This story contains adult content and language, along with references to sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised.

This story contains adult content and language, along with references to sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised.

Imagine if you've lived in a town of a few hundred people and someone suspected in four homicides is just sitting and smiling on their front porch. It's unreal how intimidating that is.

Imagine if you've lived in a town of a few hundred people and someone suspected in four homicides is just sitting and smiling on their front porch. It's unreal how intimidating that is.

I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor in Austin, Texas. I'm also the co host of the podcast Buried Bones on Exactly Right, and throughout my career, research for my many audio and book projects has taken me around the world. On Wicked Words, I sit down with the people I've met along the way, amazing writers, journalists, filmmakers, and podcasters who have investigated and reported on notori is true crime cases. This is about the choices writers make, both good and bad, and it's a deep dive into the unpublished details behind their stories. Who killed eight women in a small Louisiana town between two thousand and five and two thousand and nine and were their murders the work of a serial killer or people connected to a corrupt sheriff's department or both? This is a true life. Southern Gothic mystery author Ethan Brown offers us the story at the center of his book Murder in the Bayou who killed the women known as the Jeff Davis Eight. So let's start with how you found the story to begin with? You are a writer in New Orleans, is that right?

I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor in Austin, Texas. I'm also the co host of the podcast Buried Bones on Exactly Right, and throughout my career, research for my many audio and book projects has taken me around the world. On Wicked Words, I sit down with the people I've met along the way, amazing writers, journalists, filmmakers, and podcasters who have investigated and reported on notori is true crime cases. This is about the choices writers make, both good and bad, and it's a deep dive into the unpublished details behind their stories. Who killed eight women in a small Louisiana town between two thousand and five and two thousand and nine and were their murders the work of a serial killer or people connected to a corrupt sheriff's department or both? This is a true life. Southern Gothic mystery author Ethan Brown offers us the story at the center of his book Murder in the Bayou who killed the women known as the Jeff Davis Eight. So let's start with how you found the story to begin with? You are a writer in New Orleans, is that right?

So the origins of this story are interesting. I moved to New Orleans right after Katrina. Really right after Katrina. Nobody was here, much of the city had still come back. Moved moved here primarily because I had been coming to New Orleans for many years and I had always wanted to move here. And in two thousand and five, I published a book with Random House about the federal money laundering case against a hip hop label called Murdering that had Joe Rule and Ashanti and a number of big hip hop stars at the time. So that book sort of put me in a space to where I could be more freelance and interested in books. I moved to New Orleans. I published a book in two thousand and nine about a very notorious murder suicide case involving an Iraq war veteran who survived Hurricane Katrina with his girlfriend. They were on the front page of the New York Times. They were in Gawker. They were like big Hurricane Katrina celebrities. He murdered her, dismembered her body, and then jumped off the roof of a hotel in the French Quorder. So I pulled used that book in two thousand and nine. And then actually at that point I was seeking to leave the media business for like a bunch of complicated reasons, and I started working at a law office in New Orleans that handled death penalty cases only I worked as a fact investigator and something called a mitigation specialist, which is somebody who creates very complex social histories of death penalty defendants. And in twenty ten I had a case in Calcashoe Parish, which is adjacent to Jeff Davis Parish. Now in Louisiana, the county system that exists everywhere else in America is called a parish, so New Orleans is actually Orleans Parish. So this case in Calcshue Parish was adjacent to Jeff Davis Parish, and I was in Calctry Parish quite a bit, and at the time there were billboards on I ten of the Jeff Davis State the women who became the Jeff Davia State and became the subject of my book, and I thought it was fascinating that there were these billboards up. And then in twenty ten, about the same time, a reporter at the New York Times named Campbell Robertson wrote a kind of introductory piece for the Jeff Davis Safecase for the New York Times, and it was beautifully written, both in terms of reporting out like what was known to date about the women, but then also just as importantly kind of setting the setting, so to speak, of Southwest Louisiana and Jeff Davis Parish. And I thought, wow, like, this is amazing. This is an amazing story of eight murdered women. It's an amazing story of a part of Louisiana nobody really talks or writes about. And then I was out there for my definitely work and I was like, I'm really getting the sort of cultural milieu out here. It's Cajun culture Southwest Louisiana, Cajun culture mixed with like I ten, trucking culture mixed with it ten drug trafficking culture mixed with rural crack cocaine culture. And my first book, The one that I referenced on Murder Ink. Half of that book took place in the crack era in New York City in the eighties, and it was fascinating to me that rural white people were sort of in the grips of a crack epidemic, but so many decades later. So even though I was doing definitely work at the time, I had this sort of thought of, like, you know, maybe I'll return to the media if there's something interesting, and this seemed to me to be something that was really interesting. So in the summer of twenty eleven, I had some time off of work and I just said, you know, I'm just going to go out to Jeftives Parish and talk to people and just see what they had to say about this case. Meet people. And there was no book, no article, nothing, just me and like a notebook. Basically, and partly because of the death only work that I've been doing where investigation is really entirely door knocking, I literally just walked around jeff Davis Parish and knocked on people's doors. It's got to talk to them about the case break, specifically the family members of the victims. And it was incredibly moving, not just because of how much the women were lobbed, obviously by their families, but because they let me and nobody in to their homes to have these very intimate conversations about their loved ones. And then I guess the last piece would be that, like, they said a lot of things about the sheriff's office, the parish sheriff, that were strikingly disturbing, about relationships that the women with members of the sheriff's office, about misconduct by the sheriff's office, about what people in the parish said about what the sheriff's office was doing in the drug trade. So we're just like, this is really fascinating. I pitched a piece about the Jeff Davis c to GQ magazine. The editor there that I pitched immediately took it, and we worked together on a long form piece about the Jeff Davis sad from about two thousand and eleven to the end of twenty and thirteen when he got hired by Medium and he took the piece over to Medium with it. I apologize for the long explanation here. It's in a very long road, both the long form piece, the book and the docs series. Yeah, it probably are about a decade work.

