Welcome to Worst Year Ever, a production of I Heart Radio. Somewhere around midnight in the minutes separating December six and December seventh, two thousand fourteen, an unknown person set off a chlorine gas bomb at Bidwest FurFest, the largest furry convention in the United States. Nineteen people were hospitalized. The event could properly be described as a terrorist attack. Folks could very well have been killed. The story was met with a mix of shock and ironic chuckles from tens of thousands of Internet users. People gocked for a day or so, and then it faded into the background. The case was never solved, and the culprit is at large today. In September of two thousand nineteen, almost five years later, basically a Nazi meal ou Uinopolis registered to attend Midwest FurFest. He publicized this immediately in The event was a clear attempt by a well known troll to earn a few more precious hours of media spotlight by entangling himself in drama with a community mainstream journalists loved to cover with rye grins on their faces. Convention organizers immediately rejected his application to attend and banned him from the premises. He threatened to show up anyway. Rumors began to circulate that the Proud Boys would be in tow, which led to rumors that Antifa, or perhaps furry Antifa, would also be in attendance. Somewhere in the middle of all this, the cast of Worst Year Ever decided Midwest FurFest was probably something we should attend, so we did myself, Robert Evans and my colleagues Cody Johnston and Katie Stole. We talked to several members of the fandom, and their interviews revealed a sprawling tale of a battle for the heart and soul of furreedom against many of the same forces currently threatening to terror American society. Apart, this episode is not the story of that battle, because holy ship, we really, we really bit off more than we we bargained for, and it's going to take us some time to get this together and force Daniel at Machete Point to edit it. But we put a little something together for you today to tide everybody over. That's right. Uh. As we've been going through this, we've been recording our thoughts and our experiences. It's a little bit of a peek behind the curtain as to what's been happening here this weekend. If you follow us on Twitter, you've seen some posts about it. But you know, we we talked about our impressions and some the stuff that we've learned, uh, and our experiences here. Yes, as you said, while we pour through all of the interviews and documents and chatlogs that we have and and put together the final polished piece, which will be released at a later date. Yeah, hopefully in like a couple of weeks, not too long from now. We just want to make it, you know, good good. There was a point sometime yesterday where I was like, oh, this is going to take a little longer. It really came together, um, and everything became clear on what was going on, and uh, the story revealed itself and uh, it's a very interesting story that I think is relevant to everybody, and uh, we're excited to tell it. But in the meantime, here's our experience in Chicago, and it's not This is not very political. This is not a normal episode of words. You're ever you're not going to learn much about American politics from this. I think we think it's it's fun. There's some funny moments if you if you enjoy us as people you might enjoy this. We mainly wanted to have something together just so there wasn't an empty space this week and to let everybody know we did the thing. We got a story. It's going to be a sizeable like little mini series. Um, and we just you know, it's going to take us little time to be and hopefully this little diary that we've done will give you some contexts to keep in mind as you are listening to the other episodes. Yeah, it's also I think this will be probably the first episode that is the best example of the show that exists so far, but not so the actual thing we're putting together that isn't done now. Yeah, so don't be put off by this specifically, isn't your taste when we pitched this show, Like you know, we've been doing you know, biographies of the different candidates, and we've done some specific issues and we'll we'll do more of that because this is a weekly show and we can't go travel around the country every single week. We're not aware of enough different places to go to do that fifty something times next year. Um, so you know, we need we need to provide context. We have a base of episodes for people to listen to. Part of this is just us keeping ourselves informed, but the real, the heart and soul of the show's explorations of different American subcultures and how this election and the increased politicization of our society has like affected and changed them, and like this is the first example of that. How they react, how how they deal with it, maybe bits of information or tactics or just like nice little moments that can help you get you through the worst year ever. Yeah, yep, So enjoy this fun little interlude that's not too serious today or not. The final part it will be very different. But please definitely come back for the next two episodes because I promise they are fascinating. Yeah. Yeah, and these are and this one's fun. This one's fun. Those are fascinating. Yeah, we didn't get any audio of fires that were starting. There were fires. There were fires. Okay, you guys are just ruining the surprise boilers, everything so down down do I don't know how to introduce this episode of the podcast. You will not This will not be the first thing I've heard in this episode. Probably not. Yeah, We're we're at Midwest for Fest nineteen December that's the month, the year. What day? Well, you know what day is? Friday? Thursday, the only summer day in December as far as i'm only, it's got to be the fifth or six. Maybe it's sixth, fifth earlier. But we were traveling here. As you might be able to tell, this is our our first audio