You Need to Hear This with Nedra TawwabA sister dealing with mental health issues is invalidated and falsely accused but ends up being the one issuing an apology. Nedra helps us understand how we get in these unfair situations and gives tips to make sure we are not wavering on our true feelings.
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Hi, listeners, welcome back. I'm Dedrick Glover TOWAB and you need to hear this. I'm part of this, right Like, I have this huge social media platform where I have used therapeutic language, and you know, now it's becoming commonplace to know what boundaries are and codependency and gaslighting and all of these terms. We have so much more information today, and in some ways that's really wonderful, But I don't think a social media post could really get to the meat of what depression is. I don't think a listical really gets to the source of what anxiety looks like. It's a first step, right, Like, you see this stuff and you're like, okay, yeah, I understand this, But unfortunately, there are so many people who really still don't get it. Even with all the informational content that's available, even with all the you know, resources that we have, there is still a misunderstanding of what mental health issues can look like. I've seen you know, issues dismissed. You know, sometimes when people are talking about suicide, I've seen people say things like they're just looking for attention, and it's like, that is the wildest thing to say to someone who is expressing something that is so serious. You know, when people are depressed and it's like, don't don't take medication, you need to do this, You just need to get outside. I don't think this person would have a diagnosis if it was that simple, that they could just manage this situation without some level of support. And I think sometimes, like even with all the information, there are many of us that are just still very insensitive to how mental health issues show up. Now, of course everyone has mental health. You know, we all to some extent feel anxious about something. Maybe not to the extent of having a diagnosis, but we feel anxious, We feel sad, we know what it feels like, you know, maybe to grieve something or someone like. These are just human experiences. But unfortunately, when someone else is going through we may not know what to say, we may not know how to respond, and we can end up saying the wrong thing. We can end up saying some things that are just not helpful and actually very harmful, very very harmful. So let's listen to today's call. I think some of us will find it very valuable to gain some insight on what to say and maybe want to be quiet when we don't know what to say. Let's listen.
Hi, Nadra. I am so inspired and so thankful for your work. And I've hit a bit of a kerfuffle on the road where I am experiencing some conflict with my older sister. So all my life she has been telling me what to do, even I remember just experiencing depression and starting the journey of taking medication and her kind of like standing in my door and saying, you know, you're gonna have to depend on these for the rest of your life. But there's just not much empathy or compassion for my situation. And recently there was a situation that led to me saying I don't need your advice, but thank you so much for your time and your energy. And what happened was she ended up saying that I put up walls and that I am the one who's causing a lot of her and I apologized for it, because you know, I know that I'm not perfect, and I take responsibility for the certain things that you know, like maybe in the past that I have yelled and I feel really horrible for that. And in this new chapter, I know that I want to communicate in a calm way, but I think what's been happening is that, like I shared this boundary of like not needing advice, not needing unsolicited advice, and she took it very personally in that she said, you know, I can't be myself in this relationship and that I've been gaslighting her and stonewalling her, just using all of these terms. And I have apologized through texts, only to hear back from her saying yes, it's important to be your genuine self and relationships. And when I said, okay, I honor your boundaries and I really respect, I really value the sacredness of our relationship, she just proceeds to send heart emojis. And currently I'm just feeling like this relationship is very one sided.
What are you apologizing for? I am not clear about what you think you did in this situation. You can use an apology as a way to smooth over something without actually not really feeling accountable for anything, you know. It sort of reminds me of when a parent says to a child, like apologize to your brother, and it's like, okay, I'm sorry, and then you hit them. It's like, what are you apologizing for? What is the thing that you think you did wrong in this particular situation. Is a apology for having this boundary with her when you felt like you should have a boundary? Is it for being depressed? Is it for whatever happened in the past? Like what is the apology for? I am very unclear, and I assume here that you're giving her sort of this blanketed apology as a way to just smooth over the situation. The therapy speak you know, your sisters saying you're stonewalling, you're gaslighting.
HM.