So the origins of this story are interesting. I moved to New Orleans right after Katrina. Really right after Katrina. Nobody was here, much of the city had still come back. Moved moved here primarily because I had been coming to New Orleans for many years and I had always wanted to move here. And in two thousand and five, I published a book with Random House about the federal money laundering case against a hip hop label called Murdering that had Joe Rule and Ashanti and a number of big hip hop stars at the time. So that book sort of put me in a space to where I could be more freelance and interested in books. I moved to New Orleans. I published a book in two thousand and nine about a very notorious murder suicide case involving an Iraq war veteran who survived Hurricane Katrina with his girlfriend. They were on the front page of the New York Times. They were in Gawker. They were like big Hurricane Katrina celebrities. He murdered her, dismembered her body, and then jumped off the roof of a hotel in the French Quorder. So I pulled used that book in two thousand and nine. And then actually at that point I was seeking to leave the media business for like a bunch of complicated reasons, and I started working at a law office in New Orleans that handled death penalty cases only I worked as a fact investigator and something called a mitigation specialist, which is somebody who creates very complex social histories of death penalty defendants. And in twenty ten I had a case in Calcashoe Parish, which is adjacent to Jeff Davis Parish. Now in Louisiana, the county system that exists everywhere else in America is called a parish, so New Orleans is actually Orleans Parish. So this case in Calcshue Parish was adjacent to Jeff Davis Parish, and I was in Calctry Parish quite a bit, and at the time there were billboards on I ten of the Jeff Davis State the women who became the Jeff Davia State and became the subject of my book, and I thought it was fascinating that there were these billboards up. And then in twenty ten, about the same time, a reporter at the New York Times named Campbell Robertson wrote a kind of introductory piece for the Jeff Davis Safecase for the New York Times, and it was beautifully written, both in terms of reporting out like what was known to date about the women, but then also just as importantly kind of setting the setting, so to speak, of Southwest Louisiana and Jeff Davis Parish. And I thought, wow, like, this is amazing. This is an amazing story of eight murdered women. It's an amazing story of a part of Louisiana nobody really talks or writes about. And then I was out there for my definitely work and I was like, I'm really getting the sort of cultural milieu out here. It's Cajun culture Southwest Louisiana, Cajun culture mixed with like I ten, trucking culture mixed with it ten drug trafficking culture mixed with rural crack cocaine culture. And my first book, The one that I referenced on Murder Ink. Half of that book took place in the crack era in New York City in the eighties, and it was fascinating to me that rural white people were sort of in the grips of a crack epidemic, but so many decades later. So even though I was doing definitely work at the time, I had this sort of thought of, like, you know, maybe I'll return to the media if there's something interesting, and this seemed to me to be something that was really interesting. So in the summer of twenty eleven, I had some time off of work and I just said, you know, I'm just going to go out to Jeftives Parish and talk to people and just see what they had to say about this case. Meet people. And there was no book, no article, nothing, just me and like a notebook. Basically, and partly because of the death only work that I've been doing where investigation is really entirely door knocking, I literally just walked around jeff Davis Parish and knocked on people's doors. It's got to talk to them about the case break, specifically the family members of the victims. And it was incredibly moving, not just because of how much the women were lobbed, obviously by their families, but because they let me and nobody in to their homes to have these very intimate conversations about their loved ones. And then I guess the last piece would be that, like, they said a lot of things about the sheriff's office, the parish sheriff, that were strikingly disturbing, about relationships that the women with members of the sheriff's office, about misconduct by the sheriff's office, about what people in the parish said about what the sheriff's office was doing in the drug trade. So we're just like, this is really fascinating. I pitched a piece about the Jeff Davis c to GQ magazine. The editor there that I pitched immediately took it, and we worked together on a long form piece about the Jeff Davis sad from about two thousand and eleven to the end of twenty and thirteen when he got hired by Medium and he took the piece over to Medium with it. I apologize for the long explanation here. It's in a very long road, both the long form piece, the book and the docs series. Yeah, it probably are about a decade work.

So this is the story that pulled you back into the media. Can you just tell me kind of from the beginning with the first victim, what do we know about what happened with her that day, and we could move forward.

So this is the story that pulled you back into the media. Can you just tell me kind of from the beginning with the first victim, what do we know about what happened with her that day, and we could move forward.

Loretta Chasson Lewis was the first victim. She was found floating in a canal in Jeff Davis Parrish. There is not a ton known about her in terms of her whereabouts prior to her being killed. I believe in her case, she was suspected of being asphyxiated and then dumped in this canal. There were rumors going around. I think they persist that she overdosed and was simply dumped by nervous people about the overdose. I've looked at her talks in autopsy and I see no evidence of that. So it appears to be strangulation of some kind and then her being dumped in this canal. She was found actually by a fisherman who I interviewed, who talks about fishing in the canal and seeing what he thought was a mannequin floating down the canal and it was Loretta.

Loretta Chasson Lewis was the first victim. She was found floating in a canal in Jeff Davis Parrish. There is not a ton known about her in terms of her whereabouts prior to her being killed. I believe in her case, she was suspected of being asphyxiated and then dumped in this canal. There were rumors going around. I think they persist that she overdosed and was simply dumped by nervous people about the overdose. I've looked at her talks in autopsy and I see no evidence of that. So it appears to be strangulation of some kind and then her being dumped in this canal. She was found actually by a fisherman who I interviewed, who talks about fishing in the canal and seeing what he thought was a mannequin floating down the canal and it was Loretta.

Now let me ask you real quick, I have to imagine that New Orleans, Louisiana in general has a history of bodies being hidden in swamps and canals. Is it the idea that the decomp will accelerate because of the weather, or they'll be eaten by crabs or alligators? Is this very common as a dumping ground.

Now let me ask you real quick, I have to imagine that New Orleans, Louisiana in general has a history of bodies being hidden in swamps and canals. Is it the idea that the decomp will accelerate because of the weather, or they'll be eaten by crabs or alligators? Is this very common as a dumping ground.

That's an interesting question. You know. When I started working on this, I was very friendly with a criminologist at Tulane who actually is deceased as of a couple of years ago. He was a very smart guy and his wife is Cajun, and when I started working on this, she said, oh, you know, in this area, when people are deemed undesirables, they're killed and sort of dumped like trash. And that always stayed with me. I think that sort of understanding Louisiana geography. If you don't live here and don't know a lot about Louisiana, New Orleans, Baton, Rouge, Shreve, Pork, those are all like pretty major cities, not major in the New York and Los Angeles sense, but pretty significant cities. And they're not rural. So this phenomenon that you're talking about of like somebody dumped in the woods or dumped in the canal that's really only sort of confined to an area like this, like southwest Louisiana, like rural parts of the state. It's not a lot of the state. It's not something you see really with any kind of regularity outside of very rural parts of the state.

That's an interesting question. You know. When I started working on this, I was very friendly with a criminologist at Tulane who actually is deceased as of a couple of years ago. He was a very smart guy and his wife is Cajun, and when I started working on this, she said, oh, you know, in this area, when people are deemed undesirables, they're killed and sort of dumped like trash. And that always stayed with me. I think that sort of understanding Louisiana geography. If you don't live here and don't know a lot about Louisiana, New Orleans, Baton, Rouge, Shreve, Pork, those are all like pretty major cities, not major in the New York and Los Angeles sense, but pretty significant cities. And they're not rural. So this phenomenon that you're talking about of like somebody dumped in the woods or dumped in the canal that's really only sort of confined to an area like this, like southwest Louisiana, like rural parts of the state. It's not a lot of the state. It's not something you see really with any kind of regularity outside of very rural parts of the state.

Now you write that at this time, Jennings is about you said about ten thousand, Is that right? Not a very big city.

Now you write that at this time, Jennings is about you said about ten thousand, Is that right? Not a very big city.

Correct, Yeah, it's about it's a talent of about ten thousand people, and the entire parish is about thirty thousand people.

Correct, Yeah, it's about it's a talent of about ten thousand people, and the entire parish is about thirty thousand people.

And how many people are in the sheriff's department who would be working these kinds of cases. Gosh, I mean not very many. I can't imagine.

And how many people are in the sheriff's department who would be working these kinds of cases. Gosh, I mean not very many. I can't imagine.

Not many. So I should say a new sheriff is coming into office next month, So I say this to say, the person handling these cases, person singular, is going to be out his name Ramby Cormier. So you know, is there some investigative muscle sort of outside of Ramby if there is not much? In two thousand and nine, after the last body was found, a multi agency task force was created that involved state law enforcement, federal law enforcement, and perish level law enforcement. Now in that moment, and it was a brief moment. There was quite a bit of investigative muscle on this, but that was again over a decade ago, and it was a very brief period. So to answer your question, like, really, there's like a point person in the sheriff's office and then you know whoever might work with him on it.

Not many. So I should say a new sheriff is coming into office next month, So I say this to say, the person handling these cases, person singular, is going to be out his name Ramby Cormier. So you know, is there some investigative muscle sort of outside of Ramby if there is not much? In two thousand and nine, after the last body was found, a multi agency task force was created that involved state law enforcement, federal law enforcement, and perish level law enforcement. Now in that moment, and it was a brief moment. There was quite a bit of investigative muscle on this, but that was again over a decade ago, and it was a very brief period. So to answer your question, like, really, there's like a point person in the sheriff's office and then you know whoever might work with him on it.

What is the general reaction as far as you know of the discovery of this first body. You know, we don't know if it's a serial killer or anything, because we just have a sex worker who was also a drug addict who's found in a canal. But this is also a small town. So was this something that shook the town when she was discovered?

