Good morning, peeps, and welcome to ook F Daily with Meet your Girl Danielle Moody. Pre recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, it is our holiday week here at wok F Daily, and as we wind down our seven year run on this podcast, I want to revisit some of the most thoughtful conversations that we've had on the incoming regime, and I do I think that it's important sometimes to go backwards in order to see where we are going to be moving forwards. And so in this episode, I sat down with clinical psychologist doctor Susan Lachman to help us understand Trump cult, help understand the mindset of Maga, which you know, at the time of this recording way back in September of twenty twenty three, I thought that it was a fraction of the population. I honestly, I genuinely thought that, you know, it was about thirty percent of the population were caught up in the Maga cult. Color me wrong, because what the election on November fifth showed us is that no, actually, it's nearly fifty percent of the population that see nothing wrong with a man that has been accused of rape of sexual harassment, sees nothing wrong with any of the words that have come out of Donald Trump's own mouth about being able to grab women by the genitals, being able to kill somebody in the middle of Fifth Avenue, calling Mexican's rapists and murders. None of those things mattered except for the price of eggs that he now says. Guess what, he can't actually bring down grocery prices. You know, it's too hard. And as we sit, by the time that you listen to this, the government could have maybe shut down, not even because of Donald Trump, but because of the real president elect, Elon Musk. So we are in it, folks, and in order to really understand how in it we are, we do need to get a sense of what's going on inside of these people's minds. And so that conversation with Suzanne Lachman is coming up next, folks. I am very happy to welcome to OKAF Daily for the very first time, Doctor Suzanne Lachman a celebrated clinical psychologist and an unparalleled voice in the realm of self esteem, relationships and breakups, and as one of the three most read writers at Psychology Today, and also has been featured in the critically acclaimed documentary unfit the psychology of Donald Trump. Doctor Lockman, you know, there's so much, there is so much that I want to dig into with you, because I think that the moment, the years that we've been living inside of for the last seven years, since since Donald Trump came down that escalator, since our political norms were turned on their head, and what many of us believed to be true about America, about democracy have been the challenged is not even the world have been pushed to their breaking point, and for many of us, watching this country be degraded and contorted into a shell of itself is traumatizing, right, And I just think about you know, let's harken back to the images on January twenty one of watching our Capitol building that did not even manage to get to be put under siege in the Civil War, watch plumes of smoke and people climb over buildings, and just the visual of what we saw is trauma. So I just want you to, you know, give us your thoughts on where you see this moment as as psychologists looking at what we've been facing and dealing with as a society for almost a decade at this point.

Good morning, peeps, and welcome to ook F Daily with Meet your Girl Danielle Moody. Pre recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, it is our holiday week here at wok F Daily, and as we wind down our seven year run on this podcast, I want to revisit some of the most thoughtful conversations that we've had on the incoming regime, and I do I think that it's important sometimes to go backwards in order to see where we are going to be moving forwards. And so in this episode, I sat down with clinical psychologist doctor Susan Lachman to help us understand Trump cult, help understand the mindset of Maga, which you know, at the time of this recording way back in September of twenty twenty three, I thought that it was a fraction of the population. I honestly, I genuinely thought that, you know, it was about thirty percent of the population were caught up in the Maga cult. Color me wrong, because what the election on November fifth showed us is that no, actually, it's nearly fifty percent of the population that see nothing wrong with a man that has been accused of rape of sexual harassment, sees nothing wrong with any of the words that have come out of Donald Trump's own mouth about being able to grab women by the genitals, being able to kill somebody in the middle of Fifth Avenue, calling Mexican's rapists and murders. None of those things mattered except for the price of eggs that he now says. Guess what, he can't actually bring down grocery prices. You know, it's too hard. And as we sit, by the time that you listen to this, the government could have maybe shut down, not even because of Donald Trump, but because of the real president elect, Elon Musk. So we are in it, folks, and in order to really understand how in it we are, we do need to get a sense of what's going on inside of these people's minds. And so that conversation with Suzanne Lachman is coming up next, folks. I am very happy to welcome to OKAF Daily for the very first time, Doctor Suzanne Lachman a celebrated clinical psychologist and an unparalleled voice in the realm of self esteem, relationships and breakups, and as one of the three most read writers at Psychology Today, and also has been featured in the critically acclaimed documentary unfit the psychology of Donald Trump. Doctor Lockman, you know, there's so much, there is so much that I want to dig into with you, because I think that the moment, the years that we've been living inside of for the last seven years, since since Donald Trump came down that escalator, since our political norms were turned on their head, and what many of us believed to be true about America, about democracy have been the challenged is not even the world have been pushed to their breaking point, and for many of us, watching this country be degraded and contorted into a shell of itself is traumatizing, right, And I just think about you know, let's harken back to the images on January twenty one of watching our Capitol building that did not even manage to get to be put under siege in the Civil War, watch plumes of smoke and people climb over buildings, and just the visual of what we saw is trauma. So I just want you to, you know, give us your thoughts on where you see this moment as as psychologists looking at what we've been facing and dealing with as a society for almost a decade at this point.