irie from our trip to convention, our first UH field trip of the season. We're all drunk, we're all tired, we're all angry. Katie lost her phone. I loved it. There are we taking care of it? Customers services hung up on Robert. It's been a home bad. Thankfully we got home and I was able to turn all the burners on the stove repeatedly. You know what the worst part is as I can't even check our steps to see him, which we walked back and forth around that, because I feel like we should start with um kind of our initial impressions on the convention. Um. Yeah, I felt. Walking out of the of the lift that took us there, I saw more people in first suits than I had ever seen prior in my life. Ever, like this second, it was like, oh, this is the world now. What surprising how quickly I became used to it. You just see him, yeah, and I was like, oh that's a nice one. Oh interesting, yeah, and then it becomes like, oh yeah, oh it's a bird with a yeah. My favorite was the woman walking down the hallway, that walkway that we kept getting very long, what's up with that? Um? And she just was going she was lovely. Everybody's so lovely, everybody very I was stopped by so many people just like it, just interacted with so many people in a friendly way that you do not see at most conventions certainly, but like certainly not just around town in your life. Yeah, it was. It seems like generally just a very sweet group of people who are there to have a fun time and uh, just a bunch of positivity, you know. So I think with that all in mind, I want to go through. UM. So obviously like the big news heading into Midwest for a fest. The reason we're here, the reason it was any kind of attention outside of the community on this is that Milo Janopolis, famous Nazi, famous Nazi. Yeah he's he's he's on video, Hile Hitler Nazi. Um he is. He has chosen to display himself as such. I don't think he actually believes in anything. Yeah, it's hard to say. He registered for the convention and then publicized that he registered for the convention so that everybody would talk about it. And then when he got kicked out of the convention because they people who organize it were like, you don't need as not under no circumstances, he uh made a big stink about it and is apparently registered under someone else's name at the hotel and promising to show up, So we don't know what will happen. And to be very he could show up in a furry costume, so I don't believe that they're called costumes. It does sound like no one would care if he just showed up in cost him because like, what's that even going to do? Would what would the issue be? Um? But it doesn't seem like his vibe not to show up here and not show up in a big Yeah, I take it back, I said earlier. Doesn't believe anything, but he does. He believes in getting Aman. Yeah, he believes in Showman losing himself kind of even though it probably hates himself too. But yeah, and it's there's a couple of interesting things. So one of the people that we communicated with prior to this, Um has been infiltrating some of the There's a couple of chunks of the furry community, which I'm sure we'll have covered in like a little bit of an intro at some point due diligence. The alp furs is the term people tend to use for them, and Um, they've been talking with him about like ways to smuggle him into the convention and stuff. And one of the things they talk about is that how the impossibility of keeping the culture of the convention the same and actually stopping him from getting in even if he was he was in costume. So I want to read a quote from one of these conversations be found between these alt furs who support Milo talking about what would happen if he were came in and a costume and they tried to search people by having them remove the head beasts of their costumes. UM. I don't know if Milo realizes just how important this dynamic is to fur suitors, but it would it will work strongly in his favor, even if he doesn't fully realize why some suitors are so into their character that it would be tantamount to violating their identity to ask them to remove their head. The transgender suitors would be a good example of this. So like there's this this understanding with the people who are like urging this that it would be like a violation. Someone called it a real life version of papers Please and another comma to respond to that, and it will totally feel that way to every fur who get stopped by Constaff for a random spot check. The move to check everyone would completely destroy that con like completely, So I'm under the assumption that they won't take those dramatic steps. They'll have to accept that someone's crashing the party and deal with the back list that they'll get from the shitty eight percent of the fandom. There's this acknowledgement that like they can't stop us or they'll destroy the hobby. And there's a post from Milo from a couple of days earlier on telegram where he says, you have to destroy the ship they love. You have to get MFF this convention, Midwest FurFest and all the other conferences closed down every period, single period, year period. So there's this understanding like they know exactly like what they're they're hoping to do um, which is like there was a part of it that was we talked to a number of people, and we got some reactions from folks who are mainly and like I don't care if they're here as long as they don't Right, there's a vibe here that is just sort of joyous and fun and lighthearted, like they're there to have fun. They're not there to do political things, the stuff that Milo wants to do, and specifically talk about how this is an escape from political and it's like and if he's going to show up, they say they feel the safety of their numbers. I think of the fact that like there's ten thousand people that attend this convention and whatever the number one and so, but you know, and and we talked a lot about how you know, they they're very