What's up, ladies, It's your girl, Kaylajana Key here, and can we just talk for a second about how fast this month is flying by?

What's up, ladies, It's your girl, Kaylajana Key here, and can we just talk for a second about how fast this month is flying by?

Like legit?

Like legit?

I feel like I blinked and we're already halfway through it is anybody else just trying to catch their breath and keep up with everything?

I feel like I blinked and we're already halfway through it is anybody else just trying to catch their breath and keep up with everything?

Because same says same?

Because same says same?

But listen, we're here now, and I'm so glad you're tuning in.

But listen, we're here now, and I'm so glad you're tuning in.

How's your week going.

How's your week going.

I hope you've been taking care of yourself, staying hydrated and maybe even finding a little time to rest.

I hope you've been taking care of yourself, staying hydrated and maybe even finding a little time to rest.

Now.

Now.

I don't know about y'all, but this season has been all about balance for me, trying to hold it all together while still making time for the things that matter. And one of my priorities right now are my two teenagers. I have assumed to be sixteen and fourteen year old at home, and as I gain knowledge in wisdom, it is super important to me to deposit those gems into them in real time. But I know you didn't just come here to hear about my priorities. We've got something real good for you today. You're about to hear from our co ed panel from the Woman EVA Conference twenty twenty four and listen, this group came through with all the gems. We've got Kyle Campbell, Kobe Campbell, Isaiah Roberts, George C. Wright, Morgan Debond and it's all moderated by our girl Pastor, Stephanie E. K Okafher and Baby. They are dropping some serious gems. So, whether you're chilling at home, on your way to work or squeezing this in between your busy day, you're about to be encouraged and challenged to surrender.

I don't know about y'all, but this season has been all about balance for me, trying to hold it all together while still making time for the things that matter. And one of my priorities right now are my two teenagers. I have assumed to be sixteen and fourteen year old at home, and as I gain knowledge in wisdom, it is super important to me to deposit those gems into them in real time. But I know you didn't just come here to hear about my priorities. We've got something real good for you today. You're about to hear from our co ed panel from the Woman EVA Conference twenty twenty four and listen, this group came through with all the gems. We've got Kyle Campbell, Kobe Campbell, Isaiah Roberts, George C. Wright, Morgan Debond and it's all moderated by our girl Pastor, Stephanie E. K Okafher and Baby. They are dropping some serious gems. So, whether you're chilling at home, on your way to work or squeezing this in between your busy day, you're about to be encouraged and challenged to surrender.

The things that have been weighing you down.

The things that have been weighing you down.

So let's get into it.

So let's get into it.

Women, evo, it is such a pleasure to be back with you all, and today we are going to have such a powerful, co ed conversation. Now we've been talking a little bit in the back and you all are in for a tree. Now we're going to be speaking about faith and surrender and some of the complexities that shows up in men and in women.

Women, evo, it is such a pleasure to be back with you all, and today we are going to have such a powerful, co ed conversation. Now we've been talking a little bit in the back and you all are in for a tree. Now we're going to be speaking about faith and surrender and some of the complexities that shows up in men and in women.

And so let's get right into it. So I'm gonna start up with a question.

And so let's get right into it. So I'm gonna start up with a question.

It's open and anyone can just dive right in right now. Faith often brings us to this place where we have to surrender control, fear, and even the need for certainty. What has that looked like in your life, right, how has your ability to surrender shaped your relationship with God but also shaped your lives?

It's open and anyone can just dive right in right now. Faith often brings us to this place where we have to surrender control, fear, and even the need for certainty. What has that looked like in your life, right, how has your ability to surrender shaped your relationship with God but also shaped your lives?

You're looking at me, So I was sorry. You know, I think that I had an idea of what would satisfy me in life, and I feel like I got a lot of the things I thought would satisfy me early. And I think that was God's plan really on purpose, because I realized this on satisfy me, and surrendering meant there is someone God who knows what will satisfy me more than I know that. I'm still discovering myself through the lens of Christ, and so I think surrendering meant saying, I am learning who I am through God instead of through what I feel things since will satisfy me.

You're looking at me, So I was sorry. You know, I think that I had an idea of what would satisfy me in life, and I feel like I got a lot of the things I thought would satisfy me early. And I think that was God's plan really on purpose, because I realized this on satisfy me, and surrendering meant there is someone God who knows what will satisfy me more than I know that. I'm still discovering myself through the lens of Christ, and so I think surrendering meant saying, I am learning who I am through God instead of through what I feel things since will satisfy me.

Yeah, and oh wait, could you dig into that?

Yeah, and oh wait, could you dig into that?

Because I think there's a beauty when you give language too the things that you thought were satisfying you, Because when you give language to it, there are people that identify with That's what I'm pursuing right now.

Because I think there's a beauty when you give language too the things that you thought were satisfying you, Because when you give language to it, there are people that identify with That's what I'm pursuing right now.

And so if you could just dig into that a little.

And so if you could just dig into that a little.

Yeah, it's okay, Okay, she threw the ball, y'all. Now you threw the ball and if I take my time, don't judge me. Okay, you know I want to share a little bit of my personal testimony. If you've read my book, you know this because it starts page one. But in twenty thirteen, in college, I was deeply suicidal and tried to take my life. I had a friend Brent Campbell, who is the twin brother of my current husband Kyle, and man, there was a moment where I felt like God, is life just a cycle of looking for affirmation, getting it and then feeling like it's not enough and feeling like why am I here? I remember thinking that, like, why am I here? No one wants me here, No one loves me, no one cares about me. And I say this with sensitivity. I didn't want to die because I hated my life. I didn't I wanted to go because I was tired. And I think that there are a lot of women in this room who are like tired, Like you don't want to hurt yourself, but you're like God, if I don't wake up in the morning, I'll be all right, Like God, if something happened, if I get in a car crash today, that wouldn't be so bad. I think Suicidality can be so sneaky and can be so insidious, and can lead you to a place where you kind of feel like I'm slowly putting down the life and the purpose that God has for me, and many of us don't even know that we had that life and we had that purpose. And texted my rather I went out partying. Sorry, y'all, I'm getting real here. I went out partying. I had some drinks, I popped some pills, and I was like, I'm going to sleep. I heard that if you take this combination, you could just go to sleep and not wake up, So I'm okay with that. I wrote my twin sister a letter. I wrote my roommate's a letter. I said, sorry, y'all, y'all gonna I'm sorry what you're gonna have to find?