Yes, lots of good points in there, lots of good questions, so many tentacles. So I think given that it is a given that trauma has infiltrated the lives of really any sane per who pays attention to the political landscape who notices the uh horrendous directions that our country has taken, the division, and the hatred. So there are a number One of the ways I think that it is helpful to address trauma is to try to understand the people who are causing it or the people who have gotten swept up in it. So I've spent a good amount of time trying to make sense of what I think are a bunch of types of people that remain to this day Trump supporters, despite all the evidence to the contrary, want there. So I think there's some character traits, and I don't think anyone would disagree. That's pretty obvious, but but they so one of them. The first one is in many you can tell that there is a profound difficulty admitting that they're wrong apologizing There is uh. There are a lot of people out there who see admitting they're wrong or apologizing as a form of weakness right and of reflecting not just the event but their entire character. So to admit they're wrong, to say they're sorry, means that they're weak.

Yes, lots of good points in there, lots of good questions, so many tentacles. So I think given that it is a given that trauma has infiltrated the lives of really any sane per who pays attention to the political landscape who notices the uh horrendous directions that our country has taken, the division, and the hatred. So there are a number One of the ways I think that it is helpful to address trauma is to try to understand the people who are causing it or the people who have gotten swept up in it. So I've spent a good amount of time trying to make sense of what I think are a bunch of types of people that remain to this day Trump supporters, despite all the evidence to the contrary, want there. So I think there's some character traits, and I don't think anyone would disagree. That's pretty obvious, but but they so one of them. The first one is in many you can tell that there is a profound difficulty admitting that they're wrong apologizing There is uh. There are a lot of people out there who see admitting they're wrong or apologizing as a form of weakness right and of reflecting not just the event but their entire character. So to admit they're wrong, to say they're sorry, means that they're weak.

So I'm we're just just you know, as I'm thinking about that, right, because obviously the first person that comes to mind is Donald Trump, right, his inability to be able to acknowledge wrongdoing at all, which, frankly, as a elected official, you want the characteristic to be able to own up to your mistakes, right when you think about what the president signified for it prior to Donald Trump was in many ways a moral leader as well, right, not just a not ideally not just a political leader, but a moral leader, somebody that can provide example, right of compromise, of diplomacy, of all of these things. And so when you see these characteristics, is it that because they have been modeled doctor Lackman for so many years in such a bad way that people then have begun to mimic or was this Laten's it always there?

So I'm we're just just you know, as I'm thinking about that, right, because obviously the first person that comes to mind is Donald Trump, right, his inability to be able to acknowledge wrongdoing at all, which, frankly, as a elected official, you want the characteristic to be able to own up to your mistakes, right when you think about what the president signified for it prior to Donald Trump was in many ways a moral leader as well, right, not just a not ideally not just a political leader, but a moral leader, somebody that can provide example, right of compromise, of diplomacy, of all of these things. And so when you see these characteristics, is it that because they have been modeled doctor Lackman for so many years in such a bad way that people then have begun to mimic or was this Laten's it always there?

