This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.

This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.

Often we take of people as victims, but these women were so strong and yet they disappeared. They too let their guard down.

Often we take of people as victims, but these women were so strong and yet they disappeared. They too let their guard down.

I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor in Austin, Texas. I'm also the co host of the podcast Buried Bones on Exactly Right, and throughout my career, research for my many audio and book projects has taken me around the world. On Wicked Words, I sit down with the people I've met along the way, amazing writers, journalists, filmmakers, and podcasters who have investigated and reported on notorious true crime cases. This is about the choices writers make, both good and bad, and it's a deep dive into the unpublish details behind their stories. I've said this many times. Unsolved cases frustrate me. I need a solution or a conclusion. But cold cases are so important. And my next guest wants to talk about missing women one case that is more than one hundred years old and she can use our help. Author Kathleen Brunel tells me about her book called She's Gone Five Mysterious twentieth century cold cases. So you have these five cases of five missing women, and we know it is very difficult to prosecute a case with no body because there's of course the argument. And I would say, particularly with the exception of maybe your nineteen seventy seven case, that these are people who could pick up and leave and it would be very hard to trace them. Otherwise, why pick women who have gone missing versus women who have been murdered? What intrigues you about this idea?

I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor in Austin, Texas. I'm also the co host of the podcast Buried Bones on Exactly Right, and throughout my career, research for my many audio and book projects has taken me around the world. On Wicked Words, I sit down with the people I've met along the way, amazing writers, journalists, filmmakers, and podcasters who have investigated and reported on notorious true crime cases. This is about the choices writers make, both good and bad, and it's a deep dive into the unpublish details behind their stories. I've said this many times. Unsolved cases frustrate me. I need a solution or a conclusion. But cold cases are so important. And my next guest wants to talk about missing women one case that is more than one hundred years old and she can use our help. Author Kathleen Brunel tells me about her book called She's Gone Five Mysterious twentieth century cold cases. So you have these five cases of five missing women, and we know it is very difficult to prosecute a case with no body because there's of course the argument. And I would say, particularly with the exception of maybe your nineteen seventy seven case, that these are people who could pick up and leave and it would be very hard to trace them. Otherwise, why pick women who have gone missing versus women who have been murdered? What intrigues you about this idea?

What intrigued me about this idea is when I found the first case, which was Anna's case. I was very intrigued by this because Anna, when she went missing, her husband told everybody that she ran away because she did not want to have a family anymore. She didn't want to be a mother anymore. She wanted to go to cabarets, and she wanted to have fun, and she didn't want responsibility, and he really bad mouthed her to the whole community. I felt that a huge injustice had been done to her. It'd be really upset. I felt that she had no more voice and for her. When I started researching her case, it had been one hundred years since she disappeared, and I really felt that I want in this book to give a voice to these women who can no longer speak for themselves. And I feel that it's really important to give them that voice, because one of the things in these cases is that when somebody's been missing and been missing for a long time, it's almost as if they just disappear and it doesn't matter anymore. But it does matter, and they matter, and I want to write this book to give them a voice and to keep speaking their names and giving them that voice, and to note that they're not forgotten and that they are real people with real lives, and people who often made a real difference. And so part of writing the book is just to tell the stories of like these incredible people and all of the wonderful things that they did, to not just write about their disappearances, but to write about their lives.

What intrigued me about this idea is when I found the first case, which was Anna's case. I was very intrigued by this because Anna, when she went missing, her husband told everybody that she ran away because she did not want to have a family anymore. She didn't want to be a mother anymore. She wanted to go to cabarets, and she wanted to have fun, and she didn't want responsibility, and he really bad mouthed her to the whole community. I felt that a huge injustice had been done to her. It'd be really upset. I felt that she had no more voice and for her. When I started researching her case, it had been one hundred years since she disappeared, and I really felt that I want in this book to give a voice to these women who can no longer speak for themselves. And I feel that it's really important to give them that voice, because one of the things in these cases is that when somebody's been missing and been missing for a long time, it's almost as if they just disappear and it doesn't matter anymore. But it does matter, and they matter, and I want to write this book to give them a voice and to keep speaking their names and giving them that voice, and to note that they're not forgotten and that they are real people with real lives, and people who often made a real difference. And so part of writing the book is just to tell the stories of like these incredible people and all of the wonderful things that they did, to not just write about their disappearances, but to write about their lives.

Victim Forward, we know that's really important, rather than putting the Killer forward and my other show to fold more Wicked. You know, we wrapped up a season that was set in sixteen seventy eight about a potential wrongful conviction, and a family member from this family of the man who may or may not have murdered his mother reached out to me and said, please be open minded. Don't think that he did it necessarily. We have written to Queen Elizabeth and said please posthumously exonerate him. Now that she's gone, we're writing to King Charles. And I just thought, my goodness, this is three hundred and something years ago and this family still cares that much. And I encounter that all the time. So I absolutely agree with you that these cases deserve closure. And let me ask you, there is no doubt based on your research with these five cases, that these are women who did not simply walk away. That something must have happened to them to stop them from returning to their family or to their friends.

Victim Forward, we know that's really important, rather than putting the Killer forward and my other show to fold more Wicked. You know, we wrapped up a season that was set in sixteen seventy eight about a potential wrongful conviction, and a family member from this family of the man who may or may not have murdered his mother reached out to me and said, please be open minded. Don't think that he did it necessarily. We have written to Queen Elizabeth and said please posthumously exonerate him. Now that she's gone, we're writing to King Charles. And I just thought, my goodness, this is three hundred and something years ago and this family still cares that much. And I encounter that all the time. So I absolutely agree with you that these cases deserve closure. And let me ask you, there is no doubt based on your research with these five cases, that these are women who did not simply walk away. That something must have happened to them to stop them from returning to their family or to their friends.

Yes, absolutely, there's lots of little clues and information within that gave you this sort of information, so that you know, holidays go by, there's certain things. So then the cases is for instance, with Agnes two percent, when her briefcase was found, her sisters knew that was it. That briefcase was a symbol that she had made it. And so she carried that briefcase with her every where she went. And so when they found that briefcase, her sisters knew that she was born.

Yes, absolutely, there's lots of little clues and information within that gave you this sort of information, so that you know, holidays go by, there's certain things. So then the cases is for instance, with Agnes two percent, when her briefcase was found, her sisters knew that was it. That briefcase was a symbol that she had made it. And so she carried that briefcase with her every where she went. And so when they found that briefcase, her sisters knew that she was born.

I mean, you know, now with people when they disappear. You can look at CCTV, you can look at credit cards, you can look at bank statements, you can look at cell phone records, so many other ways now that police can say, pretty unlikely this person just walked away from their life. But in the nineteen eighteen, nineteen twenties and thirties and forties, it was really easy to kind of pick up and move somewhere and not and not tell anybody. And so it's I think you're right, it's those little clues the context of somebody's life. Knowing that you know this person is a wonderful mother and would have never walked away, that must have given the police something to really think about, unless you're about to tell me that in these cases the police cared about some and then didn't care about others.

I mean, you know, now with people when they disappear. You can look at CCTV, you can look at credit cards, you can look at bank statements, you can look at cell phone records, so many other ways now that police can say, pretty unlikely this person just walked away from their life. But in the nineteen eighteen, nineteen twenties and thirties and forties, it was really easy to kind of pick up and move somewhere and not and not tell anybody. And so it's I think you're right, it's those little clues the context of somebody's life. Knowing that you know this person is a wonderful mother and would have never walked away, that must have given the police something to really think about, unless you're about to tell me that in these cases the police cared about some and then didn't care about others.