protective of their community and not accepting these people that are the outliers that are the you know yeah, um, And it's it's interesting that that's the target, like just the little time we've spent of just like but these people are very they're only here for a nice time, and they all seem sweet and like they don't even want to talk about the stuff that you talk about, like all the Milo stuff, like when like his feminism stuff, and it's like all is like white nationalism garbage that he tries to bring in. They don't care and don't want to talk about it. That's not why they're here, and he's like forcing it in a way that is just really emblematic of like who he is and what he's there to do. Um, because he sort of disappeared for a while for many many reasons. But knowing that like is ramping up, like he needs attention, he needs to disrupt people having a good time, some of who might give him what he wants, which is like to piss people off and make a scene, right, because like even the the idea of going in and having to remove his head to like prove that it's him that's going to cause a ruckus and a problem and that's the only reason he wants to do it. Yeah, and it's um. You know. One of the other things they ran into in that chat was people talking about, like there was someone who made a post saying I want to have a sweater custom printed that says Nazi fers, don't fucking worry about it, just have a good time and stay safe. Um, But I knew I'd just be asking for trouble. So someone who wanted to make like a sure explicitly saying like I don't care if you're not, and someone else commented that like, oh yeah, there were no politics, just fun ribbons printed out earlier and they went over poorly. Um, and the way they're framing it is like it's because these these leftists want to make everything political. But like, I think both what we saw tonight and like kind of what you can read between the lions, there's like, no, no, you're the ones trying to make things political, like you're you're you're like by by framing it around Nazis and you're making it very clear like they don't care what you believe. If you don't make it clear, I am a Nazi and I'm going to be here. You've made it political. Right as soon as you uh, you're wearing a your fersna and it's a wolf or whatever, a tiger with a fucking swast that immediately well that's a political thing. You're you're doing it right, You're not doing it. Yeah, it's inherently political. You're making it political. You're entering a non political space. Stickers and those slogans like yeah, they would be cool with that because that's what they think. They don't they agree, and that there was there was kind of like, you know, I read through so many fucking posts of these fucking assholes, um, and like a third of them will be like normal you know, furry stuff where they're like, look at this is a cute drawing of or whatever. This is a a fun you know, animation of a you know, animal thing. They have a bunch of different terms. I don't I don't understand all that, but it's like I assume pretty normal furry stuff. It seems innocuous. And then there will be like like there was a drawing of this Buddhist monk who's the head of an anti Muslim terrorist group, and someone drew his first sona and they were like, look at how cool this is. Like this guy really removes some kebab which is like an anti Muslim meme that was like painted on the Christus shooters and stuff too, and it's like, um and and like my Loo commented on a lot of this stuff, and he liked a lot of the hardcore right wing stuff, but he also liked a lot of the innocuous stuff. And there was these conversations we would have with people tonight where they were like, yeah, maybe he maybe, Like if he enjoys himself and he just wants to participate, none of us care. But it's like he doesn't because his whole thing he has to make it political because if things aren't political, they can't be controversial. And if the yeah, exactly making a thing about it, then he doesn't care. But I do, like, Yeah, show up with your outfit, have a good time. Nobody know it's you. I bet you have a nice time because everyone's really really nice. But conversely, I don't think you'd have a nice time because no one would know him, because no one would know exactly. That's this whole thing. Yeah, Um, it's very it's very interesting, weird dynamic that like part of me is like I don't even want to talk about him now and even talk about we're here, but we're here and everyone's so nice. Uh, and maybe nice will happen and that'll be great. It's it's it's a free wine, Katie. It had to happen. I will continue to turn off bad for the environment, Katie. To have them on, yes, no, to have them off interesting, you have to burn up all of the natural gas so that we can get off of using natural gas. That's how it works. Honestly, I think I agree with both sides here in Both sides have good points interest, so we're going to keep the burners on. Medium says that I can go into my app. The best way to contact him would be to go into the app, I swear to these people and pull down menu and then you can call him. I don't love that we came here planning to talk about Nazis and the real pet guys are left. Just use the app, download the app onto the table. Wild like, because if you want to go all right, we're not talking about the FurFest anymore. If you want if you lose your phone and you want to go onto the website lift dot com to report that you've lost your phone. In the Lift, you have to put in your phone number to log in, and when you put in your phone number, they say, we've sent you a text with a confirmation number that you have to put in the website. But you can't put in that confirmation number because you don't have your phone. I'm very well aware. It's wild like. It's like they did it on purpose. They know they know what they're doing to collect they're trying to get attention. Much like they want