Bet on Yourself w/ Tamron Hall

Published Mar 27, 2024, 3:30 PM

One thing for certain and two things for sure —today’s guest wouldn’t change nothing for her journey now! The powerhouse known as Tamron Hall links up with SJR, and tells listeners how a job loss propelled her into making the bold move of betting on herself and becoming a nationally syndicated talk show host. But can you imagine holding a position of authority and being diminished because you’re a woman? While sharing how power shows up in her home life, Tamron spills tea on the greatest love story ever told! Trust, you’ll want to hear it. But Sis, when will you start owning what you want, by speaking it into the world? They say closed mouths don’t get fed, so open your mouth! Learn more about the “Watch Where They Hide” book tour at TamronHall.tv

 

 

Being alone does not mean that I have to experience loneliness. I just gave my fear of change more power than my fear of data staying the same.

People would say to me, Sarah, are she so courageous? And I said, I wish it was courage it was not.

No.

No, I'd say, you know, fight or flight, because I'm not a runner.

I'm not a runner.

Welcome back, Welcome back.

This is another episode of the Woman Evolved podcast.

How are you doing?

Let me tell you something. Last week's episode was unhinged. I am hinged today. I'm a little bit hinged, not fully hinged, but I'm trying to be hinged today. Last week's episode was a blast. So many of you all came to listen to the podcast for the first time from that social media clip in which we talked about twerk Gate. I want to be clear because I went through the comments and I'm going to turn my phone off because I am a profession you know. I went through the comments, and I want you to know that I was not concerned about being canceled for what I said about twerking. I was concerned because I am You know, some people when they think pastor and they hear the word twork, they say the two shall never meet, and yet there they were meeting. And in addition to that, I wasn't necessarily saying, you know, don't check on things. I was saying, you know, check on things with discretion, wisdom. And these aren't the types of conversations that we have often, And so I think that I was feeling a little bit nervous just about having that conversation, knowing that it would be outside of my control what sound bites tap into it. But all in all, I think we were, you know, mostly on the same page. I hope that I helped my goodness out. I really do think that what she was asking is basically, how do I still continue to show up, enjoy life, be a good person, follow Jesus, and pursue righteousness and not feel like somebody's grandmother. And I hope we gave her some tools. If you are like her and you're wondering how you do that, go back and listen to last week's episode, but get connected with the woman Evolve community. There are so many different types of women who are on a similar journey to who you are, some more advanced, maybe some a little bit behind. By all of us with the same goal. You may be wondering what's the best way to get plugged in. You can download the woman Evolve app. On the woman Evolve app, we're having conversations about all of the things. There are different groups. So if you are climbing the corporate ladder and trying to maintain your faith, there's a group for that. If you're single and trying to figure out how do I find a life that continues to be rewarding and fruitful outside of partnership, We've got one for that. We've got one from moms and parenting, divorced women, grieving women, like whatever it is that you're facing. We've tried to have a group that will meet you where you are Fitness girlies, and if that doesn't work, just get into the major group chat. I'm sure there's a woman out there who can identify or at least make you feel us alone. So thank you guys for all of the comments and the laughs connected to last week's episode. How are you doing? How's your week going so far? I am you know, I'm on the struggle bus. Some of you may be wondering, like, how did everything go with a message, Oh, my gosh, God gave me something to say, hanging on to that scripture about being about Jesus always causing us to triumph and leaving the fragrance of Him wherever we go. Really, just it came through for me because I have to tell you, I don't know that I have preached three times in one week.

Ever.

If I have, it has not been in a long time. But Thursday night I preached a message. It was very powerful. It was called Finished Strong. I am hoping that we can put it on YouTube soon. But I spoke about intersectionality and then it's root word being intersection and how many of us live in intersections that we can't control, and are also called to intersections that we upset yes to, and how difficult and challenging it can be to navigate those intersections, but inviting God into them, how we do that? It was beautiful. I love it. I was so grateful God gave me something. So it was a long weekend, a lot of warfare, a lot of things that felt just like an attack.

I got sick out of nowhere.

Usually when I get sick, my kids bring home germs from school, and then I get sick. I get sick out of nowhere. They were completely healthy. It was the Wednesday before I was supposed to preach. I'm still kind of dealing with some congestion, but I really feel like it was just the devil doing what the devil does. So but all in all, I've got some press this week, I'm traveling and I'm just taking it easy. Rest in my mind. Resurrection Sunday is coming up. I'm looking forward to that. I'm a tag team preach with my husband and my father. That'll be fun, interesting the first time, and yeah, we'll see how that goes. I talked about what I did, like who what I have to do. But as a person, I'm tired, I'm grateful, I need rest. I'm nervous with my book coming out. I have to tell you, as a black woman author, you know there is there has been a perspective in publishing circles that it can be challenging to figure out exactly what black readers want to digest and who they want to hear it from, and so there's not always a lot of value in the black audience. And so as a woman who has a predominantly black following, I've had to advocate for us hearing from our people and for the work that I believe God has given me. And I'm also having to keep it in front of people because at the end of the day, they're looking at the data, they're looking at the conversion. I'm so grateful for this book, Power Moves. I believe that it applies to any person, no matter where you are in your life, recognizing that our moves is not just about what we do outside of us, but how we allow power to move in us and through us, and then what happens outside of us is just the natural byproduct of that. And I'm really grateful for the message, and I want to get it in as many hands as possible, and so trying to make sure I keep it in front of people's hands. I hate asking people for things, right, and so there's a part of me that's like, can y'all please buy this book. It's going to change your life. Please, God gave it to me. I believe it's richly gonna bless you. But also, you know, feeling shy about saying that and putting myself out.

There's always a struggle. So y'all pray for me.

