#004 Jason Flom with Derrick Hamilton

Published Oct 31, 2016, 3:28 PM

Derrick Hamilton was wrongfully convicted of murder in 1991 and served over two decades in prison after he was framed by the disgraced Detective Louis Scarcella. During an initial stint in prison in his teens for a separate wrongful conviction, Derrick began studying in the prison’s law library, eventually earning a reputation as one of the most highly skilled jailhouse lawyers in the country. When he wasn’t fighting to prove his own innocence, Derrick worked pro bono on the cases of his fellow inmates, and he formed the Actual Innocence Team with other jailhouse lawyers serving time. He was released on parole in 2011 and finally cleared his name in 2014. Today, he continues to work as a paralegal on wrongful conviction cases.

https://www.wrongfulconvictionpodcast.com/with-jason-flom

Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava For Good™ Podcasts in association with Signal Co. No1.

I came from a beautiful neighborhood, had a beautiful life. I went to sleep because September seven was the first day of my high school year. I was gonna be a senior. At twenty two, I was set to start college. I woke up and my life was never the same again. Cops came out with guns drawn, and I never saw freedom ever ever since after that. It's like roach moketown once you get in and I can't mount. This is wrongful conviction with Jason Flom today, I'm honored, and I don't use that word lightly to have as our guest, Derrick Hamilton's welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Glad you're here. Derek. Your story is extraordinary in so many ways, and I don't even know where to begin, but I guess we should really take it back to the beginning and we'll save the reveal like they do in Hollywood, and what you're doing now and what you've accomplished in your life over extraordinary obstacles that are almost unimaginable obstacles. But let's go back to the beginning and talk about how this began. You're You're a New Yorker born and bred like me from Brooklyn, Okay, Brooklyn in the house all right, Neppi Stobinson neighborhood UM with violence was you know, you know it was UM very tough housing project. I grew up in Lafya Gardens um where it was kind of like uh one block with eighty thou people on it, you know, in the housing project. And if you got a basketball, you had to go outside and fight for your basketball. If your mother father bought your pitts sneakers, you had to fight for your sneakers. It was very depressant. And every little kid wants what the next little kid has, and if your family don't has it, they advotate to try to take it. So it was tough stuff and you had some early scraps with a lot. Why don't you talk about it? Absolutely. I was a young kid about sixteen and seventeen and got into a life of crime. UM attempted to rob someone with the prison for that UM. Ultimately I was released and I was out. Some older guys had committed robbery of a bread truck and I actually killed the truck driver. UM. I was outside that day when the crime happened. I've seen the action I actually seen it, and actually the guy that had asked me to look out for them if the cops came, just whistle or something of that sort. The next day, UM, walking down to block, the police officers picked me up. UM, and they don't question me about the crime, but they just take a picture of me and asked me at my Derik Hountard and I said they knew me previously from the incident that I had attempted robbery, so UM, I took ane of it. UM. I left out the precinct. One week later, they arrest me for the murder of James Wolf. And it just stunned me because I know I didn't kill Mr. Wolf. I know I wasn't the father in the crime. But what I learned is that one of the older guys who actually committed the crime, who car was identified as the car scene fleeing from the scene, was able to convince the police officers that he loaned the car to me, a seventeen year old kid, um with no license with anything. And the cops actually believed that story. Um. And we've seen this in a number of cases where the actual killer is and you could say here being smart, right, they know that their way out is depended on somebody else. Well, first of all, I was from the housing project right where the crime happened. He wasn't, so it seemed more obvious that I was, you know, likely suspect to get But in any event, I go to trial and during the course of the trial, my lawyer tells me that there's a witness outside in the hallway who called out and explained to my lawyer that she would refuse to testify. Her name was Patricia Lee. She said the cops had forced her to going to grand jury and identify me as someone she saw outside the housing project who spoke to her after the murder happened and said, I panic and I thought I shot the guy in the arm um. She said she would refuse to testify. She couldn't get up on to stand and tell that lit. My lawyer came back in and reported this to the court and said to the court there's a witness in the hallway that we never know existed who said this to me. And then the court said, well, let's bring the witness. And the witness comes in and the prosecutor asks for something called a so roy sharing in New York and uh, and the s roy sharing is people were so Roys. And what this hearing does is it puts the burden to proof on the prosecutor to proved by clean, convincing evidence that I waved my right to confront the witness at trial if me or someone acting for me made the witness a law refused to testify. So the judge held this terroys hearing, and the witness testified that it was the cops who in fact rereatening her and made