attention, they want to get a rise out of you. They're trying to piss you off. I actually think so here's here's why we're angrier about Left than we are even about mel Leianopolis and his attempt to disrupt these these lovely people just trying to have a fun week, just wonderful people. Uh. And it's because as hateful as Milo's intentions are, at least he has intentions, and Lift just doesn't care what They just don't care. And that's more. In curious Twitter, people got back to blah blah blah. Looks like you're already in touch with Lost and Found team over emails, best resource to look into arranging the return of your known arranging. It sounds like a hostage. It is a hostage situation. They're holding a hostage for fifteen dollars. It was when we started this process I realized it immediately me. So their solution is there, the original But they said, we can see they are currently reaching out a conrad. He's been given your friends phone number. Do you guys have your phone? They did something, so that asshole is just ignoring it either, do that or they're lying, or they're lying right. Either way, I'm probably buying myself the new phone. Stay tuned to hear more in the next episode of whatever the Hell of Us winds up becomingly is the worst year ever. Now, now before we go, predictions for tomorrow, I'm going to buy a phone, Cody. Um, I think it's gonna be fine. Actually, um, I uh, I don't think if he's here, I think he's I just think he's I just I don't think he has it in them. I I kind of you know, there was a fact part of me that was like frustrated not hearing more anger from people tonight. And there's a part of me that's like, maybe the best defeat he could get is if he shows up and a bunch of really friendly fairies are like, all right, if you're a dick, we'll make you leave. That's the That's the the thing about it. We're like talking to people today and listening to them. That's the only vibe I got the like from everybody's like, yeah, if he wants to show up and have fun, that's why we're here. We're here to have a good time with everybody. And like we're not going to buy into what every question like wearing a mask, who gives a ship? And then and they're also aware that like he wants attention, he wants us to get mad. His whole thing is to like poke you with stuff he doesn't believe in order to get a rise out of you. So people center and so forth. And I think that enough people are onto him and don't care. That's the and that's the thing. The laughter and not caring is like the worst thing you can do to these people. I hope that the ultimate like final, you know, defanging of what's left of me Loiannopolis is done by a bunch of furries who are just too nice to rise to his bait. You know, I think that's really possible. Like this is like a real uttering and his it's not it's not an inspiring one. It's just but it is inspiring to me. Just spen it positive um that general attitude there and in the positivity that I did feel in this community, And I think there's a lot we can learn from that. Yeah, it's really cool. And like he's just he has sputtered for a long time. He's floundered. He's like he's he's he's got some issues. He has some problems, um and uh. He loves his extravagant seeming lifestyle, and it does seem like his last grasp and relevance is to go to a group of people who are only here for a really nice time and to make them mad. And I don't think he will be able to do that. Fingers crossed, fingers crossed, fingers crossed. Well, we'll check back in tomorrow. Pody Johnston, Robert Evans, Katie stolen here, probably new phone. Alright, bye, Well get everything so down, down down, so we're back. We're not. I mean, this is the second day of our diary. We just recorded a great thing content you'll never hear because Katie fucked up. We opened the last one, the good one, with a with a freestyle rap by Cody that was I think perfect. It was, And I think the only possible way for you to show your your contrition, Katie, is for you to open this worst audio diary with a freestyle rap. Could would you lay a beat down? That's the time machine, Joyce. You have to stop it. Look, I'm really really sorry. I don't know what happened. I thought I was recording and it turns out I wasn't. So now I'm wrapping. I hate it. I don't want to be doing it either, But here we go. We're going to talk about something we picked up in the ether of for contest? Is that Okay, no, it's perfect time, right. You read it. You read it last week, She's been practicing it. I think I just discovered a hidden talent, turned down thousands of dollars worth of I swear to God it was recording. And maybe I'm wrong because I don't believe in God, but I thought it was. And now here we are thinking of hidden talents, hidden talents, birds, animals for fest failed it. Yeah, I think that's Yeah, that's what we're here to talk about. We don't want to talk about my phone that I found. I think we have to absolutely have to we do because the last episode you slandered a good man repeatedly. We all, we all, we all did we all mediate the attacked the Yes, I just ruined the story. But I was really upset. I was gonna, you know, chill out for a second, and I said, and all of a sudden, I was like, well, why don't we go check the ground where we got out of the car. So the boys went down and found the boy. We're going to get to that my The boys went down and found my phone in the middle of the road. In the middle of the road, saw it from very far away. It took no time at all. If we had spent four seconds in extra after realizing you didn't have your phone looking around on the ground and most most most we would have found it instead of resignedly being like, well, I got to go inside and try to figure this out, because who would have thought that it was on the ground outside the car? So okay, I apologize. The point still stands lifts policy because if you had lost your phone, and if it was not on the ground, just