What is the general reaction as far as you know of the discovery of this first body. You know, we don't know if it's a serial killer or anything, because we just have a sex worker who was also a drug addict who's found in a canal. But this is also a small town. So was this something that shook the town when she was discovered?

Now? I think the reaction after Loreno was found was fairly muted. I think it was very upsetting obviously to her immediate family and social circle, but I don't think it really penetrated outside of that much. I should add to that that this is a perish with a long history of unsolved homicides, with a long history of very deep law enforcement misconduct. It's a place where, like trust, it's almost nonexistent. So this happening meeting her death, you could see it as like a continuation of a long pattern, or you could see it as like one of many bad things that happen in this place and sort of almost go unnoticed, if that makes sense.

Now? I think the reaction after Loreno was found was fairly muted. I think it was very upsetting obviously to her immediate family and social circle, but I don't think it really penetrated outside of that much. I should add to that that this is a perish with a long history of unsolved homicides, with a long history of very deep law enforcement misconduct. It's a place where, like trust, it's almost nonexistent. So this happening meeting her death, you could see it as like a continuation of a long pattern, or you could see it as like one of many bad things that happen in this place and sort of almost go unnoticed, if that makes sense.

So after Loretta, how much time is there before the second woman who we think is part of this string of murders appears.

So after Loretta, how much time is there before the second woman who we think is part of this string of murders appears.

It is a matter of months. Ernestine Murray Daniels Patterson is the second victim in June of two thousand and five.

It is a matter of months. Ernestine Murray Daniels Patterson is the second victim in June of two thousand and five.

Okay, same type of circumstance. What happens with Ernestine is she in a canal.

Okay, same type of circumstance. What happens with Ernestine is she in a canal.

Also, she is in a swamp. Basically she's stabbed to death, so there's a much more clear cause of death in this fun She is from a part of South Jennings that is segregated, segregated within the segregation. It's an odd way to phrase it, but it's like a very very small, predominantly black part of South Jennings, and it's pretty rough too, even for Jennings, which is a rough place. She's interesting because she had been married. I think at one point she was quite religious. She got lost in the crack cocaine world in Jennings. I think there was a lot of sadness around he in that, like she was just sort of pulled away by the kind of undertow of drugs and sex and Jennings and Jef Davis Parish. But again, like I don't believe even after the second one, there's significant panic or anything like that, because she.

Also, she is in a swamp. Basically she's stabbed to death, so there's a much more clear cause of death in this fun She is from a part of South Jennings that is segregated, segregated within the segregation. It's an odd way to phrase it, but it's like a very very small, predominantly black part of South Jennings, and it's pretty rough too, even for Jennings, which is a rough place. She's interesting because she had been married. I think at one point she was quite religious. She got lost in the crack cocaine world in Jennings. I think there was a lot of sadness around he in that, like she was just sort of pulled away by the kind of undertow of drugs and sex and Jennings and Jef Davis Parish. But again, like I don't believe even after the second one, there's significant panic or anything like that, because she.

Said there's been a culture of crimes happening and them not being investigated either. It sounds like from ineptitude or understaffing or corruption, one of the three. So it doesn't sound like this is a surprise to anybody, that's exactly right. So after Ernestine, who's in a swamp? I mean, just as a side note, it sounds like it's a miracle that anybody is found in a canal or particularly a swamp. I would guess is this a fisherman situation with Ernestine?

Said there's been a culture of crimes happening and them not being investigated either. It sounds like from ineptitude or understaffing or corruption, one of the three. So it doesn't sound like this is a surprise to anybody, that's exactly right. So after Ernestine, who's in a swamp? I mean, just as a side note, it sounds like it's a miracle that anybody is found in a canal or particularly a swamp. I would guess is this a fisherman situation with Ernestine?

Also, yeah, she was found by froggers. Oh, in Louisiana, there's a frogging culture, meaning people out catching frogs to eat. And I believe that she was found in the middle of the night by a group of froggers.

Also, yeah, she was found by froggers. Oh, in Louisiana, there's a frogging culture, meaning people out catching frogs to eat. And I believe that she was found in the middle of the night by a group of froggers.

How terrifying.

How terrifying.

Yeah, like really terrifying, especially given both the decomposition of the body because of environmental reasons, and then like it's a very gory death. It's not like being strangled to death. It's very brutal stabbing to death, so very upsetting.

Yeah, like really terrifying, especially given both the decomposition of the body because of environmental reasons, and then like it's a very gory death. It's not like being strangled to death. It's very brutal stabbing to death, so very upsetting.

So after Ernestine, we have how long do you think before the next victim comes.

So after Ernestine, we have how long do you think before the next victim comes.

The next victim is in two thousand and seven, about a year. Yeah, there are two back to back and these two raise alarms in a big way for a few reasons. One they're back to back and two you hit murders three d and four pretty fast. Right. So the two homicides are Kristin Gary Lopez and Whitney do Wah. And that's in the spring of two thousand and seven.

The next victim is in two thousand and seven, about a year. Yeah, there are two back to back and these two raise alarms in a big way for a few reasons. One they're back to back and two you hit murders three d and four pretty fast. Right. So the two homicides are Kristin Gary Lopez and Whitney do Wah. And that's in the spring of two thousand and seven.

What's the span between the two of them?

What's the span between the two of them?

Very close, really a matter of weeks. Kristin Gary Lopez and Whitney do Wall both who were murdered in the spring of two thousand and five. Their murders are really weeks apart. And both of these women are connected very closely to Frankie Richard. He was not just a pimp. He was a very big drug dealer. He was very savvy about his relationship with law enforcement. He like traded information to them to get out of trouble. His family had a long history in the area, which is a big deal in the small.

Very close, really a matter of weeks. Kristin Gary Lopez and Whitney do Wall both who were murdered in the spring of two thousand and five. Their murders are really weeks apart. And both of these women are connected very closely to Frankie Richard. He was not just a pimp. He was a very big drug dealer. He was very savvy about his relationship with law enforcement. He like traded information to them to get out of trouble. His family had a long history in the area, which is a big deal in the small.

Town Okay, so they are found and this causes panic because you said they're close together. But these are still sex workers from South Jennings. So who is panicking besides their families? Is it everybody or is it particularly the people in South Jennings who are sort of racing themselves.

Town Okay, so they are found and this causes panic because you said they're close together. But these are still sex workers from South Jennings. So who is panicking besides their families? Is it everybody or is it particularly the people in South Jennings who are sort of racing themselves.

The people who are panicking are still at this point largely confined South Jennings. Even with three and four, the Tower and the parish as a whole can say, oh, you know, sex workers or people with substance abuse problems, you know, not us. I think there's a lot of fear in South Jennings. And then very briefly, there's an attempt to bring homicide charges in Kristin Gary Lopez's case against Frankie Rashard and his goddaughter. Those charges go nowhere, and Frankie Rashard is back in South Jennings, like almost instantaneously, And this feeds into what I was saying earlier about this guy in Unity. It's like, oh, we have four homicides now a seemingly good case against Rashard because they had a witness in Kristin Gary Lopez, a first hand witness who described Frankie murdering her so you have these four cases. You have like seemingly good case in the third one, christ Gary Lopez, and then suspect is just back in South Jennings. Frankie has started at a family home. It's still there, I believe, in South Jennings, and he would sit on the front porch of the family home. If you can imagine, like imagine yourself living in a town of ten thousand people, but South Jennings is even a smaller part of that ten thousand, right, Imagine if you lived in a town of a few hundred people and someone suspected in four homicides is just sitting and smiling on their front porch. You know, it's just unreal how intimidating that is. And I think at that point and murders three and four, it's like whatever's doing this, it's getting away with it, right because there's no prosecutions in any of these cases, and whoever's doing this is like really comfortable in their position. I'm not worried about anything. So like, what is going to happen next?