her allie the grand jury, that me and nobody acting for me ever had any involvement with her whatsoever. In fact, we never knew she testified in the grand jury. So right, So the judge ruled that day that he could not allow the prosecutor to use this witness grand jury testimony against me his evidence in chief. In fact, he had heard not one iota of evidence that me and anybody acting for me did anything wrong, right, because the case was hinged on the eyewitness testimony, which we know is one of the most powerful things in the criminal justice system. Absolutely right. So now so now you're feeling like, okay, can I go home now? Right? So they drink and they drent for one day and he said, you got to tomorrow to come up with something. Unreleased this guy. We returned to court the next day and the judge said his previous ruling the day before troubled him all night, that he felt that the only one that would benefit from the witness refusal to testify is me or somebody acting for me, and that because of that, he wouldn't allow the prosecute to use the grand jury testimony against me his evidence in chief and find that I weighed my right to confrontation. At that moment, the lawyer that I had a candice courage. The very nice lady Uh asked me that I understand what was going on in the proceedings. I said somewhat, and she says, kid, it is time for you to learn what's going on. And she gave me two cases and said you need to read those overnight. But in any event, she told the judge that she would have to testify and become a witness, and she would have to take the stand to explain what the witness told her in the hallway, in the bathroom, whatever the conversation happened, and had to, you know, show that there's no evidence that me and anybody did anything wrong. The judge reopening hearing, my lawyer testified, and he still stuck by his decision. I was convicted based on the grand jury testimonies of Patricia Lee. I was sentence to twenty five years in life in prison for a murder I did not commit. Um And five years later the appel Divasian second apartment in the case rude that the lower court was wrong, that they vialated my right to confrontation by admitting the grand jury testimonials evidence achieve against me, that I never forfeit my right, that there was no evidence whatsoever that me need by Tampa, with the witness and every verse occasion, we managed it back down for a new trial. Anyone listening is gonna be going just like I'm going, Well, okay, now you go free. Right. Yes, Except that's how what happened, not exactly because I was somewhat coarse to take a plea, an outfit plea. Because I started a second trial. When the Pelo Division reversed the ordered a new trial, the prosecuted instructed the judge to jury, actually in the open insummation, that they should find me guilty of attention to murder and a second degree of crime in which I was acquitted of at the first trial. Sounds like that what jeopardy right? UM. I spoke to my lawyer about it, and I said, this was acquitted that. Um. He brought it to the course attention after the jury stepped out of the room and the judge market was who was at the time she deceased now, UM indicated that, well it was a mistake. We're not giving you a mistrial. UM. Yes, the prosecutor was wrong. Yes she was acquitted of it. But we're gonna dispose of this chase one with another. And my lawyer pulled me to the side and said, loo, as you see, they're not trying to be fair. And you know I had a conviction for a weapon at that time as also, so you said you got five years for the weapon. You're not going to run for man. You see they trying to railroad you. They're willing to give you outfit plea. And for the people that understand well, United States Supreme courted Outfit versus North Carolina. UM rendered that a plea can be took with approachon doesn't have to be alcuted. They doesn't have to talk about the underlying factors of the case. You say, because there's a likelihood I may be convicted, not because I'm guilty. I accept the conditions of this plea. Right, So you're not admitting guilt, but the government is not admitting innocence. Right, So you're basically in like a sort of a gray area, so to speak. Right, But basically you're allowed. You can go home, which is what everybody wants. But you can never sue the government. You cannot sue the state. You cannot. You have no recourse, no recourse at all, right, because they're never admitting that they were wrong. Right, Okay, so now you're out, Yeah, I'm out. Um, and what happened? So now you're twenty, I'm at that point probably about twenty three. Back to bed stock, Yes, back to back is still crazy out there. Still it's crazier than when I left. I mean when I left in eighty three. Um, the drug game wasn't as track cocaine number was in the community at that time. I'm gonna hit my community in a very very hard way. Um, it was like being a different community. I mean, you came home, there were mothers who was strung out on crack, there was whole families who was shrunk out on crack. There was individual now who were drugs ares, who was running the neighborhood. Um, it was just a different environment. Um, this is eighty. This is a father was killed in pepper stopus in UM a year before. So I'm coming home with that. I mean, there was a lot of different She was shout and killed in stopuson a year before that. So I'm coming home with um, you know, the idea of getting my life back together, getting my family back together. I was a mechanic help at the being in garage. I'm probably going to prison. And at a young age, I used to always work at a gas station on Franklin and and Clifton and