This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.

This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.

So when Eric asks how much does something like that cost? He follows up with, you know, five hundred thousand? Is that sound about right? And Gil says, yeah, I think five hundred thousand would do it.

So when Eric asks how much does something like that cost? He follows up with, you know, five hundred thousand? Is that sound about right? And Gil says, yeah, I think five hundred thousand would do it.

I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor in Austin, Texas. I'm also the co host of the podcast Buried Bones on Exactly Right, and throughout my career, research for my many audio and book projects has taken me around the world. On Wicked Words, I sit down with the people I've met along the way, amazing writers, journalists, filmmakers, and podcasters who have investigated and reported on notorious true crime cases. This is about what the choices writers make, both good and bad, and it's a deep dive into the unpublished details behind their stories. For this week's episode, we traveled to my hometown of Austin, Texas. An iconic local business is embroiled in a murder for higher case that attracts national attention. Why did Eric mand hire someone to kill two people? Katie Vine from Texas Monthly tells me about her podcast, The Problem with Eric. Well, let's talk about this story. First of all, how did you get roped into doing this story? Did you bring it to the folks at Texas Monthly or was it pitched to you?

I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor in Austin, Texas. I'm also the co host of the podcast Buried Bones on Exactly Right, and throughout my career, research for my many audio and book projects has taken me around the world. On Wicked Words, I sit down with the people I've met along the way, amazing writers, journalists, filmmakers, and podcasters who have investigated and reported on notorious true crime cases. This is about what the choices writers make, both good and bad, and it's a deep dive into the unpublished details behind their stories. For this week's episode, we traveled to my hometown of Austin, Texas. An iconic local business is embroiled in a murder for higher case that attracts national attention. Why did Eric mand hire someone to kill two people? Katie Vine from Texas Monthly tells me about her podcast, The Problem with Eric. Well, let's talk about this story. First of all, how did you get roped into doing this story? Did you bring it to the folks at Texas Monthly or was it pitched to you?

Now, we were lucky enough at Texas Monthly that Anna Worrel, who's a freelance podcast producer, came to us with this story. She's an Austin native and was working in the film world out in Los Angeles and her dad kept sending her updates on this case, sent her clippings and stuff, and so she got interested and brought it to us, and I'm really glad that she did. You know, some of the folks in the podcast studio brought it to me and I think a week later we were on a plane to Nashville, shaking hands in the airport. Hi, I'm going to be basically living with you for the next three weeks.

Now, we were lucky enough at Texas Monthly that Anna Worrel, who's a freelance podcast producer, came to us with this story. She's an Austin native and was working in the film world out in Los Angeles and her dad kept sending her updates on this case, sent her clippings and stuff, and so she got interested and brought it to us, and I'm really glad that she did. You know, some of the folks in the podcast studio brought it to me and I think a week later we were on a plane to Nashville, shaking hands in the airport. Hi, I'm going to be basically living with you for the next three weeks.

Wow.

Wow.

We've had several Texas Monthly podcasts featured on Wicked Words, but I always feel like, you know, they're Texas stories. I always feel like they're small towns. But this is not this is where we are, this isn't Austin. So before we get into the story, is it different working in a bigger city have a different feel than maybe like a more small town story.

We've had several Texas Monthly podcasts featured on Wicked Words, but I always feel like, you know, they're Texas stories. I always feel like they're small towns. But this is not this is where we are, this isn't Austin. So before we get into the story, is it different working in a bigger city have a different feel than maybe like a more small town story.

Yes, although you can kind of find the slice of the big city that is basically a small town. And so while the crime stars that I've done in small towns, you are looking for that person who knows everybody to introduce you around. We didn't have that necessary here. But we could find people who were in Eric Mond's world, which is its own little universe, if that makes sense. Yeah, So like the Austin Country club and you know, the world of car dealerships, those are little worlds that we could tap into and let them explain the culture in which he'd grown up.

Yes, although you can kind of find the slice of the big city that is basically a small town. And so while the crime stars that I've done in small towns, you are looking for that person who knows everybody to introduce you around. We didn't have that necessary here. But we could find people who were in Eric Mond's world, which is its own little universe, if that makes sense. Yeah, So like the Austin Country club and you know, the world of car dealerships, those are little worlds that we could tap into and let them explain the culture in which he'd grown up.

Let's just start from the beginning with the dealership. It's Charles Montyota, which I have heard about I feel like my entire life. I don't know if that's true, but it's an institution, a car dealership here in Austin. Tell me about the origin of that car dealership, since there's so much money involved, and then we'll get into a little bit about how Eric kind of grew up and you know, this must have shaped some of the decisions that he made. But tell me about the car dealership first.

Let's just start from the beginning with the dealership. It's Charles Montyota, which I have heard about I feel like my entire life. I don't know if that's true, but it's an institution, a car dealership here in Austin. Tell me about the origin of that car dealership, since there's so much money involved, and then we'll get into a little bit about how Eric kind of grew up and you know, this must have shaped some of the decisions that he made. But tell me about the car dealership first.

Sure, the Mond name has it definitely been blasted on TV and radio ads in Central Texas for decades. Eric Mond's grandpa, Charles Moond, founded the first Mond dealership in nineteen fifty seven, and over the years, that company, as you say, became this empire, the total Loston institution. It grew over the decades to include Volkswagen and eventually Toyota. As a grandson. Then Eric is one of the heirs to the empire with forty million dollars, high profile enough that anyone could google him and find out that he's got money.

Sure, the Mond name has it definitely been blasted on TV and radio ads in Central Texas for decades. Eric Mond's grandpa, Charles Moond, founded the first Mond dealership in nineteen fifty seven, and over the years, that company, as you say, became this empire, the total Loston institution. It grew over the decades to include Volkswagen and eventually Toyota. As a grandson. Then Eric is one of the heirs to the empire with forty million dollars, high profile enough that anyone could google him and find out that he's got money.

So we have Charlesmond, and this is a huge empire. And is Eric what is he like? What's the impression you get from him? Is he working in the dealership or is he sort of the playboy kind of guy.

So we have Charlesmond, and this is a huge empire. And is Eric what is he like? What's the impression you get from him? Is he working in the dealership or is he sort of the playboy kind of guy.

I don't know that he was a playboy necessarily, but he was married to a former dealership office worker. They'd raised two kids. They had a giant mansion next to the golf course at the country club. He had a close group of friends who he played golf with all the time. One guy who we talked to, who he worked with at the Volkswagen dealership, said that he basically would sit around and dip snuff and make night comments like he just you don't get the impression from talking to the people who we were able to talk to that he was a terrifically hard worker or had a ton of insight into the dealership itself, as his granddad certainly did. I mean, people talk about Charles Mont his granddad, as if he were sort of legendary figure who'd come from really nothing in East Texas and got to Austin and built this from scratch. That's sort of who Eric is. He's sort of living in the shadow of somebody who was able to have the rags to riches legacy, and he's just sort of like kid who's born at the Silver Spoon.

I don't know that he was a playboy necessarily, but he was married to a former dealership office worker. They'd raised two kids. They had a giant mansion next to the golf course at the country club. He had a close group of friends who he played golf with all the time. One guy who we talked to, who he worked with at the Volkswagen dealership, said that he basically would sit around and dip snuff and make night comments like he just you don't get the impression from talking to the people who we were able to talk to that he was a terrifically hard worker or had a ton of insight into the dealership itself, as his granddad certainly did. I mean, people talk about Charles Mont his granddad, as if he were sort of legendary figure who'd come from really nothing in East Texas and got to Austin and built this from scratch. That's sort of who Eric is. He's sort of living in the shadow of somebody who was able to have the rags to riches legacy, and he's just sort of like kid who's born at the Silver Spoon.

