What's up its way up at Angela.

What's up its way up at Angela.

Ye, and y'all know by now my girl coach Jesse is here with me the detox now, yes, ma'am, all right, and you brought a friend with you, which I'm excited about.

Ye, and y'all know by now my girl coach Jesse is here with me the detox now, yes, ma'am, all right, and you brought a friend with you, which I'm excited about.

So April is Stress Awareness Month, and you know, one of the things, as black women, we are always under so much pressure trying to hold it down between work and family, and a lot of times we don't realize that we may be dealing with something that's not just chronic stress, but it actually may be something that's deeper. And what when I met you know, doctor Joseph, and I learned about the work she's doing. I learned that, you know what, there's something that we can be dealing with that's beyond just kind of like being busy. There's the pressure of like we're getting everything done, we are the go to person. But still inside even though we look like high achievers, hi, we're actually looking like we're functioning.

So April is Stress Awareness Month, and you know, one of the things, as black women, we are always under so much pressure trying to hold it down between work and family, and a lot of times we don't realize that we may be dealing with something that's not just chronic stress, but it actually may be something that's deeper. And what when I met you know, doctor Joseph, and I learned about the work she's doing. I learned that, you know what, there's something that we can be dealing with that's beyond just kind of like being busy. There's the pressure of like we're getting everything done, we are the go to person. But still inside even though we look like high achievers, hi, we're actually looking like we're functioning.

Also like it's normal and achieving. All these things say it's busy, right to be exhausted.

Also like it's normal and achieving. All these things say it's busy, right to be exhausted.

Inside you're exhausted, but not just exhausted, you're joyless. You're numb and anxious, and that is where we need to look at are we actually dealing with high functioning depression. So you know, doctor Judith is a researcher, a.

Inside you're exhausted, but not just exhausted, you're joyless. You're numb and anxious, and that is where we need to look at are we actually dealing with high functioning depression. So you know, doctor Judith is a researcher, a.

Psychiatrist, and an author.

Psychiatrist, and an author.

Obviously her book is just releasing yay this week.

Obviously her book is just releasing yay this week.

Yay, So congratulations, thank you.

Yay, So congratulations, thank you.

And I was so excited to have her join us to have this conversation because she's not just someone who researched it, but she lived it.

And I was so excited to have her join us to have this conversation because she's not just someone who researched it, but she lived it.

Right.

Right.

Love for you to just share with us your.

Love for you to just share with us your.

Story, Yeah, thank you, Jesse. Coach Jesse, because what happens is that people are comfortable saying I'm burnt out, you know, I'm exhausted, but if you say I'm depressed, it's like crickets. It makes people feel awkward. But the reality is that many of us are actually walking around with high functioning depression, wearing this mask of pathological productivity, being busy, being in the rock, doing all these things. But we're struggling inside with symptoms of depression and we're calling it something different. So that's why the things that we think will help us feel better don't and we're not getting better. So we have to name it and identify it so then we use tools that actually treat it.

Story, Yeah, thank you, Jesse. Coach Jesse, because what happens is that people are comfortable saying I'm burnt out, you know, I'm exhausted, but if you say I'm depressed, it's like crickets. It makes people feel awkward. But the reality is that many of us are actually walking around with high functioning depression, wearing this mask of pathological productivity, being busy, being in the rock, doing all these things. But we're struggling inside with symptoms of depression and we're calling it something different. So that's why the things that we think will help us feel better don't and we're not getting better. So we have to name it and identify it so then we use tools that actually treat it.

And this was something you identified within yourself tales yes, and which is not an easy thing for us to actually say to ourselves because as somebody who from childhood, you've been such a high achiever with so many accomplishments. But I saw also, I've seen you post the pictures of yourself throughout the years and the things that we see as accomplishments, but also the underlying issues that you were having within yourself that you didn't even know.

And this was something you identified within yourself tales yes, and which is not an easy thing for us to actually say to ourselves because as somebody who from childhood, you've been such a high achiever with so many accomplishments. But I saw also, I've seen you post the pictures of yourself throughout the years and the things that we see as accomplishments, but also the underlying issues that you were having within yourself that you didn't even know.

Yeah, I didn't even know. And I'm a board sort of for a psychiatrist and researcher, and it snuck up on me. Like I remember sitting at a desk teaching this large hospital system in twenty twenty how to get through uncertainty. They were like asking questions. It's like, yeah, just like what's going to happen?

Yeah, I didn't even know. And I'm a board sort of for a psychiatrist and researcher, and it snuck up on me. Like I remember sitting at a desk teaching this large hospital system in twenty twenty how to get through uncertainty. They were like asking questions. It's like, yeah, just like what's going to happen?

What do I do?

What do I do?

And halfway through that talk, I was like, wait a second, I think I'm depressed. It like hit me and I was like, and I have no joy. And that's something called anne hedonia. It's a research term that a lot of people have never heard of. But I'm trying to change that. So, like you're doing so much, you are the human doing You're not a human being, right, you're showing up for others. You're so busy, and if you sit still you feel restless. You know, if you're not working, you feel empty. And when I started talking about this to people, they're like, that's what it is. They just didn't have a name for it. So it's important because this can be an indicator that something is going on that you need help. But if you go to your doctor and you're like checking all these symptoms of depression, but the last checkbox is empty because you are still functioning. You're actually overfunctioning, they'll say, come back when you break down, because we can't really do anything for you right now. I'm trying to change that.

And halfway through that talk, I was like, wait a second, I think I'm depressed. It like hit me and I was like, and I have no joy. And that's something called anne hedonia. It's a research term that a lot of people have never heard of. But I'm trying to change that. So, like you're doing so much, you are the human doing You're not a human being, right, you're showing up for others. You're so busy, and if you sit still you feel restless. You know, if you're not working, you feel empty. And when I started talking about this to people, they're like, that's what it is. They just didn't have a name for it. So it's important because this can be an indicator that something is going on that you need help. But if you go to your doctor and you're like checking all these symptoms of depression, but the last checkbox is empty because you are still functioning. You're actually overfunctioning, they'll say, come back when you break down, because we can't really do anything for you right now. I'm trying to change that.

So they're sending you away like everything's okay. But the truth is you are depressed.

So they're sending you away like everything's okay. But the truth is you are depressed.

Yeah, you have these symptoms, but in order to meet criteria for depression, you have to check that final box of you're no longer functioning or you're in distress. Well, what about people who have to keep going and what about people who don't have the word to describe what they're going through. They're not being addressed because we're waiting for you to break down, which is it sounds like counterintuitive, like why would you wait for someone to break down? But that's just the way the system is. But we're seeing that there's a change with like cancer, Like people aren't saying wait till you get to stage three cancers. Yeah, they're saying, let's prevent the cancer. You know, we're seeing it with heart disease. Let's not wait for the heart attack, let's prevent it. Or even with a stocker.