Brooklyn. And a nickname I had was Amicole Jr. Because I love cars so much, and I worked in grease monkey type of stuff. So when I came on, Benjamin Oliver, my previous employeer, gave me a job and I was working with him, you know, changing all doing little things around the shop. Some things are looking up. I was looking up, and and my father left me some money to invest I got from this insurance policy to invest in the beauty salant. So I opened that in new Haven, Connecticut, and I'm moving along with my life. I'm being knownst to me that there was a detective and members of the district Cottunity's office. By the way, is an interesting combination working on cars and doing beauty right ultimate Paris unisex Alon saying you got Harrison, I got home. Thank go Um Okay, so things are looking at right. And you know, i got two children, a six year old son and uh six year o daughter with tw different women. So I'm trying to be the best father I can, taking them in school, picking them up. And I'm being knownest to me that there was some individuals in law enforcement who had me on the radar who felt that the system had failed them Umi, who still believe that I was guilty for the death of James Wolf, the young man that was killed, and there were some cops that was very upset about it. Um. In January of a friend of mine by the name of the Daniel Cash was shouting killed in Brooklyn outside his home in Battis Stobinson. Yes, Um, I was in new Haven, Connecticut that particular day, having stayed over the night before for going away party for a friend of mine. Um got a phone call Indie Katon, actually Nadaniels cash child mother received the phone call from my mother who indicated him with the cat shouting killed in Brooklyn and at some detectives that came by the house looking for me said this Derek Hire and you weren't there because you were Conne was in Connecticut, And you know, I took it as just talk. When I first heard that the cows was looking for me for this murder, I didn't believe it, you know, I said, people just saying that. But when my mother called me and said, the cows have been by my house, how long have you been out at this time? At this point, I've been out probably probably six months, because probably about six months a New York City detective by the name of Louis Carcella comes to New Haven, Connecticut in the store to that owned and operated the British Lion told you about. Now, let me stop there for a second. Louis Carcella is infamous, and that's a very nice way of saying very much so. Right. Louis Carcella is probably responsible for as many or more wrongful convictions than any um detective in the history of this country. I believe nine people so far have been as my number is correct, but there's dozens of cases that have been reopened because there's it's come out that there was I mean, for just one example, there was six different murder cases where he used the same witness who was a crackhead, where he was applying drugs to who he was I mean, so this woman was so lucky that she witnessed six different murders. I mean, that's impossible, and he was he was bribing her, coercing her. Probably not the most reliable witness ever and maybe on the fifth when you'd go nobody could get that lucky. I mean. But anyway, that's just one example of what he was up to. So he was the last guy in the world you wanted to be involved with if you were in the criminal justice system, because he was going to get a conviction and he didn't care whatsoever that about the facts of the case. He was interested in convictions, not truth. So, okay, so Scarcell is looking for you, but you didn't know who he was though at this point I didn't know who he was at this point, never heard of him. And he walks into the unsectional that kiss me on the side of my face and says Lafia gardens, motherfucker, excuse my binacular and automatically tells me that this guy is from Brooklyn and he says that I'm under the arrest at that time. He said it was for a parole violation and it took me to kissed you on the side of the cheek, on the side of my cheek, you know, Okay, I don't even know. Yeah, I mean that's like something strange, like he thought he was in the movie type of things, the Mafia figure. He has this big you know, he looks like Joe Pessi, a tolder Joe Pessi, and I think he took on that character. But if you ever see him testify or see his grand daughter, he just has that you know, big Italiano mafio so look, and I think he just stopped playing that role at some point. But he came in and kissed me on the cheek, arrested me, took me to the Union Avenue station in New Haven, Connecticut, and told me there that I was being arrested for the definite Daniel Cash, that he had five woodnesses who could't identify me, and say I killed this young man I told him I was innocent, and uh, yes, absolutely told me I was. He said he had five witnesses that disagreed and that he was arresting me for UM. I was transported back to Brooklyn. The rain on the indictment pled not guilty, um, and we began the process. And you know the criminal justice system, here we go again, and yes, here we go again. The soul witness groundhog Day that accused me of the murder came to my lawyer four days after my arrest. Name to my lawyer that she never saw the crime. So there wasn't five witnesses, that there was one. There was one. There was a single witness who had told the cops immediately at the crime scene she didn't see it, that she was at the store. When she came back, a board friend was shot and killed. Um. She was beat up at the scene the crime. Took to the precinct with the technical scars that have told her that