Was Charles Mond alive when Eric was growing up? Oh yeah, okay, So were they close? I mean, how did they view each other? Do you know?

Was Charles Mond alive when Eric was growing up? Oh yeah, okay, So were they close? I mean, how did they view each other? Do you know?

I don't know what the relationship was between Eric and Charles Moond. I only know the relationship between Dougmond was Eric's father, and Charles Wond because there's a story that we were told over and over again about a knife fight had occurred at the Austin Gundry Club. Who between father and son? So Charles Wond I don't know who pulled the knife first, what kind of knife it was, what it was about. But a lot of people said, oh, yeah, did you hear about the knife fight?

I don't know what the relationship was between Eric and Charles Moond. I only know the relationship between Dougmond was Eric's father, and Charles Wond because there's a story that we were told over and over again about a knife fight had occurred at the Austin Gundry Club. Who between father and son? So Charles Wond I don't know who pulled the knife first, what kind of knife it was, what it was about. But a lot of people said, oh, yeah, did you hear about the knife fight?

Do we know anything about Doug and Eric and how they got along?

Do we know anything about Doug and Eric and how they got along?

Very tight? Doug and Eric were tight.

Very tight? Doug and Eric were tight.

Okay, so you all reached out to basically, it sounds like on his side as many people as possible, with the exception of the kids. You tried the wife. Is the wife around?

Okay, so you all reached out to basically, it sounds like on his side as many people as possible, with the exception of the kids. You tried the wife. Is the wife around?

Oh sure, yeah, that was a no go.

Oh sure, yeah, that was a no go.

Yeah, nobody wanted to participate. Yeah, but you have to try. I meanjournalists, you have to try. So when we start moving through this story, Eric sounds lazy and not ambitious. Does he seem like a good father, good husband? Do you have any impression about that.

Yeah, nobody wanted to participate. Yeah, but you have to try. I meanjournalists, you have to try. So when we start moving through this story, Eric sounds lazy and not ambitious. Does he seem like a good father, good husband? Do you have any impression about that.

By March of twenty twenty, when the main events of this story occur, Eric and his wife are already on the brink of a divorce. So, you know, I think if she didn't have suspicions then that he was having, you know, affairs or seeing escorts, she certainly knew it a little later because he had Charlie Sheen's assistant, who'd become a someone who kind of was hanging around the dealership. He had him forge a light detector, saying that Eric wasn't being unfaithful. So you make make of that, would you will?

By March of twenty twenty, when the main events of this story occur, Eric and his wife are already on the brink of a divorce. So, you know, I think if she didn't have suspicions then that he was having, you know, affairs or seeing escorts, she certainly knew it a little later because he had Charlie Sheen's assistant, who'd become a someone who kind of was hanging around the dealership. He had him forge a light detector, saying that Eric wasn't being unfaithful. So you make make of that, would you will?

Okay, so he is a philanderer. It sounds like she wants to divorce him. When does this pivotal affair come in? That is the crux of this whole story. It sounds like, what do we know about what happens with that march?

Okay, so he is a philanderer. It sounds like she wants to divorce him. When does this pivotal affair come in? That is the crux of this whole story. It sounds like, what do we know about what happens with that march?

Maybe it's maybe it's late February of twenty twenty. Eric is going to go to Nashville, where his son is in college, and during that visit, he texts an escort whom he's seen once before. They seemed familiar with each other according to the texts, and they set up a night to meet, and all the text evidence shows they did meet, and then he made arrangements with another escort for the following night. I did not find evidence whether or not that actually happened, but he was trying to at least set up a date with a separate escort. Initially, that was that, and he came back to Austin and figured everything was fine.

Maybe it's maybe it's late February of twenty twenty. Eric is going to go to Nashville, where his son is in college, and during that visit, he texts an escort whom he's seen once before. They seemed familiar with each other according to the texts, and they set up a night to meet, and all the text evidence shows they did meet, and then he made arrangements with another escort for the following night. I did not find evidence whether or not that actually happened, but he was trying to at least set up a date with a separate escort. Initially, that was that, and he came back to Austin and figured everything was fine.

So this was not unusual for him hiring escorts. I mean, do you get that impression?

So this was not unusual for him hiring escorts. I mean, do you get that impression?

I don't know. I can only say that he definitely had seen this particular escort at least once before. Leila Loved was the name that she used. Her real name was Holly Williams.

I don't know. I can only say that he definitely had seen this particular escort at least once before. Leila Loved was the name that she used. Her real name was Holly Williams.

So he returns to Austin after seeing his kid at college. And you said, this was about late February, So we are on the cusp of the pandemic right there.

So he returns to Austin after seeing his kid at college. And you said, this was about late February, So we are on the cusp of the pandemic right there.

You're coming right up to the edge of the pandemic.

You're coming right up to the edge of the pandemic.

Yeah, yeah, maybe this was like New York things happening in New York at this point. And then okay, and the pandemic hits. When is the next incident that happens? And I know that it involves Holly. What happens next? This man is on the edge. He's a hiring escorts, but he's on the edge. He's trying to get a divorce. He's got a lot of money. First of all, before you answer that, what is the divorce going to be? Like? Is she going to get a lot of money out of him? Because of his money?

Yeah, yeah, maybe this was like New York things happening in New York at this point. And then okay, and the pandemic hits. When is the next incident that happens? And I know that it involves Holly. What happens next? This man is on the edge. He's a hiring escorts, but he's on the edge. He's trying to get a divorce. He's got a lot of money. First of all, before you answer that, what is the divorce going to be? Like? Is she going to get a lot of money out of him? Because of his money?

This has always been something that has confused me because apparently they had a prenup and according to testimony from his attorney who wrote up the prenup, that was a as I guess he would say, a very good prenup, and so he wasn't really in danger of losing a lot of money in that way. I think it was about his motivation was not financial necessarily. The next thing that happens is Holly Williams. It turns out as a boyfriend. The boyfriend is this nanke you redhead named Bill Landway from the suburbs of Nashville. They started going to DM parties a lot together and they got very close, and then he found out she was in escort. I guess he didn't know that rightway, he got extremely possessive and jealous. Also wasn't making a lot of money. It sounds like at the time he was delivering Amazon packages a little bad, and he was dealing cards for high end poker games, but not really anything steady. And he started to get a hold of her phone when she wasn't around, and digging up her client list, and in one case he found a Vanderbilt radiologist whom he threatened. He didn't extort the radiologist, he was just threatening him and said, you know, if you see Hollywood's again and I'll tell your wife. He also found Eric's number and he must have done enough googling. Doesn't take much to figure out that Eric Land has a lot of money. This time he started asking for money. I don't know if there were others, if there were others that didn't come into evidence in the.

