Welcome everyone. This is View from the Raptors Today. We're bringing in a man who hails from basketball country. Life is funny. Don't go there, not yet. Well, we talked about the bus one boys. Is the crazy story, not act the crazy thing to me, like where you came from. Yeah, we're all older than we think. We are always goldly Gray Batty. Hey everyone, that's your host, Mark Demko. Welcome back for another episode of View from the Raptors. Behind the scenes with the Boston Celtics. Today's episode is all about scouting. What do scouts go through on a daily basis. What are the stories that they experience traveling not only around the US to find players for the Celtics, but traveling around the world to find players to come and play for the Boston Celtics. Let me tell you, they've got some crazy stories. And on this episode, Sean Grandy and I are sitting down with Assistant general manager Austin Ainge. We've got one of our scouts, Ashley Battle, who is one of the only female black scouts in the entire NBA A some of you in New England will know her name very well, winning a couple of championships at Yukon for the women's team. And then we're gonna wrap up with a conversation with Celtics international scout Bennice Macavicious and let me tell you, he's got some wild stories about what he has experienced going to some games overseas. Every Tuesday, new episodes will be dropping on your favorite podcast platform, and every Wednesday we'll have new episodes on the Celtics YouTube page. So make sure you subscribe, rate, review us. We appreciate you listening and watching. Without further ado, here it is. Here's our conversation with not only Austin Age and Ashley Battle, but wrapping up with Bennice Macavicius. Alright, so Austin Ange, Ashley Battle. Uh, the whole purpose of this podcast episode is to get an inside look at what you're all doing on the road and like the craziness that's associated with this. So, Austin, I know you've been doing this forever, a million miles logged on flights, probably stayed in thousands of hotel rooms. At this point, let's just jump right in. What's the craziest story that you can tell us from from your travel adventures over the years. I've got a I've got a number. Europe is usually where the real, real fun happens. Um Mario Hazonia. I was here scouting him when he was playing for Barcelona, and I went to watch a game in Athens, Greece of his and Barcelona was up early and someone called in a bomb threat and I didn't know what was going on there, speaking Greek over the last speakers and everything, and I grabbed an agent. It's like, hey, what is going on? He goes, Oh, don't worry, don't worry. This happens if the gamblers are down and they're worried, stop the momentum. And so they evacuated us. They pull us all out for forty minutes, let the bomb stiffing dogs do a loop, and then they bring us all back in. But they don't they don't check tickets on the way back in. So it's just like a mass hysteria running around. And but if you know, that's that's the fun, the momentum, momentum. Yeah, actually yeah, patth and I goes a little bit, did they did they find up flipping and the other team one? You know, I don't even at least covered. Did you make a note of how Mario responded to the adversity of a bomb threat. It was really just kind of boring, but it was scary for a minute. And tell everyone, you know, I looking around, everyone just thought it was routine. This is just what we do it everyday thing For the people who don't know. I mean, before I met you guys, before I worked in this industry, I probably would have envisioned the scout is on the road, sitting in you know, down by the court, having their own section, nice lap. A lot of times you're just in the crowd, right, So in that scenario, is that what the experience was? Were you just sitting in a normal seat? You know, actually can talk about this too, but it's totally random. How you know, different venues, college, ge League, NBA, Europe, all these different leagues and teams treat visiting outs, right. Sometimes you sit on the front row, and they changed like a V I B and no front row anymore. Sometimes you're on the upper deck. I remember one time I was going to scout Marcus Smart at Oklahoma State, and all the scouts that gave us a seat in the upper deck, Like I can't see I need to watch this guy. We have a big high I need to see. I snucked down in the student section and I was jumping with the fans. I started the whole way just so I could get a better How old were you with that? Did you fit in? This is? I mean how long has spart been with eight years ago? Eight years was probably nine years ago? Okay, yeah, yeah, so you know early thirties where you could have in Yeah. Whatever, you're just getting your masters, whatever it takes. I've jumped fences in Italy to get in games, whatever it takes. Sometimes the credentials not there. You got to see the game. If you ever called in a bomb threat, if you relate to try to stop my medum a few times, file that away for really desperate pleasures. Ashley, what's uh, what's the one that you get in the chamber for us here? Craziest stories? I mean, I haven't been doing this as long as Austin, so I haven't had any bomb threats yet. But you're mostly domestic, mostly domestic, So mine has just been flight coordination and trying to get to a place on time versus not making it at all. Earlier last season or last year, you know, Christmas time, there was that huge like snowstorm that was taking over the Midwest. I was in Vegas at ge League showcase, trying to get back to the East Coast, and I called to change my flight and they're like, oh, did you call the change because of the weather? Like what weather? Because you have no clue what's going on really on the outside, you're just like what's going on the weather? Because you're dolled into what you're doing. And I'm like, wait, there's a snowstorm. I'm like when is this supposed to hit? So now I'm like trying to be a meteologist and trying to figure out, like, Okay, if I leave at this time, i could get to Pittsburgh at this time and I'll miss all the weather. Uh. So, long story short, I went to change my flight. They changed it for the wrong day, So the day of the flight that I think I'm leaving on and I'm like figuring out, like, can you change my flight back to like change it to this day? You change the wrong day? The ladies yelling at me. I'm like, actually, I'm pretty calm right now. I understood we just did some improximately, guess yes, And so I like, yes, I understand your frustration, and however, you know, I'd really like for you to change my flight. That would be real. Change it. She did, and I made it home in time. It's just the weather. You didn't get stuck rough. I mean extra time in Vegas is no one would want that. Man, I mean three four days in Vegas not see his sunlight might be ready to go. The shouldn't let people stay in there from one three day. You should have to leave. You should after a while. This have like, have you gone out there for the entire summer league before? I've never paid it? Okay, yeah, because I have multiple times, and like ten days in Vegas brutal, especially brutal when you may or may not be partaking in it's your curricular activities, not just the work portion. That can be a long time in Las Vegas. That that that I can confirm. I'm not a party guy anyway, but for me, those days in Vegas, I'm toast like just the work part. I'm saying, it's it's yeah, ten meetings with people, and those are long days for for us because free agency exactly G League team you're usually hiring staff and interviewing and there's just a ton nonstuff It's just like any You know a lot of people out there, I'm sure have conferences for work, big conventions or whatever. It's the field, so you have all of that, and then you have other people who are just there who are trying to network, can get a job. So it becomes it becomes a lot. Vegas is a lot. Everyone in your field has these crazy travel stories, and there is a mythology to what you do. From red going to see Halicheck at Ohio State right, and then walking out these long trips to find a player in the middle of nowhere. It makes me wonder this. We are in an unprecedented age of video. I can watch my son is eleven, he plays hockey. We're on the road. I'm watching calling our game. I can watch his game from three thousand miles away. What is the inherent value of seeing somebody live when now you could literally watch almost anything that player has done in a game or a practice for years. Well, there's a lot that you could get from seeing somebody live. I mean, sometimes when you're watching one TV, how tall they really are, their length, you know, how they're actually moving. Some of that sometimes get misconstrued. But when you see somebody live. You can see their man neroism is how they interact with their teammates. You can get intel from their coaching staff. I mean there's a lot of you know, advantages of seeing somebody live versus you know, always watching. In my film, it's a great question, Sean, and we talk about it all the time, the