Well, Agnes two for since she was very lucky because in a lot of the cases, what's interesting is you know, you have the family coming in and really fighting for these women, and sometimes you have the police really fighting in other cases not so much. With Anna Lakazio, you know that situation, you really did not have anything happening in that case for two years, and it wasn't until the family came in, and then you had her uncle reaching out for help with Grace Hemistead coming in, who is if anyone who read the book, missus Sherlotte Holmes and I know that you've had that here on your show, so you know, she actually came in on this case, and she came in to fight, and the sheriff in the town basically said, I won't let a woman come in here and tell me how to do my job. You know what I'm going to do. So that was very interesting because at that point he did not have one slip of paper regarding Anna's disappearance, and that's two years on in her disappearance, nor had it figured in the newspaper. Nothing, There was nothing on her disappearance. It was as if she was just gone and they just moved on. So that was just a very upsetting case. And that's the first case I came across. So it was just a very upsetting case until her uncle got involved and started demanding answers, whereas on a supercent's case, she had four sisters who were demanding answers and her husband he called them the four Furies. He did not like it very much, but they were not going to relent at all. So they did everything they possibly could. But even in the face of that, they could not They couldn't get him, you know, they couldn't. But they tried, they really really tried.

Well, Agnes two for since she was very lucky because in a lot of the cases, what's interesting is you know, you have the family coming in and really fighting for these women, and sometimes you have the police really fighting in other cases not so much. With Anna Lakazio, you know that situation, you really did not have anything happening in that case for two years, and it wasn't until the family came in, and then you had her uncle reaching out for help with Grace Hemistead coming in, who is if anyone who read the book, missus Sherlotte Holmes and I know that you've had that here on your show, so you know, she actually came in on this case, and she came in to fight, and the sheriff in the town basically said, I won't let a woman come in here and tell me how to do my job. You know what I'm going to do. So that was very interesting because at that point he did not have one slip of paper regarding Anna's disappearance, and that's two years on in her disappearance, nor had it figured in the newspaper. Nothing, There was nothing on her disappearance. It was as if she was just gone and they just moved on. So that was just a very upsetting case. And that's the first case I came across. So it was just a very upsetting case until her uncle got involved and started demanding answers, whereas on a supercent's case, she had four sisters who were demanding answers and her husband he called them the four Furies. He did not like it very much, but they were not going to relent at all. So they did everything they possibly could. But even in the face of that, they could not They couldn't get him, you know, they couldn't. But they tried, they really really tried.

Well, let's get into the story. So this is nineteen eighteen, and this is Anna Laicassio. And you said that she's a mother of a married mother of four. Is that right?

Well, let's get into the story. So this is nineteen eighteen, and this is Anna Laicassio. And you said that she's a mother of a married mother of four. Is that right?

Yep, she's married, mother of four. She married when she was fifteen years old.

Yep, she's married, mother of four. She married when she was fifteen years old.

Wow.

Wow.

So she married Franklcazio and he was older at the time. They married in New York and they settled after having three children, they settled in Richfield Park, New Jersey. He was a barber and they settled in a barbershop which had the shop on one side and had their house on the other side, so that you know, she took care of the children and he took care of the shop. And this, you know, they had this arrangement and this worked well, and then they had their fourth child there in New Jersey. One of the things I think happened was that she was so young when she got married. You know that after she had her children, she was looking for some freedom and her family was back in New York. Her sister worked in the Shirtwais factories, and Anna wanted to work too. She wanted to get out of the house, and by the time her youngest was five, you know, she wanted a little more freedom, and so she started working with her sister in New York, so she would take the train out to work.

So she married Franklcazio and he was older at the time. They married in New York and they settled after having three children, they settled in Richfield Park, New Jersey. He was a barber and they settled in a barbershop which had the shop on one side and had their house on the other side, so that you know, she took care of the children and he took care of the shop. And this, you know, they had this arrangement and this worked well, and then they had their fourth child there in New Jersey. One of the things I think happened was that she was so young when she got married. You know that after she had her children, she was looking for some freedom and her family was back in New York. Her sister worked in the Shirtwais factories, and Anna wanted to work too. She wanted to get out of the house, and by the time her youngest was five, you know, she wanted a little more freedom, and so she started working with her sister in New York, so she would take the train out to work.

What's the dynamic before where this happens between Frank and Anna? Do we see hints of violence or I mean, I know there's controlling, but in nineteen eighteen, do we see any sort of violent tendencies or anything.

What's the dynamic before where this happens between Frank and Anna? Do we see hints of violence or I mean, I know there's controlling, but in nineteen eighteen, do we see any sort of violent tendencies or anything.

The neighbors do say there's a lot of fighting going on. So this was the case that was interesting for me because there wasn't a lot of information and in the papers for me, and that's where you know, I was looking. So I got most of the information at the trial and from genealogy records as bus as I could going in and so what I found is out there was a lot of fighting between them. And as you say, this is where I'm trying to try to look at it from Frank's perspective and the fact that it's a really interesting dynamic to me that here you have this woman who marries at fifteen, and Frank is a little older at the time, in his twenties, and you know, Frank's established in her job, and he's ready to have his family and they you know, they move to this small town and he's ready to do the family thing. And she I think that fifteen is thinking that's attractive to her at the time because she can get out of her big family home and start her life, and that looks good to her at the time probably, But then after four children so fast, and she's just a teenager herself, and now she's in her twenties, and I think she's just starting to think like, oh, I can live my life and I want to have a good time, and he's think, no, that looks like that's not what I want. And so that's where I think they start to come to odds, you know, and they start to have a tough time understanding one another at that point. And so they're having trouble surely in the marriage at that point, and a difficult time understanding one another. And in a lot of the cases, I'm finding that that it's difficult for women, especially in the historic cases. The older kid, he says that it's difficult for women to express themselves and to in a time when they're just learning to express themselves, and that poses a problem. And there's a point where Frank said that, you know, he told her you're not going back to work anymore, and she said, I will do his act please, you know, and being like that. There's a phrase in one of my other cases where the husband issuing his wife for custody of their daughter, and you know, she's an actress, and he calls her a pretty girl. She has pretty girl priorities because she's trying to be an actress and she can't be a mother if she is an actress. And the judge at the time says, well, I know many actresses that are good.

The neighbors do say there's a lot of fighting going on. So this was the case that was interesting for me because there wasn't a lot of information and in the papers for me, and that's where you know, I was looking. So I got most of the information at the trial and from genealogy records as bus as I could going in and so what I found is out there was a lot of fighting between them. And as you say, this is where I'm trying to try to look at it from Frank's perspective and the fact that it's a really interesting dynamic to me that here you have this woman who marries at fifteen, and Frank is a little older at the time, in his twenties, and you know, Frank's established in her job, and he's ready to have his family and they you know, they move to this small town and he's ready to do the family thing. And she I think that fifteen is thinking that's attractive to her at the time because she can get out of her big family home and start her life, and that looks good to her at the time probably, But then after four children so fast, and she's just a teenager herself, and now she's in her twenties, and I think she's just starting to think like, oh, I can live my life and I want to have a good time, and he's think, no, that looks like that's not what I want. And so that's where I think they start to come to odds, you know, and they start to have a tough time understanding one another at that point. And so they're having trouble surely in the marriage at that point, and a difficult time understanding one another. And in a lot of the cases, I'm finding that that it's difficult for women, especially in the historic cases. The older kid, he says that it's difficult for women to express themselves and to in a time when they're just learning to express themselves, and that poses a problem. And there's a point where Frank said that, you know, he told her you're not going back to work anymore, and she said, I will do his act please, you know, and being like that. There's a phrase in one of my other cases where the husband issuing his wife for custody of their daughter, and you know, she's an actress, and he calls her a pretty girl. She has pretty girl priorities because she's trying to be an actress and she can't be a mother if she is an actress. And the judge at the time says, well, I know many actresses that are good.