calling to I still wouldn't have It was still would have been really really hard. You still would have had to log into the website by giving your phone number and receiving a tax on a phone on the website. On the website, and we are going to get to for fest, I promise you. But on the website when I'm trying to track down my phone, it says the best way to get your phone back is to open the app and find the driver's profile and contact the driver. I don't have the phone to do that anyway. The boys are blameless in that except that it's no you can They're blameless. You're blameless, You have no responsibility. I take the responsibility what you do have responsibility for and honestly both of you, because shame on you. Cody um Robert almost burned down, almost down. Propert turns on keeps turning on all the burghers on full blast in the kitchen and landing paper towels on fire, and when he and Cody go down to find my phone, he brings a burning paper towel out with him and is surprised when they catch on fire all the way and burn his hand, and he drops it on the wooden stairs in that house, walking downstairs, saying, I don't think I'm gonna make it. You're gonna make it modest. The instant I made the decision to walk down the stairs with you, I knew I wasn't gonna be Yeah, it was very holding fire. You are full of blame for allowing this day. It's really mostly his faulty picked up your phone from the ground and I handed it to you, and I stomped on the embers that were on the rug of the stairs after Robert brought fire outside. Very little damn. Also very little damn. I don't know if you recall all of the fire alarms going off, smoke detective that was. That was a different thing. It was a different fire you lit. It was also a paper towel. No, no, no, I put a box of cereal on top of the burner, So completely different situation. I just want you all to be comforted and know that we are conducting ourselves with the utmost professionalism. Everything I've done, losing the phone, starting several fires, drinking very heavily, all of that we pulled right out of NPR style Boodlines handbook. Yes, everything to the book. What's an NPR person? Glass? Ira Glass told us to Terry Grows can't stop starting fires? She burned out Chicago did not know that? Wonderful for her? Oh she does, she does. Um, shall we talk about fest Yeah? We probably. That's what we're here. We did it on the first recording we tried, so I think we should do it now. Yeah, we're doing It's the reason we're doing this that we thing that we don't know what we'll do with it. Um it was good. I like, I liked I liked all the people we met. Um, you know, I'd be interested Katie and kind of hearing you sort of summarize our day and then we can kind of dig into things with a little more detail. Yes, please please don't go. Maybe sometimes we are talking about the best. Well, we got up and made coffee. It took us a while to get out the house. Uh, not bad. We went to can you stop? Unacceptable? Both of you. You're you're impossible. We're Sophie when you need her. She really keeps this train on track, um and on fire. She would not have stance helped me light them? Oh, Robert um, And then everybody clapped. So we got two for fest and we met up with one of your Sourcesces had an interview and as guy um, and we realized Robert forgotten the recorder. That was an error. That was a tactical error because the recorder there was a recorder. We've got two here sitting on the table and there next to the said Robert, is there a recorder in that bout? Do we need to put it into? You said, yep, it's in there, And I said are you sure? Yep? And it wasn't in there. I have to say, I'm sorry I threw you under the bus. No, no, no, that was that was my end, Cody's fault. I take full half responsibility. So I do want to say though they're not identical. Um, there is one of them, and listeners you can guess which one. Uh. The place where the card goes covered in knife marks. That's how Robert opens. It has been knife to open many many times over its career. Anyway, neither of those are in the bag. Uh. And we hear in this busy hallway you'll hear one of these these interviews, I'm sure in the other episode of this. Uh. And we don't have recorders, so we use Robert's iPhone and we're like crouched weird I'm sorry, Robert's phone Galaxy right phone, and we're like, we're crouched over these weird packing boxes recording. And it was a fascinating interview. Uh, just about constantly being interrupted by people walking down, weirding things, big loud music going on and off in the dance room. Yeah, there was a thumping part. There was clearly a range that started above. So we did our best, but it was a fascinating interview. Um, what did she talk about in brief, what did she talk about? What we talked a lot about the all right furry community or that faction UM about the the gas the attack from the community has risen to kind of defend itself, and she herself has done a lot of work, uh it, creating policies and helping weed out these members of the community. And I think it's a little bit of unsung work that a lot of people don't really know what's happening. UM, but there's a reason why they've been able to push back against UM, against those kinds of elements UM over the last couple of years. Uh So it was really fascinating. I mean, lots of other stuff that we talked about UM. And then we were starving. Well before that, I took a lift all the way home to get a recorder and registered. We got our badges, Center badges and Cody's. Well. Shortly after this, Cody and I, while you were still yeah, I know it's about to happen, we went to the dealer room and we picked up this very exciting moment. I can't so I'm still I'm still buzzing. Cody's very first lanyard got a lanyard lanyard combined. They're really nice looking. They're really very good lane in yourds handmade, beautiful, very nice. Lady made them. Yeah, I when I when I bought mine, she