if she didn't implicate me in the murder, that she herself would go to jail for the crime. She was on parole. Kids too, They had two children, and they told us they would lock up because her boyfriend was a felon who had just got out of prison himself and she had no business being with him, so they said because you in which case she would lose custody of her kids. We see this over and over again with women. It's one of the strongest threats that you can make to a mother is listen, you're going to testify the way we want to. And they'll probably tell her to and listen, by the way, this guy is a bad guy. If he didn't do this, he did some other stuff. You're doing society favor. They tell whatever the hell they want to tell him. But mostly the only thing a woman in that situation is going to hear is you're gonna lose custody of your kids. And what she said was that, you know, it was either her or meat in her mind that they told her if you don't say this, you're going to jail, and she wasn't going to jail. She, like you said, she had kids, So she just went along with the statement desk with which indicated that he saw me come to the building, and some young man passed me a gun, and I got the gun and I shot down you cast several times inside the vesta of the building, um which doesn't match very well with the original story that she gave where she wasn't there when the crime was committed, so that story changed. Yes, nor doesn't match with the science or the ballistics evidence of the case. Guy was shot with two different weapons and he was shot outside the vessel with the building in the street, with the ultimate shot that killed him, which she never saw, um which she was inaccurate and saying he was shot in the building about one gun. The fact that they learned this before the trial, the fact that they knew that her story was totally inaccurate with science. No one ever went to it and said, hey, you're lying. You know you saw it. How did you miss this? They didn't care, and what they actually did was false heart. Even though she told them and she didn't want to come to the trial to testify, they locked it up on a mature witness order, brought it before the judge who was at with Rappaport in Brooklyn, and told her that she would go to jail, which is on the record, if she didn't come in and cooper rate fully with the prosecutor, not truthfully, but fully. Whatever the prosecutor tells you to do, this is what you better do, Derek. One of the things I find so fascinating. One of the reasons I said I was honored to have you here is because Derek became a very accomplished jailhouse lawyer. Um, if that's I don't know if that's the right way of saying it. So in your second stay in prison, right, which was twenty one years, so here it is. Derek's fifty one years old, spent twenty seven years in prison between the two different wrongful convictions. So that's more than climps about your life in prison, right, And this is one of the things that I find so inspiring. You said something along the lines of I didn't have time to work out And it's funny because you look like I mean, there's a big, big, strong guy. You guys looks like Mike Tyson, honestly, But but you didn't have time to work out him. Because why my whole life was spent on getting out. I was an average student of the law Livebury. Um, I spent all my working hours there if I could, and when I didn't, you would find me probably in the cell reading the book and educate myself on the criminal justice system, the processes that take taking VICTI person to appeal and post conviction. I had to master that. I mean, if I was able to level the playing field, then I had to be the most intelligent person in the court. And that was my goal to study, to walk in the court room, to be able to understand the process. And I just read everything. They happened a lot bury. I just studied everything. But it wasn't just that you had a team right when the team came later. But I tell you about my great team because I looked at it. It was like a law firm in prison, right and too right it was. It was. It was a very good team. In two thousand nine, arrived at the Orburn Correction Facility, maximum security prison. I was in segregation at the time, almost a very dark woman of mine in conservation because I had began going to the parole board in two thousand nine. When I began going to the parobe but I had a dilemma where they wanted you to admit guilt and I couldn't make guilt. And that is a dilemma. We see it over and over again with guys in your situation who are faced with you gotta admit guilt if you want to have any chance to get out. So actually, when you have a twenty five years a life sentence, it's it's a life sentence unless you're going to admit to a crime that you didn't commit. Otherwise it's life because the parole board is never gonna say, yeah, let let this guy go unless you come in and go I'm so sorry. I never should have done this. I feel guilt, I feel remorse, I feel like it. But it's hard to feel remorse for something you didn't do. It. Didn't do it, So I'm not this dilemma tempt suicide. Um the facility no mercy says I faked the suicide attempt, and throw me in a box twenty three hours a day and you have one hour without the side of the day in a cage, a dog kennel type of cage, if you can imagine, right, and you are, I mean, you're just subjected to some of the most horrendous treatment in the world because you're around a lot of mentally ill prisons that bang and throw feces and urine, and you're subjected to a very degrading time. So I'm there and I get to say a letter from the Low Library because the cops bring two books a day, you