Mothers and actually side to a car which I think is pretty interesting because he's so adamant that she can't do both and it's the nineteen forties, and that it's just a very interesting thing to me.

Mothers and actually side to a car which I think is pretty interesting because he's so adamant that she can't do both and it's the nineteen forties, and that it's just a very interesting thing to me.

I write about in one of my books. I mentioned this one in the show that I Have Bury Bones. I write about the heartlawm lawsuits. I don't know if you've run across those where men say to women, I'll marry you, and I know this is against the rules, but let's go ahead and have sex because we are going to get married. And then they have sex, and then he says his engagements off, and they were allowed. Women could sue, and they got a lot of money because then you've got your talking about the other side. We're talking about sort of like women sexuality and liberation, and as we're approaching the twenties, a little more open mindedness. But at the same time, that's sort of understanding the value of a woman's virtue and the expectation in this time period that that is, her value is in that and when a man comes and quote unquote ruins her before marriage, her value has plummeted and she is now legally able to go to the courts and demand money from him for ruining her. So I feel like we're straddling in this time period a little bit two different worlds of sort of that can mentional wear a corset and have a chaperone with you, versus sort of women becoming, especially with the war, able to embrace more independence and more work and all of that.

I write about in one of my books. I mentioned this one in the show that I Have Bury Bones. I write about the heartlawm lawsuits. I don't know if you've run across those where men say to women, I'll marry you, and I know this is against the rules, but let's go ahead and have sex because we are going to get married. And then they have sex, and then he says his engagements off, and they were allowed. Women could sue, and they got a lot of money because then you've got your talking about the other side. We're talking about sort of like women sexuality and liberation, and as we're approaching the twenties, a little more open mindedness. But at the same time, that's sort of understanding the value of a woman's virtue and the expectation in this time period that that is, her value is in that and when a man comes and quote unquote ruins her before marriage, her value has plummeted and she is now legally able to go to the courts and demand money from him for ruining her. So I feel like we're straddling in this time period a little bit two different worlds of sort of that can mentional wear a corset and have a chaperone with you, versus sort of women becoming, especially with the war, able to embrace more independence and more work and all of that.

Yes, absolutely absolutely, they had a neighbor upstairs who was a little bit of a busy body.

Yes, absolutely absolutely, they had a neighbor upstairs who was a little bit of a busy body.

Thank goodness, those busy bodies are the ones who make these stories good sometimes, aren't they?

Thank goodness, those busy bodies are the ones who make these stories good sometimes, aren't they?

Yes, yes, And she noted that Anna I was spending some time at the Cargarets on her way home when she was supposed to be still sort of at work. And you know, Frank had made dinner by that point with the kids, and so one night he went and he checked on her, and sure enough, she was a saloon down the street, and he didn't let her know that he saw her. He asked her where she had been, and she said, oh, she had missed the train and she had to walk or well, this is all according to Frank, because we don't have Anna's word for any of this. This all came out at trial later, and so he became increasingly upset by this, and he decided he didn't want her to go to work anymore because when she went to work, well, she could go anywhere on the way home and he wouldn't know where she was or what was going on. And so they started fighting about her going to work. This is nineteen eighteen, and so war is raging and the Red Cross is looking for nurses because a lot of the established nurses are overseas, and so they're looking for volunteer nurses, and there were ads in the local paper in her town, you know, looking for women to come up and train. And his mother thought that that would be a good idea for Anna to do something like that, and her sister Katie thought so as well, and Anna wanted to and she brought this up again. According to Frank, Anna had brought this up, and so she decided that she she wanted to do this, and Frank again thought this was not a good idea, and she did not want her to do this. He wanted her to stay home with the children. Apparently they thought about these things on the night in question when they had this screaming match the night she disappeared. A few days prior to the argument, Anna had come home from work. They had fought, and Anna ended up not going to work the next day, the children said because she had so. Her oldest at the time was ten, a girl, and the child below that was eight, and the other two were much younger. And so those girls testified, and what they said was that their mother was thick and so she couldn't go to work, and that their father had taken their mother in a taxi to the hospital. She did not go back to work for a few days now. One of the girls said she thought it had been two weeks, but the other said she thought it was a few days. So they don't know. They're testifying two years later, and they're young. She doesn't go back to work until the day she disappears. She comes home that night, Frank has dinner waiting. He says she sits down to dinner, but she doesn't eat, and that he hears her tell the children, this will be the last night that you ever see me. Then the two they put the children to bed, She does, and they go into their bedroom. She tells him that she doesn't want the house anymore, she doesn't want the children anymore, she doesn't want to be a wife anymore, that she wants to go, that he needs to let her go. She tried to leave the room, and that he physically barred the door. The lawyer asked him, how long did you bar the door? He said for a couple of hours. That's what he testified, and he said that she bit his finger. One of the girls corroborated that she saw her mother bite her father's finger as she was trying to get out of the room. Then the girls testified that they heard their mother's scream, like a really horrible scream that woke them, so they came to the room. This is the scream that neighbors heard and that prompted them to call the police. The upstairs neighbor, Missus Fletcher, who had told Frank before that she saw his wife at besselone, she heard the scream as well. It was so loud it woke her and her husband. They knocked on the floor to see what is going on. Even came down to knock on the door. Everyone said that after they heard the scream, there was silence. The girls testified that they saw their father with his hands around their mother's neck and that she then like fell and then he dragged her over to the bed and he laid her down and faced her head to the wall. It said, he said that she was sick. The girls went to bed. When they went into the room the next morning, she was in the same clothes she was in the night before. She was in the same position as the night before, and she was looking in the same direction as the night before. And they asked, did you speak to her? No, why didn't you speak to her? Was afraid to disturb her.