trade offs because you can be more efficient at home. It's you know, travel is expensive and it's a lot and and we can watch bomb threats. Yeah, we can watch every game they've ever played, and we have programs that we can watch there. I want to watch three pointers in the fourth quarter the last five games and just click play and they'll play him in a row that you can get very granular if you want. But um, a big part of our travel is what actually alluded to, is is kind of our intel gathering. Um, if you go meet and establish rapport and relationships with coaches and people around the league, you get a lot more in person than cold calls. So you know, we want to know this kid work hard, does he stay out of trouble off the court, how's he doing the weight room, how does he do out of time out plays? You know, all these things that you know you. You can watch and see, but you can get a lot of info from staff. Sean. Before we follow up on that, I want to ask you the exact same thing, because for a couple of years you had to experience doing things remote. So how do things change when you are there in person for what you're doing. I see my kid less. Uh it was I think all of us during the pandemic, right, no matter what field we're in, what we're doing, we found a way to make our jobs work. And then you don't realize when you go back to doing it the way it's supposed to be done. It's like you know, age old dated reference but going back to color from black and white in the Wizard of Oz, like, Okay, this is how it's supposed to be. You're seeing it again. And crazy things in my job where all of a sudden, I'm dependent on seeing whatever they put on the camera in front of me. And for example, when they used the wrong feed one night we had a turner game, so instead of getting the wide camera feed of the game, I got what's called the ISO camera, which is somebody zooming in literally on the face. So when the beard was dribbling, all I could see was the beard, so you could not you know. So, Uh, that's the reason I asked about seeing somebody live. I often, back in the days when we would at courtside, you'd sit next to the advanced Galt team is playing the Celtics, and you say, man, you can watch literally every game exactly as you describe, and you can break down every play. I asked us a Joe sometimes when we're playing a team on the back to back, when you're used to watching a team with the video breakdown, but you can watch them live, do you watch it live? And how is it different even just watching a game on TV. So that's why I'm always fascinating how people taking the information. It's like any I mean, we're investing millions of dollars the opportunity costs on top of that, and we all want to win. So you have these these high high stakes and it's scary too invest that type of resources into a person without at least seeing them a couple of times. You know. It's just it's just that there's also that peace of mind on top of all the intangible things we're talking about. That's the other interesting thing to me though, for what you to do and the rest of your group for that matter, and Ben Scs coming out later in in this episode, but the like, you don't know what the payoff is going to be for all of the work that you're putting in. I'm sure you put in thousands of hours on players coming into the draft or you know, even around the leave and when we don't have a draft pick exactly that that's that's my whole point is like, I guess how do you parse that out and figure out how much time to invest in you know, X, Y and Z versus. I mean, you just got to know all the best players and that payoff comes guaranteed. Right. There's there's this this is the trade deadline week. When we're recording this, we will have hundreds of conversations about these guys, and every team in the league calls and checks in. You talk about different things, and you just bounce ideas and and you need to know all those guys, you know, whether they're on your team or not, and you need to have a general idea. You can always do some last minute research, but sometimes the trade deadline, there's an hour to go and you get a call. You you can't go back and watch film or on draft night, there's thirty seconds till the next pick. You gotta pull the trigger. And and so that research is there. And and even if let's say I'm watching a kid at at a local school here and he doesn't get drafted, he'll go in the G League, or he'll go play in Europe, and three years from now he'll get better and I'll have a great year in Spain, and I'll need to know him. And if I don't have that baseline, it it's starting from zero and it's harder. So all of that work does pay off, it's just not always immediate. Right. You mentioned um earlier and prior to me, kind of diverting our conversation here, you mentioned kind of the intel. Yeah, part of this whole thing. Take us inside what is that collection process? Like who do you need to talk to to get that intel? And then associated with that the relationship development that you need to make with probably hundreds and hundreds of people around the country for you around the world to be able to have information that you trust. Right, well, my experience is probably a little bit different than Austin's right now, because I'm still very new to this and still building out. You know, people that I know in the relationships that I'm a building. So mine is literally like a cold call. Hey, that's the battle for the Celtics. Um, I'm here to you know, usually when people hear the Celtics, they kind of be like, okay, they kind of relax a little bit long just right right exactly, so, but you're just you know, asking questions, you know, similarly to what Austin said earlier, just really trying to get a good idea of who this person is it and that can come from literally anybody. It could come from the managers, that could come from the coach and staff, it could come from uh coaches. I mean, it can literally come from anybody that has a relationship with this with this player. It's a small world basketball world. We get to know a lot of the same people. I joked that I travel the entire world and see the same forty guys or ever you know, everywhere I go. So you do get to know a lot of people and and um, and none of this is to say that we just take some um, you know, assistant coaches word because they don't always know we We just take their perspective and we put it in with our own perspective and multiple other sources, and we just try to get as clear a picture as you can. And then in the end, you're still trying to guess how a nineteen year old will react to the NBA game and millions of dollars, and it's it's still a very educated guests in the end. Is this why it's so important to have new voices in the room coming from different places? Absolutely, you know it. It's we have a good mix of continuity and new voices. And you're always trying to learn, I mean always trying to talk to people and how they do things. And and I've have dinner with with all these guys on the road and long drives sometimes will carpool different scouts and exects. Just hey, we're all going the same place, and you just talk and exchange ideas and and there's definitely some some some new perspectives. Actually has has played in completely different leagues. She's played all over the world and the w n B A and and has a very good insight on stuff that that I have things I would have seen. Uh this because this is the one that has been killing me ever since we decided to sit down and do this so actually you're sitting in a room with a bunch of other people who, in the quote unquote real world, are completely unemployable. All right, we are pretty much have useless stay to day skills. We have stumbled into sports as we couldn't do anything else. You made a conscious choice to leave to the real world. You actually had an actual professional job with adults, and yet you chose to step back into this world. Why with not adults? Putting it kindly, Uh, you know, this is always been where I wanted to be, Like I knew for years now, I wanted to be on the team side. I just didn't know how I was going to get there. Um, so it took for me going into banking, going into financial planning, working at the league office, going to Nike to findly make it here. So and and everyone's journey is different. I mean I also, you know, have an extensive, extensive basketball background, but everyone's journey is different. I mean there's people we have someone who just came from college who came straight over. So you can come out that way, or you can take the long way like like I did to get over here. But you know, it's this is where I've always wanted to be and you know, I'm fortunate to be able to do that here with Celtics that reinforce more because you spent that time doing other things that it feels more like home when you come back to it. Oh man, it's it's been great. It has really been great. I think, uh, you know, the way my career ended on an injury, like a lot of athletes, and you're just I was bitter, you know, I was really bitter about the game and about just