There are when oftentimes when traumatized, it's because aspects of earlier unresolved trauma is brought up again. And there are many people through time, if you think back about it, who should have apologized, who should have acknowledged they were wrong, about something and just didn't and remained righteous and to the end whatever that was. So I really think it's an embedded characteristic in a lot of people. Does it. Is it nature and nurture? Probably that would probably take away too much time for us to parse out right, But you kind of you're helping me springboard into another area, which is Donald Trump appeals to people who have no impulse control or who are barely able to maintain their impulses. Now he is idealized, idolized, deified, et cetera, because he's been walking around exercising his impulses everywhere and not getting There's been no ramifications for his actions. Nothing has caught up to him. Whereas the common everyday person, they have to if they did any of the things grab somebody by the pussy, or any of the things that we know Trump has done, they get in trouble for it. Right, So, here's this guy who's able to do all of these things that they're not able to to do, that they're barely containing themselves from doing. So they get to live vicariously through him in a way, and it makes him rise above. There's no consequences, or there have been no consequences, and he's continuing to find ways to make it appear to those people who are very willing to believe because they don't want to be wrong or they don't know how to be wrong. I mean, there's so many people in Congress that applies to you know, Matt Gates comes willing to as somebody who, in your wildest dreams, would never admit he was wrong, even Kevin McCarthy. They'll just talk over themselves instead. Yeah, and it's maddening. So there's these these two sub groups that are intertwined as well, but we can also sort of see them differently. Then there are people who have a much higher threshold for abusive talk, for being insulted, for dishing out insult, for being bullies, for calling somebody crooked whatever, or name call, the kind of name calling, that kind of childish. It comes along with impulsivity. Way that we've seen him conduct himself to them, that's sort of like, oh, that's familiar to me. There's something comforting about that he's normalizing what I didn't always I thought was bad or people told me was bad. But look at this, I can get on board with this.

There are when oftentimes when traumatized, it's because aspects of earlier unresolved trauma is brought up again. And there are many people through time, if you think back about it, who should have apologized, who should have acknowledged they were wrong, about something and just didn't and remained righteous and to the end whatever that was. So I really think it's an embedded characteristic in a lot of people. Does it. Is it nature and nurture? Probably that would probably take away too much time for us to parse out right, But you kind of you're helping me springboard into another area, which is Donald Trump appeals to people who have no impulse control or who are barely able to maintain their impulses. Now he is idealized, idolized, deified, et cetera, because he's been walking around exercising his impulses everywhere and not getting There's been no ramifications for his actions. Nothing has caught up to him. Whereas the common everyday person, they have to if they did any of the things grab somebody by the pussy, or any of the things that we know Trump has done, they get in trouble for it. Right, So, here's this guy who's able to do all of these things that they're not able to to do, that they're barely containing themselves from doing. So they get to live vicariously through him in a way, and it makes him rise above. There's no consequences, or there have been no consequences, and he's continuing to find ways to make it appear to those people who are very willing to believe because they don't want to be wrong or they don't know how to be wrong. I mean, there's so many people in Congress that applies to you know, Matt Gates comes willing to as somebody who, in your wildest dreams, would never admit he was wrong, even Kevin McCarthy. They'll just talk over themselves instead. Yeah, and it's maddening. So there's these these two sub groups that are intertwined as well, but we can also sort of see them differently. Then there are people who have a much higher threshold for abusive talk, for being insulted, for dishing out insult, for being bullies, for calling somebody crooked whatever, or name call, the kind of name calling, that kind of childish. It comes along with impulsivity. Way that we've seen him conduct himself to them, that's sort of like, oh, that's familiar to me. There's something comforting about that he's normalizing what I didn't always I thought was bad or people told me was bad. But look at this, I can get on board with this.

This is how I talk the way that I have talked about it on this show and others is almost this perpetual adolescence where Donald Trump, right and his followers have never had to grow up. Right. It is they've never had to grow up because they've never had to tap. Because part of adulthood is taking responsibility, right, and when you have never been forced to take responsibility for any of your actions, or or you're not able, so tell me the difference. Tell me the difference of not being able to take responsibility for your actions and choosing not to take responsibility for your actions.