This has always been something that has confused me because apparently they had a prenup and according to testimony from his attorney who wrote up the prenup, that was a as I guess he would say, a very good prenup, and so he wasn't really in danger of losing a lot of money in that way. I think it was about his motivation was not financial necessarily. The next thing that happens is Holly Williams. It turns out as a boyfriend. The boyfriend is this nanke you redhead named Bill Landway from the suburbs of Nashville. They started going to DM parties a lot together and they got very close, and then he found out she was in escort. I guess he didn't know that rightway, he got extremely possessive and jealous. Also wasn't making a lot of money. It sounds like at the time he was delivering Amazon packages a little bad, and he was dealing cards for high end poker games, but not really anything steady. And he started to get a hold of her phone when she wasn't around, and digging up her client list, and in one case he found a Vanderbilt radiologist whom he threatened. He didn't extort the radiologist, he was just threatening him and said, you know, if you see Hollywood's again and I'll tell your wife. He also found Eric's number and he must have done enough googling. Doesn't take much to figure out that Eric Land has a lot of money. This time he started asking for money. I don't know if there were others, if there were others that didn't come into evidence in the.

Trial, but we know of at least those two that Bill Lanway was reaching out to Eric as most people would in this situation, completely breaked out.

Trial, but we know of at least those two that Bill Lanway was reaching out to Eric as most people would in this situation, completely breaked out.

So he doesn't extort money from the radiologist, but he does from Eric. So he makes this decision. And what is he doing? So he's calling Eric and he says, You're going to need to give me money or I'm going to tell everybody that you've hired an escort. Is that pretty much what ends up happening. How much? Which is he demanding twenty five thousand dollars? You would think you would ask for more money.

So he doesn't extort money from the radiologist, but he does from Eric. So he makes this decision. And what is he doing? So he's calling Eric and he says, You're going to need to give me money or I'm going to tell everybody that you've hired an escort. Is that pretty much what ends up happening. How much? Which is he demanding twenty five thousand dollars? You would think you would ask for more money.

Everybody assumes that he mistyped it, but he wrote at one point twenty five hundred, even lower twenty five hundred to make all your problems go away, right, But Eric and the people around Eric testified that twenty five thousand was the number that was being batted around. So on the phone and however else Eric was getting this information, it was clear to him anyway that it was twenty five thousand.

Everybody assumes that he mistyped it, but he wrote at one point twenty five hundred, even lower twenty five hundred to make all your problems go away, right, But Eric and the people around Eric testified that twenty five thousand was the number that was being batted around. So on the phone and however else Eric was getting this information, it was clear to him anyway that it was twenty five thousand.

Now does Bill's girlfriend, the escort Holly, does she know that this is happening.

Now does Bill's girlfriend, the escort Holly, does she know that this is happening.

Or no, There's been no evidence that she knew about any of this.

Or no, There's been no evidence that she knew about any of this.

What are the instructions that Bill has given Eric? Is this like a wire transfer or what's supposed to happen?

What are the instructions that Bill has given Eric? Is this like a wire transfer or what's supposed to happen?

I don't remember what the method was supposed to be. But Eric decides instead of doing that, he talks to one of his colleagues at the dealership, and that guy gets in touch with somebody named Gil Pulled. Gil Paled is a new security worker at the dealership. He claimed to have served in the Masade, the Israeli intelligence agency. He has built like I mean, just like a brick, and so Gil suggested to Eric that he go to the police, but Eric said he didn't want to be embarrassed, and so Gil told him, Okay, I got it.

I don't remember what the method was supposed to be. But Eric decides instead of doing that, he talks to one of his colleagues at the dealership, and that guy gets in touch with somebody named Gil Pulled. Gil Paled is a new security worker at the dealership. He claimed to have served in the Masade, the Israeli intelligence agency. He has built like I mean, just like a brick, and so Gil suggested to Eric that he go to the police, but Eric said he didn't want to be embarrassed, and so Gil told him, Okay, I got it.

I'll take care of it.

I'll take care of it.

He then goes to another guy in Austin, not far from his house. This guy, Brian Brockway, lives nearby, and he said, what I can do for you is, you know, just build this, do a surveillance operation in Nashville and just kind of spoke around. At this point. They just know that it has something to do with Layla love, right, and that's kind of all they have to go on. And so the idea is Brian Brockway will get a little team together and they'll go to Nashville and sniff it out. And that was all that it was supposed to be.

He then goes to another guy in Austin, not far from his house. This guy, Brian Brockway, lives nearby, and he said, what I can do for you is, you know, just build this, do a surveillance operation in Nashville and just kind of spoke around. At this point. They just know that it has something to do with Layla love, right, and that's kind of all they have to go on. And so the idea is Brian Brockway will get a little team together and they'll go to Nashville and sniff it out. And that was all that it was supposed to be.

I feel like there's some weird disconnect with this part of the story because twenty five thousand is not a lot, okay, And then I'm thinking, okay, twenty five thousand. Of course, we've already said this over and over again. He can spend this. This is no big deal. He's getting a divorce, I mean basically, right. I mean he's sort of the relationship is essentially over. He's not trying to save a relationship. He has adult children, he doesn't have little children. Is it really sort of this shame? I know he's very close to his father. You really think he's driven by like the shame the public ridicule of this coming out. Somehow, it just seems so extreme to then hire eventually a hitman to do this.

I feel like there's some weird disconnect with this part of the story because twenty five thousand is not a lot, okay, And then I'm thinking, okay, twenty five thousand. Of course, we've already said this over and over again. He can spend this. This is no big deal. He's getting a divorce, I mean basically, right. I mean he's sort of the relationship is essentially over. He's not trying to save a relationship. He has adult children, he doesn't have little children. Is it really sort of this shame? I know he's very close to his father. You really think he's driven by like the shame the public ridicule of this coming out. Somehow, it just seems so extreme to then hire eventually a hitman to do this.

Well, I think it's important to remember that he didn't go into this hiring a Hitman, right. He just went into it, hiring somebody to look into it, and then it just sort of escalates. I can't say exactly that it got out of his control because he's paid for but he just kind of kept signing off on you want to do what sure, go do that yes, And so the guys on the ground could not seem to get Holly or Bill Landway to respond. They would knock on the door, they would text.

Well, I think it's important to remember that he didn't go into this hiring a Hitman, right. He just went into it, hiring somebody to look into it, and then it just sort of escalates. I can't say exactly that it got out of his control because he's paid for but he just kind of kept signing off on you want to do what sure, go do that yes, And so the guys on the ground could not seem to get Holly or Bill Landway to respond. They would knock on the door, they would text.

You know.

You know.

The guys who landed were very experienced. Brian Brockway had deployed all of the world conducting special ops on behalf of the US Marines, and he hired this kid, Adam, a twenty nine year old former marine. There were two other guys who were involved, one whom we call Red because he has had to keep his name out of the press because he's still concerned that some of these guys and their friends may come after him. And then there's a guy named Tony Rapinsky who landed got one whiff of the situation and was like, I'm out of here.

The guys who landed were very experienced. Brian Brockway had deployed all of the world conducting special ops on behalf of the US Marines, and he hired this kid, Adam, a twenty nine year old former marine. There were two other guys who were involved, one whom we call Red because he has had to keep his name out of the press because he's still concerned that some of these guys and their friends may come after him. And then there's a guy named Tony Rapinsky who landed got one whiff of the situation and was like, I'm out of here.

Wow, this is all bad.

Wow, this is all bad.

This can only go in bad directions based on the things that I'm seeing. In fact, like when he sat down to give his testimony. I remember one of the defense attorneys. Eric's defense attorney asked, you know, what were you most afraid of when you landed in Nashville, and he just said stupidity and that basically said it all. Like I can really testify. After that, it was kind of like, Okay, yeah, that loves it up.

This can only go in bad directions based on the things that I'm seeing. In fact, like when he sat down to give his testimony. I remember one of the defense attorneys. Eric's defense attorney asked, you know, what were you most afraid of when you landed in Nashville, and he just said stupidity and that basically said it all. Like I can really testify. After that, it was kind of like, Okay, yeah, that loves it up.