was like, this is the one I have, and then one that I right then, So you know it's good, um, the first of many. Yeah, we're gonna be You're gonna be so full of laneyards. You're not gonna know which directions left, which directions right, because it's just gonna be lanuards. I still don't have a lanyard, and I'm okay with it. You chose not to spend money in a lanyard forage, kept it in my wallet. I didn't spend dollars or whatever. Okay, you'll get dozens um for free. So then I met up with you guys. Once I got my past, then we decided to get before you met up with us, you want to tell the story of the of the mystery. Just before we were walking in the dealer room and looking at the products and things. You can get a lot of a lot of bowls of dice. I'm gonna guess as as I said earlier, that the Vinn diagram of people at the convention and people who play a lot of D and D is just the circles, the circle everybody. Everybody games um, just like everybody poops. And as we were walking around, we see that the line that sort of you shuffling along is sort of veering off to the left. And then you see a woman on a chair and sort of waving people around and then um, something fills your nostrils a little bit and you're like, well, that's that's unique. That's good, that's a unique specific smell. Um. And there was just sort of poop smeared um in a bit of a circle like skids skids across maybe maybe like five by five ft area. It was. It was. It was not a huge quantity of poop, but it was smeared over a white area. Yeah, it seemed like maybe it happened and then uh, that person kept going and then another person uh didn't see it and then noticed it and then they took care and it was it was we're all dog owners, cat owners. Yeah, it was not an animals. It was not an animal. Well humans are and it was a human. It was human. It was distinctly human, no doubt. So that happens so that happens. But that was also there was a nonchalance about it. Everyone's like okay and moving along. It happened, and there's no judgment, judgment, a little bit of judgment. They just they don't problem just it's it's funny because it's because I mean, it's poop. I'm going to not laugh about something everybody does, as we've discussed, because we does, and it's funny. Um, But there was no judgment. Okay, especially it's especially funny because like all these people in the first suits, there were dogs walking around. But it was then we decided to go get lunch and lovely timing. Um, and we walked to this place and it turns out to be pretty fancy. It's pretty expensive meals. Robert ordered, you both ordered drink the fanciest place we have been collectively roughly a cumulative half of one of our lifetimes. Yes, yeah, uh, And a funny thing happened. Is this interesting to you guys, I'll never forget. Let's see if it scans is funny. But Robert and Cody both ordered the lobster bisque, very fancy, and it's this place is haiti twity, it's fancy when we when we sit down and they don't just give us our water, they ask if we want ice water, perry A or Fiji. Yeah, so that's what we're working with. Um. But we started walking and they asked for our coats and we're like, no, thank you, and we got some looks like they were very disappointed that we were going to be dining there. But so Robert's eating, they're eating their soup and the major d or whoever, walks up and leans over his shoulder and he says, excuse me, sir, is there something wrong with your soup spoon. Let's be fair. Is a soup spoon. Every spoon soup spoon? It was. It was one of the funniest things. I was so taken aback asking me that question. This one's fine, the most passive, aggressive, clearly enjoying im. Somebody like God wrote that moment. It just felt like a really it's a very funny juxtaposition between this community of loving people doing whatever. And then but the food was delicious, so there's that. It was good. It didn't like that waiter. That's okay. I wish in retrospect I had said, yes, there's a hole in it. It's very entity, but I know it's there. I am aware. Oh you should have said, yes, it's filthy. Then after that we went back to the convention. We wandered around a bunch, did a lot of uh of you know, just interacting and watching, observing. We went to the art room, we went to the the arcade room. UH saw some dungeons and dragons briefly, uh dragons, And then we had another interview. We ended up coming back and we had a skype interview. So it was a very full day. Um, I'm just blown away by this community to get back to what we're here to talk about. And I've said this before. Uh, just it's just so loving and welcoming and creative. And the suits are all really quite exquisite. I mean when you think about how much craftsmanship goes into it, and the more you talk to people, you realize how deeply personal each suit is to them and how their personas are a reflection of themselves. That a lot of people say that they don't they don't feel like they can be them their full selves in their normal life, but here they can be because the world's garbage, but here they're safe and free, and you feel that everywhere you go, it's like a markedly different vibe in their versus out in the real world. And it was interesting because there's clearly these attempts to bring some of that toxicity into the community with the you know, there was a chlorine gas attack that you know, part of what we were doing here was kind of investigating because they were We heard initially some different things and people said it's probably an accident, some people said it was intentional. Some people said it was intentional but not a terrorist attack. Um. I think our conclusion, without spoiling the main shows that it was definitely a terrorist attack. It was done on purpose. It was done on purpose by a member of the community who subscribed to fringe political beliefs that were not common among the others. And there has been a corresponding effort by people within the community to defend their fandom from this sort of fringe racist, xenophobic, hateful Nazis' nail it down, Yeah, um, the Nazis there is, Um I would I would vote for that beats Nazis. Wouldn't that be good? Yeah? Is that how you make boiling Nazis? That is how it's Russian? Didn't know it's French. They did not make much bully a base. But that's no. They made it out of like Nazi bodies. They didn't kill a lot. That's why it was such a delicacy for so long. That's why another group of people had to make borsched out of Nazis. Um. So yeah, we we saw like a really resilient community defending itself. Um. And that was that was you know, the interviews re that our experience at the convention revealed a lot of people getting something very much needed. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that was the overwhelmingly just the overwhelming positive environment. And for that and knowing that there are these people sort of trying to infiltrate it and organizing and trying to protect it in a way that seemed like even the like their methods seem healthy and positive. Um. I imagine we're going to talk about it include this later on. But like even like reaching out to these people and trying to help them, uh, everybody there is just fairly yeah, like I like all the hugs. Yeah, yeah, the hugs um, something we touched on in the first Lost recording. Um, it is incredible. You're walking around and you just see everybody's giving each other hugs and not just like quick hugs. We're talking about big, long, fingering hug and that's it's all part of it. It's just so much love. And I think that I think, I mean I wanted hugs. I wanted to ask people for hubbs. I didn't because the way they were doing it seemed like it seemed like like you were saying, like a lot of these personas are are aspects of their personality they don't feel comfortable expressing. They don't feel like themselves necessarily, um, but when they're in their first suits, they can't express that. And a lot of it seemed like you don't necessary you're not necessarily a physical person. You don't show a lot of physical intimacy between people. I mean, you're not comfortable being touched. But when you're in that outfit, that's when you allow yourself too. So there are a lot of hugs like they do linger and it seemed like it was like, oh, you've you haven't hugged somebody in a long time. This is when you do. This is when you yeah, exactly, um and yeah, it was it was just really nice to see every every every like you'd be like, oh, look and and I liked every time that we were walking around with somebody that we were have been talking with or whatever. UM tons of friends, tons of friends and running into people they haven't seen in a long time, and just the love and the joy it truly is. I'm it reminded me a lot of my own subculture, which I talked about a little bit. I do a lot of regional burning Man events which are quite different, UM from the the big one UM down in Texas particularly, and there's a lot of hugging. There's like essentially an airlock a camp that greets you when you enter, when you get on the land, which is always out and the out in the booneies away from civilization and nearly always starts with like hugs and people in costumes, naked people. This sort of like immediate like blitz of all the things that are different about where you are than the place you came from. UM, and people welcome you home. UM. And it's it's very much the same energy and I think fulfills pretty similar roles. And that was kind of one of the things that was surprising to me was recognizing, UM, this is sort of their way of fulfilling like in my community. We we love a lot of fires. We blow a lot of things up fires interesting, Yeah, yeah, way more than the ones I started the other night. And you feel safe doing that in that environment. Yeah. And in fact, there's always like a full fire department worth of volunteers who are actually firefighters, who just are That's another thing they do, is that the rest of Maybe that's a good place to do fires instead of being kitty. I challenge you to name a single person who's been harmed by a fire. So many people, but not name the girl down the street for me when I was a kid, exactly Stacy Solar. Earlier today, Robert Evans said his hand hurt. I said, for some reason, for some reason, and we don't know the reason. We haven't fully ongoing investigation on one. Roberts hand in conclusive as to this moment. Anyway, Your subculture, Robert, Yeah, I think there's um, you know, I think what we might find exploring some of these subcultures, at least the ones that are not inherently toxic, because I think most of the ones we're going to hang out in, like you know, Sepack, the Conservative, a lot of them will be very toxic. Um, I think the ones that aren't, maybe a lot of the ones that are. I think we will see a lot of similar things because I do think, um, there's a lot of different like what we're seeing with the hugging and the touching and the kind of intimacy and not not just the intimacy between like friends, but just sort of the intimacy as an aspect of culture here. Um is kind of a reaction that I think a lot of different subcultures have to the impersonal um and like touch, averse emotion of verse connection, averse nature of the civilization that we all built for some reason. And we're all isolated. Yeah, we're all really connected, but also isolated and lowly. Yeah, so many of us go around without having been touched in a long time. It is way easier on a daily basis, especially when like I'm not hanging out at home, UM where I like know people. It's way easier for me to get into a long fight on Twitter than it is to get a hug. You know, that's just a reality. I think that's true for a lot of people listening to this. Hopefully not most of you, I hope, Yeah, but a lot of people. Um, and I think that one of the things that we learned about surviving the