Yeah, you have these symptoms, but in order to meet criteria for depression, you have to check that final box of you're no longer functioning or you're in distress. Well, what about people who have to keep going and what about people who don't have the word to describe what they're going through. They're not being addressed because we're waiting for you to break down, which is it sounds like counterintuitive, like why would you wait for someone to break down? But that's just the way the system is. But we're seeing that there's a change with like cancer, Like people aren't saying wait till you get to stage three cancers. Yeah, they're saying, let's prevent the cancer. You know, we're seeing it with heart disease. Let's not wait for the heart attack, let's prevent it. Or even with a stocker.

Every can you can do anything until something happens, even if you're really won't.

Every can you can do anything until something happens, even if you're really won't.

So what's the actual if? For Layman's terms, how would you define high functional depression?

So what's the actual if? For Layman's terms, how would you define high functional depression?

So you have these symptoms of depression, you can go onto my website and you can take the test. There's a high functioning test. It's free, and you go through the symptoms of pression and you see if you have them. And the hallmark is that a lot of us are overfunctioning. So no matter what we do. One of the questions on there is no matter what we do, we never feel like it's enough.

So you have these symptoms of depression, you can go onto my website and you can take the test. There's a high functioning test. It's free, and you go through the symptoms of pression and you see if you have them. And the hallmark is that a lot of us are overfunctioning. So no matter what we do. One of the questions on there is no matter what we do, we never feel like it's enough.

You keep going and.

You keep going and.

How many But that's so normalized at because it makes you feel like if you don't feel that way, you're not doing enough in a way. But then it's also the absence, like you said, of joy and herdonia, because you always keep pushing the bar like, Okay, I'll be happy.

How many But that's so normalized at because it makes you feel like if you don't feel that way, you're not doing enough in a way. But then it's also the absence, like you said, of joy and herdonia, because you always keep pushing the bar like, Okay, I'll be happy.

When this happens. I do that all the time.

When this happens. I do that all the time.

I'm like, I feel better when this happens or I finally have a chance, But then there's always something else after that that you're delaying it until you're delaying your happiness until you reach something, but then there's always something moving carrot right.

I'm like, I feel better when this happens or I finally have a chance, But then there's always something else after that that you're delaying it until you're delaying your happiness until you reach something, but then there's always something moving carrot right.

I'm glad you brought that up, because that's exactly what people say when they come to my office. They're like, doctor, I just want to be happy. And when I ask them, like what is happiness, they're like, oh, it's when I get that job, or when I finally get a house, when I pay off my debt. It's always this idea. But in my research lab it's the opposite. When we measure happiness, we're adding up points of joy. So the questions we ask like the questions you'll see on my website, like when you ate your food, did it taste good? When you took a nap, did you feel rested?

I'm glad you brought that up, because that's exactly what people say when they come to my office. They're like, doctor, I just want to be happy. And when I ask them, like what is happiness, they're like, oh, it's when I get that job, or when I finally get a house, when I pay off my debt. It's always this idea. But in my research lab it's the opposite. When we measure happiness, we're adding up points of joy. So the questions we ask like the questions you'll see on my website, like when you ate your food, did it taste good? When you took a nap, did you feel rested?

Can you find joy in a moment these moments?

Can you find joy in a moment these moments?

And that's how we measure it. In science, we add up the points and then overall that's what makes us measure whether or not there's happiness. But in the real world we're like, well, i'll be happy one. So it's an idea versus joy as an experience, and we're missing out on joy.

And that's how we measure it. In science, we add up the points and then overall that's what makes us measure whether or not there's happiness. But in the real world we're like, well, i'll be happy one. So it's an idea versus joy as an experience, and we're missing out on joy.

We're leaving our points on the table.

We're leaving our points on the table.

I want to talk to you.

I want to talk to you.

Also in the book, you discuss how in order for you to become a psychiatrist, you also had to see one yes, right, and that wasn't easy for you. And I think that's so interesting, right because I do feel like right now, more than ever, people have been talking about going to therapy and trying to make that feel I've seen people say if he's not seeing a therapist, I don't want to date why people are really saying that. And so, what was a breakthrough moment for you? Because I know people who are listening they need to know that these are steps you had to go through. But also do you feel this pressure to be perfect because of who you are and what you do?

Also in the book, you discuss how in order for you to become a psychiatrist, you also had to see one yes, right, and that wasn't easy for you. And I think that's so interesting, right because I do feel like right now, more than ever, people have been talking about going to therapy and trying to make that feel I've seen people say if he's not seeing a therapist, I don't want to date why people are really saying that. And so, what was a breakthrough moment for you? Because I know people who are listening they need to know that these are steps you had to go through. But also do you feel this pressure to be perfect because of who you are and what you do?

Yeah, you know, I wasn't always going to be a psychiatrist. I'm from a very traditional Caribbean home Christian home, and when I went to medical school, I was the first doctor in my family. So when I told my parents I wanted to be an anti sosiologist, they were like, great, and I'll just make a lot of money, you know, like that's a real doctor, a doctor.

Yeah, you know, I wasn't always going to be a psychiatrist. I'm from a very traditional Caribbean home Christian home, and when I went to medical school, I was the first doctor in my family. So when I told my parents I wanted to be an anti sosiologist, they were like, great, and I'll just make a lot of money, you know, like that's a real doctor, a doctor.

But I was.

But I was.

I was miserable in that field and I was actually going through a depression when I was in that field. And so when I actually said I want to get out of that, and my friend was a psychiatrist in training at the time, she was like, this is great. And I had done this rotation in South Africa where I was helping little kids through their trauma and I love that in medical school, so I was like, I want to see if I could do that because that was very fulfilling. A switched to psychiatry and they were saying, you know, all the residents and training get free like low cost to free therapy, so it's really cheap to see some of the most expensive psychiatrists in the city. So I just remember going to this very fancy office on the Upper East Side and I was like, what does this man know about me? Like, I'm from the Caribbean, I didn't have money growing up. He didn't know me, and there are all of his patients around him were all rich and like very well dressed and stuff. But yeah, like I didn't think I had mental health issues. I was like, I'm just gonna do it because everyone else is, but I'm not. I don't have any problems. And boy was I wrong. Boy, there was so much trauma that was unpacked, like growing up with very little. I had no idea that the reason I pushed myself to, you know, get good grades and like constantly working overfunctioning was because I never wanted to be in a position of lacking again. So that scarcity trauma was something that pushed me to be high functioning. And I talk about that in the book as well.