Please please get the book, not just for the reasons I listed, but because I think it's essential to us understanding how we balance these ever changing headlines responsibilities, hopes, dreams, and fears that are in front of us in a place that really anchors us and allows us to experience wisdom. So you guys, check out the book. It's gonna bless you. You can get it wherever books are sold. It comes out officially April thirtieth, but pre orders are really important because it says to the publisher, it says to the stores like, hey, this is a book that matters. We want to make sure that we have it in stock, and so they gauge that based off of the demand. So if I've done anything to help you, if I've preached a message or said anything that made you feel less alone, You've trusted me with the season in your life. I'm asking you to just pray about it. Ask God if you feel like this message is something that's for you. I've prayed while writing it and I know that.

It'll bless you. So you guys check it out.

So, yeah, nervous, all of those things, working hard, trying to be creative and innovative, authentic, stay true to myself, and you know, make sure I don't have boogers in my nose. Let's get into the mind your business question. You just minded mine. I want to mind yours. If you would like for me to mind your business, send your questions to podcasts at woman evolve dot com. I would love to help you navigate what is happening in your world to the extent that I can. I may not be able to say anything, but girl, that's that's I'm praying for you. But if I can say a little bit better, a little bit more than that, something a little bit better than that, I will be glad to help you.

This message.

I'm not exactly sure if she wants us to say her name, so I will leave it out. It says you out here knowing better, but not doing better. High pastor Sarah. I hope this message finds you well. The quote above is something I heard from you and one of your podcasts, and it's really speaking to me. At this point of my life, I need help. I'm hurting in so many ways, and I'm struggling to let go of the things and persons I know are contributing to me feeling like this. I feel emotionally drained and motivated, and I know I'm not pushing myself enough to achieve my goals. I'm ready to surrender and live a happier life. Looking forward to your response and speaking with you if you are able. Thanks in advance for your time. Man who cannot relate to this inward frustration of I feel like I can do better than this. I know that I can do better than this, but I don't know how to do better than this. Part of my argument about EVE is just because you know better, it really doesn't mean that you do better. There are so many of us who have known better but still found ourselves not doing better. Does that mean there's something wrong with us? Are we dumb?

Are we stupid? Are we lazy?

Like? These are all legitimate questions that I asked myself when I was having these similar emotions. What I know now that I didn't know then is that it's not that you're not pushing yourself hard enough to do something. It's that you haven't yet accepted that you're not going to do anything until you're comfortable with who you are in your being. And if you cannot trust who you are in your being, then you will never trust what you do in order to come to a place where you trust who you are in your being, you have to be willing to do those hard things. You have to be willing to make those decisions about the friendships, about the choices that you're making with your body, with your food, with your time, with your decisions. You have to be willing to be someone for yourself before you can become anyone for anyone else. And so you said that I'm hurting in so many ways, and I'm struggling to let go of the things and persons I know are contributing to me feeling like this. So I want you to do an exercise if you can relate to this. I want you to feel in the blank. I want you to say to me I feel, or say to yourself rather, I believe that blank is more powerful than blank. So when you tell me that I am allowing things in persons to contribute to the feeling like this, I would feel this in if I can give an example of me being in a toxic relationship, I would say that.

I believe.

That I am allowing the fear of being alone to be more powerful than me discovering who I am on my own. We have to get down to truth. You can say to yourself, I don't mind being alone. I can be powerful by myself, like you can say whatever you want to to yourself. But we got to get down to truth. If we get down to truth, then we can get to change. Without truth, there can be no change.

And so if you.

Are allowing people or things to contribute to you feeling inwardly frustrated, we have to figure out what power they have that is more powerful than who you believe you can become. This month, we're talking about becoming powerful in God. If we're going to become powerful in God, we have to see what we're allowing to have more power than God. I believe that the history of our friendship is more powerful than what it is right now.

So maybe right now.

It's not much of nothing, but because of what it is, I'm allowing that power to have more power than me seeing what it is right now, I want you to identify whatever that truth is, and then I want you to connect that with what you want to believe. I want to believe that being alone does not mean that I have to experience loneliness. I want to believe that letting go of smoking is not more powerful than me figuring out who I am in God. I want to believe that I can have a clear mind. I want to believe I used to smoke weed all the time. And I used to smoke weed all of the time because at the end of the day I got so high I did not have to feel anything at all. And there was something about being numb about like floating in the clouds, that just made me feel like, oh my gosh, this is so much better than sitting in.

My real life.

People say, you can't be addicted to me. Maybe I was just addicted to that feeling that you for feeling. But there came a time in my life where I was like, I don't want to have to be high to survive my life. I want a life that doesn't have to feel like I need to survive it. And so I had to sit in the pain and the discomfort of what was happening in my life that made me want to escape it. And when I began to do that, I realized that, like I had more power to change my life than I was giving myself credit to credit for, Like God had already given me the power when God gave me a vision of what my life should look like, regardless of the fact that I didn't agree with that vision, Like I had power, and when your power, your belief, your faith aligned with God's power, belief and faith, then the Holy Spirit will lead you into How do I walk into that? And so I stopped smoking and I started sitting. You know, I started thinking about what type of mother do I want to be? What type of woman do I want to be? What type of food choices do I want to make? What do I want my relationship with God to look like? And I begin making decisions in that direction. And know it wasn't perfect twenty four to seven, and yes I had moments where I fell back as well, but there was something about making a decision to move in the direction of God's vision for my life that made me feel more confident in who I was. And when you become more confident in who you are, you are then able to do the things that are only connected to that empowered version of you. Sometimes we want an empowered vision, but we aren't empowered people. And until we can become an empowered person, we cannot lay hold of an empowered vision. It's going to take power for you to manifest who God has called you to be in the earth.

It's going to take power.