Yeah, it's okay, Okay, she threw the ball, y'all. Now you threw the ball and if I take my time, don't judge me. Okay, you know I want to share a little bit of my personal testimony. If you've read my book, you know this because it starts page one. But in twenty thirteen, in college, I was deeply suicidal and tried to take my life. I had a friend Brent Campbell, who is the twin brother of my current husband Kyle, and man, there was a moment where I felt like God, is life just a cycle of looking for affirmation, getting it and then feeling like it's not enough and feeling like why am I here? I remember thinking that, like, why am I here? No one wants me here, No one loves me, no one cares about me. And I say this with sensitivity. I didn't want to die because I hated my life. I didn't I wanted to go because I was tired. And I think that there are a lot of women in this room who are like tired, Like you don't want to hurt yourself, but you're like God, if I don't wake up in the morning, I'll be all right, Like God, if something happened, if I get in a car crash today, that wouldn't be so bad. I think Suicidality can be so sneaky and can be so insidious, and can lead you to a place where you kind of feel like I'm slowly putting down the life and the purpose that God has for me, and many of us don't even know that we had that life and we had that purpose. And texted my rather I went out partying. Sorry, y'all, I'm getting real here. I went out partying. I had some drinks, I popped some pills, and I was like, I'm going to sleep. I heard that if you take this combination, you could just go to sleep and not wake up, So I'm okay with that. I wrote my twin sister a letter. I wrote my roommate's a letter. I said, sorry, y'all, y'all gonna I'm sorry what you're gonna have to find?

And I laid my head down. I laid my head down.

And I laid my head down. I laid my head down.

And my phone rang and it was Brent, and Brent said, hey, I was praying for you, and the Lord told me.

And my phone rang and it was Brent, and Brent said, hey, I was praying for you, and the Lord told me.

The Lord told me to tell you.

The Lord told me to tell you.

That I know that you drank that vodka and I know you took those pills, and he said, don't go to sleep, because he has a purpose for your life. And you know what's crazy is when I read that text, I didn't feel the relief that you probably think I felt. I felt embarrassed that someone knew I wanted to die. That was the first thing I felt. I felt this hope of like, ooh, there's someone out there and he's watching me. God is real. But then I also felt this embarrassment. It's like, oh, my God, someone knows. I felt this level of pain, and so I put my phone under my pillow and I laid back down. How many of us have been shown God's grace and refused it. God showed up and we were like, no, thank you. And I laid back down and Brent texted me again. He said, I said, don't go to sleep. I ignored it again, and then I turned my phone off and I laid it down under my pillow again. But then my phone rang, and I just told you, I turned my phone off, and then I tried to turn it off again and it wouldn't turn off. And he texted me throughout the entire night. And I went to church with him that morning, and I ain't really know much about God in this way. I just remember walking in and just laying on the floor and saying, God, I surrender. I didn't even know what I was surrendering fully too, but I knew what I was deciding to put down. I didn't know what I was picking up, but I knew what I was deciding to put down. And I say this because this talks to the second level of surrender. That first week of being a Christian, Oh, it was the greatest high my life.

That I know that you drank that vodka and I know you took those pills, and he said, don't go to sleep, because he has a purpose for your life. And you know what's crazy is when I read that text, I didn't feel the relief that you probably think I felt. I felt embarrassed that someone knew I wanted to die. That was the first thing I felt. I felt this hope of like, ooh, there's someone out there and he's watching me. God is real. But then I also felt this embarrassment. It's like, oh, my God, someone knows. I felt this level of pain, and so I put my phone under my pillow and I laid back down. How many of us have been shown God's grace and refused it. God showed up and we were like, no, thank you. And I laid back down and Brent texted me again. He said, I said, don't go to sleep. I ignored it again, and then I turned my phone off and I laid it down under my pillow again. But then my phone rang, and I just told you, I turned my phone off, and then I tried to turn it off again and it wouldn't turn off. And he texted me throughout the entire night. And I went to church with him that morning, and I ain't really know much about God in this way. I just remember walking in and just laying on the floor and saying, God, I surrender. I didn't even know what I was surrendering fully too, but I knew what I was deciding to put down. I didn't know what I was picking up, but I knew what I was deciding to put down. And I say this because this talks to the second level of surrender. That first week of being a Christian, Oh, it was the greatest high my life.

I was like, Jesus loves you. He's real, He's real.

I was like, Jesus loves you. He's real, He's real.

Like I, Oh, my God snatched me out of my depression with that miracle. But I'll tell you what, Like a week later, I was depressed again and no one could make sense of it. I was depressed and I went to church and people were like, well, you're not praying enough, Well you're not fastin enough. What have you been skipping Bible study? Or are you sure there's not something you need to surrender? And I felt like I was doing everything and I was like, God, why did you save me just to drop me back off in this pit? And I just want to say to somebody that God saves you with a miracle to show the heart of who he is, but he restores you with the process. So if the feeling goes away for a moment. It's God giving you a glimpse of what he's gonna give you an eternal access to. But God wanted me to go through that process because if he would have just healed me in the morning the moment, I would have never healed my trauma because He let me be sad, because he wanted me to get curious about why this sadness was so deep and why it was so persistent, and why it wouldn't let go of me. Because there were things that I needed to go back to address. And God wants us to go back to address those things so that when we get the restoration of those things, we can say God restored that some of us got money and didn't even have knowledge that something was taken from us first. But God's taking you back to the pain so he can show you what he's restoring in you. And so that's how I got my introduction to trauma. Sorry, girl, and everything he said that I don't even.

Like I, Oh, my God snatched me out of my depression with that miracle. But I'll tell you what, Like a week later, I was depressed again and no one could make sense of it. I was depressed and I went to church and people were like, well, you're not praying enough, Well you're not fastin enough. What have you been skipping Bible study? Or are you sure there's not something you need to surrender? And I felt like I was doing everything and I was like, God, why did you save me just to drop me back off in this pit? And I just want to say to somebody that God saves you with a miracle to show the heart of who he is, but he restores you with the process. So if the feeling goes away for a moment. It's God giving you a glimpse of what he's gonna give you an eternal access to. But God wanted me to go through that process because if he would have just healed me in the morning the moment, I would have never healed my trauma because He let me be sad, because he wanted me to get curious about why this sadness was so deep and why it was so persistent, and why it wouldn't let go of me. Because there were things that I needed to go back to address. And God wants us to go back to address those things so that when we get the restoration of those things, we can say God restored that some of us got money and didn't even have knowledge that something was taken from us first. But God's taking you back to the pain so he can show you what he's restoring in you. And so that's how I got my introduction to trauma. Sorry, girl, and everything he said that I don't even.

About you.

About you.

Yes, one thing is when we talked about how s yeah, that voice of shoeside is yes. Many times there are people in this room and even just by a show of courage, if you feel okay with it that.

Yes, one thing is when we talked about how s yeah, that voice of shoeside is yes. Many times there are people in this room and even just by a show of courage, if you feel okay with it that.

Have ever struggled with shoe side ideation.

Have ever struggled with shoe side ideation.

All around the room because it's so sneaky. It makes you feel as though it's not like you want to harm yourself. But it's what you said, I'm tired. I don't see what else is there for me. And that is the deceptive voice of the enemy. Because that moment was pregnant with this that there are people that God wanted to speak to through your testimony. You see, I want you, guys to really feel the weight of her story because there are times that God may not speak to you directly because He spoke to you.

All around the room because it's so sneaky. It makes you feel as though it's not like you want to harm yourself. But it's what you said, I'm tired. I don't see what else is there for me. And that is the deceptive voice of the enemy. Because that moment was pregnant with this that there are people that God wanted to speak to through your testimony. You see, I want you, guys to really feel the weight of her story because there are times that God may not speak to you directly because He spoke to you.