I was miserable in that field and I was actually going through a depression when I was in that field. And so when I actually said I want to get out of that, and my friend was a psychiatrist in training at the time, she was like, this is great. And I had done this rotation in South Africa where I was helping little kids through their trauma and I love that in medical school, so I was like, I want to see if I could do that because that was very fulfilling. A switched to psychiatry and they were saying, you know, all the residents and training get free like low cost to free therapy, so it's really cheap to see some of the most expensive psychiatrists in the city. So I just remember going to this very fancy office on the Upper East Side and I was like, what does this man know about me? Like, I'm from the Caribbean, I didn't have money growing up. He didn't know me, and there are all of his patients around him were all rich and like very well dressed and stuff. But yeah, like I didn't think I had mental health issues. I was like, I'm just gonna do it because everyone else is, but I'm not. I don't have any problems. And boy was I wrong. Boy, there was so much trauma that was unpacked, like growing up with very little. I had no idea that the reason I pushed myself to, you know, get good grades and like constantly working overfunctioning was because I never wanted to be in a position of lacking again. So that scarcity trauma was something that pushed me to be high functioning. And I talk about that in the book as well.

I love that you brought up trauma because you know that does you talked about it plays a major role. How much of a role does process trauma, you know, play in high function depression.

I love that you brought up trauma because you know that does you talked about it plays a major role. How much of a role does process trauma, you know, play in high function depression.

Well, I know you're an expert in that mind body connection, right, that fight or flight. That's the busyness, right, some of us we can't sit still. And it's different from burnout because with burnout, you know, it's the work plash, Well, it's the workplace that's causing it. By definition, burnout is an occupational hazard. But for us high functioning, functioning people, when you leave the workplace, we're not just working. We're like, we're helping somebody else with their problems. We're helping our kids doing a project. I got a bazillion projects going on because we can't sit still. And I don't think people realize that's related to unprocessed trauma.

Well, I know you're an expert in that mind body connection, right, that fight or flight. That's the busyness, right, some of us we can't sit still. And it's different from burnout because with burnout, you know, it's the work plash, Well, it's the workplace that's causing it. By definition, burnout is an occupational hazard. But for us high functioning, functioning people, when you leave the workplace, we're not just working. We're like, we're helping somebody else with their problems. We're helping our kids doing a project. I got a bazillion projects going on because we can't sit still. And I don't think people realize that's related to unprocessed trauma.

We're constantly driving it about when you look at the trauma, what is actually driving the way that you're not stopping.

We're constantly driving it about when you look at the trauma, what is actually driving the way that you're not stopping.

That's the piece it is. It's the avoidance. That's how we avoid.

That's the piece it is. It's the avoidance. That's how we avoid.

You know.

You know.

It's interesting because even now I feel like that's definitely me. People tell me all the time, you can't say still just do like, but I made a commitment to myself, like I have a lot of things that were in the practice of getting done, and I was like, you know, as in the second half of this year, I'm going to just take it easy. I'm not trying to like put more on my plate until I can handle what I have on my plate now, just because I feel like I just give myself so much to.

It's interesting because even now I feel like that's definitely me. People tell me all the time, you can't say still just do like, but I made a commitment to myself, like I have a lot of things that were in the practice of getting done, and I was like, you know, as in the second half of this year, I'm going to just take it easy. I'm not trying to like put more on my plate until I can handle what I have on my plate now, just because I feel like I just give myself so much to.

Do that I'm like, yeah, why do I that self?

Do that I'm like, yeah, why do I that self?

Love?

Love?

But you know, I might be pushing the bar and then because I'm like, you know, you never know, like things happen, but I really have made that commitment because the other thing that's hard, like you said, is you want to show up for everybody, and it's hard to say no sometimes, but you need to, well.

But you know, I might be pushing the bar and then because I'm like, you know, you never know, like things happen, but I really have made that commitment because the other thing that's hard, like you said, is you want to show up for everybody, and it's hard to say no sometimes, but you need to, well.

Angela, one of the symptoms of trauma, unprocessed trauma is internalizing blame and guilt. So us high functioning folks like if we don't show up for others, we feel guilty. We're like or we call ourselves lazy. You know, it's ridiculous. We're doing so much, but we internalize it.

Angela, one of the symptoms of trauma, unprocessed trauma is internalizing blame and guilt. So us high functioning folks like if we don't show up for others, we feel guilty. We're like or we call ourselves lazy. You know, it's ridiculous. We're doing so much, but we internalize it.

It's the message we're getting, we're saying to ourselves.

It's the message we're getting, we're saying to ourselves.

It is it's how.

It is it's how.

We tie our worth to our role. But we were someone before our role. We just have to work ourselves back.

We tie our worth to our role. But we were someone before our role. We just have to work ourselves back.

You know.

You know.

I wonder if we could touch a little bit on how, you know, Infertility Awareness Week is coming up and how women who actually are dealing with infertility and I'm wearing orange in honor of you all because I was one dealt with it for ten years and that is a traumatic thing, right and can push you into high function depression.

I wonder if we could touch a little bit on how, you know, Infertility Awareness Week is coming up and how women who actually are dealing with infertility and I'm wearing orange in honor of you all because I was one dealt with it for ten years and that is a traumatic thing, right and can push you into high function depression.

Would you say absolutely? You know, in PTSD research, post traumatic stress to sort of research, the traumas that are really identified as being the key traumas are not things like that. And so when I do my research and people come in and they're like, I've had you know, so many miscarriage carriages that cow and I'm like, I believe you, but according to this box, I can't say yes, And that's so invalidating. So that's why I created these like frequizes on our website where you can put in these type of traumas, and that is definitely one of them.

Would you say absolutely? You know, in PTSD research, post traumatic stress to sort of research, the traumas that are really identified as being the key traumas are not things like that. And so when I do my research and people come in and they're like, I've had you know, so many miscarriage carriages that cow and I'm like, I believe you, but according to this box, I can't say yes, And that's so invalidating. So that's why I created these like frequizes on our website where you can put in these type of traumas, and that is definitely one of them.

Those you're trail actually voice and an opportunity for people to to examine and process what they're going through in light of this.

Those you're trail actually voice and an opportunity for people to to examine and process what they're going through in light of this.

Yeah, because a trauma is something that shapes the way that you view yourself in the world and the way that you interact with the world, something that's painful, and it doesn't have to be this big assault. It could be something like, yeah, it's true, multiple miscarriagters, right.

Yeah, because a trauma is something that shapes the way that you view yourself in the world and the way that you interact with the world, something that's painful, and it doesn't have to be this big assault. It could be something like, yeah, it's true, multiple miscarriagters, right.

I mean that's huge.

I mean that's huge.

And doctor Joseph As, you are the first person to really dig and do this research on high functioning depression. How have other people received it in the medical world?

And doctor Joseph As, you are the first person to really dig and do this research on high functioning depression. How have other people received it in the medical world?

Wow?

Wow?

How much time do you have them?

How much time do you have them?

I'm just curious because being the first person being a black woman, which and being the person that and you have a book out about it, and you've really done the research. How are other people because sometimes other people cannot be accepting of things that maybe they don't even understand.