how things ended. And it took me a while to really, you know, find my love for basketball again. And when I did that, I was like locked in, like the all right, you know, like I don't know why I did, why I stepped away for so long, but you know, this is this is it, this is what I want to do. And you know, it's great having you know, people who believe in you, who know what you're worth, is what your value is and what you could bring to the table. And and then you have to believe in that as well. And if you're confident in what you have to do and what you have to say, then you'll be able to get it done. Did you get to play lunchtime pick up? At your investment banking. Uh. No, I used to I used to leave and go. I used to leave and go to to the why the play and pick up in the morning before before work, before work, I used to go and in Pittsburgh, I would play, uh like we play at like six or something like that in the morning before work. See. You know, there's gonna be a podcast about the Joe Mazoula pickup game out there. That will be one day that will be at about the human beings that have been destroyed or something from that one. I'll be careful in your He's not the same thing. Once I was like, yeah, I'm good. That's the first time I've ever seen a coach miss action because of his pickup games. I've never seen that, you know, Devin Booker said, Hey, we don't. We don't double one, you know pickup. No, he's not, he's not playing. We just tackle. Actually, you came out on the podcast last year during Women's History Month, and I know you talked about wanting to be able to lift other people like you because there aren't a lot of female black scouts in the league. How many are there that you are aware of? Uh, at least for now, it's a small number. It's a small number. Arey small number. It's probably even smaller when you started. What does that mean to you? For sure? I just think, you know, there's a lot of diversity that's happening. There's a lot of you know, people who understand that even though you know, we're women, but we still know basketball. You know, essentially basketball is basketball and we have you know, a great mind for it. So why not you know, at somebody in who has a different perspective, who has different sees the game a little bit differently, because obviously basketball is basketball, but the men's game is different than the women's game. And so it it's great to see other teams investing in in women, you know, bringing them in in the front office, bringing them in on the coaching staff. It's been really great to see and I'm sure there's gonna be a lot more transition and future with that. When you were in fifth grade, you were playing against boys and you talked about how you were you had all these skills, but they would just play bulleyball against you. Right is does the equivalent of that still exist to some degree for women who were trying to break into different areas of traditionally male dominated fields. Um, I mean I could see how people could feel like that. Uh, you know, it's hard. I mean I'm the only female in a room full of men and we're talking about basketball, you know, so sometimes you know you kind of feel like tank. All right, Well, no, I know you've done your work. You know, you have to be confident in what what you've done, in the work that you've put in and just speak about that like you're again, we're all taking estimated guesses on the projection of how we think this guy is going to get into the future, right, you have to tell the future and so, but you've put the work in and that goes with anything. Whether I was playing basketball as a kid, or whether I was playing basketball Yukon or in the w n b A, I had to put the work in to be successful. And it's the same thing with this. I know we're talking figurative bullying here, but she lowers her shoulder and takes out our our analytics people down on the court, and she is not scared to bully them. Right back, I was going to ask you if she feels like one, is it like for you to be next to someone that played defense? The feat out is different. Ashley and I don't lose. We don't lose together. Seriously, who are you playing? Brad? I gotta throw Brad under the bus there. Austin, you interviewed Ashley, Um, what stood out to you when this woman walked into the room and you started to have a basketball conversation about this position? Yeah? Just just passion, I Q e Q right, these are these are things we look at. Um. It's a hard job to learn. I mean Ashley can talk about how it, at least for me, the first few years felt like you're drinking from a fire hose because there's there's so many players. It's a whole world, right, Like I'm at this point, I'm only learning the new players each year and updating small bits of the other players. When you first start, it's just i mean, the NBA, G League, Europe College, it's just thousands of players and we're having these meetings and there's just so many names. It's overwhelming to start. So we don't usually worried too much about bad aspects because that can be learned. It's not brain surgery. It's love for the game, intelligence, um and ability to work in a team, and general basketball, knowledge and feel, and those are the things that we liked about Ashley. In every other field connected to sports, there is you think of player. Players have talent and then there's hard work. Broadcasters have talent and then there's hard work all of the elements. To be a referee, you have to have some talent for it and whatever is there are there levels of talent in scouting? Are there scouts who can see things that others can't? It's looking at another field from afar you say, are there talented people? Because obviously the hard work is inherent, it's obvious. Are there levels of talent in what you do and having an eye for It's a big issue of contention. There's a lot of different opinions on that. Um, you know, you've got the people who aren't as good as if think that there are levels and that there I mean we all we all think we're better than we are. But but even that, I mean, there's there's so I don't know if we've we've determined that. Sean, I believe so, but I think, you know, I think there's different You talk about it as an art, which that connected with me because I have an overinflated sense of what I do is being important at it being an art and that's what made me think of it because there are people in my field, there's going to be You can't be successful in what I do if you're not putting in the work. But there is a difference, and that's what maybe wonder all the people you've been around in the game almost by definition some I think actually the people you've been around, coaches, got anybody in the front office, there must be people that see the game differently. Like a great piano player, you can just see the keys and play has to be there is and and if you come from coaching and going into the front office, like I think, you probably see the game a little bit differently than if you have haven't played, versus you know, going into the front office as well. So there's there's nuances I think that people inherently have about the game for themselves, and maybe that kind of gets a little bit exploited a little bit where you're just like okay, well or enhanced like I'm gonna These are the things that I like to focus on, and these are the things that I think can contribute to make a successful a successful NBA player. Um where but it I've I found that a lot of people, you know that I've encountered over the last couple of years, have been a lot of people kind of think similarly about a guy. There may be a couple of things here and there where you're just like, no, I don't believe that about this person. But for the most part, I think, especially the top guys, people people know. But there's quite a lot that we do that maybe um isn't as as obvious to two people outside. We have salary cap we have scouting in person, we have scouting on film, we have gathering information from you know, networking, various sources. We have you know, uh, anticipating how that person does not in a vacuum, but how they fit with other teams. Right. We have managing people, we have communicating with agents. There's a lot of skills and it it'd be crazy to think that there weren't strengths and weaknesses within every front office person on those various levels. And I've left out a few. Um So some people are better at certain aspects of that, just like players can be better at shooting, passing, dribbling, defense, whatever. So it's it's all, it's all you know important to find the right team um together as much as any one person's strengths and weaknesses, it's it's got to fit. We've got to have the right the right recipe. And that's a big an interesting part of this is that you're not just looking at basketball players. You're looking at basketball people. And there's a lot that goes into that that you're talking about talking to these sources who can give you information about who are these people really on a day to day basis. This is a really interesting thing that I want to I