Yes, yes, And she noted that Anna I was spending some time at the Cargarets on her way home when she was supposed to be still sort of at work. And you know, Frank had made dinner by that point with the kids, and so one night he went and he checked on her, and sure enough, she was a saloon down the street, and he didn't let her know that he saw her. He asked her where she had been, and she said, oh, she had missed the train and she had to walk or well, this is all according to Frank, because we don't have Anna's word for any of this. This all came out at trial later, and so he became increasingly upset by this, and he decided he didn't want her to go to work anymore because when she went to work, well, she could go anywhere on the way home and he wouldn't know where she was or what was going on. And so they started fighting about her going to work. This is nineteen eighteen, and so war is raging and the Red Cross is looking for nurses because a lot of the established nurses are overseas, and so they're looking for volunteer nurses, and there were ads in the local paper in her town, you know, looking for women to come up and train. And his mother thought that that would be a good idea for Anna to do something like that, and her sister Katie thought so as well, and Anna wanted to and she brought this up again. According to Frank, Anna had brought this up, and so she decided that she she wanted to do this, and Frank again thought this was not a good idea, and she did not want her to do this. He wanted her to stay home with the children. Apparently they thought about these things on the night in question when they had this screaming match the night she disappeared. A few days prior to the argument, Anna had come home from work. They had fought, and Anna ended up not going to work the next day, the children said because she had so. Her oldest at the time was ten, a girl, and the child below that was eight, and the other two were much younger. And so those girls testified, and what they said was that their mother was thick and so she couldn't go to work, and that their father had taken their mother in a taxi to the hospital. She did not go back to work for a few days now. One of the girls said she thought it had been two weeks, but the other said she thought it was a few days. So they don't know. They're testifying two years later, and they're young. She doesn't go back to work until the day she disappears. She comes home that night, Frank has dinner waiting. He says she sits down to dinner, but she doesn't eat, and that he hears her tell the children, this will be the last night that you ever see me. Then the two they put the children to bed, She does, and they go into their bedroom. She tells him that she doesn't want the house anymore, she doesn't want the children anymore, she doesn't want to be a wife anymore, that she wants to go, that he needs to let her go. She tried to leave the room, and that he physically barred the door. The lawyer asked him, how long did you bar the door? He said for a couple of hours. That's what he testified, and he said that she bit his finger. One of the girls corroborated that she saw her mother bite her father's finger as she was trying to get out of the room. Then the girls testified that they heard their mother's scream, like a really horrible scream that woke them, so they came to the room. This is the scream that neighbors heard and that prompted them to call the police. The upstairs neighbor, Missus Fletcher, who had told Frank before that she saw his wife at besselone, she heard the scream as well. It was so loud it woke her and her husband. They knocked on the floor to see what is going on. Even came down to knock on the door. Everyone said that after they heard the scream, there was silence. The girls testified that they saw their father with his hands around their mother's neck and that she then like fell and then he dragged her over to the bed and he laid her down and faced her head to the wall. It said, he said that she was sick. The girls went to bed. When they went into the room the next morning, she was in the same clothes she was in the night before. She was in the same position as the night before, and she was looking in the same direction as the night before. And they asked, did you speak to her? No, why didn't you speak to her? Was afraid to disturb her.

Were there any other suspects from the police's point of view once they found out, I mean, what led up to this? Does he report her missing or how does this work?

Were there any other suspects from the police's point of view once they found out, I mean, what led up to this? Does he report her missing or how does this work?

He did not report her missing at first. He told his upstairs neighbor, Missus Fletcher, who said, what happened last night? What prompted this argument? Like what's going on? Because she wanted to know, and he said, like, what you thought happened happened, basically referring to you know, she was out of a saloon with other people, and so we were arguing about that. His brother was living with them at the time, and his brother said he didn't hear anything that night. So Drank told his brother we had been in an argument, and the brother said, well, she was arguing with Missus Fletcher the night before, saying, stay out of my husband's and my business. You know, that's my business, not your business to tell my husband where i'd or you know whatever. So she had had an argument with Missus Fletcher. You know. Frank alluded to the fact that she he thought she was seeing some man at the saloon, so maybe that had something to do with it. So later somebody said that they thought they saw Anna with a man down by the docks. But it turned out that Frank had given that man who said he saw Anna, he had given him some wine. Just Frank made wine, and so they dismissed that as relevant. So no other than that they did not investigate the case. So there was no investigation at the local police station into the case at all. And he did not go to the police until three days after her disappearance because he said she ran away, so she hadn't disappeared, she left by choice in the middle of the night. But he also he also got rid of the sheets and the mattress of the bed like that week, saying that there were bed bugs, like an infestation of bed bugs, and that's why he had to get rid of them. Lots of little things like that happened. He did go to her uncle to tell him what happened, and he was very afraid to go to her uncle and tell him. He was nervous around her family because they had some money and Frank really didn't, and he felt that they felt they were like higher up than Frank was, and so he was a little bit nervous around her family. The father told him and Frank cried on the stand when he talked about it, that if you don't find my daughter, then I will be one of the men to kill you. And so Frank was very nervous about it. But then apparently Frank said that after a little bit of time, and his father said, never mind, just go take care of your children. The children ended up going to an orphanage and they were there basically until they were old enough to work, and then they slowly came back to live with Frank. He eventually sold the house on Paulison Street and built a new area on Main Street where he had a thriving business. He lived a good long life. His son took over the business for him, and he had you know, children, grandchildren, all of that. He did get in trouble for selling wine and making wine during prohibition. During that time. That's when I was able to verify because this was three years after the trial that he got in trouble, and the newspaper made a reference to the fact that still no one had seen Anna at that point, that she was still missing and no one had seen her. He never remarried, but no one ever saw her again, and there was money waiting for her at her job at the short rates factory, and she never collected it, and they thought about her going to join the Red Cross and to work. There's no evidence of her training for the Red Cross. She never went to go be with her family, which she argued about wanting to do, because they were looking for her and they couldn't find her. There was a fresh patch of cement in the cellar that missus Fletcher saw because they showed the cellar, and she wanted to know why that was there, and she smelled lime, so she wanted to know what this was all about. And she didn't trust the local sheriff because she knew nothing was being done about the case. So she went to the town over to that police station and she told them about it. They told their sheriff, who promptly told all the roads wild self. So Frank tried to sue her for defamation of counter and she actually stopped talking about the case, and when they tried to come talk to her, she said that she wouldn't speak to anybody, so she stopped talking about the case altogether. So two years later, when Grace Hemmiston came in, she wanted to dig that cellar up and she wanted of animals there because one of the things that was happening in the case, and something that Grace Humiston was very well known for, is that Anna's reputation was being called into question, that she was a bad wife, she was a bad mother, that she had caused this, and you know, Grace Hemmiston famously in the Krugel case said no, she's not a bad girl. She did not cause this. So here Anna's uncle read about her and wanted her to come, you know, find Anna and bring those same rules into Anna's case. Now, whether they dug up this seller, I could not verify. I don't think they ever did dig up the cellar. I know that the sheriff would not let them. I don't believe that she ever did. And we don't really have papers for her, and I can't find any notes from her on this case. She did testify in the trial and she said that Frank would not contribute money to the case. And in his defense, he said, well, why would I she left me, Why would I give money to somebody who loved me? So in his defense, I'm trying to stay in partial to It's hard to but I tried to because in some ways he said difficult. But in other ways try and stay open to him. So if you look at it from that perspective, if she did leave him, he says, well, why would I Why would I put money, you know, to hope in that sense, you know, I just want to get on with my life. So so that would make sense in that in that case. And he said he didn't have a picture of her to put in the paper, and that's why he didn't put any in the paper. Her sister testified, and they said, why didn't you help him get a picture of your sister, And she said, because he had plenty of that, you know. And he said and he said, you're you're mad, and she said no, she said, dogs get mad. I'm not mad. So she was very interested, I understand, and his sister.

