You and Me Both is a production of iHeartRadio.

You and Me Both is a production of iHeartRadio.

I'm Hillary Clinton, and this is You and Me Both. I am thrilled to be back for a new season of the podcast, and especially delighted we are starting off with such a special guest. I've been following the steady rise of House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries for some time now, through his years in the New York State Assembly, then in Congress as a House Manager, overseeing the first impeachment of the former president, and as the chair of the House Democratic Caucus. But one of the most memorable moments in his esteemed career came this past January, just after those four chaotic days of in fighting before the House Republicans finally elected Kevin McCarthy as Speaker. At the same time, Hakim was unanimously chosen by his colleagues to be the Democratic Leader, and in his first act in that capacity, he took to the podium and offered his vision of what Democrats in the House stand for.

I'm Hillary Clinton, and this is You and Me Both. I am thrilled to be back for a new season of the podcast, and especially delighted we are starting off with such a special guest. I've been following the steady rise of House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries for some time now, through his years in the New York State Assembly, then in Congress as a House Manager, overseeing the first impeachment of the former president, and as the chair of the House Democratic Caucus. But one of the most memorable moments in his esteemed career came this past January, just after those four chaotic days of in fighting before the House Republicans finally elected Kevin McCarthy as Speaker. At the same time, Hakim was unanimously chosen by his colleagues to be the Democratic Leader, and in his first act in that capacity, he took to the podium and offered his vision of what Democrats in the House stand for.

House Democrats will always put American values over autocracy.

House Democrats will always put American values over autocracy.

And he did this.

And he did this.

Let me remind you, in alphabetical order.

Let me remind you, in alphabetical order.

Liberty over limitation, maturity over mar a lago, normalcy over negativity, opportunity over obstruction.

Liberty over limitation, maturity over mar a lago, normalcy over negativity, opportunity over obstruction.

I thought it was an amazing speech, and it perfectly demonstrated his unique qualities as a leader, drawing on his Brooklyn roots, the Baptist Church, hip hop music, the values of his civil servant parents, as well as his skills as a litigator and orator. I'm so happy to share my conversation with Leader Jeffries with you today.

I thought it was an amazing speech, and it perfectly demonstrated his unique qualities as a leader, drawing on his Brooklyn roots, the Baptist Church, hip hop music, the values of his civil servant parents, as well as his skills as a litigator and orator. I'm so happy to share my conversation with Leader Jeffries with you today.

Amen a second, theary. How are you good?

Amen a second, theary. How are you good?

Good?

Good?

How you doing?

How you doing?

I'm doing great well.

I'm doing great well.

Let me welcome to the podcast, Congressman Hakim Jeffries. I am so excited to speak with you today about a whole bunch of things.

Let me welcome to the podcast, Congressman Hakim Jeffries. I am so excited to speak with you today about a whole bunch of things.

I literally could talk to you for hours, Hakim.

I literally could talk to you for hours, Hakim.

But I guess we'll try to limit it to, oh, you know, your personal history, the future of democracy, what's happening in the Congress, and maybe I can, you know, let you go before dinner. I'm not sure, but it's just such a treat to have you. And let's start with your parents, because both of your parents were civil servants and I'm wondering how that might have influenced you to pursue the career that you are now in. Was their dinner table conversations about justice and equity and public service.

But I guess we'll try to limit it to, oh, you know, your personal history, the future of democracy, what's happening in the Congress, and maybe I can, you know, let you go before dinner. I'm not sure, but it's just such a treat to have you. And let's start with your parents, because both of your parents were civil servants and I'm wondering how that might have influenced you to pursue the career that you are now in. Was their dinner table conversations about justice and equity and public service.

How did it all start.

How did it all start.

You know, growing up in a household with my father, who, as you mentioned, and my mother, both of whom were public employees throughout the entirety of their careers. My father was a substance abuse social worker for the State of New York during some trying times for the City of New York, including during the nineteen seventies the heroin explosion and in the nineteen eighties into the early nineties to crack cocaine epidemic, and my mother worked for the Human Resources Administration as a case worker. So they were very much involved in just trying to be there for people who were in many circumstances, going through some adversity and trying to get to a better place. And while there weren't a lot of conversations around the dinner table about politics per se, there weren't a lot of conversations just about helping people solve problems. And I think as I emerged from law school into the practice of law, a lot of the influence of my parents that eventually perhaps led me to pursue public service was a desire to want to be there for the working class neighborhoods that I were raised in Central Brooklyn Crown Heights, but of course growing up in Cornerstone Baptist Church and Beford Stuyvesant certainly had an impact on me going in the direction that I chose to pursue.

You know, growing up in a household with my father, who, as you mentioned, and my mother, both of whom were public employees throughout the entirety of their careers. My father was a substance abuse social worker for the State of New York during some trying times for the City of New York, including during the nineteen seventies the heroin explosion and in the nineteen eighties into the early nineties to crack cocaine epidemic, and my mother worked for the Human Resources Administration as a case worker. So they were very much involved in just trying to be there for people who were in many circumstances, going through some adversity and trying to get to a better place. And while there weren't a lot of conversations around the dinner table about politics per se, there weren't a lot of conversations just about helping people solve problems. And I think as I emerged from law school into the practice of law, a lot of the influence of my parents that eventually perhaps led me to pursue public service was a desire to want to be there for the working class neighborhoods that I were raised in Central Brooklyn Crown Heights, but of course growing up in Cornerstone Baptist Church and Beford Stuyvesant certainly had an impact on me going in the direction that I chose to pursue.