Through someone's story.

Through someone's story.

And in this moment, your testimony is a reminder for the women who feel as though I'm tired. God, I'm not trying to harm myself. I'm just tired. It is a lie from the pit of hell, and throughout the conference, it is the reckless love of God that is pursuing after you, and you have to embrace it. And just like what you went through a few days later depressed, when you leave the conference, you might experience some sadness. Again, it doesn't mean that what you received here wasn't right or didn't take fruit in your It didn't take root in your heart. But God wants to deal with the issue at its roots.

And in this moment, your testimony is a reminder for the women who feel as though I'm tired. God, I'm not trying to harm myself. I'm just tired. It is a lie from the pit of hell, and throughout the conference, it is the reckless love of God that is pursuing after you, and you have to embrace it. And just like what you went through a few days later depressed, when you leave the conference, you might experience some sadness. Again, it doesn't mean that what you received here wasn't right or didn't take fruit in your It didn't take root in your heart. But God wants to deal with the issue at its roots.

That is powerful.

That is powerful.

That is powerful, that's real, that's real, and that's what I get being here. You know, Okay, now we have a man's voice, Glory to God in the midst of all of this. But but you know what I was I was thinking, you know, when you asked that question, what do you have to surrender? I must have been I gotta be real honest with you. I didn't know I had to surrender to God the things that He has so set me up for until I got busy doing this thing called loving Him and serving Him and doing ministry because I was raising the church, born in church. I think when my mama had me, I think she had me at the altar, and I think I came out speaking in times. I don't know, But what I do know is all I'm knowing is Church. And so my journey has been given to Him based on the relationship that my mom and dad had with the Lord, which then became a part of my life. So it took a little bit of time for me to surrender to God because I didn't know what I had to surrender to him until I started to having I started to have these.

That is powerful, that's real, that's real, and that's what I get being here. You know, Okay, now we have a man's voice, Glory to God in the midst of all of this. But but you know what I was I was thinking, you know, when you asked that question, what do you have to surrender? I must have been I gotta be real honest with you. I didn't know I had to surrender to God the things that He has so set me up for until I got busy doing this thing called loving Him and serving Him and doing ministry because I was raising the church, born in church. I think when my mama had me, I think she had me at the altar, and I think I came out speaking in times. I don't know, But what I do know is all I'm knowing is Church. And so my journey has been given to Him based on the relationship that my mom and dad had with the Lord, which then became a part of my life. So it took a little bit of time for me to surrender to God because I didn't know what I had to surrender to him until I started to having I started to have these.

Personal encounters with Him.

Personal encounters with Him.

And it was from the personal encounters that I had with Him that I discovered what it was that I had to surrender to him. And from that came my purpose for life, for living, for doing what I do, and it so made It makes more sense now to me, and it has ever meant now because of my journey, and I've had to surrender moments after moments after moment moments based on my my simple relationships with God, and now where I'm at now makes more sense. But I had to I had to learn what I had to surrender down through the years, and it took me a minute to discover that the surrender that I have to give to the Lord was based on the purpose that He had designed for my life.

And it was from the personal encounters that I had with Him that I discovered what it was that I had to surrender to him. And from that came my purpose for life, for living, for doing what I do, and it so made It makes more sense now to me, and it has ever meant now because of my journey, and I've had to surrender moments after moments after moment moments based on my my simple relationships with God, and now where I'm at now makes more sense. But I had to I had to learn what I had to surrender down through the years, and it took me a minute to discover that the surrender that I have to give to the Lord was based on the purpose that He had designed for my life.

That's beautiful, and you're a bishop.

That's beautiful, and you're a bishop.

Yeah, that's what they're saying.

Yeah, that's what they're saying.

Now.

Now.

What is fascinating about this is you said you came out the world speaking of time, right, But people think that, oh, that's a natural thing.

What is fascinating about this is you said you came out the world speaking of time, right, But people think that, oh, that's a natural thing.

You were raised in the.

You were raised in the.

Church, so it's natural that you are is still a part of the church. But you had to have a personal encounter for God with God for yourself. Can you speak to what that encounter revealed to you?

Church, so it's natural that you are is still a part of the church. But you had to have a personal encounter for God with God for yourself. Can you speak to what that encounter revealed to you?

What was the lie it showed up?

What was the lie it showed up?

You know?

You know?

For me, my mom told me that when she was carrying me, I was telling when she was carrying me that she felt the annoying of the Holy Spirit in her belly. While I was there, and I heard that story, I heed, I saw it over and over or again. But it wasn't until God set me up to be in the midst of young people who would come and serve the Lord. But we weren't sure if we really.

For me, my mom told me that when she was carrying me, I was telling when she was carrying me that she felt the annoying of the Holy Spirit in her belly. While I was there, and I heard that story, I heed, I saw it over and over or again. But it wasn't until God set me up to be in the midst of young people who would come and serve the Lord. But we weren't sure if we really.

Love the Lord.

Love the Lord.

So it was it was just gathering of young people and the fellowshiping with young people. But it was until there was revival services where we had to face the question do you know Jesus? And when we were at revivals, and when I was at revivals, and when I had to answer that question whether I knew Jesus even though I was in the church all my life, brought up in the church, but I had to come to a place where I had to answer the question, but do you know Jesus?

So it was it was just gathering of young people and the fellowshiping with young people. But it was until there was revival services where we had to face the question do you know Jesus? And when we were at revivals, and when I was at revivals, and when I had to answer that question whether I knew Jesus even though I was in the church all my life, brought up in the church, but I had to come to a place where I had to answer the question, but do you know Jesus?

Do you have a relationship with Him?

Do you have a relationship with Him?

And it was in that moment that where I had to answer the question and I had to answer the question from a place that the enemy had tried to keep me in thinking that I did not have to do that because I was already in the right atmosphere in church. So it's like you already saved, so why you got to be saved? So I had to come to grips with the fact that I needed to answer the question. After a few revivals, I had to say, well, wait a minute, I'm not sure I love him like I should. I'm not sure I'm serving him like goudis. I'm not sure. So I had to make that confession. I confess the Lord Jesus Christ. And it was after those moments. And I say after those almost because I didn't just.

And it was in that moment that where I had to answer the question and I had to answer the question from a place that the enemy had tried to keep me in thinking that I did not have to do that because I was already in the right atmosphere in church. So it's like you already saved, so why you got to be saved? So I had to come to grips with the fact that I needed to answer the question. After a few revivals, I had to say, well, wait a minute, I'm not sure I love him like I should. I'm not sure I'm serving him like goudis. I'm not sure. So I had to make that confession. I confess the Lord Jesus Christ. And it was after those moments. And I say after those almost because I didn't just.

Do it once. I do it a couple of times.

Do it once. I do it a couple of times.

But that's when I figured out that this is where God wanted me to be, this is what he wanted me to do, And it made sense because I surrendered myself to him. And it wasn't a surrender based on church being present. It wasn't surrender based on my friends with me in church. It was me personally recognizing and seeing the Lord for myself.