want to post to both of you, is that I've I've done some scouting stuff for our website over the years. I coached football when I was in college, and I found that when I was in it like that on a day to day basis of looking at hours of film or coaching, that it was hard to turn that off. And then I found myself walking around always kind of assessing everyone around me kind of in that same way. Is it hard for you to turn off like that scouting vision of of constantly assessing things and people and everything that's going on around you. A little bit, We make jokes all the time about, you know, sitting in an airport and go, oh, that guy looks just like that's what I was talking about. He's plus two weeks span, and for sure he's going to sabarrow. He's gonna go right and grant. Yeah, we make jokes like that, but certainly that at the most stressful times of any job, it's hard to turn the brain off, you know, sitting at dinner, like all, I need to focus on my family, not you know, what can I get for a second round pick that? You know, So these are these are always challenges. Have you found that for sure? For sure? I mean I don't don't. I'm not married or anything, so I never turn it off. So it's always like when I'm with my friends or I'm hanging out or something like that, I have to like be like, Okay, I'm not going to talk about basketball. You know, I'm not going to talk about you know, sports in general. You know, I'm really gonna just sit here and just try to be present and be in the moment, and if it comes up, then I'll be I'll dive in and make go on the tangent. But I try not to. I try to leave basketball here. Can you watch a game as a fan anymore? That's just it ruins your fandom. Really, yeah, it does. I'm so spoiled out. I think of, you know, dupe North Carolina game. My friends are like, that's so awesome. I just think about the traffic and the hassled up park. I'd rather see Duke against You and see Charlotte. You know, it's way easier in and out, you know, so that you get spoiled that stuff. This is a perfect segue though, because I want to ask about a movie that came out within the last year, So Hustled and you know everywhere had Stevens. Yeah, Brad's got the Beautiful. He's gonna get us. He's gonna get a six dollar check for the next tie done that. I said, like Maxwell talks about his all the time. I was in my Dad's Got One from Space Jam. He gets like five bucks. I gotta love it. But yeah, so that that movie and that Adam Sandler's role in that movie is kind of like he couldn't turn it off and he just happened to find this diamond in the rough that wound up becoming this star player who walked around this facility. We had the way, I don't know how we let the star player we had during the filming of that, which was interesting. That's right, that's right, during the filming we had that little we had Latcho. But um, the I would say that inaccuracies of that is everyone knows all the players now, as Sean alluded to with with video and you follow the right people on Twitter, you'll know about everyone. So our job is not beating the bushes finding some guy in a playground in Spain like the movie. It's really just choosing between the list that everyone has. Now. It's not going to be the same as the ones you find online, but most teams are going to have right that. Janice was probably the most undiscovered because he had citizenship issues that prevented him from playing on the on the junior national teams and stuff all growing up. But usually the the if you're not in the top twelve eighteen year olds in Spain or in Lithuania or something, you're you're probably not on NBA radar, right that the depth is not so great that you're not gonna, you know, be on those teams. So much has that changed, though, Like since you've been in this landscape and really since your dad got here back in the early two thousands, because at that time there wasn't all this film available literally everyone and anyone. It's changed a lot. I mean, we were we were asking, we were calling teams, you know, begging them to fed x DVDs across the country. You're right, You're right, you know. And now I can literally pull up any game in the world on my laptop. So it has changed quite a bit. But but that has made the world smaller. It is easier. It's harder to find diamonds in the rough and we're remote places, um, but the late night fast food in the hotel room is accurate that way too often. How much has the G League changed? Maybe a diamond in the rough becoming more of a diamond that you would not have become one without it, you know, I would say that even more than the or, or even more than the expanding is the economic crisis. The European basketball hasn't recovered since two thousand and eight, two thousand nine, Spain grease Italy. The salaries for players over there has greatly reduced, and that has pushed a lot more players to the G League. They still could make a little more money in Europe often, but the chance that to call up. The gap isn't so big. The guaranteed money that turned down isn't so big. So that, as much as anything, has pushed the G League deeper and deeper, and then two way contracts made it even more and and so that that has made um a little easier sometimes scouting. There's more players that are around the US that that we can go see. We're bringing on Venice Macavicious next on the podcast right after this. Correct his name four times? He almost got He didn't do it, He didn't do it. Can you tell me correctly how to say the last name? Oh? No, I just call him? Okay, just be sure. You're the man who discovered him, right, you're the one who made the connection with him. What do we need to know about Bettas for our listeners who are about to hear our conversation with him, benness was um very unique. I met him at a junior tournament in rock Love, Poland, Um wherever that is, and yeah, it's a great place. Good luck, good luck Siri getting you there, Siri? Where is it? I don't know? Met him there, um and then we exchanged info and then I ended up spending some time with him at the old Treviso Eurocamp which no longer exists, and just picked his brain and got to know him. He was doing some advanced scouting, some coaching and some personnel scouting for Chessco Moscow at the time, and uh, you know, found out he was a coach's son who grew up playing and get a bunch of injuries, which he claims her his career. I don't think he was very good. You can't tell him that. But but have you studied the film? Yeah, no, he's he he was pretty good. I just like messing with him. Um, but Bennie is the most detailed guy. He He's the only guy who I have to beg to a vacation and stop watching under sixteen B euro Championship, like just you know, he wants to find that he and he worked so hard and we're very grateful to have him. We we're looking forward to that. We talk this is. This is I was done to know from Ashley because we all have our own perspective that we bring in and we talked about it from a personal standpoint, from a player standpoint. I worked with I've worked with Cedric Maxwell now for twenty one years and he was a player. When he played for the Celtics, he had to sublimate his game. Essentially, he was playing with Larry Bird and he was playing with Robert Parrish and he became that fourth guy. Does the career path you had. You could have gone to Penn State and scored twenty points a game, but up, but you went to Yukon and played with a bunch of great players and you had to change your game. You developed a reputation as a defensive player even though you could score, because that was what you needed to be. Does that perspective, having come through that as a player, does it make it easier for you to see the players that are doing that same thing? Like it definitely comes in handy because sometimes you know, I also look at, hey, this kid wouldn't have made it this bar if they didn't have some that cous Absolutely, they didn't have any ship in their game, you know. And I always felt like, you know, me as a player, where you know, I knew I could score, I knew I could do all those things. I still had over a thousand points at Ukon, But that always gets overlooked like, oh, she she can't shoot, she can't do this, She can't do that, And I'm like, well, I can't. I just didn't. I can, you know, But it was within our best insurance, you know, of the team. Literally, we're coming in after winning a national championship. I'm a freshman. Diana is also a freshman. Um, grazi. For those who are listening and don't know she's or whatever, that's one and so you're so you're coming and you're just like, you know. One of the questions Gino asked me when I was being recruited was like, are you concerned about playing time? And I was like, no, I'm not concerned about playing time because I know that I'm gonna do what you ask I'm gonna work really hard, and you're gonna have to play me. You're not gonna have a choice about to play me. And so, um, you know, I look at this as you know, very similarly, like you know, I'm learning something new pretty much every day. I'm looking at guys every day, and I know that