You know, you came of age during the beginning and the growth of rap, and I somehow think that's significant. You've been known to incorporate rap lyrics into speeches, You're known to be a big hip hop fan. Did you ever think about being a rap artist yourself? Come on, I won't tell anybody well.

You know, you came of age during the beginning and the growth of rap, and I somehow think that's significant. You've been known to incorporate rap lyrics into speeches, You're known to be a big hip hop fan. Did you ever think about being a rap artist yourself? Come on, I won't tell anybody well.

Because it's you, Madame Secretary. I certainly did aspire to be a hip hop artist. It didn't quite work out for me, but when I was coming up as a young man, and you know, in the mid to late eighties into the early nineties, there was certainly a point of time where I thought that perhaps I had the skill set to be able to break through into the rap industry. Didn't work out, but it's still a very important part of sort of who I've become, and I think that connects to what the House of Representatives in particular is supposed to represent, which is, as you know, the institution closest to the American people to reflect the hopes, the dreams, the aspirations, the fears, the concerns, the anxieties, and the words of the framers the passions of the American people. And so the best representatives in the House bring the culture, the vibrancy, the heart, the soul of the communities that they represent at home to Washington, d C. And for me, a large part of that certainly is growing up in Central Brooklyn, growing up in the Baptis Church, growing up during the Golden Era, and the coming of age of hip hop music, and eventually my own professional experiences as a lawyer.

Because it's you, Madame Secretary. I certainly did aspire to be a hip hop artist. It didn't quite work out for me, but when I was coming up as a young man, and you know, in the mid to late eighties into the early nineties, there was certainly a point of time where I thought that perhaps I had the skill set to be able to break through into the rap industry. Didn't work out, but it's still a very important part of sort of who I've become, and I think that connects to what the House of Representatives in particular is supposed to represent, which is, as you know, the institution closest to the American people to reflect the hopes, the dreams, the aspirations, the fears, the concerns, the anxieties, and the words of the framers the passions of the American people. And so the best representatives in the House bring the culture, the vibrancy, the heart, the soul of the communities that they represent at home to Washington, d C. And for me, a large part of that certainly is growing up in Central Brooklyn, growing up in the Baptis Church, growing up during the Golden Era, and the coming of age of hip hop music, and eventually my own professional experiences as a lawyer.

Well, we saw some of your lawyering skills on a very high public platform when you were one of the impeachment prosecutors during Trump's presidency.

Well, we saw some of your lawyering skills on a very high public platform when you were one of the impeachment prosecutors during Trump's presidency.

You know, I was one of those.

You know, I was one of those.

Who followed that closely, and I'm just wondering why was it important to you to be part of that trial.

Who followed that closely, and I'm just wondering why was it important to you to be part of that trial.

Well, I want to thank Speaker Pelosi, of course, as I've done so repeatedly, for her embracing my journey in a variety of different ways, including giving me the opportunity to serve as an impeachment manager during that first impeachment trial, where we were working hard to really begin the process of vindicating the principle that in America no one is above the law. And in that particular case, you had the former president who, in our view, engaged in the corrupt abuse of power as part of the beginning of his effort to try to manipulate the twenty twenty presidential election by encouraging a foreign country, Ukraine, pressuring them to target an American citizen, Joe Biden, and doing so in one of the most unfortunate ways, which is basically a geopolitical shakedown of Ukraine, by withholding hundreds of millions of dollars in defense support, with Russia knocking at the door wanting to overrun Ukraine as we've now seen they've endeavored to do.

Well, I want to thank Speaker Pelosi, of course, as I've done so repeatedly, for her embracing my journey in a variety of different ways, including giving me the opportunity to serve as an impeachment manager during that first impeachment trial, where we were working hard to really begin the process of vindicating the principle that in America no one is above the law. And in that particular case, you had the former president who, in our view, engaged in the corrupt abuse of power as part of the beginning of his effort to try to manipulate the twenty twenty presidential election by encouraging a foreign country, Ukraine, pressuring them to target an American citizen, Joe Biden, and doing so in one of the most unfortunate ways, which is basically a geopolitical shakedown of Ukraine, by withholding hundreds of millions of dollars in defense support, with Russia knocking at the door wanting to overrun Ukraine as we've now seen they've endeavored to do.

It must have been very challenging in the circumstances in which you and the other House impeachment managers found yourselves to just see the naked partisanship that the evidence, the law, the clear intention of what the former president was doing made little to no impact on the Republicans in the Senate. Did any of them or any of your Republican colleagues in the House ever say to you, Congressman that yeah, look, they knew it was a problem, but they just couldn't take the kind of radical action that was required to hold Trump accountable.