But I mean, the more people you involved in this conspiracy, the bigger. Well, of course, I'm thinking this is way more than twenty five thousand. I'm assuming this is really he's going to be on the whole as we're going along. But at the same time, I'm thinking, you know, the more people that you're adding in, the riskier it is. But it sounds like he really was just scared, right.

But I mean, the more people you involved in this conspiracy, the bigger. Well, of course, I'm thinking this is way more than twenty five thousand. I'm assuming this is really he's going to be on the whole as we're going along. But at the same time, I'm thinking, you know, the more people that you're adding in, the riskier it is. But it sounds like he really was just scared, right.

I think so he was out of his element. If he had dealt with blackmail before, it wasn't this type of black mail, I don't. I mean, I don't have any evidence that he'd ever dealt with it before, but I don't know, certainly not this type, bro, because his reactions are give up a whiff of.

I think so he was out of his element. If he had dealt with blackmail before, it wasn't this type of black mail, I don't. I mean, I don't have any evidence that he'd ever dealt with it before, but I don't know, certainly not this type, bro, because his reactions are give up a whiff of.

Desperation, Yeah, very extreme.

Desperation, Yeah, very extreme.

Adam, who was the youngest, you know, the group, the twenty nine year old, starts making comments about he could get rid of this problem for fifty or sixty. K Red thinks it's a joke at first, but then starts thinking, this kid's loose cannon. He's really immature. Adam goes to Walmart and buys cable tize and burlap, and you know, the rest of the guys are like, what is this kid up to? But then Brian after Red and Tony Rapinsky leave Nashville and it's just Brian and Adam and it's coming to this sort deadline point for Eric. They finally take that idea to Gil Pullett and say, what if we just take.

Adam, who was the youngest, you know, the group, the twenty nine year old, starts making comments about he could get rid of this problem for fifty or sixty. K Red thinks it's a joke at first, but then starts thinking, this kid's loose cannon. He's really immature. Adam goes to Walmart and buys cable tize and burlap, and you know, the rest of the guys are like, what is this kid up to? But then Brian after Red and Tony Rapinsky leave Nashville and it's just Brian and Adam and it's coming to this sort deadline point for Eric. They finally take that idea to Gil Pullett and say, what if we just take.

Them out, both of them. They're talking about Bill and Holly.

Them out, both of them. They're talking about Bill and Holly.

Yeah, at first they talk about just Bill, but then based on something that was so nothing. I mean, I think they claimed that they saw Holly walking around with like a bag from a home depot or office depot or something, and based on just like that said, oh, I think she's spending a lot of money. We don't know if they just wanted to cover their bases, if they wanted to do a thorough job, if they really just needed the money and so they needed kind of to amp up the threat. Whatever the case is, they brought it to Gil. Gil brought it to Eric. It's then I think the evening of March eleventh, Eric is home. His landline rings a voice he doesn't recognize, which is Bill says, you have till eight o'clock tonight or he's gonna tell Eric's wife everything. And then at eight o'clock he texts, it's eight o'clock and I'm going to follow up through with everything and thank you. It's just weird. That night, Gil takes the idea to Eric and he drives up outside of Eric's house and he says, you know, this is what Adam and Brian propose edm and Brian had proposed course to take them out for sixteen k each, so one hundred and twenty total that Eric would be paying out. But that's not what Gila Led told Eric because gilad Led was desperate for cash himself. Gil needed I think he had eleven dollars in the bank at that moment. He had two little kids and was having trouble with his wife's business. He could see, you know, COVID was coming, his wife had a salon. Everything was shutting down. I mean, I think there was just sort of panic in the air. And so when Eric asks how much does something like that cost. He follows up with, you know, five hundred thousand Is that sound about right? And Gil says, yeah, I think five hundred thousand wouldn't do it.

Yeah, at first they talk about just Bill, but then based on something that was so nothing. I mean, I think they claimed that they saw Holly walking around with like a bag from a home depot or office depot or something, and based on just like that said, oh, I think she's spending a lot of money. We don't know if they just wanted to cover their bases, if they wanted to do a thorough job, if they really just needed the money and so they needed kind of to amp up the threat. Whatever the case is, they brought it to Gil. Gil brought it to Eric. It's then I think the evening of March eleventh, Eric is home. His landline rings a voice he doesn't recognize, which is Bill says, you have till eight o'clock tonight or he's gonna tell Eric's wife everything. And then at eight o'clock he texts, it's eight o'clock and I'm going to follow up through with everything and thank you. It's just weird. That night, Gil takes the idea to Eric and he drives up outside of Eric's house and he says, you know, this is what Adam and Brian propose edm and Brian had proposed course to take them out for sixteen k each, so one hundred and twenty total that Eric would be paying out. But that's not what Gila Led told Eric because gilad Led was desperate for cash himself. Gil needed I think he had eleven dollars in the bank at that moment. He had two little kids and was having trouble with his wife's business. He could see, you know, COVID was coming, his wife had a salon. Everything was shutting down. I mean, I think there was just sort of panic in the air. And so when Eric asks how much does something like that cost. He follows up with, you know, five hundred thousand Is that sound about right? And Gil says, yeah, I think five hundred thousand wouldn't do it.

Wow.

Wow.

Did you find out or did it come out during any of the trial. Did you find out if Eric had told anyone else about this in his family other than you know, talking to all these goons. Did his dad know? Did anybody know if they did?

Did you find out or did it come out during any of the trial. Did you find out if Eric had told anyone else about this in his family other than you know, talking to all these goons. Did his dad know? Did anybody know if they did?

That was never revealed in court.

That was never revealed in court.

So tell me how this starts to unfold. Eric says, okay, half a million's fine? And what happens after that? You have all of these players involved, who all sound like goons to me.

So tell me how this starts to unfold. Eric says, okay, half a million's fine? And what happens after that? You have all of these players involved, who all sound like goons to me.

Well again, by this time, it's just Adam and Bryan on the ground. That night, they just decide they're going to surprise Bill and Holly in the parking lot outside of Holly's apartment, which is what they do. They kidnap Holly first, They shoot Bill dead, keep him in the car, then keep her alive in the back seat. One of the special ops guys drives Holly's car with Bill and Holly in it to a site, an off site location, and then the other special ops worker takes a rental car behind Holly's car to follow them as sort of the getaway car.

Well again, by this time, it's just Adam and Bryan on the ground. That night, they just decide they're going to surprise Bill and Holly in the parking lot outside of Holly's apartment, which is what they do. They kidnap Holly first, They shoot Bill dead, keep him in the car, then keep her alive in the back seat. One of the special ops guys drives Holly's car with Bill and Holly in it to a site, an off site location, and then the other special ops worker takes a rental car behind Holly's car to follow them as sort of the getaway car.

And Holly is alive. Does anybody talk about what hery? I'm sure she terrified and has no idea what's happening, but her boyfriend is dead.

And Holly is alive. Does anybody talk about what hery? I'm sure she terrified and has no idea what's happening, but her boyfriend is dead.

We do find out later in undercover recordings that they were possibly surprised. It gets a little confusing, like, on one hand, you hear from gil Paled that yes, it was the plan was always Holly and Bill. But when Brian Brockway is telling the story to Red in an undercover recording that the FBI set up later, he tells read that they were shocked all of a sudden, Oh my god, it's both of them. So now we've got two of them. And they were kind of telling Holly it's fine, it's fine, We're not after you, and then ended up killing her in the back seat just to kind of cover their tracks.