He did not report her missing at first. He told his upstairs neighbor, Missus Fletcher, who said, what happened last night? What prompted this argument? Like what's going on? Because she wanted to know, and he said, like, what you thought happened happened, basically referring to you know, she was out of a saloon with other people, and so we were arguing about that. His brother was living with them at the time, and his brother said he didn't hear anything that night. So Drank told his brother we had been in an argument, and the brother said, well, she was arguing with Missus Fletcher the night before, saying, stay out of my husband's and my business. You know, that's my business, not your business to tell my husband where i'd or you know whatever. So she had had an argument with Missus Fletcher. You know. Frank alluded to the fact that she he thought she was seeing some man at the saloon, so maybe that had something to do with it. So later somebody said that they thought they saw Anna with a man down by the docks. But it turned out that Frank had given that man who said he saw Anna, he had given him some wine. Just Frank made wine, and so they dismissed that as relevant. So no other than that they did not investigate the case. So there was no investigation at the local police station into the case at all. And he did not go to the police until three days after her disappearance because he said she ran away, so she hadn't disappeared, she left by choice in the middle of the night. But he also he also got rid of the sheets and the mattress of the bed like that week, saying that there were bed bugs, like an infestation of bed bugs, and that's why he had to get rid of them. Lots of little things like that happened. He did go to her uncle to tell him what happened, and he was very afraid to go to her uncle and tell him. He was nervous around her family because they had some money and Frank really didn't, and he felt that they felt they were like higher up than Frank was, and so he was a little bit nervous around her family. The father told him and Frank cried on the stand when he talked about it, that if you don't find my daughter, then I will be one of the men to kill you. And so Frank was very nervous about it. But then apparently Frank said that after a little bit of time, and his father said, never mind, just go take care of your children. The children ended up going to an orphanage and they were there basically until they were old enough to work, and then they slowly came back to live with Frank. He eventually sold the house on Paulison Street and built a new area on Main Street where he had a thriving business. He lived a good long life. His son took over the business for him, and he had you know, children, grandchildren, all of that. He did get in trouble for selling wine and making wine during prohibition. During that time. That's when I was able to verify because this was three years after the trial that he got in trouble, and the newspaper made a reference to the fact that still no one had seen Anna at that point, that she was still missing and no one had seen her. He never remarried, but no one ever saw her again, and there was money waiting for her at her job at the short rates factory, and she never collected it, and they thought about her going to join the Red Cross and to work. There's no evidence of her training for the Red Cross. She never went to go be with her family, which she argued about wanting to do, because they were looking for her and they couldn't find her. There was a fresh patch of cement in the cellar that missus Fletcher saw because they showed the cellar, and she wanted to know why that was there, and she smelled lime, so she wanted to know what this was all about. And she didn't trust the local sheriff because she knew nothing was being done about the case. So she went to the town over to that police station and she told them about it. They told their sheriff, who promptly told all the roads wild self. So Frank tried to sue her for defamation of counter and she actually stopped talking about the case, and when they tried to come talk to her, she said that she wouldn't speak to anybody, so she stopped talking about the case altogether. So two years later, when Grace Hemmiston came in, she wanted to dig that cellar up and she wanted of animals there because one of the things that was happening in the case, and something that Grace Humiston was very well known for, is that Anna's reputation was being called into question, that she was a bad wife, she was a bad mother, that she had caused this, and you know, Grace Hemmiston famously in the Krugel case said no, she's not a bad girl. She did not cause this. So here Anna's uncle read about her and wanted her to come, you know, find Anna and bring those same rules into Anna's case. Now, whether they dug up this seller, I could not verify. I don't think they ever did dig up the cellar. I know that the sheriff would not let them. I don't believe that she ever did. And we don't really have papers for her, and I can't find any notes from her on this case. She did testify in the trial and she said that Frank would not contribute money to the case. And in his defense, he said, well, why would I she left me, Why would I give money to somebody who loved me? So in his defense, I'm trying to stay in partial to It's hard to but I tried to because in some ways he said difficult. But in other ways try and stay open to him. So if you look at it from that perspective, if she did leave him, he says, well, why would I Why would I put money, you know, to hope in that sense, you know, I just want to get on with my life. So so that would make sense in that in that case. And he said he didn't have a picture of her to put in the paper, and that's why he didn't put any in the paper. Her sister testified, and they said, why didn't you help him get a picture of your sister, And she said, because he had plenty of that, you know. And he said and he said, you're you're mad, and she said no, she said, dogs get mad. I'm not mad. So she was very interested, I understand, and his sister.

So, Frank, if he's responsible, gets away with it.

So, Frank, if he's responsible, gets away with it.

And again maybe he had nothing to do with it. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence, but I think the jury without a body, yeah, the jury did not feel comfortable condemning him, especially when he had a good reputation in town, and it's a small town. It really didn't feel comfortable condemning him without the evidence of a body or any emidence.

And again maybe he had nothing to do with it. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence, but I think the jury without a body, yeah, the jury did not feel comfortable condemning him, especially when he had a good reputation in town, and it's a small town. It really didn't feel comfortable condemning him without the evidence of a body or any emidence.

Well, now, we're going to the other end of the spectrum in your book to nineteen seventy seven. Tell me about I mean, we'll just take this chronologically. What we know if she is a victim, and I think we believe that this young woman is a victim. Actually she's a girl, we're saying, a teenager, right, Okay, what do we need to know about Simone Reniger?

Well, now, we're going to the other end of the spectrum in your book to nineteen seventy seven. Tell me about I mean, we'll just take this chronologically. What we know if she is a victim, and I think we believe that this young woman is a victim. Actually she's a girl, we're saying, a teenager, right, Okay, what do we need to know about Simone Reniger?

So Simone was raised Originally she was in Pittsburgh, but when she was just about five years old, her father passed away and so her mother, Jane, brought Simone back to New York, where Jane's parents lived. And at about that time, across the street, John Ridinger was living with his daughter Betsy and his wife, and his wife unfortunately passed away from a cerebral hemorrhage. And so you had these two widowers living across from one another with young daughters, and they met and they eventually married, and so the daughters were only two years apart, Betsy and Simone. John adopted Simone and Jane adopted Betsy and they became a family. John joh brought him to Massachusetts to sherborn and that's where Simone spent one of her teenage years. She was a very smart girl. She was fluent in French as a youngster. She's a gifted musician. She played by year. She loved horseback riding. Spirited girl, very creative. Her mom was very creative. The girls just had a lot of fun together. They had a very close bond, these two girls. And they had the family home on chap Equatic, which is just off with Edgar Town on Martha's Vineyard. This home had no it's in the seventies. It didn't have any running water, electricity, phone, like, none of that, but like a really fun place. They loved going there. One year, they spent the entire summer there. They also usually spent at least two weeks there and they would go sailing and collecting shells and just reading and puzzles and spending time with cousins, and you know, they just love to be there. It's a great place for them. Simone, by the time she was in high school, Oh, she didn't really want to be there. She didn't like to go. Her sister remembers hearing Simone's name over the intercom because they were calling her for detention because she had skipped school. But she wasn't there when they were calling her for She's gidding more detention.

So Simone was raised Originally she was in Pittsburgh, but when she was just about five years old, her father passed away and so her mother, Jane, brought Simone back to New York, where Jane's parents lived. And at about that time, across the street, John Ridinger was living with his daughter Betsy and his wife, and his wife unfortunately passed away from a cerebral hemorrhage. And so you had these two widowers living across from one another with young daughters, and they met and they eventually married, and so the daughters were only two years apart, Betsy and Simone. John adopted Simone and Jane adopted Betsy and they became a family. John joh brought him to Massachusetts to sherborn and that's where Simone spent one of her teenage years. She was a very smart girl. She was fluent in French as a youngster. She's a gifted musician. She played by year. She loved horseback riding. Spirited girl, very creative. Her mom was very creative. The girls just had a lot of fun together. They had a very close bond, these two girls. And they had the family home on chap Equatic, which is just off with Edgar Town on Martha's Vineyard. This home had no it's in the seventies. It didn't have any running water, electricity, phone, like, none of that, but like a really fun place. They loved going there. One year, they spent the entire summer there. They also usually spent at least two weeks there and they would go sailing and collecting shells and just reading and puzzles and spending time with cousins, and you know, they just love to be there. It's a great place for them. Simone, by the time she was in high school, Oh, she didn't really want to be there. She didn't like to go. Her sister remembers hearing Simone's name over the intercom because they were calling her for detention because she had skipped school. But she wasn't there when they were calling her for She's gidding more detention.