When Jesus calls the disciples and he says hello, he didn't just say I want you to go cast out demons and go heal the sick, and I want you to raise the dead and preach and call people to repentance. He said, I am giving you power to do it. I didn't just give you the vision. I have to give you the power to make the vision possible. That power has to be in you. It has to be a part of you. It cannot just happen because if something that's taken place outside of you. So you need power in you. When power is in you, then power can move through you, and then power can move for you. How do I get power in me? You have to see what has more power over you. Right now, when you see what has more power over you, you get to reclaim that power. Fear you don't get to have it. Shame you don't get to have it. Addiction you don't get to have it. Loneliness you don't get to have it. I'm taking that power back, and I'm throwing that power in the direction of who God says I am, in order from my spirit to look like God's spirit. I am going to need the Holy Spirit, Jesus, Angel, prayers, boundaries, discipline, I'm going to need all of these things to move in the direction of that. But when I do, I become an empowered person who was confident enough to say I can trust myself, I can recover, I can forgive myself. I can pick up the pieces and move in the direction of God's vision for my life. That is confidence that allows us to become a force. That is what this book is about. And so I don't want to say your name, almost said your name. I hope that this helps you. I need you to surrender to becoming, not doing. I need you to make decisions for yourself that will allow you to become who God has always known. And real quick, I want to read you just a little excerpt from my book that I think will really help you, although I just basically gave you a whole breakdown, So it says, I want you to begin analyzing the ways that you unknowingly relinquish power on small levels. It's easy to think about the big areas that we want to change, but what about the small dreams in our lives, the actions and assumption that poke holes and make way for slow leaks. I have felt powerless before in saving money, losing weight, participating in functions that I did not want to attend, condoning offensive behavior, or allowing someone to blatantly lie in an effort to keep the peace. I tell myself that I was incapable of controlling the scenario, but that was never true. I just gave my fear of change more power than my.

Fear of things staying the same.

If you're going to become powerful in God, you are going to have to come to a place where your fear of change is not more powerful than your fear of things staying the same.

Oh, that helps you evolve.

You may remember when I was having a conversation with my friend Jason Bow and Cindy Brown, and we were talking about what does it mean when a woman is powerful? Like do powerful women really recognize how powerful they are? And if they do know they're powerful, does it come off as arrogant? This is a question that I have pondered, and especially as it relates to becoming powerful in God. You know, I mentioned to you last week that after I spoke twice in like three days, that I was feeling like a little confident. I was like, Lord, don't let me be proud or arrogant. And then I found that scripture about always triumphing in Christ, and it gave me a lot of peace in my soul. Because there has to be how can I say this, There has to be a moment in which we decide that I will no longer punish myself with insecurity or low self esteem. Let's let that marinate for a minute. There has to come a moment when you are willing to say to yourself I no longer have to punish myself with low self esteem or insecurity because of.

What I see, what I did, who I was. When we truly believe.

That because we have given our lives to Jesus, and that we are living a life that seeks to channel God and all that we do that seeks to acknowledge how much growth we have yet to accomplish, but also how assured we are of that being possible, there has to come a moment where we begin to say to ourselves, I will no longer punish myself by playing small, playing little, demeaning myself, diminishing my contribution, because I am who God says I am, and I can't say that I am there twenty four to seven, but there was something powerful about the Scripture reminds that I can be triumphant in God, like I'm allowed to be confident in what God is doing in my life and how God is showing up, how I am creating space for that to happen, how my obedience is paving away. This is not an entitlement, This is not arrogance. This is acknowledgment that Christ's power is working through me. And I recognize that we have this treasure in earth and vessels. He could use anyone else, and yet He's using me. And I'm honored by that. I'm humbled by that, and I can own that, and I am hopeful that I will get to a place where that become second nature to me and that you will too. I was in conversation with tamer And Hall, and she is one of those women who I believe make power look easy. You may know her from her amazing syndicated daytime talk show, which has earned her two Daytime Emmy Awards. She was formally a national news correspondent for NBC News, a daytime anchor for MSNBC, host of the MSNBC Live with Tammeron Hall and a co host of Today's Take the third Hour of Today. She hosts Deadline Crime on Investigation Discovery Channel, but she has recently taken daytime television by storm. In September of twenty and nineteen, her daytime talk show debut. She is a Texas girl. She's from I want to say she I think she said Luling, Lulling, Texas. Luling Texas girls helped me out, but then she moved to the DFW area and she's got a lot of the same stomping grounds that I am very well familiar with. In this conversation, though, I was just I was struck by her confidence, by her poise, by her humility. We talk about finding love even though you're a powerful woman, owning your voice when it comes to advocating for your gifts, your talents, your ideas, and environments and settings where that may not always be easy. I think you're going to be completely and utterly blown away by this conversation. Check it out. So this is a little intimidating because you are that girl.

Oh are you kidding me? Or amazing? And thank you for coming on before I'm excited.

Thank you, I really appreciate it. I wanted to talk a little bit about your journey. This month at Woman Evolve, we're talking about surrendering to becoming powerful, which with it being Women's History Month, and we recognize just how difficult it can be for women to create spaces where their voices and ideas are taken seriously and then even propelled into places maybe where they never thought they would be, and certainly there wasn't any space reserved for them. I cannot think of someone better to talk to than you, as you are not just First of all, you're a Texas girl, which we girl.

What you know about those Texas girls, what you know about us about us?

But I'm curious just to know a little bit about your journey and the systems that you've had to navigate to get to a place to where you are now where most people would think. You know, you're one of the most powerful voices in television and you are being so intentional about the conversations you're having. But this was a journey. So can we talk a little bit about your journey?

Of course, and you know it's still a journey. I'll be very honest with you last night, around two am, I found myself just sobbing. I had a very frustrating conversation with someone who I felt really intentionally to be honest with you, attempted to diminish me, attempted to make me somehow feel like the name of the show was like a rent whole sign, like I rent the name tammeron Hall that I'm not tamoron Hall. And it was very fascinating because I'm executive producer and creator of the show, and so often I find myself needing, not feeling like needing to say to people, I am not just a person who walks on camera and says, feed me my lines.

I'm not an actress.