We do find out later in undercover recordings that they were possibly surprised. It gets a little confusing, like, on one hand, you hear from gil Paled that yes, it was the plan was always Holly and Bill. But when Brian Brockway is telling the story to Red in an undercover recording that the FBI set up later, he tells read that they were shocked all of a sudden, Oh my god, it's both of them. So now we've got two of them. And they were kind of telling Holly it's fine, it's fine, We're not after you, and then ended up killing her in the back seat just to kind of cover their tracks.

Where do they end up putting the bodies? So they have these these two adults. Are they driving out of town or what are they doing?

Where do they end up putting the bodies? So they have these these two adults. Are they driving out of town or what are they doing?

They drove kind of where there was a construction site. It's not far from Hollway's apartment. They just drove kind of around the corner where there was this little construction site, and they made it look like Holly's car had kind of just driven down into a ditch to hit a tree. On the first glance, it looked like it could have been just a car crash, except that when you look in the car itself, there's nobody in the driver's seat. I mean, one person is in the back seat and the other person is literally like, I don't know why upside down. Bill was upside down in the passenger seat.

They drove kind of where there was a construction site. It's not far from Hollway's apartment. They just drove kind of around the corner where there was this little construction site, and they made it look like Holly's car had kind of just driven down into a ditch to hit a tree. On the first glance, it looked like it could have been just a car crash, except that when you look in the car itself, there's nobody in the driver's seat. I mean, one person is in the back seat and the other person is literally like, I don't know why upside down. Bill was upside down in the passenger seat.

Wow, And of course they've been shot once you start looking at it. Okay, who makes the discovery of these two bodies.

Wow, And of course they've been shot once you start looking at it. Okay, who makes the discovery of these two bodies.

It was a construction worker who got to the job site the morning of March thirteenth, We spotted Holly's Acura and calls nine to one one. Then the Metro Nashville Police Department starts to investigate, and pretty soon after that they start to put pieces together. Probably because hollyhead recording devices all over her house.

It was a construction worker who got to the job site the morning of March thirteenth, We spotted Holly's Acura and calls nine to one one. Then the Metro Nashville Police Department starts to investigate, and pretty soon after that they start to put pieces together. Probably because hollyhead recording devices all over her house.

What she did.

What she did.

Why Bill Landway had been increasingly abusive and to the point where she had even filed restraining orders against him. I mean it was on again, off again, and so even though he had these instructions, he would kind of still come by and they would make up and it would all be fine. It was complicated that way, And so when the officers went into Holly's apartment, they had all this video, but all you could see from the video as far as the murders are concerned, is you see Holly and Billy in the apartment. Then you can hear everything happening in the parking lot, but you can't see it. But then they rewind the tape and they see these suspicious looking characters, big guys not facing the camera, seemingly intentionally knocking on her door asking to talk. So they feel like, okay, this is probably connected too. Then they release the video to the public and say, hey, anyone know who this guy is. It's sort of a amazing when you hear the tech workers for the investigative units describe the tools that they have. I mean, it's like, you know, picking off the cell towers and trying to figure out, like, well, who set up this address and whose phone is this and all that. And so they were finally able to figure out this involved Eric MOHMD. They still didn't know exactly how it involved ericmand but they were able to get stuff off the cloud and find some messages and things like that, and because then it became multiple states, then it's involved the FBI.

Why Bill Landway had been increasingly abusive and to the point where she had even filed restraining orders against him. I mean it was on again, off again, and so even though he had these instructions, he would kind of still come by and they would make up and it would all be fine. It was complicated that way, And so when the officers went into Holly's apartment, they had all this video, but all you could see from the video as far as the murders are concerned, is you see Holly and Billy in the apartment. Then you can hear everything happening in the parking lot, but you can't see it. But then they rewind the tape and they see these suspicious looking characters, big guys not facing the camera, seemingly intentionally knocking on her door asking to talk. So they feel like, okay, this is probably connected too. Then they release the video to the public and say, hey, anyone know who this guy is. It's sort of a amazing when you hear the tech workers for the investigative units describe the tools that they have. I mean, it's like, you know, picking off the cell towers and trying to figure out, like, well, who set up this address and whose phone is this and all that. And so they were finally able to figure out this involved Eric MOHMD. They still didn't know exactly how it involved ericmand but they were able to get stuff off the cloud and find some messages and things like that, and because then it became multiple states, then it's involved the FBI.

I know this is an odd question, but what is Eric using that you all are able to figure out that he requested Holly one night and then another escort another night. Are the police tracing something to be able to figure out what he had been doing?

I know this is an odd question, but what is Eric using that you all are able to figure out that he requested Holly one night and then another escort another night. Are the police tracing something to be able to figure out what he had been doing?

I think that was P four one one and SLIKSA were two sites that Holly had been using. Their sites coming used with escorts, and so I think it was just going through all of her clients and trying to figure out which numbers matched. The investigators were finally able to get texts between Holly and Bill to illuminate that relationship and conflict, and then they were also able to get all of the texts between Bill and others, and so he was they, you know, by like who is this number? Well, this is this number belongs to some guy in Austin. Why is he texting him for money? I don't understand what's going on here. So then they have to kind of start piecing it out enough that they can make the connection to Gil Paled and then they start getting the bank records and learn that Eric wand transferred one hundred and fifty thousand dollars to Glad Paled the day of the murders, which is significant for investigator. Right, they find a situation report that wrote to Gil talking about the surveillance of Holly and Bill. Point I think the FBI knew really what they were looking at. Hitman for hire resulting in murder is pretty rare. A lot of times it's hit man for hire, but it doesn't get to the point of the actual murders, and this was a rare instance where it did. And so they're kind of working backwards.

I think that was P four one one and SLIKSA were two sites that Holly had been using. Their sites coming used with escorts, and so I think it was just going through all of her clients and trying to figure out which numbers matched. The investigators were finally able to get texts between Holly and Bill to illuminate that relationship and conflict, and then they were also able to get all of the texts between Bill and others, and so he was they, you know, by like who is this number? Well, this is this number belongs to some guy in Austin. Why is he texting him for money? I don't understand what's going on here. So then they have to kind of start piecing it out enough that they can make the connection to Gil Paled and then they start getting the bank records and learn that Eric wand transferred one hundred and fifty thousand dollars to Glad Paled the day of the murders, which is significant for investigator. Right, they find a situation report that wrote to Gil talking about the surveillance of Holly and Bill. Point I think the FBI knew really what they were looking at. Hitman for hire resulting in murder is pretty rare. A lot of times it's hit man for hire, but it doesn't get to the point of the actual murders, and this was a rare instance where it did. And so they're kind of working backwards.

So it's Gill and Adam only is Byron in this at all?

So it's Gill and Adam only is Byron in this at all?

Or no?

Or no?

Yeah? Yeah, so Gil was sort of the middleman, right. It's Brian and Adam were the guys on the ground doing the shooting, and they were never able to clarify who which one of them pulled the trigger or if they both pulled the trigger. At the end of the day, it was tried as a conspiracy, and so it didn't matter.

Yeah? Yeah, so Gil was sort of the middleman, right. It's Brian and Adam were the guys on the ground doing the shooting, and they were never able to clarify who which one of them pulled the trigger or if they both pulled the trigger. At the end of the day, it was tried as a conspiracy, and so it didn't matter.

Once they kill Bill and Hawley and try to stage just as an accident, is there a text or a phone call to Eric confirming that this is done.