allowed and special housing. And the letter says, hey, man, I'm glad you're here from God in Loal Liberry. We're waiting for you, you know, to get out and we look forward to working for you. And it's Danny Rinkard. And when I get out of the box um, a friend of mine said, hey, Danny has a group and the group is called Actual Innocence and these guys want you to come work the Lowal Liberator. And you're smart, they know you know what you're doing, and they need you to come out here and lead the group. And at that time they have furnishing box Chore who was another scott Seller victim who's out now as well. It's working as a clerk. And I convince your baka to come to the Lord Library and we developed, we joined actually the Actual Instance team and Danny has and we beat for the up. We beat it up with knowledge. So it's like come on from like Ring Conscience back on Hamilton's and we got Richard Bizario came. We got we got him in there to come with us. He was a part of our our team and we got a nice team of guys who was serious about their innocence. A Cal Harris who ultimately just beat his beat his uh his wife's murder of the state. He was in prison for killing his wife that he didn't do, had three trials with justice honor. He was a part of the team and we would get to the Low Library and we would study each other cases, help each other's out, and help people in the population now. But what we would do would be the most biggest critic on each other's case. And if we thought that there was a question as to a witness credibility, we would bring it up. And we thought there was a floor. And when I brought to the teams, I said, here's a problem I'm having is that pr we need to get public relations, public media involved in letting society know that we exist. And you know, they thought I was crazy at the time. I said, I'm gonna get my family to go do a rally outside of the Brooklyn Supreme Court. And I had a motion at the time, and I sent my family down to do a rally and it wound up on the front page, well a big page whether it was in the daily news, and it says inmates will go free if the court. Here is witnesses and having that auticle around the dairy news for the AI team was a whole different level of organizing. Now Here are guys who were down trotten, who had been beat up by the criminal justice system, motion denied, denied, and they knew they was innocent. There was no doubt that we was innocent. There was overwhelming evidence in each of our cases to prove that. But we were being treated as uh, you know, as if we didn't exist, that we didn't count, that the Lord didn't apply to us, because society thought we were bad people, that we wasn't human beings who deserved to be treated fair. And when that article came out, it showed the team how much power we have if we can organize our families or in society to make noise. And we did that. So now you're organizing against and outside the wall. So what we what? We decided to strategize while to contact Lonnie Sorry, who was a PR guy that worked in a Marty Tankliff case. I reached out to Lonnie and I sent them five hundreds and I said, Lonnie, look that's all I got man, and guys my commentary of money. Hey, I only the eight what we need you? And my wife called Lonnie and said, Lonnie, well, Derek says you organized and the rally outside the city hall. And he says, I didn't tell Derek I was organized in the rally outside city Hall. And then I said, have everybody family call him. So Lonnie was getting phone calls from all our families and friends, and he told my wife what a Derek doing in me? He got people calling me saying I'm giving the rally. But he was convinced to give the rally and it was our first one. We was all in prison. Lonnie went out there without family, about fifty people and we was able to see the pictures and see the news and the way he made of it, and he empowered us. Let us know that you know, people did care about the wrong we convicted because we was on the steps of city Hall and had a nice turnout. So that began us really had then a sense of power normal we can do um with with with just you know, our families and educating people or what's happening to us. So I mean, during that process, I began to write lawyers, UM acting for help. UM. Lannie was helping me. It was very much an advocate of mind at this time helping me and Jonathan Ellostein from Ellistine and Gross from It Begin wrote me back and said that he was sickened about what had happened to me, being a lawyer for seventeen years think he said. He said that he was really troubled how the course was strong, my evidence of innocent in the garbage, and he said, I think you should go to the media with this. And I sent him a check for fifteen hundreds and said this is all I got left. Um, would you be my lawyer? Said, I'm sending your check back because I can't take your money. Your emotion is immaculate, but what I will do is right of friends to the court brief and I act the court to grant you're hearing on your evidence of innocent. Your emotion is immaculate. Yes, it must have felt pretty good about that. And what kind of education did you have before this? G d um Blackstone School to law um, even the college courses they had. You know, I just couldn't see myself spending on my working out was in college and I had to actually learn law, and it wasn't teaching law courses there, So I had no interest in going to college. I had to be in the law libury but um, and at that point Mrs Ellerstein wrote me back. I felt great and um. The judge denied my motion. Um, he found that there was a law of court and the jurisdiction that he couldn't overturn the previous judges