So stonewalling is when we are having a dispute and I put up a wall and I refuse to talk about it, right, Like, oh my gosh, you are upset at me for this particular thing that I that I did to you, and I'm saying, I'm not talking to you anymore. I'm not talking to you about this issue. I'm not hearing stonewalling gas lighting. Where's the manipulation? Where is the you know, retelling of events in a different way. I think these are catchy phrases, like if you put these in a text message, someone is like, oh my gosh, gas lighting, stonewalling. It doesn't mean that these words actually apply to the situation. What I find sometimes with you know these very common mental health terms. It's like we're just inserting them in appropriately in situations. It's like using the word regress instead of digress, like that changes the sentence. It's improperly used, like that is not the word you're thinking of. So sometimes with my clients, one thing I will do is, okay, so describe what's happening, right, Okay, let's think about some words to describe that, because maybe you're not talking about gas lighting, right like me saying to you, you know, thank you for your fee back, but I don't need your advice right now. Maybe that's not gas lighting, but surely it hurts your feelings because I'm not including you in my decision making process. That's different than gaslighting. When you think about stonewalling, it's like, yeah, maybe you felt I put up a barrier of access to a certain part of my life, and I did so because I didn't feel emotionally supported in a way that I needed to be able to express what's happening to me, which would push me further into this depressive state. So that's why you know that sort of thing happened. And I'm not trying to explain your way out of gas lighting and stonewalling. I'm just saying, you know, in a situation where you're creating a boundary of I don't need your advice, but thank you so much for your time and energy. Yeah, I don't know if that would technically fit the definition of gas lighting or stonewalling, because that boundary really has more to do with you and your situation than it is like a situation in the relationship or a situation that you all are sort of managing together. This is a part of your process, and you're figuring out how you want to manage your depression. And it sounds like you're figuring out how you want to manage your depression, and it sounds like you're managing it in a way that you know, maybe your sister doesn't agree with, doesn't understand, doesn't support, it's concerned about for the long haul, whatever that thing he is, and it may not be what you need to hear right now. So you're placing this barrier around, like you know, great, thank you for telling me about psychotropic medication. Please don't tell me anymore, right, Yeah, I would be careful about apologizing in this blanket sort of manner, just like I apologize for all the things that ever happened in your life and in this relationship. Like, an apology without context is not a very helpful apology. There has to be some context associated with it. Like if we say that an apology, you know, the best way to apologize is to change your behavior. What behavior are you changing with the apology? There's no behavior even attached to the apology. So my concern here is I'm hearing a little bit of people please, and I'm hearing a little bit of you know, if I just apologize, this will make the situation completely better. And I'm not sure that that is a fix for a situation that you just don't want to talk to her about. Let's keep listening.
When I shared my feelings, she called me a lot of names, saying I was sensitive. I'm self that I can't handle it, even though I sat there and just listened to her and I really wanted to just acknowledge the things that I didn't do great. But also I'm having a really difficult time just taking a step back and not taking what she said personally. And yeah, I would love your advice or insight on this and how we can or how I can still assert my boundaries with someone who invalidates mine and has such a strong reaction and such a strong pushback. So yeah, I've been feeling very lost and confused and very sad because I thought that I could really depend on her. But I think this experience has shown me that a lot of the things that she was saying is, you know, just her projections from her traumas and her past. And the best thing is I can only control how I respond and react. But yeah, at the end of the day, it just feels really one sided. And I know that my next step is to communicate that to her, But I'm definitely living in this space of fear because of the pushback that I received from the original boundary setting that I did. Thank you so much.