The people who are panicking are still at this point largely confined South Jennings. Even with three and four, the Tower and the parish as a whole can say, oh, you know, sex workers or people with substance abuse problems, you know, not us. I think there's a lot of fear in South Jennings. And then very briefly, there's an attempt to bring homicide charges in Kristin Gary Lopez's case against Frankie Rashard and his goddaughter. Those charges go nowhere, and Frankie Rashard is back in South Jennings, like almost instantaneously, And this feeds into what I was saying earlier about this guy in Unity. It's like, oh, we have four homicides now a seemingly good case against Rashard because they had a witness in Kristin Gary Lopez, a first hand witness who described Frankie murdering her so you have these four cases. You have like seemingly good case in the third one, christ Gary Lopez, and then suspect is just back in South Jennings. Frankie has started at a family home. It's still there, I believe, in South Jennings, and he would sit on the front porch of the family home. If you can imagine, like imagine yourself living in a town of ten thousand people, but South Jennings is even a smaller part of that ten thousand, right, Imagine if you lived in a town of a few hundred people and someone suspected in four homicides is just sitting and smiling on their front porch. You know, it's just unreal how intimidating that is. And I think at that point and murders three and four, it's like whatever's doing this, it's getting away with it, right because there's no prosecutions in any of these cases, and whoever's doing this is like really comfortable in their position. I'm not worried about anything. So like, what is going to happen next?

What is the witness saying before we talk about why this didn't go forward, what is the witness saying led to Kristen's murder, what was happening between Kristin and Frankie that night.

What is the witness saying before we talk about why this didn't go forward, what is the witness saying led to Kristen's murder, what was happening between Kristin and Frankie that night.

So the witness in the case gives this incredibly detailed story about doing drugs with Frankie Richard and Kristin Gary Lopez, and that there was some kind of dispute happening between Kristin and Frankie over drugs. There's some kind of dispute happening between Kristin and Frankie over like Frankie forcing Kristen to perform oral sex on him. There is a description of a fight. This is where it gets difficult, sort of conflicting descriptions about the death. A version of events that has Kristen being held under water and drowned, I think, another version that has her being strangled to death, and this group are kind of on the outskirts of Jennings where Kristen's body was found when all this goes down in a truck. It's a compelling witness account with a lot of details, but it has a lack of clarity in pieces, particularly around the murder itself, and it's being told by somebody who is doing crack cocaine with the principles in the case and then I think at one point she says, you know, oh, I gobbled like a handful of xanax after this happened, because I was like so panic stricken, I couldn't even function. So this person's extremely impaired. Who's giving this statement? You know? Again, all that said, though, it's a pretty compelling firsthand statement. You know, it puts Frankie where he needs to be put in terms of the homicide, and there's a motive and sort of all the elements. Again, nonetheless, like the case against him fizzles, and I believe it fizzles even before it goes to the DA's office. They're like arrests, warrants or affidavits drawn up and then quickly withdraw So there's not even a prosecution or even an attempted prosecution in this case.

So the witness in the case gives this incredibly detailed story about doing drugs with Frankie Richard and Kristin Gary Lopez, and that there was some kind of dispute happening between Kristin and Frankie over drugs. There's some kind of dispute happening between Kristin and Frankie over like Frankie forcing Kristen to perform oral sex on him. There is a description of a fight. This is where it gets difficult, sort of conflicting descriptions about the death. A version of events that has Kristen being held under water and drowned, I think, another version that has her being strangled to death, and this group are kind of on the outskirts of Jennings where Kristen's body was found when all this goes down in a truck. It's a compelling witness account with a lot of details, but it has a lack of clarity in pieces, particularly around the murder itself, and it's being told by somebody who is doing crack cocaine with the principles in the case and then I think at one point she says, you know, oh, I gobbled like a handful of xanax after this happened, because I was like so panic stricken, I couldn't even function. So this person's extremely impaired. Who's giving this statement? You know? Again, all that said, though, it's a pretty compelling firsthand statement. You know, it puts Frankie where he needs to be put in terms of the homicide, and there's a motive and sort of all the elements. Again, nonetheless, like the case against him fizzles, and I believe it fizzles even before it goes to the DA's office. They're like arrests, warrants or affidavits drawn up and then quickly withdraw So there's not even a prosecution or even an attempted prosecution in this case.

Just out of curiosity. Did they find water in her lungs?

Just out of curiosity. Did they find water in her lungs?

There was like light mixed drug intoxication. The manner of death is undetermined, The cause of death is undetermined. There is extensive damage from what they call marine artifacts.

There was like light mixed drug intoxication. The manner of death is undetermined, The cause of death is undetermined. There is extensive damage from what they call marine artifacts.

She was chewed on.

She was chewed on.

She was chewed on because she was in not a swamp like Earnesty, but a very a marshy kind of area, and so you know, I don't believe there's any kind of notation about water and the lungs or anything like that.

She was chewed on because she was in not a swamp like Earnesty, but a very a marshy kind of area, and so you know, I don't believe there's any kind of notation about water and the lungs or anything like that.

And it might have been she might have been so decomposed or the lungs were so damaged that I was just curious because you said drowning and it's like, well, that's easy to kind of corrobrate exactly right, But I mean, you know, that totally depends on the on the body. So we're halfway through, We've had the murders of four women. Are we pretty convinced by body four that Frankie is responsible for all four of these women?

And it might have been she might have been so decomposed or the lungs were so damaged that I was just curious because you said drowning and it's like, well, that's easy to kind of corrobrate exactly right, But I mean, you know, that totally depends on the on the body. So we're halfway through, We've had the murders of four women. Are we pretty convinced by body four that Frankie is responsible for all four of these women?

I would say he's responsible for two, which would be Kristen Garry Lopez and Winnie du Wah victims three and four. Okay, I think it's pretty safe to say that. And Yeah, to your question, what attention is happening at this point, you know, not a lot. There's a reporter at the local newspaper named Scott Lewis who is trying to cover these cases but has like extremely limited resources, you know, because this time any paper. And then there's also like a lot of fear and pushback and whatnot to do his job because it's a small town. It's a small paper. The sheriff back then was a guy named Ricky Edwards. He had been sheriff forever. I believe he comes into office in the early nineties, so you're talking about like twenty years. Basically, Louisiana sheriffs are kings. This is true. I think it's in some respects in other states because the sheriff's system is not like the police chief system. Police chiefs are appointed by mayors, right, so like Eric Adams in New York appoints his police chief and whatnot. Sheriffs are elected and there's really no accountability mechanism at all for sheriffs. So saying I'd like to say, like, this is a sheriff who'd been in office a very long time, and he had also, by the way, endured a scandal in the mid to late nineties where Dateline NBC, of all things, came down to Jeff Davis Parish. It's truly remarkable you think about it, because Dateline is this huge national show. What would they care about what's going on in Jeff Davis Parish. They came down to Jeff Davis Parish to expose basically Shareff's deputies framing people in various kinds of cases on the interstate. So he has survived like incredible national attention from that scandal, and so there was definitely a feeling that, like, he can survive anything. So Scott Lewis, the Jennings Daily News reporter, is kind of working under those circumstances, and he's, you know, doing a decent job. And I think, you know, he's talked to me about this and talked in the doc about it, Like I think a lot of what he was doing was just trying to get people to care at all about this, Like, you know, you're on homicide number four in a town of ten thousand people, Like that's incredibly alarming. Yeah, and yet nobody seems to care outside of the familial and social circle of these women. And so I think like Scott's job was, like, how do I get people to even care about this? Not even so much like how do I do like any kind of real hoarding it, I get people to care. So I don't believe there's really any national attention on whatsoever at that point in O seven, it's just Scott Lewis.