It must have been very challenging in the circumstances in which you and the other House impeachment managers found yourselves to just see the naked partisanship that the evidence, the law, the clear intention of what the former president was doing made little to no impact on the Republicans in the Senate. Did any of them or any of your Republican colleagues in the House ever say to you, Congressman that yeah, look, they knew it was a problem, but they just couldn't take the kind of radical action that was required to hold Trump accountable.

At the time, there were some Republicans who would express concern with what they viewed as inappropriate conduct by Donald Trump, but did largely take the position that it didn't rise to the level of an impeachable offense. And I think they were looking through glasses that were rose colored in that regard based on partisanship, So that was quite unfortunate. But we understood that there were three things that we needed to do in presenting the case. We needed to make the case to the Senate sitting as a court in judgment of the president. We needed to present the case to the American people. But we also needed to present the case for the historical record.

At the time, there were some Republicans who would express concern with what they viewed as inappropriate conduct by Donald Trump, but did largely take the position that it didn't rise to the level of an impeachable offense. And I think they were looking through glasses that were rose colored in that regard based on partisanship, So that was quite unfortunate. But we understood that there were three things that we needed to do in presenting the case. We needed to make the case to the Senate sitting as a court in judgment of the president. We needed to present the case to the American people. But we also needed to present the case for the historical record.

I think that's a very important reminder that what you were doing, in my view, was as much for history as anything, to demonstrate clearly the very disturbing behavior of the former president. And in this fast paced world we find ourselves these days, I think it's good to remind ourselves that building a case, building a record, making a commitment to truth and to getting it out there, even if it doesn't have the desired effect immediately, is critically important.

I think that's a very important reminder that what you were doing, in my view, was as much for history as anything, to demonstrate clearly the very disturbing behavior of the former president. And in this fast paced world we find ourselves these days, I think it's good to remind ourselves that building a case, building a record, making a commitment to truth and to getting it out there, even if it doesn't have the desired effect immediately, is critically important.

I think that's exactly right. And the thing that I'd point out as well is that I think it was doctor King who once said the time is always right to do what's right, And the way I interpret that is that even if the immediate results that you yield aren't what you are aiming to accomplish, eventually you're going to get to the right place. But it has to start by leaning in and just elevating truth and facts and perspective, even if some people throughout the country aren't ready.

I think that's exactly right. And the thing that I'd point out as well is that I think it was doctor King who once said the time is always right to do what's right, And the way I interpret that is that even if the immediate results that you yield aren't what you are aiming to accomplish, eventually you're going to get to the right place. But it has to start by leaning in and just elevating truth and facts and perspective, even if some people throughout the country aren't ready.

To receive it well, or, as scripture tells us, do not grow weary in doing good, because eventually you will reap the harvest. But sometimes there are difficult boulders in your path, and that's particularly true in your position as a leader. You've been both an unofficial and now official leader in the party for years, and I'm just wondering, you know, what did Speaker Pelosi have to tell you or advise you when she passed that leadership baton. I've known her, as you well know, for many, many years, and there really isn't a shrewder mind and a more effective political organizer in the Democratic Party and certainly one of the most successful speakers in our country's history.

To receive it well, or, as scripture tells us, do not grow weary in doing good, because eventually you will reap the harvest. But sometimes there are difficult boulders in your path, and that's particularly true in your position as a leader. You've been both an unofficial and now official leader in the party for years, and I'm just wondering, you know, what did Speaker Pelosi have to tell you or advise you when she passed that leadership baton. I've known her, as you well know, for many, many years, and there really isn't a shrewder mind and a more effective political organizer in the Democratic Party and certainly one of the most successful speakers in our country's history.

But our question, I thinks you will go down as certainly the greatest speaker of all time and what she's been able to deliver for the American people even with narrow majorities in the House. But what I've learned from her throughout the years and as we made the transition, is that you know, it's important to find the highest common denominator now prior to that, it often involves some enthusiastic debates. That happening, and we win no stranger to enthusiastic debates, particularly in the House of Representatives. That's true, and we kind of work through those family dynamics. But at the end of the day, what's always been important in terms of Speaker Pelosi's leadership, and I've tried to follow along in this regard, is there comes a point where you have to make a decision to go forward, and we make that decision, and to go forward, you do that by finding the highest common denominator a months a variety of different perspectives, and in my view, you then advance the ball make the progress that you can make and where you fall short, you live to fight another day. As America continues on March, total more perfect Union.

But our question, I thinks you will go down as certainly the greatest speaker of all time and what she's been able to deliver for the American people even with narrow majorities in the House. But what I've learned from her throughout the years and as we made the transition, is that you know, it's important to find the highest common denominator now prior to that, it often involves some enthusiastic debates. That happening, and we win no stranger to enthusiastic debates, particularly in the House of Representatives. That's true, and we kind of work through those family dynamics. But at the end of the day, what's always been important in terms of Speaker Pelosi's leadership, and I've tried to follow along in this regard, is there comes a point where you have to make a decision to go forward, and we make that decision, and to go forward, you do that by finding the highest common denominator a months a variety of different perspectives, and in my view, you then advance the ball make the progress that you can make and where you fall short, you live to fight another day. As America continues on March, total more perfect Union.