Wow, So she just kind.

Wow, So she just kind.

Of eventually dropped out all together. By the time she was a sophomore, she got her own place in Framingham, which is close to Schadbye, and her mom helped her pick out her place. She was getting her a Genie d and she got a job at a local diner in Native. So these are all kind of like in close proximity at about this time. This is when John and Jean they divorced. They're not together anymore, so all this is going on at about the same time, and Betty was living with her father.

Of eventually dropped out all together. By the time she was a sophomore, she got her own place in Framingham, which is close to Schadbye, and her mom helped her pick out her place. She was getting her a Genie d and she got a job at a local diner in Native. So these are all kind of like in close proximity at about this time. This is when John and Jean they divorced. They're not together anymore, so all this is going on at about the same time, and Betty was living with her father.

What happens to Simone in between being fluent in French and gifted musician and somebody who seemed to got to be on the track to maybe staying in school or accomplishing things, and to all of a sudden it seems like out of nowhere rebelling and having problems in high school. Was it the divorce between Jane and John or is it or anything that you have sorted out about the switch with this.

What happens to Simone in between being fluent in French and gifted musician and somebody who seemed to got to be on the track to maybe staying in school or accomplishing things, and to all of a sudden it seems like out of nowhere rebelling and having problems in high school. Was it the divorce between Jane and John or is it or anything that you have sorted out about the switch with this.

Betty just told me that, you know, Simone's just so smart that traditional school was just not really her thing. Okay, And she just was such a creative mind, do you know what I mean? H Like she enjoyed going to concerts and being creative, and like she still loved all of that. It's just not in a traditional sense. Yeah, that's an area that Betsy kind of explained it to me. This didn't seem to be any kind of break at all with her personality. This kind of seemed to go with her personality, like this was kind of who she was.

Betty just told me that, you know, Simone's just so smart that traditional school was just not really her thing. Okay, And she just was such a creative mind, do you know what I mean? H Like she enjoyed going to concerts and being creative, and like she still loved all of that. It's just not in a traditional sense. Yeah, that's an area that Betsy kind of explained it to me. This didn't seem to be any kind of break at all with her personality. This kind of seemed to go with her personality, like this was kind of who she was.

Did she get along with her folks?

Did she get along with her folks?

She did, and she got along with everyone at school. Betsy said, like she was like the friendliest person at school, that everyone knew her, everyone liked her, Her teachers loved her. Like everyone loved her. She said that she was your friend before you even knew her. That was just who she was. She was just like incredibly friendly, wonderful, everyone loved her. This will play into when she disappears, because it was not uncommon for her to just decide she's supposed to be one place, but she'll decide, oh, there's a party, I'll go there, you know, and like it just was not uncommon for her to do that. So this is how she's you know, she's she wants to get herded and start her life instead of going to traditional school every day. So that was just like very in keeping with her character, like with who she was.

She did, and she got along with everyone at school. Betsy said, like she was like the friendliest person at school, that everyone knew her, everyone liked her, Her teachers loved her. Like everyone loved her. She said that she was your friend before you even knew her. That was just who she was. She was just like incredibly friendly, wonderful, everyone loved her. This will play into when she disappears, because it was not uncommon for her to just decide she's supposed to be one place, but she'll decide, oh, there's a party, I'll go there, you know, and like it just was not uncommon for her to do that. So this is how she's you know, she's she wants to get herded and start her life instead of going to traditional school every day. So that was just like very in keeping with her character, like with who she was.

What about boyfriends.

What about boyfriends.

She had a boyfriend at the time and on again, off again boyfriend who was considered a suspect, but they marked him off pretty fast because he was incarcerated at the time.

She had a boyfriend at the time and on again, off again boyfriend who was considered a suspect, but they marked him off pretty fast because he was incarcerated at the time.

Oh there you go.

Oh there you go.

Yeah, And she was in fact supposed to visit him on the day that the police went to see him to speak to him. She was on the visitor list from that day and she didn't show up on that day, and he in fact was like very concerned, but she had stopped writing to him and he didn't understand what was going on, so he was very worried about her.

Yeah, And she was in fact supposed to visit him on the day that the police went to see him to speak to him. She was on the visitor list from that day and she didn't show up on that day, and he in fact was like very concerned, but she had stopped writing to him and he didn't understand what was going on, so he was very worried about her.

So she's seventeen. She is working on getting her ged. Is that right?

So she's seventeen. She is working on getting her ged. Is that right?

Yep, she's working on getting a ged. She has her own place. She's working at a diner called the Rainbow Restaurant. It's a natick. The one thing that's happening is she's getting everywhere by hitchhiking, and hitchhiking is big at the time, and she hitches everywhere. I mean, that's how she gets around, you know. And in talking with her sister, you know they all did this. You know, everybody did this. She said, even one time that their mother hitched, you know, to get them where they needed to go. And I mean that's just what they did. And Simone did this all the time, and how she got to work, you know, it's how she got to parties, It's how she got everywhere she needed to go. Her mom asked her to go maybe day weekend on a Friday, to go to the vineyard with her and her new friend. Boyfriend set the time and Simone would have gone with them on the Friday, but she had to work a shift on Saturday, so she said she would meet them on Saturday instead, So they were going the day before Betsy came. Her sister came to the restaurant Saturday morning and asked if she wanted a ride to the bus which was traveling down to the Cape. Someone said no, she was all set. Betsy said, okay, because Betsy was staying back home, she wasn't blowing down to the vineyard. So Betsy said, okay, you know, and she left and then Simon finished out her shift. She planned to hitch down to the Cape. Her friends were a little nervous about that because that's a much longer treat from Boston down to the Cape and just a regular you know, you're going to a party, you're getting a ride to work or whatever. But you know, she was determined. She was a very determined person. She was to do what she was going to do. So that was that she left the restaurant and that was the last time that anyone saw her. The problem was when she didn't arrive on the vineyard, her mother thought, oh, she ran up with some friends and decided not tonight. You know, she'll come tomorrow. And when she didn't show up, then oh, maybe she said she just not to come for Labor Day. I'll see her when I get home. Because this was very characteristic of Simon. Now, her sister Betsy thought she's on Cape, and the thing is, you would she wouldn't have had contact with her because there was no way to contact the Cape house. So in her mind, Simon's on Cape. In the mom's mind, Simone found something else to do, so nobody knew she was missing, is what I'm trying to say. For days until Jane came home. And when Jane came home, the first thing she did. So this was September tewond was the last shift. We don't know the exact day that Jane came home, but the missing person's file did not go through until September eleventh.