Once they kill Bill and Hawley and try to stage just as an accident, is there a text or a phone call to Eric confirming that this is done.

The only way that the investigators knew that Gil and Eric knew is because all their phones suddenly go silent, like Adam dismantles his account, Brian gets rid of his account, All the accounts suddenly disappear.

The only way that the investigators knew that Gil and Eric knew is because all their phones suddenly go silent, like Adam dismantles his account, Brian gets rid of his account, All the accounts suddenly disappear.

How quickly does this case come together after Bill and Holly are discovered.

How quickly does this case come together after Bill and Holly are discovered.

Not very quickly, not very quickly at all. So that was right when COVID hits right March twenty twenty, and they're not able to put anything together until they gets summer of twenty twenty one, when they finally have done enough desk work, you know, searching bank records, phone records, all that kind of jazz, and they figure they need a confidential source whom they can leverage. And Red had just applied for a job that we can't say, but you can guess something that required really high security clearance. And the FBI met him in the interview and told him he needed to start texting Adam and Brian again and set up a ruse as if Red were going to attempt something similar in a similar situation where a guy was being exhorted by a woman and needed to get rid of her, and so he was pretending like he was looking for tips like what did you learn from your Nashville experience? You know, I never really heard what went on? Can you tell me more? And so using that technique, he was able to get them both to talk extensively, even though they both both Adam and Brian started out very nervous. And that was one of the most amazing things to me about doing this as a podcast, And of course it's a standalone story too, But when you can hear the audio of Adam and Brian discussing what they did, things they would have done differently, advice that they give to Red, it's just so chilling. You're just in the room with them, you know, dear a nonchalant it is.

Not very quickly, not very quickly at all. So that was right when COVID hits right March twenty twenty, and they're not able to put anything together until they gets summer of twenty twenty one, when they finally have done enough desk work, you know, searching bank records, phone records, all that kind of jazz, and they figure they need a confidential source whom they can leverage. And Red had just applied for a job that we can't say, but you can guess something that required really high security clearance. And the FBI met him in the interview and told him he needed to start texting Adam and Brian again and set up a ruse as if Red were going to attempt something similar in a similar situation where a guy was being exhorted by a woman and needed to get rid of her, and so he was pretending like he was looking for tips like what did you learn from your Nashville experience? You know, I never really heard what went on? Can you tell me more? And so using that technique, he was able to get them both to talk extensively, even though they both both Adam and Brian started out very nervous. And that was one of the most amazing things to me about doing this as a podcast, And of course it's a standalone story too, But when you can hear the audio of Adam and Brian discussing what they did, things they would have done differently, advice that they give to Red, it's just so chilling. You're just in the room with them, you know, dear a nonchalant it is.

How well did Red know them that well?

How well did Red know them that well?

I mean, he was in the same circles and they knew a lot of people in common, but I don't think naming each other very well before all.

I mean, he was in the same circles and they knew a lot of people in common, but I don't think naming each other very well before all.

This, So you all ended up interviewing Red for this or no.

This, So you all ended up interviewing Red for this or no.

No, I'm hoping after sentencing, I don't think we're going to have many surprises because it's mandatory life or this kind of conviction. But there always appeals, so you know, everybody's kind of waiting. Some of those people who are in with the investigators, and maybe even on in any of the other groups. You know, if there's anybody from Bryan's family or Eric's family, or at a family or even the victims' families who wanted to talk, I think maybe they will wait until sentencing as well.

No, I'm hoping after sentencing, I don't think we're going to have many surprises because it's mandatory life or this kind of conviction. But there always appeals, so you know, everybody's kind of waiting. Some of those people who are in with the investigators, and maybe even on in any of the other groups. You know, if there's anybody from Bryan's family or Eric's family, or at a family or even the victims' families who wanted to talk, I think maybe they will wait until sentencing as well.

Tell me about some of the things that you can recall that were on this undercover wire. Is there anything that was surprising to you?

Tell me about some of the things that you can recall that were on this undercover wire. Is there anything that was surprising to you?

A lot of it was surprising the level of detail that Adam was able to give. Read, you know, make sure use these kinds of gloves, make sure you tape, you know, put two pairs of gloves on, so don't leave any DNA and TAPA shut on it, so on this kind of stuff. Probably shocking to me was Brian saying how he really respected Adam for killing Holly in the backseat because he knows a lot of guys have a bleeding heart and couldn't do that, And that kind of talk was pretty pretty shocking for me.

A lot of it was surprising the level of detail that Adam was able to give. Read, you know, make sure use these kinds of gloves, make sure you tape, you know, put two pairs of gloves on, so don't leave any DNA and TAPA shut on it, so on this kind of stuff. Probably shocking to me was Brian saying how he really respected Adam for killing Holly in the backseat because he knows a lot of guys have a bleeding heart and couldn't do that, And that kind of talk was pretty pretty shocking for me.

And Red handled it well, I'm assuming, I mean, they believed him obviously, so he got them everything that they needed, essentially he did.

And Red handled it well, I'm assuming, I mean, they believed him obviously, so he got them everything that they needed, essentially he did.

And then the FBI grabbed Gil coming off the airplane at the Austin Airport, and put him on the phone with Eric Moond, knowing that Eric was driving up from a hunting trip in South Texas. I think this was December of twenty twenty one, So again, like took a long time to get to this point of starting to arrest anybody, and then everybody's basically arrested on the same day, just after Gil gets Eric on the phone and they record, I records that and Gil tells Eric, you know, we have a problem. The Nashville shooters want an extra twenty five thousand dollars to keep quiet. What should we do? Do you want me to take care of it? And Eric just says, give me a number. That's his response, Not what are you talking about anything like that. Just give me a number, and Gil says one hundred. And Eric says, honestly, I'd rather take care of it permanently than do the twenty five thousand. So it's almost like his idea. He says, I'll just wire it to you, just like last time. Wow, it's a hard thing for him to defend himself. After that, the FBI descends on him pretty quickly, arrests him, pulls him in, and after all that, it's just a matter of going to trial.

And then the FBI grabbed Gil coming off the airplane at the Austin Airport, and put him on the phone with Eric Moond, knowing that Eric was driving up from a hunting trip in South Texas. I think this was December of twenty twenty one, So again, like took a long time to get to this point of starting to arrest anybody, and then everybody's basically arrested on the same day, just after Gil gets Eric on the phone and they record, I records that and Gil tells Eric, you know, we have a problem. The Nashville shooters want an extra twenty five thousand dollars to keep quiet. What should we do? Do you want me to take care of it? And Eric just says, give me a number. That's his response, Not what are you talking about anything like that. Just give me a number, and Gil says one hundred. And Eric says, honestly, I'd rather take care of it permanently than do the twenty five thousand. So it's almost like his idea. He says, I'll just wire it to you, just like last time. Wow, it's a hard thing for him to defend himself. After that, the FBI descends on him pretty quickly, arrests him, pulls him in, and after all that, it's just a matter of going to trial.

Then do they say what Eric's reaction was? I mean, I know that sounds like a silly question, but was he in denial about it or what did he do?

Then do they say what Eric's reaction was? I mean, I know that sounds like a silly question, but was he in denial about it or what did he do?

It was hard to say what his reaction was.

It was hard to say what his reaction was.

We watched the video as the FBI played a recording of the murders from Holly's security camera audio, and they recorded Eric's reaction.

We watched the video as the FBI played a recording of the murders from Holly's security camera audio, and they recorded Eric's reaction.