I'm just curious because being the first person being a black woman, which and being the person that and you have a book out about it, and you've really done the research. How are other people because sometimes other people cannot be accepting of things that maybe they don't even understand.

Well. Initially the feedback was that's not a real thing. You know.

Well. Initially the feedback was that's not a real thing. You know.

Wait, there are still functioning, which again I think is a broken model. Right, we have to help people before they stop functioning. Initially they said that, But then I teach at NYU.

Wait, there are still functioning, which again I think is a broken model. Right, we have to help people before they stop functioning. Initially they said that, But then I teach at NYU.

I teach medical doctors, okay, and yuse my mom oh.

I teach medical doctors, okay, and yuse my mom oh.

I teach some of the young doctors how to create content to educate the public about mental health issues. And so one of the things they asked me was can you help us create social content because I already taught them like you know, TV, press radio. So I said, let me do a little test. I'll do a video on high functioning depression a day in the life, and we'll see how it does. I thought maybe one hundred people will watch it. It was seen over twenty million times around the world.

I teach some of the young doctors how to create content to educate the public about mental health issues. And so one of the things they asked me was can you help us create social content because I already taught them like you know, TV, press radio. So I said, let me do a little test. I'll do a video on high functioning depression a day in the life, and we'll see how it does. I thought maybe one hundred people will watch it. It was seen over twenty million times around the world.

So I was on that resonated Yes, and what we're saying is.

So I was on that resonated Yes, and what we're saying is.

A lot right, people like, how do you have a camera in my home? How do you know what my day listening?

A lot right, people like, how do you have a camera in my home? How do you know what my day listening?

Wow, So that got the attention of the same people who were like, it's not a thing. They were like, I think it's a thing.

Wow, So that got the attention of the same people who were like, it's not a thing. They were like, I think it's a thing.

I'm like.

I'm like.

That though, because you you saw it, you gave it voice, you put it out there, even though people were trying to tell you wasn't even valid.

That though, because you you saw it, you gave it voice, you put it out there, even though people were trying to tell you wasn't even valid.

Kudos to you.

Kudos to you.

That's fantastic. And even doing social media. That was something that also might be like in the in the medical world, like what is this. This is not the normal traditional way that we do things.

That's fantastic. And even doing social media. That was something that also might be like in the in the medical world, like what is this. This is not the normal traditional way that we do things.

It's not And initially people were like, oh, what are you trying to be an actor? And I'm like, I grew up in a church where my dad, who's a pastor, put us on stage three times a week.

It's not And initially people were like, oh, what are you trying to be an actor? And I'm like, I grew up in a church where my dad, who's a pastor, put us on stage three times a week.

Whether we wanted to or not.

Whether we wanted to or not.

We had to act on Bible skits, we had to say, we have to do everything. So it just came naturally to me. People understand when you explain things in an entertaining waytely, it's not rocket science.

We had to act on Bible skits, we had to say, we have to do everything. So it just came naturally to me. People understand when you explain things in an entertaining waytely, it's not rocket science.

Don't make it rocket science.

Don't make it rocket science.

Now.

Now.

Another thing that you did was you traveled in broad to see how different cultures also approach mental health.

Another thing that you did was you traveled in broad to see how different cultures also approach mental health.

What are some things you learned from that? Because that's fascinating to me.

What are some things you learned from that? Because that's fascinating to me.

It is fascinating. You know, a lot of the terms like narcissism, you know, like we think it's gas lighting. Yeah, gas I think it's just an our culture on the side of the world. But when you go to places like India and you see a guru talking about the ego and putting your ego aside, that's what he's saying, don't be a narcissist, right, So mental health is everywhere in the Caribbean. You know, like when my parents found out it was going to be a psychiatrist, are like, way, hanging out with a.

It is fascinating. You know, a lot of the terms like narcissism, you know, like we think it's gas lighting. Yeah, gas I think it's just an our culture on the side of the world. But when you go to places like India and you see a guru talking about the ego and putting your ego aside, that's what he's saying, don't be a narcissist, right, So mental health is everywhere in the Caribbean. You know, like when my parents found out it was going to be a psychiatrist, are like, way, hanging out with a.

Crazy people.

Crazy people.

Sounds right, But now they're so open to My dad is like, let's do mental health, like.

Sounds right, But now they're so open to My dad is like, let's do mental health, like.

You know the church and I'm like, what pastor.

You know the church and I'm like, what pastor.

But yeah, in the Caribbean, a lot of times I do outreach within the Caribbean American community. I'm Trinidadian, so I say, you know, mental health is ours. We're just calling it something different. Like you know, when you eat a curry and your ROTI those you know spices in there that is anti inflammatory. That's like, actually, yes, helping your brain. Okay, you're moving in your wine inside to side. That's bilateral stimulation.

But yeah, in the Caribbean, a lot of times I do outreach within the Caribbean American community. I'm Trinidadian, so I say, you know, mental health is ours. We're just calling it something different. Like you know, when you eat a curry and your ROTI those you know spices in there that is anti inflammatory. That's like, actually, yes, helping your brain. Okay, you're moving in your wine inside to side. That's bilateral stimulation.

Okay, we got all right, Carnival coach Jesse.

Okay, we got all right, Carnival coach Jesse.

Now all right.

Now all right.

Now, another thing that you also discussed, and I think this is important is venting.

Now, another thing that you also discussed, and I think this is important is venting.

The importance in venting, but the right way to do it.

The importance in venting, but the right way to do it.

Can we talk about that here, because I think this is something that a lot of people need to understand, including myself absolutely.

Can we talk about that here, because I think this is something that a lot of people need to understand, including myself absolutely.

You know, venting is when you express emotions and sometimes we trauma dump. We don't that like, we don't we don't ask consent, we don't say, hey, you know, is it okay? If I talk to you, we're just like right, and so we're not checking in to see how the other person feels it's good. And when you're venting without intention, you're not there for a specific goal. Like when you vent pick one or two people. Talk to someone you know is going to give you feedback that's honest and not just what you want to hear. Right, and think about who you're venting to, like are you venting to an employee? Are you venting to a child? You know, think about that power dynamic. Yes, because they're not going to say no. If you're the boss, they're gonna be like, all right, boss. And then they're gonna talk about you behind their back or vent at home to someone else.

You know, venting is when you express emotions and sometimes we trauma dump. We don't that like, we don't we don't ask consent, we don't say, hey, you know, is it okay? If I talk to you, we're just like right, and so we're not checking in to see how the other person feels it's good. And when you're venting without intention, you're not there for a specific goal. Like when you vent pick one or two people. Talk to someone you know is going to give you feedback that's honest and not just what you want to hear. Right, and think about who you're venting to, like are you venting to an employee? Are you venting to a child? You know, think about that power dynamic. Yes, because they're not going to say no. If you're the boss, they're gonna be like, all right, boss. And then they're gonna talk about you behind their back or vent at home to someone else.