We're taking a quick break.

We're taking a quick break.

Stay with us, just like you.

Stay with us, just like you.

I've been criticized by some that quote I'm not progressive enough. In response to that, I said back in the twenty sixteen campaign, I'm a progressive who likes to get things done. So for my views on your leadership, I think you're playing it exactly right. But I think a lot of people don't fully appreciate the extraordinary balancing act that you and Gauge an every day to keep your caucus together. And it's been miraculous how united it has been. And I give you big, you know, plaudits for that, but maybe give us a little inside view of how you do that every day, because that's the real key to leadership in a big, contentious, pluralistic body like the House Democratic Caucus.

I've been criticized by some that quote I'm not progressive enough. In response to that, I said back in the twenty sixteen campaign, I'm a progressive who likes to get things done. So for my views on your leadership, I think you're playing it exactly right. But I think a lot of people don't fully appreciate the extraordinary balancing act that you and Gauge an every day to keep your caucus together. And it's been miraculous how united it has been. And I give you big, you know, plaudits for that, but maybe give us a little inside view of how you do that every day, because that's the real key to leadership in a big, contentious, pluralistic body like the House Democratic Caucus.

Well, some people may say that the House is, you know, by nature, a chaotic institution, and I don't disagree with that sentiment. I do think that whoever organizes the dynamic chaos the best yields the best results, and from my standpoint, the way to try to do that is to authentically value the perspectives of every single member of the House Democratic Caucus, from the most progressive member on one end of the spectrum representative of Ocasio Cortes, to the most moderate centrist member like a John Scottheimer, and all points in between, and to really listen, to authentically value the fact that they each, along with every other member of the House Democratic Caucus, was elected to do a job on behalf of the communities that their privileged to represent. To have those conversations sometimes noisy ones amongst us as a group collectively, but to always be guided by that north star of finding common ground to advance the ball for the American people. And I think as I transitioned into this position having served as Chair of the House Democratic Caucus for four years, where I did have the responsibility to interact with individual members and the different parts of the Democratic Caucus. And we've got everything from progressives to New Dems, to Blue Dogs to problem solvers, to the Congression of Black Caucus, the Congression of the Vanic Caucus, the Asian and Pacific Islander Caucus, the Women's Caucus, the LGBTQ Caucus. We got it all. And that's the beauty of what we are as House Democrats, And it's like, how do you bring the orchestra together? You respect everyone's craft as individuals, but know that you can make the best possible music when at the end of the day we're all working together.

Well, some people may say that the House is, you know, by nature, a chaotic institution, and I don't disagree with that sentiment. I do think that whoever organizes the dynamic chaos the best yields the best results, and from my standpoint, the way to try to do that is to authentically value the perspectives of every single member of the House Democratic Caucus, from the most progressive member on one end of the spectrum representative of Ocasio Cortes, to the most moderate centrist member like a John Scottheimer, and all points in between, and to really listen, to authentically value the fact that they each, along with every other member of the House Democratic Caucus, was elected to do a job on behalf of the communities that their privileged to represent. To have those conversations sometimes noisy ones amongst us as a group collectively, but to always be guided by that north star of finding common ground to advance the ball for the American people. And I think as I transitioned into this position having served as Chair of the House Democratic Caucus for four years, where I did have the responsibility to interact with individual members and the different parts of the Democratic Caucus. And we've got everything from progressives to New Dems, to Blue Dogs to problem solvers, to the Congression of Black Caucus, the Congression of the Vanic Caucus, the Asian and Pacific Islander Caucus, the Women's Caucus, the LGBTQ Caucus. We got it all. And that's the beauty of what we are as House Democrats, And it's like, how do you bring the orchestra together? You respect everyone's craft as individuals, but know that you can make the best possible music when at the end of the day we're all working together.

I love that metaphor the orchestra. That's a great way of talking about it.

I love that metaphor the orchestra. That's a great way of talking about it.

You know.

You know.

I know one of the key issues you are passionate about is criminal justice reform. And you've actually made some progress now, and you did so with some Republican bipartisan support. So what is next in the reform agenda for helping to create a more equitable, just criminal justice system.

I know one of the key issues you are passionate about is criminal justice reform. And you've actually made some progress now, and you did so with some Republican bipartisan support. So what is next in the reform agenda for helping to create a more equitable, just criminal justice system.