I would say he's responsible for two, which would be Kristen Garry Lopez and Winnie du Wah victims three and four. Okay, I think it's pretty safe to say that. And Yeah, to your question, what attention is happening at this point, you know, not a lot. There's a reporter at the local newspaper named Scott Lewis who is trying to cover these cases but has like extremely limited resources, you know, because this time any paper. And then there's also like a lot of fear and pushback and whatnot to do his job because it's a small town. It's a small paper. The sheriff back then was a guy named Ricky Edwards. He had been sheriff forever. I believe he comes into office in the early nineties, so you're talking about like twenty years. Basically, Louisiana sheriffs are kings. This is true. I think it's in some respects in other states because the sheriff's system is not like the police chief system. Police chiefs are appointed by mayors, right, so like Eric Adams in New York appoints his police chief and whatnot. Sheriffs are elected and there's really no accountability mechanism at all for sheriffs. So saying I'd like to say, like, this is a sheriff who'd been in office a very long time, and he had also, by the way, endured a scandal in the mid to late nineties where Dateline NBC, of all things, came down to Jeff Davis Parish. It's truly remarkable you think about it, because Dateline is this huge national show. What would they care about what's going on in Jeff Davis Parish. They came down to Jeff Davis Parish to expose basically Shareff's deputies framing people in various kinds of cases on the interstate. So he has survived like incredible national attention from that scandal, and so there was definitely a feeling that, like, he can survive anything. So Scott Lewis, the Jennings Daily News reporter, is kind of working under those circumstances, and he's, you know, doing a decent job. And I think, you know, he's talked to me about this and talked in the doc about it, Like I think a lot of what he was doing was just trying to get people to care at all about this, Like, you know, you're on homicide number four in a town of ten thousand people, Like that's incredibly alarming. Yeah, and yet nobody seems to care outside of the familial and social circle of these women. And so I think like Scott's job was, like, how do I get people to even care about this? Not even so much like how do I do like any kind of real hoarding it, I get people to care. So I don't believe there's really any national attention on whatsoever at that point in O seven, it's just Scott Lewis.

Really before we talk about the second half of the women, are you thinking with these first four women, I know two we're connecting to Frankie Rochard. But for all four of these, the inaction from the Sheriff's Department or the DA whoever is really going to be the one that would take the mantle and investigate this. Is this malfiss Is this nefarious? Is this you know, maybe deputies are the ones who killed these first two women? Or is this simply we don't give a shit about sex worker and people from South Jennings. Which is it? Do you think?

Really before we talk about the second half of the women, are you thinking with these first four women, I know two we're connecting to Frankie Rochard. But for all four of these, the inaction from the Sheriff's Department or the DA whoever is really going to be the one that would take the mantle and investigate this. Is this malfiss Is this nefarious? Is this you know, maybe deputies are the ones who killed these first two women? Or is this simply we don't give a shit about sex worker and people from South Jennings. Which is it? Do you think?

I mean, I think everything you're saying feeds into this, meaning that it's like malfeasance, corruption, lack of care, you know, the malfeasance part of this is to simplify it prittly on three and four. In two thousand and seven, again Kristin and Whitney. So at the end of two thousand and seven, a couple of witnesses come forward to the Jennings Police Department, not the Sheriff's office, and they say that Frankie Rashard and Warren Gary, who was a high ranking member of the Sheriff's office, our best friends, and that Warren Gary helped Frankie dispose of evidence that was in the truck where Kristin was killed, and that Warren Gary disposes of the evidence and that actually sells the truck afterward, and Gary actually gets in trouble with the state Ethics Board for the sale of this truck. So it's not some fantastical story that someone sort of dreamed up. It's like a very real thing, unfortunately. And so when these witnesses go to the the Jennings Police about this, some recordings are taken of their witness statements. The police officer is a very small police department, so like if you imagine the parish sheriff's office is being much larger because it's you know, representing a paish of thirty thousand people, right, the police department's only representing a little tiny town of ten thousand people. So Jenny's police is tiny. The police officer took these statements is like completely freaked out, I don't know how else to put it, because he has, you know, potential evidence of like astonishing high level cover up of a homicide involving someone at the sheriff's office who's the high ranking member up there, and he's, you know, what to do. He hands the recordings over to a local private investigator. He's so concerned. Now, it's sort of an odd choice. The private investigator then takes the recordings to the FBI office, which is in Lake Charles, Louisiana, an adjacent Kalkashite Parish. Instead of really anything happening as a result of those interviews, an investigation is initiated into the police officer who took the statement.

I mean, I think everything you're saying feeds into this, meaning that it's like malfeasance, corruption, lack of care, you know, the malfeasance part of this is to simplify it prittly on three and four. In two thousand and seven, again Kristin and Whitney. So at the end of two thousand and seven, a couple of witnesses come forward to the Jennings Police Department, not the Sheriff's office, and they say that Frankie Rashard and Warren Gary, who was a high ranking member of the Sheriff's office, our best friends, and that Warren Gary helped Frankie dispose of evidence that was in the truck where Kristin was killed, and that Warren Gary disposes of the evidence and that actually sells the truck afterward, and Gary actually gets in trouble with the state Ethics Board for the sale of this truck. So it's not some fantastical story that someone sort of dreamed up. It's like a very real thing, unfortunately. And so when these witnesses go to the the Jennings Police about this, some recordings are taken of their witness statements. The police officer is a very small police department, so like if you imagine the parish sheriff's office is being much larger because it's you know, representing a paish of thirty thousand people, right, the police department's only representing a little tiny town of ten thousand people. So Jenny's police is tiny. The police officer took these statements is like completely freaked out, I don't know how else to put it, because he has, you know, potential evidence of like astonishing high level cover up of a homicide involving someone at the sheriff's office who's the high ranking member up there, and he's, you know, what to do. He hands the recordings over to a local private investigator. He's so concerned. Now, it's sort of an odd choice. The private investigator then takes the recordings to the FBI office, which is in Lake Charles, Louisiana, an adjacent Kalkashite Parish. Instead of really anything happening as a result of those interviews, an investigation is initiated into the police officer who took the statement.

That's what you get.

That's what you get.

Yeah, and the Louisiana State Police are actually involved in this investigation. And this guy's in big trouble. I believe. It's called some kind of public records related offense.

Yeah, and the Louisiana State Police are actually involved in this investigation. And this guy's in big trouble. I believe. It's called some kind of public records related offense.

Oh, I'm sure, giving it to a civilian. I mean he turned over records, official owned records by the police department to a civilian, you know, private detective.

Oh, I'm sure, giving it to a civilian. I mean he turned over records, official owned records by the police department to a civilian, you know, private detective.

Yeah, it was a public record statute, I think, and then also some kind of malfeasance in office statue.

Yeah, it was a public record statute, I think, and then also some kind of malfeasance in office statue.

Oh my gosh.

Oh my gosh.

He was in pretty significant trouble. This is being reported on in the local media, so people are looking at this and they're saying, Okay, nothing happening in these four homicide cases. Victim number three, Kristin Gary Lopez, has a suspect, Frankie Richard. That person's just returned to the streets. He's free. Now we learn that two witnesses came forward to the Jennings police gave statements, and nothing is happening related to the statements. But what is happening is the person who took the statements, the officer took the statements, is being criminally investigated. So what's going on here? My goodness, this is like the malfeasans piece of it, which involves the evidence in the truck, which involves criminally investigating an officer who took these statements, implicating someone in the sheriff's office. Like this is now kind of the overhang of this entire case in the parish. You really can't think about it without thinking about those things.

He was in pretty significant trouble. This is being reported on in the local media, so people are looking at this and they're saying, Okay, nothing happening in these four homicide cases. Victim number three, Kristin Gary Lopez, has a suspect, Frankie Richard. That person's just returned to the streets. He's free. Now we learn that two witnesses came forward to the Jennings police gave statements, and nothing is happening related to the statements. But what is happening is the person who took the statements, the officer took the statements, is being criminally investigated. So what's going on here? My goodness, this is like the malfeasans piece of it, which involves the evidence in the truck, which involves criminally investigating an officer who took these statements, implicating someone in the sheriff's office. Like this is now kind of the overhang of this entire case in the parish. You really can't think about it without thinking about those things.