Right, are there scenarios where the venting cannot because you know, one of the things we look at is there's times where you really just need to feel the feelings. Yes, right, and it's not time to give feedback yet. It's really just time to don't like vent, right, because I deal with this with my daughter. She's thirteen and she has a lot, which is good because it's healthy that she actually is sharing what's going on, and I typically I want to, well, is that give her feedback I'm learning now?

Right, are there scenarios where the venting cannot because you know, one of the things we look at is there's times where you really just need to feel the feelings. Yes, right, and it's not time to give feedback yet. It's really just time to don't like vent, right, because I deal with this with my daughter. She's thirteen and she has a lot, which is good because it's healthy that she actually is sharing what's going on, and I typically I want to, well, is that give her feedback I'm learning now?

It's like, no, you just got.

It's like, no, you just got.

To let her first of all, let her process it and then really do the list and then maybe come back a little afterwards or asked, do you want to hear about that?

To let her first of all, let her process it and then really do the list and then maybe come back a little afterwards or asked, do you want to hear about that?

No, When with teens especially, you want to do active listening. You want them to tell you how they feel, but then don't try to solve the problems. You know, like imagine your hands being like you're sitting on your hands, sit on my head, don't do any thing.

No, When with teens especially, you want to do active listening. You want them to tell you how they feel, but then don't try to solve the problems. You know, like imagine your hands being like you're sitting on your hands, sit on my head, don't do any thing.

Just listen.

Just listen.

But what's also helpful with teenagers is to have them self vent first, so they write their feelings into a journal, and then they talk about how they feel, and then they cool off a bit, and then they come to the person. Because a teen's brain is way more impulsive than our brain, so they're gonna be like, you know, self done and you know, and then connect.

But what's also helpful with teenagers is to have them self vent first, so they write their feelings into a journal, and then they talk about how they feel, and then they cool off a bit, and then they come to the person. Because a teen's brain is way more impulsive than our brain, so they're gonna be like, you know, self done and you know, and then connect.

One of the things you said earlier was, you know, mental health is ours.

One of the things you said earlier was, you know, mental health is ours.

Everybody's right. Why it's been found.

Everybody's right. Why it's been found.

I think you've talked about how people of color are more vulnerable, caregivers are more vulnerable. There are populations that are more vulnerable, and why is that.

I think you've talked about how people of color are more vulnerable, caregivers are more vulnerable. There are populations that are more vulnerable, and why is that.

Well, the caregiving is big. In my study, the first study ever published in a par review journal for high function depression, we found a high correlation between that and caregivers. They're constantly giving, they're constantly thinking about someone else. They don't have time to break down, right, That's why they're at risk for wearing that mask of productivity, because they can't show how they feel. So definitely they are at risk. But I say mental health is ours because we're all built with the DNA for joy.

Well, the caregiving is big. In my study, the first study ever published in a par review journal for high function depression, we found a high correlation between that and caregivers. They're constantly giving, they're constantly thinking about someone else. They don't have time to break down, right, That's why they're at risk for wearing that mask of productivity, because they can't show how they feel. So definitely they are at risk. But I say mental health is ours because we're all built with the DNA for joy.

Yeah, we all.

Yeah, we all.

Have dopemine in our brains. We just we forget how to access it. And that's why I came up with that method. The five v's because when you think about your hand, right, most of us have five fingers, right, But if you can tap into one of those v's a day, you can reclaim your joy.

Have dopemine in our brains. We just we forget how to access it. And that's why I came up with that method. The five v's because when you think about your hand, right, most of us have five fingers, right, But if you can tap into one of those v's a day, you can reclaim your joy.

It's our birthright to be joyful.

It's our birthright to be joyful.

Yes, So the first V validation VALIDATIONWAD acknowledge how you feel and accept it good or bad. You know, I'd liken it to being in like a dark room and if something fell or something made a big noise, you wouldn't know what it was. You start swinging, you didn't know, But if you turn the light on, you see, oh, it's just something that you know fell. It's not going to hurt me. That's how acknowledging your feelings is. By acknowledging and knowing how you feel, you're decreasing the uncertainty and you're more at ease.

Yes, So the first V validation VALIDATIONWAD acknowledge how you feel and accept it good or bad. You know, I'd liken it to being in like a dark room and if something fell or something made a big noise, you wouldn't know what it was. You start swinging, you didn't know, But if you turn the light on, you see, oh, it's just something that you know fell. It's not going to hurt me. That's how acknowledging your feelings is. By acknowledging and knowing how you feel, you're decreasing the uncertainty and you're more at ease.

You're increasing the safety, right because when there's uncertainty, you're feeling that fight or flight. So it's I'll let you continue that because I want to get into the nervous system.

You're increasing the safety, right because when there's uncertainty, you're feeling that fight or flight. So it's I'll let you continue that because I want to get into the nervous system.

But that's obviously right when you know what you're dealing with, That itself is a therapeutic intervention because you know it now so you know what to do next.

But that's obviously right when you know what you're dealing with, That itself is a therapeutic intervention because you know it now so you know what to do next.

And the second V is venting.

And the second V is venting.

That's the expressing fee.

That's the expressing fee.

For some people that don't like to talk, that's okay. Pray crying is a good way to journaling.

For some people that don't like to talk, that's okay. Pray crying is a good way to journaling.

Like you said, journaling, just get it out right. And the third is values. What are the things in life that are priceless, not with price tags, you know? For me, I used to chase the degrees and this and the accolades, but what really gives me a sense of purpose and meaningless connection. So be real about what your values are. And I list them all in the book as well. And then the fourth is vitals. Take care of your body and brain because you only get one and you're here for a reason. There's only one Jesse, only one Angela, only one Judith ever to exist and in the future of the universe, so take care of yourself.

Like you said, journaling, just get it out right. And the third is values. What are the things in life that are priceless, not with price tags, you know? For me, I used to chase the degrees and this and the accolades, but what really gives me a sense of purpose and meaningless connection. So be real about what your values are. And I list them all in the book as well. And then the fourth is vitals. Take care of your body and brain because you only get one and you're here for a reason. There's only one Jesse, only one Angela, only one Judith ever to exist and in the future of the universe, so take care of yourself.

Jesse likes that I've been preaching that, yes, you know.

Jesse likes that I've been preaching that, yes, you know.

So for envision, when we tevision.

So for envision, when we tevision.

Vision is how do you plan join the future so you don't get stuck in the past, you keep moving forward.

Vision is how do you plan join the future so you don't get stuck in the past, you keep moving forward.

So I've heard a therapist was talking about how people who can think about the future, plan for the future are less to have a psychotic episode.