Well, I was delighted to be able to be part of the effort a few years ago to work on criminal justice reform in a bipartisan way, to try to roll back some of the excesses of what I think most people would view as the failed War on drugs, and to to get us to a better place where we both were leaning into public safety, but also helping people successfully transition back into society, become productive citizens, save taxpayer dollars, and provide individuals with the skills, the education, the mental health intervention to be able to be successful as returning citizens, and we were able to find a path forward, eventually resulting in the first step back that brought together Democrats and Republicans, the left and the right, the ACLU and the Koch Brothers, the NAACP and the Heritage Foundation, and all points in between. And it was part of an approach that while you were in the Senate, Manham Secretary, you leaned into this aggressively as well, bringing together what I would call a coalition of the unusual suspects. And when you can do that, you can really make legislative magic and capture the attention and imagination of the American people. And one of the reasons why it's possible to do that and why I think there are future opportunities in the criminal justice reform space is because Democrats and Republicans have arrived at the need to deal with over criminalization and mass incarceration in America connected to their own authentic ideologies, you know, as democrats and progressives. Many of us arrive at that place because of views of social justice or racial justice or economic justice, and this concept of liberty and justice for all in America and bringing that to life for the greatest number of people, But many of my Republican colleagues have authentically got to the same place, perhaps for different reasons, but those reasons are authentic to them. Fiscal conservatives concluding that billions of dollars in mass incarceration without resulting public safety benefits is a failed government program and a waste of taxpayer dollars. Many of the religious right and the Christian conservatives who have been involved in this effort have come to that place that everyone in society deserves a second chance, that we all fall short in the eyes of the Lord, and the libertarians have concluded individuals like Ram Paul, who I may disagree with on a whole host of issues, but on criminal justice reform, we're in lockstep because they generally don't like what they view as government overreach, and all of us have been able to make the case that if you don't like government overreach, one of the areas where it can be particularly damaging to the American people is when the government can, unjustifiably in some instances, take away your life or your liberty. And so, because we have authentically arrived at the same place, there's certainly an opportunity to continue to move forward. I think some of the efforts around making sure when someone has paid their debt to society, they don't have to wear that record around their neck like a scarlet letter is a place where many Democrats and Republicans, I think, are trying to get to. So this is a space that I'm very cautiously optimistic about our ability to continue to find common ground and do what's right for the American people and American families.

Well, I was delighted to be able to be part of the effort a few years ago to work on criminal justice reform in a bipartisan way, to try to roll back some of the excesses of what I think most people would view as the failed War on drugs, and to to get us to a better place where we both were leaning into public safety, but also helping people successfully transition back into society, become productive citizens, save taxpayer dollars, and provide individuals with the skills, the education, the mental health intervention to be able to be successful as returning citizens, and we were able to find a path forward, eventually resulting in the first step back that brought together Democrats and Republicans, the left and the right, the ACLU and the Koch Brothers, the NAACP and the Heritage Foundation, and all points in between. And it was part of an approach that while you were in the Senate, Manham Secretary, you leaned into this aggressively as well, bringing together what I would call a coalition of the unusual suspects. And when you can do that, you can really make legislative magic and capture the attention and imagination of the American people. And one of the reasons why it's possible to do that and why I think there are future opportunities in the criminal justice reform space is because Democrats and Republicans have arrived at the need to deal with over criminalization and mass incarceration in America connected to their own authentic ideologies, you know, as democrats and progressives. Many of us arrive at that place because of views of social justice or racial justice or economic justice, and this concept of liberty and justice for all in America and bringing that to life for the greatest number of people, But many of my Republican colleagues have authentically got to the same place, perhaps for different reasons, but those reasons are authentic to them. Fiscal conservatives concluding that billions of dollars in mass incarceration without resulting public safety benefits is a failed government program and a waste of taxpayer dollars. Many of the religious right and the Christian conservatives who have been involved in this effort have come to that place that everyone in society deserves a second chance, that we all fall short in the eyes of the Lord, and the libertarians have concluded individuals like Ram Paul, who I may disagree with on a whole host of issues, but on criminal justice reform, we're in lockstep because they generally don't like what they view as government overreach, and all of us have been able to make the case that if you don't like government overreach, one of the areas where it can be particularly damaging to the American people is when the government can, unjustifiably in some instances, take away your life or your liberty. And so, because we have authentically arrived at the same place, there's certainly an opportunity to continue to move forward. I think some of the efforts around making sure when someone has paid their debt to society, they don't have to wear that record around their neck like a scarlet letter is a place where many Democrats and Republicans, I think, are trying to get to. So this is a space that I'm very cautiously optimistic about our ability to continue to find common ground and do what's right for the American people and American families.

Well, it's so important that you continue this effort. You know, a critique we Democrats get all the time is that somehow our messaging is just not as clear, as strong, as powerful, impactful. You name whatever adjective you want as the other side, So, Leader, what is the pitch that you're trying to make for the party right now as we are getting geared up for the critically important election of twenty twenty four.

Well, it's so important that you continue this effort. You know, a critique we Democrats get all the time is that somehow our messaging is just not as clear, as strong, as powerful, impactful. You name whatever adjective you want as the other side, So, Leader, what is the pitch that you're trying to make for the party right now as we are getting geared up for the critically important election of twenty twenty four.