Yep, she's working on getting a ged. She has her own place. She's working at a diner called the Rainbow Restaurant. It's a natick. The one thing that's happening is she's getting everywhere by hitchhiking, and hitchhiking is big at the time, and she hitches everywhere. I mean, that's how she gets around, you know. And in talking with her sister, you know they all did this. You know, everybody did this. She said, even one time that their mother hitched, you know, to get them where they needed to go. And I mean that's just what they did. And Simone did this all the time, and how she got to work, you know, it's how she got to parties, It's how she got everywhere she needed to go. Her mom asked her to go maybe day weekend on a Friday, to go to the vineyard with her and her new friend. Boyfriend set the time and Simone would have gone with them on the Friday, but she had to work a shift on Saturday, so she said she would meet them on Saturday instead, So they were going the day before Betsy came. Her sister came to the restaurant Saturday morning and asked if she wanted a ride to the bus which was traveling down to the Cape. Someone said no, she was all set. Betsy said, okay, because Betsy was staying back home, she wasn't blowing down to the vineyard. So Betsy said, okay, you know, and she left and then Simon finished out her shift. She planned to hitch down to the Cape. Her friends were a little nervous about that because that's a much longer treat from Boston down to the Cape and just a regular you know, you're going to a party, you're getting a ride to work or whatever. But you know, she was determined. She was a very determined person. She was to do what she was going to do. So that was that she left the restaurant and that was the last time that anyone saw her. The problem was when she didn't arrive on the vineyard, her mother thought, oh, she ran up with some friends and decided not tonight. You know, she'll come tomorrow. And when she didn't show up, then oh, maybe she said she just not to come for Labor Day. I'll see her when I get home. Because this was very characteristic of Simon. Now, her sister Betsy thought she's on Cape, and the thing is, you would she wouldn't have had contact with her because there was no way to contact the Cape house. So in her mind, Simon's on Cape. In the mom's mind, Simone found something else to do, so nobody knew she was missing, is what I'm trying to say. For days until Jane came home. And when Jane came home, the first thing she did. So this was September tewond was the last shift. We don't know the exact day that Jane came home, but the missing person's file did not go through until September eleventh.

Wow.

Wow.

Right, So the first thing Jane did when she came home was go to Simone's apartment and to say where were you? What's going on? Simone's not there. She called Betsy and said it's where's Simon? Have you seen some moon? And she said, well, no, she's with you and she said no, she's not with me. And they started looking around for her, and then tryally, they went to the police station. Now here's an instance where the police said, oh, she's probably just out and about. And she had a little reputation for herself. So the police, you know, they kind of knew her, and you know, Betsy said, they said, oh, she probably just ran away, to which Betsy said, well, she lives on her own.

Right, So the first thing Jane did when she came home was go to Simone's apartment and to say where were you? What's going on? Simone's not there. She called Betsy and said it's where's Simon? Have you seen some moon? And she said, well, no, she's with you and she said no, she's not with me. And they started looking around for her, and then tryally, they went to the police station. Now here's an instance where the police said, oh, she's probably just out and about. And she had a little reputation for herself. So the police, you know, they kind of knew her, and you know, Betsy said, they said, oh, she probably just ran away, to which Betsy said, well, she lives on her own.

Where is she running from?

Where is she running from?

You know, she has her own apartment.

You know, she has her own apartment.

She doesn't need space.

She doesn't need space.

Yeah, yeah, she's not running away. She's got her own apartment. They realized pretty quickly that they were on their own, that there really wasn't going to be much of an investigation. So Betsy said that in the early days, you know, Jane, their mom really took over and it was very helpful because she just she just organized everything and they were posters together. They knocked on doors. Their dad he knew a lot of cb It was probably like a cb or organization. And they had all the truck drivers organized, searching, searching sides of roads. They got the Salvation Army involved to do city searches. They hired private investigators. They really just took this on themselves. A strange thing that happened was that a man contacted them to say that he had taken pictures of Samoa. He didn't know her, but he had seen her any aust if he could take her pictures. So there are these beautiful pictures of Simone into nature, and he offered to let the family have copies of them for hosters. So Betsy went and picked these pictures up, and these are the pictures that we have of her. They're very beautiful pictures. The priest did interview him. He has since passed. Really, I mean, they just kept searching and searching with no leads at all. Ten years later, there was a post in the Metro news where they posted the pictures again, and an elderly gentleman called the place station shared more police and said, I gave that girl a ride. They said, can you come down to the station. He said yes, So he came down to the station and he said, I gave her a ride on the Sunday. So now the Saturday was her last shift. I gave her ride on Sunday morning, I was heading down to the Cape and he lived in framing him, okay, which is right there, all these bordering towns. I was heading on one twenty eight down to the Cape on Sunday morning of Labor Day weekend. Then I've heard people right in and saying, oh, he's lying because there's traffic on Labor Day on the Cape, and so that's not true. Well, if you're coming on Sunday morning, right in early six forty five and you're heading toward the Cape, he would have been fine, okay, so it could be true. So it'd he's six forty five in the morning heading to the Cape, and he said it was about Westwood and he was pulled over by a state trooper. He was heading to the Cap to pick up clock parts because he had a hobby, but together he was a retired elderly man. He said, the state triper pulled him over for some violation whatever. I don't know if he was speeding or what. He didn't say. And when he told the officer that he was heading to the Cape, the officer pointed to the back of his squad car and said, Oh, I have a girl in the back of the car who is also heading to the Cape. Can you give her a ride? Which sounds very bizarre. Yeah, and so he said, okay. So he said he gave her a ride to Hyanna's, which is a town on the Cape, to the rotary at Hyena's and he dropped her off there. He described what she was wearing, and the police took down the description. He said the white T shirt, ripped jeans, grubby white sneakers, that she was carrying a Duffel bag. He gave her height, which would have been off. He put out taller than she would have been and said she waited a little more than she would have wayed said. She said her name was Sissy. And so they took all this down. He left what was that. Her file was only two long at the time they closed it. They put it away. Now we moved to twenty fourteen. Her mom's gone, dad's gone. Everyone in the family's bone pretty much except for her sister cousin. And her sister is thinking, you know, what is going on with this case. So she goes into the police station and says, mom's own sister, I'd like to know the state of the case. And this is why Sergeant Goudino, who was a detective at the time in the Sherbrook Police Force, he opens up the case file and reading it, he said was the easiest part because there was really nothing in there. And now what he did was he put together a series of questions and he said, I want to put together some practical questions. One of those questions was who are the last people to see Simone? Even though the original people on the case did say that they spoke to the people at the restaurant that day, there was no record of you know what did they say? Who are these people? So there aren't even records of their names in the file. So he puts like a media blitz out to try to find these people, and he's able to find three waitresses. He speaks to these three waitresses. Now one of the reasons that the people in the eighties dismissed this elderly gentleman is because what he said she was wearing is not what was in the posters of her missing posters. They said she was wearing boots and a skirt and a blouse and a hat and all these things. When he goes to interview the waitresses, Detective Gadino, they say, oh, we always changed at the end of our shift because we hated our waitressing outfit was awful. It was like uncomfortable and looked terrible. And she had a great Duffel bag, and she changed out of her outfit and she changed into a T shirt and ripped jeans and white high chop sneakers, and he thought, old on. So he went back to that paperwork that was never published, that was never put out anywhere. So now he's thinking about this and then but the gentlemen had died by that point. He interviewed the song. But the gentleman had never told his kids about this. So that's something I mean, this is an open case. I mean that's something that who knows, you know, the gentleman could have just been a concerned citizen who maybe had given whether that was Simone or not. I don't know. It could be a coincidence, say, an outfit whatever, but it's interesting if that's true. She got to hyenas, and that's one of the things in the case that they need to know. How far did she get because if she didn't get to the cape, that helps them with their search because they need to know where to look and where to confine the case because otherwise they're looking everywhere, you know, So they really need to know. Because one of the other things they're thinking is what if she stopped at a party and what if she hitched yes, and she ended up being picked up by a friend, because friends picked her up all the time, and what if they decided to go to a party, and what if something happened on a party that was just an accident and people just tried to cover it up because they didn't know what to do. That is an option, and so if that happened, one of the things that they're saying now is, you know, come forward, somebody, come forward, because right now we just want to bring Simone home and we just want closure for the family. And so if something like that happened, please, you know, so mom would only be in her sixties right now. So they believe that in this case, somebody out there knows something. Somebody knows something. Somebody had to have seen her somewhere along getting from ned It to wherever she made it, you know, like she had She didn't do a straight hitch all the way down, right, So like somebody saw her somewhere and somebody has some kind of answers and they just want somebody to come forward to give them some kind of information. So, I mean, their theories are that either she met an accidental death and somebody is just covering because they're afraid to come forward, or they're covering for somebody else and it was just an accident, like a hit and run.