I am holly like you, wholly invested in anything that we do because we recognize the impact of our voice, of the power we project, and what our names mean. And so I was on this call without you know, going into too much detail, but it happened earlier in the day, like six o'clock, and then.

All of a sudden, I woke out.

I was crying, and I was so frustrated, wondering, you know, when does it and when does it stop being so hard?

Right?

When do you have to stop demanding or commanding people to understand you and your power and your and that it is not a what do they call it, It's not a flex.

Your power.

And I laughed at some point in the midst of my tears and said, you know, I think that's a battle of a woman. That's the battle a black woman. Yeah, it doesn't get easier.

I don't believe. You learn to deal with it, not suppress it. Right. It doesn't mean push it down and just soldier through.

But I think you learn tools and mechanisms to allow yourself to soar versus letting it hold you down. You know, you allow yourself to be surrounded by people who will empower your voice and and make you feel heard and collaborate, right I am.

There is nothing better for me, Sarah than getting on the phone with.

My friends and we literally collaborate on how I'm going to win and how they're gonna We laugh and we you know it is it's so joyful to sit on especially friends that I had the same best friend who's in four worth since I was four years old, and she is the reason that I'm in TV because she was the first person that ever beat me running I ran track. I ran at Polly High School. I ran track my whole life, summer track. I was the kids that you see, the big group in the nine thousand degree Texas heat going jun year Olympics.

That was me.

And then when my best friend once we were in high school, beat me, it just it was a wake up call.

I was like, Okay, I'm not as fast as I think I am.

And that was a big pivot right at seventeen, realizing that this dream of being in the Olympics and all of these things that I thought would happen. I knew I was gonna be Carrie Champion me. I'm not Kuri Richardson, Shakari Richardson.

I knew because I was Flow Joe, and then I was gonna be her, you know.

So that dream was, as they say, deferred, and it led me to really hunkering down on journalism and recognizing this gift I believe I have communicating with people and allowing them to feel safe to talk about their journeys, just as you have with me on the show. So I think going all the way back, I mean I was born in Lulin, Texas, this teeny tiny town right outside of Lockhart in the Hill Country. My grandfather was a sharecropper who couldn't read that he signed his name with an ex And I grew up hearing that story of this very proud man who raised his children after his wife passed away.

My mom was ten when her mom passed away.

He raised his children and with great pride and great confidence, but couldn't read. I mean, imagine that he's signing his name with an ex and I make my living with words. And my mom, who was a nineteen year old single mom who went to Paul Quinn and found herself returning home after her first year to tell her father that she was expecting a child and what that would look like and what that meant for her, but still soldiering through and moving to Dallas forward saying, the opportunities are here in Luling, let me go and let me bet on myself. So so much of my journey, honestly has included moments like that, women, especially my aunts and folks around me, who poured in that bet on your self mentality. And I think whether it was when I was in local news to Chicago, to the Today's Show at MSNBC, to where I am now, I wear that bet on yourself on my sleep, and it's my superpower.

I think it's so interesting that we know you for your voice, we know you for the way that you show up in our homes, and yet behind the scenes, you're still having to exercise the power of your voice, Like, no matter how powerful it is on screen or in our homes, you're still having to introduce and reintroduce who you are in some of those spaces where you know conversations are being had.

I am here.

Do you remember like one of the first times where you had to make a decision to say, like, I'm not going to conform. I'm not going to go with the flow for the opportunity, like I'm going to say something even if this means resistance or that I become like someone that's considered a problem, because I have found that I'm writing, well it's written now, but there's a book that I've written called Power Moves, and I'm trying to debunk this idea that like power just shows up in one expression all of the time, that there are still moments where you have to exercise a different type of power and I will trust that that's power in that moment, and when I hear you speaking up for yourself, you you know, demanding that your ideas be honored in these spaces. It's making me wonder like, did you have to take a chance on doing that? Did you have to bet on yourself and doing that?

Oh?

Yeah?

And I think sometimes I wish, you know, for example, when I when I left the Today Show and made the decision that what they offering wasn't enough, people would say to me say, oh, she's so courageous, and I said, I wish it was courage It.

Was not, you know, it was not. I'm a big back against the wall, right.

I make my strongest moves when I feel that I don't have any other option but to run forward.

Right.

I am not I'm not risk adverse to controversy or conflict. But it's not my nature.

But when it is time I was raised to you know, I talk a lot about you know, over time. I believe I have great perspective now at fifty three. Priorities are different than perspective. And I had my perspectives in my twenties and my priorities rather and my priorities probably were in the club, you know, you know, in thirties, my priorities were something else and maybe this or that. So now my my fifties, I don't look so much at priorities as I do perspective. And for me, you know, I had great perspective after losing that job about value. Who are you if there's nothing beneath your name? Right, if it's just Sarah Jakes Roberts, What does that sound like? What does that feel like? And I, you know, found myself going back.

To the core of the question.

The thing that came to mind when you pose that question for me'sair was when I cut my hair. I remember cutting my hair very, very short, and people saying, you're not going to be an anchor. There's no way because back then in the nineties, the anchors weren't wearing their hair short like this, Right, I was an out liar and it was all but a short to me. I would not be getting a job in TV. I kept my hair short, and it wasn't an act of you know, rebellion.

It was I like my hair short.

In fact, to be honest with my boyfriend at the time, loved a need a baker, and I loved him, so let.

Me look like you need a baker and this is the win here.

But over time, when I started to interview at TV stations, that was like the oh, what's going on with your hair? Why is your hair so short? And that was me claiming my power in this small way. It then turned into me feeling that I would not be controlled to look.

Like everyone else. I was not going to.

I wasn't going to have to assimilate to get this job. My hard work and my determination would pay off that going back to that whole bossy complicated difficult, That's when it started. It's suddenly like, well, how dares she not take our advice? And then it turned into me speaking up in the newsroom. I mean I wrote my crime novel Watch where They Hide, and there's a scene with this character Jordan Manning, who's inspired by my life, where she said, you know, when you are a black woman in the office, everyone thinks they're your boss, even when you are the boss.