But that's when I figured out that this is where God wanted me to be, this is what he wanted me to do, And it made sense because I surrendered myself to him. And it wasn't a surrender based on church being present. It wasn't surrender based on my friends with me in church. It was me personally recognizing and seeing the Lord for myself.

For myself, I'll go.

For myself, I'll go.

I would say that God, if you live long enough, you're gonna have to surrender something new every other week. But I think one of the pivotal moments for me and my journey I'm surrender was surrendering shame, specifically in my context. I'm in corporate America. Like, I'm not on social media and nothing like that. Really, I'm just I'm My claim to fame is being married to her. But I had I had this context. I went into this organization. I was the only black person they'd ever hired. I was the first one they hired. There was a lot of racism, there were a lot of barriers, and it was really bad, but we fast forward. I got promoted eight times in five years. I broke every record and every role I ever had. Yeah, and that's the point right there, right, everybody's clapping, And I was twenty three, flying on a private jet leading a team of lenders doing all this great stuff. I remember, I was twenty six. I got my first like C level role. I got a CFO job, And the day after I got it, I was so depressed. I mean I was close to suicide. I remember grabbing my belt and beginning.

I would say that God, if you live long enough, you're gonna have to surrender something new every other week. But I think one of the pivotal moments for me and my journey I'm surrender was surrendering shame, specifically in my context. I'm in corporate America. Like, I'm not on social media and nothing like that. Really, I'm just I'm My claim to fame is being married to her. But I had I had this context. I went into this organization. I was the only black person they'd ever hired. I was the first one they hired. There was a lot of racism, there were a lot of barriers, and it was really bad, but we fast forward. I got promoted eight times in five years. I broke every record and every role I ever had. Yeah, and that's the point right there, right, everybody's clapping, And I was twenty three, flying on a private jet leading a team of lenders doing all this great stuff. I remember, I was twenty six. I got my first like C level role. I got a CFO job, And the day after I got it, I was so depressed. I mean I was close to suicide. I remember grabbing my belt and beginning.

To wrap it around my neck. I was so down.

To wrap it around my neck. I was so down.

And my wife because she's her she knew something was going on, and she's like, baby, what's wrong? And I said, man, I'm a CFO at twenty six and I'm so embarrassed because I should have done it by twenty five. And she looked at me and she said, baby, i've you know now, I've been seeing things and I've been trying to let you figure it out.

And my wife because she's her she knew something was going on, and she's like, baby, what's wrong? And I said, man, I'm a CFO at twenty six and I'm so embarrassed because I should have done it by twenty five. And she looked at me and she said, baby, i've you know now, I've been seeing things and I've been trying to let you figure it out.

You're not okay.

You're not okay.

And I can remember praying and I heard the Lord say to me, Kyle, if your shame could free you, wouldn't it have done it by now?

And I can remember praying and I heard the Lord say to me, Kyle, if your shame could free you, wouldn't it have done it by now?

Like if it could rescue.

Like if it could rescue.

You, you've been so low, Like wouldn't couldn't it have happened by now?

You, you've been so low, Like wouldn't couldn't it have happened by now?

Like?

Like?

Clearly your shame is not enough to save you. And so I had to replace my shame about what I felt was broken about me with radical vulnerability and my wife, thank God for her. But I'm an active recovery for a porn addiction. I thought I had a normal childhood, but I was molested and tortured.

Clearly your shame is not enough to save you. And so I had to replace my shame about what I felt was broken about me with radical vulnerability and my wife, thank God for her. But I'm an active recovery for a porn addiction. I thought I had a normal childhood, but I was molested and tortured.

I didn't even tell people I was tortured.

I didn't even tell people I was tortured.

I'd told people that I had a bully, but my bully is in jail for life for quadru bahamicide.

I'd told people that I had a bully, but my bully is in jail for life for quadru bahamicide.

At fourteen, most of y'all's aren't right.

At fourteen, most of y'all's aren't right.

And so he would like fireworks in my head. He would dip my hand into fire ant piles and hold me down scream, and I thought that was normal. And so there was so much of my context and my story that I'd compartmentalized, and in the moment, I had all these successes, but inside I was ashamed and it didn't make sense because I'd compartmentalized, my story wasn't connected. So I had all of this anger and all this shame and all this bitterness at my successes and how strong I looked. But what I remembered but didn't want to remember, was how weak I once was. And every time I climbed a new mountain, I thought I would stand there and I would finally feel strong, and it never happened, and I started running out of mountains, and I'm like, Lord, okay, So clearly the mountain isn't where I'm going to feel strong, and so God took me back to the valleys.

And so he would like fireworks in my head. He would dip my hand into fire ant piles and hold me down scream, and I thought that was normal. And so there was so much of my context and my story that I'd compartmentalized, and in the moment, I had all these successes, but inside I was ashamed and it didn't make sense because I'd compartmentalized, my story wasn't connected. So I had all of this anger and all this shame and all this bitterness at my successes and how strong I looked. But what I remembered but didn't want to remember, was how weak I once was. And every time I climbed a new mountain, I thought I would stand there and I would finally feel strong, and it never happened, and I started running out of mountains, and I'm like, Lord, okay, So clearly the mountain isn't where I'm going to feel strong, and so God took me back to the valleys.

And so, yeah, it's a long answer to a short question.

And so, yeah, it's a long answer to a short question.

To that, because Kyle, I think, first of all, when we often hear sexual molestation, there is a bias we have when we think women and we're not immediately thinking the impact of that in a man's life. Now, even with that and just what you're walking through even till this day, what did surrender even look like in your marriage? Bringing that like, you know, bringing those conversations and bringing that vulnerability into the marriage.

To that, because Kyle, I think, first of all, when we often hear sexual molestation, there is a bias we have when we think women and we're not immediately thinking the impact of that in a man's life. Now, even with that and just what you're walking through even till this day, what did surrender even look like in your marriage? Bringing that like, you know, bringing those conversations and bringing that vulnerability into the marriage.

What did that look like?

What did that look like?

Because I think it's so powerful when women begin to understand men better because there is this idea of what it's like. The it's almost this flawed concept right of what men should be like, not knowing that they have stories and they're also dealing with brokenness and pain the way we're processing that. And so how did how was it in marriage for you bringing your vulnerability to the table and surrendering the idea, idea of what it should look like versus what it was.

Because I think it's so powerful when women begin to understand men better because there is this idea of what it's like. The it's almost this flawed concept right of what men should be like, not knowing that they have stories and they're also dealing with brokenness and pain the way we're processing that. And so how did how was it in marriage for you bringing your vulnerability to the table and surrendering the idea, idea of what it should look like versus what it was.

It was hard.

It was hard.