He shows that he's listening really hard. He keeps saying like kind of I don't know, you know what this is? And and they keep coming back to him with you know exactly what this is?

He shows that he's listening really hard. He keeps saying like kind of I don't know, you know what this is? And and they keep coming back to him with you know exactly what this is?

Does everybody else turn on him? Essentially? I mean, do you get the real real story? Once these guys are all under arrest?

Does everybody else turn on him? Essentially? I mean, do you get the real real story? Once these guys are all under arrest?

Not really really. None of them testified in the trial except for Guilfilett. They said that there might be some Google rooms in his sentencing if you testified, but everybody else said nothing and pled not guilty, which you know, someone explained to me that they would all, of course plead not guilty because it would be sort of notpractice for an attorney to tell your client to plead guilty if you know they're looking at life anyway, so their only chance is to plead not guilty even I says sort of a slam dunk.

Not really really. None of them testified in the trial except for Guilfilett. They said that there might be some Google rooms in his sentencing if you testified, but everybody else said nothing and pled not guilty, which you know, someone explained to me that they would all, of course plead not guilty because it would be sort of notpractice for an attorney to tell your client to plead guilty if you know they're looking at life anyway, so their only chance is to plead not guilty even I says sort of a slam dunk.

Now, what are the chart or just for all these guys because Gil doesn't pull the trigger, he's not even at the scene. He's the middleman who's organizing things. What is he charged with?

Now, what are the chart or just for all these guys because Gil doesn't pull the trigger, he's not even at the scene. He's the middleman who's organizing things. What is he charged with?

So Adam, Brian and Eric were trying who murder for hire? I'm pretty sure that's what Gil was also charged with. Because it's a conspiracy, They're all charged together. And then Adam and Brian were also charged and found guilty of two additional charges, conspiracy to kidnapping and kidnapping with death resulting because they'd taken Holly while she was still alive in the parking lot and then killed her later than they had the extra kidnapping charges.

So Adam, Brian and Eric were trying who murder for hire? I'm pretty sure that's what Gil was also charged with. Because it's a conspiracy, They're all charged together. And then Adam and Brian were also charged and found guilty of two additional charges, conspiracy to kidnapping and kidnapping with death resulting because they'd taken Holly while she was still alive in the parking lot and then killed her later than they had the extra kidnapping charges.

Do we ever see Holly's family or Bill's family through any of this?

Do we ever see Holly's family or Bill's family through any of this?

Not really. Bill's family is pretty complicated. His dad shot his mom or stabbed his mom when he was really little in.

Not really. Bill's family is pretty complicated. His dad shot his mom or stabbed his mom when he was really little in.

Front of him.

Front of him.

But he was raised by other family members who did come to the child but understandably wanted the mood to talk to reporters. And Hollick's family was also grieving and wow, they were in the courtroom, didn't want to interact with.

But he was raised by other family members who did come to the child but understandably wanted the mood to talk to reporters. And Hollick's family was also grieving and wow, they were in the courtroom, didn't want to interact with.

Us what happens with Eric, because he's you know, now kind of the central character here. Has he gone on trial?

Us what happens with Eric, because he's you know, now kind of the central character here. Has he gone on trial?

Yeah, they were all tried together in Nashville and found guilty after I think it was about three weeks testimony and said then the sentencing. Now they're just kind of hanging out in federal prison waiting for where they're going to be permanently and for how long, and so we'll know more about that. I think by the end of the year.

Yeah, they were all tried together in Nashville and found guilty after I think it was about three weeks testimony and said then the sentencing. Now they're just kind of hanging out in federal prison waiting for where they're going to be permanently and for how long, and so we'll know more about that. I think by the end of the year.

Any reaction from his family, Eric's family, his ex wife, or the kids. Was anyone there from his family?

Any reaction from his family, Eric's family, his ex wife, or the kids. Was anyone there from his family?

His family sat in front of us and they were underto you know, they were upset.

His family sat in front of us and they were underto you know, they were upset.

Of course, did they believe it.

Of course, did they believe it.

I don't know. I don't know what they said to each other when they would go back to their hotel in Nashville. We were told by other folks who hang out in Eric's circles that in the days leading up to the jury's decision that the people were kind of split. There were some people who were just thinking like, well, he probably just said take care of it, and somebody misinterpreted that. But I think after all the evidence came out and that got around Austin the opinion shifted a bit, although there are still people who we've talked to who not defend him necessarily, but don't believe that he should go that Eric should go to prison for the rest of his life, because I said, he only did it the one time, and it's not like something that he would probably do again. So there are folks who say things like that or justify it one way or the other. I don't know what Eric's personal reaction is to it. I did get the sense from just watching him in court that he was pretty devastated by the decision. Adam and Brian were totally impossible to read. They had no reaction.

I don't know. I don't know what they said to each other when they would go back to their hotel in Nashville. We were told by other folks who hang out in Eric's circles that in the days leading up to the jury's decision that the people were kind of split. There were some people who were just thinking like, well, he probably just said take care of it, and somebody misinterpreted that. But I think after all the evidence came out and that got around Austin the opinion shifted a bit, although there are still people who we've talked to who not defend him necessarily, but don't believe that he should go that Eric should go to prison for the rest of his life, because I said, he only did it the one time, and it's not like something that he would probably do again. So there are folks who say things like that or justify it one way or the other. I don't know what Eric's personal reaction is to it. I did get the sense from just watching him in court that he was pretty devastated by the decision. Adam and Brian were totally impossible to read. They had no reaction.

What's your feeling about this whole story? I mean, why is this an interesting story to you? Why would you want to spend so much time on this particular story? What does it say?

What's your feeling about this whole story? I mean, why is this an interesting story to you? Why would you want to spend so much time on this particular story? What does it say?

I think there's a lot of talk these days about privilege, and this was a doozy somebody who really didn't see that his actions had any consequences, or that the consequences that it meant for other people weren't any relevant. I, as you know, like generally do convent stories. If I do true crime, I normally steer away from murders. But this one did have some overlap with the con men who I've written about, which is that conman always think they're smarter than everybody else and that the rules are flexible. One guy explained to me, you know, rules are man made, and he too was a man who could make rules. And I think while Eric's not a con man, he did share that philosophy. He kind of just felt like, just pay the money and get it taken care of, and you don't have to get your hands dirty. Also was really intrigued by all of the motivations that were sort of creating this perfect storm in which this was sort of an inevitability. You have the jealous boyfriend who lashes out of his girlfriend's clients, so there's you know he's coming in. You have a middleman who's desperate for cash and sees endless opportunities. Eric Non is basically an ATM machine, right. You have a guy who's sort of Adam, who's sort of fantasized about becoming a hitman his whole life, who now has a perfect opportunity to live out his fantasies. And Eric, a rich guy who wants to keep his secret secret and Holly kind of walks into this storm and it's just got a collateral damage. We've seen a lot of the texts between her and Bill in the week's leading up to this. There's no indication, I mean, she was trying to get rid of him. In fact, she was about to go to the courthouse and give more testimony about things he had done that would put Bill in prison.