We have four women left in this string between two thousand and seven now and two thousand and nine. Can you kind of give me an overview of what happens after? So the last victim that we've talked about is Whitney, and who comes after Whitney and what is her story?

We have four women left in this string between two thousand and seven now and two thousand and nine. Can you kind of give me an overview of what happens after? So the last victim that we've talked about is Whitney, and who comes after Whitney and what is her story?

Laconia Brown comes after Whitney in two thousand and eight, So there's a bit of a lag here between murders, and that's actually, you know what it's about a year lag. Laconia Brown is found in May of two thousand and eight. She is a black woman like Ernestine Patterson, and I had mentioned this earlier. The two black women were stabbed a death. So Conia Brown is brutally stabbed to death and left on a rural dirt road in South Jennings, a very strange part of town but used to have like a police shooting range. And it's weird. It's like it's a long rural road and when you ride on the road, you can feel like you're fifty miles from anything. But actually if you come back towards town, which is the south side of town, you're back into town within like two minutes, so that makes sense. It's odd. It almost throws off your perception where you feel like when you go down the road, you're like, wow, I am I miles and miles from anything, but in actuality you're only like a few miles from from South Jennings. So she's she's murdered and dumped out there on the throne in South Jennings. She had like a very extensive reputation in South Jennings. Is kind of like a Swiss army knife hustler, okay, meaning and I don't say this in a derogatory way, like and this is an odd way to put it, but it's kind of the only way that I can put it. Like, there's a there's a player on the New Orleans Saints who gets referred to as as a Swiss army knife, meaning that he could do like eighty different things, and Laconia Brown is sort of the Swiss Army Knife of the of the underworld. Jennings. Wow, she was like a drug dealer, sex worker. She would this is very ugly. Men would pay her to set up women so that they could rape them. Oh gosh, really dark, stuck. I'm not sort of telling tales like these are things that you see when you read police reports about her and like her case files and stuff. It's like really rough stuff. So I think that even though she's victim number five, this is someone who's like incredibly well known in the underworld in Jennings. So there's almost like, again, we're still not waking people up about this, you know what I mean, even on five and maybe you know again, like I hope that no one listening to the things that I'm saying, Like, you know, she had it coming or like to what happens when you do so, and so it's not that at all. It's like it's almost like Laconia Brown being so well known in the underworld is like another way to be like, Okay, you know this is sad, but like this is what happens.

Laconia Brown comes after Whitney in two thousand and eight, So there's a bit of a lag here between murders, and that's actually, you know what it's about a year lag. Laconia Brown is found in May of two thousand and eight. She is a black woman like Ernestine Patterson, and I had mentioned this earlier. The two black women were stabbed a death. So Conia Brown is brutally stabbed to death and left on a rural dirt road in South Jennings, a very strange part of town but used to have like a police shooting range. And it's weird. It's like it's a long rural road and when you ride on the road, you can feel like you're fifty miles from anything. But actually if you come back towards town, which is the south side of town, you're back into town within like two minutes, so that makes sense. It's odd. It almost throws off your perception where you feel like when you go down the road, you're like, wow, I am I miles and miles from anything, but in actuality you're only like a few miles from from South Jennings. So she's she's murdered and dumped out there on the throne in South Jennings. She had like a very extensive reputation in South Jennings. Is kind of like a Swiss army knife hustler, okay, meaning and I don't say this in a derogatory way, like and this is an odd way to put it, but it's kind of the only way that I can put it. Like, there's a there's a player on the New Orleans Saints who gets referred to as as a Swiss army knife, meaning that he could do like eighty different things, and Laconia Brown is sort of the Swiss Army Knife of the of the underworld. Jennings. Wow, she was like a drug dealer, sex worker. She would this is very ugly. Men would pay her to set up women so that they could rape them. Oh gosh, really dark, stuck. I'm not sort of telling tales like these are things that you see when you read police reports about her and like her case files and stuff. It's like really rough stuff. So I think that even though she's victim number five, this is someone who's like incredibly well known in the underworld in Jennings. So there's almost like, again, we're still not waking people up about this, you know what I mean, even on five and maybe you know again, like I hope that no one listening to the things that I'm saying, Like, you know, she had it coming or like to what happens when you do so, and so it's not that at all. It's like it's almost like Laconia Brown being so well known in the underworld is like another way to be like, Okay, you know this is sad, but like this is what happens.

Right, It's not gonna affect me because I don't do stuff like that exactly.

Right, It's not gonna affect me because I don't do stuff like that exactly.

So that and again that one's in May of eight, which is about a year after.

So that and again that one's in May of eight, which is about a year after.

Who comes after Laconia.

Who comes after Laconia.

So this is an interesting one. So after Laconia is Crystal Sha benoit Zeno. She is found in a wooded area on September eleventh, two thousand and eight, and she had been missing for weeks at that point. So her body was so decomposed to the point that one of the people who found her described to this like finding animal bones. Does that make sense? Yeah, And I believe in her case because of a decomp like there's an undetermined cause of death. Bristol had like very significant mental health issues. I believe she was bipolar and was sort of like floating around between like her mom's house and other places. She was a bit older, I think than the other women she was in her mid twenties, and she also was close with Frankie Richard. And later on it will come out that a man who was smoking crack in the woods near where her body was found saw a group of men leaving the crime scene soon after she was murdered. This man not only saw this group of men, he identified by name a number of people in the group I believe, went to law enforcement about it, and then sometime later was run over by a train and law enforcement said that he laid on the train cracks to commit suicide, and his sister, who I knew really well, says that he was actually placed there with.

So this is an interesting one. So after Laconia is Crystal Sha benoit Zeno. She is found in a wooded area on September eleventh, two thousand and eight, and she had been missing for weeks at that point. So her body was so decomposed to the point that one of the people who found her described to this like finding animal bones. Does that make sense? Yeah, And I believe in her case because of a decomp like there's an undetermined cause of death. Bristol had like very significant mental health issues. I believe she was bipolar and was sort of like floating around between like her mom's house and other places. She was a bit older, I think than the other women she was in her mid twenties, and she also was close with Frankie Richard. And later on it will come out that a man who was smoking crack in the woods near where her body was found saw a group of men leaving the crime scene soon after she was murdered. This man not only saw this group of men, he identified by name a number of people in the group I believe, went to law enforcement about it, and then sometime later was run over by a train and law enforcement said that he laid on the train cracks to commit suicide, and his sister, who I knew really well, says that he was actually placed there with.

Those are not stories that go on the Jennings Tourist board website, certainly. I mean, my goodness, Okay, we've got two left after Crystal. So Crystal's in, you said September of two thousand and eight, and we go to two thousand and nine. Who were the last two or who's the next one after Crystal?

Those are not stories that go on the Jennings Tourist board website, certainly. I mean, my goodness, Okay, we've got two left after Crystal. So Crystal's in, you said September of two thousand and eight, and we go to two thousand and nine. Who were the last two or who's the next one after Crystal?