Well, we're going to continue to put people over politics and to fight for things that are important to the American people. Lower costs, better paying jobs, safer communities. Fight for reproductive freedom because we believe in a woman's freedom to make our own reproductive health care decisions. Defend democracy, protect and strengthen social Security and Medicare, and certainly build an economy from the middle out and the bottom up that works for everyday Americans. You are right, Madame Secretary, that we as Democrats, haven't always been as precise and surgical in how we communicate with the American people. The big challenge often has been from a messaging standpoint that Republicans talk in headlines and Democrats talk and fine print. And it comes from a good place as Democrats, because if you care about governing, then you have to master the fine print. And throughout the years we've done a pretty good job at that as Democrats, going all the way back to FDR's presidency, from Social Security to rural electrification, then Medicare and Medicaid and headstart Civil Rights Act, the Vote Rights Act, the Fair Housing Act, the Elementary and Secondary School Act, the Higher Education Act, the Affordable Care Act, the American Rescue Plan, the Infrastructure Investment in Jobs Act, the Chips and Science Act, a gun safety legislation, and the Safer Communities Act, all the way through to the Inflation Reduction Act, all brought to you by your friendly neighborhood Democratic Party. That's an incredible track record of success and in order to do it, you have to master the fine print. But what we've said is, at the same time, while you govern and find print, you message, you persuade, you communicate in headlines, and we've got to draw that distinction between the two. And I think over the last few years we've gotten better at doing that, and certainly as we approach the twenty twenty four election, where we'll be having a real conversation with the American people about the differences at this moment between the two parties, we've got to lean into those compelling headlines when we have that conversation.

Well, we're going to continue to put people over politics and to fight for things that are important to the American people. Lower costs, better paying jobs, safer communities. Fight for reproductive freedom because we believe in a woman's freedom to make our own reproductive health care decisions. Defend democracy, protect and strengthen social Security and Medicare, and certainly build an economy from the middle out and the bottom up that works for everyday Americans. You are right, Madame Secretary, that we as Democrats, haven't always been as precise and surgical in how we communicate with the American people. The big challenge often has been from a messaging standpoint that Republicans talk in headlines and Democrats talk and fine print. And it comes from a good place as Democrats, because if you care about governing, then you have to master the fine print. And throughout the years we've done a pretty good job at that as Democrats, going all the way back to FDR's presidency, from Social Security to rural electrification, then Medicare and Medicaid and headstart Civil Rights Act, the Vote Rights Act, the Fair Housing Act, the Elementary and Secondary School Act, the Higher Education Act, the Affordable Care Act, the American Rescue Plan, the Infrastructure Investment in Jobs Act, the Chips and Science Act, a gun safety legislation, and the Safer Communities Act, all the way through to the Inflation Reduction Act, all brought to you by your friendly neighborhood Democratic Party. That's an incredible track record of success and in order to do it, you have to master the fine print. But what we've said is, at the same time, while you govern and find print, you message, you persuade, you communicate in headlines, and we've got to draw that distinction between the two. And I think over the last few years we've gotten better at doing that, and certainly as we approach the twenty twenty four election, where we'll be having a real conversation with the American people about the differences at this moment between the two parties, we've got to lean into those compelling headlines when we have that conversation.

Well, you've convinced me, I don't know that I'm your target audience.

Well, you've convinced me, I don't know that I'm your target audience.

We'll be right back.

We'll be right back.

Everyone who knows you, who has seen you in action, marvels at how you're able to stay so calm under pressure. Does that come naturally to you or is it something you've had to work on over the years.

Everyone who knows you, who has seen you in action, marvels at how you're able to stay so calm under pressure. Does that come naturally to you or is it something you've had to work on over the years.

I certainly think that it's important for all of us in public office, particularly during a fraught time where we're dealing with a lot of extremism and incoming fire and people critiquing your every move, as you've experienced throughout your career, all of us who are in the arena experience. But what I've concluded one is an honor and a privilege to be able to be in this position of trying to make a difference in the lives of people in Brooklyn and New York City and throughout the country and communicating with some of my colleagues. And I was just having this conversation with a very high ranking democrat the other day. I said, you know, when you think about the best quarterbacks in the NFL, they don't get jittery in the pocket when the pressure comes, even when you have three hundred pound defensive alignment and super strong linebackers heading in their direction. They stay in that pocket. They're calm, cool and collected, and with the greatest degree of precision possible try to get that ball to their receivers in a way that allows the team to move forward. And I think all of us who are in this position when the pressure comes, understanding, as Tom Brady and others understood, there will be times that you're going to get hit, it's going to get a little rough, but you can have success as long as when you're in the pocket, you stay calm and focused on releasing the ball, getting it to a receiver and hopefully getting it into the end zone. And we're trying to get it into the end zone on behalf of the American people.

I certainly think that it's important for all of us in public office, particularly during a fraught time where we're dealing with a lot of extremism and incoming fire and people critiquing your every move, as you've experienced throughout your career, all of us who are in the arena experience. But what I've concluded one is an honor and a privilege to be able to be in this position of trying to make a difference in the lives of people in Brooklyn and New York City and throughout the country and communicating with some of my colleagues. And I was just having this conversation with a very high ranking democrat the other day. I said, you know, when you think about the best quarterbacks in the NFL, they don't get jittery in the pocket when the pressure comes, even when you have three hundred pound defensive alignment and super strong linebackers heading in their direction. They stay in that pocket. They're calm, cool and collected, and with the greatest degree of precision possible try to get that ball to their receivers in a way that allows the team to move forward. And I think all of us who are in this position when the pressure comes, understanding, as Tom Brady and others understood, there will be times that you're going to get hit, it's going to get a little rough, but you can have success as long as when you're in the pocket, you stay calm and focused on releasing the ball, getting it to a receiver and hopefully getting it into the end zone. And we're trying to get it into the end zone on behalf of the American people.