It was really hard, even with a wife who is a therapist and incredible. There was so much about our relationship that was built around our mutual trauma. So there was space that I wasn't taking up in our relationship because I wasn't addressing any of my story. So in the real estate of our relationship, my wife had eighty percent of the emotional real estate because I didn't have any problems, I didn't have any feelings, I didn't have any bad days. How was work today? Work today was fine? It wasn't fine, but you know every day. And so she's sharing and she's pouring in and I'm not. And then I have to start to understand my own story and start to share it and talk about it. And there was a disconnect because all the sudden we're talking about my feelings, and all of a sudden, I'm saying, like, hey, that really hurt my feelings, or I don't like when you say that to me, or I didn't like that or And a lot of our relationship was built on this is her space that I visit, and then it had to shift to something that we shared together. And that was hard. It took a lot of mutual humility. It also took great community. It took men in my life who I could share with, who would hear me. Vent I can hear my brother's voice right now. All right, bro, you got off your chest. The most important question we can answer right now is how to how do you die for your wife today? Because you don't get to lead just in cutting the line right, leadership means that you got to lead in saying sorry.

It was really hard, even with a wife who is a therapist and incredible. There was so much about our relationship that was built around our mutual trauma. So there was space that I wasn't taking up in our relationship because I wasn't addressing any of my story. So in the real estate of our relationship, my wife had eighty percent of the emotional real estate because I didn't have any problems, I didn't have any feelings, I didn't have any bad days. How was work today? Work today was fine? It wasn't fine, but you know every day. And so she's sharing and she's pouring in and I'm not. And then I have to start to understand my own story and start to share it and talk about it. And there was a disconnect because all the sudden we're talking about my feelings, and all of a sudden, I'm saying, like, hey, that really hurt my feelings, or I don't like when you say that to me, or I didn't like that or And a lot of our relationship was built on this is her space that I visit, and then it had to shift to something that we shared together. And that was hard. It took a lot of mutual humility. It also took great community. It took men in my life who I could share with, who would hear me. Vent I can hear my brother's voice right now. All right, bro, you got off your chest. The most important question we can answer right now is how to how do you die for your wife today? Because you don't get to lead just in cutting the line right, leadership means that you got to lead in saying sorry.

You got to.

You got to.

Lead and going back and repenting it means you got to lead and find something to repent for. Because sometimes I'm like, I didn't do nothing wrong. Well, then repent for that. Repent for the idea that you don't think you did nothing wrong. But it was really hard, and I know it was hard on her because as my story became revealed, we recognized that God had put us together. And in the beginning of it, it was almost like, I don't know if there was a worse person in the universe for me to have married. It felt like God put me with the exact opposite of what I needed. And there was this tension coming up because I had smoothed over all my rough edges.

Lead and going back and repenting it means you got to lead and find something to repent for. Because sometimes I'm like, I didn't do nothing wrong. Well, then repent for that. Repent for the idea that you don't think you did nothing wrong. But it was really hard, and I know it was hard on her because as my story became revealed, we recognized that God had put us together. And in the beginning of it, it was almost like, I don't know if there was a worse person in the universe for me to have married. It felt like God put me with the exact opposite of what I needed. And there was this tension coming up because I had smoothed over all my rough edges.

Because I don't have any issues.

Because I don't have any issues.

My rough edges came up and they're poking right into her wounds. And so now it's like, well, we're not even supposed to be together. This new version of you and this new version of me, we don't fit. And so the Lord had to come and be like, well, nor your marriage is for healing. The happiness will come, but your marriage is for healing. I'm trying to do something and you need to hear what she has to say.

My rough edges came up and they're poking right into her wounds. And so now it's like, well, we're not even supposed to be together. This new version of you and this new version of me, we don't fit. And so the Lord had to come and be like, well, nor your marriage is for healing. The happiness will come, but your marriage is for healing. I'm trying to do something and you need to hear what she has to say.

We're going to circle back on that.

We're going to circle back on that.

But also even in your pursuit right of the Mountain, I'm so intrigued by Morgan because of your background. What that also looked like for you when it comes to surrender.

But also even in your pursuit right of the Mountain, I'm so intrigued by Morgan because of your background. What that also looked like for you when it comes to surrender.

Yeah, I was thinking about this as I was listening to everyone's story. For me, I started my company at twenty four and raised venture funding twelve million dollars and was one of very few black women in the country to do that, and I was miserable. There were days that I could not get out of bed. I prayed for thirty forty five minutes a day in the morning to just get out of bed and get into the office. And I had Externally it looked like I had everything together. We were winning awards, we were closing big deals. I had one hundred employees to floors in an office, and I was so unhappy. And it wasn't until I was able to truly slow down. COVID I think saved my life in terms of its direction, because it allowed me time to slow down. I wasn't on a plane two three times a week. I wasn't at an event every night, I was actually able to be quiet with myself, and I hadn't been quiet, I don't think ever in my life. I've always been a high achiever, always doing the next thing that was what was expected of me. And I moved to the beach. I left my downtown La apartment. I moved to the beach. I was the only black girl in that entire beach. Every day I went on log walks in the morning. I listened to Sarah Jakes Roberts in my ear and on YouTube, and I was in prayer with myself about what am I doing and how do I take this blessing of the power of our business that we have built and renegotiate with myself and with God my own boundaries because I had given everything to my company. And I called up my two girlfriends, Melissa Butler from the Lip Bar and one of my good friends, Simon and White, and said, let's go to Costa Rica. I've never been to Costa Rica, but it looked like a place full of peace. So I went to Costa Rica and I had never taken a vacation, and six years working as entrepreneur, there was no such thing as days off. And I took thirty days off, and I said, I'm going to do whatever I want for thirty days, and I'm going to sit with myself for thirty days, and I'm going to be here in nature.

Yeah, I was thinking about this as I was listening to everyone's story. For me, I started my company at twenty four and raised venture funding twelve million dollars and was one of very few black women in the country to do that, and I was miserable. There were days that I could not get out of bed. I prayed for thirty forty five minutes a day in the morning to just get out of bed and get into the office. And I had Externally it looked like I had everything together. We were winning awards, we were closing big deals. I had one hundred employees to floors in an office, and I was so unhappy. And it wasn't until I was able to truly slow down. COVID I think saved my life in terms of its direction, because it allowed me time to slow down. I wasn't on a plane two three times a week. I wasn't at an event every night, I was actually able to be quiet with myself, and I hadn't been quiet, I don't think ever in my life. I've always been a high achiever, always doing the next thing that was what was expected of me. And I moved to the beach. I left my downtown La apartment. I moved to the beach. I was the only black girl in that entire beach. Every day I went on log walks in the morning. I listened to Sarah Jakes Roberts in my ear and on YouTube, and I was in prayer with myself about what am I doing and how do I take this blessing of the power of our business that we have built and renegotiate with myself and with God my own boundaries because I had given everything to my company. And I called up my two girlfriends, Melissa Butler from the Lip Bar and one of my good friends, Simon and White, and said, let's go to Costa Rica. I've never been to Costa Rica, but it looked like a place full of peace. So I went to Costa Rica and I had never taken a vacation, and six years working as entrepreneur, there was no such thing as days off. And I took thirty days off, and I said, I'm going to do whatever I want for thirty days, and I'm going to sit with myself for thirty days, and I'm going to be here in nature.

You know, Costa Rica.

You know, Costa Rica.

It's the rainforest, it's beautiful, everything's organic. You're plucking, you know, literal pineapples, and the fishman is coming.