So I've heard a therapist was talking about how people who can think about the future, plan for the future are less to have a psychotic episode.

Having something to look forward to. We all need hope.

Having something to look forward to. We all need hope.

That's my goal. That's what I do.

That's my goal. That's what I do.

I do give myself things to look forward to, even if it's like Christmas, I'm going away.

I do give myself things to look forward to, even if it's like Christmas, I'm going away.

It's something I think about every day.

It's something I think about every day.

And that's that's a big one right now. It doesn't have to be a big like after I finished with you all, I'm gonna have a really nice macho latte.

And that's that's a big one right now. It doesn't have to be a big like after I finished with you all, I'm gonna have a really nice macho latte.

I'm looking forward to that. You know, it's little.

I'm looking forward to that. You know, it's little.

Things that you can control.

Things that you can control.

Schedule a massage for next week, and it's like, but it is things that you're like, all right, at least I'm gonna get this massage next week.

Schedule a massage for next week, and it's like, but it is things that you're like, all right, at least I'm gonna get this massage next week.

Isn't feel so good. I need it in my back.

Isn't feel so good. I need it in my back.

But you're right, And those are the things I do feel like. That's something that I have. Like Dan is the way he just my producer got married. I'm like when he I'm taking a day. So those are the things.

But you're right, And those are the things I do feel like. That's something that I have. Like Dan is the way he just my producer got married. I'm like when he I'm taking a day. So those are the things.

Now. Another thing that now, there's certain.

Now. Another thing that now, there's certain.

Jobs, and you talk about there's certain professions that actually will make you more prone to high functioning depression.

Jobs, and you talk about there's certain professions that actually will make you more prone to high functioning depression.

Like the caregier thing, right.

Like the caregier thing, right.

And so can we talk about that because even for you when you were anesthesiologist, that affected you so much that you would like time to make a switch. How do people know when it's okay? How can I work on this? Or maybe I just can't even do this at all anymore.

And so can we talk about that because even for you when you were anesthesiologist, that affected you so much that you would like time to make a switch. How do people know when it's okay? How can I work on this? Or maybe I just can't even do this at all anymore.

Maybe it's toxic for me, Maybe it's really dangerous for me.

Maybe it's toxic for me, Maybe it's really dangerous for me.

Right, And that member burnout is tied to the occupation. Sometimes it's the case of both, right, a job burning you out, and you also have that internal restlessness that no matter what job you're in, you're going to be overproducing. Right, So it can be both. But there are certain you know, industries that are prone for this entertainment, you have to always be on. You can't like who wants to hire you. You're not going to get the gig if you're sad, right, Right, So you're constantly in productive mode, right. Healthcare you're taking care of page. You're not looking after yourself. Sometimes I talk to nurses. They haven't peed all day?

Right, And that member burnout is tied to the occupation. Sometimes it's the case of both, right, a job burning you out, and you also have that internal restlessness that no matter what job you're in, you're going to be overproducing. Right, So it can be both. But there are certain you know, industries that are prone for this entertainment, you have to always be on. You can't like who wants to hire you. You're not going to get the gig if you're sad, right, Right, So you're constantly in productive mode, right. Healthcare you're taking care of page. You're not looking after yourself. Sometimes I talk to nurses. They haven't peed all day?

Right, right, Wow, haven't had any water done?

Right, right, Wow, haven't had any water done?

Nothing?

Nothing?

Like teachers, Yes, teacher, man, that's such a tough job that I feel like they don't get the rewards that they deserve.

Like teachers, Yes, teacher, man, that's such a tough job that I feel like they don't get the rewards that they deserve.

They don't.

They don't.

They're invalidated all the time. And entrepreneurs right constantly thinking about whether or not they're going to fail. That fair of failure keeps them busy even when they're not at work.

They're invalidated all the time. And entrepreneurs right constantly thinking about whether or not they're going to fail. That fair of failure keeps them busy even when they're not at work.

Yeah, frontline workers, it's like you don't get to have your own life. No. Right, when we look back at the pandemic, it was like even though everybody was going through something, they still had to show up for everybody.

Yeah, frontline workers, it's like you don't get to have your own life. No. Right, when we look back at the pandemic, it was like even though everybody was going through something, they still had to show up for everybody.

They do, they do. They are constantly thinking about others.

They do, they do. They are constantly thinking about others.

Can I ask you about something else that I've seen too? Attack to Joseph, I want to talk about people who are always a victim no matter what the situation is, because there are people that actually, no matter what happens, they'll find a way to make it seem like they were wronged somehow in a situation, or this happened to me and that's why this is the situation, instead of saying, well, maybe I could have done something differently, or perhaps I played a role in this.

Can I ask you about something else that I've seen too? Attack to Joseph, I want to talk about people who are always a victim no matter what the situation is, because there are people that actually, no matter what happens, they'll find a way to make it seem like they were wronged somehow in a situation, or this happened to me and that's why this is the situation, instead of saying, well, maybe I could have done something differently, or perhaps I played a role in this.

But I know a few people who are kind of like that.

But I know a few people who are kind of like that.

They're always like complaining about venting about how somebody did this to them and that's why this happened.

They're always like complaining about venting about how somebody did this to them and that's why this happened.

How would that be categorized? Yeah, it's so different from what the high functioning folks do. We blame ourselves, like, oh I wish I had done something differently or I wouldn't be like this. But other people who have a hard time with accountability that could be for different reasons. They may have been raised in a household where they were praised and they were like the favorite.

How would that be categorized? Yeah, it's so different from what the high functioning folks do. We blame ourselves, like, oh I wish I had done something differently or I wouldn't be like this. But other people who have a hard time with accountability that could be for different reasons. They may have been raised in a household where they were praised and they were like the favorite.

Chalivated, right, yeah, and the other.

Chalivated, right, yeah, and the other.

Kids were the bad ones. And so if you're not taught along the way to have that empathy and to be able to see someone else's perspective, then you're always right.

Kids were the bad ones. And so if you're not taught along the way to have that empathy and to be able to see someone else's perspective, then you're always right.

You're the self awareness right, because you're not taught to look and reflect on yourself.

You're the self awareness right, because you're not taught to look and reflect on yourself.

If you know somebody, you're close to, somebody who you like, I feel like nah, hearing dad to Joseph speak, that person might have high functioning depression, but they're not really willing to listen or accept that. How do you deal with that? Like, how do you get somebody to open up their minds help?

If you know somebody, you're close to, somebody who you like, I feel like nah, hearing dad to Joseph speak, that person might have high functioning depression, but they're not really willing to listen or accept that. How do you deal with that? Like, how do you get somebody to open up their minds help?

Know that this person does not want to burden you, so they're not going to acknowledge that they need help. But that's okay. You know, you want to show them that they don't have to be performing or doing to gain your acceptance and love. So you can tell them, you know, I don't we don't have to do nothing. You don't have to cook, you have to take me out. I will be happy just sitting with you because I'm here just for you.