Yeah, yeah, she's not running away. She's got her own apartment. They realized pretty quickly that they were on their own, that there really wasn't going to be much of an investigation. So Betsy said that in the early days, you know, Jane, their mom really took over and it was very helpful because she just she just organized everything and they were posters together. They knocked on doors. Their dad he knew a lot of cb It was probably like a cb or organization. And they had all the truck drivers organized, searching, searching sides of roads. They got the Salvation Army involved to do city searches. They hired private investigators. They really just took this on themselves. A strange thing that happened was that a man contacted them to say that he had taken pictures of Samoa. He didn't know her, but he had seen her any aust if he could take her pictures. So there are these beautiful pictures of Simone into nature, and he offered to let the family have copies of them for hosters. So Betsy went and picked these pictures up, and these are the pictures that we have of her. They're very beautiful pictures. The priest did interview him. He has since passed. Really, I mean, they just kept searching and searching with no leads at all. Ten years later, there was a post in the Metro news where they posted the pictures again, and an elderly gentleman called the place station shared more police and said, I gave that girl a ride. They said, can you come down to the station. He said yes, So he came down to the station and he said, I gave her a ride on the Sunday. So now the Saturday was her last shift. I gave her ride on Sunday morning, I was heading down to the Cape and he lived in framing him, okay, which is right there, all these bordering towns. I was heading on one twenty eight down to the Cape on Sunday morning of Labor Day weekend. Then I've heard people right in and saying, oh, he's lying because there's traffic on Labor Day on the Cape, and so that's not true. Well, if you're coming on Sunday morning, right in early six forty five and you're heading toward the Cape, he would have been fine, okay, so it could be true. So it'd he's six forty five in the morning heading to the Cape, and he said it was about Westwood and he was pulled over by a state trooper. He was heading to the Cap to pick up clock parts because he had a hobby, but together he was a retired elderly man. He said, the state triper pulled him over for some violation whatever. I don't know if he was speeding or what. He didn't say. And when he told the officer that he was heading to the Cape, the officer pointed to the back of his squad car and said, Oh, I have a girl in the back of the car who is also heading to the Cape. Can you give her a ride? Which sounds very bizarre. Yeah, and so he said, okay. So he said he gave her a ride to Hyanna's, which is a town on the Cape, to the rotary at Hyena's and he dropped her off there. He described what she was wearing, and the police took down the description. He said the white T shirt, ripped jeans, grubby white sneakers, that she was carrying a Duffel bag. He gave her height, which would have been off. He put out taller than she would have been and said she waited a little more than she would have wayed said. She said her name was Sissy. And so they took all this down. He left what was that. Her file was only two long at the time they closed it. They put it away. Now we moved to twenty fourteen. Her mom's gone, dad's gone. Everyone in the family's bone pretty much except for her sister cousin. And her sister is thinking, you know, what is going on with this case. So she goes into the police station and says, mom's own sister, I'd like to know the state of the case. And this is why Sergeant Goudino, who was a detective at the time in the Sherbrook Police Force, he opens up the case file and reading it, he said was the easiest part because there was really nothing in there. And now what he did was he put together a series of questions and he said, I want to put together some practical questions. One of those questions was who are the last people to see Simone? Even though the original people on the case did say that they spoke to the people at the restaurant that day, there was no record of you know what did they say? Who are these people? So there aren't even records of their names in the file. So he puts like a media blitz out to try to find these people, and he's able to find three waitresses. He speaks to these three waitresses. Now one of the reasons that the people in the eighties dismissed this elderly gentleman is because what he said she was wearing is not what was in the posters of her missing posters. They said she was wearing boots and a skirt and a blouse and a hat and all these things. When he goes to interview the waitresses, Detective Gadino, they say, oh, we always changed at the end of our shift because we hated our waitressing outfit was awful. It was like uncomfortable and looked terrible. And she had a great Duffel bag, and she changed out of her outfit and she changed into a T shirt and ripped jeans and white high chop sneakers, and he thought, old on. So he went back to that paperwork that was never published, that was never put out anywhere. So now he's thinking about this and then but the gentlemen had died by that point. He interviewed the song. But the gentleman had never told his kids about this. So that's something I mean, this is an open case. I mean that's something that who knows, you know, the gentleman could have just been a concerned citizen who maybe had given whether that was Simone or not. I don't know. It could be a coincidence, say, an outfit whatever, but it's interesting if that's true. She got to hyenas, and that's one of the things in the case that they need to know. How far did she get because if she didn't get to the cape, that helps them with their search because they need to know where to look and where to confine the case because otherwise they're looking everywhere, you know, So they really need to know. Because one of the other things they're thinking is what if she stopped at a party and what if she hitched yes, and she ended up being picked up by a friend, because friends picked her up all the time, and what if they decided to go to a party, and what if something happened on a party that was just an accident and people just tried to cover it up because they didn't know what to do. That is an option, and so if that happened, one of the things that they're saying now is, you know, come forward, somebody, come forward, because right now we just want to bring Simone home and we just want closure for the family. And so if something like that happened, please, you know, so mom would only be in her sixties right now. So they believe that in this case, somebody out there knows something. Somebody knows something. Somebody had to have seen her somewhere along getting from ned It to wherever she made it, you know, like she had She didn't do a straight hitch all the way down, right, So like somebody saw her somewhere and somebody has some kind of answers and they just want somebody to come forward to give them some kind of information. So, I mean, their theories are that either she met an accidental death and somebody is just covering because they're afraid to come forward, or they're covering for somebody else and it was just an accident, like a hit and run.

She's walking down the highway, you know and somebody hits her.

She's walking down the highway, you know and somebody hits her.

Or an accidental situation at a party, whether in a car or at a party, or she was the victim of some kind of situation through hitchhiking, or how far did she make it if people can even come forward they saw her here or there, they need to know did she make it to the cape if he did in fact bring her to the cape and drop her off, as he said, because she knew kids in Hyennas because they often went to the Capes through Hyennas because she had relatives and could do it, which is close to Hyanna's and so they would travel that down to a toll Did she meet up with friends there and then something happened? Right, It's really difficult for them because they're trying to narrow and they need help. So they really are relying on the public to try to give them some help, which is one of the reasons why I wanted to put this case in the book, because any little bit of publicity that we can try to get this case, Yeah, any little hope, you know, that we can get the case. Man.