So we're actually still in two thousand and eight. Brittany Gary is a really young woman who's found in like I believe, King Fields out on the outskirts of Jennings. Another one with a lot of decomposition. She'd been lost for a while and there was actually a search party for her that ends with her body being found. It was also close with Frankie Richard. Her mother was very close with Frankie, and leave that in her case as well. There's a lack of determination of the cause of death just because she'd been out for soil. Yeah, And then finally and she is found like in the fall of two thousand and eight, November fifteen, two thousand and eight, sorry to be specific. Then the last murder is the summer of two thousand and nine, and it's interesting because this is the only one where the body is found not in jeff Davis Parish. Her name is Nicole Gillery. She is found in neighboring Acadia Parish by it tent. It's interesting because it tent is extremely well traveled in this area. This is like how you can get to Houston. So she's found in August of two thousand and nine, and she, sort of like Laconia Brown, is very well known in the Jennings underworld. But then there's this other piece about Nicole that's really interesting, which is, like a lot of these women, she was in trouble lot and was in the parish jail lot. But Nicole was a witness in the case that involved the DA's office, sheriff's office, the FBI, and the state police. This was a case in the early two thousands, not actually too far off from when these homicides started in two thousand and five, where Nicole witnessed sheriff's deputies basically running a human trafficking ring out of the parish jail. So it's interesting she would allude to this when she spoke to her mother, like, you know, she would say things like I know all of these things about the sheriff's office, you know, or like I know too much, or like I'm going to be killed because of things that I know. I think at one when she even hid, and I believe that when she was found in August of nine, like I think her mother just assumed, oh, she's hiding from the sheriff's office again, she'll turn off. And so in my reporting about this for the documentary, I was able to actually pull the files from the Louis Naca Police, from the FBI, from the DA's office, from the sheriff's office about this human trafficking ring and the extent of it was absolutely extraordinary, involved many people working in the jail. Sexually assaulting and trafficking these women was not some kind of outlier activity. It was the bread and butter of the men who worked at this jail. And Nicole was a witness to all this. And I actually have and some of this is in the documentary. We obtained a videotaped interview of Cole wow about all that. I believe the Sheriff's off was recorded on vhs like in the early two thousands.

So we're actually still in two thousand and eight. Brittany Gary is a really young woman who's found in like I believe, King Fields out on the outskirts of Jennings. Another one with a lot of decomposition. She'd been lost for a while and there was actually a search party for her that ends with her body being found. It was also close with Frankie Richard. Her mother was very close with Frankie, and leave that in her case as well. There's a lack of determination of the cause of death just because she'd been out for soil. Yeah, And then finally and she is found like in the fall of two thousand and eight, November fifteen, two thousand and eight, sorry to be specific. Then the last murder is the summer of two thousand and nine, and it's interesting because this is the only one where the body is found not in jeff Davis Parish. Her name is Nicole Gillery. She is found in neighboring Acadia Parish by it tent. It's interesting because it tent is extremely well traveled in this area. This is like how you can get to Houston. So she's found in August of two thousand and nine, and she, sort of like Laconia Brown, is very well known in the Jennings underworld. But then there's this other piece about Nicole that's really interesting, which is, like a lot of these women, she was in trouble lot and was in the parish jail lot. But Nicole was a witness in the case that involved the DA's office, sheriff's office, the FBI, and the state police. This was a case in the early two thousands, not actually too far off from when these homicides started in two thousand and five, where Nicole witnessed sheriff's deputies basically running a human trafficking ring out of the parish jail. So it's interesting she would allude to this when she spoke to her mother, like, you know, she would say things like I know all of these things about the sheriff's office, you know, or like I know too much, or like I'm going to be killed because of things that I know. I think at one when she even hid, and I believe that when she was found in August of nine, like I think her mother just assumed, oh, she's hiding from the sheriff's office again, she'll turn off. And so in my reporting about this for the documentary, I was able to actually pull the files from the Louis Naca Police, from the FBI, from the DA's office, from the sheriff's office about this human trafficking ring and the extent of it was absolutely extraordinary, involved many people working in the jail. Sexually assaulting and trafficking these women was not some kind of outlier activity. It was the bread and butter of the men who worked at this jail. And Nicole was a witness to all this. And I actually have and some of this is in the documentary. We obtained a videotaped interview of Cole wow about all that. I believe the Sheriff's off was recorded on vhs like in the early two thousands.

I had actually wondered if Scott Lewis had talked to anybody, any of the future victims about the past victims, since they were all in the same you know, socioeconomic background, They're all in the same area. It's not a big town, it's not a big area. And I just had wondered if any of them had popped up and then they turn out murdered.

I had actually wondered if Scott Lewis had talked to anybody, any of the future victims about the past victims, since they were all in the same you know, socioeconomic background, They're all in the same area. It's not a big town, it's not a big area. And I just had wondered if any of them had popped up and then they turn out murdered.

I don't believe Scott Lewis talked to any of them, but I'm pretty certain that like partically in the sort of like middle victims like four, five, six seven, they were certainly talking about each other, you know what I mean, Like like there is a sense that like I'm next, and even comments to that effect from the women to family members and friends, like I believe that I'm going to be next.

I don't believe Scott Lewis talked to any of them, but I'm pretty certain that like partically in the sort of like middle victims like four, five, six seven, they were certainly talking about each other, you know what I mean, Like like there is a sense that like I'm next, and even comments to that effect from the women to family members and friends, like I believe that I'm going to be next.

That's awful.

That's awful.

So yeah, and then there was this heavy witness element, particularly you know that you see, like I mentioned Nicole Giller, Kristen Gary Lopez, victim number three was also present and I have the Louisiana State Police records about this. She was also present at a botched drug raid where a man was killed. So there's like a lot of fear happening, both about their social circle being taken out one by one and then also like they're witnessing a number of things that are quite serious, you know, acid law enforcement, this company.

So yeah, and then there was this heavy witness element, particularly you know that you see, like I mentioned Nicole Giller, Kristen Gary Lopez, victim number three was also present and I have the Louisiana State Police records about this. She was also present at a botched drug raid where a man was killed. So there's like a lot of fear happening, both about their social circle being taken out one by one and then also like they're witnessing a number of things that are quite serious, you know, acid law enforcement, this company.

Why do you think these stopped, you know, with Nicole, why would they stop in two thousand and nine?

Why do you think these stopped, you know, with Nicole, why would they stop in two thousand and nine?

Do you think that's a great question. I mean, I think they stopped for a couple of reasons. I think reason one, this sounds really grim to say, is that these homicides really removed a specific social group from gettings. This isn't to say, you know, there's nobody left who's engaged in sex or has a drug problem, but it's like it removed very specific group of women, like totally, totally removing. So I think there's that.

Do you think that's a great question. I mean, I think they stopped for a couple of reasons. I think reason one, this sounds really grim to say, is that these homicides really removed a specific social group from gettings. This isn't to say, you know, there's nobody left who's engaged in sex or has a drug problem, but it's like it removed very specific group of women, like totally, totally removing. So I think there's that.

These were the only eight women who were, you know, with the drug trade and sex work at the same time, really and jinnings and.

These were the only eight women who were, you know, with the drug trade and sex work at the same time, really and jinnings and.

No, not at all. I think I think these were the eight women who were like both witnesses to law enforcementness conduct and had very very close relationships with Frankie Rishard, the primary suspect. So you have that, and then you have like now at this point with eight, you have a lot of attention, you have some national media coming in, and then you have families getting very vocal and angry and demanding that something bigger happened on the law enforcement side. And that is when the task force that I referenced earliers created. So there's this federal, state, and local task force that's created in the I believe fall of two thousand and a nine.

No, not at all. I think I think these were the eight women who were like both witnesses to law enforcementness conduct and had very very close relationships with Frankie Rishard, the primary suspect. So you have that, and then you have like now at this point with eight, you have a lot of attention, you have some national media coming in, and then you have families getting very vocal and angry and demanding that something bigger happened on the law enforcement side. And that is when the task force that I referenced earliers created. So there's this federal, state, and local task force that's created in the I believe fall of two thousand and a nine.

But you said that disappeared quickly, right, and didn't do very much.

But you said that disappeared quickly, right, and didn't do very much.