This is how I talk the way that I have talked about it on this show and others is almost this perpetual adolescence where Donald Trump, right and his followers have never had to grow up. Right. It is they've never had to grow up because they've never had to tap. Because part of adulthood is taking responsibility, right, and when you have never been forced to take responsibility for any of your actions, or or you're not able, so tell me the difference. Tell me the difference of not being able to take responsibility for your actions and choosing not to take responsibility for your actions.

Good question. People who are choosing not to take responsibility of their actions are aware that there are sinking shift. I mean if we if we make it specific to Trump, but at this point they don't think that there's any other recourse. They may. I think Kevin McCarthy is a good example of this, because I think that he knows that he's this is a clusterfuck that he's gotten himself into. But will he ever admit it? No, So do I think there are I think there are people out there who follow Trump who are aware that in order to continue to follow him, they have to shirk their responsibilities. They have to decide that they're not going to be accountable to anyone. They're going to put themselves first. And there are others who intellectually may not or definitely don't have the capacity to even understand that. They haven't grown up, whether it be. We see a lot of people like that that still go to the rallies. There they have no clue what's going on in the world, they have no answers to questions, yet there they follow Trump. It's an and you know, probably I would imagine a lot of them have been in trouble with the law at some point, or barely escaped being in trouble with the law, or perpetually on the edge. So I don't know if I'm answering your question, but I do think there are people out there that kind of consciously know that, no matter who's following him, you have to be shirking your responsibilities. You cannot be a conscious person with UH, with a moral and ethical middle UH or time out it's a better word for that, like internal compass. Yeah, with UH, a moral compass, who wouldn't recognize that there's something seriously wrong here?

Good question. People who are choosing not to take responsibility of their actions are aware that there are sinking shift. I mean if we if we make it specific to Trump, but at this point they don't think that there's any other recourse. They may. I think Kevin McCarthy is a good example of this, because I think that he knows that he's this is a clusterfuck that he's gotten himself into. But will he ever admit it? No, So do I think there are I think there are people out there who follow Trump who are aware that in order to continue to follow him, they have to shirk their responsibilities. They have to decide that they're not going to be accountable to anyone. They're going to put themselves first. And there are others who intellectually may not or definitely don't have the capacity to even understand that. They haven't grown up, whether it be. We see a lot of people like that that still go to the rallies. There they have no clue what's going on in the world, they have no answers to questions, yet there they follow Trump. It's an and you know, probably I would imagine a lot of them have been in trouble with the law at some point, or barely escaped being in trouble with the law, or perpetually on the edge. So I don't know if I'm answering your question, but I do think there are people out there that kind of consciously know that, no matter who's following him, you have to be shirking your responsibilities. You cannot be a conscious person with UH, with a moral and ethical middle UH or time out it's a better word for that, like internal compass. Yeah, with UH, a moral compass, who wouldn't recognize that there's something seriously wrong here?

So then what is that? What does that say? Though? Then, because we're looking right when we're when we're thinking about this because I've I I've interviewed experts on cults right as as also a way to understand, uh, this moment that we're in, this this this this rapture that we that we find ourselves in with Donald Trump, where these people are so enamored that they will give up their own sense of right and wrong law quote unquote and order a moral compass right values in order to follow this character. And I it's but it's it's thirty percent of the population, doctor Lackman. So I'm like, is there are we all just banging our heads against the wall then trying to have this thirty percent try and wake up to reality? What? Yes, yeah, go ahead?

So then what is that? What does that say? Though? Then, because we're looking right when we're when we're thinking about this because I've I I've interviewed experts on cults right as as also a way to understand, uh, this moment that we're in, this this this this rapture that we that we find ourselves in with Donald Trump, where these people are so enamored that they will give up their own sense of right and wrong law quote unquote and order a moral compass right values in order to follow this character. And I it's but it's it's thirty percent of the population, doctor Lackman. So I'm like, is there are we all just banging our heads against the wall then trying to have this thirty percent try and wake up to reality? What? Yes, yeah, go ahead?