Well, let's use that football analogy because that does connect with a lot of people, you know, and boy do I relate to it. It is a little challenging in these times when people get their kicks off of insults and attacks, to stay calm and try to keep delivering. So now you are a legislator, you are a leader, you are a husband, and you are the father of two sons. So how do you balance your work in public life with your family life? And you know, I'm starting to ask all of my male guests this question because ordinarily this is a question you only ask women who are doing something in the public arena.

Well, let's use that football analogy because that does connect with a lot of people, you know, and boy do I relate to it. It is a little challenging in these times when people get their kicks off of insults and attacks, to stay calm and try to keep delivering. So now you are a legislator, you are a leader, you are a husband, and you are the father of two sons. So how do you balance your work in public life with your family life? And you know, I'm starting to ask all of my male guests this question because ordinarily this is a question you only ask women who are doing something in the public arena.

It's a wonderful question. And you know, when one person and serves, the entire family serves. And that's just part of the reality of the moment that we're in. But I think all of us and I've tried to take this approach from the very beginning, try to shield, you know, our family from the rough and tumble of it all, and try to be there for our families, particularly during important moments. And when I first came to the legislature, my oldest son was five, my youngest son was two. You know now you know one is twenty two to the others nineteen. Even as I say that I'm going through a midlife crisis, but I remember when I was up in Albany, and no matter what was happening in Albany, around seven seven point thirty at night, I would always pick up the phone to check on the family, talk to my two sons, figure out how their day went. And when I was back at home, no matter what would happen, whenever I had the opportunity, I always started my day by dropping them off at school and value that time and being in the car or walking them to the bus stop, and the constancy of it and figuring out what works for every family in creating that consistent moment will be different, but the importance of finding the consistent moment should be the same.

It's a wonderful question. And you know, when one person and serves, the entire family serves. And that's just part of the reality of the moment that we're in. But I think all of us and I've tried to take this approach from the very beginning, try to shield, you know, our family from the rough and tumble of it all, and try to be there for our families, particularly during important moments. And when I first came to the legislature, my oldest son was five, my youngest son was two. You know now you know one is twenty two to the others nineteen. Even as I say that I'm going through a midlife crisis, but I remember when I was up in Albany, and no matter what was happening in Albany, around seven seven point thirty at night, I would always pick up the phone to check on the family, talk to my two sons, figure out how their day went. And when I was back at home, no matter what would happen, whenever I had the opportunity, I always started my day by dropping them off at school and value that time and being in the car or walking them to the bus stop, and the constancy of it and figuring out what works for every family in creating that consistent moment will be different, but the importance of finding the consistent moment should be the same.

You know, in between everything you're doing, because I know you're crisscrossing the country, you're already raising money for Democrats. Obviously you are fielding candidates with the hope that in twenty twenty four we can pick up those few seats that are needed, and then I'll be able to call you mister speaker. But in the midst of all of this, how do you find any time to relax and recharge? Like have you seen any good movies this summer or listen to any good music?

You know, in between everything you're doing, because I know you're crisscrossing the country, you're already raising money for Democrats. Obviously you are fielding candidates with the hope that in twenty twenty four we can pick up those few seats that are needed, and then I'll be able to call you mister speaker. But in the midst of all of this, how do you find any time to relax and recharge? Like have you seen any good movies this summer or listen to any good music?

Or is that just impossible?

Or is that just impossible?

I do try to pick up on good music, although I've got to admit in my boys and others say that my taste is limited because I'm still kind of confined to early to mid nineties, early two thousands hip hop music. But you know, that's the golden era. It's Biggie small As, It's Tupac, It's jay Z, it's the Wu Tang Clan, It's nas. I mean, I can go on and on, but it's hard to break free from that. So those are those continue to be my workout tracks. We do as a family like to go to the movies. In the most recent movie that we've been able to see, actually the only movie over the last few months that we've been able to see, is Oppenheimer and it was incredibly well done. You know, I think just the history and the perspective of it. As they were dealing Oppenheimer and others were dealing with sort of the weighty issues of the atomic bomb and what was going to happen and how to navigate that with the challenges of World War two was pretty intriguing and also was food for thought for the moment that we're in right now.

I do try to pick up on good music, although I've got to admit in my boys and others say that my taste is limited because I'm still kind of confined to early to mid nineties, early two thousands hip hop music. But you know, that's the golden era. It's Biggie small As, It's Tupac, It's jay Z, it's the Wu Tang Clan, It's nas. I mean, I can go on and on, but it's hard to break free from that. So those are those continue to be my workout tracks. We do as a family like to go to the movies. In the most recent movie that we've been able to see, actually the only movie over the last few months that we've been able to see, is Oppenheimer and it was incredibly well done. You know, I think just the history and the perspective of it. As they were dealing Oppenheimer and others were dealing with sort of the weighty issues of the atomic bomb and what was going to happen and how to navigate that with the challenges of World War two was pretty intriguing and also was food for thought for the moment that we're in right now.

