6PR WeekendsHow to build a pub with Craig Peterson & Miles Hull
Yeah, let's change it up at twenty nine to ten. This is a front, a fun one to throw around.
I reckon.
If you've ever sat down with your mates and thought, I reckon, we should open a pub, I wan't to put my hand up.
I reckon.
That happens once a year with my mates or a few beers deep. We have a look around and we go, yeah, reckon, we could do it. We've never worked in hospitality, but you know our idea for a cowboy themed bar, I reckon, it's a winner. You're going to serve pickles, individual pickles.
That'll work. I mean there might actually be something in the pickle thing. Anyway.
That's the chat today. We'd love to hear from you. If you've thrown it around with your mates. Maybe you've done it. Maybe it actually worked out one double three eighty two. Well the two in the studio have done it. Craig Peterson, the Builder, Director of ICs Australia, Get a Craig, good morning, good to see you. And Miles Haull Special Edition Today, Director of Social Grounds Hospitality, also the head of Hospitality at Good Drinks Australia.
Hey Miles, Jamie, how are you? Yeah?
Good to see both.
If people have that idea creep into their head over a few beers, should they just delete it immediately?
It's probably a wise thought, is it.
I think when you get into those situations and a couple of beers kick it and you lots of ideas come up that maybe need a bit more scrutiny the following.
Day, scrutinis to keep word.
There isn't it Moss, Well, it's a longer road than you probably first think. Yes, it's not just opening it. There's a whole lot to it.
And yeah, the flip side to this is because this is what you do in part, there's probably a whole bunch of people that come up to you and go, hey, Marles, I've got this idea.
You cop a bit of that as well.
Everyone's got an idea, don't they.
Generally they get bigger and grander after a few drinks as well, and the clarity comes to you and you think this.
Is a ripper.
But come on, I'm onto something with the pickle thing. Aren't I individual pickles?
You know?
Just I think you've got to have a theme, Jamie, Yeah, pickles. Maybe, I mean it's the cowboy thing. And I think he's got legs because the country in Western seems to be a big thing at the moment, so maybe you've got something there.
It's a big isn't it Yellowstone? Do we have Yellowstone to blame?
Well maybe, Yeah, there's boots out there.
There's a down frio.
You can get line dancing if you really want to.
A honky tonk not sure.
If you've ever tried a pickleback, Jamie, I've.
Had one or two of my time pickles.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I explain what a pickleback is for those who haven't had the joy.
Well, yeah, you have a shot of tequila generally, can you wash it down with some pickle juice? So literally the Brian from the pickle jar.
Look, if it's good enough for our footballer is three quarter a time? I reckon it's good enough for us at the pub in terms of just the pickle juice bit.
Maybe not the tequila bit. No cramping, but yeah, that's.
It just wakes it up a little bit after the it's a good little bar, that one, the honky Tonk bar. Actually I've only ever been there really late, so my memory is a little bit scattered.
I think it's that's as specialty. I think, yeah, yeah.
Do you remember the first venue pub bar that you worked to open crag Oh?
I do.
It was in Yo Kine.
Oh yeah.
It was an.
Old pub probably built originally in about the fifties and sixties, and really it was getting geared up for family and that was what we were seeing. We're seeing a lot of pubs going from drinking venues per se to a broader option for the you know, the family, getting getting everybody in, so food became a bigger part.
Of it than just drinking.
Yeah, is that the transition that you saw going back miles as well?
One hundred percent.
I think if you look at the old classic pub, you know, the stand up in the corner bar, ladies lounge, in the next door little room, to what it is today where you look at Best for example, which just took out Wo's Best Pub, but the wo good food guard food is a major focus. Everyone's sitting and it's we classified. You know, you look at Best, that is today's modern pub.
It's good pub, isn't it. Yeah, good beers, good wine, list to the food's great.
People might not think it's a pub, but I think it's got all the bones of.
A pub for Well, that's a good question because I was talking to my mates. Actually I mentioned that I was having a chat to you and they said, Jamie, what's your top ten pubs? So we're throwing a few around. I put best in and one of my mates it is it a pub? Is it a pub? Is it a bar? Is it both?
What is it?
Well?
I think part of it now is what do we define as a pub? So traditionally define a pubs somewhere that you go and drink with your mates, but nowadays part of the bigger chains around Australia, it's really focused on that broader experience for everybody in the family. And I think also the days when you had perhaps a couple of big breweries running most of the pubs has changed and so you know we see a different environment because we've got different options out there for everybody. I mean, craft beer it was a big push and now it's changed to a degree. We've got enormous numbers of craft beer. But you know it's not just bear, it's the food is a massive, massive part.