We there. I mean I often think about the Titanic when it comes to Trump. And there were people who jumped, and I'd say anyone who maybe voted for him first term but has turned against him. And there are certainly many Republican groups that are anti Trump. They jumped, and others who are just gonna go down with the ship. They know it's heading for the iceberg, but they're just gonna that's that's what they'll do. They don't really know any other way, and because to hint to them, to many of them, he's he's magical, and he's managed to get out of circumstances so often himself. I mean, think about how many people went into the Capitol with the promise that they would be pardoned right that, and especially if if he is still the president and or becomes the president or somehow is both. There's also many, many mentally ill people in that contingent, in that thirty percent. Not to say that there there aren't mentally ill people in the other seventy, but there's less when with with with COVID, it certainly heightened and kind of pressurized a lot of mental illness that may have been more latent exactly, and venom and hatred and all these other emotions. And since a good portion of those groups that we're describing don't have impulse control, I mean, even if we think about how many Republicans in particular are are found to be pedophiles are it's it's it's insane, the lack of impulse control, and it's it's it's really that that kind of in many ways separates them from the rest of us. Uh, even if they know, they're not controlling their impulses. Again, he's giving them an excuse.

We there. I mean I often think about the Titanic when it comes to Trump. And there were people who jumped, and I'd say anyone who maybe voted for him first term but has turned against him. And there are certainly many Republican groups that are anti Trump. They jumped, and others who are just gonna go down with the ship. They know it's heading for the iceberg, but they're just gonna that's that's what they'll do. They don't really know any other way, and because to hint to them, to many of them, he's he's magical, and he's managed to get out of circumstances so often himself. I mean, think about how many people went into the Capitol with the promise that they would be pardoned right that, and especially if if he is still the president and or becomes the president or somehow is both. There's also many, many mentally ill people in that contingent, in that thirty percent. Not to say that there there aren't mentally ill people in the other seventy, but there's less when with with with COVID, it certainly heightened and kind of pressurized a lot of mental illness that may have been more latent exactly, and venom and hatred and all these other emotions. And since a good portion of those groups that we're describing don't have impulse control, I mean, even if we think about how many Republicans in particular are are found to be pedophiles are it's it's it's insane, the lack of impulse control, and it's it's it's really that that kind of in many ways separates them from the rest of us. Uh, even if they know, they're not controlling their impulses. Again, he's giving them an excuse.

Right, He's giving he's giving them carte blanche.

Right, He's giving he's giving them carte blanche.

You know, he's normalizing it, right, uh right? Yeah, So that that's those are big issues among Trump's supporters. And and this other one that I'm describing to just a threshold for abuse, the way he speaks to other people, the way that uh he speaks down to women, objectifies them. There's a Trump there's a lot of people out there like that, and unfortunately a lot of women who are used to being treated that way.

You know, he's normalizing it, right, uh right? Yeah, So that that's those are big issues among Trump's supporters. And and this other one that I'm describing to just a threshold for abuse, the way he speaks to other people, the way that uh he speaks down to women, objectifies them. There's a Trump there's a lot of people out there like that, and unfortunately a lot of women who are used to being treated that way.

I mean, there were there were women that wore t shirts to his rally that said you can grab me anytime, like it, and and and watching that and saying what Right, when you see the fan art of Donald Trump, their image of him is that of of you know, eighties Rocky Balboa. Right. They draw him and they paint him as this muscular feure and I'm just like, what are you actually looking at? Because it's so distorted from reality. And I you know, I understand, I guess that it is important to understand the psychology of the people that follow Trump, Yes, but I also find myself and with a couple of minutes that we have left. I want you to be able to weigh in on the trauma that is being inflicted on the rest of us and how we are to manage and move and move through that, because again, I don't think that we have paused long enough to reflect the damage that has been done emotionally, spiritually, physically over the last seven years.