Wow.

And so that came from real experiences or speaking up to my news director at the time. In Dallas, there was a description of a suspect and they said five four black man, you know, dark hoodie, And I said, this could be anybody. This isn't responsible and he said to me, well that's what the police gave us, and feeling so powerless, but then.

Saying, well, I'm not going to read it, you know.

And I pour a little of that in that character Jordan Manning, because I did want people who see my career to see a little bit of what happened.

They asked me, are you ready to write a memoir?

I was like, too zoom, Like Dave Chappelle said, they asked him to go on what was Dancing with the Stars.

And You're like, yeah, the memoir, I'm like to soon, to soon.

But I was ready to create this character that showed you little glimpses of being a black woman. One of one many times in the newsroom, one of one in a press conference, yelling.

Out my question. It was, you know, it's kind of surreal, but I I find my boldest moves.

When I when I.

I say, you know, fight or flight, because I'm not a runner.

I'm not a runner. I mean, I really don't enjoy that about myself. Like I didn't know that I am fight or flight. I wish I could run, But there is something that happens where I'm like, if we're in it, we're in it.

Let's go, and I'm the same way I am the I tell my friends I am that two a m.

Let's drive by my youth, right, I'm wired that way.

I am not a runner, but it takes I give a lot of chances. Even going back to the beginning of our conversation, when I'm saying I was in tears, I gave that conversation multiple I gave that person multiple times to get that conversation right because I didn't to your point, I didn't want to have to to respond in the way I felt I was left no choice.

Yeah. Can I ask you?

So? We see your power in your career and the way that staying true to that authenticity has paved a way for us to experience different versions of your gifts and talents. How do you feel like your power is different in your more private personal life? Without going into details, because I know you're very.

No, No, I understand.

You know my husband and I we have I feel a great balance, right. I think that he knows who he married and I know who I married, right, and he knows that if I come home and there's about two more Amazon boxes empty, I'm go go right. But he also knows rot I root in a way for the people I love that that I hope they know right I am. In fact, I just told someone the other day about my son who's going through something, and I felt that he was not even at age four and he's a you know, he's multi race, but he's a black child and he's a black boy, and I felt that he was not being treated fairly in the situation. And I had to quite honestly remind someone that I'm a mama bear rapped and a little lion, you know, and I'm going to protect. I'm a fierce protector. So in my home life, you know, Stephen is really big on like date nights. I'm not a big date night person. I actually hate date nights because I think it's contrived.

I'm a virgo. I'm like waiting have to play.

My husband's a verygo God bless you all.

We're virgo, so you already know what he's dealing with.

So, you know, I feel like in my home it's not about power, it's about understanding, right, And my power is the way I love and the way I love when I'm mad, the way I love when I'm sad. Those are the things that are important in our dynamic and our home.

My husband.

You know, my husband's a five to five Jewish manager with When he first hit on me, I thought he was trying to represent me. I'm like, wait a minute now. And it took time for me eve when realized he was trying to hit on me. But one of the things that worked so beautifully was the unexpected nature of it. And I just lost my job and there was the first time I'd been unemployed ever in my life since it works. When I was fourteen, I worked at Toys r Us in hirst Ulis Bedford, right, and.

So I've never not worked and I was out of a job. And in that.

Loss of what I thought meant so much, I actually gained again going back to that word of perspective of what I wanted, And I wanted consistency not just in my family and my friends, but in my partner.

And I wanted a child. And we set off on.

This crazy IVF journey and it is up with this little kid named Moses, who's awesome. But in our home life, you know, my power is the way I can love.

Yeah, was it hard for you as someone who was driven someone who's always worked to I don't even like because I wasn't sing one mother. When I met my husband, I bought my own home, like, I was very established, and I wasn't like I don't need a man, but like I didn't need one, like I had the option of wanting one, you know. And then when it was time for me to get mad, I realized, in order for this marriage to work, you're going to have to feel like you need, like this is something you really want.

I love that question, sary, because here's why I wasn't. I'm like you, I'm like, I don't need but true story, I was on the fence about this situation.

I'm like, you know, we kind of moved in.

Well, we moved in together three weeks almost four weeks after our first date.

And here's oh wait what you no, here's why, here's why, here's why. So we went out on a date. He said pizza. I was like, great, and I've never told anybody this was true. I was.

I had cramps, really bad cramps, and I was like, I'm canceling this date.

I am done, give me mid all go away. So he was like, no, well, let's walk. You know, you got to.

Get up and go and I'm like, ah, so I have like no in other relationships, maybe I have more pretense, but I was thinking, I don't even know this dude, and he doesn't really.

Well you know whatever. And so we went.

We walked and it was just a beautiful walk to this Italian restaurant in my neighborhood in Tribeca and walked back.

It was just very comfortable and I was like, this could be something.

But then the greatest story effort I had a My home had an elevator that opened up into the apartment.

Right. It's one of those like New York style departments.

I go on the elevator to get ready to go to my dermatologists, and the elevator stops.

It has never stopped.

I'm by myself because there were only eight units in my building and the elevator won't open, and I'm pushing the like help me button. We don't have a doorman. I mean, it's true, one of those trybeca lofty things. And I call him and I was like, I am trapped in this elevator and he was at his office and he was like, I'm on my way, and I was like, I just can't call nine one one and let somebody know. And the reception was terrible, and all of a sudden, in a record lightning period of time, the elevator door starts being pulled open and I'm like, stop.

I'm gonna die. I'm gotta die.

And he goes give me your hand, and I had, wait for it, a sax bag with me like wait a minute, and he pulls me out of this elevator.

True story, and he will tell you that I was like, wait, my bag in my bag, and I.