who denied previous four or forties and three thirties point thirty. So he was kind of the bond that he would not refers to conviction. At that point, Jonathan Ellerstein became my attorney. He said that he would foil leave to your tele division on my behalf free of charge. And UM. He also um decided to write a letter to the parole boy on my behalf. And he wrote a very churching letter to the parole Board and basically told the parole board that society has no interest and keep an innocent man in prison. So he said, this man is not a risk of society because he's innocent, and he outlined all the events that we had to prove that I was innocent, and he basically invited them to take a look. Um. The barod Board released me based on the letter, amongst other things, and wished me good luck and prove my innocence. Um, this is what you're we in thousand eleven December two thousand eleven. So you've been in for twenty one years on the second wrongful conviction at this point, right, total of seven. If there's only three cases I know of in the hundreds of exonerations that we've had Innocence Project and other projects that there where there's been somebody who's been wrongfully convicted twice, there's only three. So I'm home and I'm busting my butt to find a job. Um A text Scott Burton not I'm a previous lawyers at them home. You know, I got a priallegal degree, and I think post conviction is the place to go. There's a lot of guys left in us in a sense we should work in these cases. And we started working. Um my wife contacts me one day and says she gets an email. We'll share emails, and some investigat or detective contacted and said they wanted to get in touch with you. I said, I'm going to Canada. Now I'm out of here. What do you may they want to get in touch with me. I don't want to speak to nobody. What do you want to talk to me about? Not me? I'm thinking that. So I'm scared and I call a guy and he says, no, I worked for a lawyer by the name of p Assessment. He says, uh, Pierre wants to speak to you about Louis Scott Seller and I says, okay, what do you want to meet me at? He says, up in the bronx by the courthouse. I go up and meet this guy, and you know, I look out, you know, it's crossed the street, you know, checking out the scenario seeing me first, and I see a guy and I called me, picks up the phone, so I'm one of my way says what, I'm over here weight and he looks like a hipster, you know, he got a trench cold on. And I said, well, you don't too much took like a cop because he got you know, the hippy kind of looked with him. Maybe I can trust this guy, so I'll go over and introduce myself. And he tells me that he has a prison uh inmate who will be released in two weeks and that the d a's office in King's County agreed that Louis Scotts tell a frame this guy. And for me it's like wow, like somebody was finally able to establish that this cop has been doing the things we've been arguing for a long time. When I say, we am thinking about Chewbacca, Alvin, Jeannette, Robert Hill, Jaral Orson, all these guys, Nelson Cruz, these guys who I know that he framed personally know that he framed, and I'm saying, wow, we have an opportunity. So in the course of this UM, he asked me about my case, and I said, I have a lawyer, but I introduced him to Jeanette Hill and Austin who he has gotten hissnerated. Uh as of now, they've been resonating and and um, I tell them about those guys and Teresa Goldmans how Scarseller used hunting six different homicides and and he was surprised that even here that because he didn't know about that at the time. And he says, okay, well, I can't tell you the name of my client that's gonna be released, but in two weeks they're gonna release, and please you don't contact me again. In two weeks, David Ranton was released. The first guy who was ever able to establish the scar seller had told the witness to pick out the guy with the hook knows, which was how he identified Roundt. And it established what we've been saying, that this is the tactics and the strategy of this copy used to convict innocent people. So after after having learned this and David Ranta's release, I run into a reporter by the name of Francis Robos from New York Times, and Robos is investigating Julio Asservato case and she calling us to learn more about Hasservado. Asservator was a guy that was accused of killing the real fifty said originally who fifty cent got his name from? And I got Assurveado out of prison on the four or forty emotion, got his judgment vacated and released because he was kidnapped by drug dealers made to kill the fifty cent. It was under durest and once the judge charged the jury, if he can prove he did it undurest, they had to find him not guilty. I got the evidence, got the guy to prison. So rollers wanted to know who was as Surado and he had a car accident in Brookelyn three ascetic Jewels had died. His face was all over the news recently at that time, and I got him to surrender himself, coming and and deal with the case, don't run, because it wasn't his best interest. And she asked, what Why would he be afraid of the cops. Why would this guy be so afraid of the cops. And I said, look, here's a guy that was arrested previous. He told the cops the truth, how he was kidnapped, pistol with a made a committed murder. They didn't believe him. He spent ten years in prison. Had I not got him money, probably would have still been there. I said, is it got it's afraid me. I'm a guy, big guy, but I'm afraid of the cops. Cops framed me twice, and you would be afraid of the cops if they framed you once. I mean absolutely. And I said, look, I was just informed by a lawyer