I mean, there were there were women that wore t shirts to his rally that said you can grab me anytime, like it, and and and watching that and saying what Right, when you see the fan art of Donald Trump, their image of him is that of of you know, eighties Rocky Balboa. Right. They draw him and they paint him as this muscular feure and I'm just like, what are you actually looking at? Because it's so distorted from reality. And I you know, I understand, I guess that it is important to understand the psychology of the people that follow Trump, Yes, but I also find myself and with a couple of minutes that we have left. I want you to be able to weigh in on the trauma that is being inflicted on the rest of us and how we are to manage and move and move through that, because again, I don't think that we have paused long enough to reflect the damage that has been done emotionally, spiritually, physically over the last seven years.

The same can be said for the Holocaust, the same can be said for slavery. When you're in something, you're just in it. There's really no way or no time to no ability to reflect while you're in it. What we're looking for is a way out of it. And I mean, at the if it's thirty percent, so be it. It's not fifty.

The same can be said for the Holocaust, the same can be said for slavery. When you're in something, you're just in it. There's really no way or no time to no ability to reflect while you're in it. What we're looking for is a way out of it. And I mean, at the if it's thirty percent, so be it. It's not fifty.

You said that it's really difficult for people to reflect on what they're currently in, right, and yet I think that in order to manage our way through this, we have to both be actively looking for the exit while trying to, you know, deal with the trauma and the wounds so that we can have the strength to make it to the exit.

You said that it's really difficult for people to reflect on what they're currently in, right, and yet I think that in order to manage our way through this, we have to both be actively looking for the exit while trying to, you know, deal with the trauma and the wounds so that we can have the strength to make it to the exit.

Yeah, do you know? So?

Yeah, do you know? So?

I'm like, so, how how are we how how do we manage to do both?

I'm like, so, how how are we how how do we manage to do both?

And podcasts? Social media? Uh? For as much as of the craziness that's out there. Uh, it's pretty easy. And if you some of the news stations and other places as well, there's a lot of validation for the fact that this is a crazy time and everything about this Trump era is wrong. Uh and and really all you I know that that's significantly harder in Red States. I know what I was going to say. I was going to say that just like little kids when they get really crazy and destructive, it's like it's like they're crying out for someone to contain them. That's what is happening right now. That's what the Republicans are doing with the book banning and the not not chastising people who are neo Nazi and racially motivated and all of that. There, they are literally crying out, whether they know it or not, they are crying out because they cannot handle the control that they have. Wow, that's why it's so crazy out there, and we as sane adults, are going there's nothing that's going to stop us from getting to the polls. And thankfully, I think because of the extent to that, the lengths the Republicans have gone to with with taking away women's rights and messing with civil rights and education, et cetera. It's going to get a lot of other people out there too who might not have otherwise been involved, because this touches losing Roe v. Wade, as evidenced by some of the other some of the elections that we've seen that are if there any indication of what's to come, even in the most conservative states, it's they're they're a cruising for us to take over, and we will, we will, that's our job.

And podcasts? Social media? Uh? For as much as of the craziness that's out there. Uh, it's pretty easy. And if you some of the news stations and other places as well, there's a lot of validation for the fact that this is a crazy time and everything about this Trump era is wrong. Uh and and really all you I know that that's significantly harder in Red States. I know what I was going to say. I was going to say that just like little kids when they get really crazy and destructive, it's like it's like they're crying out for someone to contain them. That's what is happening right now. That's what the Republicans are doing with the book banning and the not not chastising people who are neo Nazi and racially motivated and all of that. There, they are literally crying out, whether they know it or not, they are crying out because they cannot handle the control that they have. Wow, that's why it's so crazy out there, and we as sane adults, are going there's nothing that's going to stop us from getting to the polls. And thankfully, I think because of the extent to that, the lengths the Republicans have gone to with with taking away women's rights and messing with civil rights and education, et cetera. It's going to get a lot of other people out there too who might not have otherwise been involved, because this touches losing Roe v. Wade, as evidenced by some of the other some of the elections that we've seen that are if there any indication of what's to come, even in the most conservative states, it's they're they're a cruising for us to take over, and we will, we will, that's our job.