Was like, maybe I do need this, you know what I mean, Maybe I do need this. And that's why, you know, with this character, Jordan Manning and my in My Crime novel, it was important that I put in that love. I didn't want it just to be a you know, a thriller or a mystery. I wanted that romantic side or that desire.

You know.

The character, Jordan Manning, is in her thirties right, her career is going well, and she's climbing the ladder and she has her passion and she's driven to solve this mystery of this woman who's missing.

But she wants that consistency.

She wants that person who can pull that elevator open and reach in, because I think we all do. I see on my show all the time. I tell people, you know, I grew up, you know, around very strong women who often would say, well, I can do bad by myself or you can do bad by yourself, and you don't.

And I understand that that toughening that you need. I do get in. I know where it comes from.

And I'm happy my mom was that way as an independent single mom and having to bet on herself in this way and not wanting me to fall into some of the traps of financial dependency and things that can happen when you're riding so hard that that they're your train, they're your car, they're your commulsion.

Right.

But but I tell my friends all the time, I'm like, you know what, if you want to be in a relationship, it's okay to say that. I told my cousin, you know, kill me. I was like, you better get one of these dating sites. What are the reputables and get out there tell anybody you know, hey, I am interesting, I am looking, and I encourage that.

Not because I'm married now.

I wish somebody had told me that before, Like, don't just be open to it, say that's what you want, and that's powerful.

It is because it's owning what you want.

And I think in a world where women are often told what they want or told what they should, be happy to get to be in a space where you can own what you want and you can put it out into the world and not trying to separate yourself from it so you aren't disappointed. I think that's an incredible gift. And I was actually saying, even outside of maybe relationship, like to own the fact that you want to rest, to own the fact that you want to go out and get something to eat, like we're always shrinking and diminishing our house and pretending like, oh no, I'm very easy to work with.

I go with the flow.

Sometimes I am the flow, and the flow hundred for something different today.

Listen, I'll tell you.

I love that you said that, because you know, when I first started this show, I had to make some big changes editorially. I needed to make some big changes with staffing that I knew were necessary to make the show better. And we didn't get to five seasons by chance. Right when I launched this show, people told me every single show that was canceled that was hosted by people way more famous. So basically, you know, remind me that we didn't have a chance, and so I had to make very bold, decisive moves. And I remember my mother calling me after reading some article one.

Day that there just was a horrible person. It was a blood bats used fired everybody, which wasn't true. But my mother called me.

And she was crying and she said, this is not who you are. It's making me so mad. Why is it as a black woman? You know, you were making these decisions as a woman. And when men changed, you know, producers and change people all the time, no one says anything. And I said, you're right, but you know what, I can take it because I had gone through enough that I was prepared for that. And that's why I went on my social media. I was like, hey, tam fam.

Let me tell you what.

Let me tell you because we would not be here had I not said, let me continue to pursue a better version of the show. You know, I had one mission in mind, to make the audience proud, to make everyone feel welcome, to have real conversations, and to make you feel like this is where I want to watch The Tammer Hall show.

Like, oh, is that all? Let me just leave it on.

No, I want Tammer and Hall show to be on. And that took some decisive things. So to your point, I like, by the sixth second, you know, first half, we were in a global pandemic. I am in my home, two hundred and fifty employees are depending on me to figure out how to get this show going.

So I was the flow.

Yeah, right, you know.

And I said to myself, people tell you to be proud of yourself, and then you're proud of yourself, and then it's like, oh.

She's arrogant, or she's this, or she's that, or he's this or he's that.

They assign these things while at the same time literally reading books on how to build confidence. Yeah, it's like wait what, So you know, I have embraced the fact that being the boss doesn't mean cruelty, doesn't mean you know, I have all the answers, but I have to have some confidence in the direction.

It's just it's I feel like I'm being mentored and I'm just letting people listen in on it because I'm thirty five. You know. I started Woman Evolve and it looks a lot different than what traditional ministry has looked like. And one thing I knew for sure, Like God, if you were going to drag me into this, because I am I'd rather be introverted, I'd rather be behind the scenes. But something happened when I spoke to women. Something happened when I preach decermined, and I was like, Lord, if you're going to drag me into this, I'm going to do it authentically and maybe it'll work and maybe it won't, but I do not want to fail at pretending. I will feel seeing me all day long, like I don't know if I all for you, but I cannot twist and contort myself to become someone that is more palatable so that you can say I didn't like her anyway. Like if I'm going down, I'm going down as myself. And that to me, like authenticity is your superpower, Like if you can stand ten toe's down for you even when you're wrong, apologizing like you, it's not arrogance. But I'm going to stick beside me and I'm going to run on and see what the end gonna be as it relates to me and this partnership with God. And that is all I can hang on to because if I don't, people are going to put things in my hand that I don't even know if I'm called to carry, like I don't know if I'm called to carry this.

I love that you said it, because again going back to the day that I found out I was not going back to the Today Show, I went into deep prayer and people ask me, you know, well, were you mad? There was such a calm when I tell you I'm like, I said to the individuals, I have a picture of me and my mom.

I have a dress in that closet that belongs to me. I want the picture of my mom and my dressing.

By this time, Papa, and that wasn't me being arrogant. It was me saying, I'm in peace with this because I have I've spoken with God, I have gone into this closet, and I have e merged at peace with this. So the next day I donated all my clothes I wanted to just It was like a baptism in so many ways.

I was like, I'm good.

And I started to construct this idea of this conversation and who I would have on and what we would talk about and all of this. And so when it comes time to you know, you have the ingredients, right, you think you want. Now you're going to build a recipe. And now you're going to say I need a little more stuff. I didn't think I need, okay, And then someone will have the audacity to tell you no, wait a minute. I sold this show. I went into rooms with people who did didn't even want me in there, but had to take the meeting. I started this show with Harvey Weinstein. Three months in he is getting ready to go to trial on rape allegations. And now you want me to shrink myself down. That is not on the recipe list. I'm not shopping in the grocery store for that level of humility. I Am going to stand as you said, ten toes down and move in.