It's the rainforest, it's beautiful, everything's organic. You're plucking, you know, literal pineapples, and the fishman is coming.

You pick out the fish.

You pick out the fish.

So I was just sitting one with myself and with nature. And that is truly when God said you gotta go. If you stay in Los Angeles, you are not gonna make it. This journey is very long. My plan for you is lifelong. And I don't think I thought about all of those milestones. What happens after? I mean, similar to yous like, okay, well I did it. I'm twenty nine and I already did it at all. He was like, no, you haven't. And so I broke my lease and I moved in with my parents. I moved to Nashville, Tennessee, and everyone thought I lost my mind. I lived in my parents' house for six months and I tried to recenter myself and ground myself and family and said, what else am I building in my life? I saved up and I bought a house five minutes away from my parents. And I bought a house that I went to each room and I sat, and I prayed and had a vision of I want this to be a room where me and my husband sit and watch a movie. I want this to be a room where I had no boyfriend. By the way, to be clear, I want this to be a room where I sit and I paint, and I paint all day every day, and I get lost. I was envisioning a world outside of just my work, and it took me a few years. But through breaking through the own rules that I had imposed on myself and I felt like society had imposed on me, and truly surrendering to what he had for me, I took myself off the rat race, and I said, it's gonna work itself off.

So I was just sitting one with myself and with nature. And that is truly when God said you gotta go. If you stay in Los Angeles, you are not gonna make it. This journey is very long. My plan for you is lifelong. And I don't think I thought about all of those milestones. What happens after? I mean, similar to yous like, okay, well I did it. I'm twenty nine and I already did it at all. He was like, no, you haven't. And so I broke my lease and I moved in with my parents. I moved to Nashville, Tennessee, and everyone thought I lost my mind. I lived in my parents' house for six months and I tried to recenter myself and ground myself and family and said, what else am I building in my life? I saved up and I bought a house five minutes away from my parents. And I bought a house that I went to each room and I sat, and I prayed and had a vision of I want this to be a room where me and my husband sit and watch a movie. I want this to be a room where I had no boyfriend. By the way, to be clear, I want this to be a room where I sit and I paint, and I paint all day every day, and I get lost. I was envisioning a world outside of just my work, and it took me a few years. But through breaking through the own rules that I had imposed on myself and I felt like society had imposed on me, and truly surrendering to what he had for me, I took myself off the rat race, and I said, it's gonna work itself off.

I have faith, and.

I have faith, and.

I know that it doesn't look conventional, but I have to believe that there is something more for me than just the title of a CEO.

I know that it doesn't look conventional, but I have to believe that there is something more for me than just the title of a CEO.

I'm engaged, and I have.

I'm engaged, and I have.

A beautiful My art studio became a nursery, and I'm so blessed to have made it through that. But I think when we talk about surrender and we talk about these mountaintops. I think we're just I grew up on the church as well, and I just felt like I was so ingrained in just the constant achievement of constantly meeting more and more and more, and by slowing down is when I was able to actually receive what was truly or day for me.

A beautiful My art studio became a nursery, and I'm so blessed to have made it through that. But I think when we talk about surrender and we talk about these mountaintops. I think we're just I grew up on the church as well, and I just felt like I was so ingrained in just the constant achievement of constantly meeting more and more and more, and by slowing down is when I was able to actually receive what was truly or day for me.

That's so beautiful because I think even for women, many times we feel as though we have this time period where we need to do everything. And I love it when you say God says no, I have a lifelong vision and a plan for you, because even for me as a mom, you know, sometimes people are like panic, like does that slow you down? What does that look like? Are you going to be able to do the things you want to do? And there are times where you want to tell the person, no, it doesn't slow you down.

That's so beautiful because I think even for women, many times we feel as though we have this time period where we need to do everything. And I love it when you say God says no, I have a lifelong vision and a plan for you, because even for me as a mom, you know, sometimes people are like panic, like does that slow you down? What does that look like? Are you going to be able to do the things you want to do? And there are times where you want to tell the person, no, it doesn't slow you down.

You can just do everything, and you can do everything in its season, and there's a moment where you need to be slowed down, right for that lifelong vision and the lifelong plan.

You can just do everything, and you can do everything in its season, and there's a moment where you need to be slowed down, right for that lifelong vision and the lifelong plan.

Absolutely, And I think what's been important to me in this season where I absolutely slow down. I mean I don't say yes to almost anything. I'm so grateful to him for me having an alternative, a reason to say no when you have no other reason besides your career. It can be a very lonely, lonely experience. And so I'm so grateful that I have something so beautiful and joyful, a reason to say.

Absolutely, And I think what's been important to me in this season where I absolutely slow down. I mean I don't say yes to almost anything. I'm so grateful to him for me having an alternative, a reason to say no when you have no other reason besides your career. It can be a very lonely, lonely experience. And so I'm so grateful that I have something so beautiful and joyful, a reason to say.

Now and just by you know, let's go a pulse check. Any mothers in the room that sometimes feel as dough You're being held back. Wow, all around the room, and here's the beauty. There are seasons in life where you're supposed to be held back because of what God wants to do in your life in the longevity of his plan. I remember literally last year, you know, women evolved right here. I had just given birth and I wanted to be here because Pastor Sarah, pastor Toay, those are my pastors, and I wanted to be here. But I'm like, I have a newborn, so I'm going to stay home. That was a season to slow down. And there are moments where you're feeling like man, you know, you're having fomo and all these things. But when you surrender to the season of your life, you experience more joy rather than going through you know, and.

Now and just by you know, let's go a pulse check. Any mothers in the room that sometimes feel as dough You're being held back. Wow, all around the room, and here's the beauty. There are seasons in life where you're supposed to be held back because of what God wants to do in your life in the longevity of his plan. I remember literally last year, you know, women evolved right here. I had just given birth and I wanted to be here because Pastor Sarah, pastor Toay, those are my pastors, and I wanted to be here. But I'm like, I have a newborn, so I'm going to stay home. That was a season to slow down. And there are moments where you're feeling like man, you know, you're having fomo and all these things. But when you surrender to the season of your life, you experience more joy rather than going through you know, and.

Sometimes there's a.

Sometimes there's a.

Depression and anxiety we go through because we're trying to hold on to certainty. And when you relinquish that, and you surrender certainty and say God, I'm okay where you have me, there's a year later that goes by and you show up where you want it to be at anyway. And I just want to encourage the mothers in the room surrender to the season of where God has you.

Depression and anxiety we go through because we're trying to hold on to certainty. And when you relinquish that, and you surrender certainty and say God, I'm okay where you have me, there's a year later that goes by and you show up where you want it to be at anyway. And I just want to encourage the mothers in the room surrender to the season of where God has you.

You're not being held back.

You're not being held back.

From anything, and if you are, it's actually going to give you. There's a resistance that you need so God can launch you out further.

From anything, and if you are, it's actually going to give you. There's a resistance that you need so God can launch you out further.

No, that's really good, really good. I think the thing for me that I had to surrender is my comfortability. I don't really like being in the limelight. I kind of enjoy being in the background because that's safe for me. And I've been working for Women Involved or I was working for Women Involved for about six years before I started doing.