like guys could still have a long career, you know, if they're doing the intangibles on the court, which is what I had to do in the court to play. You relate to players with no speed same way that we joke all the time that you know most of us played at some level. Um not most of us weren't as goes actually, but um half the time it's players like to scout players opposite of them, and some like the players just like them, and I you, I'm usually I like the way more athletic guys that he really does like the Wren. He was the three that he was lacking the D. It wasn't three Dale, he was a three. He was playing d yesterday though he was getting. That leads to the victory for you to we actually were all oppstitute. That was the first time for for us it was a little different. Can you fall in over the player and it all the ant he could be studying everything you have studied. You studied hours of film, you studied analytics, everything says I don't know, I don't know, but you just have that. Do you have to get away from that? Is not why you need a room full of people to sometimes, you know, pull somebody back to reality. Absolutely, we we all have guys that we we get and we encouraged not to have. That's my guy, don't use that. It's not your guy. He's a guy. That is available to everyone, and you can't get too locked in because you can overpay. You know, you've gotta properly rate all these things. So it's it's something we fight against, um, but it happens, and you do. We have analytics group that's amazing that is check and balances with everything we do, and we have a big group of people with great opinions that we all fight and talk about these players and and uh. But every year, Sean, there are guys that you just you know, let's just say, out of sixty in the draft, there's maybe four or five that you really like and you really feel like you have and and in some years there's like and I don't really have a great feel for this guy could go anyway and I don't. I don't know, and it's hard to just it just kind of happens differently every year. I gotta say from those few years that we were doing the Draft Propile series when I was scouting some some players for for the website, I still track them and I'm still like, that's my guy, that's human needing, Like it's one if he went to six and I thought he should have gone three, I'm still like, let I'm voting or and and I'm rooting for that player for the rest of his career. I can't like let go of it. And we all have that tendency. But when you have to quantify and okay, well so what does that mean? You want to trade two seconds to move up to get him? You want to trade to first, you want to trade and all star? Like a what point is that your guy? Right? And that usually brings people down to earth. It really does. Like last year, I was like, they were like, would you do that? I was like, no, absolutely not. And that's the life of scouting in basketball operations. That's why it takes the fun out of fandom. Yeah, it's why you can't watch the games as a fan because it's all you have to try to fight your emotions and get more analytical on it. It's and it's a difficult process, but you two have to navigate it every single day, as does Benness. Benness is going to come on next, but thank you both for coming on. We appreciate the time. I know everyone's really going to enjoy this conversation. Thanks for having us so, bettest Man, thank you for coming on first and foremost from across the world. I never know where the hell you are in the world. Where are you right now? It looks like you're at home, But tell all the listeners where his home base for you? They is for having you first of all, thanks for the invite. Um right now, I Rememberlin, Germany, but a lot of times I don't know where I'm at myself. So what I wake up in so many different cities a lot of times, and sometimes I also visit family of friends of Lithuania. But as you know, and I think there's a lot of scouts experienced or also some advanced scouts, I'm sure have a lot of stories to tell when they wake up in hotel rooms that they don't know where they're at. I've been there, I mean, just having on with the team during the regular season. That happens all the time where I'm like, I go to the room number of the prior hotel that I was at, and then I'm like, that's that was the last city I was in. Classic, Yeah, no, that's that. I have the same problem. It's just that when I wake up in the middle of the night, I have to go to the bathroom, and I just remember the bathroom has to be here, and it's not here for some reason. And and then I remember, okay, that was two days ago. You're walking into a wall instead of the bathroom. Yeah, because you have your eyes closed and everything ether the disaster sometimes. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure everybody in this business has experienced something like that, now, no question about it. Um. So, I think from my research says that you started with the Celtics back in two thousand and fourteen, is that right? Yes? And and that happened after you and Austin just happened to run into each other at some point when both of you were in the same city. Right, tell me about that story and how you and Austin Ange wind up connecting and how it kind of blossomed into you being the international scout for the Boston Celtics. Yeah. So that's That's a classic sliding door moment. And absolutely always I always look back on that moment and I think how my life would have turned out if I wouldn't have set and that small gym at that same moment in Poland at the under eighteens tournament at the most random time, because I was working for European Clops at SETHCA Moscow, and I just decided without without looking forward, to sign anybody young that depop because Tesca doesn't sign any young playerst I just wanted to go scout for myself. So I went there basically just to have experience in scouting young guys. So it was the most random situation. I went there, I sat down and I saw Austin at that time, I didn't know him three rows down standing up watching the game or watching as it was a break. He came up to me and he just shook my ad, introduced himself and that was my connection, and that was my first NBA connection basically, and we stayed in touch, and that was two thousand eleven, if I'm not mistaken, And so we stayed in touch with at that time. And then three years later there was an offer that I couldn't refuse basically, and there was some changes in Moscow happening during those times, and I got to honor to work with also coaching Messina, who's who's a well known coach in the NBA and Europe. And then after there was another turnover, Austin made an offer and and that was that was the start of it. I believe that was Marcus Smart's draft here. Okay, so that I wasn't working that draft, but I was already in the room. I was already around because I signed it as summer before. When the season ended, I joined the club right away. And that was for me something that where the whole the whole world changed for me basically, and since then, I mean probably millions of flight miles that you've traveled, like all over the world. And I see you occasionally over here in the US. I see you at some games when you're kind of popping around and doing some scouting over here in the US, but I know that you're you are bumping around to basically in touching feet in every country around the world. Um, what's the craziest travel story that's happened to you during all of those travel miles that you've logged. So there's no night tonight, day to day, you just humping hopping around from playing to the taxi to uber to the hotel and then back and forth. Last year, Google Maps for just just to get back on the mileage part. Google Maps gives you a report of every year or sometimes every month, depending if you let him track you or not. I'll let him track me, so I don't I don't know if there's good or bad, but I just just just just because it's it's it's of interest. So I traveled last year, last count year, four and a half times around the world, and yeah, I did sleep, but there was also some some personal trips involved. Their obviously is not all Celtics. But that just paints a picture of how much I'm on the road. How many it was over two think it was something like that. Yeah, it was a lot. It was a lot out of it though, like that you're able to get Yeah, I am a little bit. I am health conscious, so it's not like i'm i'm I'm really just just doing the mind losses. So I try not to schedule early morning flights where you have to wake up. You know, we'll go to sleep late, wake up early, and then fly again. And sometimes you can't avoid it, so you just go there on two hours three hours of sleep to an airport that's you know, two hours or an hour outside of the city because of the longer distances in some cities. But I don't have I don't have any crazy stories from from traveling because it's just it's just a blur. A lot of times but I have stories of experiences in arenas that you can't really explain if you're not there personally, and well, I'm gonna need you to