Of it, and particularly I think in Wa because over eased pokeys have obviously still exist and they dominate in the pub. We don't have that here and that's I think by a larger great thing for most West Australians. But if you look at the pub model, it's a huge income that the pub can't take. So you do have to look at well, apart from beer and wine and spirits, where else you're going to draw your income from. And food one hundred percent is a driver for a lot of places, and Craig said diversifying out to families now too, are.
The margins skinnier than people realize they would be, because you know a lot of talk is around beer prices and you know what it costs for a parmy these days compared to five years ago. The margins a lot thinner than punters would expect.
Yeah, I think so.
There's certainly a lot of more pressure now on food price. Alcohol price is going up, but food particularly, And you look at the effort. A lot of people can go to a pub and think, gee, look at the price of a steak now and it's north of forty dollars a lot of venues, but that's the true cost really for a venue to make any sort of profit, because yes, of course you can go to the shop and cook yourself a steak far cheaper. But you look at everything that's gone into that pub, right from the start, from what Craig does, through the build, the interior fit out to your day to day costs, then yep, that's the reality.
Unfortunately, Craig was speaking about a local and Yokin that kind of changed gears a little bit for one of his first What about you, Miles, what was the first pub that you're involved in?
Well, a little bit different for me.
I guess breweries have always been a big part of my life and Little Creatures was probably whether that's a pub or a brewery, I think they're kind of one and the same thing. Now, Craig and I built a pub together in apple Cross called the quarter Acre, and I like to think as that as a good sort of benchmark for the modern day pub, which we took an old building on a corner and wasn't a pub, but we turned it into one. But it was all predominantly seeding. Was really a pseudo restaurant in a way, but it was a pub where you could come in and drink.
Okay, so you two worked on that. What first drew you eye to that joint? So you said it was an old building there. It wasn't a pub before. What was it that caught your eye and you thought, yeah, we could create a great suburban pub there.
Well, number one, it's on a corner.
And if you ever live in Melbourne or go to Victoria, there's a running sort of joke over there, a little game you've got to play. You've got to name how many pubs aren't on a corner in Melbourne, and literally there's two.
But it had great bones.
It was a big, open place and I think together with Patrick Miller, who was the architect at the time, we sort of converted we could open up the bar and put a big bar in and a bier garden and it allowed the building actually spoke to us and said they could do that.
Yeah, okay.
In terms of process procedure, how much hair do you pull out going through that run, Craig, I.
Think with most things, it's really trying to look at what the outcome is and sort of going back to further to what Miles said, the benefit and talking to the locals. That pub works because it's a local pub and it services that community. And I've had a few beers in there, you know, with mates and they go, oh.
We live around the corner. It's great, and that's what people want.
People want that local experience, that local ability to go to a pub and then go, look, I'll see you down there and we can bring Are we bringing the kids or we're taking you know, the experience is broader. I mean that's a classic in the sense that Miles design required.
There to be a facility for everybody.
There.
There was a big sampit there. You know, there was options for kids, there was options for a broader family. And if you look at the demographics that came into that place, they.
Were really really broad.
I mean at any given time in that venue now you would see every age and I think that's an essential part of it. Going back to your question, I mean, any existing building has its own challenges because you've got to modify those structurally to suit the intent. And in that case, part of the original building was to its lab concrete, so you know, cutting out large portions of that formed a big part of the process and the subsequent engineering that has to happen. Accordingly, we live in a warm climate, so having sufficient management of the weather in and out.
Is a big, big part of it.
Just on that So as a builder, would you rather work with something that's got a bit of heritage, some history to it and have to work around those things or within those parameters, or do you like the barebones starting something new, building something fresh?
Look, I love an old building. I mean, I've always liked adaptive re use of any kind of built form, and I think as sustainably it's a great way to go. It does present its own challenges. There's issues there that you just don't know, latent conditions. You open the floor up and you go, oh, okay, we got something else to do. Building from scratches is a lot easier, There's no doubt about it in a lot of cases.
But look, I like both.
But I mean I do love an old building giving it new life and there's in built character.
I mean, it adds to the venue itself.
Yeah, I think going the ability to go into a building and let it sounds a little bit tossy maybe, but you can say, let it talk to you and let it feel how it works, I think is really important. So rather than building a whole new one, which is hard to imagine, you've got to build it in your head.
But if you can actually go into a building and you can walk it out.
With Craig and paste it out with the architect and so how about this and spray, you know, put lines on the floor and work out the space.