No, that's really good, really good. I think the thing for me that I had to surrender is my comfortability. I don't really like being in the limelight. I kind of enjoy being in the background because that's safe for me. And I've been working for Women Involved or I was working for Women Involved for about six years before I started doing.

Whatever it is that God calls me to do.

Whatever it is that God calls me to do.

I do music, I do podcasts, but it is so much easier for me to just like sit back and be in the background because that's comfortable. But God's been dealing with my heart saying, like Isaiah, I didn't call you to be comfortable. I called you to be my chosen son. And so I remember I got an email earlier this year and they were asking me to serve a woman involved. So I'm assuming they're talking about merchandise because that's what I've been doing. And you know, they're like, okay, yeah, we're gonna need a heads shot in a bio. I'm like, for merchandise, what are we talking about? And you know they're they're asking for more questions. I'm like, hey, you know what, just for clarity, what exactly do y'all want me to do? And they're like, oh, you're gonna be speaking. I'm like, women, are y'all going to tell me that? And you know I do music, so like that's what I'm more comfortable with. So when God asked me to leave a woman involved earlier this year, I thought maybe I would be coming back and like some sort of songwriting role and you know, even as comfortable for me because at least I don't got to be on the stage.

I do music, I do podcasts, but it is so much easier for me to just like sit back and be in the background because that's comfortable. But God's been dealing with my heart saying, like Isaiah, I didn't call you to be comfortable. I called you to be my chosen son. And so I remember I got an email earlier this year and they were asking me to serve a woman involved. So I'm assuming they're talking about merchandise because that's what I've been doing. And you know, they're like, okay, yeah, we're gonna need a heads shot in a bio. I'm like, for merchandise, what are we talking about? And you know they're they're asking for more questions. I'm like, hey, you know what, just for clarity, what exactly do y'all want me to do? And they're like, oh, you're gonna be speaking. I'm like, women, are y'all going to tell me that? And you know I do music, so like that's what I'm more comfortable with. So when God asked me to leave a woman involved earlier this year, I thought maybe I would be coming back and like some sort of songwriting role and you know, even as comfortable for me because at least I don't got to be on the stage.

But this is way worse.

But this is way worse.

So I'm understanding, like God, you're making me stand on it, like if I'm trying to, if I'm praying for you know, this this baldness, then I got to really work on it, so I'm But the thing that I think made me so in love with comfortability is because I was afraid.

So I'm understanding, like God, you're making me stand on it, like if I'm trying to, if I'm praying for you know, this this baldness, then I got to really work on it, so I'm But the thing that I think made me so in love with comfortability is because I was afraid.

It's two things.

It's two things.

For one, coming from such a lineage of greatness, it can be daunting to think, like Isaiah, this is up next for you. But two things have to happen.

For one, coming from such a lineage of greatness, it can be daunting to think, like Isaiah, this is up next for you. But two things have to happen.

I think.

I think.

For one, I have to recognize my own uniqueness and then recognize that there's covenant connected to my family and so the anointing doesn't stop at a generation. We've seen it with my granddad and then they went down to my Madre and then you know, my beautiful mom is here and she's an incredible worship leader. And then obviously my dad is Pastor Terrey Roberts, Like that's amazing. And I've seen how the anointing has flowed to me and Totaya and Wren and Malachi and Kenzy and Ella, and God has shown me the faithfulness when I decided to get out of being comfortable. And then the other thing was I think I was afraid to be out in spaces like this and be in a role of ministry because I was dealing with sin in my life. You know, I've been, you know, struggling with sexual I was struggling with pornography addiction, and so it made sense for me to try to hide that and not be out in spaces like this because I didn't feel worthy of being chosen by God. Not realizing that Isaiah, you're free from sexual lusts, You're free from point addiction. So this comfortability that you've had with hiding from yourself no longer serves me. And so yeah, stepping into a moment like this, I think affirms what God told me and now I'm able to be free with it.

For one, I have to recognize my own uniqueness and then recognize that there's covenant connected to my family and so the anointing doesn't stop at a generation. We've seen it with my granddad and then they went down to my Madre and then you know, my beautiful mom is here and she's an incredible worship leader. And then obviously my dad is Pastor Terrey Roberts, Like that's amazing. And I've seen how the anointing has flowed to me and Totaya and Wren and Malachi and Kenzy and Ella, and God has shown me the faithfulness when I decided to get out of being comfortable. And then the other thing was I think I was afraid to be out in spaces like this and be in a role of ministry because I was dealing with sin in my life. You know, I've been, you know, struggling with sexual I was struggling with pornography addiction, and so it made sense for me to try to hide that and not be out in spaces like this because I didn't feel worthy of being chosen by God. Not realizing that Isaiah, you're free from sexual lusts, You're free from point addiction. So this comfortability that you've had with hiding from yourself no longer serves me. And so yeah, stepping into a moment like this, I think affirms what God told me and now I'm able to be free with it.

That's beautiful. Wow. Amen Kobe.

That's beautiful. Wow. Amen Kobe.

You know, going from your story because say you touched on shame and that has been a topic that we've all been sharing. And so going from your story to now being a mental health professional, how would you speak to shame?

You know, going from your story because say you touched on shame and that has been a topic that we've all been sharing. And so going from your story to now being a mental health professional, how would you speak to shame?

Wow?

Wow?

Well, first I would define shame. So the incredible Irene Rolin talked about how all shame is not bad and truly it is true. Shame is an emotion that tells us that our ability to connect is at risk. Right, Shame is an emotion that tells us you might lose relationship if you continue to operate in this way. You might lose relationship if you continue to speak this way, talk this way. There's certain people who won't tolerate relationship with you if you stay the way you are in this right but toxic shame. What it does it applies that real principle to inaccurate situations. Right. So scripture says God is always with us, he'll never forsake us. If we make our bed in hell, that he will be there with us, that even darkness is light to him. And so we have there's a standard God calls us to. But the enemy wants us to think that even if I want God, as long as I've done this thing, I'm at risk of losing my relationship with God. But the reality is relationship with God is always successible and to us, it's always extended to us. And I think that for many of us, we were taught in our childhood. Right if I cried go to your room, lost connection? Right if I said that hurt my feeling, I cut you off friendship over lost connection. So not only have we memorized these principles cognitively, we've memorized these principles in our bodies.

Well, first I would define shame. So the incredible Irene Rolin talked about how all shame is not bad and truly it is true. Shame is an emotion that tells us that our ability to connect is at risk. Right, Shame is an emotion that tells us you might lose relationship if you continue to operate in this way. You might lose relationship if you continue to speak this way, talk this way. There's certain people who won't tolerate relationship with you if you stay the way you are in this right but toxic shame. What it does it applies that real principle to inaccurate situations. Right. So scripture says God is always with us, he'll never forsake us. If we make our bed in hell, that he will be there with us, that even darkness is light to him. And so we have there's a standard God calls us to. But the enemy wants us to think that even if I want God, as long as I've done this thing, I'm at risk of losing my relationship with God. But the reality is relationship with God is always successible and to us, it's always extended to us. And I think that for many of us, we were taught in our childhood. Right if I cried go to your room, lost connection? Right if I said that hurt my feeling, I cut you off friendship over lost connection. So not only have we memorized these principles cognitively, we've memorized these principles in our bodies.