try to explain one right now. Yeah. I would urge everyone to go see any of the derbys in either Serbia Partisan against Red Star, either home game is fine Olimpiacos against Panethonikos and Athens Greece. And I was there at Panethonikos Olimpiago. Spans would probably hate me now because I would say at paneth Nikos is the defense are closer to the court, so you feel it a lot more and you see burning burning just whatever, you know, fireworks in the crowd and Jim Jim is exploding. Your ears are ringing. Another good derby is in Istanbul where your center Botcher place against Galatazza Soccer. Those are soccer clubs and Galataza, right for example, is not in EuroLeague, so they played in the domestically and that's the biggest derby because there's soccer soccer enemies. So those experience, I would really urge everybody, all the lifers out there, to go out and seek out and watch. I personally was involved in one, but I was still working for Tesca when we played in Turkey at Bishah and it was an early game. The game was going towards the end. We already won the game. It was already you know, eight point game or whatever. One of our players, I'm not going to call him out. One of our players decides decides to done the ball with you know, two three seconds left, and everybody is just grabbing their head asad, why are you doing this? And as soon as he done the ball, the crowd just start bulling, just start throwing coins. One of our one of our doctors, got slashed when a coin and his leg was bleeding andating from a coin. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was fire fire wighters. So we had to all retreat back to our bench with the with the roofs above the benches where they have just protections, and we you hear the coins, everything just flying into the into the into the plastic roofs. So we had to just go through that little um how you call it, just just just that little experience was something special. It was. It was. It was not pleasant, but you know when you walk out through the tunnel out to the locker rooms, you just cover your head and make sure you don't get anything hire at your head or eyes or something like that. So it's it's scary and and afterwards it's fun to talk about, but it's not really not really a pleasant experience when you're in it. That kind of thing is like, I don't want to say normal, but it can happen over there because the fan bases are just so rabid, right and and because of the history, like you talked about with some of the soccer rivalries. Um, it's it's not normal, but like it's it's not like that never happens. If that happened over here, it would be like once in a couple of decades probably like that that I can't even imagine that. Can you imagine that happening in an NBA arena? Oh my god? No? What you know? The the the Detroit Detroit malice in the ballace and that was that was something that happened that that will probably never happen again. But if you get fans the wolf with the with the that's when fans run out on the on the arena, it's never good and you probably will not see the the NBA ever again. Hopefully we will not see it again. I don't think it's happening ever again in in Europe. In Europe, there the fans are so invested emotionally, and especially in Greece, don't They don't when they ask the fans, you know who you They don't ask you who you're rooting for. They ask you the question literally translated is who who you are? Who are you? You know that this? So it's basically they're asking for your identity. Are you panton Nikos? Are you Olympiakos? So it's it's an indirect question of who you internally represented, feel like, you know, it's it's a much more identity thing that it is in the US. When you've been traveling, what's the longest amount of time that you've been stuck in one place because a flight cancelations and or something going on with governments, Because you're navigating that stuff wherever you go, right, So what is what is a story or or maybe the longest amount of time that you've been kind of stuck somewhere and not been able to get to your next destination. Yeah, so I got two stories to that really quick to One story was in Turkey, the Turkish Cup that was about six years ago maybe and there was a huge snowstorm in Gaziantep that said the Syrian border is it's more like a south southern south Turkey, and we it was a big snowstorm that they're not used to. First of all, we're driving on the wrong side of the road because the other side of the road was full of snow. That didn't clear it up. And we did no, we're driving on the other side of the road until we realized there was a car coming from the other side that side you're supposed to be on. Yes, yes, And the flights got delayed at the airport forever and I couldn't make my connection in East Tubul, so I just got arrived the next morning in France and I went straight to the game, basically to the to the French Cup. And that was that was straining because you barely slept, you were you were just all stuck in the airport and you had to lay over and waiting forever. And it was it was, it was. It was pretty tough. Yeah, But in in general, the airports are something that I you know, it's people other people drive was Ubers to work or in Europe is more prevalent to maybe drive with the bus. For me, it's it's a it's a it's a flight. It's like I'm going to to work. And the one thing that I always will remember that drives me nuts. Until this day, I had a clean record of never missing a flight. I had a clean record. I could sleep, I was I was always very at peace with myself until this one e in Barcelona where I was the boarding pass on my on my phone usually shows when you're boarding. So I was taking my time because I saw the boarding time and I didn't. I was not cognizant of what was going on on the screen. I was just looking at my boarding past digital boarding pass and that actually had the flight time and not the boarding time. So I get to the gate and they said the gene is close. You can't get on. That said that everything was empty, and I was. I was sweating. I was sweating. That was my That was my I don't I look back at it as like my my my biggest uh, I don't know, mistake in terms of travel. You know, it was something that will haunt me forever. Probably my clean record is broken. Well, I don't have a clean record either. I don't know if you've heard this to the grape Vine. But I I too almost missed the flight one time overseas with the team. I'm not going to go into details here, but this was in Madrid. Um, let's just say I got to the plane when it was about to take off and everyone else was already on that. We'll save this one for another day. Our producer is laughing right now because he knows exactly what I'm talking about. But yeah, I almost Which is what happened the night before. Well not what you might think. Uh, there was there was an issue with my alarm, let's put it that way. Uh, And and the phone in the room was unplugged, so no one could call me to get me up. But I made it home safely. Thank god I made it back. Um, when you're putting together your plan for traveling to all these different countries and trying to figure out who to go see when you go see them, how do you make those decisions? Because there's it's not like in the US, where there's a there's only a certain amount of collegiate teams, right, there's only a certain amount of NBA teams. There's only so many kids you're gonna go look at. You're trying to find that diamond in the rough, and and that player could be anywhere outside of the United States, So how do you figure out and put together out of that plan of where you're gonna go and when you're gonna go there. So a lot of times you're already there's not many secrets these days of who is who and who is aware because it's just so available on Twitter, on on any kind of websites that you that you might search for, but you just try to decide if it's worth traveling or not. And the pandemic showed us that it's not always necessary to travel to see eighty prospects, you know, just to chalk him off the list. So you do a lot of film work, you talk to people in those countries you want. You definitely want to see the main ones that are already known, but some of the guys that are borderlined that you feel like that you haven't seen before, you don't know as well. You want to make sure that you're internally at peace with yourself knowing that player and feeling that did you you understand who he is? You have to gather that information, so intel gathering becomes integral part of this job. And It's not only of talking to people about background information. It's or or about you know, what the kid is really how what do people think about him in Spain for example, or brand It's also that you really have to know what this kid has made up of. How does he handle adversity, how does he go through the season, what's the context of that team? Why is he playing a lot? Why is he not playing that much? And what what is this role some some teams trying to promote this player for no reason is not that good, But he's playing a whole bunch of