Guaranteed acceptance is not a part of the boundary setting process. It's not like once we set a boundary, someone is going to be like, Yes, that's exactly what I wanted to hear from you, That's what I wanted to do in your life. Chances are, you know, people may have questions, there may be some pushback, they might be a little upset. You know, some people will be like, oh, okay, that's cool, right, But people can have a reaction because it is shocking to them. It's their life too, and they may have a response to it. Doesn't mean you're doing a bad thing. It just means I don't like what you said to me. That's what she's saying. I don't like what you said to me. It doesn't mean that you need to unsay it. It doesn't mean that you need to help her resolve her feelings around it. It sounds like a situation that she wasn't expecting, and she wants to be able to talk to you about anything about this thing. Even if you know she has a reaction to it that you don't like, you should be willing to hear it. You are placing a boundary that a person does not like. She can have a reaction to that. It doesn't mean that you need to apologize for having the boundary. You chose the boundary based on what you needed at the time, and that was emotional protection from what she will say about all things concerning your depression. So it's not one of these things like I can place the boundary and once I say it, she will love it. That is not true, particularly in your situation. It sounds like once you place the boundary. She's like, why do you even have this boundary with me? Like, I should be able to say these things to you. You're being very sensitive. I'm saying these things and you should be able to take it. What I will say about a person's decision to take psychotropic medications sometimes it is a process, right, Like I have a lot of clients who will say, what do you think about this? They will research, they will you know, maybe talk to other people, they'll talk to their doctor because it is impactful. It is something that people should take seriously. And talking to someone who is going to instantly, you know, maybe say something negative or deter you, or say something that is not what you necessarily need to hear when you're already grappling with a very difficult reality. Yeah, you may not want to talk to that person about that thing, right, Like you don't want to talk to the person who doesn't like kids about having a baby. Oh, I want to have a baby. Cats suck? Like that's not That's not a healthy conversation to have with a person. That's not emotionally safe interaction. You're already thinking about this. Maybe you don't want to go into this situation where someone is going to have this response that makes sense, and it's okay. If this person who has that response, if they say, I think you should be able to tell me everything, I don't want to. I don't want to talk to you about these things that you're gonna make me feel really bad about it. You're gonna say something that I don't want to hear that I can't really tolerate at this time. I'm already going through a lot. I'm literally depressed, Like I don't need to hear you telling me to power my way through this. If you could power your way through this, I promise you would have already done it. We wouldn't be here. So when people are saying things like this, there's a lack of mental health education, there's a lack of personal experience. There is a lack of looking at people in a situation and being willing to understand what that issue could be like for that person. So trying to explain that to someone who has that burrier up. If we're using stonewalling inappropriately, that's stonewalling, Like you're not even looking at this person's real situation. You're saying, no matter what your situation is, you must talk to me. Role does not mean that we have any rules. What do I mean by that? With relationships mother, father, sister, brother, cousin, uncle, we like to take that to mean if this is the role, then this is the rule. If I am your sister, then you tell me everything. If I am your parent, then this. If I am your father than that. There is a human criteria as well. There's a relational criteria as well. It's also trust, it's also support, it's also connection. Those are the relational things that need to be in place for you to see that person in that role as a trusted source, as a valued entity in which you want to communicate certain things. If those things aren't there, the role doesn't matter. I mean, you could talk to anybody who's willing to connect here. You know respond approach that those are things that you can really get from other people. Depression is it's misunderstood, right, And I think that saying to a person, I want to protect the integrity of what I'm going through and I want to be able to manage this situation without your input is very brave and assertive. It is a wonderful thing for you to be able to do. To have those statements that protect your peace, and I think, you know, sometimes people don't want to take that seriously because they want to be able to say whatever they say to you. They want you to be able to, you know, brush off, you know, some of the mean comments they make, or you know, the statements that are actually harmful to you. They want to be able to do these things. And it's really unfortunate because you've been clear, like this doesn't work for me. So if these are things that you want to continue to say, you can't say them to me. You've set a very clear boundary and bravely soul. And when we set boundaries, there is a possibility that people will push back. You cannot control that part of it, and you don't need to apologize for the boundary. You need to hear this issue. Blanket apologies as a way to smooth over a difficult situation is ineffective. Apologies need to be tied to a behavior or something that happened. Just saying I'm sorry because you just want to keep moving forward, I guarantee you it will land you right back in similar situations with this person. Do not do that as a way to continue in a relationship. It is okay, for things to be unresolved when they need to be worked through. Be willing to work through things and to be focused on what the thing is and what you did, and not issue some statement to say, okay, okay, okay, let's just get back to it. Sometimes you need to get through the hard stuff to get to the place where you can actually move forward in your relationships. You need to hear This is an iHeart production hosted by me Nedra Glover to wob Our. Executive producer is Joel Bodique. Our senior producer and editor is Mia don Taylor. Send us a voice memo with your questions about boundaries and relationships at You need to Hear This at iHeartMedia dot com. You know, I'm really interested in people who want to talk more about frenemies, postpartum and father son relationships. If you are having any challenges in those areas or you're looking to process something in those areas, please send us a voice note or write a letter and I would love to talk through those issues with you on You need to Hear This