that in two weeks the cop that framed me and others is for the first time going to be revealed as being that type of cop. I said, if it happens, get in touch with me. I'll give you the evidence to stab that there's others and we made a deal. In two weeks round it was released, I got a call from Francis Rovers and says, hey, you got that evidence that you was just talking basically, And I introduced it to Jeanette and she and she did a very good investigation, and the New York Times got the King's kind of das offers on the Charles Eyes then to agree to look at fifty five of scar Seller cases. Fifty five at that time, people, I mean, when you think you know and everything is it's so hard to imagine, I mean, even what one person could go through. But fifty five is such a huge number. Yes, the one person could cause that much destruction and damage to so many people's lives. Ironing sidentification, false confessions, fail to turn over the discovery. This is our criminal justice system, man. When you deal with the ones that we can fix, like Ronan sidentifications, Um, there have been studies that you know about and I know about that says that we can fix the Ronining identifications by having something called double blind lineups where the cops doesn't know who the suspect is, so there's no fear that they will suggest to pick out number three or pick out the guy with the hook knows. But I want to go back there for a seconse. I'm glad you brought that up. So the Supreme Court actually took on this issue. Yes, and I'm reading from a book I consider like the Bible, which is called Convicting the Innocent by Brandon Garrett. Shout out to shout out Brandon. So in Manson Births Breath, weave a case involved in a prison custodian and Manson not the famous serial, the U. S. Supreme Court noted the dangers of suggestive identification procedures. The Court had long recognized quote the vagaries of I witness identification where the annals quote the annals of criminal law are rife with instances of mistaken identification. And in that in that decision, the Court affirmed that the due process clause of the Constitution, which everybody's familiar with, embraces the right to be free from unduly suggestive eyewitness identification procedures. Okay, now we're on the right track, Thank you, Supremes. Right, Okay, Each such as showing the eye witness a single photograph of the suspect, or telling the witness whom to identify any lineup which we know has happened over and over again, including in some ways in your case. However, and this is where it's it all falls apart. However, the Court and Manson, in the same rule added a caveat that undercut the power of that holding, because even they found that even if the police engage in suggestive procedures so potentially suggestive that they violate due process, the identification may still be admitted at trial if it is otherwise quote reliable. I mean that is just I mean, okay, so they said you can't do this, but it's okay if you do. Yes. Basically, that's what they said, right, yes, basically because who determined reliability number one? And they didn't set forth for tests to determine reliability. But they said, if there's an independent source. So now what they do is they instructor witness. Hey, hey, you've seen a guy before, right, I was seeing before. Yeah, I've seen him once or twice and the supermarket with his mother, and they make that the independent source. However, if the person could have identified you, then when it cops first accident who committed the crime, he should have said, hey, a guy that I saw on the supermarket with his mother. You know, it was a guy who committed his crime. That's the problem. A lot of times when they say something suggestive, they allow them to use the reason that they believe is reliable that no reasonable person would find to be relicked, which they can invent. And we all know so basically that that's a that's a ruling that has to be amended because it's so, it's so, it's really it's such a terrible missed opportunity. Whether it's the Preme Court recognized this problem them that has been responsible for so many wrongful convictions, including yours, But then they undercut their own decision and made it basically truthless and meaningless, and so so then we wind up in the situation that we're in. I think that the audience should work on with us putting prosecutors in office to understand the danis of wrongviction. In Brooklyn, we had a prosecute to run on that platform. We need shout out to one of the best there ever, was twenty something wrong for convictions and overturns, yes, overturning two years. We need prosecutors who are willing to understand that a part of their job a part of the role. It's quasi TOI issue, you know, Canada to the courts, fitness to the cues, and we get that, then we can change the system all around the country. We just need prosecutors who just don't believe in locking them up throwing a key way but injustice. Don't forget to give us a fantastic review wherever you get your podcast s, it really helps. And I'm a proud donor to the Innocence Project and I really hope you'll join me in supporting this very important cause and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Innocence Project dot org to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd like to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Awardis. The music in the show is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one

Wrongful Conviction

Hosted by celebrated criminal justice reform advocate and founding board member of the Innocence Pro 
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