Know that this person does not want to burden you, so they're not going to acknowledge that they need help. But that's okay. You know, you want to show them that they don't have to be performing or doing to gain your acceptance and love. So you can tell them, you know, I don't we don't have to do nothing. You don't have to cook, you have to take me out. I will be happy just sitting with you because I'm here just for you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you know, on the surface level their brain they may not be able to take that in, but over time, on a deeper level, it'll sink in.

And you know, on the surface level their brain they may not be able to take that in, but over time, on a deeper level, it'll sink in.

I think I see what you're saying.

I think I see what you're saying.

It's like it's starting to give them a safe place, right, creating a safe place without them feeling like you're asking them to do anything and you don't need anything from them, right, So literally just being with them where they are.

It's like it's starting to give them a safe place, right, creating a safe place without them feeling like you're asking them to do anything and you don't need anything from them, right, So literally just being with them where they are.

Yeah, and also realizing that this is a trauma. Responts likely that after a trauma. We told children and adults number one, it is not your fault. So know that they're likely thinking, well, they must have done something in life to be this way, right, So make sure that they know it's not their fault, that you're there for them no matter what.

Yeah, and also realizing that this is a trauma. Responts likely that after a trauma. We told children and adults number one, it is not your fault. So know that they're likely thinking, well, they must have done something in life to be this way, right, So make sure that they know it's not their fault, that you're there for them no matter what.

Right.

Right.

And when they see that, they can let down their guards, they can slow down, they can just be They don't have to be busy all the time.

And when they see that, they can let down their guards, they can slow down, they can just be They don't have to be busy all the time.

One thing you also referenced a few times in the book was getting divorced and how hard that was. What were some of the things that you did to be able to accept that and and keep it moving.

One thing you also referenced a few times in the book was getting divorced and how hard that was. What were some of the things that you did to be able to accept that and and keep it moving.

Wow.

Wow.

Well, divorce is one of the traumas I put in the Trauma Inventory.

Well, divorce is one of the traumas I put in the Trauma Inventory.

You won't it's found in the regular you won't find it in the record.

You won't it's found in the regular you won't find it in the record.

But it is.

But it is.

Hard, you know, especially if kids and their financial issues involved. So I put that in there for a reason because it's one of those tap boots people won't talk about. For me, as someone who had to be like perfect all the time, it was very diffult for me to talk about. And I think I talk about in the book about how I didn't even tell my therapist about it, and she's like.

Hard, you know, especially if kids and their financial issues involved. So I put that in there for a reason because it's one of those tap boots people won't talk about. For me, as someone who had to be like perfect all the time, it was very diffult for me to talk about. And I think I talk about in the book about how I didn't even tell my therapist about it, and she's like.

What, she had no idea.

What, she had no idea.

But it's important because it's something that a lot of people busy themselves to distract from. And I've seen it in my patients. When I go to these talking agents, people say it too. It's one of those traumas that does that to you, so acknowledge it.

But it's important because it's something that a lot of people busy themselves to distract from. And I've seen it in my patients. When I go to these talking agents, people say it too. It's one of those traumas that does that to you, so acknowledge it.

Yeah, it's like somehow you're trying to convince yourself that it's not because something was wrong with you.

Yeah, it's like somehow you're trying to convince yourself that it's not because something was wrong with you.

Well, or that you the opposite, like you think you must have done something.

Well, or that you the opposite, like you think you must have done something.

Right that I'm saying I must have done.

Right that I'm saying I must have done.

Yeah, the people down because my mom she's Caribbean.

Yeah, the people down because my mom she's Caribbean.

Oh yeah, and my grandparents are super religious, and so for them it was like divorces and no, no, like you absolutely cannot.

Oh yeah, and my grandparents are super religious, and so for them it was like divorces and no, no, like you absolutely cannot.

You have to figure it out.

You have to figure it out.

I'm not even thinking what that could.

I'm not even thinking what that could.

It could cause more damage staying in a relationship, definitely, because.

It could cause more damage staying in a relationship, definitely, because.

Sometimes it feels like society looks at it like you gave up if you get divorced instead of saying I want happiness.

Sometimes it feels like society looks at it like you gave up if you get divorced instead of saying I want happiness.

Divorce content is some of the busiest. Look at the the comments is like a full on brawl. I did this one video on generations like looking at how boomers, maget X, millennials, and gen Z approach divorce. That is one of my most viral videos because people have very strong opinions about divorce. I'm not saying I'm ford or against it, but for some people, certain unions have a season and after that that's it. But it is a trauma because it's actually listed as one of the childhood adverse events underneath.

Divorce content is some of the busiest. Look at the the comments is like a full on brawl. I did this one video on generations like looking at how boomers, maget X, millennials, and gen Z approach divorce. That is one of my most viral videos because people have very strong opinions about divorce. I'm not saying I'm ford or against it, but for some people, certain unions have a season and after that that's it. But it is a trauma because it's actually listed as one of the childhood adverse events underneath.

That's correct.

That's correct.

Actually it's one of the highest ones. Right if your parents got divorced, right, and so why.

Actually it's one of the highest ones. Right if your parents got divorced, right, and so why.

Wouldn't it be if you were going through it?

Wouldn't it be if you were going through it?

Yes?

Yes?

And so do you feel like you have reclaimed your joy.

And so do you feel like you have reclaimed your joy.

A hundred percent?

A hundred percent?

I mean I used to be so busy that my aunt Handonia was just like h But finding a way to connect with people again, because that's my point of joy is connection through socials, through communities, through just day to day in my office with my family. That's real joy from me. And I feel like before I was chasing the values that were superficial and while tapping into the ones that brought me purpose and meaning.

I mean I used to be so busy that my aunt Handonia was just like h But finding a way to connect with people again, because that's my point of joy is connection through socials, through communities, through just day to day in my office with my family. That's real joy from me. And I feel like before I was chasing the values that were superficial and while tapping into the ones that brought me purpose and meaning.

You know, one of the things we talk a lot about is emphasizing natural health solutions.

You know, one of the things we talk a lot about is emphasizing natural health solutions.

Right, and there are you know, healing.

Right, and there are you know, healing.

Is holistic, so yes, there's the mental health support you need. And then there are also things that actually exhibit because or they mimic the symptoms because it can be vitamin deficiencies or hormonal and balance right, and we find that there are a lot of women who they're experiencing these things they don't realize, well, you're actually D three deficient, so deficient that you're feeling like this right, absolutely, it actually could cause exacerbate, exacerbated perimenopause menopause symptoms. Mimicking them actually and then taking it causes the stress to be even worse in terms of the impact on your body.