Absolutely Bill and I saw it last week and we can't stop talking about it, because you're absolutely right. It captured a particular moment, but one that has implications for the challenges that we face both here at home and globally.

Absolutely Bill and I saw it last week and we can't stop talking about it, because you're absolutely right. It captured a particular moment, but one that has implications for the challenges that we face both here at home and globally.

Well.

Well.

As I said in the beginning, I could talk to you all day.

As I said in the beginning, I could talk to you all day.

I'm one of your biggest fans.

I'm one of your biggest fans.

Leader, Hakeem Jeffries, thank you so much for joining me on you and me both because you and me both care a lot about our country, We care a lot about our future, and I'm so happy that you're devoted to public service and providing the leadership that not just Brooklyn and New York, but the entire country and world need well.

Leader, Hakeem Jeffries, thank you so much for joining me on you and me both because you and me both care a lot about our country, We care a lot about our future, and I'm so happy that you're devoted to public service and providing the leadership that not just Brooklyn and New York, but the entire country and world need well.

So good to be with you, Madame Secretary, and thankful for, of course your continued advice and guidance and support all that you've done for the country, all that you continue to do for us as House Democrats and charting a way forward to put the country in the best possible position.

So good to be with you, Madame Secretary, and thankful for, of course your continued advice and guidance and support all that you've done for the country, all that you continue to do for us as House Democrats and charting a way forward to put the country in the best possible position.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much.

All Right, everybody keep your eye on Hakim Jeffries. I fully expect to calling him Speaker Jeffries before too long, that is, if we all do our part to help the Democrats take back the House. But you know, speaking with a keen brought to mind the extraordinary conversation I had on this podcast with his esteemed predecessor, former Speaker of the House, now Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi. It was just a few weeks after the shocking, horrible events of January sixth. The courage and leadership she showed that day will surely go down in history as one of the greatest examples of congressional really American leadership in the face of violence and intimidation. Here she is talking about her determination to get back into the capital on that day to finish the business of certifying the twenty twenty presidential election.

All Right, everybody keep your eye on Hakim Jeffries. I fully expect to calling him Speaker Jeffries before too long, that is, if we all do our part to help the Democrats take back the House. But you know, speaking with a keen brought to mind the extraordinary conversation I had on this podcast with his esteemed predecessor, former Speaker of the House, now Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi. It was just a few weeks after the shocking, horrible events of January sixth. The courage and leadership she showed that day will surely go down in history as one of the greatest examples of congressional really American leadership in the face of violence and intimidation. Here she is talking about her determination to get back into the capital on that day to finish the business of certifying the twenty twenty presidential election.

Okay, so in a bipartisan way. Mis McConnell, Chuck Schumer and I stain Joy was there too, and Kliburn. We all agreed we had to go back to the Capitol. The security was making suggestions that we would all be transported by buses to an undisclosed location. The members would come there and said, now the world has to see. Now, just get it ready, we're coming back, and so you give us a reasonable estimate as to when that could be. But understand this, we're coming back and we're opening the session in the capital of the United States.

Okay, so in a bipartisan way. Mis McConnell, Chuck Schumer and I stain Joy was there too, and Kliburn. We all agreed we had to go back to the Capitol. The security was making suggestions that we would all be transported by buses to an undisclosed location. The members would come there and said, now the world has to see. Now, just get it ready, we're coming back, and so you give us a reasonable estimate as to when that could be. But understand this, we're coming back and we're opening the session in the capital of the United States.

You can find this and lots of other conversations with remarkable leaders by scrolling through our archive. Just go to You and Me Both wherever you listen to podcasts. You and Me Both is brought to you by iHeartRadio. We're produced by Julie Subren, Kathleen Russo and Rob Russo, with help from Kuma Aberdeen, Oscar Flores, Lindsey Hoffman, Sarah Horowitz, Laura Olin, Lona Valmorro and Lily Weber. Our engineer is Zach McNeice, and the original music is by Forrest Gray. If you like You and Me Both, tell someone else about it. And if you're not already a subscriber, what are you waiting for? You can subscribe to You and Me Both on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can find this and lots of other conversations with remarkable leaders by scrolling through our archive. Just go to You and Me Both wherever you listen to podcasts. You and Me Both is brought to you by iHeartRadio. We're produced by Julie Subren, Kathleen Russo and Rob Russo, with help from Kuma Aberdeen, Oscar Flores, Lindsey Hoffman, Sarah Horowitz, Laura Olin, Lona Valmorro and Lily Weber. Our engineer is Zach McNeice, and the original music is by Forrest Gray. If you like You and Me Both, tell someone else about it. And if you're not already a subscriber, what are you waiting for? You can subscribe to You and Me Both on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Thanks for listening and I'll see you next week,

Thanks for listening and I'll see you next week,