And so you know, I happen to have a heavier voice.

It's so funny because my voice was we were looking at some old tapes in me back that a little uch like I have a heavier voice, and you know, people would well her tone and I'm like, I'm literally saying hi guys, you know, and you know every sentence that I would start ould be like hey, you know. And then if I went in professional, oh too, harsh because you need me to song and dance to make you feel Okay, that's not the job. You know, We're in a global pandemic. I have to make decisive business decisions. I was an anchor and a reporter turned business woman because this is a business and I needed to make business decisions. And if it required me to come in and do a damsel in distress routine that was not on the menu, I'm not serving that up. And to your point, I'd rather fail being true to myself. And of course, as I said, nobody's right all the time. I don't pretennybody. I love collaborating. I am a big you know. We do table reads for our show. We get the scripts together and I sit and I reading. I enjoy. I think it's because I ran track and I love that communal energy of things, and I love when people can get around and talk and say oh I like that. And everybody got run out of the room crying because it's I always tell people, it's not this is a team right where to get there?

This I'm never going to hurt you.

My joy when I retire from this will be to be in, you know, somewhere retired and watching a TV show and seeing the names of the people who worked on my show. A lot of my kids are like in their twenties and thirties, I want to see executive producer. I'm like, I know that, Pa, you know, and I love that, and.

So I I fight hard.

I am competitive. I'm not going to apologize for that. I am not going to shrink down and I'm not Michelle Obama said, when people say angry black women, that says more about you than it does about me.

I'm not going to carry that.

Yeah, I wonder if they you know, because there's this idea that women are hard to work with, especially women of color, can be hard to work with, and like, are we hard to work with?

Or do we just take up space?

And because you're so, it's not as common as taking up space that when we take up space, it stands out because I do think.

I think it's easy. I think it's just an easy thing to say. Honestly. I addressed it on my show right after that incident. I told you there was some article that said, you know, she was difficult and I and it was after Gabrielle Union had been attacked because she was difficult, allegedly and I said on my air, does this get old?

Ever?

Like?

Is this?

I mean, like you guys have to come up with a new script if you want to get us out of the room. And to your point, that doesn't just relate to black women or women of color.

That's women.

I mean every day there's a woman in an office where a case in point.

My husband and I were talking about someone and.

An individual this lawyer referred to her as difficult, and I said what makes her difficult?

And he couldn't answer because he knew where I was going.

I said, it's a it's a pivot, it's a trope. It's an easy way to say you were uncomfortable because that person likely called you into a be accountable. Right, So now I am difficult or I am too tough. And I think with women, and this is one of the things that I know, I'm sure you have experienced this at every woman. I think in some capacity where you not only it's like you're the nurturer, you are the you know, I have to do things. You know there are men who manage, and someone wouldn't dare come in and say I just couldn't do it today because.

I forgot.

What he wants to forgot, you know, and I you know, but I'm so lucky to have five seasons. I think my team more than ever recognized that I root for them. But going back to what you're saying about the difficult, I just think it's an easy layup. It's been accepted through society for so long that if you say she's difficult to a room of one hundred people, you're probably gonna win fifty without even asking why.

But now that you have more.

Women in the rooms, more women who are leaders, that one hundred people hopefully will be half women, and they have all been called that, So you've lost half the audience, right, And so that's what I think. I think having I have a female executive producer, co executive producer, director, and I'm sure.

They've all been called difficult.

My PR team, I'm surrounded by women like yourself who are uplifters, and that's what I call us. We are uplifters and that comes with sometimes that label. And I'm okay to your point, I'm okay in that space.

Okay, I have one more question, I asked, and then I will reluctantly let you go because and.

I mean I'm to show in person.

I would love that.

I would love that, but I want to take advantage of the fact that I have you now. And what is the most powerful lesson God has taught you about forgiveness?

Mmmm?

Wow? My biological father not being in my life and being raised by my stepfather who was the father that God meant for me.

To have, and.

Allowing his journey to be his journey, and forgiving him for not being what I hoped he could be or my mother hoped he could be. But I also recognizing I don't have to try to make up that time, so we don't have a big relationship at all, honestly, But that doesn't mean I don't forgive him, because you know, he too, like my mother, was a kid, and if we are the total sum of even our worst experiences, you.

Know we're not.

None of us are, And so I can't hold him hostage to a mistake, as I would not want my son to hold me hostage to any.

Mistaken There's nothing like parenting to make your soul a little bit more gentle to those who parented you. I have so much perspective for my parents now and now I'm raising a fourteen year old girl.

It's good luck.

Good luck.

It don't know like that.

Thank you.

Thank you for your time, for your heart, for your offering to the world, for your leadership. Even those of us who are not in the day to day of what you're doing, are being led by your yes, and I just want you to know that it is. It's affecting us greatly and helping us to move forward in our destinies wherever they are.

So thank you, so much, thank you.

I just love you to death and I hope to see you. So thank you.

I am just sitting here wondering if you felt the very same thing that I felt in having this conversation with her. If you are curious about where you can learn more about her, she's on all of the social media's and she's on your local television or maybe an act that Carrie's Live TV. I'm telling you, I really experienced a blessing. I told my husband that I was blown away in a way that just made me feel like I was meeting a mentor that I didn't even know that I needed. Just so you know, the book that she mentioned where she's talking about the character Jordan Manning, is one that you will absolutely enjoy. You guys know if you're a part of the Woman Evolved book club that I am a fan of the books. And her new book is called Watch Where They Hide. It's by tammeran Hall. Of course, it is a part of a series. It is an edge of your seat thriller. I love just how much diversity she is showing in her expression as a news anchor. That's totally different than what it takes to be a daytime television host, which is totally different than what it takes to be an author, a wife, a mother. It sounds like tammeran Hall has discovered why and how power moves.

Okay, so this.