I think there's a lot of talk these days about privilege, and this was a doozy somebody who really didn't see that his actions had any consequences, or that the consequences that it meant for other people weren't any relevant. I, as you know, like generally do convent stories. If I do true crime, I normally steer away from murders. But this one did have some overlap with the con men who I've written about, which is that conman always think they're smarter than everybody else and that the rules are flexible. One guy explained to me, you know, rules are man made, and he too was a man who could make rules. And I think while Eric's not a con man, he did share that philosophy. He kind of just felt like, just pay the money and get it taken care of, and you don't have to get your hands dirty. Also was really intrigued by all of the motivations that were sort of creating this perfect storm in which this was sort of an inevitability. You have the jealous boyfriend who lashes out of his girlfriend's clients, so there's you know he's coming in. You have a middleman who's desperate for cash and sees endless opportunities. Eric Non is basically an ATM machine, right. You have a guy who's sort of Adam, who's sort of fantasized about becoming a hitman his whole life, who now has a perfect opportunity to live out his fantasies. And Eric, a rich guy who wants to keep his secret secret and Holly kind of walks into this storm and it's just got a collateral damage. We've seen a lot of the texts between her and Bill in the week's leading up to this. There's no indication, I mean, she was trying to get rid of him. In fact, she was about to go to the courthouse and give more testimony about things he had done that would put Bill in prison.

Wow.

Wow.

I think her exact words were in the in one of the texts you in court, motherfucker.

I think her exact words were in the in one of the texts you in court, motherfucker.

Poor Holly. I mean, a tumultuous existence. It sounds like I mean so ultimately.

Poor Holly. I mean, a tumultuous existence. It sounds like I mean so ultimately.

You know.

You know.

One of the things that I find so confusing about this story is I keep coming back to the twenty five thousand dollars, just what a not a big deal this was. But you know what, Paul Hole's on Barry Bones and I talk about this all the time, where we say, boy, you know, nobody would kill someone over this, and Paul always says, it doesn't matter what you think, it's the perception of that person. And as you keep coming back to, it's not the twenty five thousand for him, it's the you know, humiliation or the Lord knows whatever is in Eric Mohm's mind, but it doesn't matter because that's what he thought was the appropriate reaction. So now he's sitting in jail over twenty five thousand dollars and you know, and murdering two people he barely knew and what he didn't know at all, And that's just awful, awful.

One of the things that I find so confusing about this story is I keep coming back to the twenty five thousand dollars, just what a not a big deal this was. But you know what, Paul Hole's on Barry Bones and I talk about this all the time, where we say, boy, you know, nobody would kill someone over this, and Paul always says, it doesn't matter what you think, it's the perception of that person. And as you keep coming back to, it's not the twenty five thousand for him, it's the you know, humiliation or the Lord knows whatever is in Eric Mohm's mind, but it doesn't matter because that's what he thought was the appropriate reaction. So now he's sitting in jail over twenty five thousand dollars and you know, and murdering two people he barely knew and what he didn't know at all, And that's just awful, awful.

I think it's to me, it's the escalation of things getting out of control and how slippery it gets after a certain point. You know, if you keep saying, yes, let's keep going down this road and yes, and you're panicking, and you can kind of feel this moment approaching and it feels like there is nobody in their right mind around to stop it. Yeah, the only people who could have stopped it left town.

I think it's to me, it's the escalation of things getting out of control and how slippery it gets after a certain point. You know, if you keep saying, yes, let's keep going down this road and yes, and you're panicking, and you can kind of feel this moment approaching and it feels like there is nobody in their right mind around to stop it. Yeah, the only people who could have stopped it left town.

Well, it's normalized. It's being more normalized. The more they talk about the surveillance. It's like stalking, you know, peeping tom. It all escalates into something worse. So what a story. And I will say, I mean, aside from feeling I don't feel as bad for Bill obviously as I do for Holly, but I feel particularly terrible for his eric's adult children and his ex wife. I mean, and I guess his father too. I mean, that must just be really differ. Do you think that this has had any kind of impact on the dealership, which I know people are going to think it's silly, but Charles Monteyute has been around forever. I mean, it's an institution. Did it get any kind of blowback? Do you think?

Well, it's normalized. It's being more normalized. The more they talk about the surveillance. It's like stalking, you know, peeping tom. It all escalates into something worse. So what a story. And I will say, I mean, aside from feeling I don't feel as bad for Bill obviously as I do for Holly, but I feel particularly terrible for his eric's adult children and his ex wife. I mean, and I guess his father too. I mean, that must just be really differ. Do you think that this has had any kind of impact on the dealership, which I know people are going to think it's silly, but Charles Monteyute has been around forever. I mean, it's an institution. Did it get any kind of blowback? Do you think?

Oh? For sure. In the months after the arrests, the Monts had to sell their car business to a fortune three hundred company whoa The amount was undisclosed. But yeah, another dealer, former dealer in town, told us that there's a clause in a lot of these agreements that local dealerships have with the company, and if you get into some kind of jam like this, you're done.

Oh? For sure. In the months after the arrests, the Monts had to sell their car business to a fortune three hundred company whoa The amount was undisclosed. But yeah, another dealer, former dealer in town, told us that there's a clause in a lot of these agreements that local dealerships have with the company, and if you get into some kind of jam like this, you're done.

So that was because of this, I mean that's.

So that was because of this, I mean that's.

The family has not said that, and there's no paperwork to say that, but a dealer who knows family and has enough experience in this that it's definitely something to consider.

The family has not said that, and there's no paperwork to say that, but a dealer who knows family and has enough experience in this that it's definitely something to consider.

Wow, oh boy, what a story. And you know, I mean, I know it was an Austin story, and I know had been kicking around for several years. And you know, something that happens in the middle of the pandemic, which throws so much stuff off and slows investigations, that's amazing.

Wow, oh boy, what a story. And you know, I mean, I know it was an Austin story, and I know had been kicking around for several years. And you know, something that happens in the middle of the pandemic, which throws so much stuff off and slows investigations, that's amazing.

Oh yeah, Well, and if there's a time to you know, sit tight and be quiet, which Eric had to do of course, and then months after the murder it would have been that time, Like, there's no better time to keep from acting suspicious. I mean, who knows, if you know, people see you out and about in the world in the months, in the weeks after something like this, maybe you are rattled or you look you know, look different. But when we started asking around people in Austin, you know, how did his behavior change? The response was it was the pandemic.

Oh yeah, Well, and if there's a time to you know, sit tight and be quiet, which Eric had to do of course, and then months after the murder it would have been that time, Like, there's no better time to keep from acting suspicious. I mean, who knows, if you know, people see you out and about in the world in the months, in the weeks after something like this, maybe you are rattled or you look you know, look different. But when we started asking around people in Austin, you know, how did his behavior change? The response was it was the pandemic.

Yeah, so we all changed.

Yeah, so we all changed.

Yeah, I don't know. He was in his living room like everybody else.

Yeah, I don't know. He was in his living room like everybody else.

Yeah. What do you think the lesson learned is from all of this, Katie? Do you I mean, is there any takeaway aside from I mean just the obvious, which is murder for hire is an awful life, conspiracy is and awful idea. We've talked about privilege, is that kind of what it boils down to people thinking that they can do whatever the hell they want because of the way they grew up.

Yeah. What do you think the lesson learned is from all of this, Katie? Do you I mean, is there any takeaway aside from I mean just the obvious, which is murder for hire is an awful life, conspiracy is and awful idea. We've talked about privilege, is that kind of what it boils down to people thinking that they can do whatever the hell they want because of the way they grew up.

It's a big part of it, certainly a big part of it. And then again, how in some situations there's these sort of trains racing towards each other, and sometimes it just seems like there's very little you can do to stop it.

It's a big part of it, certainly a big part of it. And then again, how in some situations there's these sort of trains racing towards each other, and sometimes it just seems like there's very little you can do to stop it.