minutes, and you're trying to understand, Okay, that's you know, they're trying to push, they're trying to get the buy out, So you're trying to put everything into into perspective and and understand the context of it. But that's where I think the network that I've gathered over the last nine years now it's probably the biggest advantage that I've I've had over the last years, because you know, from year to year it's the network network effect, and instead of circle of trust, it becomes a triangle of trust. So I talked, you don't have to have hundreds of contexts, you just have to have the right ones in the right places. And then in each country one or two contexts that you trust hundred percent and they trust you because I find myself a lot of times, you know, it's it's under under value that I find myself working for them a lot to help them with information about G League players, forward GI League players, former NBA players, because at some point they will help us, you know. So it's it's a it's a really very subtle arts that I would call it. That you you gather information by create creating friendships, business friendships, and they become friendships because you start trusting each other on a whole different level. And then when this one person that trusts introduced you to another person that can help you, that make that that person doesn't know the information that you need, he introduces to to a third person, it becomes a triangle of trust. And to me, that happened so many times. And now just a network effect. Everything is basically one phone call away, whether it's China, Australia or whatever you want to go, it's it's at at my WhatsApp is my best friend basically that's where we communicate any said Bennis, and I hit each other up. It's unless we run into each other in person, it's it's over what's at um those relationships? I actually wanted to ask you about that and you beat me to it. But how do you develop those Because in my world with the people who are working, you know, in front of the camera and reporting and whatnot. You think of the Wojes of the world, the Shamsas of the world, like all these people who have very distinct relationships, um where they can get information that they need to be able to do their job. I'm just curious from your side on on gaining information about players and whatnot. How do you develop these relationships over the course of time, um, so that you do trust each other both ways and kind of know that you're going to help each other out. What what? What goes into that process? Well, luckily I like coffee and it coffee is a big thing over here. So called me a coffee salvant if you want, But it's it's a it's a very big thing. Would you go for coffee meetings or dinners or lunches or whatever. It's casual most of the time, but that's where you build their friendships and their relationships. You develop really you. You find out I open up. I'm an open person generally, you know, I I don't mind open about myself, about my past, about my feelings, and people appreciate it because they see your vulnerability. I'm not afraid to be vulnerable, and then they are not either. So you create, you create a ground for trust on the personal level, and over time you start also trusting them with the information about players that you know that only they may have that information. You know they don't want to get out there, so they protected, and you protect the sources. You don't tell other people where you heard it from. You know, you share the pieces that you feel that are necessary, and I feel over over the over time, there's the there's a spectrum of people I call it that I get to know in different cultures, in different in different countries, that I figure out of how to reach and how to adapt easily to different people. You know this, it's I I call it a spectrum of people. The more I've got to know, the easier it is to connect with them. And over time, it's just it just takes off by itself. Where do I fall on that spectrum of people? Vennice right in the middle, Baby, is that a good thing or a bad thing. It's a good thing and everybody, everybody, that's what body call it. Spectrum. It's a rainbow, everybody shining some different colors. And you're setting very bright. Oh, I'll take that. I appreciate that. Hey, you mentioned the coffee thing. Uh. And I was actually talking to our our chief technology officer, Jay Wessel last night at the Arena and he told me an interesting fact about you is that you find the best coffee shop in every city that you go to. Is that correct? Yes, sir, I haven't you need to run down of your favorite coffee shops in the world, and then you've got to have a favorite one in Boston, right, Yeah, there's there's one in close to the TV Garden actually cup of Coffee. I think it was called Couping in the North End. There's yeah, it's right right right close, right close to the arena. Um. So that's that's a good one. You know. You you called me at a spot because I have I have them saved them like in my Google Maps app. So I and when I go to Barcelona, for example, I I already know I get I get a hotel that's in between the cafe and the arena, so I really know I can make that walk coffee. Those are the two priorities for you. Yes, yes, and I thig I visit begs quite frequently, so I already have the cafes. For example, Back in Black is one good one in Paris that I go to a lot of times. I go back and I'm I dressed. I'm dressed in black coincidentally, but it's h There's good cafes in every city. You just have to be cognizant of how to search for them. And there's different apps for my favorite app, for example, this European Coffee Trip, and they have They used to have a website and now they build an app, so if you are in Europe, just just download that one. Or a Thing Being Beings Finder, I think is another one that's that's pretty happy. But I I've made a hobby out of it, and I know where how to search them and I know where where they are. Have you thought about starting a travel agency at any point in your life because you know everything about every country? I mean right now that are probably like man, I wish I could just talk to him, you know, if I go on a trip to Europe, to wherever to London. I can ask bettis where's the best coffee? Yes, absolutely, you can, absolutely can. I've I've I've made already for friends, some like the Berlin tour Guide, the Paris tour Guide that they told me they go into Paris and I just put some put some places, restaurants, bars, uh, cafes, everything in one place to side maiden sides. So yeah, it's for me. I haven't thought about being a tour guide or or a travel agency, but I thought about being a hotel tester when I retired. Just just just just go go around and be a secret agent for for on the motel agency that's trying to just investigate how the hotels are working. So I I think I have a good, good nose for that. Yeah, you've got a future in vlogging as well. You can give us all all the travel if you could be an influencer on social media. I can't wait for that part of your career. Why not? Why not? I'm I'm a hyperactive dude, so I would probably never stop. Which is interesting because Danny Age when he was here, and also Austin, they've both like Austin called you tireless, and I think. Danny said, uh, it's impossible to tire you out. So both of them have basically said that you just never get tired. How do you go through all of these day to day workings in your traveling and flying and waking up at different hours and going to watch games late at night, watching the Celtics at odd hours of the day. How do you do this and never get tired? How is that even possible? Yeah, no coffee, coffee is you know, there's there's a baseline that I'm trying to keep. I'm trying not to drink coffee after two or three o'clock just because the caffeine has a half life of six hours. So by the time I go to sleep, I'm trying to have the cafine down to minute so I get quality of sleep. I'm really, like I said, cognizant of my health. So I tried to fast a lot of times, not to eat too many meals during the day, not to stack too much. I eat a lot of dark chocolate to keep my energy up. And I'm trying not to have high glucos, not to have high high glacemic index foods. So I try to stay neutral, NS try to stead just just to have my energy consistent. So I'm just cognizant of that. But I'm not. I'm not a freak. I used to be very, very extreme, so I kind of now going towards the middle and trying to enjoy life at the same time. But also, you know, working out walking a lot, just to make sure that I'm in shape and and just that my brain is working the right way. So I'm not. I don't watch the Celtics games at three o'clock in the morning two o'clock in the morning. I wake up every morning earlier than I usually work wake up, and I watched the games without knowing the result. So that's that's usually how to watch the Celtics games. That gives me just a start. Maybe I'm just you know, three or four hours delayed of knowing the result, but at least I've got my eight hours to sleep. For example, You've had a lot of good film