Latest book is one you don't want to miss. Make sure you can get it anywhere books are sold Amazon, Barnes, Noble, Target, Walmart, Bookshop, Books a million. Let's support what this queen has going on. And I hope you guys Okay, wait, so listen.

Okay. Last week I said, let's rescue Kate.

And I think that you know, at this point we got it even double down. Not that we are rescuing her from conspiracy theories, but we are rescuing her from us being in her business.

I felt so much shame. The word is shame that I.

Joined into a conversation about something I absolutely no business in, but was, you know, caught up in the talks and wondering where she was. Devastated to hear that she is facing cancer, recognizing how challenging that must be for her as a wife, a mother, and then a public figure. I can only imagine how difficult the public scrutiny was, and so certainly sending prayers and much apologies. Not that she listened to the Womani Ball podcast, but you know, just in case, you know, just I learned my lesson, a valuable lesson, sending prayers for her and anyone else who is battling this terrible, terrible disease, and just remembering how much victory we have when we are able to fight it with faith, with love, with hope, with compassion and empathy. So certainly sending all of those things your way. I did get a rescue and authorized rescue, and that someone has allowed me to mind their business. And it is pretty simple.

It says.

I've been married for over twenty years, and we have had our share of ups and downs, trust and believe, and we both have our traumas that have shown up in our marriage. I get that and understand how it's all connected, but Hubby doesn't get it. We have been to therapy together and I have done individual therapy, but Hubby hasn't and he definitely needs it. His shouted trauma involves absent parents, childhood rape, and child of molestation. I am the only person that's confided in about these things, and when it happens, I never have my therapy hadn't. No, I am not a therapist, but I always want to try because he refuses to go to individual therapy and he's too much of a man to ever tell anyone outside of me about his experiences as a child, especially the sexual abuse. I literally may go back to grad school to get a degree in family therapy, just to therapies my husband. Just by the way, I be thinking about this all the time, not the therapie my husband, which by the way she put in quotation marks, but because I am just so intrigued by the human experience and how it shapes us. Anyways, back to her letter, it says prayer is also a huge part of our life and journey, and I pray for my hubbies healing every day, twice a day. So do I just leave it in God's hands? Okay, I've heard people say that one spouse is not responsible for the other spouse's healing journey.

What are your thoughts on that?

Because at the end of the day, we are one and our charuments will affect eat the other.

So three questions.

Do you agree or disagree with one spouse is not responsible for the other spouse's healing journey? Do you think that someone who is broken gonna have healthy and successful relationships? Do I just leave his healing in God's hands? Thank you so much for taking time to rescue me. Okay, Mama, listen, I know this is like mind your business slash rescue me. But you know sometimes we out here trying to rescue the wives who are doing the therapy work with partners who are not yet in that space, and that can be really difficult. So to answer your questions and sequence, do I agree or disagree with one spouse is not responsible for the other spouse's healing journey? I do agree. It is not your responsibility to heal the other's spouse. It is not your response ability to make sure that they heal. But I believe that you can inspire their healing journey by pursuing your own, by being a soft space for them to land, by sharing what you're learning about your own trauma and creating space where it is normalized in the context of your relationship. Do I think that someone who is broken can have healthy and successful relationships? Do I think that someone I think that we're all broken in some way, And I think defining what healthy and successful relationships look like in the context of us navigating our various places of brokenness is something that two couples have to be willing to wrestle with. I think that for us we have defined our a healthy and successful relationship not necessarily with it being contingent on either of us being whole twenty four or seven, but rather us taking seriously the moments where our brokenness appears, and doing the work to make sure that we are aware of how our brokenness shows up, and pursuing health and counsel on the best way to navigate the reality of that brokenness in the context of our relationships, what healing do we need, What boundaries do we need? What perspectives do we need to avail ourselves to in order for that to work, and do I just leave his healing in God's end? Absolutely, pray for him, pray with him, pray about him, pray over him, pray under him, pray around him. I certainly think that you should pray about his healing and what it means for you to be married to him in this state. I think the question that we have to be willing to ask ourselves over and over again is, like God, if nothing at all changes, who would I need to become in order to stay in this situation? Who would I need to become? And how does that align with how you see me? And if it doesn't align, then God.

Helped me to.

Inspire an environment for him and for me that best aligns with your vision for our life.

And that is no tall order.

So we're sending you a floating because baby, that's some real rescuing. But he is more than nay you. Somebody has missed me singing. If you're new to this podcast, you haven't missed me. If you're old school to this podcast, you have missed me saying he is more that a bull play worship music in the house, play just have on random podcasts and men who went to therapy, black men or child. What if he ain't black men who went to therapy and then you know, learn things like just create a space where it's normalized. I'm praying for you, friends, I'm praying for all of us as we dare to become power in God in whatever context that looks like. And so Holy Spirit, I just asked that you would fall on our hearts, that you would transform our minds, that you would heal our past and lead us in the direction.

Of our future.

God, I pray for every person on the other side of this prayer that they would come to experience your truth, your path, your play, your ways, and that it would be so undeniably intriguing that they decide it's worth living for worth obeying for worth hurting for worth saying goodbye and stepping away from things that don't serve them. For there is no greater gift than to be in partnership with You and the Earth. And so God, I thank you for Jesus, and thank you for making him who had no sin. All of our sins, all of our weaknesses, all of our limitations. You placed them in his body and nailed it to the cross.

And when he was.

Raised up, free and victorious, we were raised up too, with the ability to become powerful in You, and I thank you God that we are yet tapping into that power and releasing it into the world. Help us to keep digging in Jesus' name. Amen, More incredible interviews coming up. I've been in my bag. Can't wait to show you what I found. Talk to you next week.

Woman Evolve with Sarah Jakes Roberts

In a world of mixed messages, the Woman Evolve Podcast is blending faith with contemporary culture a 
Social links
Follow podcast
Recent clips
Browse 158 clip(s)