Then that's a lot.
Of It's pretty fun, isn't it.
It is a lot of fun. It is a lot of fun.
But then anybody out there wanting to do it, you've got to remember that. Yeah, you've got years of running it.
Yeah, maybe we should talk to you when you're halfway through doing one. It might have been a bit of a different discussion. You touched on a good point. I know you brought up quarter acre because you worked on it together. But pubs bars in suburbs, you know, I reckon that's been a massive change. It's probably been more than ten years, hasn't it. But where we're moving, we've still got our precincts and they're always going to be busy. But people are wanting things in their area. They want to be able to walk out their front door and go to a place. You think they're going to see more of a trend, you know, with that, more pubs, more bars in our actual suburbs.
Oh for sure.
I think what Craig said it's about community. That is a big thing for pubs, I think, And essentially it's a place where the community gets together. So if you look at country towns for example, it's the meeting places where you get together and talk about issues. Same thing in the suburbs, same thing in and around town. So you want to be able to walk down it's a place you can meet people and it's something nice when you've got a diverse range of people too.
I remember we had the owners of Rocky Ridge in the studio when they opened up in dunk Craig and you know, obviously they're kind of born out of gin Doong. They've got the little tasting kind of house I suppose in Busso and they said one of the drivers for them coming to Perth is a bit of a surprise, right dun Craig. You know you're from down south and you're opening kind of in the in the northern urbs. And they said, the reason we loved it is because there's nothing else around.
Yeah. Look, I totally agree, and it becomes for everybody. It's kind of office two point zero. It's where you go and you actually sit with people, and I think it's a lot of things to a lot of people. And again in regional regional Australia, the pub becomes the pivotal point of the community. And I think in the suburbs that's what we want as well. We want to have something that gives us an ability to go there and it can be a number of things for a number of people. I think one of the big issues for pubs, even if you don't call them pubs, they become a venue for a range of options.
Yeah, you're thinking about that are multiple occasions.
I mean, you know, you walk into a place and you go, Okay, I've got some cute little booths over here, that's nice first date material. And I've got a big open area with plenty of sun over there. I've got okay, playground for the kids. That's obviously front of mind when you're designing these joints, right.
Yeah, that's what makes it a pub, and they're kind of democratic places. There's something for everybody in a good pub has that. So you can sit outside, or you can sit in a cozy corner and you look at the something like the Bayswater Pub, for example, look at the size of the playground that's going in there, or the Trendale down down south on the way to Marg's sort of thing.
You stop in there and it's just huge.
Yeah, get the kids, get mum and dad. Hey, yeah, yeah, every work. Yeah, that's it, the whole fam. How are you going to come back in a moment. There's a couple of questions coming through on the text that are going to put to them. I'll let you think about this one. We're in the break this on the text, just asking if there's a building around town that you'd love to get your hands on, that.
You reckon would make a great pub. Might not want to say publicly. I leave that with you.
We'll come back at a moment. One double three eighty two to get involved. It's quarter to ten until midday. This is weekends with Jamie Burnett. A few people on the text reckon they've thought about it and haven't pulled the trigger yet.
There you go, there's time. There's always time.
One double three eighty two in the studio Craig Peterson, Miles Hull. We're talking about the pub. How good is the pub? We've all had that thought, getting together with a few mates and doing it. This is what these two do and they've built some great pubs and bars across the years.
You mentioned quarter Acre. How many venues have you two worked on together over the years.
I think we've done four together. Okay, nice, I've got a team going.
Do you find your people a little bit in this world, because obviously you do stuff without each other and you've done other venues and you build plenty of stuff. I see the ices everywhere. I really notice it now. I'm seeing a lot of it, Craig.
But we don't have a lot of projects. We just have a lot of sign just keep moving them around.
You actually a signage company.
Yeah, yeah, but you do.
I suppose you gravitate to people a little bit, right, particularly here in Perth you go.
To Yeah, I think you develop a team you know and trust and you work with and it's a relationship really when you're building something, particularly because everyone you're calling on people for their expectees.
So.
You can't do everything, and that's part of the thing you need to understand. You can't do anything, but you know when you've got to build it. Particularly, it's like a good mechanic. When you find one you know and trust, you'd like to stick with them.
Just on that looking for a mechanic at the moment.
So if anyone can help me out with that zero flight seven triple Night Shad too. Hey, I mentioned this question on the text before we went to the break, But is there I don't know, is there something that stands out to you, maybe a building, a site somewhere across Perth that you'd love to do, a pub or a venue in either of you?