worst year ever, um, is that ship like that needs to be more common for everybody, more common and promoted and celebrated. And because also one thing that I think we touched on a lot is these sort of toxic subcultures and infiltrate these other areas. They're suffering from the same thing. And that's something that I think we like that we don't really recognize much because it's hard because like we're talking about Nazis, like we all like, it's all suffering from the same problems. It's just dealing with them in different ways, even the Nazis. You know, the reason that those communities draw people in is their ability to make up for holes exactly. You find these vulnerable people who feel disconnected, they don't have the group, they don't have that positive subculture, they don't have like a family or yeah, all these sort of things, uh, that we all suffer from in different ways and deal with in different ways, um. And so you have these people that prey on them, but then there is that connection that can be made to sort of bring people back and promoting that positivity and giving openness and space to people who need it. UM, I think can help in the de radicalization, but also in in getting through it. Yeah, more getting through One of the people we talked to, We talked to one person who did de radicalization work, and part of what she mentioned is like being helpful in that was trying to make connections with people that areas have shared interest and she had clearly done that with some people who are like to some extend down that kind of is more common called like the alt right or the far right timeline UM, and she chose to do that work and she had seen some failure and some success with it. We talked to somebody else who was like, you know, I've done I've tried a little bit of that from time to time, but I I you know, if I'm going to spend that energy, because it does take energy I'm to spend on like a member of like you know, marginalizing, it needs my effort and also deserves it more time and patience and effort. Like there's a lot that goes into it. And you know, I can't fault him on that for sure. Yeah, yeah, because he's right. I mean, it's it's exhausting work. Yeah, it's easy but you know, you do what you can. You can also read the room and read a situation and be like, this person is more likely to be receptive to right there. Yeah, there's some people that are even like early on where you're like, oh, you're like you're like a young kid and you're heading down this path, but come here and talking about too far. You haven't done anything you can't take back, exactly as opposed to like, okay, well now in this situation, I'm I would rather help this person and say funes then you know, yeah, any other thoughts. It just struck me that this is a show, like I said, a shining example of uh of how to survive the worst year ever? Like this, you find your space and you throw yourself in it and you protect it and you and you love it and you embrace it, and you you find the people in the group, the groups that allow you to be your authentic self and celebrate you who you are and each other. And um, it was touching. Everything was sweet, Everything was sweet and protective. It seemed yeah, yeah, protective like a like a like a big friendly womb with fourteen dollar cocktails, which really you know, coming from Los Angeles is and yeah, but not great. I'm not gonna not gonna say it's great, but it was people were smuggling it or just walking in with alcohol too. So just the aspect of all this sort of stuff and realize like, oh, this is something they've learned over time because it is a very unique culture and fandom. Let's face, we were all making fun of them for years and they've been dealing with like Nazis for years and years, and if sort of honed that skill a little bit. And I think there's there's just a lot to learn. I think from from the love the we they're they're weird. Love, They're weird but wholesome and endearing and thoroughly admirable love. Yeah, it's what Yeah? What what do you said? One of the people we talked strange were strange together. Yeah. I like that line closing out, Um, he's gonna get first suits. What do you What do you think your first sona would be if you had a gun to your head? Tiger? Now, I was also going to say monkey, maybe bunny, Bunny, you've been doing funny stuff that tail. I think a husky dog. Yeah, I'm getting you guys for Christmas. Five thousand dollar fur suits. It's not cheap, guys, just make no, no, they're incredibly expensive. They're like used cars. Some some what some take like years to make it seems like they do. Yeah, um cool. Well this has been video diary to our last video diary, the worst journal ever, not a video podcast. But they're different putting people Wait are you are you fucking telling me that people can't see the things I put out? So sorry, this has been such a long journey of disappointment when we told my gestures are such a critical part of everything. That's why, that's why I really enjoy way like guessing on behind the bastards, but like listening to him, like what's he doing with his hands? And just I'm flipping everyone off constantly. It's nothing but middle fingers is sitting here playing with a knife. That he's not he's brandishing. Brandishing is such a strong, very strong right. You're right, you're right. I'm gently gesturings, gesticulating with a knife. And you can't throw anything here, and I'm not saying I'm not. I have not thrown anything except for the burning water fire that I think that was more of a drop, that was more I flung it at I was trying aiming for the door. It was very hot for doing more of these yeah, yeah, you know what not this weekend. I'm tired of ye. I'm just gonna say, see a bag. I also agree with you completely Everything so dumb and it's not again I tread Daniel Worst Year Ever is a production of I Heart Radio. 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