Like doctor Anita said.

Like doctor Anita said.

That we feel a visceral fear that I will lose connection.

That we feel a visceral fear that I will lose connection.

If I tell the truth.

If I tell the truth.

But we'll never know if fear is telling the truth if we don't act in opposition to it. So we have to feel the fear and acknowledge it so that we can understand why it's there. But then we speak back to the fear through our action. And that's not just like a thought or a cute phrase. It's literally how we rewire the brain. Right that some of us we want to feel different before we do something, but we feel different because we did something, And so for many of us we feel the shame of.

But we'll never know if fear is telling the truth if we don't act in opposition to it. So we have to feel the fear and acknowledge it so that we can understand why it's there. But then we speak back to the fear through our action. And that's not just like a thought or a cute phrase. It's literally how we rewire the brain. Right that some of us we want to feel different before we do something, but we feel different because we did something, And so for many of us we feel the shame of.

Look at how many people in here.

Look at how many people in here.

There was still when Pastor Stephanie said I want you to share a part of your story, there was still a voice in my head that said, you can't tell that many people who's gonna trust you as a professional, who's gonna trust But God will take the things of your life that are meant to be shameful and use it to validate you and to actually use it as something that makes you more trustworthy because you are someone who went through it and someone who is willing to be honest about your experience. So it's important for us to realize shame is real, but it's not always telling us the truth, and it's not always telling us the truth about the situation.

There was still when Pastor Stephanie said I want you to share a part of your story, there was still a voice in my head that said, you can't tell that many people who's gonna trust you as a professional, who's gonna trust But God will take the things of your life that are meant to be shameful and use it to validate you and to actually use it as something that makes you more trustworthy because you are someone who went through it and someone who is willing to be honest about your experience. So it's important for us to realize shame is real, but it's not always telling us the truth, and it's not always telling us the truth about the situation.

That we're in. Now, how would you say that showed up for you in marriage?

That we're in. Now, how would you say that showed up for you in marriage?

Because we were going to circle back what he shared, even when he said in the beginning, the Lord told him the marriage is for healing. Now we have many women when we talk about relationships and marriage, nobody wants to.

Because we were going to circle back what he shared, even when he said in the beginning, the Lord told him the marriage is for healing. Now we have many women when we talk about relationships and marriage, nobody wants to.

Hear it's for healing.

Hear it's for healing.

Yeah, it's for a good times travel, you know, out with Bay And so how was it on your end as the woman making room for him and dealing even with that topic of shame?

Yeah, it's for a good times travel, you know, out with Bay And so how was it on your end as the woman making room for him and dealing even with that topic of shame?

Why are you being messy? Why are you being messy?

Why are you being messy? Why are you being messy?

It was?

It was?

It was difficult for many reasons. But you know, and many times I'm being real. People don't always love when we're real about marriage because we want the fairy tale. But Jesus didn't live a fairy tale, So why do you think you're gonna live a fairy tale? AnyWho? I was like, God, why why am I doing this? Why do I need to make? Let me go back? I wanted Kyle to restore every relational wound in every relational context. I realized that in many ways I wanted we got married young we got married, We got engaged at twenty two? What we got engaged at twenty two, married at twenty three, pregnant by twenty four, and first kid by twenty four. Right our friends were in grad school and we over here trying to figure out how do you pay a bill? Like we I wanted him to be my savior. And because you have no problems and I got lots of problems, You're gonna be my problem solver. You're gonna be the person who's responsible for making me feel safe and secure in every way. And I remember being like, God, this, I don't know if I like this? Can I quit? Can we not do this? And the Lord said this to me, and I'm living in it now. He said, the woman you're called to be and the woman Kyle's called to be are meant to be together. You're not gonna feel it right now, because he said that his rough edges were sticking into my wounds. But I would have never addressed those wounds on my own unless there was something irritating them. And so there was a daily irritation. There was a daily friction that would not let me escape the healing that God was calling me to. But also I want to say this. God taught me that men are precious to him. We think about all the sweet and syrapy words and we think about we think about women. Oftentimes. Kyle is precious to God. Kyle is precious to God cares about Kyle's emotion. Standards of the world are not the standards that God has called Kyle to experience. Like John, God has called Kyle to lay his head on his chest. God has called Kyle to deep an intimate relationship with him, right, And so I had to realize to be softer to him, not because you know, I'm moving to my feminine or whatever, because I had to see that he was just as precious to God as I was. And it was okay for his feelings to be hurt because he's a person. It was okay for him to cry because he's sad, because he's a person. And I found so much joy and just loving Kyle and just loving who he is and being silly and enjoying life together and being it feels like God grew us up spiritually so we could experience childlike joy together.

It was difficult for many reasons. But you know, and many times I'm being real. People don't always love when we're real about marriage because we want the fairy tale. But Jesus didn't live a fairy tale, So why do you think you're gonna live a fairy tale? AnyWho? I was like, God, why why am I doing this? Why do I need to make? Let me go back? I wanted Kyle to restore every relational wound in every relational context. I realized that in many ways I wanted we got married young we got married, We got engaged at twenty two? What we got engaged at twenty two, married at twenty three, pregnant by twenty four, and first kid by twenty four. Right our friends were in grad school and we over here trying to figure out how do you pay a bill? Like we I wanted him to be my savior. And because you have no problems and I got lots of problems, You're gonna be my problem solver. You're gonna be the person who's responsible for making me feel safe and secure in every way. And I remember being like, God, this, I don't know if I like this? Can I quit? Can we not do this? And the Lord said this to me, and I'm living in it now. He said, the woman you're called to be and the woman Kyle's called to be are meant to be together. You're not gonna feel it right now, because he said that his rough edges were sticking into my wounds. But I would have never addressed those wounds on my own unless there was something irritating them. And so there was a daily irritation. There was a daily friction that would not let me escape the healing that God was calling me to. But also I want to say this. God taught me that men are precious to him. We think about all the sweet and syrapy words and we think about we think about women. Oftentimes. Kyle is precious to God. Kyle is precious to God cares about Kyle's emotion. Standards of the world are not the standards that God has called Kyle to experience. Like John, God has called Kyle to lay his head on his chest. God has called Kyle to deep an intimate relationship with him, right, And so I had to realize to be softer to him, not because you know, I'm moving to my feminine or whatever, because I had to see that he was just as precious to God as I was. And it was okay for his feelings to be hurt because he's a person. It was okay for him to cry because he's sad, because he's a person. And I found so much joy and just loving Kyle and just loving who he is and being silly and enjoying life together and being it feels like God grew us up spiritually so we could experience childlike joy together.

Yo, you know what I was doing. You're really minished your help.

Yo, you know what I was doing. You're really minished your help.

You're helping me because I never saw that as a healing, and I've been I've been married for forty eight years and this.