Well, I suppose in the break we were just talking about it, and I mean there are a number you know, I would love to see.
The we did work on the Red Herring.
I think I mentioned down in East Freemantle over the water and I'm a big fan for venues on the water and I would love to see that, you know, a pub. It's a dim and it's a beautiful books.
I don't need more competition down at Jenny.
But yeah, yeah, I was going to say, I don't think, I don't think Miles will agree with it. But the one I've always you know, and a lot of people who wanted is the South Freemant Or power station. Yeah, I mean, I mean obviously it's a massive building and some kind of hospitality venue of note would form part of a development.
And I know that there are a lot of issues.
With the building, but I think eventually at some stage that will be developed or redeveloped, one would hope.
And that view out to the water is just in credible.
How to be iconic, to be an iconic spot, wouldn't it mask You.
Know, it doesn't get really much better in terms of building and character and location, and particularly with the growing demographic and around that area. So if you look inland from there, that's the other thing when you've got to look at what you're doing and look at how well service is the community currently and you look down there and arguably that area probably needs and deserves another couple of pubs.
Yep.
It's definitely one of the growing, the faster growing regions across Perth. We're lucky in a way, aren't we. Where we've got We've got these great things to look at. So you know, we've got this huge stretch of ocean which lends itself to have places like this. We've got the river as well, We've got great areas in the hills. I mean incorporating I suppose nature into your venue or around your venue is a big part of it as well.
Mast Yeah, I think you going to the pub is a bit of an escape. It's a bit of an escape from every day and catch up with your mates and you just want to put paws on every day and sit back and take it easy and have a good time with your friends. And so a great natural surrounding sort of helps that. So whether you're out in the hills that pass calum Under or you're in a more suburban environment.
And if you look at the design now, a lot more open, lot more.
Greenery coming into the venue itself as well, and I think that makes it feel that much more relaxed.
Yeah, I think it was interesting, my wife said as we walked out. I walked out the door this morning. You just tell Miles we're at the Jedi Bar three times last week. The thing about it, you've also got to remember is that you acquire things when you get a venue. If you've got a venue on the water lay Jety, you actually picked up that whole theater that develops as the boats go past, and the movement and the interaction of people, the people running past and going for walk, taking the dog for walk, everything else, and that theater is really really important. So context is everything, And I think when you've got a venue that has that natural, built in context happening all the time you're sitting there, you're enjoying it. You're not just catching up with friends, you're actually taking in that.
That's that's nice.
When that's the TV right watching, it's fantastic. So the Subi Pub, for example, the Subi Hotel sits on the corner. There is a couple of bench seats and stools right on that corner window on that intersection, and it's kind of fun if you bow yourself. You're just sitting with a beer and you just gaze outside and you just watch everybody walking past and driving past.
And yeah, every pub's got like a little secret best spot I reckon that's the one at the Subie.
That's good. Intel.
This question on the text might be a hard one to answer because it's like the favorite kid thing.
But favorite pub in Perth and wy Crag.
Well, given I just said we're a jetty three times last.
Week, Well Bill Craig, isn't it.
Well it's a shed on the water with the bar, and what can I say go wrong?
Craig built that one from scratch.
So that was Yeah, that was that was a fun job.
In the middle of COVID where we were wondering how we're going to build it, and amazing design from Space Agency, but literally built it out of timber and the factory and put most of it up in one day in terms of the structure, and it was a project that sort of I like to think of a little positive kind of note in a time when there was a lot of inconsistent or unknown sort of feelings about what the environment or the future would look like.
Yeah, and it's worked out.
Well. You got a favorite moss.
Yeah, I've kind of got two in a way, but one is The Queens, which is to me just as quintessential pub. It's been renovated and obviously ripped out and Michael Petroni's Space Agency did that years and years ago, but that has just stood the test of time. But I'm south of the river guy'm all Frio based in the Norfolk. Always wins for me for a couple of quite bers.
Yeah, normal, it's my favorite as well. Lovedouns down there on the weekend. Such a good spot.
We're lucky.
We've got some great ones thanks to you. We've got a few more great ones too. Thanks for coming in and chatting pubs today. Pretty good on the site. Should done it with a beer a little bit early, Actually, I'd get in.
Trouble for that. Maybe next time. Offair.
Picklebacks, Yeah, picklebacks, you've brought it.
Nicely done, nicely done. Greig Paterson, Miles Halle in the studio. A bit of fun today. I'll get to your text at a moment zero for eight seven, triple nine eighty two. Maybe we'll pick up on that favorite pub thing. We'll share a few right through until twelve o'clock today, five to ten