to watch this year from the Celtics, that's for sure. Yeah, we're running out of time here, but I got a couple of more things that I want to talk to you about. Number one is the movie Hustle that came out in the last year on Netflix. I know you had to have watched it. I watched it. Probably most of our listeners have watched it. How embellished is that movie about, like what the real scenarios are overseas with with going and trying to find talent. So I got so many messages about that movie. I've got so many for so many friends that I had was playing you in that movie, right, Yeah, But but I have to say I have to say that, first of all, my my dream is to be in a movie too. At some point. That's I just gonna throw it out there. That's that's one of my my lifetime achievement goals. But the movie is a little bit of a mix of what it is to be like to be an agent and a scout, because normally you can't mentor a prospect, you can't be that close to a prospect you have you're observing him. You're you're working for somebody that you're not able, not allowed to represent, and he was representing him in in in certain ways. So that's so there's a little bit of a tweak. But I like the fact that he was What made it close to my story is that he was also an assistant coach to go to Scout that was an assistant coach again, And that's where people that were texting me they reminded them of me because I was shifting. I'm shifting back and forth between those roles with the national team and the Celtics. So there's a little bit of both in there. And but the story itself is not necessarily all about Scout. What bettest if you wind up finding us that diamond in the rough that winds up becoming the best player ever in the n b A, something tells me that you will get that movie about yourself and maybe be able to play yourself in the movie. I prefer not to play myself. I prefer to be a crazy Jim Carrey impersonator or something like that, who would play you. Then I don't. I don't. I don't need a story. My story is already just legendary. It doesn't it doesn't, it doesn't need to be emphasized. The people people know. I want to shoot a movie where I'm a Gym Carrey type of character, and I just can't act a little bit crazy here and there. Fair enough? All right, Um, last topic that I want to hit you on is your communication back here with the Basketball Operations Group, And obviously that's switched over in the last couple of years. It had been run by Danny Ainge. Now it's being run by Brad Stevens. And to me, the fact that you're still here is a testament to the work that you provide to the team that we were able to kind of switch regimes in in the brains that are running this whole thing. Uh, and both of them wanted you to be an integral part of it. But what is your So congratulations on that, by the way, just the work that you provided an organization and for them to value as much as they do. Um, But what is the communication like on a daily, a weekly, a monthly basis with Brad Stevens, Mike Zern, Austin Age, all of these people back in the States, UM, who you're providing a lot of the information you're collecting, you're providing it to them, right. So that's it's been. It's been different in a sense where I don't want to overflow information to people who where it's not necessary to have it right now, it's not an urgent business, you know. So it's something that I'm in constant contact with. Austin that's my that's my primary contact that I communicate with before I go to trips or when I go to trips. I said, I send out information to the whole group that I gather when I watch games, when I watched scouts, when I scout games, or when I gather intel. But like Brad doesn't need to hear the day to day, he needs to hear the essentials, you know. So I'm trying to filter it out, just as I use to filter out as an assistant coach for the head coach, information that's necessary to know for him without overflowing and overloading him with information. Because Brad has a whole deal with a whole bunch of other things. So if there's anything that's urgent or that's interesting for him to watch to take a look at, or you know, Beg's had a great game or Yamadar had a good game, just just those little things I think are necessary for him to know. But everything else, it's it just goes with the flow. And whenever the you know, approaching to the draft, that's when that's when things are you know that when you kind of have to come ready to play. You just mentioned them. That was the last thing I wanted to talk to you about. We got Yam, We've got Johan over in your What are those guys looking at um right now and how's their seasons going and what do we think that those guys might be able to provide in the years to come to the Celtics organization. So Yam Yam is playing in partisan with the the Serbian team that I mentioned earlier, and he's playing in the U League. He's he's got a really important defensive role. He's always pressured in the ball, is always providing team with energy, and the team has been you know, up and down they played. They have one of the best coaches, most most accomplished coaches in Europe, coach Radovitch. So he's in really good hands to become the best possible player he can become going forward. And I I expect him to just keep growing, keep getting better, keep getting strong, and he's gonna he's gonna get there eventually. Begs is currently he had a sprain ankle, which was unfortunate, but we all had those. It was nothing, nothing that was really of He's already close to returning. He was already traveled with the team and and he's getting ready to get back. He's made it jump forward with his confidence and on defense on how much how much energy provides on the passing lanes. He's just playing with so much more authority than he did before. And his role changed with the new coach because now they're having Will Weaver, American coach. Used to be a system coach with the Rockets, and he's preparing him to what kind of roles he would have in the NBA. You know, just I'm in off the bench, come in sometimes just the starting as well, but coming coming with the energy on defense and making place in transitional office whenever the opportunities arrived. That's Words at his best. So that's I enjoy watching both those kids play and I watched them improve over the last couple of years. Yeah, juha. I was excited to see John when he came over here and played in Summer League. I cannot believe how much of a man he looks like at his age. He is a big body, defensive minded guy. I'll be looking forward to seeing uh if and when he makes it over here to play for the team. And same thing with Yam. He he had some really good moments when he came over in summer league, and those guys are growing and I know you had a pretty big role and those guys landing here. So we're looking forward to seeing if those guys can come over here and provided the team. Before we let you go, I know you got a podcast that you run on your own, So give yourself a bug Let let everyone know what's the podcast name? Where can they find it? Shameless plug over here, but come on, that's it's just basically not the bettest podcast, and it's it's a podcast where we don't talk about the day to day. I wanted to be evergreen, you know, evergreen I I I preferred. I preferred for it for it to last forever. And it's more of a Tim Ferry's style podcasts where I try to talk to coaches, assistant coaches, commentators, different different different different professions in the business and talk about the nuances behind the scenes of how they prepare themselves, what kind of just the technicalities of it. And communication is a big topic, how to communicate with players properly or how the relationship building goes. And I'm slowly going into other sports as well. So I had a rugby, former rugby player on I had a boxer on, so I'm trying to also explore how their minds work, how the preparation processes, how they deal with adversity and things like that, approaching retirement for players, for example, I think it's a big thing of the transition process from player to a new identity basically. So I talk about all those little things that I think are under discussed and under under the radar, and I'm trying to bring it up to the top and hopefully people enjoyed. I know I've enjoyed it. I recommend everyone out there to give it a listen. Like, you're one of the most interesting people who works for the Celtics, your role, your communication, the way you see things, um and being able to listen to you kind of dive into that stuff on your podcast is just awesome. So congrats on that. Thank you for coming on. I know everyone's gonna enjoy this conversation. And when when will I be seeing you back in Boston? When's the next time I'll be back in March, but the team will not be in town, so I don't know if i'll see you. All right, Well, let's meet up for maybe a cup of coffee your favorite spot not maybe not, it's on me. It's on me, fetness. Thanks for coming on and uh looks forward to seeing you in March. Thanks for having me, Thanks thanks again, see you soon.