited that, like you've picked me, I'm excited that you're giving me attention. And it's a tiny switch of perspective um where it's never that case with any man anymore. I'm not excited that you're giving me attention UM or happy like, oh you you chose me because whatever. Um, I've shed a lot of that, like past trauma about not feeling worthy or beautiful or any of those things. And so now when I enter these relationships or any any anything with a man, UM, I am there as someone who understands that I'm worthy of the attention effect shouldn't love of anybody. And if I'm choosing to have this relationship be something that is friends with benefits or situationship or whatever you want to call it, it's because I've made that choice because it's what's aligned with me right now, and not because it is what the other person decided they wanted, because they chose me quote unquote to be in that. And and this speaks to the reason why even my current friends with Benefits is about to end because right now, like I had said before, it's just no longer serving me and I want to date with more intention right now. I want to um be with somebody who reciprocates the same energies that I do, and and right now that's I'm not getting it from this relationship. So it was very very quick turn um from becoming something of ease and and use. And it's there, and I'm in a pandemic. We Toronto has been closed whatever whatever to literally a switch one off and I'm like, oh, now, we're done with this now, and I don't need to question it within myself anymore because I know that I'm worthy of all the things that I want. So I would say, try to keep that in the back of your mind and all the things that you're doing, and and worthiness takes practice. So fail faster, Fail faster is the number one rule of life. Fail faster and learn from your mistakes. Yeah, the sooner you fail is there anything, bounce back, realize what we went wrong, and then pivot. It's great, that's great. I would say that the biggest thing for me, the biggest two things, really, one is not settling. And I don't mean that in the My laundry list of what I want in a man is so ridiculously long. That I'm gonna just be here until eighty five waiting for the perfect person. But to your point earlier, Ashley, if it doesn't feel good, there's a reason. You know, when something feels right, And even if it doesn't make sense on paper, and it seems like maybe on paper you are settling, if it feels right, there's something to that. And I think so often we get distracted by what society is as we should want, by what our girlfriends expected us to have, by what we told ourselves we wanted when we were twelve, thirteen, fourteen years old, Um, that we ignore how we feel to either make a thing work or to ignore a thing that's working, because we're in self sabotage mode. And so really learning to listen to your gut um is something that I would encourage people to do. Is something that I've certainly been trying to sharpen in recent years. Um. And I also have said, you know, I first had this empiphany when I was newly single in my late twenties, which is self love is so key. When I think about f boys right and their behavior and how they're hot in their colds. Some days they treat you good. Sometimes they treat you like crap. We do it to ourselves so often. Some days I'm eating sweet green salads and drinking kombucha and doing my yoga, and I'm feeling good and happy, I'm hydrated. And then other days I'm like, they're steventine cold French fries in the fridge, Zurie, just eat and shut up and go to work for thirty seven hours and like deal with it. And it's so unkind to myself. And if I was being reasonable and just taking a breath, I realize there's way more time for self love and self nourishment than we realize, and that we want to admit. And I can't ask a thing of a person that I'm not willing to give myself. So when it comes to avoiding the you know, the effery and the f boys, I think the better I treat myself, the more clear it becomes, and the more quickly I realize when someone isn't treating me well. If every day I show up half asked in my own life, I'm normalizing what it feels like to kind of show up. And so when someone comes into my life and does that, well that just goes normal. That's just what humans do I do it to myself? Why would I be any more upset at you for doing it to me? But when you were treating yourself good, and you are loving on yourself and pouring into yourself, and you've got ho bees and a strong friend group, community, family friends, you start to feel so fulfilled that you don't need anything else. And so when you feel something that's red flag, red flag, it's easier to walk away from it because it doesn't feel like the only source of nourishment or love or affection or attention. And we have the power to give that to ourselves. So I just encourage everyone to pour into yourself, you know, the way that you eventually hope that a partner will to um because that's certainly, certainly, certainly will gospel. In a word from one Missouri Hall, happy event Well, ladies, I love you both. I so appreciate the time and the wisdom and the horror stories that you share with me and with our happiness audience. Um, they love y'all. By the way, like people are always so excited, chats are like the favorite episodes. If people want to keep up with you, where can they find you? Ashley? You can find me on Instagram y'all at at ash ray A s h r A y E. But honestly, I have been very intentional the last probably six months about not being on social media so much. Um for a yeah, at you today, like, can I get a double tap? I did repast, I did repost on stories Okay, yeah, for my own mental health reasons. But um, every now and then I may like post and pop up. But that's where you can follow me on on on Instagram. M okay, amazing. You guys can all follow me on Instagram or Twitter at Cleo C L e O. Last name is E L l I S with an underscore at the end and lovett. And of course y'all can follow me at Zuri Hall's U R I h A l L or at Hot Happy Mess. Uh. Stay tuned, y'all. We've got new episodes every Wednesday this season season two. We're doing within days, no more Mondays. We're getting you through hump Day. Okay, So make sure that you are subscribed, um, so you get those notifications. I think nowadays you have to turn on an alert or something to even know when there's a new episode. To make sure you do that so you don't miss anything. We have so many really fun, cool episodes coming up about astrology, dating abroad, how to make friends as an adult with an actual expert whose job it is to help women make friends as adults, which I think is just fascinating. Um, a really cool one about a really cool one about mantras and affirmations. Um. So make sure you guys are subscribed if you want to be featured on the podcast. This is a top priority for me this season. Real women, real stories, whether you have a wild confession, whether you have something you just want to get off of your heart. If an episode spoke to you and you have something you want to share with our audience, hit me up. I honest to go out. I want to talk to you. So submit your story to hot hoppy mess dot com or slide in the d M s, or you can email us hello at hot happy mess dot com with your story, what it is you want to share with the audience, or what you want to talk about, or if you have a question for me, hit me up. Asked the question. I'm clearly too much of an open book sometimes, so I'll probably answer um and really quickly before we go. If you can be a real one to leave a five star review, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, iTunes, all the places. Well it's Rochelle says. I love it. I'm late to the party, but I love the topics. Every discussion is super relatable. And I'm binge listening at this point. Rochelle, that is what we love to hear. Keep on binging. And if you're listening now and haven't left a review yet, go ahead and drop us five stars and a quick well you know something something, tell us how you're like in the show. Um, and that's that. I will talk to you next week. Ashley Cleo, thank you both so much again. Um, this is not happy mess. I'm ZERI hall next weekie next weekie next weekie next Weekill next week