Is holistic, so yes, there's the mental health support you need. And then there are also things that actually exhibit because or they mimic the symptoms because it can be vitamin deficiencies or hormonal and balance right, and we find that there are a lot of women who they're experiencing these things they don't realize, well, you're actually D three deficient, so deficient that you're feeling like this right, absolutely, it actually could cause exacerbate, exacerbated perimenopause menopause symptoms. Mimicking them actually and then taking it causes the stress to be even worse in terms of the impact on your body.

Talk about that.

Talk about that.

I always check because in my lab we do blood work, and so I always check for vitamin deficiencies because my high functioning folks they're not eating properly. They're like shoving the food, the process food, and they're getting their nutrients right, They're too busy.

I always check because in my lab we do blood work, and so I always check for vitamin deficiencies because my high functioning folks they're not eating properly. They're like shoving the food, the process food, and they're getting their nutrients right, They're too busy.

They're not getting their own megas, they're not getting their anti inflammatories.

They're not getting their own megas, they're not getting their anti inflammatories.

So I check the panels because a lot of them are B deficient, vitamin D deficient, and you need these things for your brain to be happy. I always say, like, know the science of your happiness, right, your happiness is different than mine, Your science is different than mine. And in my book I talk about the bio psychosocial model. Biologically, that person who's not getting the nutrients, they're going to need some help.

So I check the panels because a lot of them are B deficient, vitamin D deficient, and you need these things for your brain to be happy. I always say, like, know the science of your happiness, right, your happiness is different than mine, Your science is different than mine. And in my book I talk about the bio psychosocial model. Biologically, that person who's not getting the nutrients, they're going to need some help.

They're need some support.

They're need some support.

There, yes, but someone else may not write and then psychologically, what is your trauma, what's your attachment style? Socially what are the habits you're engaging in? So we all have our own fingerprints, but we also all have our own biopsychosocial So understand the science of your happiness. Learn what's pulling away from your happiness, so you know how to punished that.

There, yes, but someone else may not write and then psychologically, what is your trauma, what's your attachment style? Socially what are the habits you're engaging in? So we all have our own fingerprints, but we also all have our own biopsychosocial So understand the science of your happiness. Learn what's pulling away from your happiness, so you know how to punished that.

That's very interesting. You mentioned attachments. How when you go back to the trauma piece, some people are dealing with trauma because they never learned healthy attachments.

That's very interesting. You mentioned attachments. How when you go back to the trauma piece, some people are dealing with trauma because they never learned healthy attachments.

They learned it, they never learned it, and they don't even understand their attachment style.

They learned it, they never learned it, and they don't even understand their attachment style.

They think, Oh, I'm just not a relationship.

They think, Oh, I'm just not a relationship.

Person, right, I'm just I'm just disconnected. No, you never attached in the first place.

Person, right, I'm just I'm just disconnected. No, you never attached in the first place.

Right, man, Well, this book is amazing. How have people received it from? Oh, we got it at the Van's Copies, you got.

Right, man, Well, this book is amazing. How have people received it from? Oh, we got it at the Van's Copies, you got.

Okay, it just came out yesterday, but was sold out.

Okay, it just came out yesterday, but was sold out.

My launch party sold good, so good, I was the word.

My launch party sold good, so good, I was the word.

I was like, nobody's gonna come and I'm like, oh, wow, thank you.

I was like, nobody's gonna come and I'm like, oh, wow, thank you.

Now, congratulations on that though well deserved. I have to say I was fascinated while I was reading this taking quizzes.

Now, congratulations on that though well deserved. I have to say I was fascinated while I was reading this taking quizzes.

I was a little ashamed. I was like, it might be.

I was a little ashamed. I was like, it might be.

What is your hope for you know in this work? What do you want to see it do?

What is your hope for you know in this work? What do you want to see it do?

I want people to take the quiz and say, oh my gosh, Anne Hondonia never knew what that was, and now I can do something about it. A lack of joy is a problem. You were again, everyone was born with the DNA for joy it's your birthright.

I want people to take the quiz and say, oh my gosh, Anne Hondonia never knew what that was, and now I can do something about it. A lack of joy is a problem. You were again, everyone was born with the DNA for joy it's your birthright.

So reclaim it.

So reclaim it.

And I want them to learn about ways that they can do it in a fun way. It's a book about high function of pressure, but I think it's really fun, so I think people will be surprised.

And I want them to learn about ways that they can do it in a fun way. It's a book about high function of pressure, but I think it's really fun, so I think people will be surprised.

You can't.

You can't.

You can't talk about the pressure without talking about happiness, so it has to put both in there.

You can't talk about the pressure without talking about happiness, so it has to put both in there.

I just think of certain circumstances because I definitely took the quiz right and some things I got to work on. But even like reading for joy. First of all, I was an English major.

I just think of certain circumstances because I definitely took the quiz right and some things I got to work on. But even like reading for joy. First of all, I was an English major.

I love reading.

I love reading.

I read all the time this But but you talk about how even for you something that you used to find so much joy in, You know, going to school and having to study will change that.

I read all the time this But but you talk about how even for you something that you used to find so much joy in, You know, going to school and having to study will change that.

It does. Yeah, exhausted love reading.

It does. Yeah, exhausted love reading.

It can exhaust you so much.

It can exhaust you so much.

Are you back on that now?

Are you back on that now?

Oh my gosh.

Oh my gosh.

The book that made me realize how much I was missing out and joy was Michelle Obama's Becoming. I can talk about that and they are as like I was, like, I forgot that I used to read for joy, and after I read that book, I started reading again.

The book that made me realize how much I was missing out and joy was Michelle Obama's Becoming. I can talk about that and they are as like I was, like, I forgot that I used to read for joy, and after I read that book, I started reading again.

One of the questions is do you find it difficult to be present while experiencing simple pleasures. I think one of the issues with that is that people are on their phones all the time, and it's really hard for people to focus at a function, at dinner with their significant other, watching a movie, whatever it is, because they just keep on picking up their phone to do certain to just scroll and do those things when you can't even like be present in the moment.

One of the questions is do you find it difficult to be present while experiencing simple pleasures. I think one of the issues with that is that people are on their phones all the time, and it's really hard for people to focus at a function, at dinner with their significant other, watching a movie, whatever it is, because they just keep on picking up their phone to do certain to just scroll and do those things when you can't even like be present in the moment.

That's part of the business, right, you can't sit still? What do you do? You have to busy yourself on your phone, so before you know.

That's part of the business, right, you can't sit still? What do you do? You have to busy yourself on your phone, so before you know.

What, you're screws.

What, you're screws.

So do you offer solutions some tips in terms of things that people should do.

So do you offer solutions some tips in terms of things that people should do.

Well for the busying with the phone. I offer my reset method, so you know. The R is realize how socials or being online is impacting you, because many of us don't even realize that. Is it getting a way of your productivity? Is it making you less connected to the people that you.