It didn't do very much like i've seen task force work. Product. The task force created like one hundred and fifty page report that summarizes their witness interviews. There's quite a few witness interviews that they did. They're really roughly all around the same time, if that makes sense. So they're like two thousand and nine, twenty ten, and then like, and this might be sort of like me thinking from my critical sort of brain, but like the witness interviews they did as memorialized in this task force report, like, they're very skim, now, you know, is that on purpose? Is it because they're bad at their job? Like, I don't know, but I do know for a fact that they're incredibly skim. They're just like really not good at aholl They're not helpful, people say helpful things and there's no follow up now And the other really striking thing about this meaning the task Force reporting is that over and over and over and over again, witnesses are telling the task Force, which again has a federal component. Hey, here are the names of the people in the sheriff's office who are selling drugs. Here are the names of the people in the sheriff's office who are involved with the women. Here is a time when I saw the women getting into the car of the warden, the warden of the parish jail. Here's the time that I saw, you know, one of the women getting out of the car of the of the warden. So like I believe, and I know that I'm saying this just as Ethan Brown and not as the FEDS and not as the US Department of Justice. But I believe that once the task Force is taking and memorializing so many accounts of extraordinary law enforcement misconduct, I think at that point you just sort of like stop everything and turn this over to the Department of because it's no longer this isn't this isn't the gilgel Beach case, where it's like, I know, that's a that's a very complicated case, and it's taken forever, right, But like, at the end of the day, if we're to believe the narrative that we have now about it, right, it involves one man and a lot of law enforcement mistakes and in attention and turf wars right between folks. This is something else that's just of a totally different variety, you know, where like what's being alleged here over and over and over again directly to the task Force is law enforcement misconduct that easily rises to the standard of federal civil rights violations. And I believe that, Like everybody says, oh, well, you know, the FEDS were involved in the Task Force, and that's correct, but it was just FBI agents sort of like involved in interviewing witnesses. What I'm saying is something much bigger, which is like this should have gone to the DOJ Civil Rights Division at that point and looked at the way that the DOJ Civil Rights Division looks at police killings and other kinds of violations of civil rights. You know, the statute is deprivation of rights under the color of WAW and I think, like, you know, there was such such extraordinary misconduct that that was the only way to handle it. And also, you know, the lost piece of this being like I think that there's a conflict element too, where like so many local law enforcement members are being implicated and wrongdoing. It's like there's a conflict here. Even if they're all wrong, let's say they're all lying or they're all wrong, there's a conflict element here where like, you know, the Jeff Davis Pari Sheriff's Office really shouldn't be involved, like you know, so many people in its office are being a key in this case.

It didn't do very much like i've seen task force work. Product. The task force created like one hundred and fifty page report that summarizes their witness interviews. There's quite a few witness interviews that they did. They're really roughly all around the same time, if that makes sense. So they're like two thousand and nine, twenty ten, and then like, and this might be sort of like me thinking from my critical sort of brain, but like the witness interviews they did as memorialized in this task force report, like, they're very skim, now, you know, is that on purpose? Is it because they're bad at their job? Like, I don't know, but I do know for a fact that they're incredibly skim. They're just like really not good at aholl They're not helpful, people say helpful things and there's no follow up now And the other really striking thing about this meaning the task Force reporting is that over and over and over and over again, witnesses are telling the task Force, which again has a federal component. Hey, here are the names of the people in the sheriff's office who are selling drugs. Here are the names of the people in the sheriff's office who are involved with the women. Here is a time when I saw the women getting into the car of the warden, the warden of the parish jail. Here's the time that I saw, you know, one of the women getting out of the car of the of the warden. So like I believe, and I know that I'm saying this just as Ethan Brown and not as the FEDS and not as the US Department of Justice. But I believe that once the task Force is taking and memorializing so many accounts of extraordinary law enforcement misconduct, I think at that point you just sort of like stop everything and turn this over to the Department of because it's no longer this isn't this isn't the gilgel Beach case, where it's like, I know, that's a that's a very complicated case, and it's taken forever, right, But like, at the end of the day, if we're to believe the narrative that we have now about it, right, it involves one man and a lot of law enforcement mistakes and in attention and turf wars right between folks. This is something else that's just of a totally different variety, you know, where like what's being alleged here over and over and over again directly to the task Force is law enforcement misconduct that easily rises to the standard of federal civil rights violations. And I believe that, Like everybody says, oh, well, you know, the FEDS were involved in the Task Force, and that's correct, but it was just FBI agents sort of like involved in interviewing witnesses. What I'm saying is something much bigger, which is like this should have gone to the DOJ Civil Rights Division at that point and looked at the way that the DOJ Civil Rights Division looks at police killings and other kinds of violations of civil rights. You know, the statute is deprivation of rights under the color of WAW and I think, like, you know, there was such such extraordinary misconduct that that was the only way to handle it. And also, you know, the lost piece of this being like I think that there's a conflict element too, where like so many local law enforcement members are being implicated and wrongdoing. It's like there's a conflict here. Even if they're all wrong, let's say they're all lying or they're all wrong, there's a conflict element here where like, you know, the Jeff Davis Pari Sheriff's Office really shouldn't be involved, like you know, so many people in its office are being a key in this case.

Well, last thing, I mean, do you have hope that these cases are going to get at least attention, maybe not even be solved, but can we have some hope here?

Well, last thing, I mean, do you have hope that these cases are going to get at least attention, maybe not even be solved, but can we have some hope here?

Yeah, So, in this summer of twenty twenty, like right around the George Ford time, a law office in New Orleans, the civil rights focused law office, submitted basically a complaint to the DOJ about this case, a very long complaint about this case that was heavily footnoted, meaning like it laid out the human trafficking ring at the parish jail and its connection to these women and a number of really serious instances of misconduct in this investigation. Basically said, you know, the DOJ needs to step in here. Nothing's happened as a result of that, as far as I know. I think that at one time or another FBI agent's sort of poke around and then leave and then you know. The hope element here is a new sheriff coming in. New sheriff is kind of an outsider. He beat the incumbent Ivy Woods. He has promised to take a very fresh look at all this for our fact. He's in very close contact with victims family members. He's in very close contact with a family member who is very very adversarial to the sheriff's office. And that would be someone who if you were a sheriff, and you were like not interested in doing anything about this, you would not want to be in contact with and he's in close contact with her, okay. So yeah, and then also like you know, I think people know this, there's no statute of limitations on homicide. These live forever, you know, there's no clock that runs out on this. So that is the hope.

Yeah, So, in this summer of twenty twenty, like right around the George Ford time, a law office in New Orleans, the civil rights focused law office, submitted basically a complaint to the DOJ about this case, a very long complaint about this case that was heavily footnoted, meaning like it laid out the human trafficking ring at the parish jail and its connection to these women and a number of really serious instances of misconduct in this investigation. Basically said, you know, the DOJ needs to step in here. Nothing's happened as a result of that, as far as I know. I think that at one time or another FBI agent's sort of poke around and then leave and then you know. The hope element here is a new sheriff coming in. New sheriff is kind of an outsider. He beat the incumbent Ivy Woods. He has promised to take a very fresh look at all this for our fact. He's in very close contact with victims family members. He's in very close contact with a family member who is very very adversarial to the sheriff's office. And that would be someone who if you were a sheriff, and you were like not interested in doing anything about this, you would not want to be in contact with and he's in close contact with her, okay. So yeah, and then also like you know, I think people know this, there's no statute of limitations on homicide. These live forever, you know, there's no clock that runs out on this. So that is the hope.

I mean, I think we leave on the note with the victims, which is whatever these women did, however they conducted themselves, whatever they did for living anything. You know, some were informants, some were witnesses somewhere, women who just were living their lives the best way they knew how to have all but been forgotten because of a lot of different things happening. It sounds like, and so I think your book is shining a light on a disenfranchised group. Not black, not white, not Hispanic or anything. It's just these women in this parish who were suffering various ways. I hope for their sakes and their family's sakes, and certainly you know, I hope we get a positive update about this with this new sheriff coming in.