Well let's let's hope that is the case, because I will say, you know that the word unprecedented is so overused, and the word consequential is so overused. But the fact is that we have been an are at our break at our breaking point, and I think that the next you know, twelve months, you know, or so are really going to be a pressure cooker whether America survives. And I don't even you know, And I guess the last question for you, I'll say, I'll ask is this is, even if democracy comes out the other side of this, does America, how we've understood it, come out the other side of this or are we in a I don't know, a burned down moment. Phoenix rising moment regardless, because so much has been to worched.

Well let's let's hope that is the case, because I will say, you know that the word unprecedented is so overused, and the word consequential is so overused. But the fact is that we have been an are at our break at our breaking point, and I think that the next you know, twelve months, you know, or so are really going to be a pressure cooker whether America survives. And I don't even you know, And I guess the last question for you, I'll say, I'll ask is this is, even if democracy comes out the other side of this, does America, how we've understood it, come out the other side of this or are we in a I don't know, a burned down moment. Phoenix rising moment regardless, because so much has been to worched.

It's safe to say that that's been the case through the years, whether it was a fake war in Iraq after nine to eleven, we can go way back with our history. This is not history repeats itself, and democracy is a journey, it's not a destination, and it's got to change and it's got a shape shift to incorporate the people who are in it. The founding fathers really did not have an appreciation for the level of differences amongst people and what it would mean to incorporate all as equal. And so hopefully there are more and more amendments that are past, but what we are seeing is that there is legal recourse. And so this kind of anger that you're describing, or people being at their wits end, it's there's two types of anger, in my opinion. There's the blamey kind, which you can only get stuck in, like, oh, I can't believe you know that, I can't believe that all these people are still into him, like you know, the stuff that you can't do anything about. And then there's the I am so sick of being sick of this that that I'm not going to crawl under a rock. I'm gonna vote, and I'm gonna get as many other people out there as I can to vote, because the system has not failed us. There We've have called constitutional crises a couple of times, but here we are and there's ninety one counts against him. Proud boys are being thrown in jail. The problem is the wheels of justice grind slowly, so it's a matter of being patient. But the more patient you are, the more relief you will find. It certainly will not detract from all the pain and suffering that people have gone through, but to feel be able to feel safer in our homes, in our neighborhoods, in our own skin, that's that's the goal. So yeah, that's what we all have to move towards. Don't get mad, get even.

It's safe to say that that's been the case through the years, whether it was a fake war in Iraq after nine to eleven, we can go way back with our history. This is not history repeats itself, and democracy is a journey, it's not a destination, and it's got to change and it's got a shape shift to incorporate the people who are in it. The founding fathers really did not have an appreciation for the level of differences amongst people and what it would mean to incorporate all as equal. And so hopefully there are more and more amendments that are past, but what we are seeing is that there is legal recourse. And so this kind of anger that you're describing, or people being at their wits end, it's there's two types of anger, in my opinion. There's the blamey kind, which you can only get stuck in, like, oh, I can't believe you know that, I can't believe that all these people are still into him, like you know, the stuff that you can't do anything about. And then there's the I am so sick of being sick of this that that I'm not going to crawl under a rock. I'm gonna vote, and I'm gonna get as many other people out there as I can to vote, because the system has not failed us. There We've have called constitutional crises a couple of times, but here we are and there's ninety one counts against him. Proud boys are being thrown in jail. The problem is the wheels of justice grind slowly, so it's a matter of being patient. But the more patient you are, the more relief you will find. It certainly will not detract from all the pain and suffering that people have gone through, but to feel be able to feel safer in our homes, in our neighborhoods, in our own skin, that's that's the goal. So yeah, that's what we all have to move towards. Don't get mad, get even.

Yeah, Doctor Lachman, I appreciate you so much for making the time to join Woke app a lot to reflect on and to and to think about, but definitely figuring out a way to best channel rage and grief in this time is definitely what I spend a lot of time talking about on this show. So I appreciate you. That is it for me to day dear friends on woke f as always, Power to the people and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.

Yeah, Doctor Lachman, I appreciate you so much for making the time to join Woke app a lot to reflect on and to and to think about, but definitely figuring out a way to best channel rage and grief in this time is definitely what I spend a lot of time talking about on this show. So I appreciate you. That is it for me to day dear friends on woke f as always, Power to the people and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.